priest prophets if they be Christs substitutes as he is a prophet and kings by the same proprietie of speech if they be Christs immediat substitutes as he is a king And so I will go to the next chapter wherby you shall perceaue more particularly that call them as ye list they challenge authoritie like princes or rather popes to deale in many matters CAP. XXV In vvhat causes more particularly their elderships are to deale as they pretend YOu haue heard before of certaine of the seuerall and ioint offices of their counterfeit church-aldermen and likewise in the chapter how they challenge to themselues in their elderships the whole gouernment in all church-causes Now for that it might bee doubted how farre these words Church causes should extend they haue taken great paines to cleare their meaning in that behalfe and so haue vsed the matter to my vnderstanding as that they haue left out no one cause of what nature soeuer but that either directly or indirectly by hooke or crooke they haue brought it vnder their lee and with-within their compasse Read their sayings and then iudge as you see cause All crimes saith Knox that by the lavv of God deserue death deserue also excommunication as vvilfull murderers adulterers sorcerers vvitches coniurers charmers giuers of drinke to destroy children open blasphemers as denyers of the truth raylors against the Sacraments c. And hovv will they proceed in the execution of this censure vpon such manner of sinnes the same order doth specifie A superintendent must direct his letters of summons to the parish church where the offender dvvelleth or if the offender haue no certaine dvvelling place then to the chiefe tovvne and best reformed church in that diocesse vvhere the crime was committed appointing to the offender a certain day and place vvhen vvher he shal appeare before the superintendent his assessors to heare that crime tried as touching the truth of it and to ansvver for himselfe vvhy the sentence of excommunication should not be pronounced against him Here are then new summons and nevv citations Here is authoritie challēged not only to appoint such offices and to vse such iurisdiction but that which seemeth strāge to me indeed to trie a murderer and such like offendors as touching the very facts whether they committed them or not Do they impanall a iurie thinke you as we do in England for triall of the fact or are the elders of the consistorie iudges of the facts as they be of law That is not expressed But what if the partie vpon his summons appeare not That is no great matter Inquisition being taken of the crime he is the next Sunday to be excōmunicated not for his contempt in not appearing but for the very fact it selfe as in their form of excommunication in such cases it is expressed For the inquisition of the crime taken in his wilfull absence shall be a conuiction for his soule let his body escape the temporall magistrats hands as it may This is round dealing A man is condemned of murder and neuer heard for sitting but of one citation in a matter of life and death out goeth their excōmunication Call they this proceeding after the new discipline But to follow this case to the end It happeneth that this murderer is aftervvard pardoned by the magistrat but yet though hee professe repentance he may not be receaued till after fortie daies of triall and vntill hee hath satisfied the kinred and friends of the man that vvas slaine You may say what if they will not be satisfied That I warrant you is prouided for Then ought the church to put moderation to the vnreasonable in case the ciuile magistrat hath not so done before It is very well what the king will not they may Besides when it is sayd that the church ought to put such a moderation you must vnderstand that except the parties do agree to be so put out flieth againe as I suppose their foresaid slipperie censure Againe for all other offences that fall not vnder the ciuile svvord and yet are slanderous and offensiue to the church as fornication drunkennesse vsed svvearing curssed speaking chiding fighting bravvling and common contempt of the order of the church breaking of the sabboth vvāton vain vvords vncomly gestures negligēce in hearing of preaching or obtaining from the Lords table vvhen it is publikely ministred suspicion of auarice or of pride superfluitie or riotousnesse in cheare or raiment c. All these likewise do come by certaine degrees within the compasse of their censures all according to the word of God you must suppose or els you do them wrong Vnto these may be also further added ministers apparell vvomens lasciuious dissolute or too sumptuous attire either publikely or priuatly dauncing all games that bring losse stage-plaies of all sorts haunting of tauerns or tipling houses all inordinat liuers and all such like matters according to the discretion of the eldership cuirelinquenda sunt vvhervnto they are to be left From which discretion it proceeded as I take it that for some disorders committed in Edenburgh about a Robin-hood which the prouost and bailifs would haue staied the vvhole multitude vvere holden excommunicate But yet I haue not done with these causes They grow vpon me more and more And it is no reason that our owne brotherhood of England should be pretermitted They vz. the elderships shall suffer no levvd customs saith the admonitioner to remaine in their parishes either games or othervvise You know their meaning Maipoles Ales maigames moricedances all must downe How doth Robin-hood stick in their stomacks Besides all that haue liued vvith offence to the congregation although they haue suffered the punishment of the lavv for it yet because they offended therby both God the church they are vvithin the limits of the elderships to be censured by them The demōstrator is also very bountiful The office of the church gouernors saith he is to decide controuersies in doctrine and maners so far as pertaineth to conscience and the church censures That is if any shall refuse their said decision they will not indeed whip him or hang him those are ciuile punishments But so farre as the church-censures will reach haue at him Will he run to trouble his neighbour either to the Chancerie to the Kings-bench or cōmon pleas may haue both cōscience and iustice of his eldership at home Such a fellovv shal pay for it It is wisely therfore considered of the humble motioner where he telleth the lords of her maiesties priuie coūsaile that the church is to censure such a partie vvho is apparantly troublesome and contentious and vvithout reasonable cause and vpon meere vvill and stomacke doth vex molest his brother to trouble the countrie Apparātly troublesome that is apparantly to their conceits without reasonable cause vz. to be approued by thē And how can they know how reasonable the cause is except
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
speeches will pretende scriptures But when they haue so done tell them that they peruerte the scriptures to serue their turnes and that thus and thus they must vnderstand them according to the iudgement of all the auncient fathers their aunswere in effecte is this What tell you vs of the auncient fathers Caluin and Beza are the beste expounders of the scriptures Maister Cartwright is a rare birde a worthy wight and as it were Christ himselfe amongest his Apostles They haue taught vs as wee teach they are our fathers who haue begotten in vs a loue and a likinge of the Geneua Discipline and them will wee followe In truth it is pitifull to consider vnto what a height of pride many men are growen It is lesse subiecte to offence to reiect the authoritie of Saint Ierome Saint Augustine or anye of the rest nay to refuse them alltogether then to reiecte the iudgementes eyther of Caluin of Beza or of Cartwright For Maister Caluin and maister Beza I doe thinke of them and of their writinges as they deserue But yet I thinke better of the auncient fathers I must confesse it And for maister Cartwright it is true that hee hath many good partes in him but the ouer-weening which he hath of himselfe and which many besides haue of him is like a lumpe of dowe that sowereth both him and them all You haue heard of what accounte his writinges are with his sectaries insomuch that one of them saith in effecte both for himselfe and for his brethren that without Cartwrightes bookes they cannot come to the knowledge of the truth Cartwrights bookes the way to the truth To speake my conscience they are the waye to manye grosse errors and seditious fancies Of all his bookes I woulde thinke that should beare the price which containeth the iustification of all his deuises and is the last frutes of that Worthies wit I meane his second reply Touching the which booke you shall heare maister Doctor Whitakers opinion from whence especially if some one or two ioyned with him the layer out of men in colours as it hath been sayd will not hastily appeale Thus hee writeth Quem Cartwrightus nuper emisit libellum eius magnam partem perlegi Ne viuam si quid vnquam viderim dissolutius ac penè puerilius Verborum satis ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet rerum omnino nullam quantum ego iudicare possum Deinde non modo peruersè de principis in rebus sacris at que ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit sed in papistarum etiam castra transfugit a quibus tamen videri vult odio capitali dissidere Verum nec in hac causa ferendus alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis mutuatur Denique vt de Ambrosio dixit Hieronimus verbis ludit sententijs dormitat plane indignus est qui a quopiam docto resutetur That is I haue read a great part of that booke which maister Cartwright hath lately published vz this second reply I pray God I liue not if euer I saw any thing more loosely written and almost more childishly It is true that for wordes hee hath great store and those both fine and new but for matter as farre as I can iudge he is altogether barren Moreouer he doth not onely thinke peruersly of the authoritie of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall but also flyeth into the Papistes holdes from whome he would be thought to dissent with a mortall hatred But in this point he is not to be endured and in other partes also hee borroweth his argumentes from the Papistes To conclude as Ierome said of Ambrose hee playeth with wordes and is lame in his sentences and is altogether vnworthy to bee confuted by anie man of learning If anie shall heere obiect that maister Whittakers was not Doctor when hee writ in this sorte My aunswere is this Hee writ this letter about the same time that he beganne to write against Campian when hè had attained alreadie vnto suche ripenesse of iudgement as there is no more daunger hee should nowe be altered in this that hee hath written of Cartwrightes booke then that he should alter heereafter from that trueth which he maintained about the same time against Campian And it is true that hee neuer gaue a righter censure of anie booke in his life Maister Cartwright must content himselfe with it and so must his followers He dependeth himselfe too much vppon Caluin and Beza and so do many amongest vs vppon him Such admiration of mens persons and of their learning must needes be very dangerous It hath euer been the cause of schisme And there was neuer more mischiefe like to grow of it then there is now For I know not how it commeth about but you shall seldome finde any who hath once tasted of the Disciplinary potion that is not forthwith possessed as it were with a wonderfull opinion not onely of the chiefe confectioners and fauourers of it but likewise of themselues And for all other men Fathers Councels newe or olde they little esteeme them if they make any thing against them I might heape vp in this place a number of obseruations which haue been made many hundreth yeares since as concerning suche like courses taken by many and howe they neuer gat to themselues any true reputation thereby but the contrary But I will spare them therein Onely I cannot choose but tell them that the auncient fathers were as wise and learned men as they are that the olde generall Councelles ought to be of as great credite with any but madde men as their conuenticles or Synodes that although wee ought to depend onely vpon the worde of God yet for the interpretation of it we may as safely follow the iudgementes of the auncient fathers of the first generall Councels and of some other learned men as of any of their chiefe patrones and maisters that howsoeuer our owne men doe thinke of themselues yet they are no better then other men Nay there are many equall to the best of them and many who are farre their superiours And I take it that he sheweth himselfe to be their best friendes who by telling them their wantes can bring them to some humilitie In which respect Maister Cartwright is to thanke Doctor Whittakers for signifiyng his iudgement touching that his great bundell of shreddes which some rashe and fond men doe so greatly admire It is most certaine that although the flattering of Parasites doth seeme to bee pleasant yet the woundes of a louer are much more profitable CHAP. XXX How falsly they alleadge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish Bishops and Elders BY that which hath been said in the 5. chapter it appeareth vnto you what litle help they are to look for in the ancient fathers toward the setting forth of the Geneua plat forme They talke of certaine steps traces of that hare in them but more they confesse in some places that they cānot find And yet notwithstanding
therefore we confesse that their subiectes ought to obey their ciuile commaundements which may be kept without the breach of Gods law and that not onely for feare but also for conscience sake Thus farre Zanchius whose iudgement in this pointe will be esteemed of I suppose hereafter when all that either is or can be sayd by any man to the contrary will fall to the ground or vanish like smoake If it be saide that Zanchius writeth truely but that my allegation of his wordes is altogether impertinent for that the Bishops of Geneua had neuer any setled right in the ciuile gouernement of that citty I am not the man that will either iustify mine owne discretion or impugne any thinge which may bee brought for the ciuile proceedinges of that state or of any other so as they carry no false groundes of Diuinity with them which may prooue daungerous vnto our owne such as haue bene since published for the authorizing of subiectes in many cases to depose their Princes Christ refused to be a deuider of priuate mens inheritances and then surely it doth not become me to be a decider of any titles to countries citties or kingdomes I pray for all and will not further meddle with any Now it remaineth that hauing made relation vnto you of the premises as you haue heard I should also acquaint you more particularly with the alteration that was made at Geneua in the order and forme of the gouernemente of the Church Wherein you shall finde some greater variety both of actions and pollicy M. Beza speaking of the reformation of religion in that citty sayth that Christes Gospell was established there mirabiliter wonderously A wonder the common saying is doth last but nine dayes but that wonderfull course which he speaketh of will not bee forgotten I suppose in hast As you haue heard that the Bishop of Geneua was dealt withall for the principality of that City so was he vsed as touching his Bishopricke The Ministers cryed out that his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was as vnlawfull as his ciuile Wherevpon the Bishopricke was dissolued and that forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vtterly abolished whereby that citty had bene ruled in Church-causes from the time that first it receiued the profession of christianity Together with the ouerthrow of which Bishopricke all the orders constitution and lawes of the Church which had beene in framing by all the learned men in christendome euer since the Apostles times were at one stroake quite chopte of and wholy abrogated vnder pretence forsooth of the name of cannon lawes the popes lawes and I wot not what Wherein the ministers dealt as wisely in mine opinion as if some king succeeding fower or fiue of his predecessors whome he hated should therevpon ouerthrow all the lawes that eyther they or any other of his predecessors had euer made before him Maister Caluin being charged by some as it seemeth with the rashnesse which was vsed at Geneua in this point doth excuse it thus in effect vz. that they deale therein as men doe with rotten houses they ouerthrewe all the whole forme of ecclesiasticall building as once as it were into a rude heape out of the which they might the better make choyse and take of that olde stuffe as much as liked them to build withall againe afterward Indeede there are many builders in these dayes of such a kinde of humor Nothing will content them but that they build themselues And therein also they are very inconstant Now this must downe now that must vppe now this must bee chaunged and that must bee enlarged here the workemen mistooke me this is not in good proportion away with it I will haue this square chaunged into a rounde and this rounde altered into a square A fitter metaphore could not well haue beene found to haue shewed the vnstayed minds of such manner of reformers But to proceed The auncient forme of ecclesiasticall gouernement with all the Elders thereof being thus ouerturned as the citezens in the framing of their newe ciuill gouernement had an especiall eye to the manner of the ciuill gouernement of their neighbour citties and states adioyning so had both the magistrates and the ministers at the first also great regard of the ecclesiasticall pollicy in the same citties relying principally vppon their forme of Church-gouernement and vppon their orders and ceremonyes in that behalfe prouided But this Church Modell was also shortly after wholy misliked For the ministers perceiued that as they thought the ciuill magistrats had too great authorie giuen vnto them in church-church-causes that they themselues had a great deale too little Maister Caluin speaking of this manner of reformation calleth it but a correcting of the Church And Beza yeeldeth a reason why Farellus Viretus contented thēselues with such a simple Church-gouernement vz. in effecte to my vnderstanding not that they were ignorant what insufficiency there was in it but because in such a hurly burly and great chaunge of things they could haue no better and afterwardes when they woulde faine haue bettered themselues the rest of the ministers that should haue ioyned with them therein were fearefull to attempt so soone any new alteration The same yeare that Geneua was assaulted vz. 1 5 3 6. Maister Caluin came thether and was there admitted non concionator tantum hoc enim primum recusarat sed etiam sacrarum liter arum doctor not onely for their preacher for he had refused that before but also for a doctor of the holy scriptures In which place hee was scarcely warme when like a man of courage reiecting all feare hee tooke in hand to frame a new platforme for the gouernement of that Church or as Maister Bezaes word is ecclesiam componere to compound the Church being of likelyhood before in his opinion tanquam dissoluta scopa as a dissolute Chaos and vndigested bundell And in very short time hee did so farre prouaile therein as that hee caused the cittizens being assembled together to abiure their former popish gouernement as they termed it by Bishops and to sweare to a certaine draught of discipline paucis capitibus comprehensam comprehended as Beza saith vnder a fewe heades What the forme of this draught was I finde it not any where mentioned But whatsoeuer it was it appeareth that both he Farellus and Viretus so vsed themselues in the administration of it as that the rest of the ministers and the chiefest of the cittie grew quickly very weary of it For through their rough dealing in diuers pointes especially in opposing themselues against the orders of Berne before that time receiued there and particularly for their obstinate refusing to administer the Lordes supper with vnleauened bread according to a resolution giuen to that effecte by a Synode at Lausanna of the ministers of Berne which resolution since Beza calleth iniquissimum decretum for these and such like causes I say they were al three of them within nine monethes after
their setting vppe of their short plat of discipline bannished the cittie The causes before mentioned of this their bannishment were giuen out thus in generall termes Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem voluerunt nouum pontificatum reuocare They would haue beene tyrants ouer a free cittie they would haue recalled a new papacy And here beganne the Consistorian humor which raigneth nowe amongst the factious sorte in England to shew it selfe but yet in a more secrete sorte by their priuate letters one to an other Their fauourers and partakers whome they lefte behinde them at Geneua presently after their departure entered into faction and refused to receiue the communion with vnleauened bread as it had beene ordered they should doe by the said Synode at Lausanna The ministers that remained in the cittie after them were greatly disgraced For in that they continued their ministery there without the newe Discipline they were said to hold otiosam functionem an idle function The Senate of two hundred that expelled the said three preachers was termed by Caluin tumultuos a perditorum hominum factio a tumultuoas faction of rakehells castaway es Beza saith that in that councell the greater part ouercame the better But then by the way they were not all of them such manner of men as Caluin reporteth The chiefest magistrates of the cittie euen the Syndickes were termed factionum et discordiarum duces the ringleaders of factions and dissentions They were resembled to Nabucadnezar and the exiles to Daniell And generally they gaue it out against all their backe frendes that they went about to ouerthrowe the Church and that they had obdurated themselues against the Lord Iesus Christ. These and such like speaches you must thinke were giuen out then secretly but since they are published in printe for other ministers instructions which may hereafter receiue any checke about that kinde of discipline Hetherto for ought I finde the pretended discipline had no great successe I must therfore proceede on forward These three preachers being thus banished their friendes at Geneua were maruailous earnest to haue them thither againe Many letters were procured from certaine churches and learned men to the magistrates in that behalfe as you shall partly perceaue by diuerse epistles set out vnder the title or together with Caluins epistles Euery one likewise in the Cittie that held for the discipline did his best with the people But Maister Caluin was the man whom they all of them most desired for the rest being else where placed they cared not much Vnto these endeuours may be added some very wise courses taken by Maister Caluin in the time that he discontinued from Geneua Cardinall Sadolet hauing written to the Geneuians in dislike of the alteration both of their state and of the Romish religion admonishing them to returne to their olde byace Maister Caluin aunswered him and iustified as he thought meete their proceedinges therein to their very good contentment Also where some that of his owne friends had greatly laboured to discredite the ministers of that cittie which were lefte to the griefe of the magistrates endeuoured to haue brought them vtterly into contempt for executing their ministerie without the pretended Discipline c. Maister Caluin staied that course by writing vnto them that he doubted not but that their ministers deliuered vnto them the chiefe heads of Christian religion which were necessary to saluation and that also they ioyned thereunto the right vse of the Sacramentes And then saith he where those two pointes are performed illic substantia ministery viget there is the substance of the ministerie and a lawfull honour and obedience is to be giuen to that Ministery Lastly the mutinie mentioned which was about refusall to communicate with vnleauened bread he likewise appeased by perswading the authours of it that it was a matter of indifferencie for the which they ought not to disquiet the peace of the Church By which occasions together with the former sutes mentioned the Citie as I iudge hauing conceaued a better opinion of maister Caluin then they had before and supposing that if he came againe amongst them he would vse a great deale more mildnesse and moderation in his proceedinges then hee had earst done they were at the last contented after two yeares bannishment and more to recall him vnto them vz in the yeare 1541. Whilest his friendes were labouring for him as you haue heard he himselfe perceiuing that hee shoulde returne thither was still harping to his friendes vppon this string how he might haue the Citie so bound to the forme of Discipline which he had in his head as that afterwardes they might not when they list start from it And therefore as soone as he was come thither hee imployed his studie that way especially At the first offering of his paines to the Senate he told him that the Church there could not possibly continue except there were same certaine forme of Church gouernement established Whereupon the Senate ordered at his request that he and fiue other of the Ministers should conferre together about such a forme as they thought meet and that hauing so done they should offer the same to the consideration of the said Senate Here then you shall see the strength of maister Caluins wit He wisely saw that notwithstanding the Bishops ecclesiasticall authoritie had been vtterly disgraced and was thereupon reiected as being forsooth Popish and tyrannicall yet it was not good for the Church that the ministers should bate the citie one ace of an ecclesiasticall authoritie aequiualent at the least to that which their Bishops formerly had enioyed amongest them Howbeit he well perceiued withall that for the bringing of this matter about there must be verie good pollicie and circumspection vsed or else that it would be a thing impossible to bring a people hauing gotten their libertie into the like or a worse seruitude then they were in before His plot therefore as I take it was as followeth He laboured to perswade the people and the Magistrates that as there was a ciuile Senate for the gouernement of the Citie and the territories thereof in ciuile causes so by the word of God there should be an ecclesiasticall Senate for the gouernment of the same Citie and territories conteining aboue twentie parishes in causes ecclesiasticall And to this purpose he wanted not I warrant you very many probable reasons The persons that should beare authoritie in this Senate I nothing doubt but that he could haue been very well contented they should haue been all of them ministers euen as the ciuile gouernment did then wholly consist of ciuile persons But by reason of the great authoritie that the preachers had before intituled the ciuile magistrates vnto for the bannishment of their Bishop for their dealing in Church causes wherewithall they were in some sorte possessed hee very wisely considered with Farellus and Viretus that if they tooke that course
great hatred and malice Insomuch as writing to his friendes he complayneth in this manner We haue too many of a hard and vntamed necke who vpon euery occasion do endeuour to shake off the yoake that by their tumultes they mighte abolish the lawfull order of the Church There are in that nomber both olde men and young men The youth especially is here most desperate And to Viretus Nisi dominus c. except the Lorde doe rebuke the sea and the windes I see there are greate stormes toward vs which they mooue who ought rather to appease them I dare not call you hether for many causes The chiefest is for that I am afrayd how at the length we must giue place vnto them who will neuer end vntill they haue ouerthrowne all Likewise to the same Viretus Many are such children that they are affrayde at the ridiculous shaking of a head c. Si desistam totum consistorium ruat necesse est if I desist there is no remedy but downe falleth the consistorie Great tumults were vp amongst them in the cittie and therefore he altered his former mind touching his not calling of Viretus and requesteth him most earnestly as beeing more gratious then himselfe to come and helpe to appease them You cannot possibly doe a thing sayth he that shall be more gratefull vnto me then if you shal make a good ende of these quarrells me ad Garamantas relegato though I be bannished into the farthest partes of the worlde And in another epistle Eo prorupit improbitas vt retineri qualemcunque ecclesiae statum diutius posse meo praesertim ministerio vix sperem Impiety hath gotten such a head that I canne scarsely thinke there can anye tollerable state of the Church continue here especially by my ministery These dissentions proceeding thus on for a time at the last they came to this issue vt maior Senatus receptum et bactemus seruatum ecclesiae ordinem repente conuelleret Nos restitimus that the greater Senate did sodainely ouerthrowe the order of the Church which had beene receiued and kept But we withstood them An argument of very good subiection Much trouble would surely haue come of it but that vpon a sermon preached by Maister Caluin and after vppon a motion made by him and the rest of the ministers to the Senate order was taken that for the quieting of all partes the said sentence of the greater Senate should be suspended vntill the state of Geneua had taken the aduise of foure Heluetian citties their neighbours and friendes touching the pointes in question vz. about the authoritye of their Consistorie to suspend men from the communnion as they sawe cause which is the verye scepter of that pretended Syon When this course was taken marke I pray you Maister Caluins pollicy He knew as in effect he saith that none of the magistrates of anye of those fower citties woulde write any aunswere to the cittizens letters of Geneua but by the aduise of their ministers Wherevpon whilest the Syndickes with their councells were conferring about their letters to be sent to the foresaid citties how and what they should write yea peraduenture who should endite them Maister Caluin presently speedeth a messenger one Budaeus with his priuate letter vnto his priuate friendes as to Maister Bullinger c. and with other letters also to the rest of the said Ministers ioyntly of purpose to prepare and pre-occupate their mindes beforehand against their magistrates should write thither Now I am come to the very panting or short breathing of the Consistoriall pretended Discipline whether it shoulde liue or die at Geneua The daunger it lay in was exceeding great but maister Caluin applied all his skill and medicines for the recouerie of it Few Phisitions will take such paines for their patientes In his said letters hee omitteth no point of his oratorie faculty The aduersaries of his discipline he painteth out in their collours as that their Senate was possessed with a lamen table blindnesse that they had dealt contumeliously with poore straungers that they had vsed Farellus very hardly that diuerse of them were such as shamed not to defend Seruetus the hereticke and that they were Sathans Ministers that stirred vp these strifes He indeuoureth to moue all commiseration towardes himselfe and his associates in respect of their paines and daungers vndertaken in the behalfe of that Church as that for seuen yeares together they had been impugned by all those that sought to liue riotously from vnder the yoake that for the space of foure yeares nothing had been pretermitted by the wicked whereby they might by little and little ouerthrowe the state of that Church and that for the last two yeares their condition was no better then if they had liued amongest the professed enemies of the Gospell He ascribeth very much vnto the ministers to whome he writ which was an especiall meanes to procure their good fauours As when he saith now the matter is come to this point that all our ecclesiasticall orders shall be quashed nisi istinc afferatur remedium except there come a remedie from you Againe you must so deale as if the state of our Church were in your handes Againe nunc extremus actus agitur now the last act is vpon the stage and the enemies of the Gospell are beginning alreadie to triumph against Christ his doctrine his ministers and all his members Againe so perswade your selues that if Sathan be not now bridled by you habenas ei laxatum iri he will get the libertie of his bit hereafter at pleasure And againe I beseech you brethren by the name of Christ to thinke that it is no common matter that is committed vnto you but that the consultation to be had is of the state or very being of our Church He touched furthermore all other points which hee was sure would be especially regarded by them being themselues ministers in that he saith that if their aduersaries get the victorie the whole authoritie of the ministerie is not onely gone in Geneua but that it will be subiect to euery base rake-bels reproches Which if it should happen he telleth them that he was resolued to depart thence Vnto all these artificiall points thus insisted vppon by him he addeth another of no lesse importance to drawe the said ministers mindes vnto the bent of his bowe For notwithstanding hee ascribeth so much vnto them as before hath been shewed yet he qualifieth all in such sorte as that they might suspect that except they did concurre with his desire he would hardly for his part yeald to anie thing that might crosse him He writeth vnto them very moderately of his cōsistoriall platforme He saith he is not ignoraunt how diuerse learned men do not thinke that forme of Discipline that hee writeth for to be necessary but yet hee addeth what his owne opinion is of it and that he trusteth no man of iudgement
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
men had offered in the beginning to the Bishops to performe al due obedience vnto them if they would be content to reforme religion they were now againe constrained to make the same knowen more generally both to the Emperour and to all the sayd Princes still offering for their parts as much as they had done before and that if they would but cease to impose vppon them their intollerable burdens of single life of mens vnlawfull and wicked traditions which they did further specifie and to forbidde them to doe those things which God commaunded they should doe that then they would with all their hearts most willingly yeeld vnto their Episcopall iurisdiction and to the restoring of the same where it had beene abolished Vouchsafe I pray you to heare their owne testimonies to this purpose You shall thereby well perceaue that if they were now aliue in England and should finde their names so vsed as they are against the gouernment of our Bishops they would take it in very ill part and be heartily sory for it Thus the authors of the Augustane confession and all the learned men that haue subscribed thereunto in which nūber Caluin is cōprehended haue professed touching this matter The Bishops might easily retain the obedience due vnto them if they vrged vs not to keepe those traditions which wee cannot keepe with a good Conscience They impose a single life and will receaue none that will not swear neuer to teach the pure doctrine of the Gospell Againe we haue ofte protested that we doe greatly approoue the Ecclesiastical pollicy and degrees in the Church as much as lieth in vs doe desire to conserue them We doe not mislike the authoritie of Bishops so that they would not compell vs to doe against Gods commaundement Furthermore we doe here protest and wee would haue it so recorded that we would willingly preserue the Ecclesiasticall and Canonicall pollicy if the Bishops would cease to tyrannise ouer our Churches This our minde or desire shall excuse vs with all posterity both before God and all nations that it may not be imputed vnto vs that the authority of Bishops is ouerthrowen by vs. Besides I would to God saith Melanchthon I woulde to God it lay in me to restore the gouernment of Bishops For I see what a manner of Church we shall haue the Ecclesiasticall pollicy being dissolued Video postea multo intolerabiliorem futuram tyrannidem quà m antea vnquam fuit I doe see that hereafter will grow vp a greater tiranny in the Church then euer there was before Moreouer mira dissipatio erit Ecclesiarum ad posteritatem c. There will be a wonderfull confusion of Churches left to our posterity except they may now bee ioyned together againe and haue certain Bishops who may be enforced to gouerne the church and looke vnto them more diligently then in times past they haue beene looked vnto Againe by what right or law may we dissolve the Ecclesiasticall pollicy if the Bishops will grant vs that that in reason they ought to graunt Et vt liceat certe non expedit And if it were lawfull for vs so to doe yet surely it were not expedient Luther was euer of this opinion whom many for no other cause I see doe loue but for that they thinke they haue cast off their Bishops by means of him and haue obtained a liberty minimè vtilem ad posteritatem which will not be profitable for our posterity For tell me what estate will the Churches be in hereafter if all the olde orders be abolished and that there bee no certaine rulers ordained To the same effect also saith George Prince Anhalt Earle of Ascaine Lord of Sewest and Brewburge vtinam c. I would to God that those which carry the names and titles of Bishops would shew themselues to be Bishops in deede I wishe they would teach nothing that is disagreeable to the Gospell but rule their Churches thereby O quam libenter c. Oh how willingly and with what ioy of hart would we receaue them for our Bishops reuerence them obay them and yeeld vnto them their iurisdiction and ordination c. Id quod nos semper Dominus Lutherus etiam c which we alwaies and Maister Luther both in words and in his writings very often haue professed And Caluin himselfe writing to Cardinal Sadolet concerning the course that had beene held at Geneua as touching the reformation of Religion and in excuse thereof against his challenge doth shew himselfe to be of the same minde he was of when he subscribed to the said confession of Augusta professing that for his part he could haue beene well content that the Bishop there should haue kept his authority and iurisdiction still so that he woulde haue yeelded to the bannishment of Poperye For thus hee writeth Talem nobis Hierarchiam si exhibeant c. If they bring vnto vs such an Hierarchy or Priestly gouernment wherin the Bishops shall so rule as that they refuse not to submit themselues to Christ that they so depend vppon him as theyr only head and be content to referre themselues to him in which Priestlye gouernment let them so keepe brotherly society amongest themselues that they be knitte together by no other rule then by the truth then surely if there shall be any that shall not submitte themselues to that Hierarchy or Priestly gouernment reuerently and with the greatest obedience that may be I confesse there is no kinde of Anathema or curse or casting to the diuell whereof they are not worthy And againe in the same Epistle he vseth these wordes following tending to the great commendation of the authority of Bishops Statue quaeso c. Sette before your eyes I pray you the ancient face of the church as it was amongest the Grecians in Chrys. and Basils times and as it was amongest the Latinists when Cyprian Ambrose and Augustine liued and then behold the ruins of that face as now they are retained in the Church of Rome And there will appeare as great difference betweene them as the Prophets describe vnto vs betweene the excellent estate of the Church that flourished vnder Dauid and Salomon and that Church which in Zedechia and Ioachims dates was fallen into all kinde of superstition and had defiled altogether the purity of the worship of God This Epistle was written by Caluin to the Cardinal 1539. at such time as being remoued from Geneua he remayned at Strasburgh where hauing great acquaintance with Melanchthon Bucer and diuerse other learned men hee carried himselfe in such sort as was greatly to their likings Insomuch as whilest he remained at Strasburgh the Colloquies at Wormes and Ratisbone being appointed by the Emperour for the compounding of controuersies in Religion the learned men that were sent thither for the Protestants reckonned Caluin a meete man to take thither with them Which I thought good to obserue because hereby it will further
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
hands the carefull charge or procuration of Churches as pertaining to their dutie Good Kings and Princes do maintain true religion and by the aduise of their priests vvhen any great defections happen do pull dovvn the false And where Cartvvright doth charge the Papists to constraine their Princes for the keeping of their decrees be they good or bad although it be true in deed that they do so and that those of his owne stampe likewise vvhere they raigne are nothing more fauourable vnto them as farre as their might will reach yet as he doth in this matter prefer himselfe and his adherents before them it is but a meere cauil For the Papists holding this ground that their Councels and Popes in such their decrees and conclusions as it pleaseth them to make cannot erre that being graunted it followeth of necessitie that euery Christian Prince ought to put them in execution and to punish those that shall oppose themselues against them So that vvhatsoeuer they do impose vpon the Church they affirme it is good euen as Cartvvright doth his discipline which he would intrude vpon vs both of them ioining in this point that as wel Cartvvrights new ministery as the popes priesthood will be the iudges of their owne decrees whether they be good or bad and then what leaue they to the Christian magistrat more the one sort then the other Surely this wall riseth very slowly as yet but peraduenture the third part will be higher thē the other two when you haue viewed them iudge Our meaning is not sayth Cartvvright vtterly to seclude the magistrat out of our church-meetings for often times a simple man as the prouerbe sayth the Gardiner hath spoken to good purpose c. He may be assistant and haue his voice in such assemblies Out of question you deale very bountifully with your soueraign But to helpe him in building this part of his wall I will set downe what is the vttermost that he yeeldeth to herein if hee haue not retracted the same as afterward it shall be considered The Prince may call a councell of the ministerie and appoint both the time and the houres for the same The ciuile magistrat is not vtterly to be excluded from such assemblies as do meet for the deciding of church-causes and orders he may be there assistant and haue his voice but he may not be either moderator there nor determiner nor iudge Neither may the orders or decrees there made be sayd to haue bene done by the Princes authoritie And therefore in times past the cannons of councels vvere not called the Emperors but the Bishops decrees Princes may be assistant in councels and ought to defend the same assembled if any behaue themselues there tumultuously or othervvise disorderly the Prince may punish him The Prince ought to confirme the decrees of such councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Thus hereof Cartvvright and now come in the papists It vvas lavvfull in times past for emperors to call councels to appoint both time and place for the same And maister Harding confesseth that princes may do so still by the aduise of the clergie Princes and their embassadors according to their estates haue most honourable seats in all councels may sit there as assistants giue their aduises make exhortations to the Bishops to be very circumspect and carefull and in the end may subscribe vvith them to the causes there decreed But they may not sit there as iudges moderators or determiners and therfore in their subscriptions they vvrōt not as bishops did definientes subscripsimus but consentientes Neither vvere the councels called Imperatoria but Episcopalia Princes may be assistant in councels Nay sayth Saunders they may be presidents ouer Bishops in councels ad pacem concordiam retinendam vt nullum fieri tumultum permittant tumultuantem vero custodiae mancipent and cause such assemblies to auoid all delaies All Christian princes ought to confirme the decrees of generall councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Compare these places with Cartvvrights words and tell me what great difference ye find betweene them But what if Cartvvright as I sayd haue retracted these points then it must needs be confessed that the Papists do yeeld more to Christian princes in causes ecclesiastical then the puritans CHAP. XXIIII Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of Princes in church-causes and in the aduancing of their ovvn IT appeareth in the latter end of the two and twentith chapter how by a fine distinction of raigning vnder Christ as he is onely God and vnder Christ as he is mediator they first would exclude all Christian princes from their lawfull authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall ascribing no more vnto them then as if they were heathens except it be to execute their pleasures and to maintaine them which they say is the dutie also of all the heathen rulers and secondly how by the same distinctiō they lift vp their own horns as if it were so many popes challenging euery one of them together with their elderships to be Christs immediat vicars for church-causes vpon earth In the substance of which doctrine although they do all agree yet when they come to the particular grounds whervpō they would gladly lay their foundations of it there they are distracted and do confound themselues I meane not to enter here any further into this matter then as cōcerning the sayd distinction with the seuerall branches thereof Cartvvright bestoweth soure leaues to prooue that no ciuile magistrat may be called the head of the particular church within his dominion And his cheefest reasons are drawn from the parts of the distinction mentioned Now when he laboureth so much vpon this word head hee knoweth that we meane thereby nothing els but a chiefe authoritie and he wrangleth of purpose that whereas his opinion is direct that no ciuile magistrat as he is a ciuile magistrat hath any office in the Church he might dazle the eies of his reader as though he could bee content to maintaine the right of the crowne and did only insist vpon the word head But to muster them together about the said distinction Cartvvright sayth that our Sauiour Christ as hee is the sonne of God only or as he is onely the Creator and preseruer of mankind coequall vvith his father he is the gouernour of kingdoms and common-vvealths and not as hee is the sauiour and redeemer of mankind But the humble motioner doth tell vs from Scotland another tale peraduenture vpon the credit of the brethren there Christ sayth he hath all povver and superioritie aboue all principalities either in heauen or in earth he is Lord of lords and King of kings and the Prince of kings in the earth he is Lord of all kingdoms and common-vvealths to dispose and rule them at his pleasure
that for as much as Christ is neuer seuered from his body nor from any part of it and is able and dooth performe that vvherefore he is called head vnto all his Church therefore there is no need of any subordinate head ouer any particular Church or as he sayth there can be none As if a man should reason thus Christ is our sauiour our priest our prophet and our king Christ is our sheapheard our doctor and our archbishop Christ is neuer absent from his church nor euer will be and he is able to performe that wherefore he is called our sauiour our priest our prophet our pastor our doctor our bishop our archbishop our archfeeder therefore we need no priests pastors doctors bishops or archbishops neither ought there to be any such subordinate or ministeriall meanes allowed of or permitted for the sayd benefits of building teaching and gathering of the church The collections in my opinion are both alike Againe by the same phrase of speech that Christ as mediator is called by him els-where the head of euery particular church and in that respect euery particular church is tearmed his body So Christ as he is the sonne of God only to graunt him for a minute so much being the head of euery particular kingdome it may be said that euery particular kingdome is his body Now then whereas he reasoneth thus very grauely in his owne iudgement If the church be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue tvvo heads vvhich vvere monstrous Why may not I in like sort make this inference if the common-wealth be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue two heads which were mōstrous which collection being ridiculous by his own phrase offspeech his said argumēt is also ridiculous For my part certainly I do thinke that the word heard as it is yeelded to christiā princes signifying nothing els as I sayd but a cheefe ruler I see no cause then why it should be a more monstrous thing for thē to be subordinat rulers of the church vnder christ then to see princes thrust downe and six or seuen base persons a malster a brewer a baker a mason a smith a butcher a tinker and such like aduanced to that so high an authoritie Well as our prouerbe sayth Be it as it bee may and that is no banning If Princes will bee thus dallyed withall let them for me and they shall bee the first that will repent it But vvhat should they do when they heare their authoritie so substantially impugned by so worthie persons with such inuincible arguments such demonstrations such collections such concurrencie in their opinions such concord such notable agreement together in their grounds for that purpose Indeed you will say so when you shall see how after they haue foiled princes in such sort as it hath bene declared they intitle themselues and their wise and worshipfull Eldermen to their authoritie You cannot imagine mens bodies to be faster tied together with the strongest rope that euer was made of sand then their minds and iudgements are fast lincked and vnited in this matter As now it shall partly appeare after I haue layd before you three or foure of their new quircks very pertinent to this place some of them haue bene alreadie touched but you cannot heare a good thing too often They affirme if I can vnderstand them that euery wel ordered parish hauing an Eldership in it is the perfect bodie of Christ that Christ is properly to be called as well the head of euery such particular body or church as he is of the Catholicke church Against whome by the way I might oppose a chiefe diuine of New stadium a Consistorian towne in the Palsgraues countrie who sayth that as the Church is called the body of Christ it properly signifieth Solos electos the elect onely and that all particular churches as the members of the Catholike church do make but one body of Christ vvhereof hee is to bee called especially the head But I will not stand vpon these points onely I touch them that it might still appeare how well they agree together Then to proceed The same men likewise affirme that euery one of their mentioned well ordered parishes is a representation and as it vvere a liuely portraiture of the vvhole or Catholicke church and that singularum ecclesiarum idem est ius euery such parish Catholicke church hath equall authoritie no more one then another And now I draw nere to the pith of this matter For as touching the gouernment of euery one of these particular bodies of Christ or of euery one of these demie catholicke churches they hold that princes being iustly dispossessed their pastors doctors and aldermen are by right Christs immediat and subordinat lieutenants or vicars generall But now for as much as our sauiour Christ say some of them is a priest a prophet and a king and all in respect that he is both God and man our only mediator and redeemer Here beginneth a new skitmish from which of these his dignities they must deriue their interest whether their said vice-gerents are to challenge their soueraigntie from Christ as he is a priest from Christ as hee is a prophet or frō Christ as he is a king For as the great learned clearke that made the booke of ecclesiastical and ciuile policie affirmeth vvhosoeuer is to be called Christs vicar hee must be so tearmed either in respect of all those his three offices or of tvvo of them or of one at the least It hath bene commonly held heretofore that Christ taking vpon him the ministerie of the gospell to preach and teach the same did ordaine his Apostles and disciples to ioine with him in that part of his priestly office In regard whereof it hath also bene defended against the papists that euery lawfull minister is as much the vicar of Christ or his substitute to teach his people as the bishop of Rome and that they ought all of them equally when they preach the word pray for the people or administer the sacraments to be receiued heard and intertained as Christs embassadors Christs ministers euen as though Christ himself in his own person did presently here vpon earth execute these offices Besides it is vrged by the Counterpoizer many other that Christ hauing translated the Iewes Sanedrim into his church he hath appointed vnto vs for the Ievves priests our pastors and for their teaching Leuits our doctors c. Whereby it followeth that if the priests of the old law were Christs vicars as he was their priest the pastors ought so to be in the time of the gospel But the excellēt politian he vseth the matter in such sort as by no means the ministers of the word may haue any tenure of their offices vnder christ as he is priest Ne ipsi quidē pastores erunt Christi sacerdotis vicarij quod tamen falso
hee shall thereby incurre the high displeasure of these Rabbies which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne yet I say againe vvhat is left to the magistrat The iniurie is confessed afore There shall need no triall of the fact where so many witnesses may be vsed to prooue his confession afore if now he should denie it All that the magistrat hath to do is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie and to tax my charges If you say nay hee will heare the cause againe Indeed I confesse he had need to do so But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and troubled Besides that course would turne to the vtter discredit of the presbyteries that their dealings fitting in the seat of Christ should come to be scanned by those that are but humane ordinations For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet that vpon certificat from them the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense and to rate mine expenses without any further adoo Some such thing it is though not in this very case which the ministers of the low countries haue desired Thus a very graue man borne amongst them reporteth of this matter Ministri nullam habent coërcendi potestatem nec habere volunt Tantùm cupiunt vt magistratus puniant eos qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent Quod nunquam sunt facturi nisi prius de tota causa legitime recognouerint actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris consistorij Quod seniores ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant In haec absurd a inciderunt propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē c. The ministers there haue no povver to correct any man neither vvill they haue any Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such as should refuse to obey their cōmandements vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv the ministers of the consistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge not to be agreeable to their ministerie And they are fallen into these absurdities he had also before named some other through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops You see their desire in this case and it may in mine opinion bee stretched to the former And then as I haue shewed through scandales offences consciences and I know not what pretences challenges and counterfait prerogatiues the iurisdiction of their elderships will be so large as the ciuile magistrats iudges and lawyers shall not need to be greatly troubled These things with all the premisses of this chapter considered I dare say you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many and so infinite causes And to satisfie your longing the learned discourser shall first speake his mind Our sauiour Christ sayth he in the vvord church alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters amongst them the like vvhereof he vvilled to be established in his church for administration of gouernment What you will say but weightie matters How come they now to al matters euen to Robin-hood maigames and may poles Ye say truly but Cartvvright will supply this defect For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves and of the sinagogue saith he from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church And M. Beza Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege cur non valeat in ecclesia sub euangelio authore Christo Math. 18.17 non video I see not why the same authoritie that the Synagogue had vnder the lawe shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter it is good reason it should bee so But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes let vs see what prettie tales they will tell vs of those times They say and it is true that the Priests were the Lawyers of the land And would they be so now If the same pollicie continue why should they not They tell vs further that in ciuill causes when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction If that also were a good pollicie and that it be continued by Christ then I see no reason why it should not againe be now established in all places They say that the 17. of Deuteronomie from the beginning of the eight verse vnto the ende of the thirteenth doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate where it is said that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud between plea and plea c. did belong to the priestes and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination If this pollicie be in like manner continued who then in the common-wealth but the ecclesiasticall Elderships Matters of bloud and of all pleas Who would not take those points to be more ciuil causes It is true But they tell vs that when the priests dealt in any of those causes they dealt not in them ciuilly but ecclesiastically It will trouble a man to find out their sleights But one example to this purpose you shall haue When such a doubt did rise saith Beza Non de facto Not of the facte for that was meere ciuill but Deiure what the law was in such a case then the Ecclesiasticall Eldership determined thereof and that doone the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall one for matters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes consisting of temporall Iudges and another for matters of Conscience for all sortes of offences and for matters of lawe consisting of ecclesiasticall persons some Pastors and Doctors assisted in solemn maner with their church Aldermen Suppose then I pray you that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall such a difficult matter in lawe as is pretended commeth before the Iudges of some fact whereupon downe they come from their seats and go to the Elders May it please your Maisterships there is such a cause before vs which seemeth to be a foule matter if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid what is the law in this point The Elders consult together resolue them The Iudges giue them a legge returne to their places the cause falleth out according to the complaint and so they pronounce the sentence as the Aldermen taught them Suppose I say all these things
orders to this poynte in the newly subscribed booke of discipline Plurium sententiae verbo Dei consentaneae singulares omnes eius cansilij conuentus ecclesiae parere debent All Churches must obey the sentence of the greater part of that Councellor assembly vnder whose direction they are the same being agreeable to the worde of God And agayne It is made a part of theyr Aldermens office to see Vt quae à conuentibus piè decreta retulerint à ciuibus suis earum ecclesiarum studiosè obseruentur that those godly decrees which they shall bring from the assemblyes bee diligently obserued of theyr Cittizens of those Churches Lastly Conuentus sententia rata habeatur donec à conuentu maior is authoritatis secus iudicatum puerit Let the sentence of euery assembly bee ratified vntill it shall be otherwise iudged-of by an assembly of greater authoritie As a classicall to bee ouerruled by a prouinciall a prouinciall by a nationall a nationall by a generall And thus they write of theyr owne orders and assemblyes Which rules take them altogether as they lye if they bee true as I doe not greatly dislike them being well applyed then do these busie bodies among vs sin most directly against theyr own consciences in that they oppose themselues as they do against those things which the greater part of the national Sinode high court of parliament of this Realme hath allowed of beeing most agreeable to the worde of God before some generall Councell or assembly of more authoritie haue iudged otherwise and determined for the course that they haue proceeded in Generall Councell I am sure they haue none And for any other assembly that hath beene held and should haue greater authoritie in England than the nationall Synode of all our owne Churches and the high Court of Parliament let them name it In their writinges generally they exclayme against the high Commission or at the least against the Commissioners as many of them as bee clergie men affirming it to bee against the worde of God that any such should bee of that Commission And yet in Scotland it was agreeable with the Scriptures that fortie or fiftie at the least Ministers of the worde as I conceyue it shoulde bee verie great Commissioners from the King Anno 1589. to very manie great purposes euen for the purging of that lande from all sortes of enemies to the religion there professed Likewise earnest suite is made in the Supplication before mentioned to her Maiestie and found in Fields study that the foresaid foure twentie Doctors that should bee of the Parliament house might be likewise generall Commissioners vnder the great scale of England or the more part of them to beare and determine all and euery secte errour heresie contempt default and misdemeanour agaynst the worde of God and her Maiesties lawes of reformation of religion to depriue any Pastour not dooing or neglecting his duetie to examine witnesses and to imprison the bodyes of all such malefactors and to certifie their names to the Lordes of her Maiesties Councell that they may receiue further condigne punishment Besides there bee some that resemble the high Commission nowe in force vnto the authoritie which they challenge to theyr seuerall Elderships Whereupon one of them acquainted I doubt not with the desires of the rest sayth That if the high Commission were setled in fiue hundred places more than it is and shoulde gouerne by the worde of God and lawes of this Realme there would rise more profit thereby to religion than yet hath beene found by the Bishops He would haue it in fiue hundreth places Scotland is diuided into two and fiftie Eldershippes and of likelyhood they would haue fiue hundred in England And that as I take it is the mystery of his number of fiue hundred To conclude I finde another motion which liketh wel that if there were fiue hundred Elderships more or fewer established yet there might be in euery great Towne certaine Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall appoynted to looke that the Elderships did their dueties if they did not to compel them therunto by ciuill authority So as therby it appeareth that although our Bishops other Clergie men may not be such Commissioners with vs in some few places yet their Pastors Doctors Aldermen may in euery parish or so many of them or I knowe not whom as it should please her Maiestie to assigne to euery greate Towne Surely the worde of God is much troubled with such kinde of choppers and chaungers of it euery giddy heade wresting and wringing it to serue his owne deuise Wee shoulde haue Commissions to thatch houses withall I see if they might be our directors They are offended with the authoritie that her Maiestie dooth giue vnto her Commissioners for causes ecclesiasticall as beeing vnlawfull in that by vertue of that commission they may sende sometimes for offendors to appeare before them by purseuants and commit them to prison as occasion shal fall out and theyr faultes misdemeanors and contempts shall require But at Geneua the like authoritie in effecte is lawfull in their Eldership For there the Consistorie hath a Beadle sergeant or purseuant or as you lift to tearme him appoynted by the ciuill Magistrates to attende vppon it whose office is to call such before the Consistorie as the Aldermen shall appoynt him And for imprisoning of any offendors and contemptuous persons there is notany matter almost for the which they may call a man before them but one parte of the punishment of it by the lawes of the Cittie is imprisonment As if any when hee appeareth in the Consistorie or els where be so hardie as but to speake euill of any of the Ministers or misname them he is to be imprisoned Besides as I haue noted it before theyr Elders are alwayes of the Councell of state and seldome or neuer but they will bee sure to haue one of the foure Syndickes to bee of that bench So as together they raigne lyke Lordes in theyr Consistorie and who dare say My Lordes why doe you so If they direct imprisonment is but a small matter I speake not agaynst that order there let them vse it as they thinke good Only I see not why the worde of God should bee so bountifull to them and is so sparing to vs. In that by the orders of our Church and the laws of the Realme there is required of Ministers a subscription to her Maiesties lawfull authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes to the Articles of Religion and to the Communion booke c. greate quarrels haue beene raysed and many exceptions are taken against it Insomuch as one a wise man I warraunt you dooth ascribe all the daungers that haue beene complotted against her Maiesties person by the traitrous Papistes the dearth of corne the cause that we haue had such watching and warding by souldiers and lastly that the Spanyards would haue inuaded this land
euerie king prince being as he saith a new Pope by that meanes much worse then the olde So that hereby you see what is the drift of our factious cōsistorians in laboring to make the name of the Canō law odious You may not think that they differ in substance frō their M. Viretus but they are growē more crafty The matter that pincheth thē is this that in the acts of Parliament which are in force there is euer a Prouiso that nothing therof shal be in force which is contrary to the laws of this Realme or to the prerogatiue roiall of the prince If euer anie K. in England should be so far seduced as that he would yeald to establish their counterfeit elderships in this Realme with all the royall authoritie which they challenge of right to belong vnto thē changing the two former prouisoes should enact it that all the canō-law shold be in force sauing so much as should bee contrary to the orders prerogatiue of their elderships If I shold then be aliue as I trust I shall not I durst before hand hazard a great wager vpon it that they would most readily with a great applause receiue it almost worship it For as I said you may not imagine but that Viretus hath disclosed their verie hartes You know there is in euery church for the most part a distinctiō of places betwixt the cleargie the laity We terme one place the chauncell the other the bodie of the church which manner of distinctiō doth greatly offend the tender consciences forsooth of the purer sorte of our reformers Insomuch as M. Gilby a chiefe mā in his time amongst thē doth tearme the Quire a cage reckoneth that separatiō of the ministers from the congregation one of the hundred points of popery which hee affirmeth do yet remaine in the church of England Howbeit admit but of their elderships into euery parish thē you haue thē who will proue it out of the word of God that there ought to be such a separation of their Aldermen euery one of thē though he be but a Cobler from the rest of the Idiots that is all the other parishioners of what state soeuer Hic or do in ecclesia seruetur c. Let this order be obserued in the church saith Danaeus he sendeth vs the rule frō Geneua that these who do beare any office in the church distinguātur et separentur a reliquo populo may be distinguished separated frō the rest of the people c. It a fieri decorū est et vtile For it is decēt profitable that it should be so The Bishop he meaneth euery minister must stand or sit eminente loco alofte c. and let the elders sit by him tum vt populo appareant that the people may beholde them tum vt ministri concionantis doctrinam facilius intelligant et obseruent and that they maye the more easily heare the doctrine of the Minister preaching and the better marke it For of likelihood they are to be the preachers Censors You wil saie peraduenture wher there is some L. Maior some Councellor of state or some other great Magistrate Nay the King himselfe for he must bee of some parish where shall he or anie of them sit That is wiselie prouided for I warrant you For how should it otherwise be seeing the Prouiso commeth from Geneua Magistratus pius c. Let the godly Magistrate who is an honorable member of the Church sit in an honourable and perspicuous place where the Church may neither seeme to fauoure the arrogancy and pride of men nor the contempte of Magistrates And great discretion therein surely If the Magistrate should sit too high it would make him proude if too low it would bring him into contempt Ergo modus in loco illi concedendo seruetur c therefore let a mean be kept in appointing of a place vnto him Knight Lorde Earle Duke King or Emperour the holie Discipline respecteth no mens persons that he may both vnderstand he is preferred before the rest and yet withall that he hath no dominion ouer the word of God In deede excesse in anie thing is nought Sedeat itaque inferiori subsellio let him therfore sit in a lower seat then the preacher of the word of God and the Prophet that he may both see and acknowledge himselfe to be subiect to the threats of the word The parson or Bishop of euerie parish with his Artizan Elders must sitte in the highest place that the people may feede themselues with the sight of them the ciuile Magistrates of what degree soeuer must content themselues with inferior roomes and the rest of the people are to sit super mattas sedilia inferiora vppon pesses and little lowe formes I am perswaded it would greatlie trouble the subiects of England to see such a Metamorphosis in her Maiesties Chappell But see what a notable thing Discipline is and how the Ministers of Geneua can plaie the Herralds in marshalling of euerie state into their due places according to their callings If these men were then in England and should suruey our Quiers I suppose nothing would offend them but that that they are too low The place where the Roode-loft was would bee thought peraduenture more sutable for their Elders Indeed there the people might best behold them Lastlie because I will end this Chapter if Cartwright can get but one Scholiaste that doth in shew make for anie thing he liketh it is notable to see what reuill hee maketh with it And in like sort Maister Beza when the Fathers do fit him as in some points they doe against Erastus then these manner of phrases are common Rectè obseruauit Augustinus Augustine wel obserued it c. Againe an vero Chrys. c. what doe you thinke that Chrysostome and all the old Churches not one excepted saw not this Againe Hic te obtestamur frater c. we do here besech you brother that you would wel consider in whose behalfe and against whom you dispute cum rem ipsam ab vsu non distinguas when you distinguish not the thing it selfe from the abuse of it Againe Haec Chrysostomus quae tibi satisfacere rectè debent These thinges Chrysostome affirmeth which ought to satisfie you fully Again Nunquam aliter fuit hic locus in Ecclesia explicatus This place was neuer otherwise expounded in the Church And againe A temporibus Apostolorum ad haec vsque secula nunquam illa caruerunt Ecclesiae From the Apostles times euen vnto the age wherein we liue the Church did neuer want autoritie of Excommunication And as at times they are content to accept of the Fathers so will they also vpon the like occasion allow of generall Councells Whereas certaine persons in Transiluania beganne to reuiue diuerse old Heresies about the person of Christ Maister Beza writeth in this sorte An non in
Pope to him-selfe But I will leaue these immodrate and forraine dotages specifie vnto you some of our domesticall I confesse to you saith the displayer of men in their colloures I reuerence D. Fulke and no disparagement vnto any I thinke him vniuersally as well learned as euer Caluin or Beza was And in an other place Put it to the censure of D. Fulke D. Whittakers Maister Cartwright c. Men I hope as well able to iudge as all the L. Bishops in christendome Againe No question but Caluin and Beza are wide sometimes Also afterwarde The verie ornaments of your vniuersitie indeede whose verie names and liues doe carry with them aestimation to bee reuerenced D. Fulke D. Goade D. Whittakars to these men I appeale And furthermore If wee should once or twise and vse it not set D. Fulkes learned iudgement against the bare authoritie of Caluin and Beza in this case I doe not see that it be any great preiudice or disparagement vnto any Diuerse other such like speeches there are in that booke whereby a man may see how the brethren are affected vnto their parte-takers Although he nameth some who will neuer thanke him for it and I supose hee hath done them great iniurie in making them to seeme the patrones of such fancies as there are mainetained I made mention before of Cartwrights place amongst certaine disciplinary worthies But my meaninge is not so to passe him ouer whom all the rest of our men doe soe admire His authoritie in deede is very great as being in effecte the Patriarche of them all Those thinges that he writeth are almost oracles Happye is the brother that canne come in his companie If hee bee in prison prayers are made for his deliueraunce if hee bee deliuered great thankes are publickely giuen vnto god for the same If hee commaund the rest obey if hee shall relent I thinke they will all relent When great matters are to bee handled he must needs be one in euery place Couentry Cambrdige London c. And vppon any new accidents the occurrents are caried to him as to their chiefest counsaylor Salute our most reuerent brother maister Cartwright for whome prayers are made with vs. As soone as I knowe of maister Cartwrightes deliuery I sent for maister Trauers and we had psalmes of thankesgiuing prayers to the same purpose and a sermon his text being the 20 of Ieremie 10.11.12.13.14 verses I percciue by those imperfect writinges of maister Cartwrightes and others that the pointes of reformation are at large and particularly debated Wee want bookes whereby wee may come to the knowledge of the truth I meane T. C. bookes The forme of gouernment set down by T. C. is commanded by god I thanke god I haue satisfied in part my longing with conference with M. Cartwright of whom I thinke as she did of Solomon I would gladly knowe when I might come from Oxford to London to see T.C. Maister Snape vpon one of his examinations before her Maiesties Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical findinge some matters to haue bene further disclosed then he looked for presently directed his letters thereof into the countrey mouing his frend that maister Cartwright might be aduertised It were good saith he you sent to T.C. with speed I would gladly heare whether T. C. did councell you or demaund councell of you I wish the matter maye bee well and closly handled For I heare some whispering allready yet among them that fauour the cause that he hath councelled the brethren rather to vse those corruptions then to leaue their charges I wish and hope it be not so not onely least men should iudge the man to be inconstant but especially for that these times be such that in them such yealding will doe no good Maister D. Bridges hauing occasion in his writinges to name Maister Cartwright did forget to carry this word M. vnder his girdle but called him plainly Cartwright Wherat see how maister Trauerse repineth Wee acknowledge and reuerence maister Cartwright as his rare guiftes of knowledge zeale his learned works constant suffering in this cause and at this time his continuall trauell in preaching the Gospell doe worthely deserue for which cause hee was worthy other respect then the replier here doth giue him If hee would needes set downe his name hee shoulde haue considered the example of the Apostle who yet seldome or neuer mentioneth any minister of the Gospell by name yea scarse anye professor without some good marke of the grace of god in them But this and a great deale more both hee and whosoeuer shall serue god as they ought in this cause of the further reformation of the Church must account to endure of them that oppose themselues to this most necessary seruice I had lately some speach with Maister Cartwright concerning our next meeting who aduised me to put you in mind of some thinges c. Hee saith that at your late being together at Wroxall you determined our nexte meetinge to bee at Warwicke at the quarter Sessions that twesday for the humbling of our selues and the day following to consult of other matters His request is that you will giue notice thereof vnto the brethren of our conference and also that by your meanes there may bee some of vs appointed to exercise in priuate that day If this his request connot conueniently bee performed then I take it necessary thot you write so with some speede to M. Cartwright that hee may prouide a remedie else where M. May and I ridde with M. Cartwright to M. Throgmortons two miles out of Warwicke where hee preached more he sayde then euer he did in his life before c. On tuesday M. Cartwright kept M. Fens lecture text psalme 122. 4. vnto the ende takinge thrones as Tremellius doth and vrginge the discipline the want wherof hee affirmed to bee the cause that some friendes forsooke our church and enemies as Papistes would not come neere her I pray you remember to reserue for mee one of the rare birds bookes his name may bee right Cartwright God bee praised though hee cannot speake vnto vs yet accordinge to his name hee doth write He is a worthy wight Sicut discipuli olim presto habuerunt ipsum Dominum ita magistrum Cartwrightum dominum meum habeo presentem as the disciples in times past had the Lord himselfe amongst them so I haue M. Cartwright my Lord in presence with me And thus hetherto of these poore simple but yet most palpable parasites The disciplinarie crue a company of Apostles and Cartwright their Christe Christe amongste his Apostles and Cartwright amongst his Disciples If Cartwright and such other guides were not supposed by their followers to bee very notable Thrasoes is it possible that any man of common sence would shewe themselues to bee such flattering Gnathoes And these are the menne for-sooth that in all their
at another time and when they haue forgotten themselues they will of purpose I feare it to abuse the worlde stand very much vppon the auncient fathers and bragge of their authoritie exceedingly As Cartwright doth in these words most vntruly We propound nothing saith he that the scriptures doe not teach the writers both olde and newe for the most part affirme and the examples of the primitiue Churches confirme Did euer any manne regard Cartwrightes credite who considering what hath beene noted out of his bookes in this whole processe doeth not pittie him with all his harte to heare him so farre to forget himselfe Hee is a manne of good learning which maketh mee to woonder at him It is surely great pittie that euer hee was so maried vnto his Eldershippe For it hath vtterly ouerthrowne all the good partes that bee in him The best lawyer that is when hee giueth himselfe to shiftes and to feed his clyentes with quirkes refusing not to brabble in anye cause be it neuer so false he looseth his estimation and with the grauer sort is little regarded Howe truely Maister Cartwright affirmeth that he and his fellows do propound nothing but that the old writers for the most parte doe affirme and the examples of the primitiue church confirme I trust it hath in part already appeared vnto you in sundry places but especially in the 5. as I saide and in the 27. Chapters I haue heard some Councellers at lawe vse the verye like course of speach when notwithstanding the cause hath falne out most directly against them yet they haue cried out Oh my Lord wee haue these and these olde euidences to shewe such and such depositions doe make for vs verye manifestly wee haue yet many witnesses to bee examined and thus they will proceed with many cracking wordes as though there had beene nothing which had made against them Is Cartwright able trowe you to finde his Parish Bishops and his counterfeit Lay-Elders which two pointes are in effecte all in all with him in the auncient fathers and primitiue Church Hee maye say as truely that the Sonne shines at midnight But yet hee sayth that Ignatius and Cyprians Bishops were but as our pastors or parsons arein euery parish For his vnministering Elders hee alledgeth the same Ignatius and Cyprian and for a surcharge hee bringeth in also Tertullian Hierome Possidonius and Socrates where they make mention of priests I was once purposed to haue set downe the places themselues which they so violently peruerte to bolster out such theyr apparaunt falshood and to haue aunswered them But then I remembred howe effectually that had beene done allready by diuers learned and woorthie menne and of late more fully and largely by two especiall persons whose books one of them is in printing and the other presently comming to the presse and therevpon I altered my mind in that point And yet something thereof agreeably to the course which hetherto I haue obserued that may peraduenture amaze some of them Vppon some occasion falling out maister Cartwright affirmeth that if the now Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury had read the ecclesiasticall stories hee shoulde haue founde easiely the Eldership most florishing in Constantines time vz. in hauing then such Bishops and Elders as hee fancieth to himselfe For he must bee so vnderstood To whome replie being made that he should bring but one ecclesiasticall historie that affirmed so much after some three or fower yeares hee brought two vz. the historie of Magdeburge and Eusebius His testimony out of the first he setteth down in these words The centuries must needes haue told him that the same orders and functions of the church were in that time which were before And what would he inferre hereof Surely if hemeane honestly and doe not dally with the word before refering it further then the Centuries meant it which was but to the age that succeeded the Apostles he could not haue directed a man to any history now extant that doth more directly confound his assertion For there the authors of that history doe most plainely affirme that by and by after the Apostles death necessitas coegit personarum gradus aliquos constituere et conseruare necessity compelled the fathers then liuing to ordaine certaine degrees of persons in the church and to conserue them This is most directly against Cartwrights assertion although for mine own part to note it by the way I thinke the Apostles knowing the necessitie mentioned had taken that order before But to follow the said historie There were three degrees then ordained say the said authors vz. Episcopatus presbyterium Diaconatus the degree of Bishops of priesthood and of Deaconship For the proofe whereof they cite Ignatius Eusebius Theodoret c. and the very place of S. Ierome where he sheweth how for auoiding of schisme one was chosen amongst the ministers to haue preheminence ouer the rest and to whome the name of Bishop was peculiarly then attributed And as concerning the priests or Elders they doe shew it out of Eusebius Nicephorus Irenaeus Iustine c. that their office was to preach the Gospell and to administer the sacraments c. The Centuries thus we see will not serue M. Cartwrights turne to the iustifying of the florishing estate of his Eldership in Constantines daies I wil therfore come vnto his sec̄od authority which he bringeth out of Eusebius It is manifest saith he that the churches were gouerned vnder Constantine by Bishops Elders and Deacons by that which is recited of an infinit number of Elders and Deacons which came to the Councel of Nice with the 250. Bishops It is manifest indeede And it is also as manifeste that there were at that time both Archbishops and Patriarches But there were at that Councel both Bishops Elders and Deacons And what then I know that many men haue wrested many places directly contrarie to the authors meaninge but I doe not remember anie one place within the compasse of my small readinge that is more grosly peruerted then this place is For M. Cartwright running still his old biace would haue men to thinke that by Bishops Eusebius meant so many parishe-ministers and by priests or Elders his said counterfaite Aldermen And his authoritie is so greate amongest his sectaries who professe their Gleaninge after him that what-so-euer he bringeth they take it vpon his credit and so runne on with a conceite that not onely all other authorities brought by him out of the auntient Fathers mentioned are truely by him expounded and applyed but that also euen this place of Eusebius is to bee vnderstood as here he woulde haue it Wherein surely they are much to blame to depend so much vpon any mans credit If they them-selues had euer read either the Fathers or the ecclesiasticall histories they coulde neuer possibly haue beene miscarried so palpably A frinde of mine hauinge some talke not many yeares since with Maister Cartwright about this place of Eusebius
alledged and expounded by him as you haue heard vrged him verie earnestly that he woulde indeede tell him truely whether hee beeinge a man of learninge and so coulde not bee ignorant of Eusebius meaninge did not sinne euen against his owne conscience when he cited that place to such an ende and purpose as hee had done His aunswere was that hee did not and that hee was still of the same minde therein that hee was before Why Sir replyed my friende As Eusebius sayeth that there were an infinit number of Elders and Deacons which came to the Councell of Nice with the 250 Bishops So it is reported by Socrates that in the sayde Councell it had beene decreed by the Bishops c. but for Paphnutius that Bishops Elders Deacons shoulde haue companied no more with their wiues Quas cum erant laiui in matrimonium duxissent which they had married when they were lay-menne And now must wee expound Socrates in this place as you doe expounde Eusebius doth Socrates meane by priestes there your manner of lay Elders was the Councell bent to haue debarred such men from their wiues Speake your conscience truely I pray you Maister Cartwright aunswered againe that hee verily thought in his conscience that by priestes there Socrates vnderstood the saide Elders and that the Councell meant to haue seperated them from their wiues And this reason was because within a while after there was some question whether Subdeacons might marrie My sayde friende replied againe that hee was verie sory to heare his aunswere and that he verily thought the like interpretation of Socrates wordes was neuer made before nor would euer be made hee hoped by anie after him And so they parted Afterwardes my sayde friend findinge that when hee told some persons of great place how M. Cartwright did expounde the said words of Socrates they would hardly beleeue him but supposed rather that he had mistaken them did write a letter vnto him desiringe him most earnestly that if he c̄otinued in the same mind he left him he would be content to returne vnto him in writing some further reasons thereof then formerly he made at his being with him Maister Cartvvright hereupon writ backe againe vnto my friend I haue his letter in my custodie excusing himselfe that through want of bookes he could not satisfie his expectation so fully as he would But for the point I speake of thus he writ Touching that it seemeth strange vnto you that the gouerning elders should haue bene in danger to haue bene forbidden mariage in the councell of Neece I thought I had satisfied you in alleaging that not long after there vvas great hold amongst the councels vvhether Deacons yea Subdeacons should be married So as now that which before stood only vpon the credit of the relator is readie to be shewed vnder maister Cartvvrights hand as it hath alreadie bene to diuers of this disciplinarie disposition who as I haue bene informed and partly do know all of them haue vtterly signified their great dislike of that point And yet either he must of necessitie so interpret Socrates or els be driuen to giue ouer Eusebius and so both he and all his Aldermen to take their leaue of the Ecclesiasticall histories and bid them adieu But yet there is another thing in maister Cartvvrights sayd letter which is very fit for you to vnderstand that so you may see how he foileth himselfe One thing sayth hee vnto my sayd friend in your letter I thinke you mistake me in that you esteeme that I should hold a bishop and a minister of the vvord all one in the times of the Nicene councell For notvvithstanding that I hold that in the Apostles time and vvith S. Paule it is all one to be a bishop and to be a minister of the vvord yet it vvere a foule ignorance in me if I should not haue knovvne that long before the councell of Neece the name of bishop vvas for the most part appropriated to one in a church C̄osider I pray you how the man was mistaken If by elders Eusebius should haue meant his counteirfet laie rulers must he not then by his 250 bishops most necessarily haue meant so many parish ministers pastors or parsons except he will say that there was no such ministers there which were as new a paradox as the rest But how agreeth this of the difference he confesseth betwixt a bishop and a minister of the word long before the councell of Neece with some other of his sayings else-where in print such as there are The bishop that Ignatius speaketh of vvas but the minister of a particular congregation Againe Ciprians Bishop vvas nothing els but S. Pauls bishop that is one that had cure and charge of one flocke Again the bishop vvhich S. Ciprian speaketh of is nothing els but such as vve call pastor or as the common name with vs is Parson and his church vvherof he is bishop is neither diocesse nor prouince but a congregation vvhich meet together in one place and bee taught of one man Now ioine these things together and see what a Gallimawfrie ye haue May not a man misdoubt that maister Cartvvright is not yet resolued of his owne opinion Haue not his scholers great cause to reioyce in glaining after so constant an author What can he pretend to salue his credit withall Hee will neuer secke a refuge for shame out of these words vz. For the most part As though he should thus expound S. Ierome where he saith that when some began to hold of Peter some vpon Paule and some vpon Apollo which was as I take it in the Apostles times it was then decreed throughout all the world that for auoyding of schismes one minister who was called a bishop should haue authoritie and iurisdiction ouer all other ministers in his diocesse that is true should Cartvvright say throughout all the world except at Antioch and Carthage two little hamblets where Ignatius and S. Cyprian were but plaine parsons euen like the parsons of Hitchin and Newington Not many yeares since a friend of mine was commanded for a certaine purpose to contriue the cheese matters in controuersie about the pretended discipline into certain questions And it is pertinent to the matter I now speake of to acquaint you with two of them The first because of the pretence which is made as you haue heard of the ancient fathers was this VVhether can it bee shevved out of any ancient father out of any councell either generall or prouinciall or out of any ecclesiasticall historie for the space of 1500 and od yeares euen from the Apostles times till of late that in the ordinarie distribution of church-officers since that time euer vsed into Episcopos Presbyteros diaconos Bishops priests deacons vvhether can it I say be shevved that this vvord Episcopus that is Bishop vvas at any time taken there and vsed by the churches in any countrie for a common and vsuall
not past an hower before they had in an other company depraued peraduēture most egregiously And maister Beza you must imagine hath bene an old courtier and knoweth wel what policie meaneth Plaine dealing certainly is best but often-times it falleth out that it is not the readiest way for hammering and busie farre reaching heads to compasse their purposes If this excuse do seeme too simple let any that list make a better No man doth wish it more heartily as I thinke then my selfe that maister Beza should thinke well of the present church-gouernment established in England so he do it plainly faithfully and directly which will not happen I feare it in hast Neither haue I alleaged his former words to that purpose as though I tooke all that for gold which he can make to glister The point I prosecute is this that you might perceaue how they begin to leaue off from vrging the Geneuian platforme with such important necessitie as formerly they haue done But most of all it pleaseth me to see how maister Cartvvright draweth homeward For as the Anabaptists by their madnesse kept maister Caluin within some good compas and as maister Beza hath bene compelled in some sort to retire himselfe from his former eagernesse so assuredly the phrenetical giddinesse of these our new vnbrideled schismatickes who for pretended puritie are many degrees beyond al the Sauoyan disciplinariās hath wrought a miracle to my vnderstanding vpon M. Cartvvright For heare him how for feare of falling into flat Donatisme he was fain to plead against one that had bene his scholer in the behalfe of the church of England so bitterly before by himselfe impugned The ordinarie assemblies sayth he of those vvhich professe the gospell in England are the churches of Christ which he proueth in this sort Those assemblies vvhich haue Christ for their head and the same also for their foundatiō are Gods churches Such are the assemblies of England therefore c. Againe they that haue performed vnto them the speciall couenant vvhich the Lord hath made with his churches of pouring his spirit vpon them and putting his vvord into their mouthes are the churches of God but such are the assemblies in England therefore c. Hereunto may be added sayth he further the iudgement of all the churches of Christ in Europe all vvhich giue the right hand of societie in the house of God vnto the assemblies vvhich are in England Againe to prooue that the church of England is the church of God notwithstanding it want the pretended discipline he vseth this distinction that as it is in mans body so is it in this matter there are certaine parts essentiall and such as vvithout the vvhich a man cannot stand and some seruing either to his comlinesse or to his continuance And of this latter sort he maketh the discipline and lastly he writeth thus To say that the church of England is not the church of God because it hath not receaued this discipline me thinks is all one vvith this as if a man vvould say It is no citie because it hath no vvall or that it is no vineyard because it hath neither hedge nor ditch Thus farre maister Cartvvright In which his manner of speech you find a very great alteration from his ancient stile And as concerning the necessitie whereof I intreat the wind you see is turned There is no more necessity in England of the Geneua platforme then that euery citie in this realme should be walled about And besides the pretended discipline is become not to be any longer of the essence of the church but as appertaining to the comlinesse of it But how these things will accord with the premises namely his subscriptiō before mentioned to the new booke of discipline where the same discipline is made to be essentiall or whether maister Cartvvright hath changed his iudgement againe since he writ that answer to Harrison I will leaue it to be discussed by them that know his vnreuealed mind better then I do In the meane time that which he hath graunted I thinke it meet to take hold of And this I will adde vnto it that if maister Cartvvright would but conferre with some that haue skill in fortification to know of him whether an old thicke wall of lime and stone made many hundred yeares since or a new sleight wall slubbered ouer and wrought with vntēpered morter some few yeres ago whether I say of these 2 walles are of better defence for any citie I should be in good hope that he would in short time leaue the disciplinarie walles of Geneua and content himselfe with the ancient fortifications of the church of England and the rather because he seeth as I sayd in the former chapter what a giddie and itching humor his nouelties haue bred in the vnstayed sort of many fantasticall people CAP. XXXV Of the pretended commoditie that the elderships vvould bring vvith them and of the small fruits that they bring sorth vvhere they are THat which hath bene sayd of the commendation of this pretended regiment may fitly be applied to this place But now further of the commodities which they say it would bring with it inseparable consequents belike thereof I will trouble you only with three mens testimonies who it seemeth haue collected together that which is thought fit to be published to this purpose If vve had this gouernment God vvould blesse our victuals and satisfie our poore vvith bread hee vvould cloath our priests vvith saluation and his saints should shout for ioy It is best and surest for our state and there is nothing comparable to the establishing of it for her maiesties safetie It vvould make men to increase in vvealth and that they vvould not easily be dravvne after any great man to sedition and rebellion That her Maiesties person hath bene so oft in danger that we haue had some dearth of late yeares and that the Spaniards attempted to inuade this land they ascribe it to the want of this their gouernment It vvould cut off contentions and sutes of lavv c. by censuring the partie that is troublesome and contentious and vvithout reasonable cause vpon euill vvill and stomacke should vex and molest his brother and trouble the countrie If this gouernment vvere restored then you should see learning nourished young and olde called from blindnes to light from wickednes to vertue and pietie Then many woulde change their studies from Law Phisicke Musicke scholing c. and manye would leaue their trades and parentes would thinke theyr cost well bestowed and diuerse waies comforted to preferre their children to the studie of Diuinity Then there woulde be an vnity of the Church Then should the Papist quaile the Anabaptist waile and the Atheistes be amazed There could not bee so many seduced hanged aud quartered as there are Then no licences could steale away mens daughters the people should finde out the trueth and perfection of
Iustice. By this the wealth and honour of the Realme woulde be encreased and contentions brawles and vnnecessary pleas would be preuented idle men of all sortes might be sette in order and the poore men greatly comforted The nobility and comminalty might haue their right Men would not grudge at triflinge charges for Warre Souldiers woulde bee made obedient to their Captaines patient and couragious It woulde bring strength and victorie and keepe out of Kinges Dominions ignoraunt wicked and flattering men Here out of the defence of Ecclesiasticall gouernement Pag. 121. 122. 123. 127. 134. Whereof commeth it that Arrians Valentinians and Anabaptistes with other detestable Heretiques are so rise in many places in this land is it not thereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that horrible blaspheming the holye and most reuerend name of God quarrelling and fighting dronkennes filthy speaking fornication adultery slaundering and such like runne ouer almost in euery place Is it not hereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that in so many excellent lawes prouided against rogues and beggers there are yet such numbers is it not hereof that the office of Deacons is abolished These are singular commodities indeede which these Elderships woulde bring with them if these men might be trusted But haue they brought forth these fruicts and effectes in those countries where they are established or are they but vaine wordes of ambitious men that by such godly pretences doe little else but seeke their owne glory Consider I pray you what very learned and graue men haue written in other countries of these and such like men as these and their fellowes are together with the estate of some of those countreis wher they haue their Elderships Maister Bullinger writing to a Bishop in England of our English innouators saith thus They imitate in mine opinion those seditious Tribunes of Rome who by vertue of the Agrarian Lawe bestowed the publicke goods that they might priuately inritch themselues that is that you meaning the Bishops being ouerthrowen they might succeede in your places c. But they goe about to erect a Church which they shall neuer aduaunce as they desire neither if they shoulde can they euer be able to continue it And after in the same Letter I woulde to God there were not in the Authors of this Presbytery libido dominandi an ambitious desire of rule and principality Nay I thinke it ought especially to be prouided for that there be not any high authoritye giuen to this Presbytery c. Whereof manie thinges might bee saide but time will reueale many thinges which yet lie hidde Maister Gualter in like sorte writeth thus to the Bishop of London for the time being Many doe vrge in these daies vnder a plausible name of Ecclesiasticall Discipline I know not what a platforme without the which they denie that any Churches can continue But I doe greatly feare least they bringe vs in an Aristocratie which will shortly degenerate into an Oligarchie and become the beginning of a newe Papacie For their onely labour is to sette vs vp a Presbyterie whereinto certaine honest men are indeede admitted but yet so as the Ministers will doe in a manner what they list It was of late decreed by the Ministers at Heidelberge that no man should bee admitted to the Lords Supper except he first offered himselfe to the Pastor For Paules rule is not helde sufficient there vz. that euerie man should trie himselfe The Elders did not agree to this decree but yet notwithstading it is vrged in the name of the Presbytery nay of the whole Church c. But there was not long since suche an example of a new tyrannie there as may iustlie feare anie that careth for the liberty of the Church There is there an Heluetian the Gouernour of the Colledge of Saint Denis as innocent and godly a man as liueth Howbeit Oleuianus the Pastor warned him by the crier of the Presbyterie in the name of all the Elders that he should not come to the Lordes Supper adding this cause that he could not admit him absque animi sui offensione without the offence of his minde The party tooke this dealing as it was reason in euill part and defireth to know what he hath committed that deserued such a punishment But they answered him not otherwise then that they continued in the same minde Whereuppon he offered a Supplication vnto the prince Elector that he would compell them to shewe the fault if there were any that he had committed But vntill this daie he coulde extort nothing else in effect from them This is their goodly order this is their Discipline Quare video nobis seriò vigilandum esse ne ex Romanae hydrae vix domitae vulneribus noua capita pullulent wherefore I see we are to be vigilant least new heads doe budde out of the woundes of the Romish hydra scarsely yet subdued And in another letter to the Bishop of Ely of the same matter he addeth that the Prince Elector vppon the said parties complaint did moue the Elders to shew what hee had committed that they dealt so with him Sed ne hoc ab illis impetrare potuit but he could not preuaile so much Marry at the last saith Maister Gualter being many waies more earnestly vrged thereunto they fell to coining of lies and perswaded the Prince that he abstained from the Lords supper of his own accord and now of that his voluntary forbearing woulde knowe the cause of them Many such things are done which it woulde be too long to rehearse Seeing they beginne in this sorte hauing not as yet any full possession of their new kingdom what shall we thinke they will doe si merum imperium obtineant if they obtaine an absolute authority By this letter also it seemeth that long since by Oecolampadius meanes notwithstandinge Zwinglius withstood it there was such a like forme of regiment erected in Basill but shortly after saieth Maister Gualter he was compelled to giue it ouer againe learning by experience that he had attempted a matter of greater discommodity then profite I cannot therefore dislike of them that oppose themselues to these endeuours who so busily in these daies pleade this for matter c. There are in Germanie and in another certaine plâ—â—e hee meaneth I thinke Geneua that denie the kingdome of Christ canne continue except the Discipline which they haue deuised be receaued in euery place I doc containe my selfe that I may not bee saide to haue begonne the fight Sin illi Classicum cecinerint but if they sound vp the Alarum I cannot choose but defend the doctrine of truth and the libertie of the Church not doubting but that many will ioyne with mee herein The same Gualter also again in another letter to the said Bishop of Ely I shall not neede to vse many wordes what I thinke of your innouators sith I haue done it in my last
you of vs or least those things which we haue written of Ecclesiasticall policie properly against that Antichristian tyrannie as necessitie required are taken by some in that sense as if euer we had meant to compel to our order those churches that thinke otherwise then we doo of it and the gouernors of them agreeing els with vs in the truth of doctrine agreeable to the word of God and that except they followed our order we accounted otherwise of them then their godlines and dignitie and mutuall brotherhood doth require c. Farre be this arrogancie from vs. Quis vllum nobis in vllam Ecclesiam imperium tribuit Who doth giue vs authority ouer anie church Far be it from vs that we should thinke so the substantiall matters be kept there ought nothing to be graunted to antiquitie nothing to custome nothing to the circumstances of places times and persons c. Againe in his booke against D. Sarauia hauing spoken of the tyrannie of Popish Bishops hee maketh this exception Neque tamen But wee doo not therefore accuse all Archbishops and Bishops now so called of tyranie For what arrogancie were that Nay so as they doo imitate the examples of the olde holy Bishops and indeuor as much as they can to reforme the house of God so miserably deformed according to the rule of Gods word why may we not acknowledge al of them now so called Archbishops and Bishops obey them and honor them with all reuerence So far we are from that which some obiect vnto vs most falsly and most impudently as though we tooke vppon vs to prescribe to anie Church in anie place our examples to be followed like vnto those vnwise men who account wel of nothing but of that which they doo themselues And to the same effect a little before If now the reformed Churches of England being vnderpropped with the authoritie of Bishoppes and Archbishops do continue as this hath happened to that Church in our memorie that she hath had men of that calling not onely most notable martyrs of God but also excellent pastors and doctors Fruatur sane ista singulari dei benificentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her truly inioy this singular blessing of God which I wish may be perpetuall vnto her Furthermore it should seeme that Zanchius as moderate and learned a man as euer fauoured the pretended Elderships was appointed some 12 or 16. yeres since to draw a confâ—ssion of religion for the Churches of France others as Melanchthon had done the Augustan confession for Germanie Accordingly hee drew it and in the same speaking of Bishops he vseth these wordes Non improbamius patres c. Wee doo not disalow the fathers in that after a diuers waie of dispensing the word and gouerning the Church they multiplied diuerse orders of Ministers seeing it was lawfull for them so to do as it is vnto vs and seeing it appeareth that they did it for honest causes appertaining at that time to the order decencie and edification of the Church And in the next article Hac ratione c. By this reason vz. that the nurseries of dissentions and of schismes may be taken away wee thinke that these thinges which were ordained before the Councell of Nice concerning Archbishops nay as touching the foure Patriarches may be excused and defended When this booke was perused and this clause found in it then forsoth a deuise was had for the staying of it vnder pretence that now it was thought more meete that there should be a harmonie made of all the confessions of diuers churches But Zanchius himselfe maketh this the chiefe cause if I vnderstand him why his booke dyd mislike some of them for that hee had written as before is mentioned of Bishops For so hee sayth Magnus quidam vir c. A certaine great man meaning Beza as it is supposed did write vnto mee of this matter as followeth Your confession was read by mee and N. others with great delight It is written most learnedly and in a most exquisite methode and if you except that which you adde towards the end touching Archbishops and the Hierarchie mihi summopere placuit it pleased mee exceedingly Vpon this occasion as it seemeth Zanchius printed his said confession with certaine annotations In the which annotations he sheweth three reasons for his allowance of Archbishops Bishops The first is grounded vpon the practise of the primitiue church presently after the Apostles times the second is for that hee thought it his dutie in the draught of his said booke to haue regard to those reformed churches which retaine both Bishops Archbishops and the third because all the reformed Churches generally although they haue chaunged the names yet in effect they doe keepe the authoritie as where they haue superintendents and generall superintendents Nay saith he where these new base Latine names are not admitted Ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarij penes quos fere tota est authoritas yet there are in those places vsually certaine chiefemen that doe in a manner beare all the sway But I pray you be pleased that I may deliuer vnto you the maner of his setting down of his first reason and that in his owne words for they carry with them a notable condemnation of other mens great pride rashnes Cum haenc conscriberem fidei confessionem c. When I writ this confession of faith I writ all the thinges in it of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake the scriptures teaching men so to doe And my faith first of all and simply doth rely vpon the word of God then somewhat also vpon the common consent of the whole ancient Catholicke Church if the same bee not repugnant to the scriptures For I beleeue that what thinges were defined and receiued by the auncient Fathers assembled in the name of the Lord with a generall consent of them all and without any contradiction of the holy Scriptures the same surely although they be not of the same authoritie with holy Scriptures yet did they proceed from the holy Ghost Heereof it commeth to passe that those things which are of this nature neither would I neither dare I with a good conscience disallow them And what can be shewed more certainly out of histories out of the councels out of the writings of all the ancient fathers then that those orders of Ministers of the which we haue spoken haue bene ordained and receiued in the Church by the generall consent of all christian common-wealths And who then am I that should presume to reproue that which the whole Church hath approued This is true and religious humilitie Thus all graue and discreet godly men haue euerwritten Those that contemne all the learned Fathers that went before them doe open a windowe to their owne discredite by those that shall come after them That which this godly and great learned man ascribeth to the
holy Ghost and durst not with a safe conscience reprooue euerie sawcie Iacke with vs euerie ignoraunt dolt and euerie Bridewell rake-hell dare disdaine and condemne Tell them of Fathers and Councels they make but a mocke at it But as yet you know not the cause why I haue especially alleadged all these things out of Zanchius I will therefore now tell it you And it is this You haue heard how Beza and some others disliked of Zanchius confession and wherefore But now hee is come about and is grown to be fully of Zanchius iudgement if a man may beleeue him For wheras D. Sarauia had cited these places of Zanchius in the behalfe of Bishops and Archbishops M. Beza aunswered directly that neither he nor his brethren doe dissent therein from Zanchius à quo minimè certè dissentimus But I may not conceale this frō you that although Zanchius hath written so modestly of the callinges of Archbishops and Bishops as it hath beene shewed yet he rather fancied the new platform of Elderships which Beza omitteth not to put Sarauia in minde of when hauing yeelded to Zanchius his saide opinion of Bishops he addeth other places out of him for his allowance of the Eldership and then concludeth Si Zanchio assentiris qua de re contendimus If you agree with Zanchius where about contend wee Wherby I obserue into what a streight Beza is brought For notwithstanding any thing that hee hath written formerly against such Bishops Archbishops as professe the Gospell he can now bee content to reuoke it wholy so as they at Geneua may holde their Elderships He hath so farre ingaged his credit for that kind of gouernment as gladly he would preserue the reputation of it But he seeth I am perswaded it will not bee and that the equality they haue dreamed of tendeth to confusion therefore he beginneth to retire himself from that conceit as well as he may It is much his former proceedings considred that euer he could be brought to Zanchius moderation But yet hee commeth neerer vnto vs for although his Bishop of man found so small fauour with him before as that hee made him the roote of iniquitie and needs he must be plucked vp yet now he is much more fauorable vnto him if I vnderstande him and saith he calleth him the Bishop of man non simpliciter sed comparatè not simply but by way of comparison in respect he meaneth of his Bishop of God Now he acknowledgeth him to haue had place in the church euer since S. Marks time and that one was so chosen saith he certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet assuredly it neither can nor ought to be reprehended Nay hee affirmeth Iustis de causis fieri debuit That for iust causes it was necessarie Vt vnusquispiam e. presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That some one should be the Prelate ouer the presbyterie not for a day or an action as Cartwright saith but to remaine and continue allowing well of S. Ieromes reason why such a choise ought to bee made vz. In remedium schismatis for the remedy of schismes But one thing remaineth which passeth all the rest You shall see that for all the former stormes Beza could be very well content at the length if he might to be in effect an Archbishop Doctor Sarauia amongst diuers other proofes for the calling and authoritie of Bishops bringes an order out of the Apostles Canons so called because of their antiquitie First you shall see it and then also heare Maister Bezas iudgement for the matter of it The Bishoppes of euery nation ought to knowe who is the chiefe amongst them and to account him as it were their heade without whose allowance they ought to doe nothing of any moment but euery one those things onely which belong to his owne parish and the villages which are vnder it Neither let himselfe doe any thing without the knowledge of all For so there shall bee concord and God shall be glorified through our Lord in his holy spirit Thus far the Canon whereof Beza writeth in this sort There is here mention made of him that was the chiefe amongst his fellow Bishops who was afterward called the Archbishop And a little after speaking of the same Canon Quid aliud hic statuitur quam ordo ille quem in omnibus locis ecclesiis restitutum cupimus What els is here appointed than that order which wee desire should bee restored to the Churches in all places And is not the spirituall gouernement of Geneua as yet in her perfection Haue they rashly ouerthrown there such Offices of the Church as nowe they would gladly should be restored againe Those Churches that haue followed Bezas humor in the abolishing of their Bishops and Archbishops may they not iustly wish he had neuer beene borne It is an easie matter to ouerthrow but he and they all shall find it a most difficult thing to build vp againe Haue they pleaded so long for an aequalitie amongst all Ministers that now they can be content to be as it were the heades chiefe ouer the Bishops within the same countries Well the conclusion is this Either Beza writ not the Epistles mentioned to Duditius and Knox though hee hath set them out in his owne name or what hee writ in them against Bishops Archbishops he meant should bee onely extended against popish Bishops and Archbishops then Cartwright hath done him great iniurie in affirming that hee meant our Bishoppes or he is not the author of the treatise of the three sortes of Bishops albeit he calleth it Scriptum meum my discourse and saith as much in effect in his annotations vpon the Epistle to the Philippians or he supposeth in that treatise that there were popish Bishops and Archbishops before and at the time that the Councell of Nice was helde when in all the world there was neither popery nor popish Bishop or hee was ignoraunt that Field had translated the saide treatise into English and that it was published amongst the brethren here and held for currant doctrine or by his agreeing with Zanchius by his writing as hee doth to the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury by his allowing the choise of one Minister to haue a permanent office of primacie ouer the rest by his wishing the restitution of the orders mentioned in the Apostles Canons by these thinges and the rest specified being throughly considered or as I said hee hath now altered his opinion whatsoeuer hee hath written els where to the contrary or els you must take him as you find him For my part I will thinke the best that he hath been formerly abused very greatly by slaunderous reportes which caused him to write as he hath done But howsoeuer this course against Bishops hath been carried on hitherto amongst them God bee thanked for some amendment And lette vs take holde of that which they haue granted You may be