attributed by all Catholike writers and not the secoÌ„darie instrumental meritorious cause ascribed by vs to good workes is euident first by the very next immediate woords folowing in S. Bernard vpon the former Rom. â— Quos iustificauit sayth he non quos iustos inuenit hos magnificauit God hath magnifyed and exalted to his kingdome not those whom he found iust of themselues but whom he by his grace did make iust by which words S. Bernard doth inferre that all the merits of our good workes together with the reward promised to them do come originallie and principally from God and consequentlie both the one and the other are to be ascribed vnto him as vnto the chiefest cause though also by our voluntarie concurrance thervnto when we are moued by God we haue our interest therin and are trulie said to merit lyfe euerlasting which S. Bernard doth explicate most excellentlie a litle before in the same place his wordes are these hauing spoken first verie largly of good workes Bernard ibid. Verum haec sayth he cum certum sit diuino in nobiâ— actitarâ— spiritu Deâ— sunt munera quia verò cum nostrae voluntatis assensu nostra sunt mâ—rita Wheras it is certayne that these good workes by me before mentyoned are wrought in ys by the spirit of God they must needs be called the giftes of God And for that they are done also by the consent of our wil they are our merits Thus sayth he and then doth he prosecute the same with a large and learned discourse vpoÌ„ the words of S. Paul to Timothie where he sayth Bonum certaemen certaui c. I haue fought a good fight â— Tim. 4. I haue ended my course I haue kept my fayth and for the rest then is layd vp for me a crowne of Iustice which God the iust iudge shal restore vnto me at that day Vpon which wordes S. Bernard sayth thus If it be so that the verie wil of doing good in S. Paul wherof all merit doth depend was not his owne but receyued from God how doth he cal it a croune of Iustice which he assureth himselfe to be layd vp for him is it perhaps for that whatsoeuer is freelie promised it may be iustlie after the promise made required as due debt c. he saith further for that S. Paul beleeued the promiser he now confidentlie exacteth the promise which promise though it were of mercy yet now it is to be payd of iustice c. For it is iust that God should pay whatsoeuer he oweth and he oweth whatsoeuer he hath promised c. and of this iustice it pleased God to make Paul a partener Iustitiae Paulum Deus voluit habere consortem vt coronae faceret promeritorem Bern. pag. 1069. to the end he might make him also a deseruer of his crowne and in this he made him both partener of his iustice and deseruer of his crowne when he vouchsafed to make him his helper or coadiutor in doing good works wherunto his crowne is promised further he made him his coadiutor when he made him to consent to his holy wil and motion Lo heere how S. Bernard doth connect ioyne togeather the operation of God and cooperation of man in the matter of merit attributing to God the first and principal motion of grace mercy promise and inabling vs to worke and vnto man that he concurreth freely by cooperation with Gods instinct so as the reward of this worke which is the Kingdome of heauen yf we respect the first cause which is God it is mercy and yf we consider the secondary instrumental cause which is man the promise of God made vnto him it is called iustice and dew debt let vs heare S. Augustine in the same matter Aug. hom 14. lib 50. homiliarum 2. Tim. 4. and vpon the same words of the Apostle For the rest saith the Apostle there remayneth to me a crowne of iustice which God the iust iudge shal restore to me at the last day Behould he saith that God shal restore a crowne vnto him ergo he is his debter Aug. in Psal. â—â— And againe in another place vnde debitor accepit aliquid c. Whence is God become a debter hath he receyued any thing or doth he owe any thing to any man and yet behould Paul doth hold him for his debter saying God shal restore vnto me c. what shal he restore vnto thee Paul but that which he oweth whence doth he owe any thing vnto thee what hast thow giuen vnto him Truly God hath made himselfe a debter not by receyuing any thing but by promising so as yt may not be said vnto him restore that which thow hast receyued but pay that which thow hast promised Thus do wryte these holy Fathers shewing how God becometh debiter to the merits of our good works not by their owne nature but by his owne voluntary free promise and mercy yet deny they not the truth of this merit nor blaspheme yt as our foÌ„d K. doth saying that it is a proud presumption before God to put any opinion of merit to our works Pag. 19. but yow haue heard out of the Fathers how they do not only put opinion of merit in good works but do plainly affirme and teach yt and that it is dew debt supposing Gods promise made to reward them Wherof also it followeth that albeit the saying of S. Bernard be most true in the sense alleadged that our merits be the way to the Kingdome of heauen but not the cause speaking of the first and principal cause yet were those words not truly but frandulently translated by our K. that they are not the cause wherfore we shal obtayne the Kingdome as though they were no cause at all which is false and absurd for that noe man can deny them to be the instrumental meritorious causes of obtayning heauen seing God hath promised heauen as a reward vnto them and hauing promised is bound in iustice to preforme the same as now yow haue heard by the Fathers declared And so much of this matter for this place The fift beatitude which this blessing-maker bringeth is freedome from persecution The 5. blessing freedome from persecution and as he calleth them halcyon dayes when he sayth The litle barke of Christ Iesus before tossed with the waues and stormes of furious and bloudy presecution hath found now some repose and rest Pag. 20. About which blessing I would aske the K. certayne questions therby to come to the truth of the matter auoyd impostures and first I would aske him whether this freedome from persecution be common to all or to some only that is to protestants and then whether this be passiue or actiue in them that is whether they stand out free in them-selues or do suffer other men also to be free from persecutioÌ„ for yf it be not a common blessing to all but particular to themselues then can yt
mouth then of election deliberation Claud. de Sainctes in resp ad Apol. Beze And to this colloquie for the Protestants came 12. ministers wherof 8. or 9. were Apostata Fryars as the sayd Claudius that was present and Surius do write Sur. in hist. anno 1561. and testifie wherof the chiefe and head of those that came from Geneua was Beza Theod. Beza Peter Martyr and other Ministers but of the other that came froÌ„ Germany the principal was Peter Martyr who disagreing from Beza almost in euerie one point to be disputed on especially about the Eucharist and baptisme for that Peter was a playne Swinglian and no Caluenist no one thing could be thorowly coÌ„cluded betweene them which was no smal help to the Catholykes in that terrible tyme who notwithstanding lost not their courages but stood to it and took their places as superiors and Iudges of heretykes especiallie the Bishops and other Prelates next to the King and other Princes and made the ministers that would haue thrust themselues in also to stand a loof with this reproch as Sanctius sayth Apoc. 22. foris autem canes and yt was no litle mortification to their high stomachs to heare those words and to be so contemptuouslie vsed who came into France to that meeting most proud magnificentlie prouided and more lyke warlyke triumphers Resp. ad Apol. Beza then Apostolycal teachers as the same author describeth yt in a book dedicated to Beza himself And first he sheweth how and in whose Coches The pompe and dissolution of the Caluinian ministers going to poi sie horslytters and other such furniture they were brought into Fraunce how sumptuouslie feasted entertayned vpon the way with concourse and meetings of noble men but especiallie of noble womeÌ„ who receyued cherished and banketted them most sumptuously with some wherof he sheweth that Bezas owne compagnions accused him to haue byn ouer familiar to haue had sometyme fowre houres conference in great secresy to wit he and shee in a Chamber alone and moreouer he sheweth that Beza his creditors whome he had deceyued at his first flying out of France were now vpon his back agayne and called vpon him hotly for their money but in vayne for they had both fauour of great Princes and good Hargubushes also to answere for them After this he sheweth that passing through France with an army following them when they came to Poysie they were lodged all in a monasterie where there was such wonderful prouision of delicate bedding furniture of chambers and good cheare made for them by those of their faction as yf they had byn Princes of the blood royal of France and that whensoeuer they went thence to the assembly so many chaynes of gold so many Captaynes noble men went before them for their honour as was maruelous and ridiculous but much more when they returned home againe froÌ„ the assembly they had procured that each of them should haue some great man and gouernor of some place or Prouince ready to leane vpon VVonderful delicatenesse of â—postolical Ministers and to lead them by the arme to their coaches or horselitters as though they had byn verie wearie which earnest disputing for the Ghospel But let vs heare that most learned man Bishop Sanctius his owne words that was present and sawe yt and obiecteth the same to Beza himselfe as principal actor at that tyme. Sainct in resp ad Apol. Bezâ—a Do yow remeÌ„ber sayth he when twelue of yow ministers were caried from S. GermaÌ„s towne by Paris to Poysie in noblemens coches and horselitters couered with silk accompagnied with great troupes of Souldiors going not as Apostolical teachers but Martial Ministers at what tyme euery one of yow had eyther some great man and Gouernor of Prouinces at your sides when yow went out of the Monastery vpon whose arme yow must leane lyke delicate virgins or noble women great with child and then going into the Inne of the signe of the Angeâ— yow were richlie banqueted all in siluer and gold plate good exquisite wynes pleasant Musick and great concourse of nobles to coÌ„gratulate yow the victorie against Catholykes and then your bankets ended your fashion was yf yow remember to get yow to coche agayne and to runne vp and downe woods and feildes for recreation souÌ„ding out your Geneua psalmes and other songs to refresh your spirits Oh what a sight was it to see 8. or 9. of your Company that were poore Monks and Fryars a litle before VVanton Monks and Pryars made nevv Gospellers and most of them of the poorest begging orders who had scarse dry bread at home to feed on and were commonly the refuses and worsser sort of their Monasteries now to be so pampered in silke apparel and with delicate fare and to haue great part of the nobilitie of France to wayt vpon them and to lead them vp downe leaning vpon their armes and shoulders as if they had byn Mayden Queenes or great noble women and no lesse delicately then yow Beza at home in Geneua lead vp and downe your Candida And this was the preface or proeme of the new reformation which these Apostolical men were to make in France Thus farre wryteth the learned Bishop Sanctius And surely the pitiful Tragedies that folowed presently vpon this proheeme before these fellowes left France are incredible yet much therof may be seene in Belforest Surius and others in their histories of the yeare 1562. to which I do remit the reader and only for our purpose of disputation I say The good vvhich came of the Colloquie of Poysie that albeit any great euent could not be expected of this meeting for matters of religion in such tymes of garboyles and with such men yet this good came to the Catholyke cause therby that yt was easely perceyued by discreet men what difference there was betweene the teachers of the one the other syde both in lyfe and substance of doctrine For as for lyfe and manners diuers of their owne syde were so scandalized with these twelue Champions behauiour as they neuer after liked their sect but returned by litle and litle to Catholyke Religion agayne And as for substance of doctrine this at the least was seene of all that the Catholykes agreed in one and shewed their lyke agreement in and by all former ages But the new ministers could not agree fully as hath byn sayd in any one point Dissention of the ministers of Poysie For about the Eucharist Peter martyr following Swinglius held yt for a figure and trope only and the bread but a bare signe But Beza following Caluyn had a new deuise that yt was the verie true real and natural body of Christ but yet spiritually and with this word spiritually he cutteth of all agayne that he had yeilded before and yet would he not agree in any â—ase that yt was a signe only with the Swinglians The lyke controuersie was among them
shewed the greatest gaule against him yet coÌ„fessing the helps of nature that were in him to vse his owne words he addeth Fox act and mon. pag. 1â—6 col 2. n. 4. Besydes this sayth he he was of a chast and strickt lyfe yf the histories be true Mark Iohn Fox his exception if the histories be true why should he cal in doubt auncient histories more in this point then in others But yow must vnderstand that this Fox hauing a special spite against this blessed man being desirous by all meanes possible to disgrace him and his actions in his false lying martyrologe and finding no authors in the world before Luthers heresy to serue his purpose or to speak or wryte euil of him but all rather highly in his commendation what course taketh the miseriable man think yow truly a most desperate which is to vse these authors against themselues and against both their owne sayings and meanings and so patcheth he vp as it were out of them a long treatese and narration of aboue 40. pages of paper against S. Tho. pretending to take it out of the foresaid authors but yet spicing it with so many â—fs ands Fox his egregiouâ— falâ—e dealing against S. Thomas adioyning so many glosses parentheses notes obseruations interpretations commentaries and censures of his owne both in the text and margent as he maketh all those wryters to tel a quite contrary story to that they purposed and for which they wrote their books in such sort as if a man should set out the byble or new Testament it self with such corruption and peruersion it would more disgrace Christian religion for whose confirmation it was wrytten theÌ„ any other wicked book whatsoeuer yea then the Turks Alcaron it self And this is the dealing of Iohn Fox in cyting and corrupting authors as after shal appeare more particularly But Sir Francis taketh another course which is to tel his tale at his pleasure without cyting any testimony or author at all wherof I take the reason to be that which Iohn Fox telleth vs in these words plainly Iohn Fox discrediteth all ould vvryters Pag. 204. col 1. n. 4. Scarse any testimony is to be taken of that age being all blynded and corrupted with superstition Thus he saith and this is the cause why Sir F. alleageth no author and Fox forceth them to speake as he would haue them But I would aske Iohn Fox againe if no wryter of the age it self wherin S. Tho. liued be to be credited about his affaires how shal we beleeue wryters of later ages that must needs take it from the former if they write with foundation not deuise matter of themselues Againe I would aske whether it be probable that so great a king as K. Henry the second was could get no man to wryte the Story indifferently for him in his age How likely a fiction is this of Fox And this may be sufficient for the first point for seing all the foresaid wryters and their woorks are ful of high prayses of S. Thom. for his sanctity and perfection of lyfe and for that cause are specialy discredited heere by Iohn Fox it shal be sufficient to remit the reader in this behalf to thesaid volumes and wrytings before mentioned For the second which is his cause with the king whether his resisting as Primate of England for liberty to the English Churche were treason to the K. or no VVhether S. Thom. vvas a traitor is easy to be iudged by him that is not passionate and wil without flattery of temporal Princes consider indifferently the dignity preheminence duty and obligation of Ecclesiastical gouernours in this behalf for defence of their spiritual iurisdiction To which purpose the Warder said as followeth If in euery contention or dissention that a bishop VVard p. 22. priest or other spiritual subiect or Ecclesiastical Prelate may haue with his temporal prince That all spiritual men resisting temporal magistrats in Ecclesiastical matters are not traytors Marc. 18. the subiect shal presently be condemned of treason according to this seruile ceÌ„sure of our knight who for flattering princes doth make them absolute lords both of body and soule then Iohn Baptist also must be accompted a traitor that dealt so peremptorily with his king Herod his liege lord in temporal affaires Or yf yow wil haue examples of christian princes S. Ambrose must be a traytor first for resisting openly his â—ord and King Theod. lib 4. ca. 6. lib. 9. cap. 17 deinceps Valentinian the yonger and then for handling so hardly the elder Theodâ—sius in Miliayn as he shut him out of the Churche and made him go home againe with shame and do pennaÌ„ce Zozomenus lib. 8 fere pet totum S. Hilarius also and S. Athanasius shal be traytors for their contentions with Constantius their lawful Emperor and temporal lord who banished them from their bishopricks and the former of the two wrote two vehemeÌ„t books and inuectiues against thesaid Emperor and yet no man euer accompted him a traytor for thesame but rather a great Saynt for his christian liberty and constancy S. Chrysostome in like maner shal be condemned for a great traytor who had greater contentions with his temporal lords Arcadius and Honorius christian Emperors Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 16. and with their wiues Theodosia and Eudoxia then euer S. Thomas had with K. Henry the second Zozom lib. 8 cap. 17. for he preached against them publikely with great vehemency and thundered out excommunication against them Niceph. li. 14. cap. 43. and was twice banished and dryuen out of his bishoprick by their disfauours and died in exile And yet was he neuer called or accompted a traytor but a singular holy man and Theodosius the yonger sonne of Arcadius brought his body with great solemnity honor and reuerence into Constantinople and wept most bitterly for the synnes of his parents in persecuting so blessed a man as the Story saith made prayer to him now dead for pardon of his fathers synnes as did also often both our K. Henry the second himself and his sonne for the offence of his father Math. Parisien in vit Henr. who had ben some cause of the death of this iust man his pastor and spiritual father Thus wrote the Warder then and what replyeth now our knight or his minister to all this yow shal heare the knight in his owne woords VVho saith he but such a one as hath sold himself to all impudency and shamelesse gaynsaying the truth Pag. 54. would seek to couer Beckets rebellion by the facts of S. Iohn Baptist Ambrose Hilary Athanasius and Chrysostome which haue as much agreement with the cause of Becket as hath light with darknesse good with euil sweet with sower Heer yow se the knight in a great heat but his minister O. E. answereth somwhat more temperately saying only that These examples fit not Thomas Beckeâ—s cause Wel then of two
traytor Thus he writeth of the beginning of the controuersy There was as authors doe affirme in that time of Henrie the second Pag 56. more then a hundred murthers besydes other felonyes proued vpon the cleargie which when the king would haue punished according to the lawes of the land A fâ—lse and slâ—undâ—rous beginning of the 〈…〉 Becket opposed himself and beardeth the king in this so iust an action vnder title of standing for the libertyes of the Churche from this strauÌ„ge ground these proceedings ensued In which words of the knight there is to bee noted first that where he saith authors doe affirmè that more then a hundred murders besides other â—ellonies were proued vpon the cleargie no other author is found to mention any such thing but onelie Nubergensis who yet doth not say that they were proued vpon the clergie but his words are Nuberg hist. Angl. l. 2 16. that it was said to haue byn tould the king at a certaine time that aboue a hundred murders had byn committed within the kingdome of England since his raigne by Cleargie men In which woords as you see NubergeÌ„sis doth not say that it was true or that it was proued as our knight doth and secondly he speaketh of the whole tyme of king Henries raigne vntil this contention which was some 14. or 15. yeares and thirdly the falling out of the Archbishop with the king was not for that he would not haue these clergie men punished if they had offended as wickedly this knight giueth to vnderstand saying presently after This proud prelate durst protect fellons and murderers against the king and iustice of the lanâ— but the controuersy was only about the maner of punishing those that did offend and by what iudges and iurisdiction they should be punished to wit whether by ecclesiastical or temporal power for that the Archbishop affirmed that equity required that clergie men offending should first be iudged condemned and degraded by ecclesiastical power according both to the cannon lawes as also the municipal lawes of the land confirmed by all former Christian Kings â—rom the first conuersion of England and that they being thus condemned should be deliuered to secular power for executâ—on of the sentence which is a case that faâ—leth out dayly in Spayn Italy France and other Cath. contreys where Bishops do defend their Eccâ—es iurisdiction in punishing Eccles. persons taking them also by force of censures out of secular iudges hands when occasioÌ„ is offered without all note of rebellion or treason And no lesse was this law of the realme of England confirmed by ancient parliaments and other antiquities then were the secular lawes for which S r. F. standeth and fondly calleth the defence of eccles lawes treason and rebellion Wherfore hauing set downe so false a relation of the beginning of this controuersy falsifying NubergeÌ„sis as yow see in many points he doth prosecute the same with lyke vntruth as presently yow shal see And first he beginneth with a certayne letter of Maud the Empresse vnto the Archbishop which she wrote at the instance of the King her sonne and vpoÌ„ the informatioÌ„ of such courtyers as were contrary to the Bishop and his cause In which letters she chargeth him that to vse S â— F. owne words as much as in him lay he went about to disinherit the King and depriue him of his crowne Whervnto I answere that truth it is Iohn Fox hath such a letter of thesaid Empresse Maud without telling where Pag â—8 or whence or how he had it or where we may read it for in none of all the authors aboue mentioned I do fynd it Yet one thing I would haue the reader to note S. F vntrue dealing in cyting matters against S. Thom. which testifieth the continuance of S r. F. vntrue dealing in this affayre that wheras in Iohn Fox the whole charge of the empresse against the Archbishop is mitigated by this pareÌ„thesius as the report is which sheweth that these were but suspitions only and reports of his enimies Fox Pag. 201. S r. F. hath left out the parenthesis as the report is as though she had charged him vpon her owne knowledge which is no true dealing or right meaning as yow see But let vs heare further S r. F. his words pretending a more certayne proof of treason rebellion in S. Thomas Pag. 58. But if the Empresse saith he might be thought to speak partialy on the K. her sonnes behalf yet the two Card. sent by the Pope to heare all this controuersy out of question wil not condemne him without iust cause and yet in a letter sent from them to the Pope they do condemne him c. Yf S. F. proue himself a true K â— in verifying this one poynt which here he sayth I am to pardon much of that which hath passed before But yf in this matter of so great moment he be taken in lyke falshood who wil then trust him hereafter Let vs examine then the matter I wil haue none other euideÌ„ces or witnesses but his owne woords for presently after he setteth downe a part of the letter of VVilliam and Otho Card. sent by Pope Alexander to heare the cause betwene the King the Archbishop and hauing trauayled therin the King being in Normandie and the Archb. at Paris they found the matter more hard then they imagined to compouÌ„d False dealing of Syr Fraunces for that the Archbishop demaunded restitution to his lyuings for himself and for his frends and reuocation of certayne lawes lately made preiudicial to ecclesiastical iurisdiction before he could end the matter wherwith the-sayd Card. being somwhat displeased for that they desired to carry with them to the Pope the glory of this accord made by them and for that the King had much gayned their good wil by liberallity towards theÌ„ for these causes they wrote to the Pope somwhat fauorably in the Kings behalf but yet nothing condemning the Archbishop as vntruly out K â— doth auow which now I shal shew out of the woords of their owne letter alleaged heere by S.F. which are these VVilliam and Otho Card. of the Churche of Rome to Alexander the Pope The letter of the tvvo Cardinals to the Pope â— VVe comming to the land of the K. of England found the controuersy betwixt him and the Archbishop of Canterbury more sharp and vehement then we would for the King the greater part about him said that the Archbishop had sâ—yâ—red vp the french King greuously against him as also the Earle of Flaunders his kinsman who was very louing and kynd to him before whome he made his open aduersary ready to wage warre against him as is by diuers euidences most certayne c. These are the words of the Card. by S. F. relation which supposing they were truly alleaged yet he that shal consider and ponder them wel wil see that out of them no more can be vrged against the Archbishop but
Angels or no Cap. 6. num 6. num 8. Whether the name of Lucifugi scripturarum or scripture-battes vsed by Tertullian do properly agree to protestants or Catholyks Cap. 6. num 24.25.26 c. Whether ignorance be held by Catholyks to be the mother of deuotion Cap. 7. num 1.2 c. Whether ignorance in some points coÌ„cerning religion may in some people be comendable and meritorious as S. Hilary saith or no ibid cap. 8. num 3. Whether the distinction of fides implicita and explicita be a true necessary distinction for the saluation of many mennes soules which caÌ„not possibly be saued wiâ—hout the vse thereof Cap 7. num 6. Whether it be true that Catholyks teach that laymen must not medle in matters of Religion and how farre they are to medle Cap. â— Why the Cath. Churche doth vse Index expurgatorius against the corruption of heretyks and their books how it must be vsed and what great good ensueth therof Cap. 9. num 23.24 c. Whether S. Thomas of Canterbury were a true martyr and of his miracles Cap. 10. 11. Whether his case were lyke the case of S. Iohn Bapt. with his King or of S. Ambrose with his Emperor or no Cap. 10. Whether the miracles wrought by S. Thomas of Canterbury after his death were true miracles and did proue him a Saint or no. Cap. 11. Which is the better spirit and more conforme to scripture and the old fathers to beleeue easily miracles or to discredit them cap. 11. num 19. How true saints may be knowen and whether Fox-made saincts or Pope-made Saints as S.F. calleth them are more substantially Canonized Cap. 11. num 15.16 c. Whether Catholyks do hold that the Pope or any comming from him is to be obeyed though he commauÌ„d blasphemies Cap. 12. 13. Whether the merits and sufferings of Saints may be lawfully mentioned in our prayers as motiues to mooue God with all Cap. 12. Whether no man may say to the Pope vvhy do yovv so though he lead infinite soules to hel as O. E. cauilleth Cap. 13. num 17.18 c. Whether Catholyks do vse the Popes pardons for their cheefest remedies against all sort of sinnes as heretyks do accuse them Cap. 14. In what degree or sense pardons are auaileable to Christians ibid. num 8. cap. 15. num 1.2.3 c. Whether Iames Clement that slue the last K. of France were absolued for the fact before the committing therof Cap. 15. Whether it be true that K. Iohn of England was poysoned by a monk or that the monk was absolued for the same before he comitted the fact as Iohn Fox and S.F. do hold cap. 15. num 4.5 c. Whether the doctrine of saluation by only faith be a common cartway to hel for all libertines or no cap. 16. The third and fourth Tables as wel of shiftes and wilful falsifications by Syr Francis and O. E. as of the principal matters conteyned in these two Encounters are to be seene in the end of the book AN ANSVVER TO A CERTAYNE VAYNE AND ARROGANT EPISTLE OF O. E. minister vnto N. D. author of the Ward-word SMall contentment geÌ„tle reader can any Christian modest man take that hauing to handle a graue serious cause seeth himselfe drawne or rather driuen from thesame to contention of wordes by the insolencie and importunitie of his quarrelling aduersarie 2. Tim. 2. which teÌ„deth to nothing as the Apostle also noteth but to the subuersion of the hearer and yet when we are forced to this disorder somwhat also must be sayd least silence in speach shew diffidence in truth and that a foole as the Scripture insinuateth if he be not answered in his folly begin to thinke himself wyse Prouerb 26. We haue signifyed before in our preface how a certayne contentious minister desyrous to be doing and to play a parte but yet not without a visard in respect of the follyes perhaps he was to vtter resolued to mask and cypher his name vnder the letters of O. E. and then hauing pervsed the reply of S. FraÌ„cis Hastings to the Ward-word and misliking as it seemeth the same as insufficient he bâ—ckled himselfe to make in his owne opinion a better defence though in other mens iudgment of two bad this is farre the worse both in respâ—ct of the substance of matters and controuersies handled wherof this man treateth no one groundedlie any where but only quarrelleth at the words and sentences of his aduersarie as also in regard of his outragious intemperate speach which runneth alâ—o oftentymes both to turpitude scurrilitie the reason wherof we thinke to be in parte for that the minister perswading himselfe to be masked presumeth to vtter any tâ—ing as vnknowne and I am content for this tyme to let him so passe though in deed his deportment be such against all kynd of Catholique men neuer so learned vertuous worshipful or honorable as no way he deserueth any such fauour and that I could dismaske him he may perceyue by diuers poynts which afterward I shal haue occasion to touch Now â—hen letting passe this we shal looke into the argument of this present Epistle of O.E. to N.D. which yow shal see to consist of three principal poynts Tâ—â—e poynts of â—his Epistle to wit notorious folly apparant falshood ridiculous vanitie in bragging vauÌ„ting let vs see them all in order This Epistle prefixed before his booke hath this inscription To N. D. alâ—as Noddie O. E. vvisheth knovvledge of truth c. and then beginneth he his Epistle thus Sir N.D. or Noddie or hovvsoeuer it shal please yovv to style your selfe being a man but of tvvo or three letters c. Heeâ—e yow see beginneth a graue contention betweene O. E. and N. D. about the worde Noddie which none but a Noddy in my opinion would euer haue brought into examination especially in print â—or that N. D. being but consonants and hauing no sound of their owne cannot make Noddie excâ—pt yow ad the sound of O.E. vnto them that are vowels to geue lyfe vnto the word wherof it foloweth that seing consonants are but the material parte of a worde and vowels the formal O. â— must needs be the formal Noddie and that N.D. doth but lend him a coople of consonants to make him a Noddie and thus much for the name it selfe But as for the nature and essence of a Noddie to which of the two it doth best agree shal appeare afterward in the discussion of matters throughout this whole combat and one poynt of a Noddie yow may presentlie perceaue in these verie words alleadged wheras O.E. obiected to N.D. that he is a man but of two or three letters which is answered sufficientlie by numbring onlie how many letters O. E. do make and so agayne afterward and verie often in his repliâ— he obiecteth to N. D. that he durst not put downe his name at length which yet himselfe being at home vpon his owne ground and among
can the knight beare witnes whose name beginneth with a B and waâ— forced to witnesse against him I could alleadge also diuers other witnesses omni exceptione maiores as wel of his owne order as otherwise of his intemperate and odious speaches against the present state and such as manage the same for temporal matters complayning grieuouslie among the rest of the seruitude and great pouertie of the English clergie affyrming in particular that they payd the third penny of all that euer they had and fynally shewing himselfe as deepely discontent as any man could bee that lyueth in external shew of obedience And for all these and other such poynts I could name many particuâ—ars both of matter men tyme and place when and where they were spoken as also I could resolue the name of O. E. into his true sillables if it be true that his surname beginne with S. but I haue promised to spare him for this tyme and wil keep my promise And if it please him to goe forward in this controuersie taken in hand with christian modestie and conuenient tearmes of ciuilitie as men professing learning ought to do I shal be content to answer him in the same style attending to the matter and not to the man or his manners but if he delight in the other vayne style of scolding scurrilitie I meane to leaue him and deliuer him ouer into the hands of some which may chance tâ—ke him vp also in that kynd according to his deserts in the meane space the man before mentioned that is most iniuried by him in his malignitie of speach leeseth litle by his lewd detraction but gayneth rather exceedingly both in merit with God and credit with all good men and as for the tryal of their cause it will appeare sufficientlie by that which afterward cometh to be examined in these Encounters CERTAINE BRIEF NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS VPON SIR F. HAStinges Epistle to the Christian Reader THOVGH whatsoeuer S r. F. wryteth in this Epistle be handled afterward more at large in the seueral Encounters theÌ„selues that do ensue yet to let nothing passe wholy vnanswered and to discouer somewhat in this beginning the talent which the K. hath in wryting I haue thought best to set downe these fewe annotatioÌ„s coÌ„cerning the principal points though none indeed be principal or material of his said Epistle to the Christian Reader First of all he beginneth the very first paragraphe of his Epistle with such obscurity or deep mistery Epist. pag. 1. as I confesse I vnderstand him not for thus he sayth Hauing obserued gentle Reader from the words and wrytinges of the learned that it is a maxime A maâ—â—mâ— euil applied or rule in Philosophie Finis est primus in intentione the end aymed at is first setled in the intention of man and findinge this Romanist to boast and bragge much of his leaâ—ning it is not vnlike that like a conning Clarke whatsoeuer his learning be the end of this his worke was the first ground of his wryting Thus he wryteth and yf the Reader vnderstand his meaning and what he would coÌ„clude it is wel for I professe my ignorance therin only I know the Philosophers maxime to be this Aristoâ— that as the end of â—oing any thing is first in our intention so is it last in preformance and execution The later part our K. hath left out the former I know not why he hath brought in except perhaps his hidden conceyt should be that the last part of my Wardword which is the remission to the Lords of her Ma â—ies Counsel was the first thing intended by me and inducing me to wryte which yet is euidently seene to be false for that the K. Wachword and iniuryes offered therin to Catholikes was the motiue inforcing rather then inducing to that worke and to oppose my ward to so slaÌ„derous a watch so that heer S.F. his Philosophical Maxime is fondly applyed or not applyed at all and consequâ—ntly his brag of hauing obserued thesame from the word wrytings of the learned ys vayne seing how vnlearnedly he vseth it But this is easily pardoned in a Knight and so let vs go forward After thiâ— he taketh in hand the tytle of my book which is A teÌ„perate wardword c. saying a he proclaymeth temperance in his tytle Epist. ibid. and pursueth the aâ—te of rayling in the whole processe following and in the end of all he persuadeth ruine both to Church comon-wâ—lth c. For my rayling I remit me to the iudgment of the indifferent Reader who wâ—l distinguish betwene rayling and round answering or rigorous reiection of an importune aduâ—rsarâ— that multiplyeth calumniatious without grouÌ„d number or measure especially in that kind of bloudy sycophancy wherâ—n the watching libel was wrytteÌ„ though I do confesse as before hath byn signified that I was the more earnest and eager somtyme for that I did imagine the said byring libel not to haue proceeded from the knight but from some K. of another kind not from S.F.H. of so honorable a house and calling but from some Crane some Wâ—lkinson S F. Presbytery of 〈◊〉 minâ—â—â—ers at Cadbury some Sipthorpe yf I remeÌ„ber wel their il fauored names Doctors and Rabbyns of his puritanical presbytery at Cadbury but now that I see the knights humility to be so great as to dishonour himselfe with taking the name of this worke vpon him I shal endeauour to vse more patience also with him in my answere except he ouer straine it sometymes by the intemperance of his tongue against Catholykes and so much of this But for the second which he obiecteth that I seeke the ruyne both of Church and comon wealth by my exhortation to peace atonement and mitigation in religion which afterwards goeth in my remitter to the Lords of her Ma tâ—es Counsel their Honors and not S r. F. worship or wisdome must be iudges of this poynt and why an exhortation to peace and vnion should be accounted a cause of publyke ruyne I see no cause nor yet reason of state or religion therin except the knyght his puritanical camp do hate peace following therin that other Maxime that in troubled waters is best fishing Which coniecture is shrewdly confirmed by the attempt of their Puritane Captaine the Earle of Essex brought by puritanisme into suche calamitie who hauing byn stout against peace with forrayne Princes for diuers yeares The Earle of Eâ—sex pitifully seduced by the Puritans vnder pretence of home security had wrought such a troubled water vnder haÌ„d in the meane space as yf his streame had not byn troubled and turned vpon him before his tyme he might chaunce to haue inhooked the greatest fish of England And whether S r. F. were one of those anglers or no I cannot tel being so farre absent nor wil I accuse him though he being of the sermon-sect and exercising society which vnder that occasion and pretence layd their hookes to this troublesome and
posâ—tions some of them being driuen also to the hangâ—ng ward as wel as Catholykes by their brethren protestantes L. Martyn Marprelateâ— c. so as S. F. tale seemeth rather a râ—diculous iest then a serious narration But let vs go forward He cometh at length which perhaps he leueled at in his first wordes of this his epistle to censure my inteÌ„tion in pleading for toleratioÌ„ and especially for offering the vewe oâ— my book to the Lordes of her Ma â—â—e Counsel which offendeth him much and therfore he sayâ—h thus or me S F. Epist. Pag. 7. Notwithstandiâ—g all his fawning and crowching to the â—eâ—â—rable lor as in his â—emitter their wisdomes I doub not wil easily fynd out his subtyle Synoâ—s intentionâ— who sâ—ameth not with a brasen face to seek to bring in â—is brasen horse loaden wit armed calamityes for Englands ruine c. This whoâ—e matter is handled afterward both in the remitter it self and other places of the book where the K. besides this blast of brasen words hath no one argument in the world to reply or to prooue any calamity eyther armed or vnarmed to be likely to be brought in by this brasen horse as he wil needs tearme it of mittigatioÌ„ or toleration The imagined brasen horse nor answereth he any one letter or sillable to the many vtilityes and publike emoluments which there I shew to be pretended and intended therby nor doth he so much as go about to answere or remooue any one of the great hurts daungers damages and inconueniences which I declare in my first Encounter partly to haue byn receaued already partly dayly imminent by the course held of chaÌ„ge of religâ—on and rigorous maner of pursuing the same only the poore man sheweth to feare extreamly that yf any toleration of Catholike religion should be permitted then his Pandora as Irenaeus calleth heresy would fly or fal to the ground presently â—rem lib. 2. cap. 54 lib. 4 cap 2. Fear of toleration in the puritans Which feare of Sir Francis is notwithstanding most dishonorable to him and his sect and quite contrary to that which at the beginning they preached to the world affirming nothing to be more reasonable or coÌ„uenient then to suffer both religions to stand togeather as at this day in Germany France and other places where both sortes are found to be permitted for greater peace and concord of the common-wealthes And why then should our K. so much feare ruine therby to his religion in England except only for the causes before cyted Towards the end of his Epistle he hauing censured myne intention as before yow haue hard he setteth downe his owne very confidently in these words Being called as it were into the field by him Ibidem I haue aduentured vpon the height of his swelling pride and haue shaped him a plaine and sound answere to the material poyntes c. wherby I hope Christian Reader thow shalt fynd me cleared and free from the force and fury of his false imputations and byting blowes c. Heere for that he remitteth the matter to the Christian Reader I am very wel content to subscribe to the same remission who first of all must needes iudge for me condemne him in the very first words that he alleageth to wit that he was called into the field by me wheras his Watchword being the first chalenge that sounded the trompet of warre Manifest vntruthes impudently auoucâ—ed my answere but only a necessary ward thervnto as both the title subiect of my book declareth how can he so confidently tel so open and manifest an vntruth and withaâ—l remit the same to the iudgment of the Reader except he hold him without iudgment or conscience And heere I would aske how farre this is from impudency and yet according to the same sute do follow the rest that is to say of my swelling pride of his playne and sound answere shaped to all material poynts and that he is fully cleered from all imputations of falshood c. For yf my pride be no more swelling then his mishaped answere is sound and material I may thinke my selfe a very huÌ„ble man And yf in Westminster halle S. F. should be accused of treason or felony or other greiuous criminations as many Catholike Priests are vpon lesse occasion and should cleere and free himselfe no better therin then here he doth in this reply from imputations of falshood he might quickely expect both iudgment and execution and consequently himselfe be driueÌ„ to that hanging ward which heere he threateneth to driue vs vnto And lastly wheras he wryteth for the coÌ„clusion of his Epistle that this answere of his being ended and published which I held my selfe bound quoth he in duty to do for thy satisfyieng gentle Reader and my owne câ—edit his ful resoâ—utioÌ„ is not to toyle any more by contending with such rayling and wrangling spirites c. This resolution I say of the K. though it were neuer so ful and firme at that tyme as being weary perhaps of so difficult a worke yet I doubt that it wil be brokeÌ„ and he inforced to toyle yet further in the matter yf he wil satisfie the reader or mayntayne his owne credit which poore credit he wil find I beleeue so much crased in steed of amended by this his reply as yf it were somwhat shaken before by the Watchword it wil be quite ouerthrowne now by this his owne Wastword and the answere thervnto and yf before it were battered or beaten it wil now be vtterly broken and shiuered in peeces seing that much more falshood deceypt and other infirmityes are found discouered in this his supply then were in the first assault and yf he were troubled before in defending he wil be toyled now The proof wherof I leaue to the trial and combat following wherunto our K. sayth that he hasteneth like a corragious defendant taking his farewel of the Reader in these words To our God I commend thee gentle reader and wil now hasten to ioyne the combat with this proud Romanist The K. commendation and farevvel tâ—uching his Encounters seuerally Thus he saith and so endeth his Epistle And yf when he nameth our good God he meane the common God of heauen and earth and of other Christians his haste to the combat may chance to be more then his good speed seing that this God is God of truth and not of shifts and falshoods which are heare discouered and consequently is like to proue no great good God to S. F. cause that standeth theron as the sequeal of this combate yf I be not deceyued wil declare wherunto I also to meet the K. do make my repaire with no lesse haste though I hope with better speed then S â— F. Hastings OTHER OBSERVATIONS VPON THE PREFACE OF O. E. TO THE REAder conteyning a ful answere therunto AS I haue made before some annotations and obseruations vpon Sir FraÌ„cis Hastings Epistle to
Encounter which is this that S ir F. H. being entred into a serious contemplation in the height of his careful watch ouer England and thinking to imitate perhaps herin the spirit of some hidden prophet whome he desired to resemble estemed it not only expedient but incident also to the vigilancy of the office of a general watchman taken vpon him by his owne election not by any mans coÌ„mission to forwarne the people not only of great and mighty fayned daungers hanging ouer them from Catholikes but also of innumerable new deuised blessings benefits and benedictions abounding among them and flowing to them daylie by the fortunate chaunge of ould religion into Protestancy The subiect of S F. book breaking forth into these words of fervour Pap. 2. Yf I should take vpon me to enter into the enumeration of all the beneâ—its and blessings that from the Almightie haue byn powred vpon this litle Isle of England c. And herevpon coÌ„cludeth that seing they had gotten so greatly already by the bargaine they should be merry and go forward and neuer thinke of returne c. and this was the beginning of his watch-word To which the Warder thinking it expedient to oppose himselfe VVard vvord taketh vp S. F. for a false and flattering Prophet by these wordes of Esay Esay 3. my people they that say thou art blessed are those that deceiue thee shewing further the great inconueniences hurts daungers damages and pernitious effects of such flattering tongues in common wealthes that himselfe doth contradict himselfe in this very poynt soone after talking nothing els but of feares frights and terrours by daungers and miseries imminent to our countrey A brag of blessings examined without specifying or setting downe to the coÌ„trary any one particular blessing at all comen hitherto to the realme or like to come by their new gospel but only feeding them with those general fayre words of fleering adulation which the warder holding for fond and contemptible in so manifest and important a matter reiecteth them without further answere And then passing on to the poynt it selfe more in particuler he reduceth all benefits and blessings that haue happened to England or can happeÌ„ vnto two general heads or branches that is spiritual touching religion and temporal concerning the common wealth and in both these kinds he sheweth by many weightie arguments that not blessings but cursings not benefits but calamityes haue are lyke to fal vpon our couÌ„try by this fatal vnfortunate change of Religion giuing manifest examples in both sortes and concludeth with a brief repetition of all and this is the summe of the warders answere to this first Encounter of imagined blessings But vpon this poynt replyeth now agayne the K. in this his Apology or defence A vayne reply by the Knight which vpon iust causes as yow shal see I haue termed a VVast-word and first of all he maketh a solemne florish by detesting all flattery and alleageth diuers sentences of sundry Poëts and Philosophers in despraise of flattery and then addeth that there is farre greater flattery in Rome to the Pope then he vseth in this place and further that there was no contradiction betwixt his words of present daungers now imminent to England and of former blessings by their ghospel receyued so as though England be not blessed at the present yet hath it byn heretofore and then letting passe all that euer the warder hath said in the examination of the foresaid two heads of spiritual teÌ„poral blessings he bringeth in ten new benedictions freshly framed out of the forge of his owne imagination to the supply of his former want assuring vs that they are proper fruits of his new ghospel ghospellers Ten nevv fresh blessings And that they haue ensued by the former change of religion which blessings benedictions he auoweth to be vnity of doctrine Liberty of reading Scriptures in vulgar languages Publique prayer in English exercise of good works more then beâ—ore freedome from persecution deliuerance from intolerable exactions long peace power in forrayne countryes wealth of the land multitude of subiects seuenfold increased since the beginning of this change of religion This is the summe of his Apologie to this Encounter VVarn-vvoâ—e replyeth our which cometh agayne the warneâ— now who before was only a warder as yow haue heard and besyds his wards warneth also the watchmaÌ„ of his wants in this his VVast-word shewing first that all his defence is but verbal and impertinent speach and consequently iustly termed by him a VVast-word for that to flatter and detest I flattery at one tyme is no defence or iust excuse of flattery but rather folly and impudency ioyned to flattery and that it litle easeth him or helpeth his cause if there should be so great flattery in Rome as he sayth seing that this iustifieth not nor authorizeth any flattery vsed by him in England that it is vayne and ridiculous to vaunt of blessings past and not present seing the present and future is that which importeth most and not that which is past and more ridiculous for that if they were true blessings which are past they were brought in and lefte by the old Catholique religion and if they be not now present it is for that the new religion hath lost them that the ten new felicityes now freshly deuised and brought in by the K. are neyther true in themselues nor in the nature of blessing but rather quite contrarie and others nothing pertinent to the purpose and diuers of them of no consideration at all but rather fond and contemptible mockeryes And finally that S r. F. his running out of the feild The Knight flyeth the true coÌ„bate and flying from all the wayes of tryal offred by the warder both about Spiritual and temporal blessings and cursings is a playne argument that he dareth not ioyne really and substantially in the combat but only to florish for fashion sake and to make a shew of skyrmishing in the ayer for holding vp his credit with the bare name of a new Apologie keeping himselfe warily notwithstaÌ„ding within his owne listes only and farre of from the true Encounter and running now and then when he is sore pressed behind the cloath of state that is to say protecting himselfe with the name authority of her Ma tie and of the present gouernment where all other arguments fayle him for his defence and this in general is the summe of all this Encounter with the K. Now must we come to examine what his Minister champion or martial procter O. E. hath brought in his supply coming foorth after the other And first in general I must say in his prayse and commendation The argumeÌ„t and summe of O. E. his â—nsvvere that he is farre more impertinent impudent and impotent in his wryting rayling then is the K. or any other perhaps that euer took pen in hand for hauing taken the visard of O. E.
aske why he reprehendeth not Cambden and other protestant wryters that say to her Ma â—ie Diua Elizabetha at euery word but all may passe with these men so it be not to the Pope And yet one thing yow must note that whatsoeuer Canonist or other Catholique do attribute to the Pope it is not in respect of his person but of his office and place vnder Christ so that if they flatter they flatter the office not the man but Diua Elizabetha flattereth the person and so it is flat and grosse flattery But let vs go forward Yow haue heard then the two first wayes wherby the K. goeth about to excuse himselfe from flattery wherof the first is but fond and the second fraudulent there followeth a third which is both impertinent and ridiculous For wheras he is accused by the warder to be coÌ„trary to himselfe A very foolish defence in that telling vs of so many blessings and English benedictions yet in the very same lyues confesseth infinite feares frightes and daungers of the realme he hath nothing in effect to answere but that EnglaÌ„d hath byn blessed for tymes past by the entraÌ„ce of their ghospel though now through their vnkyndnes they may be feard to be neare to misery which kind of defence how childish it is who seeth not and is as much as if he should say the head and face and first shew of his ghospel was fayer frolike as are the sweete singing Syrienes but the taile is troublesome and end pernicious and byteth like the scorpion But let vs heare both the warder the Apoâ—oger together in their owne speach Pag. 2. He that wil consider saith the warder with iudgment The present state of English blessings and indifferency the present estate of matters in England and round about it and this especially by reason of change made in religion and shal read together the fleering tale which Syr F. telleth vs in the first lynes of his book of the infinite and innumerable blessings receyued as he saith by the said chaÌ„ge he wil eyther say that the man lacked wit and discourse to see the deformity and contradiction of his owne talke or els modestie and shamefastnes in vttering it For notwithstanding the rare partes and good intentions of her Maiestie in this her gouernment which no man denyeth nor yet conioyneth with the euil successe of this alteration of religion as wel knowne not to haue proceeded of her owne inclination at the beginning who is there so simple that discouereth not or so euil affected that rueth not from his hart the difficultyes already growne and growing dayly by this most vnfortunate and fatal alteration of religion The vvachman contrary to himselfe which this man calleth the fountayne and welspring whence all the rest of this our litle Islandes benefits and blessings do yssue and flow Nay doth not the seely man himselfe in all this furious skâ—rneful libel of his endeauour to lay before vs a thousand feares and fryghtes of imminent perills which he sayth hang ouer vs by the diuision of hartes of hands of iudgements of affections of partes and partialityes and factions within the realme or is his whole argument any thing els in effect but a timerous abodement of infinite ruynes that do beset the realme at this day And are not his owne wordes these after a long discourse of peryls I doubt not deare countrymen but that yow are men of VVisdome and can easelie conceaue what daungers we stand in by that which hath byn set downe before And after a litle The lyfe of religion of Queene and countrie is at the stake And how then doth he pipe vnto vs this fayned note of melancholie musicke amidst so many dreadful cares and sorrowes hath he not read that Musica in luctu importuna narratio Eccles 22. It is importune chaunting when other men are weeping This said I then what answereth our knight with his Ministers now after so long so large and so mature deliberation of two yeares Yow shal haue it briefelie deliuered First they runne againe a very graue shifte to an other verse or two out of a poet against flaterie and dissimulation for with this kynd of armoure Winchester schole where afterward he braggeth to haue byn brought vp did somwhat furnish our knight Encount 6. therfore oftentymes we haue store therof But what more nay no more argument or reason alleadged at all but only this sentence noted in the margent No contrariety betwixt our present dangers and our former blessings VVherby he yeildeth to his aduersarie in the thing it selfe as yow see and varyeth onlie in the tyme confessing that England is not blessed for the present but was in old dayes which being past it remayneth rather cursed now if perils cares and frightes be curses and yet in his former booke if yow remember all seemed to be present bâ—essednes Foolish trifling in matter of moment who can suffer such tryfling in a matter of such moment And yet delighteth he so much in this deuise of his conning distinction of tymes past and present that he maketh a long narration ther-vpon how the people of Israel were blessed vnder diuers Kinges VVastvvord Pag 8. and namelie Iosias for a tyme and yet afflicted in the end for their ingratitude by this said Kings fearful slaughter In which example though I could trip him for alleaging a false cause of Iosias murther for he was slayne through his owne fault not the peoples for that expresly against Gods commandement 4. Reg. 25. 2. Paral. 35. he would needs fight with Nechao King of Egypt yet am I not delighted with this example for that it proueth nothing but that which it should not to wit that our blessings of England be not present Iosias slaughter euil applied but past and includeth further some euil aboadment towards her Ma tieâ— person as some may interpret for which cause it was not the wysâ—st part in the world for the K. to bring it in but that he seeth not or discerneth not alwayes what maketh for him or against him No way then can S. F. deliuer himselfe soundlie from the charge of flatterie in his former fond florish of protestant blessings except he could shew vs in deed some special Catalogue of blessings benedictions which England hath receyâ—ed eyther spiritual or temporal or both by changâ—ment vnto his religion more then it had beâ—ore vnder Catholique Religion which obligation of playne proofe the K. preceyuing hath taken vpon him at length to set vpon that enterprise and laying his head togeather with the consistorie of his ministers hath shaped vs out tenne new fresh benedictions and blessings neuer hard of before or had I thinke in consideration which now we are to examine and discusse as they ly in order But first we must see what Minister O. E. bringeth after the K. whose book came to my hand when this was writteÌ„ and I haue
voluntarie warres Ibid. Pag. â—7 as honorable respects hau moued vs to vndertake So are his words and consider heere discreete reader the wit of our newe councelor which maketh our warres voluntary vpon wantonnesse of wealth and not vpon necessitie as the wysest Princes are wont to pretend when they demaund helpes of their subiectes Moreouer as this K. is lauish in bragging of riches and voluntarie warres so is his boasting playnlie Thrasonical when he talketh of his owne going and assistance to the same warres For in his Epistle of his wach-word to the Reader he telleth him verie seriouslie with big wordes that to himselfe he hath set downe this law Thrasonical boasting that shal neuer be repealed that if his wealth were millions if he could bring thousands of fighting handeÌ„s to the feild yf his lyfe were ten thousand liues his wealth his strength his lyfe and all should goe to be spent hazarded and ended against that Antichrist of Rome and the ambitious tyrant of Spayne c. And that with confidence boldnes and assurance of the goodnes of his cause he and his fellowes with hart and hand wil be prest and ready to take their places and to marche in the feild and their to set forward with a swift foot against these enemies c. Did euer glorious Thraso vpon the stage speak bigger wordes then these and yet I do not heare that the K. in fact is so great a kil-kow as heere he maketh him-selfe nor yet that in such warres as haue byn offred voluntarie or inuoluntarie hath he aduentured any one lyfe or brought any one troop of fighting handes to the feild nor hath byn so swyft of foot as he is in wordes but rather hath bene content to look on whiles others marched and to sit at home with his Ministers whiles other men went to fight and consequentlie that these wordes and wishes are farre greater then his actes and gestes And so much of this blessing Wherfore now to come to the last blessing which is multitude of people The 10. blessing encrease of people encreased mightilie as he sayth since her Ma ties first entrance to the crowne a great blessing of God sayth he powred vpon this land which God at the least hath seauen-fold encreased to the number that at her entrance she found Pag. 27. If I should stand with this computist about the precise number of seauen-fold encreased and aske him how he knoweth it or who wil beleeue it or how probable it is that the people of EnglaÌ„d should be seauen tymes as many now as they were fortie yeares agoe I should I thinke pose him hardlie and proue him perhaps no lesse lauish in this then in the former but yet supposing it were or be so how can this benediction so poore a one at it is be attributed as peculiar to his new ghospel seing that other religions engender also besyds Protestants And for example let vs imagine that Catholike religion had endured stil in England for these later 40. yeares or that the Iewes or Turkes religion had byn in steed therof would not the people haue encreased also vnder them thinke yow yea much more vnder the later for that they professe Poligamy and the multitude of many wyues and yet were it much simplicitie to say that this encrease of Children were a special blessing of their religion or testimonie of the truth therin conteyned And the like may I say of ProtestaÌ„ts though I confesse that in this poynt of generation I do yeild them some priuiledge aboue Catholikes for that all sortes do marrie among them and fewe or none do thinke of those Eunuches commended by Christ who geld them-selues for the Kingdome of heauen Holy Eunuches Math. 19. but rather all kynd of states sexes vocations offices and ages as wel fryars monks nunes priests chaplaynes ministers and bishops as all others do fal to maryage and multiplication and consequentlie no maruaile if the people haue encreased more then before but whether this be a blessing or a cursing a benefit or a burthen to the common wealth let the Parishes and Parishioners of England be asked who by statute are bound to maintayne their brats when the parents are not able And with this I wil end this goodly ranke of blessings which are so vayne and fond as I may say to S.F. for bringing them foorth as S. Augustine said to Faustus Manicheus about a like foolish narration Aug. lib. 16. contr Faust. Manich. cap. 2â— O hominem se cogitantem dictorem sed alium non cogitantem contradictorem vbi est acumen tuum Oh fond man that thought onlie how himself might speak or tel vs blessings and not thinking what an other would answere where is thy wit and then goeth forward to aske him further An in mala causa non posses aliter sed mala causa te vana loqui coegit malam verò caeusam habere nemo te coâ—git Could yow do no otherwise then yow haue done in so euil a cause trulie your euil cause might force yow to speake so vainlie as yow haue done but no man forced yow to haue an euel cause A brief addition about O.E. Yt may be good reader thou doest maruale why O. E. is kept so long from the stage seing that I haue promised him a corner now and then to tel his tale but the truth is that his parte came not in til now for that he maketh no seueral tract of blessings as doth the K. but only a particular brief enumeration of ten that is six spiritual foure teÌ„poral called corporal by the K t. of which kynd yet he maketh fyue and lyke number of spiritual so as the Minister according to his vocation is more spiritual by one blessing then the K t. and lesse corporal though perhaps not lesse corpulent They disagree also in the order names and substance of their blessings as before I haue shewed laying both their listes together now we shal examine how they wil ioyne in defending them-selues and their ghospel froÌ„ the curssings which the VVarder threapeth vpon them as ensuing by change of religion and in this poynt part of this first Encounter I shal be forced to alter somwhat the manner of my answere already made to S.F. therby to geue roome for the Minister to enter with him OF THE CONTRARY effectes to blessings that is to say of cursinges rather and calamities brought in by change of religion both spiritual and temporal and how Syr F. and his minister do answer them CAP. XII AFTER the short ydle defence which our knight in the beginning of this Encounter did shape to the charge of flatterie as before yow haue heard he entred presentlie for better iustification of the vauntes made in his Wachword into the enumeration of the former ten blessings which now we haue examined and after that presentlie shutteth vp his whole Encounter as though all were dispatched and he had answered all
application of our particuler case of the vniuersal Churche her teaching and therby discouer the deep lurking of our souldiour-masked minister When we Catholykes say that our fayth is taught The application of the former discourse or deliuered vnto vs by the vniuersal Churche our meanings that albeit particular men as Priests Pastors or preachers do immediatly deliuer the same vnto vs yet for that they do yt not as of them-selues nor as their owne but from the said Catholyke vniuersal Churche and by her order we say truly and properlie and cannot say otherwyse but that we are taught it by thesaid vniuersal Churche which is the body and not by perticuler men which are parts only euen as when a man striketh an other with his foot or hand it cannot be said so properly that the foot or hand strook him as the man him-self and this argumeÌ„t ruÌ„nneth also in our aduersaries cause yf he had wit to see it for when a maÌ„ is taught at this day the protestant fayth of England allowed by the state may he not say more truly and properly that it is the teaching of the vniuersal Churche of England then of this or that particuler contemptible minister but this he foresaw not when he came in with his actionis sunt suppositorum therby wil see what reason I had to ad stultorum for so much as his obiection besydes the ignorance and falshood therof ouerthroweth no lesse him-selfe and the teaching of his Church Ignorance of O.E. yf it had any force so much of this which indeed is ouer much for the fondnes of the instance There remayneth then that part only of his babble where he cryeth out that our religion is not Catholike but his and that ours is buylded only vpon Popes which are mutable and subiect to error his vpon the eternal truth of God c. All which to yes though they haue byn sufficiently refuted before in that I haue alleaged and a thousand tymes before that agayne by other writers yet these men as hungry flyes beaten of from hunny do returne stil with the very same clamors agayne for lack of other better matter and heere yow see are two poynts the first whether we or they be Catholikes and then whether we depend of Popes and they of God For the first which of our Churches is truly Catholike much hath byn said or at leastwyse may be gathered by the former discourse about the ancient rule of true Catholike fayth VVho are Catholykes but more particularly it remayneth to be handled in this fellowes first new foolish chalenge added after this for Syr F. wherfore heere I wil say no more of that mad paradox for which shame ynough abydeth O.E. in that when I shal come to answere it Now for the second about our depending of Popes and they of God and the scriptures it hath appeared by the two or three precedeÌ„t chapters how they depend ech man of their owne fancy and iudgment of scripture and not of God or godlines and as for our depending of Popes as heads successiuely of our Churche we confesse it willingly and do glory therin that we are not heretical acheuâ—â— as our aduersaries are but yet to meet with this prating calumniators exprobation we say that we depend not of any Pope as a priuate or particular man Hovv Catholyke men depend of the Pope in their religion and subiect to infirmities eyther of ignorance euel lyfe or the like but as he is head and cheife pastor of Christs vniuersal Churche Gods substitute vpon earth to whom he hath assured the perpetual assistance of his holy spirit and of the omnipotent power of his aeternal Godhead euen vnto the worlds end and by vertue of this promis let Peters successor be neuer so vnâ—earned rude feeble or infirme as hardly can be chosen one meaner then himselfe was in all or most of these poynts before he receyued vertue from his maister yet shal his learning be incontrolable for gouernment of Gods Churche taking that helpe by councels doctors other learned meanes which he may and Gods prouidence wil euer prouide that he shal do his rudenes also shal be wysedome his feeblenes fortitude his infirmity vertue in respect of his place and dignity and this did our ancient holy Fathers esteeme the matter not by the talents or merit of the man as heretikes bable but by his office place and dignitie As for example who knoweth not but that Pope Damasus before mentioned in the decree of the three Emperors was not perhaps the learnedest man in the world nor otherwise the best qualifyed for humayne giftes though he were also a notable man but other might exceed him in these poynts Yet do the said Emperors preferre him before all in directing men for their fayth and beleefe as yow haue heard S. Hierome also was farre more learned then he by studdy as all men wil confesse and himselfe also for that he wrote often to S. Hierome to requyre his opinion in poyntes of learning and yet when the matter came to determyne poyntes of fayth S. Hierome subiecteth himselfe to him with that humility as a chyld and scholler would vnto his father and Maister and much more for that he saith most absolutely in a most hard and perilous controuersie of that tyme not yet determined to wit whether one or three hypostacies or subsisteÌ„ces were to beholden in the Trinitie The faith humilitie of saynst Hier. epist. ad Damas. the most learned humble father I say writeth thus to Pope Damasus out of Syria Obtestor BeatitudineÌ„ tuam vt mihi Epistolis tuis siue dicendarum siue tacendarum hypostasâ—on detur authoritas I beseech your Hol. that yow wil giue me leaue and authoritie by your letter to hold or deny three hypostacies Loe heere the different spirit in a learned humble Catholike saynct from an ignorant prowd contemptuous heretike S. Hierome regardeth not the personal partes of Pope Damasus but his place roome and dignity of his office our heretikes not only do contemne his place but also most maliciouslie do lode the persons of al or most Popes with infinite calumniations and slaunders therby to discredit their office and ordinances what then may we say of these men but that they are gyuen ouer as S. Paul sayth in reprobum sensum to a reprobate sense and synne maliciouslie and desperately to rayle against their owne consciences God ameÌ„d them and let all wyse men take heed of them As for the last and lowdestâ— ly which this prating minister affirmeth VVhether Catholyke religion be ful of nouelties and heresies to wit that Catholike religion is ful of new noueltyes and old heresyes this also is to be discussed in his foresaid chalenge when it commeth to be aunswered wherunto I might remit the matter without saying any thing here as I meane to do but only to premonish the reader of two poynts that there I am to handle
Caluyn in matter of the Queenes Supremacy which he denyeth Beza in the whole gouernment of their Churche Or why should I beleeue S. F. or his new masters of EnglaÌ„d rather theÌ„ these that were more learned then he or his or what reason rule or foundation haue any of these men to beleeue their owne opinion more then others but only self wil and fancy This then is the first and greatest spiritual benediction or malediction rather that I fynd to haue happened to our realme and nation by this wooful alteration of religion that wheras before we had a direct rule squyre pole-starre to follow which was the vniuersal Churche now euery man being set at liberty holdeth beleeueth and teacheth what he listeth Nor is there any way or meane left to restrayne him for straight way he appealeth bodlie and confidentlie to the Scriptures and there he wil be both maister and Pilot boteswayne him-self to gouerne the bark at his pâ—easure for he admitteth no iudge no interpreter no authoritie no antiquitie nor any other manner of tryal which is the greatest madnes and malediction that euer could happen among men of reason And the very same cause that moued the Warder to be so liberal then in setting downe this poynt hath moued me now to repeat the same againe in this place And what do yow think that the knight his champion haue replyed to all this playne and manifest demonstration would not yow think that both of them for their credits sake should haue buckled vp them-selues to ioyne in this yssue with the warder shewing what certainty they haue or which of the two wayes they wil take proposed by him seeing he sayth there are no other or that they should theÌ„-selues at least appoynt some other way but consider good reader the force of euident truth they are so blanked and their mouthes so shut vp with this interrogation of the warder as the K t. thought it best to passe it wholie ouer with silence as before hath byn touched The minister with more shame then the K t. hath tatled somwhat Idle tatling in a grauâ— question telling vs that our religion is not Catholyke that the vniuersal Church could not deliuer it vnto vs quia actiones sunt suppositorum as yow haue heard that StapletoÌ„ teacheth that the Churche hath power to proue taxe and consigne the books of holy Scripture And that vniuersal tradition is the most certayne interpreter therof And finally that the fayth of Papists is buylt vpon the Popes fancie and opinion and it is ful of nouelties and old heresies and the like as before yow haue heard All these tatlings he hath vpon this discourse before rehearsed of the warder and almost in as many words as I haue recyted theÌ„ but to the matter it selfe about certainty or vncertainty in religion ne griquidem he answereth no one word at all only to the later parte or appendix of the discourse where the warder sayth that to make the matter more playne how protestants haue no other rule of beleef he asketh S. F. not of any Catholyke Doctors nor auncient Fathers whome he esteemeth not but of their owne new Doctors Luther Caluyn Beza and the like authors of their owne sects why English Protestants at this day should preferre their owne iudgments before these also whom they graÌ„t to haue had great store of the holy ghost in all matters doctrines and interpretation of Scripture where they dissent from them To this I say all the other storme being past it seemed good to the minister to make his answere in these wordes But sayth this Noddy why should yow beleeue more your owne opinions then Caluyn concerning the Q. supremacy Luther concerning the Real presence and Beza in the Churche gouernment I answere first that these mennes priuate opinions concerne not fundamental poynts of fayth Pag. 21. A most foolish ansvvere of O. E. about Luther Caluyn c. and therfore they are not to be brought foorth for instance in this cause where we talk of the foundations and reasons of Christian fayth Marke wel his answere good reader iudge who is the noddy he sayth two things the one that the iudgments of Luther Caluin and Beza be but priuate opinions among them the other that the poynts wherin they differ from them to wit the real presence in the Sacrament her Ma ties Supremacy ecclesiastical and the whole gouernemeÌ„t of the Churche are no fundamental poynts of their faith For the first I would gladly know what authority is auayleable among them in teaching preaching and interpretation of Scriptures yf Luther Caluyn and Beza be reiected as priuate and particuler men where they differ from them our Doctors and Churche they do defy the ancient Fathers they look not willingly after them their owne parlament this maÌ„ sayth a litle before doth not appoynt but admit their religioÌ„ only who then is hee or who are they that must determine and defyne in this case For the second yf the difference with Luther about the real presence of Christs real body in the Sacrament be no fundamental poynt of fayth seing they accuse vs of the highest cryme vnder heauen about the same that is of idolatry and holding a creature to be the creator and we them againe of most heynous blasphemy highest wickednes vpon earth in discrediting Christ in his owne words that said it was his bodie his whole Church that euer so vnderstood him vnto this day yf the matter of supremacy be no fundamental poynt of fayth VVhat pointes are fundamental in protestants doctryne wherby all their ecclesiastical hierarchie standeth at this day in England as their Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and other prelates and parsons of the Spiritualty who otherwise must needs be playne intruders and meere lay men If their whole gouernmeÌ„t of their Churche be not fundamental wherof dependeth whether they haue any true ministers preachers and teachers lawfully allowed or no consequentlie whether their Sacraments be Sacraments and be administred by them that haue authoritie so to doe if all these poynts I say be not fundamental in O.E. opinion what are fundamental And what Atheisme doth this Martial minister diuels deane bring in vpon vs But beleeue me good reader these good fellowes do only eate of the ministerie and beleeue as please them and this being a compagnion of many occupations wil liue by that which wil yeild him most according to that also shal be his doctrine and beleef Of their great grand-father fryer Martyn Luther he sayth here in the words folowing his former answere Pag. â—1 O. E. his contemptious speach of Luther and Caluyn VVe suspend our opinion and giue no approbation to Luthers opinion concerning the carnal presence of Christs body in the Sacrament for that we see the doctrine to be newe and not taught by the Apostolyke Churche nay we find yt to be repugnant to the Apostles doctrine deliuered in Scriptures
c. Marke the arrogancy of thâ—s petty chaplaâ—n we suspend we see we finde who are those wee I pray yow Oh that Doctor Martyn Luther were aliue againe to canuase this arrogant barking bastardly whelp of his he would proue him but a very demy puppie Of Caluyn he sayth when Caluyn was better informed about the Supremacy he changed his style and retracted his opinion but where and when I pray yow why haue yow not noted the place and tyme for Caluyn was to great a man I trow to change style or retract opinions were it neuer so false or impious and whether he changed in this let his Elizeus that had his cloke spirit of wickednes double I meane Theodor Beza be witnes who is more to be beleeued in this case then O. E. that is but a fugitiue of Caâ—uyns campe going about to betray his Captayne Lastlie about the gouernment of his English Churche he addeth concerning Beza Pag. 22. I say that in external gouernment it is not necessarie that all Churches should concur and agree Loe his saying and albeit he say madlie yet I trust he wil not say but that in one and the selfe same Churche agreeing all in one true doctryne of Iesus Christ as in the former leafe he affirmeth all sortes of protestants do it is necessarie they agree in the substantial poynts at least of some gouernement among them-selues Pag. 18. as for example Atheistical Doctrine O.E. of some one head the cheife members therof as whether the Prince be supreeme head ecclesiastical and may make Bishops and whether the Bishops be true Prelates and may make ministers and whether they be of Gods or the diuels making that are so made which is the proper controuersie betweene them of England and Beza at this day and was with Iohn Caluyn also while he lyued To deny this I say were a very mad new doctrine for souldiour O.E. to teach now vnder a ministers coate to wit that none of all these things are necessarie poynts of doctrine but indifferent rather and that in his Churche a minister a ministrel a preacher and a pyrate a bishop and a bytesheep a deane and a diuel are all one And that this fellow and his compagnions haue no religion nor conscience in saying and denying The Suruey of pretended holy discipline c. printed by Io. VVolf 159â— cap 2â— fol. â—54 admitting or reiecting at their pleasures it may appeare by one of their publyke books printed and set foorth against the puritanes where they haue a whole Chapter of accusations against the said puritanes for reiecting conteÌ„ning new ghospelling wryters of their owne when they make against them which yet yow see practised here by O. E. him-self though no Puritane and that euen against the very cheife heads and syres of both their religions Luther Caluyn Beza yea some are of opinion that O.E. was the Author of that book wherin the Puritanes are so eagerly argued for this fault of coÌ„temning their owne wryters wheÌ„ they make against them though I cannot easely beleeue the same for that it seemeth les fondly writteÌ„ in that kynd then could be expected of this maÌ„nes shallow cacitie that wrote this doltish answere to the Wardword but be it how it wil yow shal see the Puritanes taken vp very sharply by protestants in that book for reiecting both their owne authors and auncient Fathers which yet yow see this arrogant foole doth practise heere in the one I meane touching their owne and yow shal heare afterward how egregiously his fellowes dâ— the like in the other that is to say concerning the auncient Fathers But first let vs see what is obiected to the Puritanes in the former poynt In a certayne place Pellican Bullinger Bucer Illyricus Suruey c. 28. Pap. â—54 and Musculus all great Doctors among the Lutherans being brought in against the Puritane doctrine Cartwright answereth them thus Puritans coÌ„teÌ„pt of their ovvne Doctors If they were for one a hundred they could not beare downe the Apostle to wit standing with him as he presumeth But after these is brought in Luther himselfe interpreting a peece of Scripture otherwise then they would haue it but they answere that his exposition is out of season T. Cartvv li. 2. Pag. 313. 314. Then is brought in Bishop Ridly and brother Bucer great doers in K. Edwards dayes in England but the first is dismissed thus Bishop Ridley being a partie in this cause ought to be no witnes the second thus Ibid. pag. 398. Bucer hath other grosse absurdityes sometymes Homer sleepeth his reasons are ridiculous c. Iewel and Fox do folow but Fox is shaken of with this saying that he took greater payne in his story to declare what is done then how iustlie or vniustlie how conueniently or vnconuenieÌ„tlie it was done Iewel receyued this iyrke as a contumely ingrauen in his tombe as the Protestant complayneth B Iewel calleth the doctryne of the ghospel wantonnesse Ibi. Pag. 11â— Finally they write thus of all the cheif English protestants in K. Henry K. Edward Q. Mary and in this Q. tyme before them-selues their knowledge was in part T. Catvv li. 1. Pag. 196. and being sent out in the morning or 〈◊〉 the Sunne of the ghospel was rysen so high they might ouer see many things which those which are not so sharpe of sight as they were may see for because that which they want in the sharpnes of sight they haue by the benefit clearnes of the Sunne and light greater then in their dayes Loe heere the growing and disagreeing protestant fayth and euery man his new light and lanterne in his hand Whosoeuer cometh after presumeth to see more then his fellow that went before him Wher wil this matter end but marke their wrangling spirites one within an other the puritanes are sorely reprehended for this contemptuous vsing their owne authors but are the puritanes more arrogant or bolder in this poynt then yow haue heard O.E. before euen with the first parent of their profession As for the old Doctors of the ancient Cath. Churche Suruey Pag. 329. the foresaid book of protestaÌ„ts hath also a special chapter of examples of the Puritanes contempt against them calling S. Ignatius scholler to S. Iohn the Euangelist a counterfet and vayne man S. Irenaeus is reiected except sayth the Suruey he wil frame his speech after the new cut Sur. pag. â—3â— Annot Bezae in act â—4 1. Timoth. 5. euen according to Bezaes pleasure Iustinus Martyr being vrged that lyued presentlie after the Apostles answere is made that in the dayes of Iustine there began to peepe out in the ministerie some things Th. Cartvv li 2. Pag. 621. which went from the simplicitie of â—he ghospel To S. Iustine is added S. Hierome whom they answere thus Corruption groweth in tyme as the tymes are so are they that lyue in them there is not such sinceritie to be
Henry Kings of FraÌ„ce the States of the low countreys the people of Portugal who haue fallen into diuers troubles warres and disasters not-withstanding they contynued the masse and were Catholyks in religion But I would aske O. E. whether these troubles came by their chauÌ„ge of religion or noe For yf they did not then are they impertinent to our purpose which is to shew that by change of religion commonly do ensue troubles but not that only by this meanes disasters are incurred as though there were no other for that Catholyke Princes people also may incurre troubles by other meanes then by change of religion but they auoyd those which this change doth bring with yt Change of religion in France and Flanders Wherfore this noddy is discouered to speake nothing to the purpose in bringing in those fiue examples wherof foure not-with-standing are wholy against him-selfe for that all the troubles which he mentioneth to haue happened to Catholyke Princes and people in France and Flaunders haue byn occasioned by change of religion inforced vpon them by others as the world knoweth and not by â—heir owne willes and so hauing seene what â—his minister hath answered to the Warders â—reface of temporal hurts we may imagine â—ow substantially he wil satisfie afterward â—o the points them-selues wherof the first â—ower are those that follow And first saith the warder yf religion had not byn chaunged her Ma tie at this day had had a most fâ—orishing Kingdome VVarnvvord Pag. 8. vnited both to her and amonge them-selues in religion 1 Strength and felicity by vnion iudgment affection fidelity and frend-â—hip as other realmes Cath. of the world are seene to bee as ours for aboue a thousand yeares togeather with much honour and felicity is knowne to haue remayned 2 Security Heerof had ensued that none of these feares and terrors of conquests inuasions assaults treasons conspiraties the lyke which this VVach-man endeauoreth to lay before vs had euer come in conâ—ideration for that England vnited in yt selfe hath euer synce it was a monarchy made other Kingdomes and prouinces round abouâ— yt to feare her forces as by matters happened in France Ireland and Scotland for many ages is euident and she neuer greatly feared any Thirdly England had had her Ma tie at this day by all likelyhood a ioyful mother of many faire and princely children 3 Issue of her Maiestie for that the principal cause of her graces not marrying is to be presumed to haue proceeded of the differenâ— religion of forrayne princes who desired thâ— same on the one side and one the other thâ— inequality of blood in her owne subiects for such aduancement For to attribute this great resolution of heâ— Ma tie to the only loue of sole lyfe and maydâ—-head I doubt how yt can be iustifiable seinâ— that amoÌ„g Catholyks where such profesioâ— is more praysed and practised they vse sometymes to draw out euen vowed nunnes from â—heir cloysters to marriage for so weightie a â—ause as is the sauing of succession in so great a â—rowne as England is knowne to be And â—mong Protestants virginity is not of that neâ—essity or meryt as for yt to incurre so great â—â—conueniences notwith-standing the base â—nd seruile flattery of this crouching Knight â—ho casteth in now and then the memory of 〈◊〉 mayden Queene without respecting the â—eadly wound which his countrey receyueth â—â—erby Foorthly of this had followed the sure estaâ—â—ishment of the succession of this imperial â—â—owne in the blood and race of the vnited â—â—yal houses of York and Lancaster 4 EstablishmeÌ„t of successioÌ„ and of 〈◊〉 lâ—ne of the noble K. Henry the 7. which â—ne being now to end with her Ma tie in the â—â—rect discent is lyke to bring great daungers 〈◊〉 the realme For albeyt there want not of â—â—llateral branches yet their causes are otherâ—ayes so implicated for diuers â—espects but â—â—ecially by difference of religion which had â—uer happened yf the chaunge had not byn â—ade as no man can tel what wil be the end â—â—d most men do feare extreame calamityes â—â—erby Thus saith he Wher-vnto for the first two â—â—ints our minister answereth nothing in â—â—ect First secoÌ„d inconuenience feare daunger but that the VVarder mistaketh S. F. meaning 〈◊〉 think him to haue spoken any thing of feare eyâ—â—â— of forrayne inuasions or domestical treasons but â—â—at is this to the purpose had yt not byn better that all this had byn aduoyded Buâ— heare him further Pag. 30. But suppose saith he Poperâ— had byn continued how could this noddy haue giuen 〈◊〉 warrant that we should haue byn neyther oppugâ—eâ— by enemyes abroad nor by traytors at home VVaâ—nâ— Henry the 3. of France excommunicated by the Popâ— oppugned by his subiects murdered by a Dominicaâ— fryar notwith-standing his zeale in popery Marke heere the mannes wit there be twâ— parts of his demaund the first how the Waâ—der could warrant c. wher-vnto is easiâ—â— answered that such hurts as came by alteratiâ—â— of religion as diuision of mynds iudgemenâ— and affections c. had byn easily warranteâ— yf religion it self had not byn altered The second part about K. Henry the thirâ— of Fraunce is ridiculous About HeÌ„ry late K. of France for he was not troubled for changing of religion him-selfe bâ— for being presumed to fauour them vnder-haâ—â— that meant to change religion for the deaâ— of noble Princes as all the world knowetâ— hauing as diuers write giuen his oath aâ—â— fidelitie to the contrary and receyued the Sâ—crament for confirmation therof and yet yt eyther presumption or ignorance in tâ—â— compagnion so bodly to affirme that the Poâ—â— did excoÌ„municate the said King for this faâ—â— which excommunication no man euer yâ— saw published To the third principal poynt about the prâ—bability of noble issue in her Ma tie yf chanâ—â— of religion had not byn 3 Inconuenience lack of iâ—sue royal this parasite prâ—leth as yf he were Iack daw shewing wil 〈◊〉 talke but lacking wit to say any thing to the â—urpose telling vs only that yf it had pleased â—er Ma tie to haue married she might as wel â—aue marryed in protestant religion as in Caâ—holyke and that their women may haue fayre â—rincely children as wel as ours and that â—â—uers Cath. Princes did seeke her marriage â—nd amongst others the K. of Spayne And â—hat the french K. sister at this day is marryed â—hough she be a protestant and that Q. Mary â—as marryed and yet had no children and diâ—ers other such trifling toyes which we deny â—ot but say that they are impertinent and â—o not touch the substance it selfe of the â—atter meant by the Warder which is that 〈◊〉 a Cath. state there would haue byn other â—anner of instance made to her Ma tie other â—ounsel and resolution of learned men layd â—efore her for her obligation to marry in such case for sauing of a common wealth
and for â—â—ntinuance of royal issue in thesame then â—â—otestants are wont to doe as by the exaÌ„ples â—â—eadged by the Warder is euident And to this the minister saith nothing at 〈◊〉 4 Inconuenience Succession not established as neyther to the fourth about establishâ—ent of succession which he saith could not â—â—ue byn but by allowance of the Pope and â—â—at this had byn dishonorable to her Ma tie â—â—d intollerable to the state to bring so great a 〈◊〉 to submit her-selfe to so base a slaue marke â—â—e impotent rayling of an abiect parasite Pag. 3◠〈◊〉 of him to receyue her right to the crowne And â—â—en he passeth further to the matter of state saying But let vs suppose her Ma tie should leaue 〈◊〉 issue behynd her is she the first that hath byn in 〈◊〉 case No S. Minister nor wil not be the last but what doth this remedy the inconuenieÌ„ce Heare him further Pag. Ibid. And is there noe remedy eytheâ— by lawes already prouided or by wise men to be deuisâ—â— but that we must needs fal by the eares togeather about this matter of succession This is 〈◊〉 supposition of their noddy our aduersary c. God graunt S. Minister he proue a noddâ— for his feare with-out fondation VVho is the noddy but hoâ— great a noddy yow are in the meane space 〈◊〉 setting so light by the matter and disputing 〈◊〉 fondly as yow do all men see But wheâ— yow ad further to make your aduesarâ— odious Pag. 22. that he percase desyreth some garboyle 〈◊〉 England to gratifie the Infanta the Spaniard wâ—â— slaue he is VVho are like to desyre more garboyles in England yf he be the man whome yoâ— would haue vs to weene yt is very wâ—â— knowne that he setteth lesse by the greate â—â— benefite or promotion that England or Spaiâ— ioyned togeather can giue him then yow 〈◊〉 by the least benefice of the diocesse wherâ—â— yow dwel and are a proling minister aâ—â— much more slaue were your to yow late 〈◊〉 the Eaâ—le of Essex running vp and downe 〈◊〉 by sea and land after him to gaine soâ—â— scrappes at his hands for your maintenancâ— and yow wife with her veluet hood thâ—â— this maÌ„ hath shewed him-selfe to the greatâ—â— Princes in Christendome with whome 〈◊〉 hath dealt in furderance of Cath. religion aâ—â— which of yow two hath desyred more gaâ—â—boyles in EnglaÌ„d eyther he by the lady Infanta or yow by your Lord Essex the euents haue shewed he being a man that cannot grow by garboyles and yow a broken compagnion that cannot wel remedy your needs but by innouations and with this I leaue yow and wil passe to the other foure inconueniences layd downe by the warder Fifthly sayth he yf religion in England had not byn changed 5 InconuenieÌ„ce vnion vvith Rome Sea Apostolyke we had had no breach with Rome nor consequently had the excommunication followed wherof so great noise hath byn made in the world abroad and so great trouble at home And what the vnion â—nd frendship of the Bishop of Rome may â—mport euen as a temporal Prince the effects â—hewed of late in France where especially â—y his endeauour and authority matters haue â—yn compounded that seemed very hard and â—esperate before not only betwene that King and his owne subiects but also beâ—wene that crowne and Spayne and the â—ates of Flaunders which without such an â—byter and vmpire would very hardly euer â—yn accomodated Sixtly England had continued in her ould â—ncient amity and leagues most honorable â—ith Spayne Burgundy 6 Auncient leagues with their deâ—â—ndants and consequently had auoyded all â—â—ese long and costly warres which by that â—eache we haue byn inforced to mainâ—â—yne with losse of so many worthie men â—â—d expence of so great treasure as easily may be imagined and the quarrel not yet ended 7 VVarres abroad Seauenthly so great bloody warres and tumults in Christian Kingdomes round about vs had neuer happened as before in part hath byn declared and euery man doth impute the principal causes and motions therof vnto the diuersity of religion in England And lastly most doleful alâ—erations in our owne countrey had byn auoyded Damages receyued at home as the depriuation in one day of all the sacred order of Bishops in England with their perpetual imprisonment for that they would not subscribe to this vnfortunate chaunge of religion wrong out in parlament as al men know by the oddes only of one or two voyces of lay men The disgracing and abusing of so many noble houses with ouerthrow of others wherof let Norfolk Arundel Northumberland Oxford VVestmerland and Dacres giue testimonyâ— for of the rest I wil not make mention seing perhaps them-selues would be loath I should all which had passed otherwyse by probability if religion had not byn altered The continual and intollerable affliction also of sâ— many honorable and worshipful gentlemeâ— had neuer happened for perseuering in theâ—â— Fathers faith wherto our countrey was firâ—â— conuerted from infidelity without any otheâ— offence obiected or to be prooued againâ— them but only refusing to accoÌ„modate theâ— selues to this change The torturing hanginâ— and quatering of aboue a hundred Priests fâ—â— the same cause the most of them good gentlemen and youthes of rare wit learning and other parts which other common welthes would highly haue esteemed and so would ours too in tymes past and wil agayne in tyme to come when these blasts shal once be ouerblowen Thus farre the Warder All which poynts O. E. answereth with shifts and sleâ—ghts as the former and first to the fifth about breache with Rome he sayth VVhat more absurd theÌ„ to obiect the breache with Rome when we esteeme that to be one of the greatest blessings that euer happened to this land To the other point mentioned by the Warder of the late peace made in Fraunce betweene those Monarches by the Popes mediation the minister saith nothing for that came not to his purpose yet he telleth vs againe heere now that Henry the third late K. of France and the late Duke of Ferrara and other Princes of the Popes religion were not-with-standing that troubled by the Pope A wise argument as though there were noe other cause for which the Pope might fal out with any Prince or punish him but only for chauÌ„ge of religion But this is the manner of this maÌ„nes arguing and with these manner of elenches â—aralogismes and other deceytful shifts of â—ophistry this fellow and his companions deâ—eaue the simple To the sixt about old ancient amity and â—eagues with Spayne Burgundy he answereth â—â—us 6 InconuenieÌ„ce breach of ancient leagues and amity As if yt were not more hurtful to the Spaniard â— break with vs then for vs to break with the Spaniard This as yow see is answered more like a souldiar then a minister â—g 3â— The last two points are in effect denyed by him to wit that eyther the
diuersity of religion in England hath byn cause of the warres and tumults round about vs which yet Fraunce Flaunders and Scotland do testifie how true or false it is or that any doleful alteratioÌ„s haue byn made at home which he saith is lyke that the warder â—eemeth to haue byn hired to speak in a lamentable voice and to shed some few teares for compassion of the domages receyued both by cleargy and nobility and the deathes of so many Priests as haue byn executed for religion which he with a loÌ„g ydle discourse wil needs goe about to prooue that they were truly traytors both by our common ciuil and imperial lawes But this extrauagant excursion of his about those late martyrs I am to answere afterward more at large in his new chalenge wheras he maketh this one of his articles that our Priests dy not for religion but for treason And albeit future ages wil be more indifferent iudges in this matter as more free from passion therin yet to vnderstand better the state of the question I would aske of this wyse states-man lawyer as he maketh him-selfe who both heere and euery where els calleth me noddy whether yt be lawful to all sâ—ates hauing taken to them-selues a forme of religion to make any articles of the opposite religion matters of trâ—ason And whether yt had byn lawful to Catholyks in Q. Maries dayes so to haue done against protestants and whether the treasons so made be true and properly treasons and the offenders rightly to be called traytors And when he hath answered me this VVhether our Priests be traytors or martyrs and I shal haue prooued to him out of their owne wryters and chroniclers as I can and by their owne publyke records that this is the state of our question with them that many or most of our Priests haue byn executed only for those articles of treason that were so made then wil yt be easy to iudge and discerne what kynd of traytors they are who for those transgressions haue byn put to death and executed Then wil all this vayne fellowes babling out of books of imperial and comon lawes about treasons of other kynds be quite cut of and proued childish and to no purpose Wherfore to draw at length to an end of this Encounter I doubt not good Readers but thow doest see by thy wisdome how not-with-standing the double reply made by the K â— and minister the warders discourse about these blessings and curssings remayneth yet whole and firme And albeit the minister hath brought more words theÌ„ the K t. yet no more substance but rather lesse and both of them much fraud and folly as in the admonition following in part shal appeare THE VVARNING and admonition to Sir F. H. and his frendes as also to his aduocate proctor O. E. vpon the first Encounter of blessings CHAP. XIX AND now for the conclusion of this Encounter I think is not amisse to the end that this my answere and reioynder which I call a Warn-word may do his duty and performe so much as the name and title importeth I am to bestow vpon the K t. in this place a breife and frendly admonition or warning wherby he may him-self yf passion wil suffer him to see the truth or others at least wayes that are more indifferent lesse passionate in the cause then he coÌ„sider the difference of our manner of proceeding in this affayre to wit the plaine and round dealing on our side going directly to the matter and the shifting and shufling on his to auoyde due trial and how that with no probability of reason or truth can he stand in the controuersy taken in hand of his blessings brought in by change of religioÌ„ his defence wherof is so impertinent false and from the matter as before yow haue seene yet for better memories sake and for some aduertisment to the K t. to look ouer his owne faults I shal breefly heere put him in mynd of that which hath passed in this Encounter First the charge of notorious flattery in bragging of so many blessings come to England by change of religion seemeth to ly stil vpon him more heauy then before for that he hath answered substantially to noe one argument of his aduersary to the contrary and the shift of passing ouer whole treateses and discourses of the warder yea foure or fiue as is prooued without any reply or mention Cap. 1â— argueth great weaknes in his cause The other shift also of excusing his flattery by the flattery of Canonists yf it were true is very vayne and ridiculous The new ten deuised blessings are such so poore Nevv deuised blessings as noe man would haue brought them in but he that eyther for lack of iudgment decerneth not what is for him nor what is against him or whome necessity forceth to expose him-selfe to the laughter of all men For who wil not laught to see vnity brought in for a blessing among protestants that cold neuer yet agree in the poynts of their religion nor euer wil or can and whose badge of dissension and disagreement is so notorious aboue all other heretyks before them Vid. cap. 3. â— 5. 6. Who wil not laugh also and bite his lip to see good woorks abstayning from persecution assigned for two other peculiar blessings considering what passeth in England and what in other countreys I passe our the rest as false or foolish or both vntil I come to the tenth that is copious generation of children which in respect of the marriage of their friars monks ministers we yeild vnto them but deny it to be a blessing especially to those parishes that by force are coÌ„strayned to maintayne their copious brood of spring to this I cal to witnesse the Churche-wardens parishioners This then is folly to bring in such sorts and sutes of blessings as euery chyld may see there vanity and laugh at them But that which ensueth of frauâ— fleights and deceyts is farre worse Variety of shifts which may be discouered by the variety of shifts noted in his whole discourse as namely that which was last recyted of passing ouer and dissembling all his aduersaryes principal arguments reasons allegations without mention at all or els mentioning them only in a word or two without further answere in lyke manner his not quoting places of books or chapters of the authors which he cyteth when he wil deceaue is a new trick neuer vsed perhaps before by any that hath written of controuersies though the other of misalleadging corrupting peruerting forcing them against their owne expresse meaning hath I grant byn vsed by diuers and cheefly by the patrons and grandsyres of English protestancy Vid. cap. 9. 10. Iewel and Fox whome this man principally followeth but yet so as he out goeth his maister yf it may be in that art as by the examples alleadged before of abusing S. Hierome S. Augustine S.
defacing of our doctryn and doings he sheweth first of all the smal reason the K t. had or hath to contemne so proudlie as he doth the Clergie of Q. Maries tyme and of former ages for darknesse ignorance and blyndnes declaring by diuers particulers that they were farre more learned then those that since haue stepped vp in their places and possessed their roomes And from this he passeth to shew that the foresaid two preaÌ„bles about reading scriptures and the punishment of death ther-vnto said to be assigned are no wayes true in any playne meaning sense or interpretation but feigned by the K t. him-selfe and consequentlie can not euer be proued or defended and by occasion of these preambles About reading of scriptures the warder entereth into examination of the things theÌ„-selues declaring how farre the reading of holy Scriptures in vulgar languages is permitted to all men among Catholykes and what restraynt is made therof towards some for what causes and reasons and vpon what necessitie and what is the true state of this controuersie betweene vs and Protestants as also what hurt profit damages or commodities haue or do insue therof with alleaging both reasons authorities and experiences in that behalf To all which discourse of reasons and experiences set downe at good length by the warder and conteyning in deed the principal substance of the controuersie the K â— answereth no one worde nor so much as mentyoneth the same in this his reply but passeth to other matters as by the combat of this insuing Encounter yow wil manifestlie see and behold and pittie the poore K t. for this weaknes The second parte of the vvatchmans impugnation and vvarders defence After this cometh the warder to handle the second parte of this Encounter to wit about the foresaid foure absurd positions grounds and maximes set downe by the K t. for ours which the warder prooueth to be neyther Maximes nor minimes of Catholyke Doctryne for that to proue them Maximes all Catholyke wryters must hold them and to proue them minimes some one at least must hold theÌ„ but that neyther of these can be prooued And consequentlie that they are no positions or principles of Catholyke religion but fictions rather of heretykes and false impositions of the K t. And for the first that ignorance is held by vs to be the mother of deuotion The first forged position for that the watchman bringeth no other proof but only that reading of Scriptures was forbidden to the lay sorte at which distinction also of laytie cleargie he seemeth to iest hervpon the Warder taketh occasion first to proue by many old testimonies the vse and antiquitie of this distinction wher-vnto the K t. in this last reply returneth not any one word of answere and after this agayne the warder declareth largely that this position is neyther Maxime nor minime among Catholykes and that ignorance is neyther held for the mother daughter or kinse-woman of deuotion which he proueth both by the definition of deuotion it self out S. Augustine S. Thomas and others as also by the effects shewing that deuotion is grounded vpon knowledge not vpon ignorance though vpon perticular causes the learnedest men are not alwayes the most deuoute All which discourse the K t. thought good to passe ouer with silence as wel as the former without taking any notice therof in this his last reply and therby yow may see whether yt be more and more substantial that he leaueth vnanswered then that which he answereth About the second position imposed vpon Catholykes The second position that lay men must not medle with matters of religion as the vntruth therof is more apparant then any of the rest so was there lesse written in the refutation but that necessitie inforced the warder to defend S. Thomas of CaÌ„terburie dishonored and slaundered intollerably by the K t. wher-vnto what he answereth in this Wast-woord now and how for defence of his former falshoods he intangleth him-self in diuers new difficulties and inextricable absurdityes shal be seene afterward in the particular discussion of matters that ensue In the third position that the Pope or meanest Priest coming from him is to be obeyed vnder payne of damnation though he command blasphemie The third faygned position c. The warder is more briefe in lyke manner for that the euident falshood therof is apparant to all yet writeth he so much as is needful for a manifest briefe confutation and how litle the K t. hath to answere for deuising of this position and laying it so falsely to Catholykes charge yow shal afterwards see discussed And finally about the fourth and last forged ground of Catholyke religion The fourth false ground to wit that our chiefe remedy for sinne though it were committed immediatly against God him-selfe is to vse the watchmans words A pardon from his Hol. and absolution from his holie Priests but yf the decrees or ordinances of their Romish Synagoue were transgressed hardly any mercy was to be had c. About this I say the warder obserueth only the apparant cauils ignorances and falshoods of the watchmaÌ„ as first that the greatest sinner immediatly committed against God him-selfe are to be remitted among vs by pardons which is a malitious cauil for that we hold such pardons to be auaylable only for the payne due to venial sinnes or for remitting the temporal punishment remayning after mortal synne forgeuen before Secondlie that he conioyneth together Popes pardons and the absolution of Priests in the Sacrament of pennance as though they were both one which is ignoraÌ„ce for that the later remitteth all sinne and the first not And thirdly that the transgressors of the decrees and ordinances of the Churche can hardlie euer obtayne mercie and that they are more hardly pardoned then the grossest sinnes committed against God himseâ—f the warder sheweth to be a most malitious fiction without any grounde or colour of truth To all which obseruations and deductions of the warder the K t. answereth nothing at all in this last replie but filleth vp paper with tales eyther deuised by himself or taken out of Ihon Fox as for example of one â—esselius a merchant of Pardons and of the absolution of one Symon a Monke that is forged to haue poysoned K. Ihon and other such stuffe which yow shal heare discussed and refuted afterward and therby see and perceyue how iustlie this last replie of S â— Francis is called a Wast-word And so we shal passe on to the particular examination of matters point by point ABOVT THE GENERAL charge of false dealing layd to sir Francis in this Encounter and how euil he auoydeth thesame by committing new falshoodes treacheries CAP. II. FIRST then the general charge layd to our K t. throughout this whole second Encounter concerneth two poyntes to wit falsitie and falsifying the later wherof hath this differeÌ„ce from the first that it is both witting and willingly committed and
before or is it strange that he should pretend to come to this new light by reading Scriptures what other pretence did euer auncient heretyke or new take vpon him or what other excuse could this man make of running out of his Cloister or taking a sister to his Compagnion or from a Iudge of heretykes while he was a Dominican fryar to become an heretyke himselfe as appeareth plainly by Fox his whole discourse though S. F. so telleth the tale as he could be content we thought him to be a great learned Catholyke and for that cause betweene Ihon Fox and him they haue â—octored the poor fryar without euer heaâ—ing him dispute much lesse do his act only â—o geue him more reputation and reuerence with the reader And on the other syde they do bring in the â—rch-bishop of Aix who was against him and calleth him wicked Apostata to speak most absurdly though he were knowne to be a most reuerend and learned man and among other wordes they make him say thus This doctrine is contrarie to our holy Mother the Churche and to oâ—r holy Father the Pope a most vndoubted and true God in earth And did not those haynous woords deserue I pray yow some quotation where they might be found but neyther the K t. nor the Fox vouchsafeth vs so muche but as though the matter were most certaine the K t. braueth in a marginal note with these woordes O blyndnes O blasphemy But a man might more iustly say O cogging O cosenage that dare auouche so horrible a slaunder against so honorable a personage without cyting the place or Author for the iustification But we must passe ouer many of these absurdities with patience so go on to other matter HOVV LONG THE CAtholyke Romayn Religion hath florished in England of the authoritie of S t. Bede Arnobius abused by Sir F. togither with a comparison examined betwene our learned men and those of the Protestants and first of Ihon Husse bragged of by Syr Francis CAP. III. AFTER this the K t. before he come to answere in particuler to the vntruthes obiected against him wil needs say somewhat to those woords of myne that aboue a thowsand yeares the State of Enâ—land and the Princes peoplâ— nobilitie and learned men therof had contâ—nued in that Egyptian or rather Chimerian darcknes VVast-vvord Pag. 34. which he describeth vnder Clowdes Mystes and Shadowes vntil his new Sunshine Doctors came in c. Which woords of myne he hauing corruptly alleaged as often his fassion is sayth two things first that my bold assertioÌ„ of a thowsaÌ„d yeares is vayne for that yt is euident by Bedes playne testimonie that in his tyme this Iland had the Scriptures in their owne language as though this only were sufâ—icient to make that age to be oâ— Protestants Religion though it had byn so and the second that we do secretly yeild the first 600. yeres after Christs to Protestants seing we challenge commonly but a thowsand for our selues But by this last point to answere this first yow may see how wise an Answerer this is seing that when we name a thowsand yeares we vnderstand from the first conuersion of our English nation vnder Gregory the first Protestants religion in no age which no man can doubt of but yf syr F. wil goe higher vnder the Britans we shal easely also shew the lyke in that tyme. But in the meane space yt is but a hungry trick of this needy knight to snatch that which is not giueÌ„ him to wit 600. yeres together of the primitiue Churche wherof our meaning is to giue him no one yeare nor half one wherin his Religion was extant or had any one that professed the same in those daies as he doth now Enc. 7. c. 4 5.6.7.8-9 this I shal largely proue declare afterward and this to the second point But now to the first point of proof alleaged out of S t. Beede yf it were true as Syr. F. citeth thesame surely knights should haue truth in their allegations to wit that Scriptures were in those dayes read by some people in their vulgar languages and tongues which Bede nameth yet were yt nothing against vs who do vse thesame libertie and haue done in all ages to permit some vulgar translations for suche as are thought meet to profit Enc 1.8 infra cap. 5. and not to take hurt therby as before hath byn declared and after shal be shewed more at large But now yow must vnderstand that this playne and euident testimony of S. Bede which Syr F. braggeth of but quoteth yt not as commonly his shift is when he would not haue matters examâ—ned or his fraud found out this place I say of Bede which he alleageth is quite contrary to him for this sayth Bede Beda lib. 1. hist Angl. cap. 1. Haec in praesenti â—uxta numerum librorum quibus lex diuina scripta est quinque gentium linguis vnam eandemque summae veritatis verae sublimitatis scientiam seruatur confitetur Anglorum vz Britonum Scotorum Pictorum Latinorum quae in meditatione Scripturarum caeteris omnibus est facta communis c. This Iland at this present according to the number of the fyue Bookes wherin the law was written by Moyses doth in fyue tonges search owt and confesse one and the self same knowlege of the highest truth A notable abusing of S. Bedes authoritie and of the true highnes which is the Religion of Christ Iesus to wit the tongue of the Angles or Englishmen of the Britans of the Scots of the Pictes and of the Latines or relykes of the Romanes which Latyn tougue ys now made common to all the rest in meditation of the Scriptures Thus sayth Bede wherin 3. things are to be obserued first that all thâ—se fyue nations lyuing together in one Iland and in continual enmitie and warres in other pointes yet in Religion and profession of one truthe they all agreed which sheweth notably the vnitie of Catholyke doctrine euen among enemies and ouerthroweth that fond fiction of protestaÌ„ts who in all their bookes giue out and auow especially Fox and Hollinshed that the religion of the Britans was different from that which S. Augustine the Monke brought in from Rome to the English nation Fox monu pag 107.108 Hoâ—â—nâ—h des crip Angl. Cap. 9. Secondly yt is â—o be noted that since the new Religion of Protestants came vp though all the â—â—and aâ—most be of one tonge throughly frends in othâ—r matterâ— yet in points or Religion they agree not as in Bedes tyme when they were enemies which is the vertue of their vnitie And thirdly may be noted the euil dealing of Syr F. himself aâ—so who in this place sticketh not to auowche to the Reader that by these woords of Bede it is euident and plaine that the Scriptures were now in all these fyue tonges where as S. Bede sayth the quite contrary to wit that the
quas haereses inferunt Tertul. de praescript cap. 14. quae hareticos faciunt This rule of faith instituted by Christ and deliuered to his Churche hath no doubt or questioÌ„ among vs Catholykes but such as either heresyes do bring in or do make heretikes And then after a sharp reprehension against curious men Tertullians reprehension of curious heretikes that brag of skil and suche as vnder pretence of seeking knowlege are alwayes disputing in matters of faith he concludeth thus Nouissimè ignorare melius est Tertul. Ibid. ne quod non debeas noris quia quod debeas nosti c. Finally it is better to be ignorant in many things least yow should know that yow ought not to know seing yow know already by the rule of faith receiued so muche as yow should know And then further Ibid. Cedat curiositas fidei cedat gloria saluti certe aut non obstrepant aut quiescant aduersus regulam nihil vltra scire omnia scire est c. Let curiositie of searching yeild vnto faith and beleuing let the vayne glorie of disputing yeild vnto the studie of our saluation and at leastwise either let them not brabble at all or let them be sylent against this rule of faith receued for to know nothing besydes this is to know all thinges Now let the sober reader iudge what honestie wit or shame this Minister may haue in him Illations against O. E. that citeth these places owt of Hosius to proue his purpose that we hold Ignorance to be the mother of deuotion for first they are not the sentences of Hosius as now we haue shewed but of S. Hillary and Tertullian and secondly they doe make nothing to proue that we hold ignorance to be the mother of deuotion but rather that these fathers do hold it if any suche things be in their sentences or tending that way which is muche against our Minister if yow mark it But thirdly I say that all this is nothing to his purpose but altogether to ours for that these sayings of the fathers and many other that might be alleaged to thesame effect doe tend principally to reproue the curious searching disputing wrangling of heretikes that brag of singular knowlege and do obiect ignorance and simplicity to Catholikes which ignorance notwithstanding and simplicitie with promptnes of obeying and beleuing what is left vnto them by the Churche their mother is preferred by the foresaid fathers before all the curiositie knowlege vawnted of by heretikes â— Cor. 8. which is truly called Scientia inflans puffing science by the Apostle And thus now as yow see hath the K t. with his Minister struggled hard hitherto for deliuering himself froÌ„ the forged position fayned against vs The Conclusion of this chapter that we hold Ignoraâ—ce for the mother of deuotion albeit to the very force and substance of the Warders replie he hath answered scarse any one point at all to the purpose For the Warder meaning to haue the truthe tried indeed substantially and reallie whither ignorance or scieÌ„ce were holden by Catholykes to be needful to deuotion he took a sownd way went roundly to the matter setting downe the true definition of deuotion out of Catholyke Doctors namely out of S. Thomas in name of all the rest which definition being the true touchstone of the nature of each thing seing it excludeth ignorance expresly and requireth knowlege doth coÌ„uince Sir F. his fiction of forgery and deliuereth all Catholykes from that fond imputation Moreouer the Warder againe shewed at large out of the said Author S. Thomas that albeit knowlege and contemplation of Gods benefits vnto vs be the true mother of deuotioÌ„ indeed yet may it fal out oftentymes that the most learned be not the most dedout the cause wherof is for that deuotion dependeth more of the affection then of the vnderstanding and then he concludeth in these woords Thus yow see S â— F. that we hold not ignorance for the mother nor daughter nor kinswoman of deuotion but rather to the coÌ„trary we hold that deuotion is fownded and proceedeth of knowlege wherof Catholyks haue byn euer and in all ages more studious and greater enemies to ignorance then Protestants can with any reason presume to haue byn for the litle tyme they haue byn in the world And by this meanes the said Warder taketh an occasion to make a third discourse Principal points of the VVarders discourse vntouched by the knight Minister and to shew by many profes and examples that Catholyks haue byn euer more greater furtherers of all kynd of learning scieÌ„ce and knowlege belonging to piety then Protestants and namely of that wherof euery Sectarie of our tyme dothe brag to wit of holy scriptures which is euident by conseruing the same vncorrupt so many ages wherby Sectaries of our tyme are come to haue theÌ„ which otherwise they should not and they are forced to take them vpon our credit And more then this the Bybles set forth in our tymes in Hebrew Greek Chaldy Syriak and other learned tonges was done by our men infinit commentaries also published vpon them Vniuersities and Lectures erected by them for their study Schoole degrees and preferments appointed for those that profit most in that study all which Catholyks would neuer haue done if they had byn enemies of knowlege and specially of Scriptures And as for Christian knowlege and perpetual remembraÌ„ce of the misteries of our Sauiour especially in the lay people that can not read nor vnderstand the Scriptures no man can in reason denie but that Catholyks haue do vse many meanes more then Protestants doe More meanes to Christian knovvleg in vse amongst Catholyks then amongst Protestants as the frequent vse of festiual and holie dayes wherein the Acts of Christ and his Saincts are recownted repeated and imprinted to the peoples myndes The vse of Images representations and many exterial ceremonies belonging to the same end all which do contayne renew and keep in memory the misteries of Christian faith amongst vnlearned people which can not read or study bookes more then any thing els especially the Cath. expositions of their Pastors and teachers being adioyned therevnto as before hath byn shewed to be ordeyned by our Churche So as if all these things do tend to knowlege yea a more certayn sure and holsome knowlege conteyning the sense and true meaning of their mother the vniuersal Cath. Churche then euery priuate man can pyke out of scriptures by his owne study or reading though euery man and woman could read as they can not or then they can take by the interpretation of any particuler Minister following lykewise his owne head or of any particuler countrey or Prouince following their owne deuise different from the whole body of Christendome This I say being so and so many wayes to knowlege vsed by vs let euery indifferent man iudge who may best brag of knowlege or more obiect
discouery of your learned men to manifest the same See Posseuiâ—us in biblioth select lib. and then is it both false and ridiculous which immediatly yow ad that we thought to haue it remayn secret among our selues what we do in this behalf concerning the ancieÌ„t Fathers c. For who would publish books and expurgatorie Indices in all countreys of such corrections as we think needful yf we would haue the matter secret but these men must needs say somwhat though neuer so fond or repugnant to reason But for that of later dayes diuers sectaries haue begonne to complayn greatly of the continuance of an ancient diligence vsed by the Cath. Roman Churche for repressing heretical books and purging others corrupted by them with infinite impostures false translations wicked annotations pernicious commentaries postiles arguments obseruations and other like most pestilent infections I shal be forced in this place to stand vpoÌ„ this matter somwhat and to open to the reader the truth of things about this point and then shal we answere also this particular obiection of deleaiur solummodo made heere by S r. Francis els where by many of his coÌ„parteners as though we meant to blot out all that is against vs in any sort of authors whatsoeuer First then it is to be vnderstood that it hath byn an ould custome of heretiks and sectaries from the beginning not only to wryte wicked bookes themselues The custome of heretiks to corrupt bookes but to corrupt other meÌ„nes wrytings also most audaciously to make them seeme to be of their secte and faction euen as rebels are wont to do who being but few at the beginning do giue out notwithstanding for their better credit that they haue many great parteners in secret and do oftentymes fayn letters to testifie the same Of this fraud of heretiks Origenes in epist. ad Alexandrinos Tertul. lib. contra Marcion Euseb. Caesar. in apol sub nomine Pamphyâ—â— martyris Ruffinus in epist. ad Macarium and of their corrupting not only the scriptures when they can but also other authors and wryters we haue many ancient complaints among the Fathers of all ages which were ouerlong heere to recite the reader may see those that I haue noted in the margent and therby may he make a ghesse of the rest But now to this most dangerous assault of the diuel â—uagr lib. 3. ca. 31. Cassiodorus de Diuin lect ca. 2. Leuitius de Sectis Act. 8. tom 9. Byblioth Sanct. 6. Synod act 15. tom 2. concil c. wherby he would bring all things in doubt and consequently the Churche of God into confusion the said Churche in the strength of his holy spirit hath striuen and resisted euer with all diligence industry and longanimity accursing first both the heretiks and all their heretical wrytings then cleansing and purging the works of other authors from their pernicious corruptions No book of former heretyke hath remayned infections and poysoned impostures and this diligence of the Cath Churche hath peruayled so much hath byn so grateful in the sight of God as we see and feele at this day the miraculous effects therof which are that of so many heretical volumes as haue byn written from age to age against the truthe of Catholyke religion and were curiously read and highly esteemed in those dayes by men that loued nouelties scarse any one remayneth to this day in so much that if we had not mention and memory of their said books and absurd positions by the testimony of Cath. authors that wrote against theÌ„ we should scarse haue had any knowledge that they had wrytten such woorks For what is become I pray yow of all those volumes written by the Arrians which did set a worke all the Cath. Fathers and Doctors of diuers ages to answere them what is become of the many books of Pelagius our learned though wicked Brittaine of Faustus the great Manichie of whose great parts and labors S. Augustine himself that was his greatest aduersary doth beare witnesse of Petilian Crescentius and other wryting Donatists What is become of the 200. books or volumes of our Ihon VVicliffe or wicked-beleef as Thomas VValsingham calleth him are they not all gon So as yf our other learned contreyman Thomas VValden VVicliffes opposite and some others did not make mention therof and of that nuÌ„ber we should neuer haue knowne that he had wrytten so many to his owne confusion Wel then these are the effects of this holy industry of the Catholyke Church in ceÌ„suring and condemning the wrytings of heretyks which censure though it be commonly litle esteemed but rather contemned by them and their followers for the tyme present yet as the figtree in the ghospel died and withered away after the curse of Christ receyued so do these men and their works by litle and litle dy in themselues after the malediction and condemnation of his spouse the Churche though presently it be not seene but future tymes wil declare it and if we haue seene the experience therof in 15. ages past we may beleeue it also of this which is the 16. Let the heretiks vaunt and brag what they wil to the contrary and already we see some proof therof For I would aske yow who readeth or esteemeth greatly Martyn Luthers works at this day in England I meane of Protestants though they were more perhaps in number then those of S. Augustine and much more esteemed for some yeares by his folâ—owers Luthers books out of request he being accoÌ„pted the Elias of our tyme Father of the new ghospel And the lyke I might aske of the books of Oecolampadius Carolstadius Zwinglius and other the first pillers of Protestants Religion and if they be eyther in contempt or of declining estimaâ—ion among their owne ofspring so soone what do we think that they are amongst Catholyks and wil be to their posterity when this tempest shal be blowne-ouer and the Churche restored to a calmer season againe And thus much of the effects of this diligence as also of the necessary causes inducing to vse the same which may be greatly confirmed by the coÌ„trary effects to be seene amoÌ„g heretyks and sectaries where this diligence is not or cannot be vsed nor if it were can it haue the forsayd benediction of good successe for that God the giuer of that benediction is not with them so we see that among them all sectaries books whatsoeuer are read promiscuously of all men and women euen the Turks Alcaron it self Macheuile Bodin tending to Atheisme and baudy Boccace with the most pestilent English Pallace of Pleasure all forbidden among vs Catholyks are read and studied by whome it lyketh them wherby it must needs ensue that the peoples iudgment affections are pittifully infected with poyson in euery kynd where no prohibition is vsed to the contrary The only diligence that is vsed at this day among them is to prohibit and keep out Catholyke books No
The second is that this matter of miracles is an ordinary common place wherin the scurrility of incredulous and scoffing heretiks doth enlarge it self very much and often it being a subiect sit for that purpose seing that miracles being aboue the common course of natural things must needs haue some disproportion or improbability in the sense of ordinary vnderstanding that measureth all by that they see with their eyes and then being set forth also with mocks and moes in the most ridiculous sort that malice can deuise and the improbability increased commonly by such lying circumstances as are added by the reporter it serueth to entertayne and make mery the incredulous ignorant or light of hart and to bring them by litle aed litle to trust or beleeue nothing that passeth sense or excedeth the reach of euery particular mannes reason These two obseruations then being premised in this matter vve shal passe to examine what our vnbeleeuing knight bringeth in to discredit miracles And first to beginne withall and to make some path and preamble to the infidelity which heere he meaneth to teach he alleadgeth vs an old prouerbe as he calleth it which for more credit he setteth downe in different letter VVastvvord Pag. 58. That many are worshipped for Saints in heauen whose soules are burning in hel And for this in his margent he quoteth ex Auentino Ex Auentino but Auentinus his works and storie being verie great why did he not quote the book chapter or place For though Auentinus be not of much credit with Catholikes in his historie yet might we haue examined vpon what occasion and in what sense he said it for that in some sense it may be somwhat true and yet help nothing Syr F. his cause nor the infidelity he endeauoureth by his doctryn to establish For suppose yf that should fal out so that some christians were deceaued about the particular holines of some persons who being honored vpon earth for Saints were none in deed but rather damned as it is reported by some that S. Ambrose by reuelation discouered that two bodyes which had byn honored by some simple people for martyrs not to haue byn those martyrs but rather the bodyes of two malefactors which suppose it were true what hurted that the Churche of God or what hindred that the merit and deuotion of those simple people that being deceaued honored those memories as of special seruants and saincts of Christ and receaued no doubt the reward of their deuotioÌ„ according to their meaning and holy intention not according to the external error happened in the material obiect Material error in honoring saintes huâ—â—eâ—h not the deuout as yf when Christs body was rysen from the sepulcher the Iewes had put one of the two theeues bodies there that were crucified with him and S. Mary Magdalyn and the rest had annoynted that body thinking it to be Christs had this think yow diuinished their merit or made their act superstitious as heretyks cal it So as theÌ„ this material error litle importeth and consequently the place out of Auentinus yf it be there is nothing to the purpose For auoyding notwithstanding of the which and lyke errors great care was had in the primitiue Churche that the acts of Martyrs deathes and burials should be diligently obserued and distinctly coÌ„mitted to wryting for which cause not only the Bishops themselues were imployed therin euery one in his owne diocesse but a deacon also vnder euery Bishop The diligeÌ„ce of the primitiue Churche about Martyrs and S. and a subdeacon vnder euery deacon and a publyke Notarie vnder euery subdeacon were assigned to attend to this particular care And in Rome for that it was so big and deuided into 7. regions seauen deacons and seauen subdeacons with seueral notaries vnder them had this charge as appeareth in the Romane register ascribed to Damasus in the lyfe of Clement Damas. Pontifical in vit Clement Fab. c. Fabian Anteros Iulius and other Bishops of Rome And the-same to haue byn obserued also in the Churche of Millan testifieth Paulinus the Notarie of S. Ambrose Bishop of that cittie who wryting the lyfe of thesayd sainct sayth he was vnder the charge of Castus deacon to gather such things togeather of saincts Paul in vita Ambros. c. And before this agayne Pontius the deacon of S. Cyprian afirmeth that blessed Bishop and Martyr to haue byn so sollicitious in gathering the gests of Martyrs Pont. Diac in vita Cypriani as he would haue the very dayes exactly noted in which each one suffred which S. Cyprian testifieth also himself in his Epistle to the Priests Deacons of his Churche of Carthage Ep. Cyprian ad presb Diacon and of other Bishops before him Pont ibid. thesayd Potius sayth that they were so studious in this care as not only of all Baptised Christians but also of Catecumeni if they were martyred order was giuen to haue their acts written c. And this we read also put in practise by many other Churches of the world as by that of Vienna in Austria by Lions in France by AlexaÌ„dria in Egypt and the lyke as appeareth by their Epistles registred by Eusebius and other wryters This was the spirit of the ancient primitiue Churche and the very same diligence by lyke spirit hath byn continued by the Catholyke Churche euer since The processe needful to CanonizatioÌ„ of saincts not only in the acts and gests of martyrs but of other holy men also since martyrdome in great part hath ceased as may appeare by the long processe and most diligent examination of hundrethes of witnesses by lawful and indifferent iudges appoynted when any man is to be Canonized or declared for holy in the Churche after his death which thing for more certayntie and lesse partialitie is done by order and authoritie of the highest iudge and Pastor in spiritual causes and it is not done but vpon many yeares examination commonly except the cause be otherwayes made euident to all This is the practise of the Cath. Churche heere now let S r. F. or any other wrangler or calumniator equal to himself tel me if any meane of trying meÌ„nes merits holines be to be had in this lyfe what better or more indifferent way can be taken then this which is by the highest and most vniuersal Magistrate that we haue in our Churche Fox-made-saincts not to be compared to Pope-made-saincts wheras amoÌ„g them euery particular man as Ihon Fox for exaÌ„ple maketh saincts and vnmaketh them at his pleasure and putting them downe in his Calender in great red letters for martyrs or confessors or in black lesser letters for lesser saincts as he thinketh best without any other examination or approbration of superior authority and that which is most ridiculous of all he careth not of what fayth or religioÌ„ they were of among themselues so they were contrarie in any one part to the Catholykes yea
Beatus Thomas c. Blessed Thomas Bishop of Canterbury who in our tyme hath fought for the liberty oâ— the Churche vnto death did not shine by any miracles during the tyme of his persecution Caesar. Heisleâ—bac lib. 2. c. 69. dialog and after his slaughter there hath byn much disputing seme saying that he was damned as a traytor of the Kingdome and others that he was a martyr as defendor of the Churche And the same questioÌ„ was disputed also in Paris among the masters for M. Roger swore that he was worthie of death albeit not such a death as he had iudging the blessed maÌ„nes constancy to be a contumacy On the other side M. Peter chantor affirmed vpon his oath that he wus a worthie martyr of God and slayne sor the liberty of his Churche These mens questions or controuersies Christ hath now dissolued hauing glorified him with many and great myracles These are the true words of Caesarius translated out of Latyn and if we wil see the falshood both of Fox his scholler S r. F. in alleaging this one litle text only it shal not be amisse to set it downe heere as it is found in Fox himself first in Latyn and then in English Thus theÌ„ Fox alleadgeth Caesarius his words Quaestio Parisâ—is inter magistros rentilata suit virum damnatus an saluatus esset ille Thomas Fox pag. 204. col 2. nu 40. dixerat Rogeâ—â—us tunc Normannus fuisse illuÌ„ morte ac damnatione dignum quod contumax esset in Dei ministrum Regem Proâ—ulit contra Petrus Canâ—or Parisiensis quod signa saluationis magnae sanctitatis essent eius miracula quod martyrium probasset Eccles. causa pro qua mortem subierat c. Thus do Fox and S r. F. alleadge his latyn woords which in English are these Fox doth Falsly allâ—adg Cesarius There was a question mooued among the maisters or doctors of Paris whether that Thomas were saued or damned Roger then a norman sayd that he was worthie death damnation for that he was so obstinate against Gods minister the King Peter Cantor a Parisian came out to the contrary saying that his miracles were great signes and tokens of his saluation and also of great holynes affirming moreouer that the cause of the Churche did allow and confirme his martyrdome for the which he died Thus farre Fox And then immediatly he adioyneth this continuance of his speech And thus haue yow the iudgment and câ—nsure of the schoole of Paris touching this question for the taynting of Thom. Becket And yet as you see it was but the altercation of two men the one a Norman as Fox saith subiect at that tyme to the king of England the other a Parisian subiect to the king of France who in reason may seeme more indifferent for that he was not interessed on any side Yet with what face can Fox out of these words affirme that here was giuen the iudgment and censure of all the Vniuersity of Paris seing it was but an altercation of two priuate men only Who discouereth not heer the impudent false humor of Fox in calling it the determination of the Vniuersity of Paris But let vs now returne to examine the notorious abusing of this short authority by Fox and his scholler Syr F. First they cut of as yow see by the text it self before set downe in English verbatim the whole beginning and ending of the authors speech Many corruptions of Caesarius both in latyn c English which do comprehend the ful purpose and meaning of his narration with his whole iudgment of the controuersy which is such dishonest dealing as may be in abusing any author And after this Fox choosing to put downe the text for more credits sake in the latyn tongue first he should haue put his very owne words as yow know which he hath not done but hath added altered and taken away so much as he thought good for his purpose making his reader notwithstanding beleeue that they were the very woords of the author seing he putteth downe first the latyn and then the English in a different letter But yet he that shal examine and compare text with text he shal fynd added first the whole sentence virum damnatus an saluatus esset ille Thomas Then dixerat Rogerius tunc Normannus thirdly quod contumax esset in Dei ministrum regâ—m Fourthly is added the word damnatione which is not in Caesarius Fifthly quod signa saluationis magnae sanctitatis essent eius miracula is not in the authors text sixtly also the words quod martyrium probasset Ecclesiae causa Caesarius hath them not All these words and sentences therfore are foisted in by Iohn Fox euen in latin which make the more part or very neare of the whole text by him cited He cutteth of besides the beginning and ending before mentioned these words following first of Roger who though he affirmed him to be worthy of death yet he addeth etsi non tali yet not of such a death as he had which words Iohn Fox coÌ„cealeth as he doth also the words immediatly following of Caesarius beati viri constaÌ„tiam iudicans contumaciam iudging the holy mannes constaÌ„cy to be contumacy After this Fox leaueth out those words pro libertate Ecclesiae truâ—idatum that he was slaine for the libertie of his Churche but especially those that immediatly follow contayning the authors conclusion of all which are these quorum quaestionem Christus soluit cùm multis magnis miraculis illum glorificauit whose question or controuersy Christ hath dissolued in that he hath glorifyed him with many and great miracles Thus wrote Caesarius soone after S. Thom. his martyrdome And now by this one example of playne forgery and cosenage and by these few lynes so corrupted peruerted and altered the reader may imagine what infinite falshood is to be found in Fox his huge volume according to this accoÌ„pt In which vpon my conscience and some trial also I do think there is scarse any one story truly related in all parts in that monstrous huge book And yet yow must mark also that Syr F. doth not cyte so much as Iohn Fox for this allegation out of Caesarius neyther any author besides False dealing in both haÌ„ds betvvene the Maister and scholler least the falshood should be found And so much for this poynt Yow haue hard what falsifications forgeryes haue byn vsed Diuers vvayes deuiseâ— by haeretiks to disc edit miracles to make authors to speak some euil against this blessed Saint Now when that cannot stand but that God testified his holines with so many and famous miracles as Caesarius liuing in that tyme and so many others before eye witnesses do testifie consider whether the impiety of restlesse heretykes doth rush They deuise diuers wayes how to delude or discredit all miracles and thereby also these of S. Thomas And first Iohn Fox deuiseth two saying that yow may answere
dabo claues 〈…〉 16. c. Quodcunque ligaueris 〈…〉 of which textes he saith Non 〈…〉 collatione indulgentiarum debeant 〈…〉 cleare than these places of 〈…〉 vnderstood of giuing 〈…〉 words being added to the word 〈…〉 the former clause do euidently signify 〈◊〉 albeit Durand did not think that the doctrine of indulgences was cleerly and expresly contayned in scripture yet that it might be deduced out of scripture for which cause Syr FraÌ„cis cut them out This is one trick let vs see another Immediatly after the words in Durand the Auncient Fathers S. Ambrose Hilary Hierome August made no mention of indulgences c. followeth Gregorius tamen loquitur but S. Gregory speaketh of them This Syr Frauncis dasheth out which was a principal verb in this matter For a man might answere that albeit the particular vse of indulgences were not so treated of by S. Ambrose S. Augustine and other former doctors occupied in other affayres and stryfes with other heretiks yet soone after in S. Gregory the great his tyme which was a thousand yeares agoe the vse and exercise therof was common in the Churche seing Durand in this very place affirmeth not only that S. Gregory speaketh of them but also that he is said to haue ordayned 〈…〉 publike Stations who 〈…〉 to haue begon this 〈…〉 or to haue taught and 〈…〉 contrary to antiquity in 〈…〉 Christ. All which for Syr 〈…〉 dissembled and of purpose 〈…〉 a bad conscience both in him 〈…〉 they striue not for truthe but 〈…〉 faction and falshood 〈…〉 by what meanes so euer which shal appeare also by that which ensueth in the sequent Chapter yf first we take a short vew of that which his Minister O. E. bringeth in to assist him which is such stuffe as is commonly vttered by such broken marchaunts Let vs heare what he saith VVhat O. E. sayeth of indulgences It is most true saith he which Sir Francis affirmeth O.E. Pag. 54. that the Papists when they haue committed most abhominable offences and liued in all filthynes are notwithstanding taught that the Pope hath power to pardon them and absolue them c. Mark here two words subtily ioyned togeather of pardoning and absoluing as though they were one wheras indeed they import farre different things as before hath byn shewed for that absoluing implyeth that it must be done by vertue of the sacrament of pennance and absolution and so reacheth to all synnes neuer so greeuous but pardoning is proper to indulgences and stretcheth no further but to the release of temporal punishment as before hath but declared And thus the minister 〈…〉 of purpose to haue some 〈…〉 he is pressed but all men 〈…〉 heere only of the former to 〈…〉 that it is an abhominable lyf 〈…〉 science to affirme as he doth 〈…〉 are taught that all filthynes and 〈…〉 sences are remitted by the Popes pardon 〈…〉 his lyfe be so licentious and filthy 〈…〉 of him and his courses of 〈…〉 do wel agree thervnto 〈…〉 come to be of our religion he would â—ind other remedyes applyable to him besides pardons that would stick near his skin albeit in leâ—itate spiritus for sauing of his soule But how doth he proue thinke yow that all sorts of sinnes are remitted by pardons Two arguments he alleageth the one of authority the other of practise In both which he lyeth notably His argumeÌ„t of authority is out of Cardinal Bellarmyne in these words Bellarmâ— de indul lib. 1. cap. 10. Bellarmyne saith that indulgences are profitable to all maner of persons Wel what of this wil yow inferre herof that all synnes may be forgiuen by indulgences Cardinal Bellarmyne in the place cyted goeth about to refute Luther who affirmed Indulgentias non esse vtiles nisi publicis scelestissimis peccatoribus Luth. in assert art 1â— that indulgences are not profitable but only to publyke and most wicked sinners which Card. Bellarmine doth refute and shew that they profit also to good men so that this minister would inferre the quite contrary to the authors meaning and 〈…〉 out fraudulently how 〈…〉 the third chapter after 〈…〉 large what maÌ„ner of 〈…〉 them that must be 〈…〉 to wit that they be out of 〈…〉 consequently it is not most 〈…〉 rather and false which this 〈…〉 all filthines and most 〈…〉 to be pardoned among 〈…〉 indulgences yet heare what he appeare also second proof deduced from practâ—â—e For money saith he they pardon Murder of children of men O.E. Pag. 55. of women of wyues of neere kiâ—red fornication adultery incest and all vnnatural abhominations c. To this is answered before that Cath. doctrine neyther teacheth nor alloweth any such matter and if any bad fellow or vnder officer hath gone about by corruption at any tyme to commit such abuses he was as honest a man as O. E. and should do it as lawfully as he and other such lyke ruffianly and rauenous companions do possesse buy sel Cath. benesices instituted for Priests and honest men And last of all that which he addeth out of Taxa Poenitentiariae noted in the margent pro licentia erigendi de nouo publicam synagogam Taxa est suron 60. Ducat 15. is a thing no way to be found by me that haue sought for it in the paenitentiaria it self and their registers and can find no such matter euer in vse and yet if in countreyes where Iewes are permitted some tribute were imposed 〈…〉 to the help of poor 〈…〉 great matter or were this to 〈…〉 as this companion would 〈…〉 diuers protestant States of 〈…〉 Iewes also to dwel among them 〈…〉 we leaue this poor companion 〈…〉 almighty his indulgence and 〈…〉 the Reader seing he hath not 〈…〉 against Catholyk indulgences 〈…〉 is not worth the recital as yow 〈…〉 OF TVVO OTHER examples of Pardons abused by Catholyks as Syr Francis alleageth but both of them false with a notorious imposture about the poysoning of King Iohn CAP. XV. THE knight hauing fled from the point he should haue proued of doctrine against indulgences as before hath byn declared and betaken himself only to shew certayne abuses which if they were true do make nothing against the doctrine after the former alleaged examples there do ensue in his answere others VVastvvord Pag. 74. in these words Sundry Chronicles do make meâ—tion of Symon the monk of Swinsted who poysoned King Iohn that before the fact he confessed his purpose to his Abbot who highly commended his zeale 〈…〉 before-hand for the committing 〈…〉 I might ioyne the 〈…〉 who murdered the K. of Fraunce 〈…〉 hand confessed and absolueâ— of 〈…〉 〈…〉 two examples as they are both 〈…〉 so I answere first to the last 〈…〉 that S r. Frauncis ought to be 〈…〉 to auouch so weighty a 〈◊〉 by whâ—â— as this without naming some appeare also â— bad except he esteeme 〈…〉 no other then â—atling or telling of newes vpoÌ„ euery mannes speech or fond imagination as men are wont to in barbers
poynts contayned in this matter the one we haue gotten that in some cases spiritual prelates though subiects in temporalityes may reprehend and resist yea chasten also by Ecclesiastical punishment their liege lords and temporal princes without being traytors for the same The second whether the examples be like we are to examine a litle in this place And first I would aske our minister that denyeth the fitnes of the examples The comparison of S. Thom vvith S. Ambrose Hillary and other fathers as also his master that chafeth at them what and where about were the foresayd Saints contentions with their temporal Princes were they not for the defence of the lawes of Christ and his Churche did not S. Iohn Baptist withstand Herod his temporal Lord to his face for breaking the lawes of wedlock and was not the strife of S. Ambrose with Valentinian his Emperour first for that he would not deliuer vp a Catholike Churche to the vse of Arrians as he and his mother had commaunded and secondly for that he would not giue vp the treasure and vessels of his Churche into the Emperors owne hands as he required Heare his owne testimony thereof S. Ambr. in orat in AuxoÌ„ de Basilicia traden Cum esset proposituÌ„ saith hee vt ecclesiae vasa iam traderemus c. when it was proposed vnto vs in the Emperours name that wee should deliuer him the vessel of our churche I gaue this answere If any thing of my owne were demaunded eyther land howse gold or siluer I would easely yeild vnto him any thing that were belonging vnto mee But from the Churche of God I told him that I could take nothing for that I had receyued it not to deliuer but to keep And that with this I had respect also of the Emperours saluation For that it was neyther expedient for mee to giue nor for him to receyue Accipiat ergo vocem liberi sacerdotis c. Let his Maiestie then receyue the word of a free priest if he wil haue care of his owne saluation let him cease to offer iniury to Christ. Lo here the answeare of an ecclesiastical Prelate but a temporal subiect to his highest Prince doth not this seeme to bee speach of some Catholyke Bishop to a Protestant Prince that would inuade Churche goods possessions against which poynt S. Ambrose was so resolute to stand as he sayth in the same place that yf sorce were vsed towards him his flesh might bee troubled but not his mynd and that he was readie yf the Emperour would vse his kingly authority in offring violence to stuffer that which belonged to a good Priest to beare And what doth this differ now from the cause of S. Tho. of Canterbury who stood vpon defence of his Ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ against K. Henry his temporal Prince that vsurped the same Heare the words of S. Thomas himself vsed to K. Henry in a CouÌ„cel at Chynon in FraÌ„ce as D. Houeden sets them downe Rog. Houe in vit Henr. 2. pag. 285. Non deberetis Episcopis praecipere absoluere aliquem vel excommunicare trahere Clericos ad saecularia examina iudicare de decimis de ecclesits interdicere Episcopis ne tractent de â—ransgressione fidei vel Iuramenti c. Yow ought not to take vpon yow to commaund Bishops to absolue or excomunicate any man neyther to draw cleargie men to the examinatioÌ„s of seculars neyther to iudge of tythes or of churches or to forbid Bishopâ— to treat of transgressioÌ„s against faith or against oathes broaken or the like c. Doe not wee seme to heare in this place the voice of S. Ihon Baptist to his K. Herod It is not lawful for the to haue the wyfe of thy brother S. Marc. 1â— Or is not this agreable to the speach of S. Ambrose to Valentinian that he could not force him to deliuer any churche or holy vessels thereof and that he would dy in that quarrel against him But let vs heare an other controuersy of his with another Emperour more deuout religious then the former The contention of S. Ambrose vvith Theodosius the Emperor to wit Theodosius the great in Millain for that he would not do publike pennance prescribed by this holy B. to him for the excesse in punishing those of Thessalonica and had not this beene rebellioÌ„ and treason by Protestants law for a priest to driue his king and Emperour that by their diuinity was head of their churche to publike penance and to go out of his Churche as S. Ambose did compel Theodosius to go out of the churche of Millan But let vs go forward and see the rest of examples before touched Pallad in vit Chrysost. was not the contention of S. Chrisostome with Arcadius and Honorius his Princes Emperours and with their wyues when he kept some of them by force out of his churche about ecclesiastical liberty and iurisdiction also And that also of S. Athanasius Hilarius against Constantius their Emperour and supreme head also according to the Protestants opinion in spiritual matters for that he fauored Arrians deposed Catholike Bishops and made himself vmpyre in ecclesiastical affayres as Protestants Princes doe now a dayes Did S. Tho. Primate of England say or write more to K. Henry at any tyme then S. Gregorie Nazianzen a particular Archbishop sayd vnto his Emperour that was present and angry with him Nazian orat ad Ciues Imper. â—rasceÌ„tem Vos quoque potestati meae meisque subsellijs lex Christi subiecit scio se esse ouem mei gregis sacri gregis sacram ouem Yow also o Emperour the law of Christ hath made subiect vnto my power and to my tribunal I know thee to bee a sheep of my flock a sacred sheep of a holy flock If Nazianzene had sayd this to an English King or should doe at this day how would our Protestants Prince-parasytes cry out and say that he were a proud Prelate as they say of S. Thomas The cheif and onelie contention of king Henry with the Archbishop as before in part you haue heard was about ecclesiastical iurisdiction as the articles set downe by all wryters doe testify The articles vpon vvhich S. Tho. disagreed vvith the king as namely that no Bishop might appeale to the Sea Apostolike without licence of the king that no seruant or tenant holding of the king might be excommunicated without his licence that no Bishop should bee able to punish any man for periury or breaking his faith that all cleargie men might bee forced to secular iudgments as all controuersyes also pertâ—yning to tythes and other like cases And now yf these controuersyes should haue fallen out as in part they did betweene the auncient christian Emperours and the holy Bishops before named would they not think you haue stood in them with no lesse feruour then S. Thomas did But now let vs heare and examine how Syr F. doth proue this holy Archbishop to bee a