to a member of another Congregation as Mr. Hooker ingenuously acknowledges Surv. Part. 2. admission and ejection of members should only be into and from a particular Congregation A child should be Baptized into a particular Congregation only and not into the Universall Church And one Excommunicated cast out only of a particular Congregation because the power extends no further Way is made to let in all errours and heresies and as many Religions as there are particular Congregations and none can hinder it in an Ecclesiastick way and many more absurdities should follow as Learned and Godly men have judiciously observed Contrair to those Assertions is my second Part imployed for vindication of the true way of Government which Christ has instituted in his Word and in great mercy set up in this Church to wit by his Ministers and Officers not Lording over the people of God in a Papall or Prelaticall way as this Author either mistakes or calumniats but Ministerially under Christ the only Lord of his Church Ruling them according to the Rule of his Word in a way of rationall obedience And that in a way of communion and association of Churches and subordination of lesser associations unto greater and larger as the Lord grants by his providence conveniency On this I have not insisted so largly as the matter it self might afforded occasion of discourse Because it has been by learned and reverend men already so fully debated the proofs of the truth so clearly made out and all contrary Objections so abundantly discussed and satisfied that I had little or nothing to adde Yet I trust I have through the Lords help in some measure discovered the insufficiency and invalidity of what is brought by this Author who I wonder much should have adventured to present the world with such a discourse upon the mater after so learned labours of others as are extant upon the same I have also in two Appendices taken into consideration what is said upon these same points by some in Aberdene lately turned aside from the truth in a Letter of theirs directed to some Godly men in the South May 1652. The reasons moving me hereto were 1. Because of their correspondence with Mr. Lockiers Peece and it seemeth they have been in a manner his proselytes Then having some time had more particular and intimat acquaintance with some of them it would be to me mater of much rejoicing in the Lord if I could be instrumentall to discover to them the we knesse of the grounds whereupon they have fallen from their stedfastnesse that so if possible which I wish from my heart they might be moved to remember whence they have fallen to repent and to do their first works And finally tâ—… what ever should be the effect as to them the irrelevancy 〈◊〉 the causes of their departure being laid open others might see no cause why any should be shaken with their fall And blessed be God there are not yet many in this Land that have followed them in this What may be afterward the Lord who sees the thoughts of mens hearts afar off knoweth Times indeed are sifting And the ignorance of many the base earthly time serving minds of others unadvised principles in some who may be sees not yet the far end of their consequences may prove an advantage to seducements produce more defection from the profession of the truth if temptations continue then as yet we have seen But let temptations and trialls be what they will the Cause of Christ even that part of it which I stand for here the order Government of this Church which he has appointed in his Word and thereby made known to this Church shal stand firm It has been a cup of trembling to all that have hitherto laid siege against it and a burdensome stone to all that have at any time burdened themselves wâ—…h it to cut them in pieces it will yet prove so to all who will adventure to do the like And turn their back upon it who will Christ will not want his witnesses to bear witness unto it Even if need be by not loving their lives unto the death And O but that man might count himself highly favoured of God whom he should honour with that dignity as that eminent servant of Jesus Christ Mr. Welsch spoke in relation to himself of suffering for some branches of the same cause wâ—…ged in his time But having detained your Lordship too 〈◊〉 I present this testimony I have given to it according to my weak measure to you commending it not only to your favourable acceptance but also to your judicious censure and your self unto the Grace of God who has called you unto the uâ—…ained love of the truth and is able to preserve you therein â—…lameable unto the end I am Your Lordsâ—… most humble Servant in the Lord James Wood. AN ADVERTISEMENT TO THE READER ALbeit it hath pleased Mr. Lockier to prefixe unto his Book two Epistles of his own and a third of three of his friends containing many sharp invectives against this Church and strange Commentaries upon the Lords dispensations toward us as striking against our Church constitution and Government Yet I shall not detain the Reader with scanning of the same being confident that upon the clearing and vindicating of the truth in the following Treatise these discourses will be found by the Godly and Judicious to be not only bitter against Brethren in affliction proving them to be Physitians of no value but injurious to God and his Truth in ascribing our calamities to our adhering thereto and judging of the truth of our Religion by the Lords outward dispensations toward us An Index of the Sections PART I. Concerning the Mater of the Visible Kirk SECT I. MR. Lockier his Analysis and explication of the Text Act. 15. 3. for laying a ground to his Doctrine concerning the Mater of the Visible Kirk considered p. 1. SECT II. His Doctrine pondered and the state of the controversie between us and the Independent Brethren touching the necessary qualification of Members of the Visible Kirk cleared p. 16. SECT III. His first Classe of Arguments from Act. 9. 26. and 2. 47. and Heb. 3. 5 6. brought as directly holding forth his Doctrine Answered p. 31. SECT IV. The Authors Texts which he calls hints and shadows of his Doctrine p. 40. SECT V. Examination of the proof of his Doctrine by induction p. 56 SECT VI. ExaminatioÌ„ of his proofs brought under the name of reason p. 83 SECT VII A short modest reply to the bitter use he maketh of his Doctrine p. 102. SECT VIII The Objections he maketh to himself and his Answers thereto considered p. 107. SECT IX Some Arguments confirming our Doctrine and everting the adverse opinion about the necessary qualification of Members of the Visible Kirk p. 127. APPEND Wherein is Examined so muc◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Letter written by these of Aberdene who lately have sepâ—…ted from this Kirk upon the
laid was spoken not only to the Pharisees though in speciall way it was to them but to the whole multitude of the people Luke 3. 7. Nay doth not Iohn in the prosecution of this discourse directed in speciall way to the Pharisees say I baptize you yea as in Mark I have baptized you If any shall say this was not one discourse with that going before because Luke sayeth that he uttered the last point as the people were in expectation and all men mused in their hearts c. I say this proveth not that it was another discourse or that there was any interruption or intervall of time interveening it onely sheweth that upon consideration of these thoughts in mens hearts concerning this as an speciall reason he uttered this point which yet as appeateth in Matth. and all other interpreters take it he spake also for clearing the Doctrine of Baptisme to shew what belonged to him as the externall Minister of it and what to Christ as the principall Cause and Author section 10 But see we how our Authors will prove that these Pharisees that came to John were not admitted by him and that upon this score as not seeing viz. at that time so we must circumstantiate the mater in them fruits meet for Repentance joyned with their Profession 'T is clear say they if we compare Matth. 3. with Luke 7. 3. the Pharisees were not baptized of John Ans 1. Suppose it were granted that this were meant Universally of the Pharisees and so of those that came to Iohn Matth. 3. with the rest Yet were proven but the half of that which was alleadged viz. that they were not admitted by him to baptisme But nothing is brought for the other half viz. that it was upon this score viz. because he saw not fruits meet for repentance with their Profession Might it not be that he admitted them not not upon that negative ground but upon this positive Because he saw them coming out of curiositie or maliciousnesse or jesting and not so much as in sober seriousnesse Nay take these verses 29. 30. as a continuate part of Christs speech concerning Iohn as our present Authors takes them and not so much is proven viz. that Iohn refused to admit them They import rather that they themselves refused to be baptized despised and rejected his baptisme Then that he refused to baptize them desiring to be baptized and so interpreters commonly especially those that take these verses to be a part of Christs speech understand them But 2. take these verses as you will I see not how it appears clearly by them that these Pharisees that came to Iohn Matth. 3. were not baptized by him For take them as the Evangelists words as it seemeth very probable they should be comparing them with Math. 11. 15. and the beginning of ver 31. of that 7. of Luke then they are meant of such Pharisees as were present hearing this discourse of Iohn and the meaning is this much The Pharisees that were present hearing this discourse of Christ not being baptized of Iohn c. Now can this be brought to prove that the Pharisees that came to Iohn Math. 3. were not baptized unlesse you will say that all the Pharisees in Judea yea in the world were present hearing that discourse Which is neither said in the Text nor any wayes likely they could be present And take them as a continuate part of Christs discourse concerning Iohn and supposing also that it were meant that Iohn debarred them from baptism the contrary whereof that themselves rejected despised it and would not be baptized by himl is likely to be meant as we said a little before yet it is not clear thereby that these Pharisees that came to Iohn Math. 3. were not baptized because the proposition is but indefinite and so may be verified tho understood particularly And if so what evidence have we from the words that these that came to Iohn were the men Judicious Interpreters by name Musculus and Aretius expresly comparing the one place with the other affirm they are not the same particular persons spoken of in both section 11 Against what is said in the last place our present Authors say The scope of the context will easily refute it for Christ chideth the Pharisees as worse in this c. Answ 'T is easier for men to say that their Adversary is easily refuted then to do it 1. It is likely as we shew before that in these verses 29 30. 't is not Christ that speaketh chiding the Pharisees as worse that way then the Publicans But Luke expressing how the people and Publicans present upon the one hand and the Pharisees on the other were affected with Christs discourse concernin Iohn But 2. let them be Christs own words it will not be found by the context that it is Christ his scope to chide the Pharisees he speaketh of here for this that coming to be baptized they came in an incapacity and for that incapacity were refused Baptism by Iohn tho desirous which they should have proven and not begged but for this that they would not be baptized by him For the words are not that they rejected the counsell of God and Iohn baptizeth them not or therefore were not baptized of him but they rejected the counsell of God themselves not being baptized by him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Take these words as uttered by Christ speaking on in a continuate discourse And what can a man conceive to be the meaning of them but this simply that they put away despised rejected the means of salvation ordained by God that is his counsels and made known by his Minister Iohn and this was an evidence of it that they were not baptized by him But 3. To the point we are on more nearly here let it be granted which the Authors sayes that he chideth the Pharisees for that cause they alledged The coâ—…equence built upon it to prove that these Pharisees that came to Iohn Mat. 3. were not baptized is feeble For it must be thus Christ chideth the Pharisees as worse then the Publicans for this that when as the Publicans came in a capacity to be baptized and were baptized The Pharisees did not so Ergo none of the Pharisees were baptized so neither were these mentioned Mat. 3. I deny the consequence For the antecedent may be true and Christs chiding the Pharisees generally reasonable and just tho some of them had been otherwayes affected and thereupon baptized As for the reason of the consequence brought by the Authors if these many Pharisees Mat. 3. 7. c. The whole strength of it lyes in a sophisticall insinuation that these Pharisees Mat. 3. because they are said to be many were the greatest part of all the Pharisees and these being said to be baptized there were but some few beside of whom these words Luke 7. 30. they were not baptized could be expounded this I say is but a meer sophisticall insinuation for albeit
acknowledged as members thereof and consequently to be under the Ministeriall dispensation of the publick Ordinances of Christ the ordinary means of saving souls but such as are already and antecedently found to be savingly converted regenerated and sealed of God for his by the Holy Spirit if not in the truth of the object which yet most part of his reasoning and discourse pleads for yet in the positive judgement of very spirituall and discerning men And that as some others of his way further lay out the matter upon triall and proof thereof given by a conversation led without the omission of any known duty or commission of any known sin A publick declaration of their knowledge in the fundamentalls and of other points of Religion necessary to lead a life without scandall together with a narration of the experimentall work of their Effectuall Calling unto Repentance and faith And all Churches that are not constituted of only such matter as this are to our Author wrong constitute In the former part of this Examination my labour is to discover the unwarrantablnesse and contrariety of this Tenent to the Word of God And to shew that all who being of years does seriously professe the Christian faith and subjection to be disciplin'd and governed by the Ordinances of Christ ought to be admitted into the fellowship of his Visible Church without any necessity of puting them to a triall touching their inward spirituall estate and judging upon the same whether regenerat or not as to that effect And are to be dealt with by Pastours and privat Christians in their respective wayes as these that are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 within 1 Cor. 5. 12. Upon this point I have insisted the more largely because not so fully and of purpose handled by others before And it is of a truth of greater importance then many are awarre of 'T is far from my thoughts to charge our Independent Brethren with any perverse designe in taking up and following that opinion which I dispute against Many of them known to me by their writings especially these worthy Ministers in New-England Cotton Hooker Shepheard Norton c. I do from my heart reverence as godly and faithfull Servants of Christ and as burning and shining lights in the Reformed Church But I think verily the specious notion of a pure Visible Church has duzled their eyes and led them upon a way which in it self beside that it hath no warrand in the Word of God should it get footing in the world tends to the ruine loss of many souls and to the bringing of the greatest prejudice to the present Cause and Churches that any thing ever yet did since the first Reformation from Popery And I am perswaded that albeit the intention of those holy and reverend men abettors of it be honest and from simplicity of heart Yet Satan is under-board let no man offend at this I say Peters example teacheth us that Satan may abuse good mens zeal and intentions for Christ to wicked ends contrair to his Cause Satan I say is under-board driving that wicked designe For if that be the the rule and modell of constituting the Visible Church which they give us are not all the Reformed Churches by this means condemned of wrong constitution razed out of the account of true Visible Churches as not being conformed nor ever having been set up according to that modell And what could more gratifie the Roman Antichrist and his followers then to yeeld this Again is there not hereby a ground laid to Question all Administration of Ordinances that has been in them and to justifie the wilde fancy of Seekers denying that there is or hath been for many ages any Church or Ordinances in the world Moreover when as none of the Reformed Churches at this day are thus constitute if that modell should have place must not either all of them be dissolved and cast down to the ground that new ones may be reared up of some few precious ones picked out of their ruines or to the effect they may consist only of persons regenerated and sealed by the Spirit all other persons who albeit they professe the truth subject themselves to Ordinances yet come not up so far as to obtain a positive sentence that they are regenerat upon such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 evidences as these men require must be all cast out and banished the Church put amongst those that are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without 1 Cor. 5. 12 left destitute of the custody of spiritual Discipline Pastorall instruction inspection and authority And so exposed to be a prey to Satan and his Emissaries Jesuits Hereticks and erroneous spirits whatsoever to be led away unto what soever pernicious soul-destroying errours or to turn black Atheists That this is no needlesse fear but a reall consequent of this way is too too clear by the sad examples of many in these times who living without the pale of true Visible Churches and not subject to the shepheards staffe and vigilancy are run out into so many wilde errours in Religion as never age of the Christian Church saw the like Touching the other head the Author in his Appendix pleadeth for two things 1. That the power and exercise of Church Government should be in the hands of the whole body or community of Professours as well as of the Officers appointed by Christ in the Church A Tenent not heard of in the Christian Church untill Morellius in France Anabaptists and Brownists fancied it and as contrary to the Word of God which to Ministers and other Officers appointed by Christ in his Church as contradistinguished from common Professours attributeth the name of Rulers injoyns the work of Ruling and prescribes the rules of right governing but never to the people so cannot but unavoidably draw after it much confusion and frequent schisms in the Church of God whereof experience affordeth plenty of examples 2. That this power of Government should be solely intirely â—nd Independently in a single Congregation A Tenent that besides the contrariety thereof to the Word of God and the very light of nature carrieth with it a multitude of gross absurdities and inconveniencies By this means let a particular Congregation of 30. or 20. or fewer 10. or 7. persons for of so few may a Church as our Brethren say be compleatly constitute run into never so grosse an errour as to Excommunicate a person unjustly to hold and maintain Heresie in Doctrine to set up idolatrous worship there is no Ecclesiastick authoritative remedy left under Heaven to rectifie it All Church-communion amongst the Churches of Christ is taken away The unity of Christs sheep-fold the Visible Church upon earth is dissolved and Christ should have as many visible bodies as there are particular Congregations A Minister could not perform any Ministeriall act out of his own Congregation Not Preach but as a privat gifted Brother Not Administer the Sacraments out of his own Congregation nor give the Sacrament
Independent grounds as relateth to the pâ—…sent Question touching the necessary qualification of Members of the Visible Kirk p. 168. PART II. Concerning Kirk Government SECT I. MR. Lockier his first Assertion That the Eldership within a particular Congregation is not in most weighty things to exert power without the consent and approbation of the Kirk whereof they are considered p. 194. SECT II. Examination of his 1 2 3 4. Argument p. 203. SECT III. His 5 Argument discussed p. 226. SECT IV. His Argument from common testimony considered and Answered p. 251. SECT V. His Answers to some Objections made against his Assertion from some Passages of Scripture examined p. 255. SECT VI. His Answers to some other Objections made by way of reason examined p. 263. SECT VII His second Assertion touching Presbyteries of many particular Congregations combined and the true state of the controversie touching this mater betweeen Presbyterians and Independents laid forth p. 283. SECT VIII His first ground against a Presbytery having authoritative juridicall power over more Congregations that it is without foundation in the Word examined p. 288. SECT IX Examination of his 2. medium that what power of ruling an Eldership hath it hath it in the same extent with its Pastorall power p. 311. SECT X. Examination of his 3. medium that it destroyes the end for which Kirk power is p. 317. SECT XI Examination of his 4. medium that a particular Congregation is compleat and sufficient in it self without an associate Presbytery over more Congregations p. 325. SECT XII A reply to his Answers to some Objections wherein separation from not only the Kirk of Scotland but all the Protestant Presbyterian Kirks as Idolatrous is driven at p. 340. APPEND Wherein is Examined what is said in the forementioned Letter of the new Independents of Aberdene for the Independent Congregationall and against the Presbyteriall way of Kirk-Government p. 360. AN INDEX Of the places of SCRIPTURE Vindicated or Explained   pag. NUmb 11. 17. 227. Deut. 29. 2 3 4. 10 11 12 13. 133. Prov. 9. 3 4. 155. Isa 66. 16. to the end 97. Jerem. 12. 9. 101. 31. 33. 53 56. Dan. 12. 1. 101. Mal. 1. 11. 93. Mat. 3. 5. 6. 134. 7. 181. 13. 24. 47. 163. 16 17 18 19. 40. 235. 18. 15 16 17 18. 227. 364. Luke 7. 30. 181. John 3. 26. 137. Acts 1. 15. 23. 289. 26. 244. 2. 38. 119. 136. 47. 34. 4. 35. 292. 6. 3 4 5 6. 294. 8. 13. 118. 9. 26. 31. 11. 20 21 23. 9. 25. 11. 13. 2 3. 259. 41. 44. 104. 14. 23. 246. 27 28. 12. 15. 8. 11. 16 17 18 19. 14. 22 23. 239. 371. 27. 285. 28. 297. 16. 4. 242. 20. 28. 32. 66. 276. 296. 312. 21. 25. 242. Rom. 1. 6 7 8 9. 60. 173. 10. 14. 17. 156. 1 Cor. 1. 2. to 8. 68. 3. 10. to 17. 86. 22. 216. 4. 4 5. 62. 5. 4. 237. 6. 18 19 20. 173. 12 13 14. 179. 2 Cor. 1. 24. 27â— 2. 6. 236. 5 18 19 20. 156. 6. 16. 91. Gal. 1. 22. 74. 4. 9. 64. 6. 1. ib. Eph. 1. 13. ib. 2. 20 22. 84. 3. 21. 92. Phil. 1. 6 72. 1 Thes 2. 13 14. 74. 108. 5. 12. 324. 2 Thes 3. 15. 178. 1 Tim. 2. 20. 125. 3. 5. 90. 4. 14. 255. 309. 5. 22. 260. 17. 314. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 258. 2. 10. 159. 20. 124. 21. 163. 24 25. 156. Tit. 1. 5. 260. Heb. 3. 5 6. 37. 7. 7. 258. 8. 10. 53 54. 13. 7. 273. 1 Pet. 1 2 3. 74. 5. 3. 212. 273. 13. 74. Rev. 3. 10. 100. 4. 53. 11. 1 2. 44. 76. 13. 6. 104. 19. 11. ib. 21. 101. EXAMINATION OF Mr. LOCKYERS LECTURE on ACTS 15. Vers 3. Concerning the MATTER of the VISIBLE CHURCH SECTION I. Wherein is examined his Analysis and Explication of the Text for laying a Ground to his Doctrine concerning the Matter of the VISIBLE CHURCH section 1 IN the entrance I must professe it was a matter of some wonder to me when this Piece came first to my hands to see a man of such account as Mr. Lockyer for grounding his Doctrine he intended pitch upon this Passage of Scripture which I am ready to think few else would have dreamed much appearance of weight could been laid on for that purpose Sure a man that would in Preaching hold forth to the People of God Doctrine as truth and received from the Lords mouth and would convince people that it is such had need be sure that the Scripture he presents for it doth indeed carry it either expresly or by necessary and evident consequence Otherwayes as he doth much wrong his own cause giving his hearers that are judicious occasion to suspect the Doctrine can have little or no ground at all in Scripture when they see that which is presented to them as the very seat of iâ— giveth it no light so he doth notably abuse the Word of God and I may say in a kinde take his Name in vain before his people by alledging the Lord to speak and give a testimony to a point by a Scripture wherein it is not at all intended Yea let a point of Doctrine be most true and never so certain in it self such as that maintained in this Lecture is not as we trust through the Lords assistance to make evident yet to Preach it from a Text that speaketh it not is an abuse of the Word of God If there be not just cause of charging this upon Mr. Lockier here I leave it to be judged by all discerning and unpartiall Readers from what followeth in this Section section 2 In the next Section I purpose to state the Question in hand as clearly as I can and ingenuously to bound the differences between us Now in a word only take notice what Mr. Lockiers purpose intended in this Lecture is to treat of the proper and allowed matter of a visible Church which he will have to be such persons only as are truely converted sanctified and sealed by the Spirit of God as his at least so far as men truely converted and very spirituall can discern of which additionall qualification afterward and his Text for this Doctrine is Acts 15. v. 3 And being brought on their way by the Church they passed through Phenice and Samaria declaring the conversion of the Gentiles and they caused great joy unto all the brethren Now let 's see what the Author bringeth for evidencing his point or any thing like it to ly in this Text. section 3 The principall things saith he in this vers are these viz. a Church of the New Test described by its proper matter and by a proper effect and operation which this hath upon such who are indeed turned unto the Lord and able to discern spirituall beauty and glory it causeth great joy to all such And being brought on by the Church what the matter of this Church is read the next words and they will tell you they declared the
we wish you may do we cite you before his Tribunall to answer for it But 2. Sir we are content also to stand at the Barre of any impartiall judicious Divines in the Christian World and that they give their judgement by that same much which I who pretends not to be one of the Learned Men in this Land have Answered to your preceeding Discourse if your Doctrine be such as we are not able to disprove and if we do not upon some good grounds of reason and not out of a meer spirit of contradiction oppose the same And thus I shall leave your invective without saying any more to it we have not learned Christ so as to repay evill with evill bitternesse with bitternesse you have cursed us we blesse you we wish you heartily a blessing Repentance and forgivennesse of this evill thought of your heart and the uncharitable issue of it SECTION VIII Mr. Lockyers Objections he maketh to himself and his Answers thereto considered section 1 MR. Lockier having discharged that bitter foregoing invective against the opposers of his way comes to propound and answer some Objections against himself choised out and formed at his own pleasure Five in number whereof two only are in causâ Were there no other Arguments worthy of his consideration besides these to be found in Orthodox Writers opposite to his way If he thinks not it will seem he hes not read such Writers on this purpose as he might and ought for clearing of himself and others If he knew others why did he not assay to clear them also I think he had not will to present before his hearers all Arguments brought against his Doctrine least he should not ridde his feet well of them and something thereof might have stuck to such as was judicious Whatsoever hes moved him so to passe them over we hope it shall shortly appear he had some cause rather to passe them in silence then to hazard grappling with them it was his prudence so to do But let 's see these he hath and his answers to them section 2 Obj. 1. Why But they gather Churches out of Churches whom you plead for Why I thought the Dispute hitherto ye have been on was not about persons and their practises but about a dogmatick point Had we been propounding Objections to you we should not troubled our selves with these extrinsecall ones taken from prejudices against persons abaters of your Doctrine But should more directly pointed at the throat of the cause it self Yet we think all Godly Orthodox men in the Christian World besides your selves will judge that the Godly Ministers of Christ in this Iland have just cause to lay this practice of picking out of Orthodox Churches in which Jesus Christ is soundly Taught Sacraments administred according to their institution and are by the most judicious of your own way confessed to be true Churches from which it is not lawfull to make separation such Professours as by Gods blessing upon his Ordinances in these Churches have gotten most good to make up of them Churches to your selves All Orthodox Christians will judge this justly laid to your charge as a Schismatick practice having no warrand or president in the Word of God tending to the begetting of heart-burnings divisions hatred amongst Christians yea these of nearest relations Husband and Wife Parents and Children Magistrats and People to the hindring and no wayes to the promoving of the Work of Reformation But see what is said to this section 3 Nay it is but Churches out of a Church Gospel Churches out of a legall Nationall Church and the one being abolished there may be yea there ought to be a departing from it and a gathering out of it unto the order which God hath instituted so we finde Churches gathered out of that Church of the Jews Gal. 1. 22. And whether he meaneth by being in Christ meerly according to profession see 1 Thes 2. 14. Ans 1. The citation of the 1 Thes 2. 14. for clearing what is meant by being in Christ mentioned Gal. 1. 22. is a digression from the purpose of the Objection and hath been sufficiently answered before 2. You gather Churches say you out of a Church not out of Churches This is strange are not the Church of Edinburgh and the Church of Aberdene Churches Again if it be a fault to gather Churches out of Churches shall it be no fault to gather Churches out of a Church majus minus non variant speciem Ay 't is a legall Nationall Church he meaneth such as the Jewish such a Church is abolished therefore 't is no fault yea we ought to gather c. For Answer We may consider a Nationall or Provinciall Church of a threefold sort and notion 1. Wherein all of the Nation are bound to a publick and solemn typicall service and Worship to be performed in one place chosen by God under the inspection of one Visible Pastor or Priest who in Worship and Sacrifices doth hold forth and represent the whole People of the Nation 2. Such a Nationall and Provinciall Church in which many particular Churches are united and subjected unto one Church as they call it Mother or Cathedrall Church and depend upon a Visible Pastor who is Pastor and Ruler of all other Pastors and particular Churches in the Nation or Province And wherein the Inferiour Churches enjoy Divine Ordinances and Ecclesiasticall power and jurisdiction of that Mother and Cathedrall Church or that Provinciall or Nationall Pastor 3. Such a Nationall Church wherein many particular Churches are joyned and united together under one Visible Church-Government wherein all are equally and collaterally concerned and have equall interest for the use and exercise of all these Ordinances which are necessary to the Visible Ministeriall Government of these Churches and mutuall Ecclesiasticall fellowship in it and edification and preservation by it Now a Nationall Church in the second notion is not nor ever was an Ordinance of God but a meer invention of men and Antichristian tyrannie overthrowing the power granted by GOD to the Churches and Pastors A nationall Church of the first notion and sense was indeed an Ordinance of God Such were the Jews but instituted and to continue for a definite time viz. untill the fulnesse of time should come and then it was abolished and evanished And a Church Nationall in this sense was legall But a Nationall Church in the third sense is not a legall or typicall Church and Ordinance But moralis perpetui juris Such was the Jewish under the Old Testament in point of Government and Ecclesiastick Discipline They were many particular Churches and Synagogues â—hich did in diverse places celebrat the Morall Worship of God and the exercises of Doctrine Discipline and Church-Government Acts 15. 21. Acts 13. 15 16. Luke 21. 12. John 12. 42. All which were joyned and united under one Nationall Visible Ecclesiastick Government This Visible Church-ship so to speak of the Church of the Jews as
and precious servants of Jesus Christ I leave it to be judged of any indifferent man considering the posture of affairs in these Lands But I beleeve those whom the Authors words tends to irritate will not be so foreward to put forth their hand as he is to solicit them The other challenge made against that precious man is evidently â— grosse and palpable wresting of his words the fault Mr. Lockier had but in that same breath almost charged upon him without giving any evidence of it and a very wringing of the nose to bring forth blood I report me to every ingenuous man If reading Mr. Rutherfurds words as they are alledged by Mr. Lockier himself he will conceive that Mr. Rutherfurd meaneth what he sayeth of all and every Independent in England as M. Lockier constructeth them or not rather that he speaketh only of all within his knowledge And what cause then is there of such out-crying against Mr. Rutherfurd for these words as if they were a mater of trembling Verily I cannot but think it a mater of trembling to see a man with so much confidence and boldnesse palpably misconstructing an honest mans words to make him odious section 6 He Answ 3. That there is difference between a cause and occasion That we walk in a fundamentall truth in the power of it many take occasion hence to scoffe break forth into much wickednesse is it not therefore the truth which we follow And then he telleth us that as light hath broken forth in every age Sathan hath laboured to darken it and gives instances As 1. That when the first Fathers began to lay again that great principle and fundamentall of the Trinity to darken this he set on foot Arrius heresie 2. When some of the modern Divines laid that great fundamentall point of Justification by faith in Christ to darken this he conjured up the Anabaptists in Germany which denyed proprietie Magistracie all which is good and then addeth now when God hath made another accession of light respecting the roofe and upper part of the house the Independent way of constitution and Government of Churches what stirres fogs mists hath he raised Is all this therefore darknesse drosse I think things about which the Devil maketh such adoe may rather be thought to have something in them rather then to conclude they have nothing of God within them because the Devil doth not usually set against his own Doth not divide against the Devil When this New Heaven as the Prophet calleth it this new order was first set up at Jerusalem what bloody stirres made it there When first at Antioch what work made it there No small dissention Acts 15. 2. and yet the mind of God Answ 1. Much mistaking hes been discovered already in this Lecture of Mr. Lockiers but in no one passage hath he worse acquyted himself then in this we have now in hand 1. True it is no good Argument or prejudice either against a Tenet or point of Doctrine that many take occasion thence to scoffe and break forth into much wickedeesse But this is not to the purpose in hand Our alledgeance is that the Independent way of Church-Government is such in the nature of it as giveth occasion to men to run freely without controlement into errours and is a kinde of shelter for such as holds and maintains errours to run to as experience proveth and this sure if it be not an intrinsick Argument yet it is a strong presumption against a Tenet that it is not of God the like cannot be said of the Presbyterian way 2. As to the two instances brought in They are as impertinent as the former generall For neither by the Doctrine of the Trinity was occasion given any wayes to the Arian heresie But the Devill raised up Arius and his heresie to oppose and darken that fundamentall point of Christianity Nor was there by the Doctrine of Justification cleared by these modern fathers occasion given to the stirres of Anabaptists But these were raised by the Devill in opposition against that and other points of Religion then cleared I humbly conceive it agrees not well with Historie to say that upon the fathers beginning again to lay that principall fundamentall of the Trinity the Devill did set on foot the Arian heresie The History of these times seemeth to say that the setting on foot the Arian heresie gave occasion to these ancient fathers to establish and confirm from the Word of God that principle and fundamentall of the Trinity 3. While as Mr. Lockier by way of application of these things noted on before first sayeth now in this period of time God hath made another accession of light respecting the roofe and upper part of the house meaning his Independent way of Church constitution and Government and then subjoyneth by way of Question and now what sturres c Why what now Is all therefore he but miserably begs his Question viz. that his way is a new accession of light 4. Worst of all doth he plead for his own cause in relation to the former Objection when as he alledgeth that it may rather be thought a way that hath something of God in it which the Devill opposeth then to conclude to the contrary because the Devill doth not usually set against his own Why The Independent way is that which this day all the emissaries of Satan I mean not meer â—ndependents themselves many of whom I love and reverence and almost all the Sect masters of the time betakes themselves to and hugges in their arms And the Presbyterian way is that which all the errours and heresies of the time opposeth looketh upon as the great eye-sore and hateth cane pejus angue 5. 'T is somewhat more then inconsiderat contempt of his hearers and readers when he will have them beleeve that it was the setting up of his Independent Church order at Jerusalem and Antioch that was the mater and object of the bloody sturres and no small dissentions there Ah Mr. Lockier it was another mater upon which these things were raised then who should be members of the Visible Church or what form of externall Government should be followed 't was the Preaching of Justification and salvation through faith in Jesus Christ without the works of the Law section 7 The 3. Object Mr. Lockier meeteth with till Independency no such sharp and bloody stirres and dissentions Where did you read this brought as an Argument against your Doctrine of Church-members Will any body say that these impertinencies were brought on the stage for any other end but to catch occasion to vent splen against persons of men for what else is it that followeth by way of Answer to this section 8 1. Presbyterians began first to draw the sword and their bitternesse and basenesse hath hightned it to that to which otherwise in likelihood it would not have come The two latter Summers Wars have been the sharpest I know they will say that they have felt And
the Apostle who wrot to them ye have heard Answ We take what the Author saith that this great house is the Church of the Ephesians and it may well be so taken as applicable to the Church of Ephesus or any other Church then I say he hath furnished a weapon against himself for if this house be the Church of the Ephesians to which â—he Apostle wrot then when as writing to them he â—…lled them Saints he meaneth not that â—f all and every one of them but spake it 〈◊〉 the body indefinitely and confusedly why Should that bâ— understood universally it should be a flat contradiction to what he saith here that the Church of the Ephesians is a great house in which there are some vessels to dishonour non-saints yea very reprobates appointed to wrath It will not salve the mater to say as Mr. Lockier insinuateth that the Apostle in writing to the Ephesians speaketh of what they were in his judgement For Paul is speaking his judgement here too Now how can these two judgements consist in one man To my judgement all and every one of the Church of Ephesus are reall Saints sealed as his and yet I pronounce there are in the Church of Ephesus some reall un-saints very reprobates Indeed if the Apostle here had not determined positively and purè But by way of suspence and modaliter in this house the Church of Ephesus may be or possibly there are some vessels of dishonour there would not be such repugnancie or incompatibilitie of this with the former But he speaks absolutely and positively there are some vessels to dishonour SECTION IX Some further Arguments confirming our Doctrine and everting the adverse opinion about the necessarie qualification of Members of the Visible Church section 1 MR. Lockier hath chosen out some Objections against his Doctrine as made by his adveâ—sarie but indeed framed at his own pleasure only two of them are in causâ the other are but extrinsecall to the cause Reflections and prejudices against persons this I confesse has been wittily done for gaining advantage in the minds of Hearers and Readers unacquainted with the controversie for his own and against his adversaries cause But it is not very ingenuous dealing What has there never a reason more been brought against that Tenet of his by learned men but these two I cannot think but he has seen and read Gul. Apolon consideration of certain controversies c. sâ—nt to the Assembly at Westminster 1644. Spanhems Epistle to Mâ— Buchanaâ— Mr. Rutherfurd his fiâ—st and second book aâ—ainst the Independent way however he might have read them and found therein besides other writings of Orthodox Divines some other arguments to answer Well because he has thought it fit to content himself with these two which yet how he has satisfied we leave it to the intelligent Reader to judge we shall adde some few more not troubling our selves nor the Reader with repetition of all that hath been said by others section 2 Arg. 1. If Moses did admit as Members into the external communion of the Visible Church under the Old Test men professing the true God of Israel the Covenant with him and his true Worship without enquirie for the Work of true Grace in their hearts or positive evidences that they were truely converted regenerate and gracious so far as men could discern and judge Yea knowing assuredly that many of them were as yet unconverted and hard hearted Item if Iohn the Baptist the Apostles and the Master Builder and Lord of the Church Jesus Christ himself did admit into the externall communion of the Visible Church of the New Test such as did professe the Christian Faith as soon as they did professe without delay for trying and searching evidences of the Work of Grace in their hearts Then in all Churches persons ought to be admitted upon the same termes And it is not a necessary qualification in foro Ecclesiastico for constituting one capable of Visible-Church-Membership that he be truely converted such as God who knoweth the hearts of all men can bear witnesse to as indeed sealed for his by his Spirit so far as men truely converted and very spirituall are 〈◊〉 to discerne and judge but the antecedent is true in all the parts thereof Ergo c. section 3 As to the consequence or connexion of the proposition it is likely Mr. Lockier will not acknowledge it upon the first part of the antecedent viz. the manner and ground of admitting Members into the Visible Church of the Old Testament because his judgement as seemeth is that the constitution of the Visible Church of the New Test in this point is essentially different from that of the Old for he restricteth his Thesis concerning the matter of the Visible Church to the dayâ—… of the Gospel not once which to me smelleth â—…nk of Anabaptists who as we know denying Infant Baptisme upon this ground because they cannot give evidences of Faith Being pressed with the Argument taken from Infants Church-Membership and sealing with the initiating Sacrament under the Old Testament to eschew if they could the dint of that argument do run upon the assertion of an essentiall difference between the constitution of the one Church and of the other and so deayes the consequence from practise in the one to the other as we see Mr. Tombs doeth in his dispute with Mr. Baxter I will not think that Mr Lockier doth run the Anabaptists length in making use of that difference Buâ— certaiâ—… if he assert as he seemeth to do an essentiall difference 〈…〉 one and the other he for his part gives them a fair ground 〈…〉 that argument used by all Orthodox Divines for Infant Bapâ—…e but the Orthodox have solidely asserted and maintained that the constitution of the Church under the Old Test and New differ not in essentialls but in accidentals only If our Author be otherwise minded I desiâ—… him to ponder and answer what the learned and acute Divine Mr. Baxter hath on that purpose in his dispute against Tombs pag. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36. and I will in the mean time suppose with the consent of all Orthodox Divines the consequence of the Proposition even upon that first part of the Antecedent to be valide section 4 As to the consequence 〈◊〉 the other part of the Anâ—…cedent viz. the practice of John the Baptist the Apostles and of our LORD JESUS CHRIST himself under the New Test admitting persons to the fellowship of the Visible Church upon their first professing faith and subjection to the Ordiâ—…nces without any delay of time for trying the sincerity â—…d â—rutâ— of the work of grace in the heart I know what uses to be excepted against the practice of the Apostles and the consequences there deduced from it viz. that the Apostles were men induâ—… with an eminent gift of discerning and therefore although th◠〈◊〉 admit men as soon as they made profession without further deny or tryall yet that they did this as
Having briefly noted thus upon Mr. Hookers two Syllogismes we return to our Author section 18 In the close of this his first Argument for confirmation thereof he addeth thus That here they did acquiesce viz. in â—inding the Churchâ—… to which they sent only by way of counsel and materially and did not further meddle with any juridicall processe upon them appears by these pacifick words which would they were written not with ink and pen but with the spirit of the Lord upon all Presbyters hearts who are so turbulent in these 〈◊〉 Froâ— which if you keep your selves you shall do well Ans Mr. Lockier is here in a great mistake while as he insinuateth that if the Synod did not meddle with juridicall processe viz. as I conceive to censure upon them to whom they sent the decrees that it must then be said they acquiesced in meer giving of counsâ—ll 〈…〉 Court or Judicatory had no other act of authoritativâ— Jurisdictioâ— but processing persons to censure When as the making 〈◊〉 authoritative imposing of constitutions which indeed makes persons liable to censure in case of disobedience is an act of juridicall Authority though there be no processing personâ—â—o censure presently joined therewith And that 〈◊〉 this 〈…〉 and authoritatively I mean Ministerially impos◠〈◊〉 â—…tions upon the Churches the they went 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉 â—ny of them hâ—s been abundaâ—…ly proven by the Authoâ—… 〈…〉 2. Yea they did actually put â—orth a 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 schisme and disseâ—… 〈…〉 Teachers by stigmatiâ—… 〈…〉 Teacherâ— and 〈◊〉 them by declâ—ring them 〈…〉 the Church â—oâ—…tters of souls and â—acitely 〈…〉 words unto whom we gave no such 〈…〉 â—o â—e 〈…〉 of the Apostles and Elderâ— of Jerusâ—… 〈…〉 to Preach this Doctrine Thâ—… 〈…〉 of censure and â—ended to more if they 〈…〉 incorâ—igible and obstiâ—…◠But 〈…〉 good earâ—est when as he sayeth 〈…〉 of the Synodicall Epistle to 〈◊〉 Churchâ—… 〈…〉 to these matters 〈◊〉 give couâ—sell 〈…〉 Churches and wish that for thâ— purpose they 〈◊〉 Wrâ—…en not with 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 c. as if forâ—ooth because the Synoâ—â—nd their decrees in an Epistle which was a respectfull way because they recommend the practice and obediâ—… of them by the goodnesse thâ—reof this did necessarily imporâ— they did not enjoin them by authority but only advised them by way of Christian counsell Verily such reasoning â—…red with such a â—hetoricall wish Would they were Written c. I think may blâ—sh in the present of any intelligent man As for that bitter â—ccuâ—…tion the Authâ—r gives in against all Presbyters he meâ—… Presbyteriâ—ns not Presbyters of his own way sure as turbuâ—ent persons we wish the Lord may lay it to his conscience but not to his charge For ouâ— selves it being cast upon us for no other cause but for standing to the maintainance and avowing of the Cause of Jesus Christ and the due authority of his Ordinances we shall â—…ntly 〈◊〉 our selves with that of his Blessed are ye when men 〈…〉 you and shall say all manner of evill against 〈…〉 for my sake so persecuted they the Prâ—pheâ—s which were before you section 19 His second reason aâ—…edged to prove this Synod did exercise only a power of counsell Sect. 3â— in 〈◊〉 iâ— this much The conâ—roversie decided in this Synod being between the Church of Antioch and some Judaizing Tâ—achers it is evident that one side in the Synod was a party to wit them of Antioâ—h Now for these who were a party and â—ontested against their opposites to be judge in their own cause and to be juridicall upon their Antagonists by their own power cannot equiâ—ably or conscionably be imagined It is saith Hooker against rule Answ I remember this very objection is one of the grounds of thâ—… Protestation and Declinator made by the Remonstrants against that 〈…〉 Reverend Synod of Dort Because to wit a great part of the Members of the Synod were their adverse party had by Preaching and Writing before condemned their Doctrine 〈◊〉 errour and that the Law of Nature doth not permit that 〈…〉 be judge in their own cause Which 〈…〉 unanimous suffrage of the 〈…〉 â—ull and the reasons whereupon they did 〈◊〉 it which are to be seen in the acts of the Synod â—ess â—9 do abundantly refuse this reason alledged to prove that this Synod 〈…〉 did only exercise a power of counsell and 〈…〉 authoritatively determine the mater 〈…〉 Not being willing to fill up much paper with transcriptionâ— I 〈◊〉 the judicious Reâ—der to the suffrages of these reverend and learned Diviâ—… themselves for more full satisfaction For the present brieâ—… it is a grosse mistake of our Author and Mr. Hooker from whom â—e hath it that these Commissioners of the Church of Antioâ—h members of this Synod if the Synod did juâ—…dically and authoritatively judg and determine in the mater that was before them did judge in their own cause if he mean their own proper private cause the â—…ter of their judgement was not the proper private cause 〈◊〉 any member of the Synod but the publick cause of GOD and his Church the doctrine of justificatiâ—… which the Judaâ—…ing Teachers did corrupt and the peace of the Church which they disturbed Now thâ— persons cannot be both an adverse party and Judge in their own private cause which concerneth themselves yet in a publick cause this may be Even in civill maters this may and must be in some cases The persons that constitute the supream Judicatory of a Nation suppose the Parliament they are both adverse party and Judge in publick causes as in maters of treason c. Especially this exception from that Maâ—ime which is alledged that persons cannot be both adverse party and Judge in their own cause must not have place in maters and controversies of Religion otherwise there could be no judiciall way at all for condemning false and haereticall Teachers For certain it is that all Ministers of Jesus Christ are oblidged by their Calling and the Commandement of God not only to teach and instruct the people of God positively in the truth â—ut also to reâ—ute the errors and stop the mouths of opposers and adversaries of the Truth so that when any broach and vent errors in the Church of God the Ministers of Christ must not stand neutrals and indifferent but must and ought both by word and wriâ— reâ—uâ—e â—nd 〈◊〉 them and be an adverse party to tâ—…m Must they therefore because they do their duty in opposing Teachers of errors in their severall particular stations be uncapable in an Assembly to judge and condemne these errors and abettors of them judicially Verily this were nothing else but to proclaim 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 spirits in the world to teach and spread 〈…〉 without any controlement in an Ecclesiasticall way And veâ—…ly this principle That persons that are an adverse party to false Teachers in maters of Religion cannot be Judgeâ— on the controversie between them and these Teachers was very far from the the thoughts of
confession that the bearing in of these thoughts upon them at first has been from no good cause or principle Not from the Spirit of God unlesse they will say it has been by an immediate impulse or Enthusiasme For say they it was after a long times suppressing of them that they began to consult with the Word of God about them for that is as I conceive to bring them to the ballance of the Sanctuary 3. If implicitely they engaged themselves to the maintenance of the Government desined and settled in this Church sure then if they will reflect upon the nature and tenor of the engagement they may find themselves to have committed in the very act more sin than they insinuate here or I will name For let them look back again unto the Nationall Covenant and they shall find that they not only engaged themselves to the maintenance of the Religion professed in this Church in all the points thereof But also declared and protested themselves under Oath after due Examination of their own consciences in maters of true and false Religion to be throughly resolved of the Truth thereof by the Word and Spirit of God and therefore to believe with their hearts confesse with their mouth and subscribe with their hands I do indeed â—ear that many did run unto that Engagement without such conviction of mind upon clear warrand of Gods Word found by Examination of the maters And as to do this with so solemne and dreadfull an attestation of God that they did it upon conviction of conscience was horrible guiltinesse So it may wel be apprehended that God in his holy judgement has suffered many for the discovery of the falshood of their hearts may be in mercy to some may be in wrath to others to revolt from these their former Engagements I wish from my heart these Brethren so I will yet call them if they will yet be so called by us if it be true which they say now that they engaged implicitely whereas they protested before God that they did it upon through conviction they would consider this lay it to heart and yet againe bring their present way to the ballance of the Sanctuary I have been with others witnesse of some who having engaged in the cause of God in these lands and caried themseves therein for a long time resolutely and actively and having afterward foully lapsed into contrary courses when they have been brought to Repentance for their backsliding Have declared that they found that their back-sliding had arisen from this that their engaging in the cause at first and going on in it formerly was not upon conviction from grounds of the Word of God but implicitely and for by and extrinsecall respects 4. It is not competent to me to question nor will I question their diligence in seeking of God when they began to enquire about this matter tho it be a thing usuall now-a-dayes for men to set out naughtiest wares with this inscription after seeking of God but as for using of all helps they could have to be cleared I think some thing may be questioned For besides helps of mens Writings upon this purpose might they not have used the help of the advice of the Judicatories of this Kirk and represented the grounds of their doubting to some of them Acts of Generall Assemblies require this that before men vent any innovations in matters of Religion they should first peaceably represent their Reasons to the publick Judicatures And albeit they may haply say that the very matters they were questioning was the Authority of these Judicatories Yet humility if they had not overweening conceits of their own wits above the judgement of these Judicatures and charity if they had so much as they ought towards the Church wherein they were born baptized instructed some of them had been for some years Ministers and acting in association in the established Judicatures thereof might it seemeth led them to so much But if they accounted the Judicatures unworthy the consulting with might they not have used the help of conference with some of these precious and learned men whom they professe to reverence If they did consult with any of them before they were determined in the matter yea before they did vent their new judgement is more then I know or can learn But come we to their determination and the confirmation of it section 2 So far say they as we can see the Congregationall way comes nearer to the patern of the Word then the Classicall form Here it may be asked why they say only that the Congregationall way comes nearer to the patern and not simply that it is the way conform to the patern of the Word What does the Congregationall way it self come somewhat short of the patern and is there a third way distinct both from it and the Classicall that comes full up to it Is there here a reservation for a further light It may be we may hear somewhat of this ere all be done But go we on to their desinition or proposition of the Congregationall way To us say say it appeareth that Christ hath furnished a Congregation with their Eldership with compleat power of Jurisdiction and censure within themselves There are here two things asserted by the Authors which accordingly they intend to prove by their two Arguments respectivè afterward built upon the passage of Scripture which they cite 1. That by Christs appointment the power of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction and censure is in the Congregation i. e. the body of privat professours and the Eldership jointly both being to concur formally in the acting thereof and not only in the Eldership 2. That any one single Congregation with its Eldership has compleat power of jurisdiction and censure within it self supreamly and without subordination to any larger or superiour Preâ—…yterie But for further clearing of their minde here it were requisit they should explain these two things to us 1. Whom they mean by the Congregation contradistinguished from the Eldership whether the whole collection of Church-members or only men and those of years of discretion If the former then Women and Children must be joint with the Eldership in the power of jurisdiction and censures If this be their minde we would know it and they would speak it plainly If the latter then it is not the Congregation but some part of the Congregation with the Eldership that has the power of jurisdiction and censure or else Women and Children are not parts constituent of the Congregation and then let them tell me where shall they find the name of the Church in all the Gospel in this notion taken for the Eldership with the â—ale-professours of adult years excluding Women and Children 2. Suppose the whole Eldership of a Congregation be scandalous and censurable who has the power of jurisdiction and censure to exercise toward them If jurisdiction and censure should be exercised towards them as I suppose it should be who has it and
no other means of dealing against them but by the Word and other spirituall Ordinances if you do not give a toleration to them let all men of common sense judge the Passages of Scripture hinted at by the Author for putting a colour upon this opinion of his are miserably abused For the former the parable of the tares I refer the Reader to Mr. Rutherfurd For the latter Zachar. 4. 6. Not by might nor by power but by my Spirit saith the Lord of Hosts Certain it is from the whole context that the Lords meaning there is this Because the people lately returned from Baylon and now imployed in the work of building the Temple were much discouraged in the prosecution of the work by the thoughts of the greatnesse of the work of the greatnesse of the power and opposition of their enemies and of their own weaknesse he would have them to know that it was not by the power of the creature but by his own power that that work was to be carried through and that therefore they ought not to be discouraged seeing his power was sufficient to bear down and remove the greatest impediments and to make the weakest means effectuall to accomplish the work 5. It is true that the word and other Ordinances are mighty through God to cast down strong imaginations of vain men but is it therefore a good Argument and Consequence the Word of God and other Ordinances are mighty through God to cast down such strong imaginations as Haereticall Doctrines Ergo the Civil Magistrate has nothing to do to suppresse the teaching of them by his Sword and power If so then it will as well follow he has nothing to do to suppresse or punish the out-breakings of carnall lusts in adulteries thefts murders c. Why For I beleeve the Word and other Ordinances of God are mighty through God to cast down these as well as the other The Author addeth Order is but making to in Church and State and therefore things are but disorderly in this Nation Warres make Lawes mute Answ 'T is well that at last he acknowledges that it is so that errours are tolerat for that is the charge he is answering to and that this is disorderly which yet how it can consist well with what he hath now been saying in the preceeding words I see not but if the excuse for this be relevant I leave it to God and all judicious indifferent men knowing the progresse of matters these ten or twelve years and what ought to have been done and might have been done had men been willing to have it done for setling truth and removing things contrary to sound Doctrine as was undertaken by Covenant and Oath to the most high God to be done section 17 He shutteth up all thus SECT 58. Finally Christians take this answer to all that may be further objected To be enquiring is honourable but to be ever learning and never practising is dangerous It was an heavy curse that Jeremiah wished upon himself Jerem. 20. 17. It is an heavy curse indeed upon that poor soul concerning whom it may be said the womb of truth is alwayes great with him alwayes in pangs and throws with him but cannot bring forth Forsooth Sir you have soon done with it We must take this for answer to all that may be further objected against that you have been pleading for Stand not upon these Objections but fall to practice down with our Church Government and Churches to the ground this to my conception is the scope of these words else I confesse I understand them not sure this man has had a wonderfull conceit of what he has been saying in this debate that thinks we should all be so convinced hereby of the truth of that which he has been pleading for that tho we had twenty Objections moe against it then he has touched as indeed we have many yet we should step over all and do what he biddeth us I will crave leave to say it I think no man of understanding beside himself will have such a conceit of it As for us we tell him we are not now to be enquiring about the matter he has been Disputing against I mean whether it be truth or if the contrary maintained be him be truth We have declared before God Angels and the World that the Religion established in this Church by the mercy of God in Doctrine Worship and Government of the Church is the truth of God taught in his Word and we are sure it is so and as we are bound by the will of God and our vowes and Covenants to abide in the profession and practice of this truth So we trust that God will establish our hearts with his grace to abide therein As for such as are fallen away from it we lament their case that if they have been moved by any of these things presented by this Author that they should kythed so ready to be turned about with every wind of doctrine the God of grace awaken them to remember whence they have fallen to repent and do their first works Amen APPENDIX Wherein is Examined what is said in the forementioned letter of the new Independents of Aberdene for the Independent Congregationall and against the Presbyteriall way of Church-Government section 1 THese Authors usher in what they say on this purpose with this preface Touching Presbyterian Government indeed when thoughts of Questioning it were first born in upon us we did a long time suppresse them as tentations Because we had so solemnly though too implicitely engaged to the maintenance thereof Yet afterwards knowing that Truth cannot losse by a search we brought the maters to the ballance of the Sanctuarie And now after seeking of God as he was pleased to give us grace and using all helps which we could have we professe so far as we can see with reverence to precious and learned men of another judgement the Congregationall way comes nearer to the paterne of the Word then the Classicall forme And to us it appears c. section 2 Indeed when these thoughts were born in upon them they had just cause to look upon them as tentations and for ought that they have brought for justifying them here they may justly yet look upon them as tentations as we trust shall appear in the consideration thereof But here 1. It may be just mater of enquiry to others and haply may be of good purpose to themselves to reflect and consider when these thoughts began first to be born in upon them at least when they began to out any thing of them Did we hear any thing of such thoughts in them but since the late great revolution of State in this Kingdom after Worcester and how soone thereafter did we hear of them by some of the number although others thought fit to suppresse them some longer This may seem to be ground of searching of heart which is deceitfull above measure 2. It seemeth by the Authors own