Paule saith Euery man shall beare his owne burthen And Vengeaunce is mine and I will recompence saith the Lorde My heartie desire is of the Lorde that hee will for his sonne Iesus Christes sake be mercifull vnto vs all and forgiue vs all our sinnes and poure into vs his holy spirite that we may learne of him where hee sayth Learne of mee for I am meeke and lowly in heart Saint Peter sayth Christe hath suffered for vs leauing vs an ensample that wee should followe his steppes And Christe sayth Blessed are the mercifull for they shall obtaine mercie Againe Bee yee mercifull as your heauenly father is mercifull And further What so euer yee woulde that men shoulde doe to you euen so doe to them This is the lawes and the Prophetes c. Many other suche fruitfull and comfortable documentes we may read in the holie and sacred Scriptures ▪ which being well considred of we could not striue contend enuie belye nor persecute one an other of vs for as much as we are all creatures of one Gods creation It is written Malachie 2. c. Haue we not all one Father hath not one God made vs Why doth euery one of vs then despise his owne brother S. Paule saith Thou shalt loue thy neighbour as thy selfe If ye byte and deuoure one another take heede least ye be consumed one of an other If any doe erre for a time let euery one whome God hath deliuered out of errour doe his best according to the rule set downe to vs in the holy scriptures to help the burdened fraile weake and erring man hoping vpon the goodnesse of the Lord and waite when the Lord of his meere goodnesse and mercy will open the heart of the erring man for those causes are betweene God and his creature and God wil be auenged on all such as wilfully willingly do erre and haue a pleasure to remaine therin but he wil be mercifull vnto al those that haue a desire to reture and seeke him in true repentance It is not Christian like that one man should enuie belie and persecute an other for any cause touching conscience William Tindale compareth them to Antichrists disciples that do breake vp into the consciences of men compel them either to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holy Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues Againe he saith secrete sinnes pertaine to GOD to punish and open sinnes to the king He saith also A Christian man hath Christes spirite Nowe is Christ a mercifull king if therefore thou be not mercifull after the example of Christ then hast thou not his spirite If thou haue not Christes spirite then art thou none of his Romanes 8. nor hast any part with him If any man do willingly erre he shall haue euerlasting damnation for his rewarde at Gods hand vnlesse he do earnestly repent Is not that punishmēt sufficient which God hath ordeined but that one Christian must vexe torment belye and persecute an other Salomon saith Without doubt they doe erre that imagine wickednesse the enuious man the lyar the persecuter of his poore brother imagineth wickednesse therefore he is not voyde of errour I haue not read in any of the authors bookes y he hath striued enuied rayled at slandred belied or wished per secution to any man or hath named contumeliously any man but his writing striuing is against the nature of y sinne which hath borne so long dominion in the man c. And where you take exception as though the Authour were against the learned in the Scripture bicause he vseth in diuers places of his writings the false Scripture-learned Answere There is not any true meaning man which readeth the scripture that can of right take any exception thereat Can any true honest or plaine hearted man be offended with any godly and learned Preacher to heare him speake against and rebuke murder theft adulterie couetousnesse Idolatrie and such like Are we not al scripture learned that do read talke of the scripture Doth not euery man approue his sect or opinion as much as in him lyeth by the scripture Doth not this author also approue the testimonie of his writing by record of the scripture He speaketh not against those that do desire to walke according to the counsell of the scripture but against the false harts of the scripture learned that haue more desire to be talkers thereof then to do what the scripture requireth An exsample The Merchant that vseth his trade in balance weight and measure c. according to the rule of the scripture as ye may read Leui. 19. g. Deu. 25. c. Pro. 11. a. 16. b. 20. b. Eze. 45. c. and Miche 6. c. may well be taken for a true Merchant but he that vseth deceit fraude guile c. may be taken for a false Merchant yet both are merchants Our sauiour Christ saith Not all thei that say Lord Lord shal enter into the kingdome of heauen but hee that doth my fathers will which is in heauen Happie are they that heare the word of God and keepe it If ye loue me keepe my commandements Before God they are not righteous which heare the lawe but the doers of the lawe shall be iustified S. Iames accounteth him happie that is a doer of the work and not a forgetful hearer and see that ye be doers of the worde and not hearers only S. Iohn saith Blessed are they that doe his commandements that their power may be in the tree of life and may enter in through the gate into the citie The Preacher saith Let vs heare the conclusion of all things Feare God and keepe his commaundements for that toucheth all men Happily ye may obiect as some haue done that I haue communed with and say it is vnpossible to do and keep the cōmandements Answere What the scriptures last before recited doth require you haue heard and many more there might be alledged to the like effect wherof I haue here set downe some for an ensample if you please you may examine them by the Scripture as Exodus 20. a. Leuit 22. d. 26. a. Deut. 5. b. 10. c. 11. b. Iosu. 22. a. 3. Reg. 8. f. Psalme 78. a. Prouerb 2. a. 3. a. 4. a. 7. a. 19. b. Ezech. 18. Ecclesiast 2. c. Matth. 19. b. Iohn 15. b. 1. Corinth 7. d. 1. Timothie 6. c. 1. Ioh. 3. d. 5. n. Apoca 12 d. c. And S. Hierome saith Accurssed be he which saith God cōmaunded vnpossible thinges And againe he which saith y we can fulfil the cōmandments of God wout the grace of God accursed be he You say no one man dare once opē his mouth or put pen to paper to defend the author in England but you are therin deceiued there be y hath done both as some of your own familiar friends can testifie Neuerthelesse the authors own writings are
sufficient to answer for him were they weyed in the balance of equitie You terme the saide Familie simple howe much are they bound to laude the Lorde and to giue him most high thankes and praise that they are simple Moses saith Would God that all the Lordes people could prophesie and that the Lord would put his spirite vpon them So doe I wish from the bottome of my heart that all the Lordes people were simple concerning euill and malice then strife contention enuying backbiting lying persecuting for coÌ„scieÌ„ce cause theft â–ª murder whoredome dronkennesse Idolatrie and such like should not beare so great dominioÌ„ as it doth Is it an odious matter in your eyes to be simple I pray you peruse well these few sentences of Scripture here following The testimonie of the Lorde is pure and giueth wisedome to the simple God thou knowest my simplenesse my faultes are not hid from thee He taketh vp the simple out of the dust lifteth the poore out of the mire The Lorde preserueth the simple When thy worde goeth foorth it giueth light and vnderstanding euen vnto the simple A simple mans wisdome is despised and his wordes are not heard Timely in the morning do they arise to murder the simple and poore Reioyce thou greatly O daughter Sion be glad O daughter Hierusalem for loe thy King commeth vnto thee euen the righteous and Sauiour lowly and simple is he The poore simple sheepe that had a respect vnto me knewe thereby that it was the word of the Lord. You say the zeale of the Lordes house carried you so farre that you could not stay till you had published suche matter as came to your handes I for my part can not so conceiue that it was the Lordes zeale for there coulde not any one deale in such sort vse such spenches in writing as you haue done if he were carried by the zeale that the lord doth require It may rather be gathered that you had such a zeale as Iesus the sonne of Syrach writeth of where he saith Zeale and anger shorten the dayes of life and also There is nothing but wrath zeale fearefulnesse vnquietnesse feare of death ' rigours anger and strife c. But my desire is of the Lorde that he would plant the true zeale in vs all and then the loue v3 to loue God aboue all and our neighbour as our selues shoulde not be so despised and had in contempt with many as it is nowe in these dayes You say that Syr William Moore a worthy Iustice in Surrie had the examination of one or two of the Familie who vttered much matter which you are loth to write and yet in the end of your booke you haue set downe the Articles that were confessed before Syr William Moore the 28. of May 1561. by two of the Familie of loue You would haue it appeare to the readers as though there wer two at one time before a worshipfull Iustice of Peace and one or two at an other time before Syr William Moore and all those confessours were but two parties and one matter as you well knowe for you haue or haue had the written copie of the Articles with the names of those two parties that as it is said were the confessours of the saide Articles before Syr William Moore who was not at that time v3 the 28 of May. 1561. knowne or called by the name of Syr William Moore for he was but an Esquire What false and forged matter is set downe in the saide Articles and that the confessours of them are nor neuer were of the Familie of Loue I leaue to the iudgement of the same two parties and of all those that haue had haue or shall haue the cause in question and will consider of it with indifferencie Concerning the citizen your neighbour whome you doe so often name in your booke to discredit him as much as in you lyeth although you haue nâ— iust cause so to doe I leaue to the iudgement of all those discreet wise sober and honest citizens his neighbors who haue had at any time to deale with him there or else where and also to the discreete wise sober vertuous and godly learned that haue had at any time conference with him I hope you will from hence foorth take heede how you mâ—ke any such attempts to speake or write vpon report nor belye wrest ne peruert any authours writings for lyars shall haue their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone What Authour hath written any booke if one shoulde deale therewith as you haue done with this Authours writing but there might be founde many faultes c. To me as I suppose you are vnknown but if I should write what I haue heard of you and of Maister Bateman your furtherer in this your attempt vpon report happily you nor he wold scarse take it in good part It were good and according to the rule of the holy Scripture that all fault finders wold first looke into them selues that it be not saide Hypocrite first cast out the beame out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearely to plucke out the moâ—e that is in thy brothers eye c. I haue presumed to be so bolde as to certifie you my minde touching a fewe pointes of your booke hoping not lesse but you will take this my simple plaine and rude hand writing in good part although it lacke good Methode and doe wish that my time of leasure woulde haue permitted me to certifie you my minde in many other paintes of your booke but for as much as my time wil not serue thereto I am constrained to hold my self coÌ„tented Thus M. Rogers I bid you farwel wishing to you as to my self althogh there be many ways paths walked in of those that do trauell in religion â—reuer the right pathway be found which is to followe Christe Iesus our Sauiour in his footsteps yet I hope our God will in the end bring vs all into the same right path and that our sinnes shall be by and through the death passion and bloudsheading of our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ done away and be of the number of those that shall be set on the right hand to whoÌ„ our sauiour Iesus Christ when he coÌ„meth in his glory al the holy Angels with him shal say vnto Com ye blessed childreÌ„ of my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you froÌ„ the beginning of the world c. to the end I might through the power of the lord be one of the number of the elect haue I had my exercise in the Scriptures And to the end that I might be furtherer in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures I haue read diuers Authors who haue set too their helping hand to the opening of the Scripture so farre foorth as the Lorde gaue them vnderstanding thereof and although some haue in diuers pointes varied in iudgement Salomon saith
authoritie is taught and preached put vp your deriding termes for they best become your selues Nowe touching the Church you alledge H. N. in diuerse places of his Prophesie to say that that fleshly and wicked nature that lying being that hath oppressed the little ones murdered the holyones and spilt innocent bloud on the earth which hath béene a wicked whore vppon earth c who woulde euer iudge H. N. by these words to mean our corrupt wicked nature not rather a congregatiō or societie of mē per secuting the iust for how can our wicked nature be said to persecute to murder to spill bloud when this is done by the whole power knowledge and consente of men The wicked nature of man can neuer bee properly tearmed or called a whore And as I haue collected it to bee spoken againste the Church of Christ which we professe and you to be those holiones persecuted So in my iudgement herein I haue not falsified corrupted nor maliciously slan dered your Authour as you haue collected of me You say wee challenge our selues to be of the persecuting Church and so your selues haue beene in times past but nowe the Lorde hath made you sée and you are ashamed of that whorishe nature and you abhorre her hope by Christes might not only in you to be disclosed but abhorred reiected for euermore If this be spoken of our wicked nature can you reiect it cā you cast it of for euer We rather by y scripturs affirme y we may kéepe it vnder not to raigne in vs or beare rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs but vtterly to quench sinne or reiect it for euer the holy Ghost teacheth vs not Whosoeuer hath béene rightly scholed in Christes Church can by experience tell you that to kéepe vnder sinne by grace we may but to extinguishe the motions we can not and all those places of holy scripture which tende to the abolishing of sinne are rather as markes to ayme at or leuell at then to hit the pricke of perfection which shall neuer be in this life ▪ You meruel notwithstanding Touching Christs perfection we doubt not but stedfastly beléeue he was and is perfecte and hath fulfilled for vs all the law which God required of vs perfectly but we vtterly denie this to be wrought as you affirme in vs For neither doeth he worke this perfection in vs nor by vs but merely without vs in déed this is a principall difference betwéene you and vs and I doubt not but touching this argument you shall heare more hereafter It blemisheth ouer much Christes triumph ouer death and hell if wee shall also triumphe by strength in him Our triumph standeth not in doeing but in beléeuing in him which did The glorie of Christe Iesus his office and death is by this doctrins impaired darkened and shadowed as I haue often saide therefore better consider of it it sauoreth to much of presūption and pride attributing that to bee wrought in vs which is not and mightely herein you deceiue your selues and others His shape to be wrought in vs you affirme Paul. Cor. 1. 13. When that which is perfect is come thē that which is vnperfect shall bee done away but this shall not bee vntill mortalitie shall put on immortalitie and corruption incorruption In the same chapter 4. lines after the place recited ther shal you find S. Paule opening his meaning more fully when that perfection shal be wrought Saying Cor. 1. Cha ▪ 13. ver 12. For nowe we see through a glasse darkely but thē shal we see face to face nowe I knowe in parte but then shall I knowe as I am knowen c. doeth not S. Paul plainly meane that this perfection shal not be brought to passe in this life but in the life to come Who hath eyes to sée and beholdeth not these thinges You affirme vs to maintain sinne and that we are aduocates for sinne you take part with righteousnesse but with more modesty you might say that wee acknowledge with the Scriptures that sinne is still lurking in vs against which we haue dayly fight and combate notwithstanding our election and redemption and you affirme a perfection to be wrought in vs by Christe which the scriptures allowe not That christ is able to work such a work in vs we denie not for all thinges are to him possible but it is said Omnia quod voluit fecit in celo in terra He doth al things y he wil in heauen in earth but that it standeth with his wil reueiled in the scriptures we denie We are no mainteners of sinne we are humble acknowlegers of our sins imperfections You mention often y Christ must haue in vs a liuing shape by shape if you meane a perfecte fourme then wee deny any such shape or fourme to bee in vs but if you meane by shape to bee like minded to him therein we agrée with you as the scriptures teach But herein wee affirme that as it standeth with the weake condition of a mortall creature to be like that excellent creator of heauē and earth or like minded so our humaine frailtie must striue to attaine as néere the pricke as standeth with his good wil and pleasure to graunt vs You pray vs to suffer you in rest with your folishnesse I woulde you thought as you speake but your wordes are Ironia for you accompt it high wisedome although you tearm it foolishnes Your disquietnesse I neuer sought it is your amēdment it is your cōuersiō frō H. N. to Christ Iesus y I séek to bring you to In the matter of predestination you desire not to be taken so short for you say you allow it simply and reuerently in his kinde you like not to contende therein nor desperately to séeke libertie thereby yet I will put you in mind what you your selfe haue spoken thereof in your first letter saying your lycentious doctrin of predestination and frée electiō which is the cause of the fulnesse of prisons in Englande this day Now sée how you agrée with your self if you haue better cōsidered the matter I woulde be glad and giue the Lorde hartie thanks but if herein you speake as your manner is somtime affirming sometime denying then we say you are vnstable and wauering in your wayes Nowe whereas I affirmed to be without sinne is a priuiledge belonging onely to Christ Iesus our Lorde you say if the case be so then in vaine was this written vnto the congregations Let the same minde bee in you which was in Christ Iesus c. You further say we charge you that by your owne power without Christ this is brought to passe that sinne is subdued in you but we tell you plainely that this perfection that you speake of nor such a subduing of sinne as you meane is not wrought in vs neither standeth it with Christes good will to worke the same so effectually as you imagine Sinne is kept vnder and hath not
liue vnder the obedience of any magistrate be he neuer so wicked or vngodly the Turke the Pope or whosoeuer 5 Item that they allowe a kinde of shrifte worse then Popish For where the Pope requireth but confession of the act coÌ„mitted they will haue the thoughtes manifested and what our nature and inclination draweth vs vnto 6 Item they holde that the lawe of God is possible to be kept of euerie man that will indeuour himselfe thereto 7 Item that their authour H. N. is the true prophet of God sent to blowe the last trumpe of doctrine which shall be published vpon earth he only knoweth the true sence of the holie scripture 8 Item that his bookes are of equall authoritie with the holie scripture and are written with the same spirite 9 Item all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught or preached by any other then their Illuminate Elders in the Familie 10 Item they commend the Pope and Cardinals and allowe the Masse other their ceremonies The Bookes of H. N. which I haue seene 1 IN primis the first Epistle of H. N. 2 Item the first and second exhortation of H. N. 3 Item a diologue betweene the father and the sonne 4 Item the prophesie â—â— the spirite of loue 5 Item the published peace vppon earth 6 Item the declaration of the masse 7 Item their Euangelium Regni 8 Item the true and spirituall Tabernacle 9 Item the new and heauenly Ierusalem 10 Item a confession of their faith newly made 11 Item sundrie Epistles of H. N. Bookes which I heare of and haue not seene 1 ITem two bookes intituled the glasse of righteousnesse 2 Item a Booke called the holy Lamb. The displaying of the Familie of Loue. WHen I considered the duetie of a Christian to consist in the true profession of Christ Iesus his name diligently to walke in the pathes and wayes manifested in his word and to séeke to beautifie and inrich that beloued spouse the Church of Christ sanctified by his bloude I could not holde backe my penne to publish such matter as I sée daily to blemishe that beloued bride I meane the Church of Christ and to haue crept in by the subtiltie of Sathan our professed enimy Hauing therefore gathered diuers notes of that cankered error of H. N. taken out of his bookes which I haue to shewe I had thought to haue stayed my hande from further frauell but being vrged by diuers of Gods children to manifest this my labour to the end that some nouices of that errour might if it were possible be stayed from further plunging themselues into that gulfe of impietie How the wicked take occasion by these like errours to speake euil of Christs Church the eares of many godly doe heare Especially the Papists who speak and write â–ª and nothing is heard more common in their mouthes then these tearms Ye are at variaunce amongst your selues no vnitie of doctrine is obserued ye are of diuers opinions and sectes But how vntruely they impute these maters vnto the church of Christ to euerie member of the same Church it is euident For if we consider the wisedome of God in gouerning his we shal perceiue that in all ages when Christes Church did most flourish in perfectioÌ„ then was errour and heresies moste rife as may wel appéere euen in the Apostles times by the Nicolaitans Ebionites Cerinthus and others How busily did the fathers in the primitiue Church withstand such heresies as crept in euen in that happie time Tertullianus the Valentinians Augustine the Donatistes and Athanasâ—â—us the Arrians with infinit mâ— as by reading the Ecclesiasticall histories doeth well appeare Wherein what trauell hath béene taken what counsels called what Books written it were a wonder to behold But when corruption began by litle and litle to spread her selfe and got the face of a Church O how were dissentions appeased no varietie séemed to be where as in déede nothing was taught nor published but dreams deuises of men who leauing the certein and knowen wayes of y Lord reuealed in his word betoke theÌ„selues to depend vpoÌ„ the doctrines of men But if we descend into these last times wherein we liue and marke the wisedome of God in gouerning his Churche how he hath manifested his sonne Christ Iesus with an vncouered face to the great comfort of his children how the doting dreams of men are vanished how nothing but Christ Iesus is lifted vp with prayses as the immediate and only cause of our saluation how the true vse of workes is placed not as any cause but as the fruites of our instification And yet to sée how busily sathan enuying the prosperitie of Christes spouse endeuoureth daily in his meÌ„bers to trouble and disquiet this peaceable Sion by raysing vp diuers strange and monstrous heresies as the Anabaptistes the Free will men the Arrians the Pelagians and the Familie of Loue with many others which heresies the Diuell more bufily soweth nowe to disquiet the Churche then heretofore in y time of ignorance when he lulled the most part of y world in errours and dreames of men And séeing that euerie errour doeth seeke his cloake defence by the holie scripture yet we haue great cause to reioyce that onely by the scripture they are all put to silence and their heresies made manifest to all men as by the learned treatises of many graue men in this our age doeth manifestly appeare Of this last errour of H. N. the cheefe piller and vpholder of these errours of the Familie of Loue whereof by the Lordes assistance I minde to leaue behinde me such notes and bréefes â–ª as of certeintie I haue learned bothe of the person and also of his doctrine no man hitherto that I can learne hath endeuoured to confute them in writing Whose Bookes as they haue come to my hande I haue with diligence perused and by much conference with diuers of that Familie learned the doctrine which they followe And whereas they haue béene charged with diuers articles before the highe commissioners yet by no argument that I can learne doe I finde that they holde all the errours conteined in the same Notwithstanding so many as either by the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas or by conference I haue learned I haue set downe to the ende that some good man might be incouraged to confute so impious an authour and such horrible errours and perfourme in some learned worke that whiche my want and capacitie is not able to supply neither would I haue ventured to committe to writing suche rude and ignorant labour the matter béeing in déede â—etter then the handling but in my opinion it is better to haue course bread then none at all And because diuerse with whome I am familiarly acquainted are fallen into this errour of Henrie Nicholas I haue the rather for their sakes bent my studie to doe them good if it be possible And if these simple notes may haue that successe that I wishe I trust it
God and for that they alledge the wordes of S. Peter Submit you selues to the ordinaunces of the higher powers 24 They denie that Christ is equal with God the Father in his Godhead vppon this place of Scripture My Father is greater then I. 25 It is odious for them to say God the Sonne for they denie him to be God as is aforesaide 26 They denie the Trinitie scorning them that say God the Father God the sonne God the holy Ghost as though by saying these wordes they shoulde affirme to be thrée Gods. 27 They holde that no man should be baptised before he be of the age of xxx yeares And therefore haue diuers of them béene baptised at those yeares and vpwardes 28 They holde that euerie man ought first to be in an errour before hee canne come to the knowledge of the trueth 29 They say that as Christ raised the dead cleansed the lepre gaue sight to the blind and walked on the waters so doe they 30 They holde that heauen and hel are present in this worlde amongst vs and that there is none other for proofe thereof they alledge the xvij of Matthewe of Christes transfiguration that as the cloude remoued Peter did sée Elias and Moses so if the clowde were remoued away both heauen hell should be visible vnto vs. 31 They holde that they are bound to giue almes to none other persons but to those of their sect and if they do they giue their almes to the diuel 32 They holde that they ought not to burie the deade vppon this place of Scripture Let the dead burie the dead 33 They holde that they â–ª should so prouide that if any perish all should perishe so that euerie one of them should reléeue him with his goodes that decayeth 34 They holde that none ought to receiue the sacraments before he receiueth their whole ordinaunces as first he must be admitted with a kisse then his féete must be washed then handes laide on him and so receiued 35 They holde the Popes seruice this seruice now vsed in the Churche to be naught yet to be by them vsed as frée in the Lorde to whome nothing is vncleane 36 They hold that all men that are not of their congregation or that are reuolted from them to be dead 37 They holde that no Bishop or Minister should remaine still in one place but that they ought alwayes to be wandring from country to countrie 38 They holde that the Angels Raphael Gabriel and others were borne of a Woman 39 They hold that they ought not to say Dauids Psalmes as prayers for they are righteous and without sinne 40 They hold there ought to be no Sabbath day but that all should be like and for that they alledge The Sonne of of man is Lord ouer the Sabbath day 41 They hold that as God made heauen and earth by Iesus Christe vz. the word so did he it by them 42 They hold themselues to be Maries and say that Christ is come foorth in their fleshe euen as he came foorth of the virgin Marie 43 They holde that there was aworlde before Adams time as there is nowe 44 They hold y they ought to kepe scilence amongest them selues that the bertie they haue in the Lorde may not be espied of others 45 They holde that no man should be put to death for his opinion therefore they condemne Maister Cranmer and Maister Ridley for burning Ioane of Kent 46 They can not abide any exposition of Scriptures but their own conferring one place of Scripture with an other and so to say their mindes of it without any other bodies exposition 47 If any of them be conuented for his opinion and doeth denie the same by open recantation he taketh that to be a glorie vnto him as though he had suffered persecution in this doing and yet still inwardly mainteyning these opinions 48 They bragge verie muche of their owne sincere liues iustifying themselues saying Marke how purelie we liue 49 If they haue any thing to doe touching the ordering of their temporal thinges they must do it by aduise as to aske counsell of the Lorde vz. they must go to one of their Bishops or Elders and to aske of him counsell what he shall do and he must follow it 50 When they giue their almes there is a hat set by the Bishop or Elders vppon a table and then euery one of the congregation doth put vnder the hat that he is disposed to giue all which money commeth to the Bishops or Elders handes and so the same is by him or them distributed as they will but to whome none of the congregation knoweth 51 They haue certaine sleightes amongest them to answere any questions that shall be demaunded of them with deceiuing the demaundant as for example if one of them be demaunded howe he beléeueth in the Trinitie he will answere I am to learne of you so prouoketh the demandant to shew his opinion therein which done he will say then I do beléeue so by the which wordes he meaneth that he beléeueth the demaundant saith as he thinketh but not that he thinketh so 52 They do decrée all men to be infants that are vnder the age of thirtie yeres so that if they be demaunded whither Infantes ought to be baptised they answere yea meaning thereby that he is an infant vntill he attaine to those yeres at which time â—e ought to be baptised and not afore 53 Their Bishoppes Elders and Deacons do increase in riches and become wealthy but their disciples become poore and fall to beggerie I. R. To the reader SInce the imprinting of this booke of the displaying of the Familie of Loue I haue beene answered by diuerse letters but from whome they were sent it is not expedient that I declare for as much as I doe but guesse at the matter by the reading whereof you shal perceiue that some in the same Family are touched so neerely that they begin to kicke and spurne against the trueth and stirre vp themselues with all the poore skill they haue which God knoweth is but a little to defende both their Authour and his doctrine Many are the causes that haue moued me to publish these their priuate letters with my aunsweres there vnto Especially ij the one is that the Godly learned seeing wherein these of the Family are grieued touching our doctrine may plentifully in places conuenient confute their opinions and defend the puritie of doctrine which is taught An other cause is the bookes haue come into diuers mens hands who neuer heard of the family of loue which do imagine that I haue deuised this my self their errors are so grosse hauing no occasion so to doe Therefore I haue for my discharge let the worlde see that such there are as I haue manifested And some there are you may perceiue that can say somewhat to defende their authour and his doctrine Some wil not thinke it well done to make that common
which was written priuatly for conscience sake to whom I wholly agree in all thinges sauing heresies and especially those y are secreat therefore for my excuse I protest I could very wel haue kept these priuate conferences secret had not some Godly and learned ernestly moued me to the contrarie And if I had thought that these rude aunsweres shuld haue come abroad I would haue vsed some more diligence in penning them but since the family haue coppies hereof I minde not to add any thing least they exclame against me as you see they doe What part of our doctrine they finde fault with by perusing these leters thou shalt perceiue The Lord in mercy open their eyes that they may at the last beholde their backsliding from the right wayes of the Lorde our God manifested and bring them O Lorde againe into thy folde that we all may reuerence that good sheepeherde of our soules Christe Iesus Amen A Letter of the Familie to I. R. I Haue bestowed diligence M. Rogers in perusing the Booke which ye set out intituled The displaying of an horrible sect of grosse and wicked heretiques naming them selues the Familie of Loue with the liues of their Authours and what doctrine thei â—each in corners with yet certain Articles confessed by two of the Familie before Syr William Moore which when I went about to peruse I founde it so friuolous and voyde of good argument that I much maruelled what might be the cause why the authour deuised such vntruthes and chiefly bicause he put it in print at the instance of his friendes nay rather enimies for friends persuade honest things and enimies dishonest You write that the paines you tooke was for a priuate friend fallen into that errour and though you were moued to put it in print yet you were loath for diuers causes but chiefly bicause your conscience tolde you that the eyes of the worlde should by that meanes see your manifest vntrue reportes for falshoode would haue corners and feareth the light If it were only ignoraunce it were the better to be borne withal but indeede as it seemeth it is come out of malicious enuie Many goodly shewes can not colour the matter for it is a custome for men for good maners sake to alledge great wants to performe their intents and yet will aduenture their follies with hazard of good or euill successe A rude stile is neuer hurt to an honest cause for the honestie beautifieth al deformities of rudenesse But for the bragge to haue some other of more iudgement to replie I verily think that no honest man of any wit will assay to defend so vnhonest attemptes least he be drawne in by that means with this Author I. R. to be found foole-hardy or rashhastie perfourming therein as well by writing as by deede vncharitable iâ—ueighings impugnings oâ— that which you confesse you are not acquainted withall and for that cause you are rightly termed of some for slaundrers For in deede many knowing the people slandered to be honester then the slaunderers call in doubt whether those sayings might be true which are vitered against them Nowe ye shall see this good childes care as out of dutie to Gods Church euen as blinde as bolde steppes in first to reprehend and condemne the loue of God and Christe which is the holy Ghoste euen out of a zeale to aduaunce his purpose whereby he might shewe the fruites of a iustifying faith and bicause he hath long time looked about and yet findeth none that wil be so maddas to enter with him see now howe he can according to his blindnesse reproue others not seeing that they out of more modestie for certaine causes forbeare to write least that they with like rashnesse should enter into like follie This Familie of Loue saith he is muche increased within many Shieres of this realme which he rueth much who sâ—eth not this his greate blindnesse and follic Could any man I am bold herein with you M. Rogers râ—e the prosperitie of the housholde of God vnlesse he him selfe were of the houshold of the diuel and who would speake so shamefully or rather shamelesly againste Gods Ministers as you doe were he not one of the Ministers of the diuell I pray you consider the ground whereon you lay your foundation is against one H. N whome you neuer knewe nor vnderstoode of For that I haue heard thereof truely it is not the signification of any mans name But as Christ gaue out his name by two Caracters or letters A. and â— â–ª so I see not 〈…〉 he that is to say Christe may be as well all the other letters betwéene them two in as much as he is the first and the last But it is very farre from M. Rogers minde to looke â–ª so narrowly into the matter I remember in the Apo. 2. it is written To him that ouercoÌ„meth will I giue to eate Manna that is hidde and will giue him a white stone and in that stone â— newe name written which no man knoweth sauing he that receiueth iâ— Now if he that hath inueighed against H. N â–ª hath in the omnipâ—tent power of the most highest ouercome in that manner as is aforesaide then can he knowe this name Otherwise let him all his adherents for euer hereafter be silent least they seeming to teache GOD what he hath to doe perish according to the witnessing of the Prophete Beholde ye despisers wonder and be confounded for I doe a worke in your dayes which ye shall not beleeue albeit any one should tell it you I must also a little put you in minde of your impudent dealings You say you haue read a confession of their faith newly made which neither you nor any of your adhereÌ„ts can in any worde iustly reproue why shoulde you then vnlesse it were out of cankered enuie according to your forefathers nature and accustomed maner so standerously report of vs as that we are ashamed to acknowledge our beleefe You affirme also that much more false doctrine then you haue set out in that booke is taught among the people which to confute you complaine your selfe to be vnable to performe for the lacke of learning neuerthelesse you will giue vs a taste of this doctrine to giue the children of God to beware thereof yet many bookes you say are abroade which you haue not seene and againe some you haue seene but yet had no leasure to peruse for the vse of the people is not to let any but their owne companie to see their bookes neither wil they confer or talke in any points of doctrine but with such as them selues Nowe I pray you â—ee what a Caueat you put in to excuse your malice in that you haue not seene some of the bookes and yet those some which you haue seene you had no time to peruse sufficiently neither could you conferre with the people for their subtilties cause Loe here is like to proceede some good stuffe I warrant you For how can you
dominion in vs it raigneth not in vs we are not seruauntes to sinne this the scripturs teach in many places but that we shall quench it vtterly or subdue if with all the motions thereof the scriptures teach vs no such doctrine being rightly vnderstoode Looke I pray you what that holy vessell saint Paul spake of himselfe after he was regenerate Romaines 7. verse 14. I am carnal sold vnder sinne for I allowe not that which I doe For what I would that doe I not but what I hate that do I. It is not I that doe it but sinne that dwelleth in me Againe verse 23. I delight in the law of God concerning the inwarde man but I see an other law in my members rebelling against the lawe of my minde and leading mee captiue vnto the lawe of sinne which is in my members When he entred farre into the consideratiō of this his frailtie he exclaymed said verse 24. A wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me frō the body of this death And in these extreame considerations and battell which we haue with sinne cōtinually euen vntil death make an end saint Paul by the spirite of God doth plainely arme Gods children and sheweth the remedie in like cōflicts saying I thank god through Iesus Christ our Lord c this is brought to passe by him that sinne is not imputed vnto vs But as Dauid saide Blessed is the man whose sinnes are couered And this is wrought only without vs not in vs as you imagine So y our battell is continual and neuer ended in vs vntill we be dissolued and at rest with Christ Iesus contrary to your assertion You sée no cause you say that we shoulde be enimies to so good a doctrine as you professe If your doctrine were good and agréeable to the holy scriptures we woulde embrace it but because it is contrarie there vnto we reiect it To forsake that false sinfull nature with you we simply agrée but with the Poet we say Naturam expellas furca tamen vsque recurret To be at defiance there with and bidde battell against it we agrée but to conquer it to kill it or subdue it vtterly in this life that we deny That God can doe this by his powre in vs we denie not but that he will do it in vs as you affirme the scriptures allowe not of For it standeth not with the glorious office of Christ Iesus that such perfection and such a conquest of sinne should be wrought in vs but that we féeling our miseries our wants our weakenesse◠might sue by peticion in earnest prayer for strength for mercy for deliuery which all the Godly in Christ his church haue euer done For we are neuer nearer vnto our God nor neuer more accepted with him then when we feele sinne as a burthen or loade lye heauely vpon vs nor neuer further of then when by illusion of sathans persuasion we imagin sinne to be quenched or conquered All such as ouercome in the battell you say shall knowe the name written in the white stone mencioned by Iohn You say further that such as haue no lust to ouercome that earthly sinfull nature but haue more lust to take part therewith knowe nothing thereof although they boast of their knowledge or fréedome neuer so much This knowledge therefore you would conclude to be in you and not in vs Your knoweledge we enuie not nor your séeking to serue the Lord vprightly For our whole care studie minde is bent to do the same and we pray you hartely to ioyne your selues to vs that you and we may serue the Lorde our God as he hath commaunded and not H. N. and his precepts Looke into the holy bookes of our God and deale not with the darke riddles of H. N. Set not vp his bookes in your mindes so highly The Scriptures are our comfort and our stay without H. N. He exerciseth a greate Popedome among you You had rather speake and vse his phrases not found in holy scripture then content your selfe with the phrases of the holy Ghost You often mencion these tearmes the lying being the vpright fréedome Godded with God the newest day the louely being of the loue c. Are these to be founde in the holy Scripture or are they not deuised by H. N. to bring admiration to his doctrine by straunge and vnaccustomed speach If the loue of God be in you as you woulde haue vs beléeue it is loue the Lorde Iesus and his holy worde and let H. N. with new tearmes and phrases goe Belieue not that God hath wrought in him any such a worke as you pretend examine his doings and sayings better you wil credit nothing that is spoken against him be it neuer so true you except it as lyes and heresies what soeuer testimony his neighbours famyliers who knewe him long vppon their oth shall affirme but according to your conceiued opinion you like him you imbrace him you onely credit his testimonies dislyking others which if you continue as you begin there is neither hope nor helpe nor conference that can doe you good vntill the Lorde shake away the mist of darknesse which ouer shadoweth your eyes through the doctrine of H. N. that you cannot beholde the bright beames of Christ his glorious gospell Your authors doctrine is not sufficiently knowen vnto some of you the fragments whereof you are but meanly acquited with the secreat part of his purpose I doubt as yet is not extant and more of his works are abroad then are come to your handes therefore for the loue of God looke better into his minde and credite not his bare sayings without warrant of holy scripture neither beléeue that almightie God hath wrought in him any such extraordinary power as is imagined The cause the moued me to write these thinges is a little booke came to my handes of late called Mans falling away his comming againe and Lordlynesse In the first section you shall finde this written worde for word H. N. his words See and marke ye beloued in the beginning when god made al things wel then was the Lorde one Lorde of his kingdome and one God of his workes there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one and had in all one order being and nature for God was all that the man was and man was all that God was Beloued when God looked on the man which he had made according to the like being of his godhed then looked he vpon him selfe as the same clerenesse of his liuing godhed Likewise when the man looked vpon his God his ientle clene vnspotted manhode in all full comlinesse in all honestie fayrenesse in all fashion and being according to the same Godhed so this was al one God the man. I pray you loke into this doctrin whiche your Authour H. N. teacheth examine it by thy holy scriptures and iudge rightly therein whether this can by any colour of
say but at aduenture of the things which you neueÌ„r heard ne sawe I would you had played an honest mans part and had vsed but equall weight and measure not haue contrarie to your promise where you said you wil alledge the Authors words and neither adde ne diminish taken here three or foure linâ—s and then passe ouer tenne or twelue and then againe take two lines and againe passe ouer sixe lines take halfe a line c. and so make a sentence thereof Thus is your doings found out of so many as haue coÌ„pared your allegations with the bookes of the Authour Notwithstanding all this you protest that you are voyde of malice in your vntrue booke seeming rather to pitie the poore seduced people then otherwise intending enuie You promise likewise to put downe nothing wherof you haue not sufficient warrant by certaine in the Duche Church but sure I am not of Christes Church for as much as they exercise not their moutheâ— with Iyes but you haue heard so and therefore it is so men of good credite say so I had rather heare an honest poore mans report truly spoken then a riche credible man 's that is a lyar and it is well knowne to some of the Duche Church that your credible men are lyars yet can you be content to fauour their reportes And as touching the cyting of H. N. his owne words without adding or diminishing I am ashamed of your disorderly dealings therein that shall so appeare in the aunswere to the booke as ye shal be proued therein as in y rest a falsister of both The speach which you pretend to haue had with many of the company I dare affirme it to be a great vntruth is but a visard as you haue saide of them to couer your malice withall I would shame would let you tell the truth then should you say as it is that your mate E. L. one of your own familie hath prompt you forward in these matters especially against Christopher Vitall a man whose honest life and conuersation you were neuer able to come nearâ— nor shall vnlesse you mend your wordes deedes weightes measures and waxes But will you see one notable matter which you haue gathered out of this Authors wordes more that is The truth hath not bene taught in the world since the Apostles time but nowe by the Familie the Scripture affirmeth that Christ the onely trueth hath saide My kingdome is noâ— of this world and howe can the trueth be taught where the kingdome is not for it hath bene euer hid from the worlde and her wise but yet alwayes manifested amongst the outseuered ones from this world And euen as the enimies of the same trueth haue alwayes martyred Gods holye ones euen so nowe woulde suche worldlings as you are doe had you power thereto And this I assure you that the very same doctrine which those Martyres haue taught the same doth H. N. teach but you say truth seeketh no corners see your appliment herein Christe commandeth his disciples saying When they persecute you in one citie flee vnto an other we read that Christe also many times went from place to place to auoyde such your forefathers the Scribes and Pharisees who sought his life And I pray you did not Iacob flee from his brother Esau Noe from the whole worlde Lot from the Sodomites Elias from all men Dauid from Saule with infinite more examples Then howe doe you approue your matter It can belike be no truth except you allowe it to be true a sound consequent Likewise you say vntruely citing the wordes that the Illuminate Elders can not erre nor sin nor dare before the simple ones in Christes Churche approue their Authours doctrine you haue I am sure good warrant to seuer the Illuminate Elders in the godly wisedome and holy vnderstanding out of the Church of Christ. But I haue better to proue that you are not thereof You disallowe others of bosting bicause you might boast alone is the suffering with Christ to rayle vpon his true meÌ„bers or else in patieÌ„ce to take vp our crosse and so suffer till by his suffering in vs we be deliuered iustified but I dare say you vnderstand me not now from sinne death diuill and hell but your wordes are no slaunders as you thinke else woulde you season them with truth for very shame For were it permitted that companie with indifferencie to auouch the trueth of their cause as it is permitted you and your companie slaunderously to blaspheme you shoulde then bee shewed in your right colours Ye say also that their Rabies or Elders haue recanted Arianisme at Paules crosse as well might you be charged with other matter c. But your obiection is false witnesse my Lorde of Canterburie that nowe is and yet more were to be saide but the companie hopeth your conuertioÌ„ although at this present your brethren in Christ for their good faithes cause they haue in your licentious doctrine of predestination and free election fill all the prisons almost in England but what reason haue I to charge you therewith but forsooth to put you in minde that you looke to your selfe and yours before you reproue others which mee thinketh is but reason You giue a glaunce also at the greatest house in this realme which you wish were cleare of such errours but put vp your bolt I aduise you whether that house hath auctoritie to ouerlooke you and your adherents that may you knowe hereafter Moreouer you say you could if you listed to be a blab tell out many discentions among them who yet you confesse will not in their best thinges make you or any other acquainted much lesse in things against them selues but it is true like the rest all this is but to make your speaches wonderfull and your modestie greater then it is You forget thereby many Protestants I thinke excelling you in vnderstanding in Rome Spaine Italie and other places vnder the Bishop of Romes inquisitioÌ„ which holde it good pollicie to defend them selues their consciences in keeping them from such Tyranny Will you not allowe to others as you gladly challeÌ„ge to your self â–ª then we must say you are vnequall in your doings But wil you see the most egregious vntrueth that can be spoken by this newe shamelesse writer He alledgeth Iohn Leydon and Snypper Dolling at Munster in Westfalia which were duely punished for Anabaptisme by the gouernours and Lordes of that time and place as appeareth by many writers as Iohn Sleydon and others And because these men were Hollanders and as he affirmeth schollers of Dauid George therefore H. N. must be belike by that reason one of that confederatie For although many learned writers do affirme their matter to be Anabaptisme yet this man will haue it the Familie of Loue. Fulwell doe you open your malice herein as in the rest with your forefathers who saide that Christ had the diuell and was a wine bibber a companion of