the_o creature_n and_o express_o say_v it_o be_v not_o absurd_a that_o holy_a man_n be_v call_v our_o redeemer_n after_o a_o sort_n finem_fw-la and_o more_o of_o the_o like_a stuff_n we_o shall_v meet_v with_o before_o we_o part_v yet_o again_o your_o religion_n as_o it_o depress_v god_n so_o it_o exalt_v the_o creature_n i_o will_v instance_n but_o in_o one_o thing_n and_o that_o be_v your_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n by_o the_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n a_o doctrine_n which_o s._n paul_n affirm_v give_v unto_o a_o man_n matter_n of_o boast_v and_o glory_v rom._n 3._o 27._o where_o be_v boast_v then_o it_o be_v exclude_v by_o what_o law_n of_o work_n nay_o but_o by_o the_o law_n of_o faith_n &_o rom._n 4._o 2._o for_o if_o abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o work_n he_o have_v whereof_o to_o glory_v next_o you_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v the_o great_a design_n and_o intent_n of_o religion_n to_o discourage_v and_o beat_v down_o sin_n which_o your_o religion_n do_v exceed_o encourage_v by_o your_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n in_o absolution_n and_o indulgence_n in_o my_o acquaintance_n i_o have_v know_v several_a papist_n that_o have_v wonderful_o encourage_v themselves_o in_o their_o wicked_a way_n from_o this_o consideration_n especial_o when_o easter_n draw_v near_o because_o they_o know_v they_o shall_v very_o sudden_o be_v shrive_v and_o absolve_v and_o be_v as_o they_o say_v as_o sound_v and_o clean_o as_o when_o they_o come_v first_o into_o the_o world_n i_o have_v know_v also_o divers_a of_o our_o loose_a protestant_n that_o have_v turn_v to_o your_o religion_n that_o they_o may_v have_v great_a liberty_n for_o and_o the_o security_n in_o sin_n and_o in_o my_o conscience_n if_o i_o will_v let_v my_o lust_n choose_v a_o religion_n for_o i_o they_o will_v present_o lead_v i_o to_o your_o religion_n and_o so_o again_o your_o religion_n do_v not_o at_o all_o promote_v serious_a holiness_n but_o the_o soul_n and_o spirit_n of_o it_o be_v dwindle_v away_o into_o mere_a formality_n what_o can_v be_v of_o more_o pestilent_a consequence_n to_o true_a holiness_n than_o to_o tell_v a_o man_n that_o the_o say_n so_o many_o paternosters_a or_o ave-maries_n though_o it_o may_v be_v he_o be_v talk_v or_o gaze_v about_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o his_o devotion_n will_v procure_v he_o acceptance_n with_o god_n be_v it_o true_a that_o your_o great_a and_o devout_a doctor_n suarez_n say_v that_o be_v it_o not_o essential_a to_o prayer_n that_o a_o man_n shall_v think_v of_o what_o he_o say_v pop._n it_o be_v true_a he_o do_v say_v so_o in_o his_o book_n of_o prayer_n prot._n then_o i_o confess_v your_o religion_n have_v the_o advantage_n of_o we_o for_o a_o man_n may_v do_v two_o business_n at_o once_o it_o have_v set_v i_o much_o against_o your_o religion_n since_o i_o understand_v that_o you_o turn_v that_o great_a doctrine_n of_o repentance_n into_o a_o mere_a formality_n what_o a_o sad_a doctrine_n be_v it_o that_o your_o great_a master_n teach_v that_o repentance_n be_v not_o necessary_a at_o all_o time_n but_o only_o on_o holiday_n as_o some_o of_o your_o author_n say_v only_o once_o in_o a_o year_n that_o be_v at_o easter_n as_o other_o nay_o indeed_o once_o in_o all_o his_o life_n and_o that_o in_o danger_n of_o death_n as_o navarre_n and_o cajetan_a what_o a_o encouragement_n be_v this_o to_o wickedness_n to_o tell_v man_n that_o a_o thousand_o of_o their_o sin_n be_v venial_a which_o though_o not_o repent_v of_o will_v not_o exclude_v they_o from_o the_o favour_n of_o god_n and_o from_o salvation_n but_o i_o will_v rake_v no_o far_o into_o this_o kennel_n i_o think_v this_o may_v serve_v turn_n to_o let_v you_o see_v that_o i_o have_v warrant_v to_o say_v that_o your_o religion_n contradict_v the_o design_n and_o end_n of_o all_o religion_n v._o the_o five_o consideration_n that_o set_v i_o against_o your_o religion_n be_v the_o desperate_a issue_n that_o you_o be_v drive_v to_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o your_o cause_n as_o for_o example_n in_o the_o great_a point_n of_o infallibility_n i_o observe_v your_o learned_a doctor_n be_v beat_v out_o of_o all_o their_o former_a assertion_n and_o opinion_n you_o have_v be_v drive_v from_o scripture_n to_o the_o father_n from_o they_o to_o the_o pope_n from_o he_o to_o a_o council_n and_o thence_o to_o the_o pope_n with_o a_o council_n and_o as_o a_o further_a sign_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n the_o jesuit_n be_v bring_v to_o that_o exigence_n that_o they_o be_v force_v to_o affirm_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v infallible_a in_o matter_n of_o fact_n which_o be_v confess_o a_o new_a upstart_n and_o indeed_o monstrous_a opinion_n and_o yet_o those_o pierce_a wit_n see_v their_o cause_n can_v be_v defend_v without_o it_o and_o other_o see_v the_o vanity_n of_o all_o their_o former_a pretence_n have_v be_v force_v to_o resolve_v all_o into_o the_o present_a church_n testimony_n 5._o so_o for_o the_o point_n of_o idolatry_n you_o be_v drive_v to_o those_o strait_n that_o you_o can_v excuse_v yourselves_o from_o idolatry_n but_o by_o such_o pretence_n as_o will_v excuse_v both_o jewish_a and_o gentile_a idolater_n and_o one_o of_o your_o able_a champion_n be_v bring_v to_o this_o plunge_n that_o he_o be_v force_v to_o affirm_v that_o some_o idolatry_n be_v lawful_a valentiâ_fw-la i_o may_v instance_n in_o very_a many_o other_o but_o i_o forbear_v vi_o a_o six_o consideration_n be_v take_v from_o the_o partiality_n of_o your_o religion_n that_o religion_n which_o be_v from_o god_n be_v doubtless_o agreeable_a to_o the_o nature_n and_o will_n of_o god_n but_o so_o be_v not_o your_o religion_n for_o it_o be_v guilty_a of_o that_o respect_n of_o person_n which_o scripture_n every_o where_o deny_v to_o be_v in_o god_n act._n 10._o 34._o rom._n 2._o 11._o job_n 34._o 19_o pop._n how_o be_v our_o religion_n guilty_a of_o respect_n of_o person_n prot._n i_o may_v show_v it_o in_o many_o thing_n but_o i_o will_v confine_v myself_o to_o one_o particular_a and_o that_o be_v in_o point_n of_o indulgence_n the_o soul_n of_o all_o that_o die_v in_o venial_a sin_n be_v doom_v to_o those_o terrible_a pain_n of_o purgatory_n there_o to_o continue_v none_o know_v how_o long_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o great_a unhappiness_n of_o those_o christian_n that_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n that_o have_v be_v multitude_n of_o they_o fry_a in_o purgatory_n to_o this_o day_n and_o be_v like_a to_o be_v so_o as_o long_o as_o the_o world_n last_v whereas_o those_o that_o live_v near_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n must_v needs_o have_v a_o far_o short_a abode_n there_o so_o man_n be_v punish_v with_o continuance_n of_o their_o torment_n mere_o for_o the_o circumstance_n of_o time_n of_o their_o birth_n but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n i_o aim_v at_o from_o these_o pain_n of_o purgatory_n there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o deliver_v a_o man_n but_o by_o indulgence_n and_o these_o indulgence_n must_v be_v buy_v off_o with_o money_n and_o wealthy_a man_n may_v buy_v off_o those_o corporal_a pain_n which_o the_o rascal_n herd_n must_v suffer_v without_o bail_n or_o mainprize_n and_o turn_v they_o into_o a_o fine_a of_o the_o purse_n so_o i_o see_v it_o be_v not_o without_o reason_n that_o solomon_n say_v money_n answer_v all_o thing_n i_o have_v hear_v that_o your_o tax_n of_o the_o apostolical_a chancery_n put_v forth_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o church_n where_o there_o be_v a_o price_n put_v upon_o all_o indulgence_n and_o upon_o all_o kind_n of_o sin_n have_v this_o expression_n diligent_o note_n that_o these_o grace_n of_o indulgence_n be_v not_o give_v to_o the_o poor_a because_o they_o be_v not_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v comfort_v matrimoniali_fw-la by_o which_o i_o see_v that_o if_o st._n peter_n himself_o shall_v rise_v from_o the_o dead_a and_o come_v to_o his_o successor_n with_o his_o old_a tone_n silver_n and_o gold_n have_v i_o none_o if_o he_o be_v a_o thousand_o peter_n he_o must_v into_o purgatory_n without_o mercy_n i_o be_o tell_v that_o another_o of_o your_o author_n augustinus_n de_fw-fr ancona_n a_o author_n of_o great_a note_n with_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o indulgence_n be_v for_o the_o relief_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v the_o pope_n and_o their_o prelate_n indigency_n which_o 3._o be_v not_o relieve_v by_o a_o willingness_n to_o give_v which_o be_v all_o that_o any_o poor_a man_n can_v pretend_v to_o but_o by_o the_o gift_n itself_o it_o seem_v your_o church_n be_v not_o of_o god_n mind_n for_o if_o there_o be_v a_o willing_a mind_n he_o accept_v it_o for_o the_o deed_n 2_o cor._n 8._o 12._o and_o a_o little_a after_o as_o i_o be_o tell_v he_o say_v as_o to_o the_o
the_o council_n of_o trent_n itself_o when_o one_o will_v expect_v they_o shall_v have_v grow_v wise_a though_o not_o better_a prove_v the_o unequal_a power_n of_o pope_n bishop_n and_o priest_n from_o rom._n 13._o 1._o the_o power_n that_o be_v be_v ordain_v of_o god_n that_o be_v digest_v into_o order_n i_o hope_v ere_o you_o have_v do_v you_o will_v put_v forth_o a_o entire_a comment_n upon_o the_o whole_a bible_n which_o i_o assure_v you_o will_v be_v the_o rare_a book_n that_o ever_o see_v the_o light_n but_o further_a i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o you_o how_o your_o church_n come_v to_o have_v this_o true_a and_o certain_a sense_n of_o scripture_n have_v she_o it_o by_o revelation_n or_o inspiration_n pop._n no_o we_o pretend_v to_o no_o such_o thing_n but_o she_o come_v to_o know_v it_o by_o the_o diligent_a use_n of_o mean_n by_o prayer_n by_o read_v and_o compare_v scripture_n by_o consult_v ancient_a interpreter_n analogy_n of_o faith_n the_o coherence_n etc._n etc._n and_o even_o the_o pope_n himself_o when_o he_o set_v forth_o his_o translation_n of_o the_o bible_n he_o profess_v to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o he_o do_v it_o in_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n and_o by_o the_o same_o help_n that_o other_o translator_n do_v that_o be_v by_o advise_v with_o learned_a man_n and_o consult_v ancient_a copy_n and_o the_o like_a infallibiliy_v prot._n very_o good_a then_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o why_o a_o protestant_a minister_n be_v oft_o time_n both_o a_o learneder_n and_o better_a man_n than_o the_o pope_n may_v not_o as_o certain_o hit_v upon_o the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o the_o pope_n himself_o pop._n the_o reason_n be_v plain_a because_o the_o pope_n be_v guide_v by_o the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o god_n spirit_n prot._n you_o ought_v not_o to_o rant_v at_o this_o height_n until_o you_o have_v solid_o answer_v what_o our_o divine_n have_v write_v against_o this_o infallibility_n and_o i_o hear_v before_o the_o woeful_a weakness_n of_o your_o argument_n for_o it_o be_v to_o i_o the_o vain_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n to_o pretend_v a_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n infallible_o to_o guide_v such_o man_n as_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a have_v not_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n in_o they_o be_v as_o you_o confess_v many_o of_o your_o pope_n and_o bishop_n be_v sensual_a not_o have_v the_o spirit_n and_o have_v apparent_o no_o other_o spirit_n in_o they_o but_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o world_n the_o spirit_n that_o lust_v to_o envy_v and_o all_o wickedness_n but_o since_o you_o pretend_v the_o scripture_n be_v so_o dark_a i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o what_o be_v the_o end_n for_o which_o god_n design_v the_o scripture_n sure_o i_o think_v it_o be_v for_o our_o understanding_n my_o bible_n tell_v i_o that_o whatsoever_o thing_n be_v write_v aforetime_o be_v write_v for_o our_o learning_n rom._n 15._o 4_o but_o if_o you_o say_v true_a it_o seem_v god_n mean_v only_o to_o put_v forth_o riddle_n god_n law_n be_v design_v by_o he_o for_o a_o light_n and_o that_o even_o to_o the_o simple_a psal._n 19_o 7_o 8_o 9_o and_o 119_o 105._o and_o in_o a_o word_n the_o gospel_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o saint_n paul_n pronounce_v it_o be_v hide_v from_o none_o but_o they_o that_o perish_v 2_o cor._n 4._o 3_o 4._o and_o saint_n luke_n write_v his_o gospel_n that_o theophilus_n and_o with_o he_o other_o christian_n may_v know_v the_o certainty_n of_o those_o thing_n wherein_o they_o have_v be_v instruct_v luke_n 1._o 4._o and_o general_o every_o discreet_a man_n that_o write_v a_o book_n write_v it_o so_o as_o it_o may_v be_v understand_v especial_o if_o it_o be_v for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o ignorant_a as_o well_o as_o the_o learned_a which_o the_o scripture_n assure_o be_v tell_v i_o then_o i_o pray_v you_o why_o shall_v god_n write_v his_o mind_n so_o dark_o and_o doubtful_o as_o you_o know_v who_o oracle_n be_v say_v to_o be_v deliver_v be_v it_o because_o god_n can_v not_o write_v plain_o and_o want_v the_o gift_n of_o utterance_n or_o because_o he_o will_v not_o pop._n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o it_o be_v certain_a the_o scripture_n be_v full_a of_o obscure_a place_n prot._n i_o do_v not_o deny_v this_o but_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v obscure_o deliver_v in_o one_o place_n be_v more_o clear_o deliver_v in_o another_o and_o those_o dark_a place_n general_o be_v about_o prophecy_n and_o such_o other_o thing_n the_o knowledge_n of_o which_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o for_o necessary_n the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a and_o i_o be_o tell_v that_o divers_a of_o your_o author_n acknowledge_v so_o much_o be_v that_o true_a pop._n i_o confess_v costerus_n have_v this_o expression_n that_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o all_o christian_n be_v plain_o and_o clear_o deliver_v in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o some_o other_o of_o our_o doctor_n say_v as_o much_o 4._o much_o see_v nullity_n of_o rom._n faith_n chap._n 7._o sect_n 4._o prot._n it_o can_v be_v nothing_o but_o the_o evidence_n of_o the_o truth_n which_o force_v such_o a_o acknowledgement_n from_o its_o great_a adversary_n therefore_o let_v this_o go_v and_o let_v i_o hear_v what_o further_o you_o have_v to_o say_v against_o our_o religion_n pop._n i_o find_v you_o be_v a_o obstinate_a heretic_n and_o settle_v upon_o the_o lees_n and_o therefore_o it_o will_v be_v needless_a to_o discourse_v further_o with_o you_o if_o any_o thing_n can_v have_v convince_v you_o sure_o the_o argument_n i_o have_v offer_v will_v have_v do_v it_o for_o i_o assure_v you_o i_o have_v pick_v out_o the_o strength_n and_o marrow_n of_o the_o catholic_n cause_n in_o the_o point_n we_o have_v discourse_v and_o since_o i_o see_v you_o turn_v a_o deaf_a ear_n to_o my_o counsel_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o over_o as_o incorrigible_a prot._n you_o see_v i_o have_v hear_v you_o with_o great_a patience_n and_o give_v you_o all_o the_o freedom_n you_o can_v desire_v now_o i_o have_v one_o request_n to_o you_o that_o you_o will_v allow_v i_o the_o same_o privilege_n with_o patience_n to_o hear_v and_o if_o you_o can_v answer_v what_o i_o shall_v object_v against_o your_o religion_n pop._n with_o a_o very_a good_a will_n i_o will_v meet_v you_o here_o to_o morrow_n at_o this_o time_n so_o at_o present_a adieu_o the_o second_o conference_n prot._n well_o meet_v sir_n i_o see_v you_o be_v as_o good_a as_o your_o word_n and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v allow_v i_o as_o much_o freedom_n and_o patience_n as_o i_o do_v you_o pop._n i_o shall_v willing_o do_v it_o therefore_o speak_v free_o and_o so_o will_v i_o and_o if_o truth_n be_v on_o your_o side_n let_v it_o prevail_v prot._n i_o shall_v divide_v my_o discourse_n into_o two_o part_n 1._o some_o general_n consideration_n which_o indeed_o do_v very_o much_o set_v i_o against_o your_o religion_n 2._o i_o shall_v examine_v the_o ground_n of_o your_o principal_a point_n of_o doctrine_n for_o to_o meddle_v with_o all_o will_v be_v needless_a if_o your_o pillar_n fall_v the_o rest_n can_v stand_v for_o the_o first_o there_o be_v several_a weighty_a consideration_n against_o your_o religion_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o they_o in_o order_n the_o first_o general_n consideration_n be_v this_o 1._o that_o your_o church_n decline_v all_o judgement_n but_o her_o own_o and_o make_v herself_o judge_n in_o she_o own_o cause_n you_o do_v not_o allow_v scripture_n to_o be_v judge_n nor_o the_o ancient_a father_n for_o all_o your_o talk_n of_o antiquity_n nor_o indeed_o any_o but_o yourselves_o the_o pope_n or_o a_o council_n of_o your_o own_o and_o your_o church_n it_o seem_v must_v determine_v whether_o she_o be_v a_o true_a church_n or_o no_o and_o whether_o she_o be_v pure_a or_o corrupt_a or_o whether_o she_o be_v infallible_a or_o no_o be_v this_o so_o pop._n i_o confess_v this_o be_v our_o doctrine_n and_o i_o think_v ground_v upon_o reason_n prot._n you_o speak_v against_o the_o common_a sense_n of_o all_o man_n in_o all_o controversy_n or_o difference_n between_o man_n and_o man_n we_o general_o suspect_v that_o party_n who_o will_v submit_v to_o no_o judgement_n but_o his_o own_o and_o he_o who_o be_v willing_a to_o refer_v himself_o to_o any_o three_o indifferent_a party_n be_v general_o presume_v to_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o thâ—s_o be_v our_o case_n protestant_n do_v not_o make_v themselves_o and_o their_o own_o church_n the_o only_a judge_n though_o they_o may_v as_o just_o and_o reasonable_o do_v it_o as_o you_o but_o they_o be_v very_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o other_o judge_n they_o refer_v themselves_o to_o be_v judge_v by_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o most_o indifferent_a judge_n if_o
and_o therefore_o he_o know_v of_o no_o suffering_n in_o the_o invisible_a world_n unless_o happy_o you_o will_v say_v that_o s._n paul_n travel_n be_v in_o another_o road_n into_o the_o three_o heaven_n and_o so_o he_o be_v ignorant_a of_o purgatory_n lazarus_n receive_v his_o evil_a thing_n in_o this_o life_n luk._n 16._o 25._o but_o now_o he_o be_v comfort_v therefore_o sure_o not_o in_o purgatory_n if_o our_o earthly_a house_n of_o this_o tabernacle_n be_v dissolve_v we_o have_v a_o house_n in_o heaven_n say_v s._n paul_n 2_o cor._n 5._o 1._o we_o be_v no_o long_o absent_v from_o the_o lord_n than_o present_a in_o the_o body_n say_v s._n paul_n 2_o cor._n 5_o 6_o 7_o 8._o the_o prophet_n assure_v we_o that_o when_o righteous_a man_n die_v they_o enter_v into_o peace_n they_o rest_v in_o their_o bed_n isa._n 57_o 1_o 2._o i_o tell_v you_o their_o bed_n be_v very_o hard_a and_o the_o prophet_n mistake_n be_v very_o great_a if_o they_o be_v fry_a in_o the_o flame_n of_o purgatory_n the_o beggar_n die_v and_o it_o follow_v immediate_o he_o be_v carry_v by_o angel_n into_o abraham_n bosom_n i_o can_v think_v these_o angel_n mistake_v their_o way_n the_o thief_n be_v to_o be_v with_o christ_n that_o day_n in_o paradise_n luke_n 23._o 43._o pop._n the_o thief_n be_v a_o kind_n of_o martyr_n and_o so_o have_v that_o privilege_n prot._n his_o death_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o martyrdom_n that_o it_o be_v a_o just_a punishment_n for_o his_o evil_a deed_n as_o he_o confess_v v_o 41._o but_o because_o some_o of_o your_o martyr_n as_o you_o call_v they_o be_v indeed_o malefactor_n therefore_o to_o salve_v their_o honour_n you_o make_v this_o malefactor_n a_o martyr_n i_o will_v give_v you_o but_o one_o place_n more_o of_o many_o and_o that_o be_v rev._n 14._o 13._o bless_a be_v the_o dead_a that_o die_v in_o the_o lord_n from_o henceforth_o that_o they_o may_v rest_v from_o their_o labour_n a_o place_n so_o clear_a that_o i_o be_o tell_v a_o famous_a doctor_n of_o your_o own_o and_o one_o of_o the_o sorbon-colledge_n picherellus_n by_o name_n do_v ingenuous_o confess_v st._n john_n have_v in_o these_o few_o word_n put_v out_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n 156._o and_o i_o be_o persuade_v you_o will_v have_v be_v ashamed_a to_o have_v kindle_v it_o again_o but_o that_o by_o this_o craft_n you_o get_v all_o your_o live_n i_o think_v i_o need_v say_v no_o more_o to_o this_o point_n let_v we_o now_o go_v to_o another_o we_o have_v discourse_v of_o purgatory_n now_o if_o you_o please_v let_v we_o discourse_v of_o the_o way_n whereby_o you_o pretend_v to_o free_a man_n from_o it_o which_o be_v by_o absolution_n and_o indulgency_n and_o that_o which_o be_v necessary_a thereunto_o to_o wit_n auricular_a confession_n pop._n it_o be_v well_o you_o mention_v that_o for_o i_o assure_v you_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o salvation_n and_o damnation_n our_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v determine_v that_o it_o be_v by_o divine_a right_n necessary_a and_o as_o attrition_n alone_o which_o be_v a_o grief_n for_o sin_n arise_v only_o from_o a_o fear_n of_o hell_n will_v save_v a_o man_n where_o confession_n to_o a_o priest_n follow_v so_o all_o the_o repentance_n in_o the_o world_n will_v never_o save_v he_o without_o this_o confession_n to_o a_o priest_n viz._n actual_a where_o it_o may_v be_v have_v or_o in_o desire_n when_o it_o can_v be_v actual_o have_v prot._n since_o you_o lay_v so_o much_o stress_n upon_o it_o i_o expect_v suitable_a evidence_n for_o it_o but_o first_o i_o pray_v you_o inform_v i_o what_o your_o doctrine_n be_v in_o this_o point_n pop._n i_o will_v give_v you_o that_o in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o near_o as_o i_o can_v they_o say_v that_o every_o christian_a be_v bind_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o confess_v to_o a_o priest_n all_o his_o mortal_a sin_n which_o after_o diligent_a examination_n he_o can_v possible_o remember_v yea_o even_o his_o most_o secret_a sin_n his_o very_a thought_n yea_o and_o all_o the_o circumstance_n of_o they_o which_o be_v of_o any_o moment_n 4._o prot._n now_o let_v i_o hear_v your_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v this_o pop._n you_o shall_v our_o two_o great_a argument_n be_v these_o first_o priest_n be_v by_o god_n make_v judge_n and_o entrust_v with_o power_n of_o the_o key_n for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n but_o no_o judge_n can_v exercise_v judicature_n unless_o they_o know_v and_o understand_v the_o cause_n and_o the_o priest_n must_v know_v all_o the_o particular_a sin_n and_o their_o circumstance_n by_o the_o man_n own_o confession_n or_o else_o he_o know_v not_o whither_o to_o bind_v or_o loose_v he_o to_o forgive_v or_o to_o condemn_v he_o this_o be_v the_o argument_n upon_o which_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n build_v their_o decree_n ibid._n prot._n tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o confess_v every_o particular_a mortal_a sin_n what_o if_o a_o man_n unavoidable_o forget_v some_o of_o they_o pop._n in_o that_o case_n we_o confess_v they_o may_v be_v pardon_v without_o it_o and_o it_o may_v suffice_v to_o say_v with_o david_n cleanse_v thy_o servant_n from_o secret_a sin_n ibid._n prot._n now_o your_o argument_n be_v quite_o lose_v for_o it_o seem_v in_o this_o case_n which_o may_v be_v in_o many_o hundred_o of_o sin_n especial_o in_o a_o person_n of_o bad_a memory_n your_o judge_n can_v pass_v sentence_n without_o know_v the_o particular_a cause_n and_o therefore_o such_o knowledge_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o his_o give_a absolution_n moreover_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o may_v not_o a_o priest_n absolve_v he_o from_o his_o sin_n who_o christ_n have_v absolve_v pop._n yes_o doubtless_o prot._n and_o be_v not_o every_o priest_n bind_v to_o believe_v that_o christ_n have_v absolve_v every_o person_n that_o be_v true_o penitent_a pop._n there_o be_v no_o question_n of_o that_o prot._n suppose_v a_o sinner_n have_v visible_o forsake_v all_o his_o wicked_a way_n and_o company_n and_o live_v a_o very_a holy_a life_n before_o he_o come_v to_o the_o priest_n and_o the_o priest_n be_v certain_o inform_v of_o this_o be_v not_o the_o priest_n bind_v in_o that_o case_n to_o believe_v he_o be_v true_o penitent_a pop._n i_o shall_v be_v most_o uncharitable_a if_o i_o shall_v deny_v that_o prot_n then_o he_o may_v without_o any_o more_o ado_n upon_o his_o desire_n absolve_v he_o because_o it_o appear_v that_o christ_n have_v absolve_v he_o it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o necessary_a to_o a_o priest_n to_o this_o purpose_n to_o know_v whether_o a_o man_n be_v a_o great_a or_o a_o less_o sinner_n since_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n be_v offer_v unto_o great_a as_o well_o as_o little_a sinner_n and_o therefore_o see_v this_o be_v your_o strong_a argument_n and_o that_o learned_a council_n can_v find_v no_o better_o i_o see_v your_o cause_n be_v very_o low_a and_o bad_a but_o i_o suppose_v you_o have_v some_o other_o argument_n for_o it_o pop._n there_o be_v so_o and_o that_o be_v jam._n 5._o 16._o confess_v your_o fault_n one_o to_o another_o prot._n be_v this_o your_o strong_a argument_n here_o be_v not_o a_o word_n of_o the_o priest_n nor_o of_o confession_n to_o he_o but_o only_o to_o our_o fellow_n christian_n this_o confession_n be_v mutual_a and_o it_o will_v as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o priest_n be_v bind_v to_o confess_v his_o sin_n to_o the_o people_n as_o that_o the_o people_n be_v bind_v to_o confess_v to_o the_o priest_n the_o very_a next_o word_n be_v pray_v one_o for_o another_o what_o be_v we_o bind_v to_o pray_v only_o for_o the_o priest_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n that_o set_v i_o against_o your_o religion_n to_o consider_v what_o pitiful_a argument_n you_o rely_v upon_o i_o be_o assure_v your_o own_o brethren_n confess_v the_o weakness_n of_o this_o argument_n as_o vasquez_n omittimus_fw-la and_o cajetan_a locum_fw-la and_o caenus_n 6._o but_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v no_o better_o the_o weakness_n of_o your_o argument_n for_o it_o may_v save_v i_o the_o labour_n of_o i_o against_o it_o therefore_o i_o shall_v only_o offer_v to_o your_o thought_n these_o two_o consideration_n 1._o your_o doctrine_n make_v that_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o god_n have_v not_o make_v necessary_a there_o be_v no_o command_n of_o god_n or_o christ_n for_o it_o as_o your_o eminent_a doctor_n acknowledge_v 4._o and_o it_o sufficient_o appear_v from_o the_o vanity_n of_o your_o proof_n for_o it_o you_o confess_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a in_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o yet_o there_o be_v as_o much_o need_n and_o use_v of_o it_o then_o as_o now_o and_o christ_n have_v make_v the_o condition_n of_o his_o church_n not_o more_o but_o less_o burdensome_a than_o it_o be_v before_o many_o
our_o great_a argument_n be_v john_n 20._o 23._o whosesoever_o sin_n you_o remit_v they_o be_v remit_v and_o whosesoever_o sin_n you_o retain_v they_o be_v retain_v answer_v i_o this_o argument_n and_o i_o will_v yield_v up_o this_o cause_n prot._n what_o argument_n do_v you_o draw_v from_o these_o word_n pop._n hence_o it_o appear_v that_o minister_n be_v make_v judge_n and_o entrust_v with_o full_a power_n and_o authority_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v so_o as_o christ_n do_v not_o loose_a or_o forgive_v a_o sinner_n by_o himself_o but_o only_o by_o the_o priest_n as_o bellarmin_n say_v 3._o and_o to_o speak_v proper_o as_o our_o most_o learned_a vasquez_n affirm_v god_n do_v not_o proper_o loose_v a_o sinner_n but_o only_o approve_v of_o the_o priest_n lose_v of_o he_o 3._o prot._n now_o in_o my_o opinion_n it_o be_v good_a manner_n to_o make_v the_o priest_n come_v after_o god_n and_o not_o to_o make_v god_n depend_v upon_o the_o priest_n it_o seem_v then_o if_o the_o priest_n shall_v grow_v surly_a or_o envious_a and_o deny_v i_o a_o pardon_n christ_n can_v help_v i_o for_o he_o have_v give_v the_o power_n out_o of_o his_o hand_n so_o you_o make_v the_o priest_n the_o judge_n and_o god_n only_o the_o approver_n the_o lord_n rebuke_v this_o spirit_n of_o blasphemy_n again_o nothing_o be_v more_o familiar_a in_o scripture_n than_o for_o god_n minister_n to_o be_v say_v to_o do_v that_o which_o they_o do_v only_o authoritative_o declare_v that_o god_n will_v do_v thus_o god_n say_v to_o jeremy_n i_o have_v set_v thou_o over_o kingdom_n to_o root_v out_o and_o pull_v down_o and_o destroy_v that_o be_v by_o declare_v that_o god_n will_v do_v it_o in_o like_a manner_n god_n minister_n be_v say_v to_o bind_v and_o loose_v because_o they_o have_v from_o god_n authority_n to_o declare_v a_o sinner_n to_o be_v bind_v by_o his_o sin_n or_o loose_v from_o they_o which_o if_o they_o declare_v true_o and_o according_a to_o god_n word_n god_n in_o heaven_n do_v and_o will_v make_v it_o good_a as_o for_o this_o text_n it_o say_v nothing_o but_o this_o that_o every_o one_o who_o they_o bind_v or_o loose_v that_o be_v proceed_v according_a to_o their_o rule_n which_o be_v always_o to_o be_v understand_v shall_v be_v bind_v or_o loose_v in_o heaven_n but_o it_o do_v not_o say_v that_o no_o man_n be_v bind_v or_o loose_v but_o they_o who_o the_o priest_n bind_v and_o lose_v but_o beside_o if_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v grant_v how_o do_v this_o text_n prove_v that_o the_o priest_n or_o pope_n can_v absolve_v or_o release_v any_o soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o place_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o can_v the_o pope_n bind_v any_o soul_n and_o keep_v he_o in_o purgatory_n pop._n no_o we_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o that_o prot._n then_o he_o can_v loose_v a_o soul_n neither_o out_o of_o purgatory_n for_o i_o be_o sure_a bind_n and_o lose_v be_v of_o the_o same_o extent_n but_o upon_o second_o thought_n i_o must_v own_o your_o discretion_n for_o the_o bind_n of_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n be_v a_o invidious_a and_o unprofitable_a work_n and_o will_v have_v bind_v up_o man_n heart_n and_o purse_n it_o be_v only_o the_o lose_n of_o they_o out_o which_o open_v their_o purse_n string_n &_o tend_v to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v the_o pope_n and_o priest_n as_o they_o always_o understand_v that_o word_n in_o sober_a sadness_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o make_v any_o serious_a christian_a abhor_v your_o church_n that_o your_o pope_n shall_v not_o be_v content_a to_o usurp_v a_o power_n over_o the_o whole_a visible_a world_n but_o that_o he_o shall_v extend_v his_o authority_n to_o the_o other_o world_n even_o to_o purgatory_n in_o my_o opinion_n he_o have_v do_v more_o wise_o to_o have_v extend_v his_o empire_n to_o hell_n for_o there_o be_v many_o of_o his_o predecessor_n so_o far_o as_o can_v be_v judge_v by_o any_o man_n life_n who_o he_o may_v have_v appoint_v his_o deputy_n but_o there_o be_v never_o a_o pope_n in_o purgatory_n for_o they_o who_o can_v release_v other_o at_o pleasure_n will_v certain_o deliver_v themselves_o but_o now_o i_o speak_v of_o that_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o i_o have_v hear_v that_o the_o pope_n when_o he_o die_v receive_v absolution_n from_o his_o confessor_n and_o that_o after_o his_o death_n the_o cardinal_n give_v he_o absolution_n and_o give_v order_n for_o the_o sing_n of_o abundance_n of_o mass_n pop._n it_o be_v true_a i_o be_v at_o rome_n when_o the_o last_o pope_n die_v and_o it_o be_v so_o then_o and_o our_o book_n justify_v it_o prot._n i_o be_o much_o please_v with_o your_o ingenuity_n so_o the_o pope_n give_v the_o priest_n a_o power_n to_o pardon_v himself_o methinks_v he_o may_v save_v the_o charge_n of_o a_o confessor_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o say_v i_o absolve_v myself_o but_o tell_v i_o do_v you_o say_v mass_n for_o any_o that_o be_v in_o heaven_n or_o in_o hell_n pop._n no_o we_o utter_o disclaim_v that_o prot._n then_o i_o perceive_v the_o pope_n go_v into_o purgatory_n i_o see_v your_o pope_n be_v not_o self-seeking_a man_n as_o they_o be_v slander_v to_o be_v that_o help_v so_o many_o thousand_o out_o of_o purgatory_n and_o leave_v themselves_o in_o but_o real_o this_o be_v to_o i_o a_o convince_a argument_n that_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v your_o self_n but_o deceive_v poor_a silly_a people_n against_o your_o conscience_n for_o else_o you_o may_v be_v assure_v the_o pope_n will_v never_o come_v into_o purgatory_n for_o you_o say_v he_o can_v keep_v himself_o out_o and_o no_o man_n doubt_n of_o his_o will_n to_o do_v it_o beside_o your_o doctrine_n usurp_v upon_o god_n prerogative_n i_o have_v think_v it_o be_v only_o my_o father_n in_o heaven_n to_o who_o i_o shall_v have_v pray_v forgive_v we_o our_o trespass_n now_o it_o seem_v we_o must_v pray_v so_o to_o one_o of_o these_o padre_n upon_o earth_n you_o make_v subject_n the_o supreme_a judge_n of_o all_o offence_n commit_v against_o their_o sovereign_n and_o your_o priest_n sit_v as_o umpire_n between_o god_n and_o the_o sinner_n and_o determine_v what_o satisfaction_n god_n shall_v have_v and_o what_o penance_n the_o sinner_n shall_v undergo_v methinks_v they_o be_v brave_a fellow_n and_o i_o now_o see_v it_o be_v not_o without_o ground_n that_o father_n cotton_n brag_v that_o he_o can_v do_v any_o thing_n when_o he_o have_v his_o god_n in_o his_o hand_n that_o be_v the_o sacrament_n and_o his_o king_n upon_o his_o knee_n in_o confession_n i_o think_v you_o will_v bring_v christ_n upon_o his_o knee_n too_o for_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v resolve_v that_o he_o shall_v stand_v to_o your_o priest_n arbitration_n i_o may_v add_v to_o this_o that_o you_o leave_v the_o soul_n of_o people_n to_o endless_a perplexity_n you_o confess_v that_o indulgence_n profit_v not_o if_o a_o man_n be_v not_o in_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n 13._o which_o you_o say_v a_o man_n can_v certain_o know_v or_o if_o a_o man_n have_v not_o make_v a_o free_a and_o full_a confession_n after_o sufficient_a examination_n poenitentia_fw-la and_o who_o know_v when_o he_o have_v do_v these_o thing_n sufficient_o or_o if_o the_o priest_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o pardon_v he_o and_o who_o know_v another_o man_n intention_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v i_o so_o desperate_a to_o venture_v my_o soul_n upon_o such_o sandy_a foundation_n that_o yourselves_o be_v afraid_a and_o ashamed_a of_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o i_o perceive_v that_o this_o and_o divers_a of_o your_o other_o doctrine_n be_v ground_v upon_o that_o of_o the_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n which_o because_o i_o judge_v a_o very_a pernicious_a and_o dangerous_a doctrine_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v for_o it_o but_o first_o let_v i_o understand_v your_o doctrine_n for_o i_o have_v hear_v some_o of_o you_o cry_v out_o that_o our_o divine_n slander_v they_o and_o profess_v that_o they_o do_v not_o hold_v merit_n strict_o but_o cast_v the_o honour_n of_o all_o upon_o christ_n and_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n therefore_o i_o pray_v you_o inform_v i_o pop._n i_o will_v be_v plain_a and_o candid_a with_o you_o i_o do_v not_o like_o such_o artifices_fw-la the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o plain_a term_n affirm_v that_o our_o good_a work_n do_v true_o merit_v increase_n of_o grace_n and_o eternal_a life_n 32._o and_o our_o famous_a bellarmive_a dispute_n and_o prove_v that_o good_a work_n do_v not_o only_o merit_v in_o respect_n of_o god_n gracious_a covenant_n but_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o worthiness_n of_o the_o work_n themselves_o and_o that_o eternal_a life_n be_v not_o only_o due_a from_o god_n liberality_n but_o from_o his_o just_a judgement_n 17._o