haue had communion with vs but hee seeing himselfe to haue resistance heare after this hee vvent to Leyden and creept into that Church and so made of them a bridge to git in vnto vs. 4. The Samaritanes in their corrupt estat fathered themselues vpon the ancient Patriarches of the Church Iohn 4. 12. 20. and contended with the true Church as hauing the trueth with them So likewise these account their mixed estat to be the true vvay of God and condemne vs for vvholly separating from the false Church and contend vvith vs for it 5. Although these Samaritanes vvere thus corrupt in their estat yet had they attained vnto the chiefe pointes of faith concerning the Messias as may appeare by the speech of the Woman Iohn 4. 25. vvhich vvas one not stricke in life vers 18. conuersation I say if shee vvhich vvas but a Woman could say so much what may wee thinke was amongst the other Samaritanes and also wee may see how redily they receiued Christ as vers 39. 42. showeth and yet for all those points of Doctrine which they had receiued notwithstanding they were condemned by our Sauiour Christ Iohn 4. 22. as worshipping they knew not what which teacheth vs how to judge and esteeme of such mixed religions And now these Couenantmakers allthough they agree with vs in the chiefe pointes of faith yet seeing they continue in their corrupt estat being vnseparated from the false Church wee are taught of Christ how to esteeme of them and so leaue them to be the successors of the Samaritanes and their right heires Now this is the Couenant which Mr. S. maintaineth and for the which hee so bestored himselfe when it was condemned and doth not hee lay afar ground to keepe men in the way of desemblation and so to remaine in the false Church by the maintaining of this Couenant yee to be a snare to such as haue left them if once they be possessed with this errour and let vs take himselfe for an example for although hee had left the Church of England both as it was a nationall Church and also the Parishes holding both to be false and being come so far reason should haue taught him neuer to haue to doe with such a Samaritanesh people againe in Church communion seeing they remain◅ as they did vnseparated yet since hee was cast out from vs hee went and had communion with them and baptized his child with them also and vvhy went hee not rather to the assemblies seeing that that is their most proper Church estat they being yet vnseparated and for that their priuat meetings it is but a schisme in Babell in that their doing they make a breach in both estats both in their antichristian estat and in their pretended seruing of the Lord 2. Kings 17. 33. 34. as the Holy Ghost testifieth of their predecessor And further I say to him concerning ◅is clamours who of our Church hath tourned their backe vpon vs excepte those which hee is the cause of about these troubles in question vvhich hee through much labouring and others with him hath inticed but if hee meaneth those of the Church of Leyden which hath declined or apostated is it not more probabell or rather to plane that they haue taken their ground from Mr. Ro. their Pastour which hath opened so many pathe wayes for them first in setting out a book for priuat communion vvith the members of the false Church 2. in the maintining of hearing in the assemblies to be no communion 3. in the maintaining of this Samaritanesh Couenant 4. in that booke called Apologie hee doth not only vvith smoth vvords darken the trueth vvhich formarly hee maintained But also hee saith plainly speaking of the Church of England in the 58. page and hee speaketh it in the name of the Church of whom hee is Pastor that their faith doth not consist in the cōdemning of others wiping their names out of the bead roull of Churches And a little after hee saith neither requier vvee of any ours in the confession of their faith that they either renounce or in one vvord contest vvith the Church of England in this it appeareth that hee is ashamed and runeth from separation and of this his alteration hath the aduersaries of the trueth taken nottise of long before this last book came out so as I. P. saith speaking of his book called the justification of separation Which hee sett out in the defence of the trueth it being a good vvorke yet thus hee speaketh of Mr. Rob. concerning it that hee openly pluckes out some of the bowells therof vvith his owne hands and now seeing this is so why doth this man indeuour to lay the fault vpon vs which withstand these errours and therfore wee are of him and them euill spoken of but as it is vsually seen that such as run from their masters do speake euill of them so such as decline do speake euill of them that oppose them therfore lett none merueill that wee are euill spoken of by Mr. S. and by those that assist him for it hath bin thus allwayes with the Lords people in former times yea euen the Apostells of our Lord Jesus hath thus bin dealth withall and now to these opposites I speak wheras one of them twoo hertofor hath spoken to this effect that if the Couenant could be desproued that then they ought to acknowledge their euill in the things for the vvhich they were cast out and although but one of them speake it yet seing hee speak the trueth and as it ought to be therfor I wish them both to consider it and for vs if the Lord giue repentances vnto them wee shall be glad and hould our armes open to receiue them but alas vvhat hope is their of it seeing this man hath so many times imitated the practise of Absolom vvhich vvent in to his fathers concubins that so all should haue no hope of reconciliation between them so the third time hath hee printed his contention to the world as if hee did meane to continue an adversary and therfore by these hee bideth battell but if his cause were better then it is yet great is the euill hee doth therin in causing the name of the Lord to be scandelled Another pathe way which hee maketh for libertines is in the maintaining of his refusing to answer which is before spoken of by vvhich president of his wee see the euill effect that hath followed for suerly by his example the lo◅se ones of the Church and such as are corrupted begin to oppose that diligent watch as ought to be keept in the Lords house and with his example and his bussie writing and printing and priuate corrupting of mens minds labouring to corrupt all that hee thinketh hee can worke vpon as by experiance wee haue seene and in deed not keeping to the things as they are as I haue showed before Therefore that his sin in this point may the better appeare I
yet for all this did this man continue in his vntrue speaking a long time after this saying that they vvere the most part separated and vvhen hee vvas asked vvhy hee did not then excepte against Mr. Iacobe vvhen hee appealled to him for vvitnesse and being observed that your silence vvas a consent as in such causes it is offtentimes to the vvhich hee ansvvered that it did not follovv that because hee ansvvered not that therfore it vvas so and yet behold besides M. Iacobes testimony vvee sence haue other vvitnesse of 〈◊〉 men vvhich vvas at the Couenant making that none of them 〈◊〉 separated and this is vnder ther ovvne hands ratified and in one oâ—… their testimonies vvhich vvas don by their eldere hee is blamed 〈◊〉 as follovveth vvhosoeuer shall say that they vvere separated may vvel take shame vnto themselues yea though it should bee M. S. himselfe and vnto this vvriting is the hands of Three more vvhich testifye that all of them vvent to hearing in the Church of England after the Couenant making to ther knovvledge and novv seing that these things are so in the vvhich this man hath gone beyond himselfe in the speciall ground from vvhence all these our troubles did arise hovv should hee feare himselfe even in his errour and to take heed hovv hee goeth one in his procedings least the Lord leaue him vnto hardnes of harte and to blindnes of eyes as a just recompence for striuen against the truth or to lay a snar in Mizpach to insnare the soules of men or to doe as Balaam did which taught Balac to put a stumbling blocke before the Children of Israell which this man hath done and doth in the maintaining of that Samaritanesh Couenant as through the helpe of the Lord I shall proue in due time And none to retourne to Mr. S. Preface againe hee calleth vs vnmercyfull spirits vvho vnder pretence of godly zeale and hatred against sinne vngodly massacre the true and living members of Christ body First I answer that if I should follow him in all his clamours and insinuations also his taking vp of mens weaknesse let fall in reasoning and dispute which hee vseth to hide his ovvne faultes and transgressions then I say vvee might haue vvorke enough to doe and increase vnprofitable writtings But let him knovv that all men of vvisdome vvill thinke it apoâ—…re shifte to helpe himselfe with mens sinnes or infirmityes to couer his ovvne sinnes so to auoide the maine matter in difference therfore fit it is seing hee would not rest in his errour in peace that novv hee should Both justifie his errour and his vnrestynes in his errour which vvas the cause of his casting out or else to fall vnder it and to retourne with repentance but seing hee hath vvritten vntruâ—… ths I shall make a briefe ansvver vnto them But first vvher hee saith vvee are furious vnmercifull vvith other reprochfull termes before named hee should haue stayed himselfe in these things vntill such time as hee had made good his cause in question for vvho is not just in ther ovvne cause in their conceite which be in contention as hee is and therfore the euill of his reproches and all the hinderances vnto the truth which hee speaketh of must lye vpon himselfe except hee could make his errour truth and his vnrestynes with seeking to seâ—… to be good and lavvful which I knovv is more then hee is abell to doe And for his quoting of Scriptures hovv largly and fitly might they all be applyed vpon himselfe as 1. Thess. 4. 1. might be applyed to him to show his busines before hee came to vs and vvhill hee vvas vvith vs and since hee vvas cast out being a raiser vp of contention so breaking those Scriptures Galat. â—… 15. and 1. Cor. 11. 16. also for Rom. 16. 17. Hovv euidently doth that Scripture reproue his factious action for the vvhich hee vvas cast out But I leaue the manifesting of it vnto his propre place And for the other whom hee saith are thrust out of the Church vvhich vvitnesse for them I hope all men of vnderstanding may consider that men that haue euill causes for the most part they lack not some partaker to assist them And for them vvere they not as forvvard as any to cast out these tvvo opposites yea more forvvard then many and I am suer more forward then my selfe and vvhat hath chaÌ„ged theire mindes they say the meeting of the brethren aftervvards to be spoken of vvhich I may say is lese then affige leaue to couer there shame and therefore may it not bee well feared that respects haue stollen awaye ther affectioÌ„ seing theire reason of change is of so little vvaight and for this I can show reasons but at this time I spare because that some although justly touched yet vvould bee to much moued and although I could say more yet I stay here knovving that such things doth but tend to vaine â—…anglinge But this man hath administred the cause to speake this And wheras hee saith vvee reject the vvord of God all vvholsome counsell for our amendement countrary to the very letter of the 38. article and why did hee not shevv vvherin also was it not because hee might doubt of the truth of his affirmation and suer if it be layd vpon him for an vntruth I see 〈◊〉 hovv hee can shifte it for our article speaketh of the communion that all Churches haue for counsell and helpe in all needfull things in the common faith and this did wee practise in that our letter to the Church at London in the vvhich this man did so much oppose vs and hath made all this troubell and also vvee practise that article as wee haue just occasion But doth hee meane wee breake this article because wee doe not at his pleasure his will or the willes of such as hâ—… stoureth vp to bring other Churches to bee judges whether hee bee rightly cast out or not if all that are cast out should haue that righte as I know not why hee should haue more right then others then tâ—… Churchs should haue worke enough to doe to looke to others businesses to neglect their owne But wee must learne to put a differance betweene that which concearneth the common faith and the proper power that euery seuerall Church hath in it selfe as for example in Reu. 2. and 3. chap. euery particular Church hath theire commandation or reprofe as they deserved and as the Church of Pergamus was reproued for suffering of such as taught the Doctrine of Balaam so needed they not to aske another church whether they should restraine them that so taught or vvhether they should cast them out if they vvould not be restrained or vvhen they had cast out anie to call for other Churches to knovv vvhether they had done vvel or not in so doing especially to such Churches as vvere corrupted vvith the same errour and hear obserue that vvhen vvee did
ansvver of his postscript Hee saith that they were cast out without knowledge of sinnes also that they protested solemnly they had neither don the thing so suspected nor intended it Ansvver I still except against his word suspected for the thing was plainly layd vpon them for although at the first it was caried vvith aâ—…low and safte vvords saying that it vvas a thing of an euill nott and that they ought to answer euen to apparences of euill in such publique matters of the Church as this was and seing they did run vnto such an action they ought to answer and to that end vvas Iosua 22. and 1. Thes. 5. 22. brought the one shewing that Christians ought to keepe themselues from apparances of euill the other Scripture shewing that if a Christian doth any thing that seemeth contrary to the Law of God they ought to cleare themselues and to this was added Actes 11. whâ—… Petter cleared himselfe but all this could not persuad them to ansvver and to debat the matter so when they still refused their sinne was condemned by Ephes. 4. 3. 4. and 1. Cor. 3. 3. and other Scriptures and by these Scriptures was their factious or vnlawfull meeting condemned as their refusall too ansvver vvas condemned as befor is shewed so then sinne was knowne before they vvere cast out but what is that vvhich hee protested they had neither done nor intended it befor I haue shewed hovv they opposed the Church in the trueth in that their vnlavvfull meeting to the vvhich I ad this they that maintaine an errour doe sinne Reu. 2. 14. they that seduce to errour doth sinne vers 20. they that sequester apart of the church against the church the church maintaining the trueth doth sinne Rom. 1â—… 17. and all this did they in that meeting therfore when wee knew of their meeting to conferme that letter vvee knew that all this vvas by them committed but it may be hee will excepte and say that the thing vvas not so layd downe to them at the first as now I doe that is true but were not they the cause of that that it was not seing they refused to debat the matter or to answer as I haue shewed therefore the sinne was condemned in the generalls as I shewed before But hovv shall wee vnderstand his protestation concerning his intendement it may bee hee did not intend any euill why because hee minded it to be good for the trueth but wee meddle not with his intendement but with his action Petter though hee intended good when hee parsuaded the Lord Iesus not to suffer at Ierusalem But therin hee was an instrument of Satan to ouerthrow the saluation of all Gods electe if Satan could haue preuailed by him and as Petter good intend could not beare him out seeing his deed was euill yea although it was his ignorance so will not his good intend helpe him seing his deed vvas euill Hee goeth one vvith many clamours after his manner to the which I haue giuen some ansvver before But where hee chargeth vs vvith partiallity for spearing of scandallous euills least our euill combination should be weakned discouered or broken Answer if all that â—…ich this man saith were true it might make vs appeare euill in the eyes of men to the which end hee settes it out that hee might coller his owne euills but wee must minde it to be the fruites of his loue and his loue token thus to do for hee hath told vs in the beginning of his booke that therefore hee hath sett out Mr. Answorths sermon But would hee haue done Mr. Answorth that injury but vpon this occasion hee might also power out his malice against vs but to the thing in hand I considered in my selfe what hee did meane by those scandalous euills but I could not minde what hee aimed at so I asked M. S. vvhat hee did meane by these scandallous sinnes hee speake of in his booke but hee shifted mee of and would not tell mee now what dealing is this that a man vvill sett out to the world such reproches and refuse to manifest them to one that might vse meanes to helpe them if their bee any but let honnest men judge of this his doings Hee saith further that irregular proceedings haue made our brethren in all places to hange downe their heads and hee saith wee haue bin plainly certified from sundry churches Ansvver that wee haue bin so certified from sundry churches I know no such thing But it is his manner if on man let a word fall hee will apply it to all as see the answer to his Postscript now true it is that one Church which receiued him to them by his Samaritanesh Couenant they in deed do take his part or else they must condemne themselues but for any more I knovv not any But if it were so it would not make him cleare in his matter therfore let him leaue these clamours and stand to the cause in differance that â—…o hee may either approue himselfe or fall vnder it And wheras hee saith now for these and the like offences diuers that were of vs turn the backe vpon vs and betake themselues to liue at large as if now the dore of indifferency or libertinisme were sett open that it matters not whome they heare or wher they walke THE COVENANT EXAMINED ANSWER BUt can hee spy the liuing at large of diuers that haue receiued the â—…rueth which novv haue declined and can hee finde no other occasion vvhich they take for their stumbling but those things which hee speaketh of for those vvhich hee hath set down I refere the reader to the answer giuen but I can nam some friend of his who hath ratheâ—… opened the dore of indifferances wherby many hath taken occasion to decline But first I say to him is not hee the man himselfe which hath made a pathe way for such libertins in the maintaining of that Coue nant of desemblation in the which hee vvould bring light and darknes in to one habitation in that hee vvould make vs beleeue that antichristians neuer leauing their antichristian estat are sit matter for to make a true Couenant with God and that they can make a true Couenant and so become visible Christians not only so but also daily practise their pretended Couenant and keepe their communion in their antichristian assemblies vvhose in deed they are if these be not the right Samaritanes in their practise then let the indifferant judge But hovv contrary is this vnto the Scriptures Matth. 3. 6. 2. Cor. 6. 14. 17. 18. Reâ—… 18. 4. which showeth vnto vs that God doth receiue vs into Communion vpon this condition to come out and to separat from the false vvayes of the vvorld and least our corrupt flesh should put differant and so take an occasion to continue in any one false vvay more then another therefore saith the Holy Ghost and touch no vncleane thing and I will receiue you and I vvill be a father
vnto you and yee shall be my sones and daughters saith the Lord almighty If the Lord hath made this condition as it is cleare hee hath who should not feare to plead the contrary or so to practise moreouer did not they that were baptized confesse their sinnes Matth. 3. 6. And vvas not baptisme to them in the true Church are newing of their Couenant in Christ then come and they that were not in the true Church before did they not enter into a Couenant with God in Christ vvhen they were baptized and was it not don vnto all vpon the confession of their sinnes how comes it to passe then that these men before named beeing vnseparated and vvalking in their publique sinnes should be pleaded for to be sufficient Couenant makers that they haue made a true Couenant with God let not any thinke that this distinction will helpe them in this cause to say that they walke in the trueth so far as they see or vnderstand suerly this is a very crooked and a vneuen measur to measure our obedience vnto our creatour But should the commandements of the blessed God bee limited and bounded vnto the blind vnderstanding of sinfull man or as if the spirit of God had not lefte sufficient derection vnto vs either hovv far or with whome to walke in such publique matters of religion in the which these antichristian idolaters haue lesse to say for themselues then those their predecessors which were before them Exodus 32. which when they made the calfe they had not the Lords order or direction for the Lords â—…ublique worship as yet giuen vnto them and therefor they ran into that greuious sin Moyses staying long away as verse the 1. showeth But the Lord hath not only giuen plaine order and rulles in his vvord to these men but also hath raised many faithfull witnesses both by voice and also by bookes to shovv the wayes of God and to declare their sinne vvhich they neglect also reject but to come too this man vvho prepareth this pathe way in the maintaining of this Couenant hovv easie is it for Sattan to preuaile with any being possessed vvith this errour whether they be in the false Church then their to vvalke in this way of dessemblation and thinke to blesse themselues as Naaman did 2. Kings 5. 17. with two mules load of earth thinking to serue the Lord in the land of Sirian and that hee needed not to trouble himselfe to go to Ierusalem but this being contrary to the commandemeÌ„t of God Deut. 12. 13. 14. and the Prophet seeing it and also his soddan and confused motions vvhich allthough hee professed not to sacrifices to any other God saue only to the Lord. But yet hee proposed and professed to bow down in the house of Rimmon his masters God and for that hee vvould aske pardon befor hee did it now I say the Prophet seeing his sodden and confused motion bid him go in peace that is so much as say far yee well as if the Prophet saw it not fit to resolue his doubtes nor to direct him to go to Ierusalem where the true place of vvorship vvas and are not these Couenantmakers much like vnto him who in their confused motions or considerations thinke they need not to leaue or forsake their antichristian estat But their to remaine thinke to blesse themselues by a sequestered meeting from their brethren the antichristians on part of the day and to communicat with them the other part of the day but do these men thinke that by sequestering themselues from their brethren to change their coÌ„dition Oh no for as the Prophet showeth Haggi 2. 14. that if a polluted person touch any hollowed thing he is so far from making himselfe cleane therby that hee maketh the holy thing vncleane and so not acceptable whervpon it vvill follovv that their priuat gathering together and taking to themselues the ordinances of God is so far from sanctifying of them that they polut the holy things of God whilles they staÌ„d in 〈◊〉 antichristian estat or doe they thinke they are the nearer to the Lord by vsing of vvords to make a Couenant they remaining in their antichristian estat no allthough they do it with great zeale and oath yet it helpeth them not as the Prophet saith Hosea 10. 4. They haue spoken vvords swering falsly in making a Couenant neither lett them thinke that it is a lowable for them to sett vp a ministery in that estat for as it was sayd vnto their predecessor Esra 4. 3. it is not for you but for vs to build the house vnto our God and if the Lord did so detest the old Babylon vvhich was but the tipe of this antichristian Babylon that their should not be a ston taken Ierem. 51. 26. neither for corner nor for foundation vvho should not be afeard to mannag the stones of this spirituall Babylone to bee â—…it matter for the Lords house But hovv doe these men blesse themselues some thing like vnto Michah Iudges 17. 13. who being in his idolatry sayd I knovv that the Lord will be good vnto mee seeing I haue a Leuit to my preist So these men standing in their antichristian estat thinke themselues vvell now seeing they haue imitated the order of the church of God in their priuat meetings But that it may the better appeare that these are the right successors of the Samaritanes I vvil compare them together First the Samaritanes they toke it one them to serue the Lord 2. Kings 17. 33. But they serued their idoles also So these Couenantmakers they toke it on or pretended to serue the Lord in their sequestered priuat meetings from their brethren the antichristians and so pretended to set vp the Lords ordinances but with all they would not forsake the antichristian estat but walk in both together and so continue as the Samaritanes did 2. The Samaritanes thus abiding in their confusion or mixed religion yet when the people of God retourned out of captiuitie they presented themselues vnto them to be in vnion and communion and profered to build with them testifying that they did seeke the Lord their God as they did saying also that they had Esra 4. 2. sacrificed vnto him from their first planting in Samaria So likewise these men although abiding in their mixed religion and confusion yet esteeme it to be the true way of God and would be esteemed of those that are separated to be their brethren and professe their way and course to be the building vp of the house of God taking vpon them the name of a true Church 3. Although these Samaritanes were not accepted but refused yet did som of them indirectly creept into communion with the people of God So some of these creept into communion indirectly pretending that vvhich they were not in the which this man was the chiefe first as I haue before showed when hee creept into Mr. Lees people into their communion and after that cam ouer heare and vvould
for the matter of his casting out I haue before shewed and for the manner of his casting out hovv can hee tearme it a cast out at the windowes seeing it vvas done by the free consent of the Church yea and those vvhom hee now saith witnesse for them did not only consente but some of them hastened the elder to cast them forth and then their owne alliance had not to speake for them therfore if his cause had bin good against the Church as it is not yet might hee not so to haue written for is not the going in or the casting out at the window opposit to the going in or casting out at the dor as wee may see in Iohn 10. 1. and is their any planner manner of proceding then by the free consent of the Church either to receiue in or to cast out and was not the incestious person so cast out 1. Cor. 5. 4. yea and so was Mr. S. cast out by this Church and therfore cast out at the dore and not at the window And wheras he saith that vvee haue been bold to vent our worst wee could imagine against him vpon all occasion how is this true that hee saith when aâ—… wee let him alone so many yeares although hee hath don vs great injury and that in printe as before I haue showed and much more I could shew if I were of his disposition But what shall a man git by such things but rather deshonner the Lord and the trueth and therfore I let many of his clamours alone vnanswered because I judge it not wisdome to contend in such vaine contention being greeued that I am occasioned to doe so much as I haue done by him further hee saith â—…nd for your presumptuous determining my Eternall estat the Lord for giue you Answer Hee vvould make the reader beleeue that wee judge him a cast away and that no repentance shall be giuen to him of God but hovv euilly doth hee deale in this thing it appeareth thus Mr. S. after hee vvas cast out yet came hee ordinarily euery Lords day a great whille and troubled vs very much with heauy contention wher vpon as I to my best remembrance hard a brother say that it was doubtfull to him whether hee did not sinne against the Holy Ghost in that his doings novv if the brother had spoken neuer so absolut yet vvas hee but one man why doth Mr. S. speake as if it were the generall but this is his manner vvill I do desir that the Lord vvill giue him grace to shovv the contrary by repentance but what an idle thing is this that hee will print such a thing as this this vvas but a speech spoken by one man and hee showing his judgment vpon Mr. S. euill cariages then present and also before what may a vvise man thinke of this man how hee straineth other things for his porpose seeing in this hee dealeth so euilly for to sett downe one mans speech in such tearmes as hee that readeth may thinke it vvas the generall and novv I haue answered his Preface wherin I haue lett alone diuers of his clamours and admonissions for these reasons follovvings first his clamours and admonissions do return vpon himselfe his grounds being taken avvay and so hee being answered in the main differances 2. I am vnvvilling to follovv a man of his disposition in such idle contention in clamours and reproches and in laying open of the infirmities of men to the vvorld for I haue learned of Dauid not to tell of such things in Gath nor to publish it in the streets of Ashekelon lest the daughters of the Philistians rejoyce I could haue rewarded him the like but I spare such things and I am greeued that by him I was prouoked to speake that little I haue done but I could not vvell auoid it let the indifferant Reader judge 3. If I should go one vvith him in such vnprofitable strife vvho vvould respect to reade it but to cry the trueth out in the maine things indifferant may bee profitable to them that haue a loue vnto the trueth and novv to ansvver to Mr. S. Postscript to the brethren absent in the vvhich hee should haue had more care to sett dovvne the trueth of things as they are seeing hee meant to send abroad his vnprofitable writings Brethren it may hapely seem strang to you that the people hear complained of should be so irregular in their proceedings and so singular as to reject the helpe of all but since they had their reasons I thought it requisite to giue them their due herein the reason why they proceded not by the rulle Matth. 18. vvas because in this cause they had nothing to doe with it but vvith Iosua 22. and 1. Thess. 5. 22. Ansvver I say contrary to him that wee refuse not the helpe of any as their is just occasion and therefore wee haue do still professe that if any Church or Christian can show vs vvherin wee sinne in any thing vvee are redy to heare them but for this poinct see the Answer to his Preface vvher hee chargeth vs for rejecting of our 3â—… Article but let the Reader obserue hovv hee doeth skoffe vvith his ovvne abusing of vs first obserue that hee vvould take away strange conceites out of the mindes of the absent brethren by the giuen to vs our due in the shovving to them our reasons which reasons hee mindes to bee very vnsufficient for the bussines in hand Answer and so do I minde also as hee settes them downe therefore I vvill obserue his doings first where hee saith the reason vvhy vvee proceded not by the rull Matth. 18. vvas because in this cause they had nothing to do vvith it Answer but is this all that wee haue sayd haue wee not showed wherin wee had to do also vvith Matth. 18. in this bussines for that rull hath three degrees the first the second the third their is no sin handled in the Church which is not comprehended in this rull and this wee hold which is contrary to that that hee hath sett downe wheras hee saith but with Iosua 22. and 1. Thess. 5. 22. hear wee are greatly abused also for although Iosua 22. is effectuall for the bussines in hand as after I shall show yet that in the Thesalo is not of waighte for that hee settes it downe neither vvas it to that end brought those Scriptures was aledged to him in the publique when hee refused to debat the matter the one prouing that Christians ought to abstaine from all apparences of euill but seeing he had run into it this Scripture being compared vvith Iosua 22. they proue that Christians ought to cleare themselues in such like causes as that vvas and as their example reproueth them that vvould not follovv it so likewise is the example of the Church of Israell an example and rull for all Churches to keepe the watch of the Lord that his publique ordinances should not bee broken also Wee
find the like example in Actes 11. wher Peter submitted himselfe to the brethren at Jerusalem clearing himselfe and showed his warrant that hee vvas sent of God and now to ratifie to the consciences of all these Scripture alledged looke in the Phil. 3. 17. which sayeth Brethren bee followers together of mee and marke them which walke so as you haue vs for an example Now the Apostells I hope their writings are the commandements of the Lord Who ought not to bee afraid to practise the contrary novv I say these Scriptures agree with Matth. 18. concerning all publique matters in the 3. place therefore when that was spoken by one that wee had not to doe in this cause with Matth. 18. it was to bee vnderstood concerning priuat sinnes and of priuate nature therfore when wee saw how hee peruerted that parties meaning then there were other answeres giuen to cleare it as I haue showed if he hath giuen to vs our due in this let the Brethren judge and wher hee saith and the reason why they reject all others helpe was because they sayd they were contrary to all men Answer for rejecting of helpe I haue answered before but lett it bee obserued how euilly hee dealeth hear vvith vs first hee saith they sayd and hee knoweth it vvas but one mans speech and therfore if it hath bin altogether a mise spoken yet vvas it not the Churches for hee knoweth that nothing is the Churches but that which is taken by voice or consent vvith a space of silence and that is to be reckoned the Churches acte and hee hath bin told of this oftentimes and yet both hear and in other places hee thus abuseth vs moreouer although the words were not formable and therfore not proper yet hee knew his meaning vvhich vvas that all those vvhich he stod to haue to judge of his cause were contrary to vs in this bussines But to show his euill dealing let it be obserued that hee quoteth the 1. Thess. 2. 15. wher the Apostell saith of the Jevves vvho both killed the Lord Iesus and their owne Prophetes and haue persecuted vs away and God they please not and are contrary to all men Now his quoting of this Scripture to his speech before spoken of and showing no reason or distinction should not men vnderstand that that should bee our also novv obserue first hee taketh hold of on mans speech and maketh that the Churches Secondly hee quoteth a Scripture at his ovvne pleasure and that must bee our also is this to giue vs or due then let the Brethren judge Hee saith thus I refer my selfe to the indifferante presente vvhether I haue not sett downe their offences sparingly Answer by the Replie that is giuen now vnto you let the indifferant reader judge whether you haue not spoken laifeshly and very euill doing wrong vnto your neighbours vnto the trueth by causing a scandall by your vnprofitable writing and now lett the brethren judge between vs yea and any indifferant also and as for vs wee do acknowledge our offences and sinnes are many for the which the Lord may justly chastise vs many wayes and also it may bee the Lord hath bid Mr. S. to abuse vs vvith his tonge as hee bad Shimei to curse Dauid 2. Sam. 16. 11. But as Shimei was not guiltles although Dauid had prouoked the Lord neither is hee guiltles although vvee haue many offences but how do I see Adam in him posting of his sin nay I would hee did so much as Adam for although Adam did say the Woman that thou gauest mee she gaue mee of the tree yet hee saith this also and I did eat wherin hee did acknowledge hee had broken Gods command If this man did say so much I should haue hope of him but what shall I say I doe desir that hee may do it freely and that is all the hurt I wish him Before this former answer vvas finished this man hath sett out his third engion into the world in the vvhich hee playeth the rowears part vvhich setteth out other mens colleres to the end they may the easier surprise the marchants ships the penner of this after letter appeareth to bee Mr. Robinson who vvas forvvard enought to helpe this man in his corrupt estat as it appeareth by this letter yet novv I suppose hee vvrit by his information but whether hee did or not if now in the ansvver therof their bee that spoken which please not his friends and those which consented vnto this letter then let them thanke this bussy man vvhich set it out to the world and let them know whosoeuer they be that the trueth must bee preferred befor the respect of any be they few or many The Preface to the letter hath this title an appeale on trueths behalfe what hee meaneth by trueth hee giueth to vnderstand at the end of his Preface and referreth the reader to the letter vvherby I vnderstand these 2. First his refusing to answer and his factious meeting which hee calleth lawfull but of these 2. pointes lett the Reader obserue the ansvver before giuen and then it vvill appeare that these desearueth no such title but rather to bee titled a plaeye against the trueth Here follow the Preface to the Letter OUr opposites after much and long strugling as vvild creatures taken in a snar perceiuing neither freind nor forenner knovv how to yeld them any reliefe though they creept basely for it being yet set to hold it out trueth fayling them Answer Now this man beginneth to shew himselfe in his kinde and obserue I pray his differant cariage in the beginning of his least booke before this and also the first hee cometh vvith fare showes and woud make the vvorld beleeue that that which hee doth is all in loue and therfore hee calleth vs Brethren although euen then hee did vs great injury but vvhat maketh him to change his tune so quickly it seemes by his ovvne words the very hearing that wee porpose to make ansvver to his clamours and novv how doth hee bestore himselfe telling to all to whom his writing shall come that trueth faileth vs and that wee are taken in a snare and that wee can haue no reliefe with the rest of his vanting words and all this and more hee doth before such time as wee haue put out any ansvver vnto him therfore hee is more like â—…nto a vvild createur or like vnto a man that is vvilde in condition which hauing heard that his ennimy doth porpose to meete vvith him presently hee drayweth out his sorde and their with smiteth round about him and crieth out to his ennimy that hee can not stand before him but yet I thinke hee should haue stayed himselfe till one combat had bin tried and not this to haue vanted himselfe Well I will leaue it to consideration whether Gaall Judges 9. 29. or hee bee the greatest boasteres and if wee be as hee saith taken in a snare hee wanteth not will to hold vs fast
but I will grant him to be the diuells snare layare as before I haue showed and I also grant that hee and some with him hath in snared and troubled the mindes of some which hath troubled vs now that hee being a chiefe instrument in this our troubles or strugling as he tearmeth it let him take the shame of it vnto himselfe and let him and all know that wee are commanded to striue ernestly for the faith once giuen to the Saincts Iude 3. and for vs I hope wee shall haue cause to say as the Psalm saith Our soule as a bird is escaped out of the snare of the fowler the snar is broken and wee are escaped Psalm 124. 7. And for to looke for help at the hands of men vvee leaue that vnto him which doth so labour for it and it shall bee sufficient for vs to haue the vvord of the Lord for our warrant to satisfie the conscience of all that feareth the Lord. And wheras hee saith that wee creept basely for helpe or reliefe I know no such thing yet obserue how contrary hee is vnto himselfe one whille hee saith wee reject the helpe of all and hear hee saith that wee creept basely for reliefe and neither of them are true as hee would make the Reader to vnderstand for I haue answered before that wee reject the helpe of none in due order and as their is just occasion And vvheras hee saith novv they vnconsciennably inuent slanderes hoping after so long time past they may now boldly change the causes of our differances and say vvee were cast out for a tempting to lead them to idolatry and so all wee haue published is no other then lyes vvhich they novv threaten to manifest to all the vvorld ANSWER Wee vvill leaue the inuenting of slanderes vnto himselfe vvho hath so laueshly let his tong and pen run that way as hath bin showed neither will vvee change the causes of our differances and therfore I haue layd it downe before that they were cast out for a factious or vnlawfull meeting 2. For contempt of gouernment in their refusall to answer or to debat their matter and 3. for contention in the manner of cariages these were the heades of their causes of their casting out But now doth hee thinke by this his clamours to stay vs that wee shall not speake or lay open his sin in the perticulars as vvee haue just occasion vvhich is contained in chose generall heads and seeing hee would not debat his matter before hee vvas cast out but vvould haue it tourned backe in to priuat therfore although hee hear of it in the publique vvee do him no injury seeing hee administers the occasion and if vvee should not lay open the perticulars to proue the faction or vnlavvfull meeting hee I suppose vvould take the aduantage therof therfore let the Reader obserue the ansvver before giuen but that any hath so spoken as hee settes it dovvne I knovv none yet if there did any so speake they shot some thing nearer the marke if the perticular bee looked into And vvhereas hee saith that vvee euer haue shuned triall to such clamours I haue ansvvered before But wheras hee saith that this letter doth manifest it wher also contrary to our saying is confearmed that they censered vs for not acknovvledging intraping demandes for Christ government and a lavvfull peacable meeting for faction Answer Hovv this letter doth manifest this vvhich hee saith it vvill in the ansvvering thereof appeare in the meane time to him I ansvver vvee might vvonder how Mr. Rob. can conferm that vvhich hee speaketh of seeing hee vvas altogether ignorant hovv things were caried and then on the other hand considering hovv hee vvas corrupted vvith the same errour and more errours of like natur vvhich also receiued him by that Samaritanest Couenant and also receiued for trueth this mans information and those that assist him considering of these things wee may obserue what caried away his affection but for answer I giue this man to vnderstand that Solomon Prouerbes 18. 17. hath told vs the condition of such as hee is therfore the greatest and first complainers are not allwayes the most clears of euill and therefore now let such as know the trueth judge and consider what is sayd betvveen vs concerning this matter Hear follovveth the ansvvering of the Letter of the Church of Leyden WEe receiued your letter Brethren but not ansvvering either our expectation or the vvaightnes of the bussines in hand ANSWER THis waightie bussines vvhich hee speaketh of vvas a reconciling of those persons vvhich vvas cast out for these things in question and hovv should vvee answer their expectation seeing those opposites were so stiffe in their sinfull course as that speech doth manifest which one of them spake aluding to Paule Actes 24. 14. in vvhich speech hee vvould seem to imitat Paule but although it vvas good in Paul to vse that speech and showed his fearmnes in the trueth yet vvas it euill in Mr. S. to vse that speech in the behalfe of his sinne and it showed his stifnes in the same and therefore no hope of reconciliation they so standing in that minde And vvheras Mr. Robin vvould seen to justifie him for his stifnes saying first touching the person intended by you I should not seeme strange to any if hee were most forvvard vvho vvas deeply interested in the bussines and that so far as his Church estat and membership must necessarily stand or fall vvith that Couenant impugned by you as the branch vvith the roote Answer I denie that his membership should stand or fall by that Couenant for wee receiued him to vs one these two grounds first as a member coming from the Church of Leyden vvith vvhom wee vvere in communion 2. As being a man capable because hee vvas fully separated from the false Church and this hee had manifested vnto vs before wee receiued him and although the Church of Leyden vvhich held the Couenant true did so receiue him by that Couenant yet wee allwayes rejected that Couenant and did not receiue him by that Couenant vnto vs for vvee hauing novv another ground to go vpon First that hee vvas a man absolutly separated 2. That hee being novv a member of a true Church vvhich vvas in communion vvith vs and allthough Mr. S. vvas contrary to himselfe in that hee vvas novv separated yet held that Couenant true yet else how should wee beare vvith him in the differance of his judgment according these Scripturs Rom. 14. 1. and Phil. 3. 14. 15. alwayes prouided that hee keept his errour to himselfe and not to corrupt others their vvith and this vvill stand vvith the Scriptures that so vvee receiued him yet if any can show vs other vvayes that it will not stand but that wee ought to haue don more then there is a remedy by faith and repentance in Christ to helpe all our a mise doings and not to run vnto such extreme conclusions as Mr. Robin would
driue it nay yet further I say that if the Church of Leyden vvho first receiued him and that by the vertue of that Couenant if they had come to see their errour in so doing yet vvould it not follovv that hee should bee desmembered seeing hee vvas separated but the Church ought to acknovvledge their sinne in so doing and to see that hee corrupted not other Reu. 2. 20. with his errour and that reason helpeth him not from Gen. 29. 24. where hee saith As Zilpah vvas not nor could bee rightfully Leahs handmaide except shee had bin Labanes first rightfully by whose gift shee was transmitted and conueyed vnto her Answer I grant that Laban could not rightfully giue her except shee had bin his rightfully before but if Laban had stollen her and Zilpah had run avvay and come to Leahs into the land of Cannan then Leahs might haue bought her or haue hiered her and yet Laban should haue no injury offered vnto him vnlesse his stealling her made her his rightfully vvhich neâ—… man ought to say So likewise neither the Church of Leyden nor any true Church ought not to receiue any from such an vnseparated people seeing they haue but stollen the ordinances of God and haue no right vnto them And whereas hee bringeth these reasons to proue his deepe intrest in the bussines let all know that no conceited intrest vvill beare out any to maintaine an errour and therefore all his reasonings is of little weight And for that hee saith that the Couenant vvas by the Churches both here and there also in the time of those vvorthy gouernors now at rest in the Lord esteemed truely Christian I pray let vs examme the trueth of this that the Churches both here and there did so esteeme for our selues I may say that the Church neuer did receiue it and therefore not so esteeme it neither vvas the voice of the Church euer taken concerning that Couenant but vvhen they showed their minde to bee contrary vnto it and condemned it Or doth Mr. Robin thinke that because our teacher who was a mise informed did a little whille esteeme of the Couenant that therefore the Church must so esteeme also and thought that wee must doe as these which consented to this letter which followed oâ—… suffered him in all or the most of his declinings And for that Church which is present in the place vvhere those Couenantmaker are as wee are truely informed by themselues they did neuer receiue it How is this true then vvhich Mr. Robin sayd but if it had bin so what vveight is there in that reason to helpe the Couenant much like vnto the reason of the Pharises Iohn 7. 48. which sayd against Christ doth any of the Rulers or the Pharises beleeue in him but this people vvhich know not the law are cursed Therefore I conclud it is not the esteeme of Churches nor of gouernors which giueth authority to such things but the word of the Lord and where hee saith the party intended by you should by your grounds not haue bin cast out but left out of the Church Answer Our grounds inforce not that conclusion seeing the person vvas novv become a separated person and a member of the Church of Leyden from whence wee receiued him as before I haue showed in the next place there is a syd and a halfe of the printed letter spent to excues and to justify Mr. S. in that speech in the vvhich hee seemed to imitat Paule Actes 24. 14. but of that I haue spoken before yet still I answer that those his speechs did proue his stifnes in that his former course and therefore of reconciliation wee had no hope while hee so stod and continued and for Mr. Robinson profering to come and to justifie Mr. S. in that his former proceding to the which I answer wee know well that hee vvas redy to that bussines and that hee was one vvith him in that his errour and therefore just cause wee had not to bee redy to giue him intertainment to come as a moderator to middle the matter seeing wee find no such president in the booke of God yet this wee hold and professe that if any can show that vvee haue sinned in any thing vvee ought and are redy to heare them and this haue vvee signified vnto the Church of Leyden by letter and therefore the way vvas open for them to come in that manner In the next place hee saith And wheras the course well begone and tending to pacification was as wee vnderstand interrupted and broken of vpon a ground taken from the course of not calling againe into question ciuill judgments once passed by the judge according to right let it not bee greiuious vnto you if wee a little warne you of that dangerous foundation vpon which it seemes you to much build your manner of procedings in the Church Answer To hould that matters being ended according to right ought not at mens pleasures to bee called into question againe I see not this proued to bee dangerous by all that which Mr. Rob. haue sayd For if matters rightfully ended should at mens pleasurs bee called into question vvhen vvould their bee an end of contention either in the Church or in the common wealthes and for the distinction which hee puteth between the ending of ciuill judgments of the casting forth of the sinner by the Church namly that repentance should follow to these distinctions Wee agree and signifie withall that if wee could see that good worke in these persons in question there vvould bee quickly are conciliation but yet further I ansvver to take away occasion from such as take an occasion to cauill at things equall that wee hold it lawfull although a matter bee rightly ended yet vvee may go ouer it againe as the occasion may bee offered yea and more then once and this wee haue practised in this matter in the publique with these men diuers times but yet it vvill not follow that at mens pleasurs wee must do this and bring our liberty into bondage and so to vphold contention But wher hee saith that a larger extent of discretion this vvay fevv causes in any age can persuad to then this in hand considering both the ground and cariage of the thing and the number of the persons opposite and vvith these intrest of all other Church in the bussines Answer The comparison of any age is more fit to shovv eloquence and to set a glose vpon the thing in hand rather then to proue that for vvhich it is brought and for the ground and cariage of the thing I haue before spoken of it to the which I refere the Reader and for the number of the persons opposite I answer although I am sory they are so many yet I am glad they are so few seeing these men are such suttell opposers labour so much to corrupt the mindes of the simple and hauing with them Ioab the captaine and Abiather the Preist I meane Mr.