cause of this blasphemie for S. Peter in his i. epistle 3. chap. cōmaundeth vs to be alwayes readye to render reason to all that shall demaund vs of the fayth hope that we haue And again S. Paul Colo. 3. chap. Pro◠10. b let the word of God dwell plenteously in you but what answere make they to that which are more folish then the very fooles in dede Blessed is euery symple one he that walketh surely But that is the cause of all euills for that that many know not how to alledge aptly the testimonies of the scriptures for in this place we may not vnderstād the symple for the foolyshe and for him that vnderstandeth nothing but for him that is not craftye and melicious For if it shoulde be so vnderstode it should be superfluous to say be ye wyse therefore Math. 10. b as serpentes and symple as doues S. Ambrose vpō the 2. epistle to Tymothe 3. chap. sayeth All scripture geuen by inspiration from God c. It is manifest that all Scripture wherof God hath declared himselfe to be author is profitable For it is geuē to that end that it shoulde profite the ignoraūt reforme the deformed drawing the wicked into al good workes for by profiting a litle and litle in newnesse of lyfe it maketh the mā of God c. The law of the Lord is perfect restoring or conuerting soules the testimonye of the Lord is Collo 3. b Psal 19 Psal 119 faythful and sure it geueth wisedome to the ignoraunt The statutes of the eternall are righteous reioysing the hart the cōmaundement of the Lord is pure and doth lighten the eyes And againe Thy word is alampe or lanterne to my fete a light to my steppes The Prophet Esay in his 8. chap. sayth is there any where a people that asketh not councell of hys God Should men turne frō the liuing to the dead If any man want light let him loke vpon the law the testimonie whether they speake after this meaning The lyght of the Ezech 20. c morning shall not be geuen vnto them Moreouer the Prophet sayth Say to the childrē in the desert walke not in the ordinaunces of your fathers obserue not al their statutes be not defyled with their idoles I am the Lord your God walke in my ordinaunces and kepe my statutes and do thē Eccle. 1 a Itē the fountayne of wisedome is the word of the soueraign Lord God the entre into the same are his eternal cōmaūdements And agayn Search the scriptures for in them you thinke you haue eternall life and they bee they which beare Iohn 5 Iohn 20 g witnes of me And Iesus did many other thinges that are not written in this boke in the presence of his disciples but these things ar writtē to the end that you should beleue that Iesus is the annoynted sonne of God that in so beleuing you may haue life thorow his name The holy scriptures are In what recommendacion God hath his Word full of the lyke sayings The auncient fathers are full of the worthines of the scriptures S. Augustine in his 56. sermon made to the brethren that were in solitude sayth he that maketh none accompt of the reading of the holy scriptures sent from heauen ought not onely to feare that peraduenture he shall not receaue euerlasting rewards but also that he shall not escape the euerlasting punyshmentes for it is so daūgerous vnto vs not to read the deuine precepts that the Prophets with great sorrowe exclame cry out for that cause haue Esay 5. c Ose 4. b 1 Cor 14 my people bene brought into captiuitie because they had no knowledge for he that is ignorant shall be ignorant out of all doubt he that in this world maketh none accompt to seke to know God by the holy Scriptures God wil not vouchsafe to know him in the ioyes euerlasting we ought to be a feard to heare after that the gates shall be shut with the folyshe virgins I know you not I haue none acquaintaunce Math 25 ◠with you you that worke iniquitie depart you frō me what meaneth this I knowe you not I am not acquainted with you how knoweth he not those that he sendeth to the fyre There is neyther of thē spoken without cause for as it hath bene already sayd suche as woulde not in thys world seeke to knowe hym by reading the Scriptures GOD will not acknowledge them at the day of iudgement We ought also not to heare negligently but with attentiue eare fear that which is written in Salomō he that turneth sayth he his eare Prou 18 ◠frō the hearing of the lawe his prayer shal be abhominable wherefore he that will be heard at Gods hand muste fyrste heare God For how woulde he that God shoulde heare him when he doth so dyspyse hym that he maketh none accompte of the readyng of hys commaundementes Saint Hierome in the proeme of his Commentaries vpon Esaye to Eustochius sayth therfore I yelde vnto thee and to hym by thee that whiche I do owe obeyng the commaundement of Iohn 5. f Math. 7 ◠Christ who fayth searche diligently the Scriptures Seeke and you shall finde to the end that it be not sayd to me as it was to the Iewes ye erre not knowyng the Scriptures the power of God the wisedom of God and truly after S. Paul if Christ be the power and wisedom of God he that knoweth not the scriptures the same knoweth not y◠power of God nor his wisedō To be ignoraūt of the Scriptures is not to know Christ c. S. Chrisostome in the Homelie 29. vpon Benefis sayeth There is neyther griefe of body no◠mynde in the nature of man but it may haue medicine of the Scriptures c. These are sayinges of great importance and are true They are no Legend lyes They are confirmed by the word of God whiche is the infallible truth Then if man know not God as he ought to do but by the Scriptures that none can be saued but by the knowledge of God and Christ Thē must it nedes folow that ignoraūce of the Scriptures bryugeth with it damnation I haue alledged here mo sayinges of the fathers then I would haue done nothyng so many in number as I could haue done but bycause the great swarme of aduersaries say that it is not lawfull or expedient that euery man should read the Scriptures but rather that the people should be ignoraunt affirmyng ignoraunce to be the mother of deuotion I could haue aūswered it to the full by the woorde of God alone whiche woorde I thincke to be most sufficient but bycause these kynde of men before named wil not accept Christ to be a true man of hys word except he haue some of the doctors fathers for witnesses Seyng nowe that it hath pleased our good God in mercy so to deale with vs as he hath in these our
goodwil will bestow vpon vs and coÌ„trarely that God by his great goodnes and mercy doth fight agaynst our malice and frowardnes euen as to bestowe of hys graces vpon vs will we nill we and to withdraw vs froÌ„ these bottomles pittes of wickednes into the which we go about to throw our selues most willingly ¶ Of the cause of the fall and â—uyne of mankind and of the remedy and meane hovv to recouer the same D. THat same was the first fountaine and spryng of all the disorders mischiefes that euer entred into the worlde That same was the very pathe that our first parentes tooke That same was the very meane by the which they fell from that hye degree and state of felicitie peace quietnes and ioye in the whiche God had placed theÌ„ in the beginnyng throughe the whiche they haue dampned them selues withall their rase and are fallen into this greate disorder and confusion in the whiche we are euen at this present bycause that we as their proper children folow eueÌ„ the selfe and same councell that they folowed Therfore seyng that we do knowe the cause of the euill why do we not trauayle to finde out the remedies contrary to the same for so much as the euil doth procede of that that we refused to folow the councell and will of God and folowed the councell and persuasioÌ„ of the deuil Let vs now leaue the deuill withall his intisementes and persuasions and let vs enquire at the mouth of God and take councell of him howe to learne to knowe his will and to folow the same and then all disorder and confusion shal be cleane put away and euery thing shal be brought into good order For in dede the onely wil of God and the obedience thereunto belongyng is the mother and nource of al good order It is onely she that doth beget it nourish it and maintayne it and is the onely rule wherwith if you measure all things wel al disorder shal be chauÌ„ged into good order ¶ Of the difficultie that is in men to acknovvledge their errours and faultes and of the argumentes that they hold of auÌ„cient custom and of the authoritie of their predecessors and of auncientie and of the multitude vvherevvith they arme them selues T. I Do like all that whiche thou hast sayde very well but there are very fewe that will take that waye for there are that are so hard harted and obstinate that a man shall not make them beleue that they ar in errour what reason soeuer he bryng agaynst them out of the booke of God nor they will not acknowledge their abuses faultes although they be so filthie and apparent that euery man doth see theÌ„ and that euery man doth handle them These men alledge their predecessours and say that they wil be no wiser nor better then they for they say that they wer honest men and wise ynoughe for to know the wil of God Wherupon they conclude that if those wer dampned they wil be also dampned with them An other sort alledge auncieÌ„t customes and the multitude of men and the continuance of tyme and the auncienti of their order of lyfe ¶ Of the proces that men brynge agaynste God and of the shyftes that they seeke to cloke their rebellion agaynste hyâ— vvorde D. FOr so muche as men wil not be brought to that passe to yelde that obedience vnto God whiche they owe vnto him but will go to the lawe with hym it must nedes come to passe that they searche out some shifte and some starting holes and excuses to giue some shew to their cause Wherefore if we shall gyue them place they will neuer be vnfurnished of shiftes But it is greate follie for them to pleade their cause with God for he must be the iudge and not they wherefore they may well assure them selues that all their reasons and excuses shal be of no greate value before hym when they shal be wayed in the ballances of hys iustice and iudgementes But bycause that men haue bene alwayes accustomed to flatter them selues and that they do so dilighte in their errours that it is a hard matter to bryng them to acknowledge them selues to be so foule and filthie as they are I am well contented that we do examine their fayre discourses and their goodly allegations T. I would be very glad therof ¶ Hovv that al false Religion may be vvel defeÌ„ded if that antiquitie the authoritie of predecessours may haue place D. LEt vs nowe see what foundation that hath whereof you haue nowe spoken There is no errour secte heresie false doctrine nor wickednesse so greate but that it may easely be defeÌ„ded if such reasons mought be allowed For a Iewe a Turcke and a Pagane may well alledge as much T. I confesse the same D. If then these ChristiaÌ„s as they name theÌ„ were Iewes Turkes or Pagans borne they woulde so continue because they were so borne also their predecessours before them T. There is no doubt of it D. These kind of men haue none other reason to main tayne their order and maner of lyfe but onely wilfulnes obstinacie by the which they do right wel declare that they haue not well considered what the Lord sayth by his Prophet Ezechiell Walke not in the wayes of your fathers nor be Ezech. 20 you filed with their Idoles for I am the Lord your God you shall walk in my commaundements see that you swarue neither to the right haÌ„d ne yet to the left haÌ„d It is also writteÌ„ you shal not do as those the ar gone before you neither file Leu. 18 you your selues as they haue done Take hede that you do not according to the custome of the land of Egypt in the which you haue dwelled Nor yet after the custome of the land of Chanaan So the you walke not in their statutes but se the you obserue my ordinaunces that you giue good hede to my coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts to the end that you may walke in theÌ„ Let vs coÌ„sider also how the spirite of God did blame reproue the auÌ„cieÌ„t 1. Reg â—â— Samaritanes These people did not hearken at all but did liue according to their auÌ„cient custome These people then feared the Lord but yet they serued their Idols notwtstaÌ„ding They folow their auncient custome euen to this very day They do not feare the Lord nor kepe that ceremonies that iudgements the law the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t that the Lord gaue to the son of Iacob which is surnamed Israell If our predecessours haue walked in the wayes of the Lord we may iustly alledge theÌ„ for God hath coÌ„mauÌ„ded vs to folow such personages not for their own worthynes for they are but meÌ„ as we are not Gods but bycause that they haue followed in the way of the Lord which saith that it is he that is the Lord our God not our fathers For he is the most auÌ„cieÌ„t father that we haue which onely is the father of veritie
of the God of the earth whiche gouerneth that Councell by his holy spirit albeit it he remayn stil enclosed and hiddeÌ„ in the secret chamber of his brest and harte and of his authorised Apostles vntill the tyme conuenient Then his Legates whiche are the first borne of his children and creatures declare the will of their holy father and their God T. Here is a goodly order of procedyng ¶ Of the prudence that is required in the disputations of the Councels of the Papistes and hovve daungerous it is for those that behonest to be there D. IN the meane tyme it behoueth those that dispute to haue good regarde in what maner and forme they frame their argumentes silogismes and how they propone their disputacions For if they do not conclude accordyng to the maner forme and shape of that conclusion whiche is already made betwene the holy father and his Legats or if they cast not their conclusion in the same moulde they will forth with gyue them to vnderstand that they are not sene at all in that Dialectica and Logicke whiche is required of them Wherof it foloweth that either their conclusions are despised as those of vayne men whiche speake in the aire or els if they do somewhat presse or touche the honor of that God whiche raigneth in that same Councel the daunger is very great for those that shall make any such coÌ„clusions For afterwards they must nedes of force dispute with fagots executioners and fire For that is the last refuge whereunto these worthy pillers of mother holy Churche haue their recourse the God in whom they haue greatest hope to witte the God of the Chaldees and Persians as we haue sene by experience in the persons of Iohn Hus and Hierosme of Pragne at the Councell holden at Constance about an huÌ„dred or sixe score yeares passed For he that agreeth not to the conclusion of that Antichrist and of his spirite the same doth sinne agaynste the holy Ghost wherefore the sinne is not to be forgeuen there may be neither Pardon nor Indulgence found wherby to purge the Church sauing onely by fire T. Surely here is a goodly procedyng and very meete for the Vicar of Iesus Christe and his Apostles ¶ Of the resolutions and conclusions of the Papisticall Councels and vvhat personages they are that haue voyces in theÌ„ and vvhat scoole masters the Bishops haue there vvhat order they do there obserue D. NOw when the disputacioÌ„ is ended they must needes come to the resolucion and finall conclusion whiche is not done openly nor by the consent of all but is done in the Conclaue in a secrete place where none are admitted to come but the Popes Legates the Patriarches the Bishops and the generals of the Monckes These do there conclude what soeuer pleaseth them without hauyng any regarde at all to any thyng that hath ben debated of in the Councell but to that wherunto euery one of them pretendeth those who haue seÌ„t them thether And for so much as the greatest part in maner of the Cardinals and Bishops that do there assemble together to make vp a nomber are ofteÌ„tymes but well fed and fatte beastes shodde and horned fatte Asses Mules loden with benefices they must haue some kepers Muletters to gouerne and to direct them And bycause they are in such matter much lyke vnto litle children they haue nede of scoole masters to instruct teache them to supplie their ignoraunce T. And who be those Asse kepers muletters that thou speakest of D. They are often tymes a certayne nomber of hooded Moonckes and bellye Dyuines whiche often tymes are in maner as ignoraunte as their scollers as veri Asses Mules as the Asses Mules that they gouerne lead sauing that the one sorte is more heuyly laden theÌ„ the other with benefices that the one sort haue a litle more sence knowledge the others more farmes Lordships but their coÌ„sciences are all one T. Then are these meÌ„ to the Cardinals Bishops in stede of the holy ghost by whose inspiratioÌ„ they speake being instructed by theÌ„ D. It is true but this holy Ghost is but a litle portioÌ„ a depeÌ„dance of the vniuersall spirite of the holy father of the whiche the Legates are filled For all these hooded belly diuines pretend none other thing but to fish for some Mitre Crosse some good be nefice or fatte prebend wherfore they are there as kitchine dogges wayting for some soope These are the dumme dogges of whom the Prophet Esay doth speake T. Then Esay xâ—â— they do not greatly care whether they do barcke at the wolfe and byte him or no. D. They are not there for any such purpose for their beyng there is onely to flatter to please and to procure their worldly honor and profite and to haue their portion of the pray whiche those wolues do gette And therfore they teach the Nouices to set their sayl accordyng to the wind which they seedoth blow and accordyng to the spirite by the whiche they know that the Legates are gouerned those who sent thyther both theÌ„ and the Bishops to the end that there might be there agremeÌ„t of spirites that all those particular spirites might agree resolue with that vniuersall spirite which doth there preside wherfore they haue not at any tyme so great dissention and diuision but that they may well say in their conclusions It hath semed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to witte that holy Ghost whiche presideth ouer them ¶ Of the matters of discorde that may be in the Councels of the Papistes of the causes of the agreement that is amoÌ„g them hovv daungerous it is for those that do maintaine the cause of the truth T. I Thincke for all that they haue not alwayes the best agremen of the world among them D. Yf there be any discorde of opinion among theÌ„ it is not coÌ„monly for any matter that concerneth the honor of God the edification of hys Churche the saluacion of the Christian people but rather for their ambitions and honours preheminences benefices particuler affaires For in maner al those that come thyther are assured the one of the other and there is nothing in the world that they haue lesse care for then for God for the honor of his Church and the saluation of their owne soules of the Christian people wherfore in this respecte they feare not one an other For there are seldome any other there but Scribes Phariseis Saduces HerodiaÌ„s Hipocrites and Epicures Glottons Dronckardes Whoremasters Sodomites Players HuÌ„ters with such like very ignoraunt in diuinitie of very filthy and detestable life should be al excoÌ„municated accursed and depriued from their offices if they should be iudge according to the rigor of the auncieÌ„t Councels of their owne decrees whiche do excoÌ„municate Ex concil Carthag Dis 23. Qui
truth as the deuill is the father of lyes who is in dede a very aūcient father but not so auncient as is God the father of all truth ¶ Of the argumentes taken of the multitude T. WHat sayest thou of the argumentes taken of the multitude D. If it were lawefull to alledge the multitude of mē the fooles and wicked should alwayes haue the better for they are alwaye the greatest nomber Wherfore we are forbidden in law to folowe the multitude for to do euill And our sauiour Iesus Christ hath willed vs to passe thorow the straite way for it is that waye that leadeth to eternall life cōtraryly forbiddeth vs to folow the large thorow the which many passe for that way leadeth to destruction Esech 20 ¶ Of the argumentes of tyme auncientie T. WHat sayest thou of those that alledge long time auncientie D. Ther is no greater reason in the alledging of time auncienti then in the alledging of the multitude For what is more auncient in this world then lying rebellion and disobedience manslaughter violence extorcion whoredome Idolatrie villeny and all kinde of wickednesse and abhomination for they haue had their beyng euen immediatly after the beginning of the world as soone as men were borne into the world T. These thinges haue begon at the least euen from the tyme that the deuil hath bene in the world whiche is as ancient as any man that euer was for he is the auncientest of al creatures and the father of al the euill that euer was is or shal be in the worlde and it is by him that it is entertained encreased and maintained ¶ Of the fall of the deuill and of his children vvhose predecessour he is D. IN dede it is very well sayd of thee for our Sauiour Iesus Christ doth call him not onely a lyar but also the father Iohn 8. of lyes For albeit that God did creat hym an Angell and in the same truth that is in God yet he could not so continue but did falle from truth into lyes whiche is the originall of all other euils euen as truth is the fountaine of Iohn 8. all goodnes He is also called a mansleyar and a murderer from the begynning And bycause that Cain did by and by folow him S. Iohn sayeth that he is the sonne of the deuill Iohn 3. and that he slew his brother bycause he was of the wicked And in the same place he saith also he that sinneth is of the deuil for the deuil sinneth euen from the begynning In the whiche Saint Iohn hath folowed the maner of speakyng of his master Iesus Christe who called the Iewes childrē Ioh. viii of the deuill for that they were lyars and murderers of the seruauntes of God and of hym whiche was and is the very sonne of God which thyng proceded of the very hatred that they had agaynst the truth which was preached vnto them by Iesus Christ and his Disciples ¶ Of the predecessours of the vvicked and infidels and hovve the auncientie of sinnes doth procure Gods vvrath vpon men and doth not excuse them T. IT foloweth then by this accoumpt that such as folow and do the worke of the deuill ar the deuils sonnes successours D. The matter is playne wherfore thou mayest easely perceyue by this what predecessours such kynd of mē may alledge that will folow any other order of lyfe then that whiche hath ben taught vs by God what cause they haue to glory of auncientie and of old worldes Let them thē alledge the deuill for their most auncient father and with his lyes fight against the eternal truth of God let the mansleaers and murderers alledge Cain and the Sodomites those whose name they beare All these kyndes of mē and al other wicked ones haue fathers very auncient they do folow one doctrine and one sorte of lyfe whiche is very auncient but truth vertue holynes innocencie God which is there father are yet more auncient for the deuil sinne and lyes of the whiche he is author haue had their begynnynge and raigne and therfore they shall once haue an ende But God is eternall without begynning and without end and so is his truth whereof he is father and of all vertues els And therfore God doth not onely not supporte heresies errours superstitions and Idolatries bycause of their auncientie but contrarylye he threateneth the Idolaters and wicked ones that the longer that they haue continued in sinne and folowed the same the greater vengeaunce he will send vppon them Wherfore it is spoken by the Prophet Esay Behold Esay 65. it is writtē before me I will no longer hold my peace but will yelde and throwe into their bosomes your iniquities with the iniquities of your fathers also saith the Lord and immediatly after whereby I will yelde agayne vnto them in their bosome the measure of their first worcke The Lorde speaketh this vppon good occasion for if the father haue ben wicked and the sonne is yet more wicked the iniquitie of the father doth not amende that of the sonne and make it vertue and not vice T. No but doth encrease it much more for the more of our predecessours that haue ben rebels against God so much the greater is our faulte D. It semeth vnto me that those which alledge their predecessors aūcientie to maintaine therby their errors and abuse do euen like as doth a traitor whiche would excuse and purge him selfe to ward his prince whom he hath offēded through his treasons that should alledge in his defence that his predecessours haue alway bene traitours liued in the like infidelitie towardes their prīces as he hath done towardes his Thinckest thou not y◠this excuse wer very lawful mete to appease the prince T. Euē so mete that it mought occasiō him to cut cleane frō the earth so wicked a race to the ende they should neuer be any more heard of D. It is euen so ¶ Hovv that none may so vvell alledge aūciētie as the faithful may hovv that al the allegatiōs of the vnfaithful are nothing els but clokes to couer their hipocrisie vvickednes T. FOr so muche as it is so it semeth vnto me that if auncientie might haue place there are none that may so wel alledge auncientie as may the true childrē of God D. No mā may deny yt. For God is the aunciēt of all worldes Esay xli Daniel vii Apoc. 12. 13 the first the last whose truth they folow by the which they are made his true lawfull children Wherfore these men may lawfully alledge cōmaunde vnto their children that whiche the Lord spake by Ieremy searche you out among Ierem. vi the auncient pathes whiche is the good way walke in the same T. I do thincke that those reasons whiche thou hast alledged are sufficient ynoughe to confute and shame those kindes of mē the vse these colours of predecessours of the multitude of times ages to
compare it with the age of that lyfe whiche lasteth for euer D. Yet doo we learne Artes and Sciences and occupatiōs in nomber in maner infinite whiche can stand vs in no stede but onely in this miserable and wretched life And on the contrarie we haue but one to learne whiche is able to leade vs out of all the miseries and wretchednes wherin we are here wrapt and to make vs happy for euer and yet we make none accoumpte therof but fiee from it reiect it and persecute it Howe shall we nowe be able to excuse our selues We will ryse three or foure houres before daye yea at mydnight We will ryde runne day and night both by sea and lād with great paine and trauayle and oftentimes in great daunger of lyfe and Heb. 1. Act. x. all this wil we do to gayne a little péece of money But although that God doth send vs his Prophetes his Apostles yea hys owne sonne and that hee doth teache vs by the mouth of hys seruaunts which is hys own mouth through the which he speaketh to vs dayly in hys Church and doth present vnto vs hys giftes and graces in our own houses yea euen in our beddes and tables Yet notwithstandinge we wyl not vouchsafe once to receaue hym we will vnderstand nothing of him nor yet learn any thing of him Shal we then alledge our ignorance and excuse our selues by it Our Lord Iesus Christ did very well vnderstande of thys sycknes and of the daunger thereof wherefore he sayde to those people that did follow him more for their bellye then for any spiritual doctrine Employ your selues and traueil not for that meate that perisheth but for that which endureth Iohn 6. into eternal lyfe the which the sonne of man shal giue vnto you When he nameth by the name of meate hys doctrine which is the doctrine of saluation and the saluation which he bringeth vnto vs by meanes of the same the which we can finde in none but in him onely He therefore geueth vs plainly to vnderstand how much this doctrine and this health are necessary for vs and how earnestly and diligent lye we shoulde labour for them for so muche as they are thinges that are much more necessary to eternall lyfe then is the bodely meate for the corporal lyfe and it is so muche more precious as is the soule more precious then the body ¶ Of the diligence that is in men to do euyl and of their negligence to doo vvell T. THou sayest nothng at all of such as employe theyr whole study and trauayle to do euyl If euery one of vs would take so great trauayle in the searche of this holy worke wherof thou speakest as doth the theefe to rob or the whore in the vse of her whoredome we should accomplishe a goodly woorke The theues rise vp in the night put them selues in great daunger and take very great paynes to cut mens throtes and we wyll not once lift vp our heade from our pillow to waken vs and to open our eyes to beholde and consider those thinges that appertayne to our saluation Satan our mortal enemy is so dillgent and continually lyeth in wayte to find meanes howe to ruinate and destroy 1. Peter ◠vs and we of our part are vtterly slothful and negligent in arming our selues againste his ambusshes and assaultes wherby we might auoyde hys snares Wherefore all thinges wel considered I see verye small reason wherewith to excuse men For there is no man but maye fynde meanes sufficient to attayne to this knowledge of God If that we were so careful of the eternal life as we are of this present lyfe and would as wyllinglye seeke for the one as for the other for ther is nothing that might ayde vs in that behalfe but God hath geuen it vnto vs. ¶ Of the vices that make men ignoraunt of God and of hys truth and hovv the seruauntes of God continually bring accusation agaynst them D. SAynt Paule was not ignorant of thys and therefore although he saye that he hath obtayned mercy for hys 1. Tun. 1. persecuting the Churche of God throughe ignoraunce yet doth he not excuse hymselfe by the same nor letteth to shew the greuousnes of hys synne calling hymselfe the greatest of synners a blasphemer a persecutor a man full of violence and oppression and acknowledgeth hym selfe woorthye of deathe and eternall damnacion If God of hys great mercye and grace had not succoured hym whereof he shoulde not haue needed if that he had not synned or if that hys ignoraunce mought haue excused hym For howe good so euer hys meanyng was or howe greate so euer hys zeale was towarde the lawe of God yet notwithstandyng his ignoraunce was not wythoute a great portion of that negligence and carelesnesse whyche is naturallye in men as touching the knowledge of God and godlye thynges nor wythoute some portion of the pride rashnes wylfulnesse presumption and arrogancie of the Phariseis and of the leauen of hipocrisye and superstition which are verye great vices from the whych euen those that are most perfect and holy cannot well shyft them although they doo not appeare vnto men T. If then thys doth happen to such as are of the most perfect sorte as to Saynt Paule what shall become then of a sort of glorious and arrogant hipocrites which are much more full of hypocrisy then of good conscience and haue a greater care for their owne glory and profyt then for the glory of God and the edification of hys church and haue such an opinion of their owne knowledge iustice and perfection that they thinke that no man may amende or correct any iot thereof For there be very few such ignorant ones amongst the persecutors of the church as was saint Paule before his cōuersion D. Ther is no doubt of that Saint Peter doth also impute vnto ignorance in the sermon that he made in Hierusalem Act. 2. vpon the day of Pentecost that which the Iewes cōmitted against our Lord Iesus Christ in the deliuering of Math. 17. Iohn 18. him to death preferring of Barrabas before him yet not withstanding doth not he let to lay it greatly to their charges as very murtherers of the true autor of life and verye sonne of God T. I perceiue by that thou sayest that God requireth of vs very great diligence and a great humility abiection and despising of our selues and that our negligence slothe presumption and arrogancye and our vayne glory and opinion that we haue of our selues are most commonly the cause of our damnable ignorāce D. It is euē so ¶ Of such as doo contemne the knovvledge of God euen as though they dyd knovv all thinges that appertaine to true Christianitie and also of the knovvledge that men maye attaine vnto in this life and hovv to encrease it T. I May well vnderstande by these what excuses those men may alledge that saye when they are wylled to enquire of the wyll of
the same and more occupyed in other affaires chiefly princes whiche are dayly troubled with busines vpon busines from all partes T. That is very true D. This is also to be considered That althoughe God be bound to no sorte of men or estates but that he may distribute his giftes and graces to whom it pleaseth him yet for all that the matter is so that he hath a great regarde to that holy Ministerye whiche he hath ordeyned in hys Churche Wherfore he doth commonly more adorne with his giftes and graces those whiche he hath iustly and lawfully called to the same then any others In like sorte that for the loue of the same he doth bestow often tymes goodly and excelleÌ„t Num. 14. Iohn 11. 18 gifts eueÌ„ vpon those that are euil to the end they shal serue in his Church of the whiche he hath continually a singular care we haue manifest example hereof in BalaaÌ„ and Caiphas for althogh he wer as euil a maÌ„ as the erth doth bear that the gift of god did profit him nothing as touching him selfe yet notwithstanding for the loue of him whose persoÌ„ he doth represeÌ„t as s Iohn doth right wil giue vs to vnderstaÌ„d Iohn xv God to honor this holy ministery ordained in his law hath made him to Prophecie Althoughe he haue reproued that man all his couÌ„sels T. This is worthy to be coÌ„sidered D. Then if princes and al other men do this honor to those that are skilfull in any thing to demaunde their aduise and couÌ„sell and in that behalfe to be gouerned rather by them then by any others they should do great dishonour not onely to the Ministers of God but also to their ministery to God which is auctor therof if they esteme theÌ„ lesse in their estate and do make lesse accouÌ„pt of their counsell then they do of the counsell of others whiche are not of like price ¶ Of the dishonour that those kynde of men doo vnto God vvhiche doo not vouchesafe to enquire of his vvill at the haÌ„des of his Ministers and vvhat authoritie the Ministerie of the Churche hath ouer all men T. THey would not do them so great honor as did the ancient PagaÌ„s and Idolaters here to fore to their false Prophetes For bycause they did holde them for true Prophetes yet in their error they had thys reuerence towardes God that hardly durst they enterprise any thyng that was of importauÌ„ce chiefly in things that appartained to Religion without inquiringe of the will of their Gods at the handes of their Prophetes D. Thou sayest truth And therefore it should be a great dishonor reproch to those that are Christians if they do not God and his Prophets so great honor at least as did the Pagans and Idolaters to the deuill and his Ministers thincking to honor God and his seruauntes And beside this yf ther were none other reason but onely this which is to wit that God hath willed that his Church should be gouerned by the ministerie of his word which if it wer not but only to obserue the order that God him selfe hath appointed yet is it requisâ—te that all men both great small submit theÌ„ to that holy ministery to that order which god hath established in the same as al the good kinges princes of the people of God haue alwayes done notwithstandyng they haue ben maruelously endued with the giftes of God Was ther euer prince kyng or Prophet more excelleÌ„t then Dauid whiche was both a king and a Prophet T. I thincke not D. Yet notwtstaÌ„ding wheÌ„ he would gyue order for the building of the teÌ„ple for that offices ministeries appartayning to that seruice of God he did take in haÌ„d nothing wtout the aduise of the Prophetes of the Lord namely of NathaÌ„ by 2. Sam. 7 i. Chro. 17. whoÌ„ he vnderstode that the Lords wil was that the teÌ„ple should not builded by him although he had determined and purposed it but by his sonne Salomon In like maner Moses Exod. 1â— that great and excellent Prophete did he contemne the counsell of Iethâ—o his father in law whiche was of farre meaner estate then he ¶ Of the meane and order that princes should kepe in iudgement of thinges appertaining to Religion and to the reformation of the same T. ALl those things do confirme the opinioÌ„ of those that wil coÌ„mit all things yâ— touch Religion to those that are called meÌ„ of the Church without dealing therin theÌ„ selues D. Yf thou diddest wel vnderstaÌ„d me I did not coÌ„clude that princes other men should so addresse theÌ„ to the Ministers of the Church in matters of ReligioÌ„ coÌ„science that they should not deale therin so far as their office should require and to take good hede to what kinde of men they came least that in stede of commyng to the true Prophetes of God and Ministers of Iesus Christe they should addresse them to false Prophetes and Ministers of Antechriste as often tymes it happeneth T. This matter is perillous D. Therefore as those men are greatly to be blamed that make none accoumpt of the true Ministers of God and of hys Churche but wyll gouerne the Churche and determine of those thynges which appertayne to the reformation of the same folowing their own fantasie and opinion or els as though they had to determine of some worldly policie euen so on the contrarie part these kinde of men are greatly to be blamed whiche will not deale in it at all but suffer others to determine of it euen as it pleaseth them and are ready to execute that whiche others shall appoynte without hauynge any consideration of the thynge them selues But euen as shall please the others without due examynyng and vnderstandynge what they do For as the firste sorte vsurpe a greate tyranny ouer the Churche and ouer the Ministerie of the same lyke vnto that of the Antichriste who hath plucked to hym selfe the authoritie to dispose of the Churche at hys pleasure in lyke maner this laste sorte do wronge to them selues and do frame and establishe a derye daungerous tyrannye both agaynst them selues agaynste the whole Church and do confirme Antechriste in the possession whiche he hathe all ready vsurped ouer them For albeit that a iudge before he gyue sentence and before he wyll execute the same do aske the aduise and counsell of hys assistauntes yet doth he not gyue hys iudgemente accordynge to theyr sentences vntil he haue wel examined and vnderstood them Otherwise he should put him selfe in greate daunger and hys office should not be greatly differyng from the office of a hange man For the hange man doth not assiste in the counsell of the iudges he gyueth no sentence he hath no voyce nor medleth with theyr processe or causes of those that are delyuered into hys handes he hath nothing to do but only to execute that which is gyuen hym in charge But a iudge hathe farre other authoritie and greater charge
from them declaryng playnely in what perill they put them selues that folow such guides ¶ Of the care that euerye man ought to haue to knovve the vvay of saluation and hovv they ought to bevvare of false Prophetes and seductors of the people T. THen we ought not to be so carelesse but that we must enquire of that same waye by the whiche we shoulde passe to the ende that we mighte easely knowe if that in stede of leadyng vs in the ryght waye they should leade vs wronge D. It is very true and also we ought not to be so rashe and foolish that we should sodenly take guydes and conductors without hauyng any knowlege or testimony of them For if we should but passe thorow a wood or some other passage whiche were hard and difficill we woulde not take a man at aduenture to be our guide of whoÌ„ we could not assure vs least that in stede of guidyng vs the right waye he should bryng vs into the lappes of theeues to cut our throates as it happeneth oftentimes to many T. Yet not withstandynge thys way which we must passe is the moste daungerous of al for there nedeth no greate straying to loose vs all D. Therfore it is more nedefull to take good hede in this matter then in any matter els And for this cause are we so often warned in the holy Scriptures not onely by the Prophets and Apostles but also by Iesus Christ our Lorde to take heede of false Prophets which Math. vâ—â— Actes x Roma xvi Phill. 3 come to vs in sheepes clothing and within are rauening Wolues This admonition is not geuen vnto vs without cause T. That is doubtlesse ¶ Hovv that the admonitions vvhich are vvritten in the holy Scriptures agaynst the false Prophets do make them to be vvithout excuse that suffer them selues to be seduced by them D. FOr so much then that we are all aduertised and that the spirit of God hath geuen vs so many markes and signes wherby to knowe these false Prophets we may no more pretende ignoraunce in thys poynte for our defence then in the other matters wherof we haue already spoken For the case is not lyke with a Christian in matters of Christian religion as it is in other artes and sciences for that it sufficeth any man because he caÌ„ not learne all artes and sciences to learne one or two and to be excellent in some one science But the substance of religioÌ„ is of an other nature it is an arte it is a science and occupation which al men ought to vnderstand although all men may not be of like excellencie in the knowledge of the same nor yet be sufficient to execute the office of a Prophet or of an Apostle or of a pastour and Doctor in the church yet at the least euery maÌ„ is bound to knowe so much as he may vnderstand how to frame and gouerne himself according to the wil of God to know how to embrace that which is good and to refuse that which is euill and to knowe how to kepe himself from false Prophets and seducers for he that caÌ„ not do this shall paye for his ignoraunce as it hath bene sufficiently proued by the reasons before alledged Wherefore euery man hath great occasion before al other things diligently to coÌ„mend himself to God in these affayres with certaine affiaunce to be heard for he speaketh not this in vayne seeke you shall find aske and it shall be geueÌ„ vnto you knocke at the doore and it shall be opened vnto you for he that seeketh findeth Mat. 7. and he that asketh receaueth and he that knocketh at the doore entreth For the Lord is nere vnto those that call vpon him in veritye Beside this it is earnestlye requyred of euery Psal 144 man to seeke out diligentlye those that are good teathers least that in steed of the shepeheard we followe the Wolfe trymmed lyke a shepeheard which wil deuoure vs for we may not through our negligence attempt God And if we do this hauing a sincere and true care for the glorye of God and for our own saluation God will not leaue vs without the conducte of his holy spirite and without prouision of his goodnes according as it shall be nedefull for the saluation of euery man for that which Iesus Christ hath spoken shall remayne alwayes true to wit that he that wil Iohn vii do the will of God shal vnderstand of his doctrine whether it be of God or no. ¶ Of suche as alvvayes excuse them by theyr great busines and can neuer fynde conuenient tyme to hearken to the vvorde of God and to laye their handes to his vvorke T. I Am of your opinion but there are yet an other sorte which seme to haue more reason are better affected toward the word of God then are those of whom we did euen now speake But yet when I consider their workes I can not commend them There are that will soone graunt vs all that wherof we haue heretofore disputed they will confesse that we must enquyre of the wil of God in his word They will well allowe the doctrine of those that do truelye preach the word of God and follow the same and employe them selues in the busines of the Lord but yet for all that they wil not be ouer busie in it but wil find a thousand excuses They will alledge an infinite number of empeachmentes and empedimentes which let them Tere is amonge these men a number of mockers which say we must let God alone with the matter and that he will well accomplyshe his worke without vs. D. I do well vnderstand of what kinde of men thou speakest they are of the number of those which our Lorde Iesus Christ telleth vs of in the passage of those Math. xxâ—i Luke xiiii conuited gestes to the mariage of the which the one excused himselfe by his farme the other by his oxen newly bought and the other by his newe maryed wife to be shorte euery one had such plentye of excuses that not one of theÌ„ came to the mariage of those that were bidden but that of necessitye straungers were called And as touchyng those men which say that God will well bring his works to passe without them they say truth for God nedeth not any man to accomplishe any of his workes For when he setteth vs to worke it is not for neede as though he coulde not doe all that pleaseth him to do without vs. But when he calleth vs into his workes he doth it to doe vs honour in that we honour him making vs the ministers of his grace And therfore we shoulde bee the more diligent to take the matter in hand which if we do not he will assuredlye geue vs to vnderstande that he hath workes to do the which he will not do without vs to wit when he shall punysh vs for our slothfulnes and ingratitude T. Thou sayest very well for we must needes be there in
but could not God haue gyuen to men sondry orders of lyfe accordyng to the condition of euery people nation For we see by experience that there are lawes and customes in one countrey whiche are very mete for it and yet for an other countrey are neither meete nor agreable For what diuersitie of lawes customes and maner of lyfe do we see among men and chiefly in the administration of Iustice and in their pollicie whiche seeme in dede to be very contrary the one to the other yet notwithstandyng are both iust and rightous in their kinde and very necessary to those vnto whom they be gyuen wherof it foloweth that a law beyng good and iuste in one countrey and not in an other that the fault procedeth not of the law but of the diuersitie that is among men and of the circūstaunces of times of places and of personnes And without alledgyng mens lawes whiche do greatly differ the one from the other Let vs come onely to the law of God and let vs see if we finde not the lyke in them in some respects How many commaūdementes did God gyue vnto the Iewes vnto whiche he would not haue the other people to be subiect which wer before the comming of Christ nor yet vs which haue receiued the word of God by their ministery For how many things are there abolished by the new Testament whiche were very straytly cōmaunded and obserued in the old Testament and could not be omitted without greatly offendyng God and without great punishement of those vnto whome they were commaunded ¶ Of the causes of the diuersitie of the positiue lavves and of the difference that is betvvene those lavves vvhiche are gyuen as touchyng corporall thinges and those whiche do appertayne to spirituall thinges D. THere are many reasons to aunswere this question difficultie For the firste it is no meruell if there be great diuersitie yea and often tymes manifeste contrarietie and imperfection in mās law For the men which make them are changeable and inconstaunt And for so much as oftentymes they may fayle either through ignoraunce or els by being ruled by theyr affections it is often tymes sene that theyr latter lawes do correct theyr first T. But often tymes it is sene contrary and that the latter ar worse then the first and that they do abolishe others whiche are better then they are D. So much the woorse is it but there may no such thing be found in god And beside that we may not iudge of spirituall and heauenly thinges as we do of corporall and earthly things For we dayly see by experiēce that there are many lawes in the policie whiche if they were accepted generally in all countreys were as vnmete would as greatly hurte in some as they do profite in others And for this cause God would not make subiect the other nations nor yet the Christiās vnto al those lawes which he did giue to the people of Israell but hath left it to al mens choise cōditionally that this libertie be alwayes measured by the cōpasse of his will and eternall and vnchangeable law wherof we will here after speake For these lawes haue regarde to our body and goodes and to the cōseruation of the societie of man in the which it can not be but that there most be great diuersitie bycause they are made of diuerse qualities and are subiect to diuerse chaunges wherfore it is required that the law gyuer haue respect to the habilitie commoditie or incommoditie of those people with whome he hath to do to the tymes and places wherein he doth establish them But it is farre otherwise with the soule with those things that properly appertayne vnto the same For it is not compounded of such a substaunce as is the body And therfore is not subiect to such chaunges and diuersities the things that belonge vnto her are not for a tyme but are eternall And therfore it must nedes be that those lawes whiche are gyuen vnto the soule must haue a further regarde in that they must nedes be of a longer continuaunce ¶ Of the agreement that is betvvene the positiue lawes the ceremonial lavves and of the true vsage of them T. BUt God hath not onely kepte thys order in his ciuile lawes but also in those that he hath geuē for matters of Religion whiche touche the soule And beside that those same Ciuile lawes whiche he gaue were they not geuen to helpe towarde the obseruation of those whiche properly had regard to the soule D. I denie not that which thou sayest but thou oughtest to consider that this chaunge of lawes ordinaūces the whiche God hath vsed euen in the very matter of Religion doth not otherwise appertayne but to the ceremonies whiche are but outwarde thinges and not at all of the proper substaunce of the vnchaungeable wyll of God And therefore the ceremoniall lawes haue a greate agreement with the positiue lawes for as the ciuil lawes are gyuen for conseruation of the ciuill policie and to helpe also to leade men to yelde that obedience vnto God whiche they owe vnto him euen in lyke sort the ceremonial lawes do serue to entertayne the Ecclesiastique policie to frame men to the true seruice of God But for that the meanes by the whiche this may be done may be diuerse and that some of them may be mete for some tyme in certayne places and for certayne people whiche shoulde not be mete for others God hath therfore left it at libertie prouided that the rule which I touched before be therin alway obserued For these thynges are in this respecte as thynges indifferent and the chaunge that in them happeneth doth not procede of God ne yet of any inconstancie y◠is in his will but of our weaknes and inconstancie sauyng onely that God of hys goodnes doth willingly condiscend to our rudenesse and capacitie But there is an other reason in his wil which he hath declared to be eternall and in the thinges that he hath once de clared to be for euer good or euill and that depende of the same and are not onely as entries as are the ceremonies for in such matters he neuer changed any thing nor neuer made law by the whiche he allowed Idolatrie blasphemie adultery murder other lyke wickednesse whiche he hath once forbidden by his law whiche is nothyng els but a testimonie of his eternall will and of the naturall law which is naturally imprinted in the hartes of men by the whiche he hath put in them an impression of his eternal will which can neuer be cleane plucked out But for so much as it was meruelously darckened by sinne and that it did remaine as ouerwhelmed and buried and in maner in vs cleane wipte out it hath pleased God more playnly to declare the same vnto vs to awake vs to the end we should gyue the greater regarde vnto it and hath gyuen it vnto vs as well by writting as by word
principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of ⧠The second Dialogue intituled the waiting for the Councell or the Newtralles Of the reasōs vvhich cause many to desire vvait for a Councel and of the trouble that the difference vvhich is in Christendome in matters of Religion doth bryng to simple and ignoraunt consciences Daniel Timothe D. THou doost well remēber where we left as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell T. Yea in dede D. Will these men tary to beleue in God to serue him and to enquire of his will vntill the tyme that the Councell hath ben holden and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation of that which thou hast said that if they should serue God truly it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof why do they then tary for a Councell T. Bycause they say that in so great diuersitie of opinions as at this present day is in Christendome in matters of Religion they know not whiche to folow in surety For they see that some teache after one sort the others after an other that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions as betwene white and blacke and betwene fire and water That whiche one aloweth an other disaloweth that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine and for true seruice of God an other condempneth it as heresie or els as superstition hypocrisie Idolatrie and Apostasie And besides this ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance great vnderstanding and great authoritie accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side then of the other men heare their discourses men read their writtinges bookes there are goodly reasons of both partes which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures and by all meanes possible In this cause what shal a poore man do whiche feareth to offend God and hath a good desire to serue him accordyng to his wil but he may not wel attain to the knowlege therof bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God the other sayth it is not the will of God ¶ Hovve that the difference that is in Christendome in matters of Religion should not stay men from the diligent enquirie of the vvyl of GOD but shoulde rather prouoke them thereunto T. I Confesse that these differences which are in Christendome engender great trouble in the poore consciences of many but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible of the will of God and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him but they should the more earnestly be moued and prouoked to do it to ridde them selues with as much speede as they myght out of suche troubles For why least they tary in it if they haue any feare of God in what trouble shall they lyue and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate without hauynge some thynge certayne and resolued in my mynde whereunto I myght assuredlye staye T. For thys they require a Councell for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined that there shall bee a generall and a sure determination throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte and may know wherunto to trust D. It semeth vnto me that their hope is very slender if they haue no better hope then this I maye not deny but their desire is good we all ought to desire the same if there were any hope to se it come to passe that with spede for the soner it were that better bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of the soule thē of the body for if the medicine of the body come not in tyme to hym that is sicke that sicke person is not in daūger but onely of his bodely life but if the medicine of y◠soule be to long deferred ther is daūger of eternall death wherfore I do greatly feare that manye doo perish in tarying for those medicines T. There is much to be feared and also to be doubted in this matter ¶ VVhat profite the Churche of God may receaue of Councelles and of theyr issue D. THe Sinodes lawfull Coūcels is one of the best remedies that mē may haue to take away cōtrouersies in religiō it is the remedi wherunto in like cases that Apostles their true successors al that aūciēt church haue oftētimes had their recourse for albeit that the Coūcels haue no authority nor power to giue vnto the churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith but only to hold maintain y◠doctrine which is reueled by the holy Scriptures yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose in so much that they be as publike witnesses vnto it to succor the infirmitie of the simple weake also such as shall come after vs by the confessiō which is made of the same by thē by the publike testificatiō y◠there is declared by the perpetual cōsent of the Church of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end that the aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues better meanes much more meete for such a purpose then we haue at this presēt yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine that in their Coūcels which they desired And such vntowardnes was there that they did alway not onely not apease the differences abolish scismes heresies which troubled the Church but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples it were easy to do but we will not now enter into such matter I will cōtent me for this time to alledge onely touching this matter that testimonie the Gregory Nazianzen which was Master to S. Hierom did giue writting to Procopius of the Coūcels of his tyme whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time if I must nedes sayth he write the truth I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good or rather that they haue more encreased the euil then quenched it Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene touching this matter Which semeth to me somethynge harde for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue hath not ben such as was to be desired yet notwithstandyng Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels
them selues to the true reformation of God and woulde yelde vnto hym that obedience which of right they owe him but they would euery of them rather haue such a reformation as shoulde please their fantasie which should not displease thē at all but entertain thē in their pleasures And therfore it is no maruell if all frame not well that men be so euill matched oftentimes in all gouernmentes and that one be a hindraunce to the other And it is not greatly to be maruelled at if the ministers doe seldome finde good Magistrates and good people yelding to the ministerie of the worde of God such obedience and duetye as they ought to doe Moreouer it is not to bee maruelled at if the Magistrates finde very seldome true and faithfull Ministers of Iesus Christ diligente in theyr ministerie towardes the church of God who withoute flatterye will francklye shewe both them and the people theyr faultes which are subiecte to them as they oughte to doe and doe loue and reuerence them as their fathers And doe we maruell if the people haue more often Pastours and Magistrates tyrauntes which doe deuoure them and destroye them then good Ministers and Magistrates which woulde be vnto them in stead of fathers and desire more the honour of God and the saluation of hys people thē their own glorye and profitte For it muste needes come to passe that the offring must be like to the Saint as saith the prouerbe and that God do punyshe men in suche sorte the one by the other to the ende that they maye learne to knowe in them selues by the iniurye which others doe to them and by that which they commaunde of them what iniurye they doe to God and how he maye be pleased by them If then it be an hard matter to set good order in the church when either the Ministers Magistrates or people be other then of right they ought to be what discipline may we then hope for whē they shall be all in leage together to resiste against God and to make warres agaynst his worde and to destroye all good discipline T. That doth yet more often happen then the contrarye ¶ Of the difficultie that is in the vvorlde at this day to assemble meete men for a lavvfull councell and of the example of the auncient Christians concerning their fath tovvards the doctrine of the Apostles D. THē if it be so difficulte as nothing is more to set good order in a small countrey or little towne by meanes of these empeachmentes yea euen in those places where there is moste light of God and moste hope of reformation what will it then bee when it shall come in question for all Christendome and for all the worlde how harde a matter will it be to assemble so manye peces so euill gathered together and the one so contrary to the other If those which receaued the Gospell in the tyme of the Apostles seing the diuersities that then were in the religion and the resistance that was made against the doctrine of the Apostles woulde haue beene contented to abstayne from receauing of it vntill such tyme as a generall councell had bene called where had they then bene become When should they haue beleued the Gospell For who should haue assembled ordayned it Shoulde the Romaine Emperours haue done it which wer enemies and persecutours of the Christian religion which then were the most mightie princes vpon the earth Or ells Pilate and Herode Annas and Cayphas or ells the Scribes and Pharisies the Doctors and the Priestes of the Iewe or ells the Philosophers and the Prophets of the Paganes which were all aduersaryes to the Gospel what conclusion might men haue loked for at the hands of such men How should the Apostles and their adherentes haue bene receaued among those mē and of what weight or value should their voice haue bene How longe shoulde men haue wayted before that all these men would haue agreed together vpon any good determination for the doctrine of true religion That would not haue bene done before the day of iudgement ¶ Of the hindraunce vvhich the Christians doe cause in the reformation of the church more then all others and of the ende vvhereunto the suppostes of the popishe church tend vnder the title and name of a Councell T. THe world is not in these dayes as then it was For we haue now nothing a do neither with the Iewes nor Paganes nor yet with the Turckes And seyng that wee haue to doe but Christians with Christians the hope is the greater D. I know not But at the least I desire it for my part but I feare least the pure truth of God will worse be endured of those which glorie of the name of a Christiā then of the Iewes and Turckes For all those that beare the name of Christians are not for all that Christians for for so much as it is an other matter to be a Christian in name onely and to be one in dede and name together This fareth muche like the testimonies whiche we haue already brought sorth of auncient customes touchyng the aunciēt Samaritanes of whome it is writen that they feared the ii Reg. xvii Lord and yet notwithstandyng they serued continually their Idolles and afterward in this same passage he sayth that they did not feare the Lord. T. I was in mynde to desire thee to agree these two passages when thou diddest alledge them but that I was loth to breake of your tale D. It is an easye matter to agree them for the one expoundeth and declareth the other It is sayd that they feared God for so much as they made a certayne profession of the law but for so much as they dyd it not in dede but mingled theyr auncient superstitions and Idolatries with it it is sayde that they feared not the Lorde as it is declared folowyng But let vs come to the Samaritanes of our tyme for truly we doe not see at all more cruell persecutours of the Gospell then are those whiche are Popishe Christians But to what ende thinckest thou that the Councell of Trent is continued and that they haue newlye confirmed and approued all those determinations and resolutions that haue passed In the same Thou mayest well assure thy selfe that those worthy fathers whiche trauaile there tend to none other ende but to confirme and establishe agayne all theyr aunciēt errors to the end they may haue a more better coulour to defende and maintayne them here after and to persecute the children of God and to bathe all Christendom in the bloud of poore Innocentes and true seruaunts of God do they not apparantly shewe that they will not admitte any reformation whiche is comformable in any one pointe to Gods truth and that they haue no care neither of peace ne yet of the vnion of Christendome but onely how to maintaine their most filthy damnable estate and to oppresse by their tyrannie all true Christianitie and vtterly to destroy it
an end of the play D. The day wheron this is done all they of the towne where they are gathered to Coūcell must make a feast The Cardinals and Bishops doo assiste al there in their sieges seates clothed with their robes decked as it were bridegromes For it is there that the play must be plaide in deede And for so much as they haue had frō els where before that tyme not frō thence the inspiracion of their holy ghost that they be already resolued in that that they go about they do not then at all cal for their belly diuines hooded men whom before that tyme they had for their scoole masters but in such sort as they cal the rest of the hearers for there they nede thē not Notwithstandyng this to the end that they may giue all men to vnderstand that the determinaciōs whiche they haue brought thither already framed by them without the spirite of God before that euer they came thyther do procede frō God and from his holy spirite they begyn with inuocation of him to witte with a faire blasphemie to oultrage the grace of him and to renounce Iesus Christ our Lorde by whom it is gyuen for they sing a faire Masse of the holy Ghost with such ceremonies and so great mockeries and foolish toyes that the litle children would be ashamed to see it For the Masse must be Episcopall now there are many mysteries and ceremonies in such Masses moe then in those that are song by simple Curates and Priestes Ther is there also harmonie chauntyng and great store of Musicke euen as there was in the solempne feast holden at Babilon by the commaūdement of Nabuchodonosor to cause hys greate golden Image to be honored There is also a gaye and pompouse procession in the whiche all the players that playe in that play are clothed and disguised accordyng to the partes that Dan. iii they playe Then do they crye out for the holy Ghost with whō they would not haue to do notwithstandyng with very great desire Veni creator spiritus to the ende that he may come and inspire them to do that whiche is all ready done when this is done euerye mans opinion is asked of those thinges whiche are there proponed Vpon the whiche euery man playeth his part accordyng as he hath learned it and aunswereth accordyng to the conclusion which is al ready made Those whiche haue better memorie then the rest and do trust thereunto pronounce their sentence by hart the others reede it accordyng as it hath ben gyuen them in writyng in the cedules that their scoole masters and instructors haue made for them In the whiche often tymes there happeneth great inconueniences For there are some that haue so grose heades and haue so euill studyed their rolle that they are maruelously troubled to reede it a right And often times it is sene that diuerse of thē haue one kinde of Billet for so much as one scoole maister hath made them al hath geuen verye one theme to hys disciples ¶ Of the order that the Bishoppes do obserue in geuing their consent in the Councels and of the ende and of the curses of the same T. IF the worst happen it can not be denied but that ther is great vnitie of spirite among those mē for so much as they speake all by one spirite But is there nothing els D. Those that wil make no long discourse are discharged by one word of two sillables and a bowed downe head to vnderstand placet which signifieth it pleaseth mee For if ther were one syllable more which should be displicet signifieng it displeaseth me the answer would be very perilous When this is concluded the holye ghost without whose councel they haue determined and done all that euer they would and whom they haue greuously offended and blasphemed hath notwithstanding determined and concluded all those thinges according to their sayinges Wherefore they must be accompted euen as though they had proceded from the mouth of God And if there be any one that wyll say agaynst it he is excommunicated anathematised and accursed Therfore when their sentence and finall conclusion is in this sorte published they then frame the fourme of their excommunications anathematisations and cursignes wherewyth they thundder and lighten horriblye against all their enemies And not being contented wyth that to the ende that their thundrynges and lightninges should not seme to be without vertue and force men must come to fyre and weapons to mayntaine and defend these holy determinations T. This maner of proceding is very meete and worthy of such men as do embrace it D. Yet notwithstanding it is the very maner order that they do obserue at this presēt For it must nedes be that after this feast of Nabuchodonosor the furnace must be warmed also T. Then I do not greatly maruel if that Christendome receiue final fruit of such councels if they be holdē in none other sorte ther is no great hope to be had of them D. And good cause why for their holy ghost is to muche burning and of fire greatly different from him that was sent to the Apostles vpon the day of Pentecost T. Therfore I am wel Actes ii content that we leaue them that we speake of that councel of the which we began to talke and let vs see what order was there obserued without any more beholding that Tridētine play so magical bloody D. It shal be the best T. Seing that thou art of that opiniō I wil not suffer thee to be long at rest before I return to thee to hear thee speak of so woorthye a matter D. I trust by the helpe of God it shal not be all together without fruit ¶ The sum of the. 4. Dialogue intituled the resolution of the Councels to vvit vvherin the finall resolution of al Christian Councels and of Christian doctrine is had ALbeit that the little titles which I make of the principal pointes which are entreated of in this Dialogue may sufficientlye aduertise the readers of those matters that are therin handled of the fruit that maye come thereof yet notwtstanding I haue thought it good to aduertise them in the beginning of euery Dialogue of the effect of euery of them cōprehending in general y◠which afterward is debated of in particular Concerning this present Dialogue I do declare in it in what sort god gaue his law to his people by his seruant Moyses to what ende how it ought to be vsed what councell he helde by meane therof in the mount Synay what things ought to be considered therin And after that I do shew in what sorte thys general Councel doth lead vs vnto the other which foloweth being holden celebrated in the mount Sion in Ierusalem how those councels conteine in them al such doctrine as is necessary for the church of God Wherfore I haue named it The resolucion of the Councels wherein there is
Math. 25. 24. Iohn v. there set in the glorious throne of this maiesty with all hys heauenly Angels and all his Patriarckes Prophetes and Apostles to hold a Councel for to heare the last appellatiōs and to reuoke al the vniust sentences that haue bene geuen against his and against his truth which they haue folowed by the wicked decrees and Councels of tyrantes and of his aduersaries and condemne those which haue condemned that innocents and to absolue such as haue bene vniustly condempned It shal be he himself that shal pronounce the sentences the blessings and the cursses by the which the great beast and the great whore sitting vpon the same al those which haue borne the marke of the beast and those whiche haue bene dronken with the wyne of her fornication shall Apo. 17. 18 be condempned and the innocentes deliuered whose bloud she hath shedde through the ayde of the red Dragon in the which she hath died her garmēts of purple and scarlet Thē Apoc. xvii the beast and all his false Prophetes and adherents shal be throwen into the deepe pitte and into the fornace of fyre and brimstone which shall neuer bee quenched which shall greatly differ frō that in the which this cruel beast did roste Apoc. xx and burne the children of God in a fyre which is forthwith consumed into ashes wherefore we haue no occasion so to feare it nor yet the executioners which light it least the thynking to flee it wee fal into that euerlasting fyre and be deliuered into the handes of the hellish tormentors to be tormēted with them and by them euerlastingly and to be shut out from the company of this great kyng Iesus and from all his heauenly Courte to dwel eternally in the kingdome of darkenesse in that hellish Court and company so curssed and execrable ¶ Of the sanctification and preparacion that God did require of hys people vvhen he vvould giue them his lavv of the same that is required of vs to prepare vs to receyue hys vvoord T. SEing that it is so we ought then to geue good eare to vnderstande what is commaunded vs in that law Exo. xix and to heare it with great honour and reuerence D For that cause God before he discended into the mount commaunded that his people shoulde bee sanctified to receiue him and that they should prepare them selues twoo dayes before and that they shoulde washe their clothes and that they shoulde come neare no woman wherein he declared that al vnclēlynes and filthines abhorred him y◠to draw neare vnto him and to heare and vnderstand his voyce it was requisite to bring thether a hart and a minde seperated and free from al earthly thinges and wholye dedicated to him and rapte in him For he hath no respecte to apparel but by his outwarde cleanlynes and honestye he would giue vs to vnderstande what the inwarde ought to be and would vs to vnderstand that if a foule and a filthy garmente doo offend and loath a man then by greater reason hath he iust occasion to be offended with our hartes with out filthy souies and consciences being vile and infected with sinne And for so muche as they be suche and that the law was geuen to warne vs thereof and that we ought to seeke for our cleannes in him he commaunded that cere monie In like sorte because that mariage is his ordināce and that it is honorable in al estates and the bed vndefiled we may not therfore thinke that he condemned it when he Gene. 12 Math. xix Heb. xiii i. Cor. vii did forbid the people to be conuersant with their wyues for the space of two daies For if it wer not holy and honest he would no more suffer it in other dayes then in those daies but in shewing vs that it was expedient for vs to abstaine euen from those pleasures which were lawfull and whych he himselfe doth permit vnto vs when we will be occupied in meditaciō and prayer and in the hearing of his word in other holy thinges to the end that we should be wholye voide separate frō al earthly thoughts affectiōs to y◠end y◠thei might wholy giue them selues vnto him he giueth vs perfectly to vnderstand how much more necessarye it is to abstaine frō al vnlawful pleasures frō al filthynes villany It is also y◠cause why that S. Paul doth permit those i. Cor. 7. that are maryed to refrayn from lying together for a certayne time so that it be by the consent of both the parties to exercise them selues in fasting and prayer ¶ Of the fastinges and abstinences and of the differences of daies and meates vvhyche they obserue in the Popish churche and of their originall and foundation and of the defaulte that therin is T. I Do thynke also that for the lyke purpose it was ordayned in the olde tyme to faste the Aduente the Lente the Vigiles and the fowre Imbers and to abstayne from certayne meates the Fridayes and Saterdayes for to dispose and prepare men throughe abstinence the more willinglye to heare the woorde of GOD and to prayer and to the communion of the Sacramentes as well on the Sondayes as on other holye dayes and chiefely on the moste solempne dayes as on Christmas daye Easter and Whitsondaye D. It is lyke to bee true But al beit that it maye bee alledged that thys was ordayned for a good entente yet notwithstandyng there was a greate faulte in so doyng because that those which were Authours of suche traditions were so hardye not onelye to geue suche lawes to the Churche by their owne authoritie wyth oute the expressed woorde of GOD but also to make them perpetual and by them to put difference betwene daye and daye and betwene one meate and the other and to make the Churche subiecte to those obseruations whiche are more then Iewyshe and those whiche haue added vnto it the opinion of deserte and haue bounde them vppon the payne of deadlye synne yea and haue done worse for they haue defaced and blotted the benefytes of Iesus Christ causyng men by these meanes to truste and to put the hope of theyr saluation in meates and dayes and in their workes where they oughte onelye to put it in Iesus Christ ¶ Of the sobrietie abstinence and honestye that is requyred of the Christians in their assembles in the Church T. ANd if that those men haue commytted a faulte on their parte oughte not we also on our syde to take good heede least that we takyng in hande to amend thys faulte shoulde fall into an other extremitye as many do euen at thys day D. You saye verye well for if we thinke the superstitious abstinences of the Papistes worthye of blame let vs not thynke to correcte them by gluttonye and dronkennesse and other dissolutions but let vs endeuoure oure selues to brynge them to a true sobrietie abstinence and Christian chastitie Wherefore at what soeuer tyme
others might by the readyng therof obtayne vnderstanding c. The Scripture is the power of God to saluatioÌ„ by it we knowe God and Christ by it we knowe our selues by it we are taught our duety toward our neyghbour by it we learn to obei our prince by it we know the true Prophet froÌ„ the false the Scriptures ar to be preferred before al the writings of men it is the touche stone wherby we ought to examine Ad Reginaâ— derecta fide the doctrines of men Cyril sayth it is necessary for vs that we folow the holy Scriptures not to swarue in anye thyng that is commaunded in them S. Ambrose vpon the. 1. Epistle to the Corinthes 4. chap. saith what soeuer is not receiued froÌ„ the handes of the Apostles is full of wickednes Cyprian in Sermon â— de lapsis And how dare they ordeyne and decree any thing without Christ whose hope and fayth vertue and glorye is whollye in hym Origine vpon Ezechiell Homili 7. lette vs folowe no man and if wee will folowe any wee haue Christe set foorth to vs to followe The actes of the Apostles are set forth vnto vs we know the doings of the Prophetes by the holy volumes that is a sounde exaÌ„ple to folow Theophilactus vpoÌ„ the Epistle to the Romains the last chap. sayth They whiche bryng any thyng beside the determinations and doctrine of the Apostles they bryng in offences heresies and dissensions Ireneus aduersus Valentini similiuÌ„ scripta lib. 2. cap. 56 â–ª Leane to the holy Scriptures which is the sure and vndoubted truth it is a sure stone wherwith to build when ye leaue this cleaue to any other doctrines c. S. Augustine in his prologue of his 3. boke of the trinitie sayth Obey not my writinges as thou wilte the Canonicall scriptures for what so euer thou shalt finde in theÌ„ that thou beleuest not the same beleue without douting but in myne if Authority of the wrytingâ— of the fathers thou finde any thing wherin thou art not persuaded thorowly beleue it not assuredly Againe in his 112. Epistle which he writeth to Paulm he speaketh to the like end IteÌ„ in his 2. boke of Baptisme against the Donatists 3. chap. he saith you alwayes alledge to vs the letters of CypriaÌ„ the sayinges of CypriaÌ„ why take you authoritie of CypriaÌ„ for your Scisme refuse his exaÌ„ple to trouble the church who is he that doth not well know that the Canonicall scriptures as wel of the olde as of the new Testament are conteined within limites which ar certain that the same is to be preferred to the writings of al the Bishops yâ— haue ben hereto fore so that we may not in any thing doute or dispute of it to wit whether yâ— all yâ— therin is be true or no but it is lawfull to repreheÌ„d the writings of the Bishops which were writen before or which wer writen after the coÌ„firmation of the Canonical scriptures either by word c. Moreouer Origene vpoÌ„ the Prophet Ieremie in his 1. Howelie sayth we must needes call to witnesse the holy Scriptures for without theÌ„ no maÌ„ ought to credite our sayings or writings S. Hierom vpon s Mathew fayth That which is spokeÌ„ without the authoritie of the scriptures euen as it is spoken so may it be reiected conteÌ„ned vpon Ieremie 9. chap. sayth The error of fathers mothers of auÌ„cesters ought not to be folowed but the authoritie of the scriptures the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God whiche he teacheth vs c. And within fewe lynes after he sayth Assuredly thorowe ignorauÌ„ce of the law men shall receiue Antichrist for Christ c. S. CypriaÌ„ to Cecil in his 3. boke of his Epistles 3. Epistle saith yf you do that which I coÌ„mauÌ„de you I will not cal you my seruauÌ„tes but my frends And also that Christ ought onely to be herd the father hath borne witnes from heauen saying This is my welbeloued sonne in whom I am well pleased heare him wherfore if it be so the Christ onely ought to be herd then ought we not to looke what any man before vs hath thought good to be done but that which Christ who is Christ and not custom is to be followed before all hath done for we are not bouÌ„d to folow the custome of meÌ„ but the truth of God for so much as God sayth by his Prophet Esay in ye. 29. chap They honor me in vain teaching the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts doctrines of meÌ„ And again in the Gospel Mathew 15. you reiect the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God to establishe your own traditions And therfore deare brother if anye of our predecessors eyther through ignoraunce or simplicitye haue not obserued that which the Lord hath taught vs to do by his example or doctrine that same may be refused for the symplenes therof may through the mercies of the Lord be pardoned him c. And shortly after he sayth if we be the elders ministers of God Christ I fynd not that we ought to follow any but God Christ for somuch as he saith in the Gospel of Iohn chap. 8. I am the light of the world he that followeth me shal not walke in darcknes but shal haue the Diuiâ—â—â—um institut lib. 6. cap. 8 light of life LactaÌ„ti ' Firmian ' in his 6. boke of his godly institutioÌ„s 8. chap. sayth we ought not to follow meÌ„ but god The canons decrees of the Popes in the. 9. distinct ca. Noli cap. Ego cap. Negare dist 24 1. quest ca. Non affermam ' say thus Men must dwell vpon the holy Scriptures not vpon the sayings of men how holy soeuer they be c. S. Chrisostome vpoÌ„ S. Iohn sayth in the end of the. 16. homelie That meÌ„ of occupatioÌ„ do seeke striue to be excellent in their occupacions Gredi desire of corporall things and carelesnesse of spirituall things but the christiaÌ„ can not render reasoÌ„ of his religion if these handy occupations were not knowen it were but losse of money but the coÌ„tempt of the christiaÌ„ religioÌ„ carieth with it destruction of the soule yet we tranayle in so great miserye madnes that we bestow in theÌ„ all our studie care but the things which are most necessary for vs and are most sure fortes of our saluation we esteme not at all It is it that letteth the heathens froÌ„ acknowledging their errour and causeth theÌ„ to scoffe at vs for albeit they are grouÌ„ded onely vpoÌ„ lyes to do al that which they do to defend the ignominie of their doctrine we which serue the truth dare not once opeÌ„ our mouthes to defend that which is ours why should they not condemne our great imbecillitie haue vs in supicion to be crafty disceitful why should they not speake euil of Christ as of a lyar who by his fraud should haue abused the simplicitie of the multitude we are