eyes of those which made them that they may sée and be ashamed and repent But you say if there be such offence in making ministers yet inferiours are not to meddle it is a sawcines in them it is publique authoritie that must refourme No deubt it is publique authoritie that must refourme But what then Are the ministers of Gods word when they publishe his will become sawcie Shall the great God whose messengers they are be dishonoured his church laid waste and his people destroyed because they must respect persons Doe not you know that God sendeth his seruauntes euen vnto high and low to reprooue them when they do amisse You shew your selfe to be proud and sawcie against God that yee will haue his worde giue place vnto mortall men Were not the most of the Prophetes inferiour persons and yet they reprooued openly the high Priestes when they did degenerate and spared not any of what degrée soeuer The Pope and his Bishops can chalenge no more then to doe what they luste and that without controlement of anye but them selues which affirme that the power to redresse thinges is onely in their hands We may not giue those titles vnto euill ministers that the Prophetes in the scriptures do And why Because we haue not the spirite of the Prophetes This is as deepe deuinitie as any that yee could dig out of the bottome of a Dunghill I pray yee what Spirite shal the Preachers of the Gospell be furnished with all if not with that holye Spirite of God which the Prophets spake by Is there an other holye Ghoste In deede the Prophetes had great and extraordinary giftes of the spirite to doe that which we cannot But doth it therefore follow that we may not reprooue sin as they did It is one principall part of the duetie of the Teachers where in they are to follow the steps of the Apostles and Prophets The offence is publike and open euerye where and yet men must be restrained frō speaking publikely against it But you shew diuers great hurtes that ensue by open reproouing this matter The ministry yee say is brought into contempt by this meanes and it were much better mens infirmities were couered then that should happen As though the true ministerie coulde be brought into contempt by reprouing that which is corrupt It shoulde rather bee considered that it shoulde bring them into contempt with god and all Godly men if they should not reprooue them For then they might séem to shake hands with them to alow their vngodlines not to care how this high calling be defiled by laying it vpō vile persons they might also be thought not to pity the soules of men do not you sée that if fools which are base beggerly and vnciuil and of lewd conuersation shoulde be made Iudges it woulde be the greatest disgrace to the office that might bee The hurt resteth not you shew in defacing the ministry but reacheth vnto those that made them In deed it is their discredite which made them And that is the cause why the true teachers are hunted and tossed about For if they preach against the insufficiencie of any of the ministery or against their lewde life which all see Then they post vp and carry newes My lord such and such preach against your Lordship I warrant yee those teachers shal haue as much a doe to defend them selues as to teach their people But this is that which doth marre all when those that be of honour are by any meanes brought into contempt For they doe countenaunce the Gospell and the ministry and were it not for them the Gospel should be little esteemed nor the ministers thereof Alasse is the glorye of the Gospel no greater nor the dignitie of the ministerie no more but that they must ebb and flowe with the worldly honour and glorye of some men How vnwise do yee take our Sauiour Christe to be that he layde his glory a side and tooke vppon him the shape of a Seruaunt Phil. 2.6 that he might bee a minister of the Gospell How vnskilfull was he in choosing such simple men to be his Apostles as hadde no glorye to countenaunce the matter Hee might haue come with greater pompe But he sayeth My kingdome is not of this worlde Iohn 18. verse 36. Saint Paule sayeth The weapons of our warfare are not carnall but mightye in God 2. Corinth 10. If that were a good reason which you make then were it a speciall matter that there shoulde be as great glorye and pomp in the ministerie as euer the Pope and his Cardinalles had For the same reason set them vp at the firste No no the dignitie and estimation of the ministerye doth consist in the power of Gods spirite in them 1. Corinth 2. verse 4. This spirite doth alwayes cause those ministers to be had in great reuerence in whom he speaketh although they be neuer so base in outwarde appearaunce as Paule was Contrarywise let a minister of the Gospell glister in Golde and sit so high in glory and power that his feet be aboue the heades of Emperours and Kinges yet neuerthelesse hee shall be vile and euen stincke in the nostrels of men beeing voyde of the power of the spirite which is the furniture of a right minister For God sayth I wil honour those that honour me and they that despise me shal be despised 1. Sam. 2. ver 30. And what sayth the Lord by the Prophet Malachy vnto the Priestes Chapi 2. verse 9 Doth he not tell them that because they departed out of the waye hee had made them despised and abiect vnto all the people Then yee see it is God that bringeth such as bee of great dignitie into contempt because they degenerate yee saye the people are vnquieted because they can not tell whom they maye beleeue It is a lamentable thing that they haue in these dayes beene kept in such blindnesse that they can not trie the Spirits 1. Iohn 4.1 Iohn 10. nor are not able to know the voyce of Christ or at the least can not see who walke after the worde of God and who doe not Philochrematos I graunt it is a readie way to destroye the Church where mens soules are famished Who goeth about any such matter God be thanked the worde was neuer more plentifully set foorth They need not famish for where they haue not a Preacher yet they haue the Scriptures read vnto them in their owne language they haue Prayers and Homelyes as good as anye can bee made There bee manye good Bookes they maye reade or heare them read but such as you that condemne reading are those that famish mens souls if any do Yee are vngodlie and vtter enimies to mens souls when ye wil lead them frō the Scriptures vnto your expositions as though they could profite by hearing and reading youres and not by the reading of the Byble Where ther be blinde guides and hirelings the people perish no man doth deny that you
goe about to put out thirtie or fortie in a shire and then to saie where shall we haue preachers is an odde kinde of question To fill vp the roomes so soone as they be voide with Taylers and seruingmen or such like so that the learned men in the Vniuersities not called foorth do hold stil their fellowships in Colledges the yong men therby constrained for want of maintainance depart from thence before they be halfe ripe some to teach schollers some into gentlemens houses manie to pop into the ministery before they bee méete to guide themselues and then to demaund where shall wee haue learned men is also verie absurd To the seconde I aunswere that if Bishops Deanes and all the fat ones of the Cleargie did not loue their owne bellyes more then the thinges which are of the Lorde Iesus and if they did not esteeme the pompe pleasures and richesse of the worlde more then mens soules there would be such sufficiencie of maintenaunce that if there were fiue Preachers where ther is but one yet none of them should be so bare as to liue with 20. pounde by the yeare We read Actes 4. that when the Church was in need such as had possessions sold them to relieue the bodies of the bretheren that wanted How much more then ought those which haue their thousandes to imploy and bestow the same to haue the soules of men fedde Mens soules do famish you saye if it be so it is because in manie places they haue not maintenaunce for a Preacher I praye yee which of the fedde men haue deminished their pompe their richesse and pleasures which neuer did penyworth of good in the Church to set vp faithfull Teachers What drop of zeale for Gods glory doth appear in manie of thē But if this seeme harde as it will to worldly minded mē yet why haue they cōsented that a number should do nothing but hunt after benefices prefermentes and to heap vp liuing vpon liuing so that one mā must haue the portions of fiue or six some which are past this haue put all their treasure in one bag will confesse this is abhominable but which of thē doth seek redres If the people be in so good case as you say thē ther needeth no redresse For you say they be wel are come frō popery I maruel to what they be come they say in deed that the pope is naught but try thē ye shal find that they are stuffed ful of popish and supersticious opinions which are contrary to the wholsom doctrine of the gospel The scriptures euery where doe describe true Christians to bee holye and pure and full of the knowledge of God And as for those that walke in darkenesse wallowing in all filthie vices the Lorde denounceth vengeaunce against them When the true and faithfull Preachers doe teach men that they can not be saued vnlesse they tourne from their euill wayes seeking after the true knowledge of God and walke woorthie of the same and that such as be supersticious such as be swearers such as bee couetous such as be drunkards and Adulterers such as be ignorant despisers of the knowledge of the will of God finally such as liue in anie abhominable vices are not true Christians by and by like warriers for the Deuils kingdom ye saie we would haue the people become Puritans A man can not so soone mislike grose sins but straightway O syr you like none but Puritans You iudge and condemne men Howe can you tell who haue faith Surely if this bee not to seduce to harden and strengthen men in their wickednesse I know not what is Might not all this bee spoken to the Prophetes of God in olde time by the false Prophetes which did flatter the wicked euen as such as you be doe now It woulde make a mans heart bleed to see in what case multitudes of people are for want of teaching and yet you say they be wel The greatest multitude by manye partes doe not vnderstande the Lordes prayer the ten Commaundementes or the Articles of the faith or the doctrine and vse of the Sacramentes in anye competent measure There be thousandes which bee men and women growen which if a man aske them howe they shall be saued they can not tell As for wickednesse in pride enuie hatred al sinns that can be named almost it doth ouerflowe yet you are not ashamed to say are they not christians do they not call vpon God at their ende This is the deuinitie of some of our great diuines at this day Let men liue as they lust in ignoraunce and all abhominations so they call at the last and say Lorde haue mercy vppon me we must iudge their estate as good as the best As though the Lorde had not sayde Yee shall crye and not be heard Prouerb 1. And as though such as know not the faith beeing brought vp in blindnesse coulde of a soudden euen at their pleasure pray in faith without doubting For the Scripture sheweth that he which doth doubt in his prayer shall obtayne nothing Iames. 1. Our sauiour willeth men to striue to enter in at the straight gate shewing that fewe shall finde it If a man maye follow his lustes and walke in the blindnesse of his heart all his life and then a little calling at the last would serue What hardnesse were in it When yee tell men God is mercifull all men sinne what shoulde yee make your selfe more holy then other Yee ouerthrow all the doctrine of regeneration and all the precepts which the Apostles doe giue for walking worthie the Gospell You make the good and the bad in one condition as though there were no profite to serue the Lord as he complaineth Malachy 3. But wherefore doe great men now a dayes take it so grieuously the anye difference of men should be made Surely I will tell yee the cause They would not haue their treason against the Church of Christ espied when they thrust vppon them wicked and vnlearned ministers For they woulde haue men taught and men vntaught men Godly and men wicked all in one account that it might not appeare howe they murther mens soules Nay yee like best as yee confesse of those that be ignoraunt And why Because they are quiet In deed you are least troubled with those which be moste ignoraunt for they can not espie your dealing Such as haue knowledge in Gods worde can saye what a wolfe is this he hath three benefices and setteth a Tailer in one a drunckard in an other And how he flaunts it He doth visite them once in a yeare to see that they doe him no wrong in his tithes Philochrem If I had authoritie I would punish yee sharply and make yee carrie a better tongue in your head For if this may be suffered we shall haue euerie man a controller shortly Yee are the vilest men that liue and indeed such as do most hurt of all others Yee are a pestilent generation
as do Princes verie great hurt doe accuse those to be euill subiectes which of all other are the most faithfull Did not Abner and other of King Saules Councellers take them selues to be his best subiects and yet who led him from God vnto his destruction but they by stirring him vp to persecute Dauid Did they not accuse Dauid to be a traitour yet who was so faithful and true harted vnto his Lord as he Wise men must not be carried away with a blast of wordes nor with some colour of matter which vngodly men neuer want against the good Philocrhematos I perceiue it is but in vaine to spende the time in talking with such as you which are obstinately wilfullie bent You will be singuler Orthodoxos Obstinacie and wilfulnes can not be but in an vngodly and naughtie matter For a man can not be too stedfast in the truth Let the cause be good and the more stiffe and constant the minde is so much the better If I haue vttered or defend anie falshood let me be conuicted and I will yeeld If I be not conuicted what reason is there that I shoulde be charged with wilfulnes or obstinacie If Iesus Christ and his Apostles be of my side what wickednes is it to say I would be singuler Philodox It were well if yee would all agree teach vs that be of the laiety by your good example for that ought to be in yee And how shal it be expected at our hands to liue in vnitie to do well when those are at discord and variaunce which should instruct and guid vs Can yee exhort vs vnto concorde and your selues at variance Orthodox You speak of that which was neuer seene in this world nor neuer shall For so long as God hath faithfull messengers so long will also the Deuill haue his vngodly instrumentes These can neuer agree the one part seruing god the other liuing viciously And I pray yee how or wherin wold yee haue them to agree Which part shall condescend vnto the other Which part shal yeeld Shall those that holde the truth giue ouer That is abhominable to bee spoken and shall neuer be Will those that are vngodlie yeelde submit them selues vnto the truth No their stomach will not let them though they be conuict in conscience Moreouer this is to be noted that such a man as is not sanctified but delighteth in worldly lustes cannot abide the puritie of the word which doth condemne him Herein the world is iniurious that they crie out for vnitie vnitie blaming alwaies that part which holdeth the truth because they woulde haue them yeelde vnto their affections seeing they cannot abide to forsake their vild lustes Againe a number of yee beeing ouercome of your carnall lustes are glad to make this pretence and excuse We cannot tell what to do The Preachers cannot agree they be all naught what shold we giue heede to follow any thing which they teach these be hellish and brutish speeches Yee must seeke out which hold the truth which call yee vnto true godlines and amendement of life and with them yee must be at vnity The true Preachers are not to exhort men to be at such an vnitie as you imagine But they must teach them to flie the fellowship of the wicked I woulde to God men woulde consider this and tourne vnto him and not like Giants fight against him Philodoxos I do not thinke that anie do fight against God You shoulde not vtter anie such speeche vnlesse yee did know it to be true a man can not fight against God vnlesse hee hate God and I dare not iudge so euill of anie man Orthodoxos You think none fight against God because whomsoeuer a mā fighteth against him he hateth and you dare not iudge so euil of anie man to be so fowlie giuen ouer as to hate God It is grose ignorance in ye which seemeth to be excellent modestie For if you had eies that could discern you should see how horriblie some men doe hate the Lorde God and desperatlie fight against him Moste true it is the wicked men are so blinded by a iust iudgment of God vpon them that they think they loue God or at least that they do not hate him But we maie not iudge according to the sence of flesh bloud but according to the sacred truth of holie scripture by which I wil make the matter plaine vnto yee The blessed Apostle Rom. 8. doth affirme that such as walke after the flesh shall dye He rendreth a reason which is that the wisdom of the flesh is enimity against God And whie is it enimitie against God or whie doth the holy ghost charge it to leaue hatred against him because saith the Apostle It is not subiect to the law of God neither in deede can bee Marke this well for it is euen as a thūderbolt wherby al the wicked are striken down they bear themselues in hand that they loue God they make open brags and vaunts that they be his friendes but you maie learn heere frō the mouth of the Lorde him selfe that whosoeuer are not Subiect to the obedience of his law they bee his enimies and doe hate him Then doth it follow that whosoeuer do fight against his word or anie parte thereof they are his enimies they doe hate him fight against him Then let vs come to the matter Is there anie reasonable man but will confesse that Gods worde doth commaund learned godlie ministers to teach and guid his people Doth not the scripture laie woes and curses vpō those that be contrarie Is it not his holie ordinance that euerie shepheard shall attend vpon the flock of which he hath taken the charge and ouersight Do not those then monstrouslie fight against God and hate him which in sermons in their bookes published abroad do with reasons drawne from the wisedome of the flesh defend non residentes double beneficed men the vnlearned ministery with sundrie abominations The dreadfull vengeance of God doth hang ouer the heads of such men vnlesse they repent in time They doe against their Conscience for they can not but know such things as be euill The loue of the world doth carrie thē vnto it God hath also commaunded that his messengers shall be well intertained that his Church maie be built Do they not then directly fight against him which deface molest them depriuing multitudes of people of the foode of theire soules This is yet a more shamelesse matter that euen such as be old turncoats it is to be feared readie to saie Masse again are great instrumentes Such beeing known athiests are not ashamed to step into the Pulpit to charge the Godlie faithfull messengers of the Lorde to be Atheists rebells traitors I know not what If the cause bee good let not such guiltie persons defend it take such as be not spotted Shall those stand as the champions in the Lords battell which haue imbraced this present worlde and seeke after gaine These fight for their bellie not for the Lord. Those whom the people calleth greedie Dogs could not be more greedie then these for they be neuer satisfied The Lord giue them repentance or else disburden his church of them Philedonos I am sorie there is anie such taske in my house If you will go to your chambers all things are readie the Night is well spent FINIS
other men may iudge but in my iudgement it is a very prophane and a very wicked saying Is there any God but one any faith but one any Church but one Is not the whole Churche in all places in the worlde Gods familie Hath he not giuen one booke of the holy sacred scriptures to teache and gouerne the same euery part therof Were not those mē principall Instruments of the Lord to expounde and open the mysteries of God vnto his church did they not teach declare the counsels of God onely out of his word Is our church then the Church of Christe and hath their doctrine nothing to do with it Philodoxos I know right well that their doctrine which they teach out of Gods word which is the doctrine of faith doth belong indifferently to the whole Church Because as you say there is but one Church and one faith But in some externall matters one Church may differ from an other And in that respect euery Church is not tied to the outwarde forme of the Church at Geneua in euery particular There be circumstaunces of persons times and places which maye make some variaunce Orthodoxos One Church maye differ from an other in some externall matter let that be graunted as I know not who doth deny it Is that a sufficient cause for men to saye what hath maister Caluine or maister Beza or others to doe with our Church Haue not the excellent seruaunts of God taught that point also by the Scriptures which you speak off that churches may vary in some externall matters How then can it be saide that our Church hath nothing to doe with their doctrine I doe not speake as though we were to depende vppon men further then they prooue their doctrine by the holy Scriptures But when God hath raised vp speciall instrumentes and made them lightes to his people it muste needes proceede from a vile minde to saye what haue they to doe with our Church Such mens fingers are to be looked vnto as those which are not to bee put in truste with the Spouse of Christ For this is out of all doubt that as those other are manifested vnto the worlde to be rare and speciall seruauntes of God for the seruice of his sonne and saluatiō of his people so these by demanding so disdainfully what they haue to do with our Church giue manifest cause of suspicion that they be none of Gods houshold For either they must prooue that those excellent men did not deale faithfully in Gods matters which they shall neuer be able to doe or else confesse themselues to be vntrusty Who is so foolish but that he can sée whē such as with the mighty power of Gods spirit haue spread the light of the Gospell and thrown downe the Kingdome of Antichrist are reiected or little set by that there is no faithful mind especially when it is by those which them selues doe hurt and no good to the furtheraunce of mens saluation Philochrematos Gentleman by your patience maye it please you to let me aunswere not that I thinke you vnable to confute such friuolous speech but because I am pricked and can holde no longer I woulde faine knowe who they are whome you meane which do hurt no good in our Church If you meane the cheefe of the cleargy God be thanked your slanderous tongue is not able to discredite them they are well knowne to be graue wise learned and Godly and therefore of all others do the most good and the least hurt in the Church If yee meane the Puritans or Precisians all wise men wil agrée with you for in déede it can not be shewed that they do any good but I am able to prooue that they doe much hurt for they be Scismatikes and make diuision in the Church a thing much to be abhorred of al godly mindes they are the cause that there be so many Papistes for what maketh them to be offended and to refuse to come to the Churche but this that we do not agrée among our selues but these are not those whom you meane Orthodoxos I sée you take it in great snuffe that I saide there are which doe hurte and no good in the Church You woulde knowe whome I meane But it must needes bee meant as you take it eyther of the cheefe of the Cleargie or else of those whome you tearme Puritans and Precisians For the first yee say they bee well knowne to bee graue wise learned and Godly I suppose by the chiefe of the Cleargie you meane Bishops Deanes and Archdeacons and Bishops Chaplaynes And so you come in the number your selfe beeing a Bishops Chaplaine I doe suppose that the greatest part of these are graue and learned and it were a verye lamentable thing that none of them should be Godly I doe verilye suppose that among these there be some which are not so drowned with couetousnesse and ambition but that they haue their speciall care for the aduauncement of Gods Gospell and the saluation of mens soules But will yee therefore cléere and iustifie all But as for the Puritanes and Precisians yee say they do no good and you can prooue they doe much hurt You doe also shew wherein they be Scismatikes and make diuision in the Church They giue offence to the Papistes No doubte these bee abominable vices and those that be giltie of them the woe and cursse of God doth hange ouer their heades But your bare affirmation maye not carrye away the matter you muste prooue those men to bee such whome you call Puritans Philochrematos It is a sore matter which yee put me vnto I praye yee what neede is there of anye further proofe when the thing is euident to all the worlde Who doth not see that there is a Scisme in our Church both among ministers and people Who doth not see who are the cause of it When a Church is established and there doth arise contention therein are those the Scismatikes which defende the state and would haue it quiet or those which rayse vp vnquietnesse Do the chiefe Prelates make the Scisme in our Church or the Puritanes It is well knowne that they labour to haue it in peace but these other are the cause of vnquietnesse Orthodoxos You make verye light of the matter as a thing so euident that there needeth no proofe And to make the euidencie appeare yée take this for your grounde that where a Church is established those which defend the state thereof to hold it in quiet canne not bee Scismatikes On the contrarye parte those which make any vnquietnesse to the state thereof can not but be Scismatikes If yee will haue no further consideration but so then surely maister Luther maister Caluine and others are iustly charged by the Papistes to be Scismatikes For there was a state established the Pope his Prelates were desirous to hold it in quiet The other part yee knowe did disquiet it Yet neuerthelesse euerie one which hath anie true
as are manifest and doe hurt in our Church had need to do nothing else for one whole day and take the longest in the year Your accusations against vs be stale when ye charge vs to haue conspired with the Papistes and to haue the properties of the Annabaptists Your own consciences do witnes that wee are farre from these sortes of men The Papists and Annabaptists knowe well enough that of all other we doe least serue their turne Wee loue the Papistes so well that we wish there were not a shread of their Kingdome left nor so much as one relique of theirs euer to bee seene among vs. The end of all our trauail is to builde vp the walles of Hierusalem and to set vp the throne of Iesus Christe our Heauenlie King in the middest thereof and to bring the people in subiection vnto him howe soeuer Sanballat and Tobiah doe accuse vs that wee meane to rebell You pray that we may he cut short and that yee may not feele anie further the effect of our seditious Doctrine It is the Doctrine of Iesus Christe and the effect of it which you feare is to cut downe worldlie pompe Couetousnesse and idlenesse in the ministerie You feare that if it take place that you must parte with two of youre Benefices Naie you feare that you shall get no higher there bee manie of yee which haue layde a Platfourme howe to come vnto wealthe and dignitie Yee fear that the great roomes will bee little woorth before youre turne come and that dothe cause you to frette and rage againste the Preachinge of the Gospell Yee deuise all the fleshlie reasons which yee can to maintaine and vpholde Corruptions Yee beate youre Braynes and spende youre Wittes to deface Gods Ordinaunces and why doe yee this forsoothe euen for the Churches sake for the peace of the Churche and for Obedience and good order Yea euen as muche as Iudas had a care for the Poore It is well seene that if there were not greate wealth and honoures for which yee contende yee woulde scarce open youre mouthe for suche matters as nowe yee defende as eagarlie as if it stood vppon your liues The Ministers of the Gospell must alwaies passe thorough troubles but the Lorde Iesus will looke vnto them Philochrematos There are none so couetous and ambitious as your selues And that maketh yee to grudge and repine at those which haue wealth and honour because yee can not come by it Yee are loath to bee inferiours your mindes be so proud and stately I know if a man will hearken to all your slaunders and false accusations you can hold him a whole day yea three dayes and let them be the longest in the yeare but tell but truth and then a lesse time wil serue well ynough As I sayd before if there were matter it shoulde not be couered Orthodoxos Yee say we conspire with the Papistes but your maner of dealing is so like theirs that a man would think ye were ioyned together in the defence of one cause For when Luther dealt against the pope by by they cried out that it was because he could not come to that preferment which he desired So play you against vs when we reprooue those forenamed vices in the Cleargie For yee say we doe it because we can not abide to be inferiours and because we can not come to dignitie and wealth this wicked surmise of yours hath no colour or shew of trueth It is well knowne that there be not a few which could as easily come to their Benefices as you if they woulde labour for them and that might attaine vnto great dignity if they woulde set their minde that way but they haue learned that such as bend them selues to seeke after liuings and promotions do not serue the Lorde Iesus but their own bellies If you could iustly charge men that they had sought and laboured for dignity and yet missed then were there some cause for ye to say so but seeing it is otherwise me thinketh if there were but a drop of common honesty in ye such speech could not be vttered Ye do also iump with the papists after this sort when the Seruaunts of God reprooued the pride of the Pope then what was the common voice but that if these men bee not looked vnto haue at Kings next So now reprooue Ambition and worldly pompe in the Cleargy and what followeth Let princes and Noble men take heede these men will haue a fling at them shortly but blessed be GOD it is well seene that the casting downe of the Pope is the exaltation of Princes For while he standeth like that prowde Senacharib King of Ashur euery Rabsaka yea euerie one of his Captaines will take himselfe to bee as good as King Ezechias Iesa 36. ver 9 But let this go You vrge me to speake of abuses and you say that if I speak but the trueth a short time will serue But I say hee that will declare the corruptions but of your spirituall Courtes hee maye hold himself occupied a good peece of a day and yet speake but trueth I know not where a man shoulde beginne or whome he shall finde to be the worst the Iudge himselfe or the Scribe the Proctors or the Summoners This is sure all of them regard nothing but Money All the whole Court is guided by one rule but that is a Golden rule The people maie not speake a worde for if they doe they bee Rebelles Rebelles and speake against the Queenes authoritie When as in deede the Queenes Lawes are broken and her Subiectes greatly abused Philochrematos Marke your doinges who will and hee shall finde this property in yee that all your drift is agaynste authoritie Nowe the spirituall Courtes come in great corruptions are in them If it be as you saye it is pitty they shoulde stande But it is well seene howe soeuer suche as you barke agaynste them that as they bee appoynted for correction of Vices so they doe muche good none repine at them but such as can not abide to bee punished for their disorders If some officer doe amisse at some time as all can not bee good what reason is it that yee should so lewdlie accuse the whole Courte you make the Iudges the Scribes the Proctors and Summoners all alike If I were an Archdeacon Officiall or Commissarie I would take the lawe against ye for a slaunder You say al is done for monie the Lawes are broken and the Queenes subiectes are abused I doubt not but if yee were put to your proofe yee woulde eate your wordes Orthodoxos He that will marke shall finde this quality in a number of yee that a man cannot so soone speake against corruptions and abuses in such as abuse their authority but straightway yee accuse him as one which can not abide to bee vnder anye gouernment because hee woulde not be corrected for his disorders You knowe well ynough that this is a shrewde accusation to bring men into
of their cause no it is the ignorance and blindnes of the vntaught multitude in which their might is reposed These night birds know right well that where the Sunne shineth ther is small place for thē Let the people be taught to know wholsome doctrine and they will neuer abide the rotten drugges of these Romish Apothecaries Let them see the light and be taught out of the blessed worde that it is damnation to those that rebell againste their Prince yea though it be but a disloyall minde no outward thing practized Let them feele what blessing is come vnto them by a Christian Mother in Israel a nurse of Gods Churche and that they are deepely bound not onely vppon their knees to powre out plentifull prayers vnto God for her but also that it is their duety to aduenture their liues for her defence and you shall haue them farre from giuing eare vnto traiterous persuasions of Iesuites and seminary Priestes Beholde for this cause how those that are known fauourers of the Romish Religion do now bestirre them to throwe downe the Preachers by procuring matters of complaint against them vnto the byshoppes If this dishonour be not done vnto Christ which I haue mentioned this iniurye to his poore Churche and daunger to our soueraigne Queene by heartning and strengthning the handes of her enimies let this my doing bee counted sedicious as I am out of doubt some will not sticke very malitiously to terme it But if it bee as I haue sayde and as many thousandes with griefe doe beholde and can witnesse by whome let me be tried and accounted shamelesse if I lye then I craue that I may not bee blamed for speaking in so waighty causes but euen a little of those things which all the Seruauntes of God ought to cry out of But to what purpose or wher shall there be redresse fought for O ye Byshops euen in this repent repent repent in time that GOD may haue mercye vppon yee Will yee bee offended with him that shall giue ye wholesome counsell or will yee say that yee are wrongfully charged good counsel ye wil say is neuer to be reiected then may it easily be prooued that ye stand in neede of it To let other thinges passe ought not the ministers of the Gospell to bee paterns and examples vnto the flock both in wholsom doctrine and godly conuersation ought they not to be the lights of the worlde and the salt of the earth to season the hearts of the people with spirituall graces to shine vnto them as starres that they may see the paths of life ought they not to feed the lords flock with the bread of life to lead thē into the green pastures and vnto the streams of liuing waters ought they not to seeke vp that which goeth astray to heale that which is diseased and to carry the tender Lambes in their bosom are your ministers with whō ye haue filled the church such or will yee seeke for excuses to make your fault light surely if ye do not repent ye cannot bee saued God doth not respect the personnes of men Wil ye repent at the last and leaue the thing vnrefourmed when ye dye what repentaunce will that be will ye make your prayers vnto God and will he heare them your garmentes being ful of bloud euen the bloud of many soules that perish for want of foode yee would haue those that be ignoraunt and wallowe in their sinnes to be counted Christians that it might not be knowne that the want of teaching destroyeth souls But the word of the Lorde will bee too stronge for ye which teacheth manifestly the necessity thereof Are yee ashamed to bee reprooued by your inferiours when your sinne is manifest It is a shame to continue but no shame at all for a man to amend his fault Do ye count it a discredite to yeelde any thing at all vnto those which are your inferiours haue also their infirmities count it no discredit to relent yeelde vnto the word of God which is free frō all impurity Looke not vppon the offences of any that reprooue yee neither bee delighted to heare slanderous things of them For their sinnes shall be no helpe at all to couer yours before God howsoeuer ye may make them some pretence of your doinges before men The Lorde God of his mercy open your eyes and take pity of his desolate people Amen A Dialogue concerning the strife of our Church The Speakers Orthodoxos a Diuine Philodoxos a Lawyer Philochrematos a Byshops Chaplaine Philedonos an Inne-holder Philedonos GEntlemen ye bee all heartilie welcome I pray you be as merrie as though your cheere were greater If we had better ye shoulde haue better but I hope ye will bee content with such as God sendeth Philochrematos Our cheere doth content vs very well mine hoste we do thanke ye for it Philedonos I could teem it were better but surely In-keeping is cold in sūdry places ouer it hath bin that causeth vs to make slender prouision Philoch How shold that be ther be as many trauellers as euer there were Philedonos Oh sir I graunt ye but our chiefe gaine hereabout doth not stande in that I haue knowne when a dozen or sixteene Gentlemen and wealthie yeomen haue met together and made merrie foure or fiue daies or a weeke at cards or Bowls as the time did serue Nowe all good fellowship is laide aside the worlde is waxen stark nought Philochrematos In deede that was a good helpe to Inne-holders and I think it be much left in manie places men waxe more couetous worldlie they haue not the care they had to maintain loue friendship Philedonos I cannot tell whether they bee more couetous but there be so manie new-fangled Preachers it is greate pittie that they be suffered they marre all for they destroie all good house-keeping Philocrematos It is verie true I haue knowne as much meat spent in one house at a Christmas as is nowe spente in three a lamentable thing the poore do rue it Philedonos They keep small hospitalitie themselues and not content with that they preach and crie out against it in other men I am vnlearned but yet I think a preacher shold keepe good hospitality and commend it in others Philocrematos Naie ye say true for the apostle willeth them to be harberouse 1. Tim. 3. Orthodoxos Ye doe not well to soothe and vpholde mine hoste in his euill speeches for he doth shewe him selfe to be a verie grosse and carnall man he is al for the lusts pleasures of the flesh voide of the true knowledge of God not hauing anie taste of spiritual things one of those which as the Scripture saith make their bellie their God Philodoxos Yee mistake mine hoste ye do him great wrong to giue such seuere and sharpe sentence against him I obserued and weied all his speeches so farre as I can conceiue he vttered nothing worthie rebuke hee complaineth and I warrant
yée not without cause the Inholders haue smal resort the good houskéeping is decayed men be new-fangled and ouer precise do ye not think they are to be blamed as those which do more hurt then good I suppose ye are not of that minde but that ye doe allow Innekéeping to be a lawful and honest vocation then ye must also allow them to seek such gaine as that they may liue They paie great hous-rent bedding other furniture is verie costly In a worde they buy all things deare How shall they be able to keepe open there doores if it be not lawful for men to meet togeather to spende their time in honest recreation It doth nourish friendship I am bolde to speake in defence of mine Host If he had any worse meaning I am deceiued Orthodox I do not thinke that his meaning was worse then yours neither doth that colour of words which you goe about to colour it with all hide the nakednesse thereof so farre off is it from proouing his meaning or yours to bee good hauing scarce a shew of reason Philodoxos If there bee scarce a shew of reason in my spéech you may the more easely confute it But it wil be harder for you to excuse your vncharitable seuere damning of men then for me to mainteine my saying Orthodox Because I said mine Host is a carnal man without the knowledge of God one that is all for the lustes and pleasures of the fleshe one of those which make their belly their God Yee say I do vncharitably damn men Ye did not heare mee pronounce a finall sentence vppon him But if he continue in the case he is now in there is no doubt Let his owne wordes giue euidence He said the worlde is waxed starke nought because men do not meet togeather to drinck and playe as they were wont The Prophet saith Wo be vnto those which call good euill Isay 5.5 and euill good The Lorde condemneth drunkennesse and gluttonie Idlenesse mispending the time vaine speeches railing fretting quarrelling swearing coueting other mens goods vndoing and beggering Wife and Children by spending their substance all these thinges are rife and ouerflow among those which do méet togeather at play When the Lorde saith these things be euill and mine Host saith the worlde is naught for learning them Is it not plaine that he is a carnal man and knoweth not God You colour it and saye Inholders sit at a great rent and paie dear for all thinges and they must liue If you did know or consider how cursed a thing it is to gather gooddes by such meanes you woulde confesse it were a thousande folde better for to begge He saith the Preachers which cry out against such things be new-fangled is he not thereby apparantlie knowne to be a belly God You would faine helpe him and yee saye if men be new fangled and ouer precise are they not to be blamed Yes no doubt But you must shew that it is to bee new-fangled and ouer precise for to publishe the holy worde of God against such filthie vices Yee say all of yee that good house keping doth decay and the poore they rue it The house kéeping which you mean is that confused ryot where there is aboundaunce of meate and drinke spent euen as well as if it were cast vnto the Dogs Some rich man doth keepe open house for twelue dayes there gather all the idle vnthriftes euen the scum dregs of the people There is such reuill night and day that if a man that hath a godly mind come in hee doth thinke he commeth into a little hell The good creatures of God are wasted vpon most filthie personnes Some man doth loose so much at Cardes that his wife and his children do fare hardly a moneth after The poore may rue that there is more cast away in one daye then woulde serue them a whole weeke The Preachers they keepe not Hospitalitie saith mine Host because they do not follow this order and because sundry haue not the wealth to do it And thus mine Host and those which be iumpe of his religion doe cry out stil to haue the paunch filled If they maye haue one which will make them good cheere though hee neuer minister vnto them any spirituall food yet they are aboundantly satisfied contented But if he bring the foode of the soule neuer so plentifully vnto them and not able to doe the other they make no reckoning thereof Which doth most plainely shewe that they are such as Christe spake vnto Iohn 6. which sought him because he had fedde their bellies And as for the friendship which is gotten and nourished by meeting at play It is small friendship when they fall to it by the eares If they doe agree yet the loue and friendship which is tyed togeather with such cordes is but in the fleshe and not that holye and spirituall loue which God requireth of Christians Philodoxos I did demaunde indeede if they bee not to bee blamed which are new fangled and ouer precise as those which doe more hurt then good I woulde it were not so easie to prooue as it is that they doe more hurt then good by beeing not onely ouer precize and new fangled but rashe and vndiscreet yea if yee will vngodly And why Because they preach against such filthie vices and publishe the holy worde of God No Sir that is good Yee maye not put me to prooue them therefore to be in fault No man wil saye they do hurt thereby But this is vndiscreet and worthy blame that while they make sharpe inuectiues against the abuses they vtterly cōdemn the things thēselues which are indifferent and lawfull Because some when they play doe fret and sweare they will alowe no man to doe it Some doe for couetousnesse reprooue those Others doe it to passe away the time in honest recreation not for anye hurt Why shoulde they be blamed now while they thus condemne the thinges them selues and stay not in reproouing the abuses it causeth questions and contentions and breach of charitie among the people This is a sore wound in a common wealth Where the subiects are to be kept in vnitie one with an other Orthodoxos The Iewes tooke vp stones to stone our sauiour Christ and when hee aunswered and saide Many good workes haue I shewed among ye frō my father Iohn 10. for which of thē doe ye stone me They had their excuse ready For thy good workes we stone thee not but for thy blasphemy that thou being a man makest thy selfe God Such is the excuse and pretence which you and others make against the Preachers of the Gospell let them preach the worde in Gods name that is good Let them also beate downe vice wee can not blame them therfore But we blame them that they deale rashlye in condemning thinges lawfull Well let it be graunted that to play at cardes and dice is a thing of it selfe indifferent and lawfull Yet it must before