seene he vvould but tell us vvhether he never supplicated to any for the furtherane therof But be it true that he did as he saith maie vve not justlie charge upon him the neglect of his dutie in that he entred into the Ministerie and took one lyving after another and that with subscription for ought is knovvne to the contrarie and yet held the matter in suspence a longe tyme resolued not to be as he afrervvard saith a meddler on either syd But to proced he giueth us tvvo reasons such as they be for his excuse The first is he rightly supposed as he saith his paines might be better bestowed in other parts of divinitie And vvhy soe doth he not affirm this parte to be a profitable and necessarie truth And hath not God commanded to his Ministers especially the studie as of everie parte of his will soe of this soe profitable necessarie a truth as concerneth the government of his Church the Ministers and Officers therof Yea can the Ministers more profitably bestowe their paines studie then in these pointes of divinitie that are moste doubted of controverted in the Church vvherof they are members Yea are they not bound to it when the cause soe standeth that they must subscribe to the one and that the moste suspected side even such as the moste and beste learned in the vvorld approve not Whether this suppositiō of his be right as he saith or no lett the vvorld judge But to give it the more credit he telleth us how he heard M. Greenham a zealous Preacher reprove yonge divines in a sermon at Cambridge c for setting up the roofe before they had layd the foundation Al as poore man vvhat succour is there under this mās shadovv Yf M. Greenham soe censured all yonge divines for studying the Discipline vvhereto can it be imputed but to some distempered passion or zeale vvithout judgment in him not to anie sound reason surely yf vve consider the matter vvell Was there not greater reason for him to reprove the Prelates for urginge yonge divines to subscribe to the Discipline in controversy and seeking resolution in it Have not yonge divines juste cause to studie it vvhen seing it controverted amongst manie great divines old and nevve they must notvvithstanding beforced to subscribe and thereby to approve that parte vvhich they know to be contrarie to the judgmēt of the greatest lights that these later ages have affoarded the Churches of God Is it not strange they can be contented men should naie will they not condemne them if they doe not subscribe to that as true and yet blame them yf they studie the same and examin whether it be true or no what is it else but vvith the blinde Papists to make ignorance the Mother of Devotion even to beleeve as the Church beleeveth and good enough yea what else is it but to controule the courses of our owne and all vniuersities in the world who require of yonge divines the publique defence of controversies of religion in open schooles assemblies of learned men and yet denie them the studie of these controversies that trouble our owne Church though they be deemed not to befoe deep and profound as other controuersies are but such as easynes it self if we maie beleeve M. Hooker hath onely made harde But the truth is that yonge divines indure no such censure in case they so studie these matters of discipline that they can learne to preach and dispute and raile against them in pulpitts and schooles naie they are the onely men that are judged to laie the best foundation pave the readiest waie for their owne preferment They onely which soe studie the same that they cannot but like and approue the truth of them they they I saie are the vuhappie mē that are ouerbusye in matters of discipline sett up the roofe before they have layd the foundation In his second reason he telleth us he could not see what good would come either to himself or to the Church of God by his paines taken in that controuersy For he conceyved the issue of his studie would be either the disgrace of his Ministerie amonge the forwarder sort if he resolued as no whe hath done or the ouerthrowe of his Ministerie if he should stand for that discipline Wherein besides his vncharitablenes renued mark how he discouereth one shame whilest he assaieth to cover another What else can it argue but that he walked not in the execution of his function with soe right a foote and syncere affection as he ought to have done had he made streight stepps to his pathes he would have respected not so much the grace of men how holie and forward in shew soeuer as the discharge of that office which God imposed on him is to be parformed without respect of parsons And is it any other but a vaine and ambitious minde soe to feare the displeasing of some and the disgrace of his Ministry with them as in that regard to forbeare of alonge tyme the scarching out of that divine truth which himself affirmeth to be both profitable necessarie Of as ill note is it that he refused soe to doe for seare leste in seing the truth professing it it would be the ouerthrowe of his Ministert can this be any better then Symonie and intrusion had not G. D. subscribed this sentence I could not have thought he had looked soe farre a squinte sought himself so much But obserue we surther hovv he vvrongeth those vvhom he calleth in a kind of disdeine the forwarder sort as though the Ministerie of those onely that dislik the present government vvere in grace vvith them the ministerie of all others vvere contemned dispised of them soe his vvords importe though vncharitablie For hovvever the forvvarder sort that is such as goe before others in vvelldoing vvould lik the better of those Ministers that approue of the present gouerment yf they vvere of judgment for the discipline of Christ yet so longe as they shevve themselves faithfull painefull in all other duties of their Ministerie and doe not sin of mallice in rayling against it all the vvorld seeth hovv they yeild due reverence vnto them their Ministerie M. D. having thus layd dovvne the causes of his suspence shevveth us the grounde of his resolution to studie it vvhere he saith that when of late yeares the cause was soe altered with the time that a necessitie was imposed on him to resolue professe on the one parte he entred on the studie therof parhaps with another mind then some others did therefore with other successe Wherof I can make no other construction but this an I leave his conscience to be examined by the searcher of hearts vvhether it be not the meaninge of these cloudy speaches that vvhen of late his conceited desyres other hopes of reformation in the begininge of his Magisties reigne did fayle him that he parceyved the case to
AN ANSVVERE TO A SERMON PREACHED THE 17 OF APRIL ANNO D. 1608 BY GEORGE DOWNAME DOCTOVR OF DIVINITIE AND INTITVLED A sermon defendinge the honorable function of Bishops wherein All his reasons brought to prove the honorable function of our L. Bishops to be of divine institution are answered and refuted Prov. 8.6.7 Giue eare for I vvill speake of excellent things the openinge of my lippes shall teach things that be right For my mouth shall speak the truthe my lippes abhorre wickednes Imprinted anno 1609. To the Christian reader CHRISTIAN reader when I had perused this sermon made by M. Downame in defence of the honorable function of Bbs as he saith sawe that it tended directly to prove that the Caling of our L. Bbs. as they now exercise it in the Church of England is not onely lavvfull good but also to be holden jure diuino not as an humane ordinance their ancient wonted tenure but by devine right as the verie ymediate ordinance of Christ I deemed it as needfull to be answered as any book our Opposites have at any time sett forth For how ever M. D. affirmeth the doctrine therein conteined to be not onely true but a profitable necessarie truth and that in the judgment of all men which are not partiall full of preiudice it is evident that it is a doctrine vtterlie false verie hurtfull obnoxius necessarie in deed to be confuted at no hand to be beleeued doctrine repugnant to the truth the word of the truth scripture of truth contrarie to the judgment and practyce of the prime Churches next after Christ his Apostles of all reformed Churches since the restablishinge of the gospell by the worthyes in these later (a) Wickliff Husse Luther Zuinglius c. times Against the doctrine of our ymediate forefathers some of whom were worthy Martyrs (b) Latimer Cramner c who in their submission to K. H. the 8. at the abolishing of the Popes authoritie out of England acknowledge with subscription (c) See the whole story in the acts monuments in the book called the Bbs. kook that the disparitie of Ministers and Lordly premacie of Bbs was but a politik device of the Fathers not any ordinance of Christ Iesus Reformat legum Ecclesiasticarum tit de divi nis officijs ca. 10. 11. and that the government of the Churche by the Minister and certeine Seniours or Eldes in everie parishe was the ancient discipline a doctrine I saie cleane contrary to the professed judgment of all our worthy writers (d) Whitakers Fulk c. who in their answeres to the papists that plead for their hierarchie with the same reasons that M. D. doth for his doe determine that the government our Bbs. exercise ouer other Ministers is iure humano by the positiue lawe of man onely the which if M. D. saith true is false and soe the Papists are lefte vnanswered yea a doctrine contrariant to the lawes of our land (e) S Edw. Cooke de jure Regis ecclesiastico fol. 8. which make it one parte of the Kinges jurisdiction to graunt to our Bbs. that ecclesiasticall povver they novv exercise ouer us also to tak it from them at his pleasure the which his Highnes taketh to himself giueth to all Kinges where he professeth (f) in his premonitiō before one of his last bookes that God hath lefte it to the libertie freewill of princes to alter the Church-gouerment at their pleasure Lastly it is a doctrine contrarying the doctrine of the Church of England professed even by the Bbs. themselues (g) Bb Iewell in his Apolog. defence Arch. Bb. whitegifte ag M. Cart. till of late daies when as men wearie to holde any longer in Capite of the Kinge they began to change their tenure into soccage and desyred to be free even from Knights service The newnes and strangnes of which doctrine notwithstandinge to use the words of Socrates (h) Plato in Apolog. Socratis against his accusers M. D. hath told his tale soe handsomely carried the matter so smothely likely confidently that every word he speaketh hath an appearance promis of truth though in truth he hath scarce uttered one word of truth By reason whereof I sawe much hurt was lik to come to the Church of God The papists would be much advantaged seing that Antichristian doctrine even after the renewing and revivinge of their ceremonies amongst us soe freely preached and published tending to the upholding of their hyerarchie from the Pope to the Apparitor aswell as ours his reasons being in deed the verie same with theirs as in the answere to them it shall appeare Others would be much scandalized those that were in love with their owne ease would easily crouch downe lik Isachars Asse and seeing that reste is good would readily without examination imbrace his doctrine soe pleasing to the fleshe as for others it would remoras obijcere ardentioribus cast blocks in their waie whose hearts were upright with God and ran well soe mak themst and at the gaze like the Corpses of Asael Amasa or retardare zelum make thē slack their pace at leste sanctorum spiritus in quietare disquiet the mindes of al the saincts to see a sermon of that consequence preached and published by a man of that nam note in the Church These things considered my hearts desyre and praier to God was that he would raise up some man like Moses to stand in the gapp by some short sound answere to make up the breach he had made and waytinge for the performance of it the newes was that work was vndertaken and in hand but answere and presse printer and concealer of the author were taken and imprissonned as dealers against the state Thus was my soule caste downe within me to see a truth soe profitable necessarie a truth suppressed I thought with my self but shall the cause lie there hath no man that courage for the truth as to sett upon that worke a freshe I sawe by experience that nothing but bands afflictions abode him especially who after this forewarninge should tak up the gant lett M. D. had throwne downe but knowing of none that was resolued of it I cast my counts and summed up my reckonings found that my life was not deare to me in this case nothing dismaied I sett downe my rest not to be bound onely but to die also for the name of the Lord the giving testimoney to this parte of the word of his grace With this resolution I sett upon this answere through the blessing of God who will mainteine his ovvne cause against all opposition of man vvhatsoeuer have here brought it to thy vievve in much weaknes with many wants I confesse my self being the leaste able of thousands in this land to manage this busynes yet with evidence sufficient to make it
manifest I doubt not that M. D. doctrine in this sermon is nothing lesse then true profitable necessarie as he affirmeth That his praeface is full of witty caluminations to make our cause odious our selues hatefull to the wourld that notwithstandinge his great boastinge his sermon hath in it no one sound syllable of argumēt to prove his cause disprove ours I have made no large discourses to teach over a nevve the discipline of Christ besides that it belongeth not to me to doe it at this tyme professing to ansvvere so farre onely as he opposeth it hath bin already layd dovvne sufficiently at large vvith proofes pregnant and demonstratiue those fevve of them vvhich M. D. in his sermon indeavoureth to infringe I have defended upheild in this ansvvere onely except that sometimes I giue him and the reader to vvitt as it vvere a taste vvhat might further be sayd therein According to his desyre my abintie I have distinctly applyed my ansvveres to his arguments in order Weigh them both vvell good reader compare the one vvith the other beleve nether further then evidence trulie produced leadeth the euery such Pythagoras as vvould be beleved upon his ovvne vvord vvithout authoritie good reason vvas longe since condemned (i) Ierom epist 152. famae nemo credit nisiinconsideratus quia sapiens non credit incerto (k) Tertull in Apolog c. 7. he is not vvise but inconsiderate that beleeveth flying and vncerteine speaches look well therefore to thy evidence before thou giue thy verdict Yf thou fyndest no sufficiency in his reasons to inforce thee to acknowledg his doctrine for true justly think with thy self it is not else where to be had all men know him to be a scholler he professeth he hath read the cheef treatisses on bothsydes thou hast here the pith substance of all that all of them can saie for themselues and against us The Lord open our eyes to see his truth sanctifye our hearts vnto the love of it And the same God the Lord himself of peace graunt us his peace alwaise by all meanes To him be praise for ever Amen The answere to his preface AS the dead flie Eccles 10.1 by falling into the oyntment of the Apoticarie taketh awaie the sweete smell thereof causeth it to putrify stink soe doth a man gratious and glorious for manie good parts by some his follies loose the sweet savour of that pretious ointement of his good name and maketh himself to stink in their nostrels who have most delighted in him What shall we saie then to M. Downame what smell is he lik to giue who in this his preface hath as many dead flies almost as sentences It is directed to the Christian reader the matter concerneth Christianitie the author a much respected Christian yet scarce one sentence theirof but soe vnchristianly written that had not G. D. subscribed it we could never have deemed M. D. the Pen-man of it It was expected of all that know him that though he writ of the same subject which other his predecessours have done yet as lead by another spirit he would have takē another course by his myld moderate dealing cōdemned them for sharpening their toungs to make their words cutt as the rasor pearse vnto the heart lik the prickings of the sword but he surpasseth at leste doth paralell soe doth justifie thē all In deed he covereth with another coveringe maketh another shewe then they have done but when his plaites shal be vnfolded and he vncovered I doubt not Christian reader but thou wilt readily ex animo subscribe my sentence Lett us therefore come to it All that he saith in this his preface maie well be referred to four heades The first is his perswasion grounded upon reason that whosoever read his sermon without prejudice cannot but beleeve and imbrace the doctrine therein taught as a truth profitable and necessarie cōteyned frō the begininge to the middest of page 4. The second is a description of the singuler god that will immediately followe upon the beleevinge and imbracing thereof from thence to middest of page 8. The third is a double exhortation drawne from the premisses from thence to the last sentence The fourth is his conclusion with a protestation His perswasion he laieth downe in the beginninge where he telleth us that he is not ignorant how vnpleasing his sermon will be to some who are forestalled with preiudicate opinions whom he could wish he were as sure to perswade as he hopeth by evidence of truth to cōvince and that if he maie intreate us to read it without preiudice and to iudge of it without partiallitie he doubteth not but that we will acknowledge with him that the doctrine therein conteyned is not onely true but also a profit able and necessarie truth The which in effect he repeateth againe in the latter end of this first head For answere wherevnto not to examine him what might be the reason of this complaint whether the corrupt measuring of other mens mindes by his owne affections as they now stande towards them their writings that differ from him or the remembrance of his former passions what time he himself was displeased with them that spake against him when he walked in another maie then now he doth or his feare being privie to the weaknes of his cause that some will too narrowly sifte and trie his sermon if they be not frighted from it by some such prefaces not to examin him I saie herof but leaving it to himself not to his pen but to his conscience to decid I muste tell him first that if the prejudice he chargeth upon others had not blinded his owne eyes he might well have seene how much he mistaketh the matter when he saith he is not ignorant how vnpleasing his sermon will be to some c. He cannot be ignorant that if he hath done the deed he boasteth of proved that which he intended therein none in this kingdome will more applaud this sermon gratulate him with his labours then those some whom he saith it wil be moste vnpleasing vnto considering how deare a price they have payd and stand yet indebted to paie for not being of his mind A farr greater I suppose then can be imagined he or any of his syd will ever disburse for it Purt case the case should alter shall we think he or they will abid suspension deprivation degradation excomunication imprissonment for this doctrine conteined in his sermon as some of us have done for the truth we holde Secondly that he dealeth not verie charitablie in chargeing all those that are not of his mind to be soe forestalled with preiudicate opinions that though by evidence of truth they be convinced yet they will not be perswaded What is this els but to proclaime them to be men 1 Thes 5.21 without conscience and care to try all things and keep that
be so altered that except men vvould approue the gouerment established the Corruptions theirin by subscribing conforming to them they must be turned out of their livings he then began to think himself of the beste clenliest vvaie to tak his leave of that cause and to be enterteined of the contrarie What that other minde should be which brought other successe I know not Yf he meaneth that discontented needynes sett him a work and plunged him with a desyre of yelding no merveil though God answered him after the immagination of his heart and gaue him leave to goe that would needs be gone but lett that other mind be farre frō us to studie with Yf he meaneth that single and sincere affection which setting a parte all wourldlie respects vnfeynedly desyreth to be informed in the truth see we not how vncharitablie he chargeth all his brethren that have in their studies resolued against the hierarchie that they studied not the cause with that single and syncere heart that he did But lett us heare him speak againe and tell us what mind it was to witt that he considered with himself first that it was schismaticall and damnable presumption to make separation from our Church which holdeth and professeth all substanciall pointes of divinitie as foundly as any Church in the world the primitiue Churches not excepted c. and wherein the meanes of salvation are ordinarily and plentifully to be had Secondly that he being in the Ministerie necessitie was laid upon him and woe vnto him if preached not the gospell And therefore studied these controversies as one who ment if he were not convicted with evidence of truth to be respondent or defendant resolving not to leave his place vnlesse by force of argument he were remoued wheras others being out of loue with our Church discipline in affection wholly alienated from our Church-gouerners studied these things as opponents and plaintiffs Wherein first he speaketh ydlely seing it is not materiall touching the truth whether he cam as a respondent or opponent to the studie of these controversies Everie respondent doth not defend the truth nether doth euery opponent oppugne it some that defend daube with vntempered morter plead for Baal and buyld up Babel others that oppone doe vvorthily in castinge dovvne by the vvord of God their vvalles and Castles Secondly seing that other minde where with he studied was not to leave his standing c. What do the he againe but charge others to be such fooles and sottes as to forsake their standings though by force of argument they be not convinced But what standing doth he meane was it the pastorall charge of that flock that now dependeth on him it seemeth no for he that lefte Lotheburie for it and would have lefte it for Wiggen in all likelihood will leave it for greater preferment What then is it the office of the Ministrie verely whatsoever he saith concerninge his purpose this his sermon sheweth he studied these controuersies as one who neuer mente to loose his standing for the truth of the discipline soe longe as by any colour he could clude the arguments brought for it As for his first reason that he held it schismaticall and damnable presumption to separate from our Church c. Not to insist upō his high peremptorie comparison which will hardlie be made good by him yf we consider who they are that arrogate the title of the Church of England the vncerteinty of the doctrine they holde altering and varyinge as it is expound dand interpreted at their pleasure especicially that sitt in the sea of Canterburie and the impugninge of diuerse parts of the truth by preaching and printinge the cheefe prelates winckinge yf not approving and in a sorte provyding it maie be done impune Nor yet to stand upon it that however in manie places the word is soundly and plentifully preached yet partly through the greate ecclipse lately made by the silencing of soe many preachers and putting out soe worthy lightes which lieth heavy upon many a soul partly through the dailie letting and holding in of many dombe idols and blinde guides togither with the pride ambition covetousnes voluptuousnes of others yf M. D. look about the feilds well he shall find the harvest great and the labourers few no springes of living water in manie places to refresh thirstie soules many little ones asking bread but have no Fathers to giue it thē others in stead their of giving stones serpent scorpions to eate of stinking puddles to drinke on in vvhich respects there cannot but be great cause of sorrovv grife to a godly heart Not to stand upon these things I saie but granting it to be even as he vvould have it the times of the primitiue Church excepted vvhat vvill follovv thereon either for his ovvne defence or our hurt nothing I trovv vnlesse he be of mind can mainteine it that it is schismaticall damnable presumption for a minister in his judgment to differ from those Churches vvhereof he is a member in any point or that to refuse subscription conformitie to them in everie thinge provided they holde professe all substanciall pointes of divinitie be to make separation from it M. D. I doubt not is parsvvaded the Churches of Scotland France and the lovve cuntries holde and professe all substanciall pointes of religion that in thē the meanes of salvation is ordinarily plentifully to be had vvhat if he vvere a member of any one of those Churches required by them to subscribe for truth that the gouerment of the Church cōmuni praesbyterorū consilio by the presbyterie is jure divino the gouerment by our L. Bbs. is not divine but humane iure positiuo maie it be thought he vvould count it schismaticall damnable presumption to be of another minde And if for refusing to subscribe in that manner vvhich if his sermō be true vvere a greate fault he should be putt frō his Ministerie out of the Church might it be sayd he made separatiō from it verely yf a mā must goe against his ovvne judgmēt mind therein because the Church vvherof he is a member professeth all the substanciall pointes of divinitie having in it the meanes of salvation holdeth soe vvhat doe vve else but make the Church or rather the gouernors thereof Popes Gods yea lifte thē up aboue all that is called God But further yf it be schismaticall damnable presumption to suffer our selves to be cutt of frō the execution of our Ministerie in the Church vvherof vve are members rather then against Consience to yeld to euery thinge it requireth of us vvhat is it in our Prelates by suspencion deprivation degradatiō to cutt of frō the Ministerie such as hold professe all the substanciall pointes of divinitie as soundly practyce them as carefully as the beste of them all none dispraised because they cannot nor vvill not force their consciences to
yeild to some other smaller matters as themselues count them yea by excomunication proceeding against thē as heathens publicanes to cutt them of frō the Church is this no presumption in them vvell vvhether they or vve be guilty of schisme lett Councels Fathers judge Schismaticus est qui a comunione seipsum suspendit c. he is a schismatik saith the councell of Calcedon (c) decret pr. 2 Caus 23. q. 5. cap. 42. which separateth himself from the comunion c. Schisma ab ecclesia separat schisme separateth from the Church saith Ierom. Schismatici sunt ijsdem vtentes sacramentis at dissentientes opinionibus seorsum celebrant conventus They are schismatikes saith Austin (e) de ve ra religs oneca 5. who though they use the same sacramētes still that the Church doth yet varying in opinions doeseparate from it holde meetings a parte by themselues the vvhich I hope M. D. vvill not charge upon us It vvere vvell he could cleare our opposites asvvell as vve can our selues of this crime they are the men if vve maie beleeve Austin that run vvithin that censure Quicunque invident bonis ve querant occasiones excludendieos aut degradandi vel crimina sua sic defendere parati sunt si abiecta velprodita fuerunt ut etiā conventiculorū segregationes vel ecclesiae perturbationes cogitant excitare iam schismatici sunt c. Whosoeuer saith he (f) Hipe rius de sacr stud non descrend p. 76. envye those that are good seek occasiōs to exclud degrad thē are soe ready to defend their faultes that rather then they will leave thē they will devyse how to raise up troubles in the Church dryve men from it into cunventicles and corners they are the schismatikes though they be not divided from the Church c. In his second reason he telleth us hovv he considered that being in the ministerie necessitie was laid upon him and a woe if he preached not the gospell Which consideration I vvishe more familiar to him others that seeme litle to regard it but doth he think it proper to him knovv he that others vvho have laboured in the ministerie as faithfully painfully as he have that testimony of loving lyving vvith their flocks depending upō thē though novv deprived (d) Ad Titum Ca. 3. of them vvhich he hath not have seriously considered the necessity layd upon them and notvvithstanding that woe knovv no such necessity as to redeeme the libertie of preaching vvith the bōdage of conscience and the doing of those things vvhich God forbiddeth But hovv can that necessity he upon us Doth not the Apostle there speake of them onely to vvhom the dispensation is committed but doe it not at all or not vvillinglie through their sloth and negligence We for our parts desyre nothing more vvillingly then to have againe that libertie of preaching vvhich once vve had vvherein vve shevved not our selves soe unvvillinge and negligent as manie of our opposites doe and from vvhich because some of us vvill not be bound vve are bounde in prisson as the Gatehouse at this daie can testifie And to ask M. D. a question yf he were injoyned to speak nothing of subscription which will never be justifyed whilest the world standeth to weare with his surplice and doctorall robes habit hood tippet preists gowne and cloak the graie Amice the rest of the induments ornaments of the popish preisthood to tak upon him a shaven crowne that honorable mark of preisthood which his good L. to whom he dedicateth his sermon as it is sayd would not refuse to crosse often to duck c. in the administration of the supper to kisse the pax to giue holy bread and sprinckle with holy water and to swallow manie such gnattes all which are no worse then the thinges required of us as we are ready to mainteine yf we maie have such an indifferent tryall as the modest offer mencioneth yf these things I saie were injoyned him would he think that such a necessitie is layd upon him to preach that he must yeld to the doing of them rather then suffer himself to be putt from his standinge Many in deed doe ingenuously confesse that in such a cause they would swallow many such guatts yea admitt and devoure all popish rites and ceremonies how filthy abhominable soever being washed with english water such a woe heth upon them if they preach not the gospell though in deed they preach verie seldome Is M. D. of theire mind too we for our paries have not so learned Christ but think rather that a necessitie is laid upon all men in such cases not to preach a woe not farr from them that will preach with such conditions and admitt none therevnto but with such provisoes especially when such a necessitie is layd upon us Is not that man blinde of his right eie think ye that can see a woe against them that suffer that which they cannot hinder themselues to be deprived of their ministerie rather then they will yeld to matters vnlawefull but no woe to them that who depriue us for such matters forbidd us to preach to the gentiles that they maie be saved To proceed M. D. having shewed with what mind he studied the controuersy telleth us in the next words that others studyed it being out of loue with our gouerment and gouernours as opponents plaintiffs that is with purpos to oppose not yeild to the truth how cleare soeuer it should appeare to them where was his Christian Charitie trow we when he wrote this Although we see no great cause in the gouernmēt by our L. Bbs. why we should be in love with it considering it is neither the best nor any plante at all of the Lords setting in his vynearde and therefore in due time to be supplanted by him And albeit we cannot much abound in harty affection towards the gouernours themselues who having gotten an inche of his Magistie doe take an elue and not onely reigne as Lords ouer their brethren but against all law depriue degrade suspend and excomunicate them many of whom are not much inferior in many graces to the best of them yet have we not bin so farr out of loue with the one nor our affectione soe farr estranged from the other as to studie these controuersies with no other mind but to oppose to the truth as M. D. calumniously suggesteth however by the study of them we fynd juste cause to be soe farre out of loue with them both as not to subscribe to the lawfullnes of the one or giue allowance to the oppressions of the other In the next place M. D. laieth downe the successe that followed upon our so studying of it as that we have sought knots in rushes streyned at euery gnatt picked soe manie quarrels against our Church ministerie that we have suffred our selues to be depriued the land to swarme even in our owne
learning nothing shal be more wellcome that to avouch make it good that the sayd episcopall calling is vnlavvfull were a labour worthy the traveil much desyred of the Bbs. All vvhich is done if not by the appointment commandment of the Bbs. themselues yet by their consent vvith their good allovvance their bookes being seene allovved some of them commended commanded to be published as they printe themselues in their first pages Wherein lett it be considered hovv injuriously vve are dealt vvith first they deny us all meanes to publish our answers taking from us the liberty of the presse punishing printer those whom they suspect for authors not sparing thē that will not bettaie thē whosoeuer considereth these dealings maie justly suspect the Bbs their Chapleines are combyned togither the one to sett snares drawe us into them the other to catch and crushe us maie I not saie to them as Ierom (e) Hieron August Tom. 2. once sayd why are we blamed for writinge is the fault in us or in your selues that provoke us are we not compelled to defend our selues in our just proceedings you have brought us to a fayre passe yf we holde our peace you holde us guilty yf we answere we are judged enemyes as Ierom was punished for answering as Ietō was not A hard condition of each syd but of the two we will choose the easyer rather then by silence to betraye the truth by juste apologie what euer it coste us to mainteine it yf you will have us to desiste from answeringe doe not you propound against us laye you asyde your swords we will soone laie by our targetts otherwise yf though you first provok us to speak and then punish us know you it is not the feare of punishment that shall fright us the truth which is the life of our life is more deare vnto us Thus much for his desyre or challenge his conditions followe and they are two In the first he requireth that we distinctly apply our answeres to euery of his arguments in order with proofs pregnant and demonstratyve Which I acknowledge but reason and had he dealt soe with us in his sermon we should have giuen him no answere but his carrying awaie the matter in tryvmph with discourses guesses fancies counterfeit writers wittnesses borne out of oue time not old enough by 2 or 3 hundred yeares some of them to giue wittnes to his cause his forced interpretations of scriptures and Fathers devysed of purpos and vvith great streme of vvit to putt by the truth his equiuocations frivolous and loose collections vvherof vve have good store in his sermon as their answere shall shevve none of vvhich vvill beare a syllogisme nor abyd the hammering vpon the right anvyle these courses I saye can vve not allovv for proofes pregnant and demonstratyve As for this ansvvere I referre it to the Reader to judge vvhether the demonstrations therein be not sound the proofes pregnant and the arguments strongely grounded upon the scripture vvith plaine interpretations such as have consent not of some fevve olde and nevve vvriters onely but almost of all divines sound and orthodoxall in all substanciall points of religion yea admirable for their vvritings in questions tvvixt us and the papists Diuerse of vvhose ansvveres are applyed to M. D reasons vvhich he borrovved of the papists and therefore not easely to be replyed to by him nor departed from by us In his second Condition he requireth more Christian and modest dealing thē in that book called the Christian modest offer which faith he notwithstanding that title is full of odious Censures proud scornefull speaches vnchristiā immodest provocations great bitternes gall c. Yf it should be soe which nether hath he shewed nor can I acknowledge yet lett the Christian reader compare that their book with this his preface and I dout not but he will saie turpe est doctori c. it is a foul fault in a teacher to be deeplier guilty of the fault him self then the partie he blameth I for my parte when I read it thought of the Philosophers (f) Diog. Laert in Diogene censuring and checking of such as offred sacrifyce for health and at their very sacrifycing did banquet riotously against health of our regrators who have double waites balances some for buying some for selling The Lord giue us more charitie in our hearts then onely to upbrayd others with the want of it not feel our owne want in the practyce Thus are we come to his promisse that he will acknowledge his error the which if it be aswell performed as promysed we maie saie to him as Cyprian to Cornelius though he missed of the first degree of happines which is not to offend yet it shal be well with him that he hath mett with the second vz. having don-amisse to acknowledge it And shal be gladd to acknowledge him for none of those who convinced of error blush not to saye haud scio an ista verasunt fortassis non multum absunt a veris sed tamen libet ire contra It maie be it is not vntrue that you saie but yet I lik not to follovv it I must goe against it And to take M. D. by the hand yf this answere satisfy him not but shall seeme too light in comparison of his sermon lett him laye open the vanitie bring the insufficiencie therof to light I dare promis in the name of the reste we will as Ierom sayd to Ctesiphon rather revoak our errors then persiste in a wronge sentence And thus are we come to his 4. laste head to wit the conclusion with protestation which is that what he hath deliuered either in his preface or sermon is that which in his conscience he is verely perswaded to be the truth Wherevnto what shall I saie I would rather have thought he had this once done that which many others have often done before him from the doing whereof the Fathers as Ierom (g) Jerō Apol pro lib. contra Iovin Cap 4. noteth thēselues in the heate of their contentions were not alwaise free non quod sentiunt sed quod necesse est dicunt aduersus ea quae dicunt gentiles that he had spoken not what in his conscience he thought to be the truth but quod necesse est dicere contra fratres that which the cause he vndertooke necessarily drew him to speake against his brethren but seing in charitie which beleeueth all things I must herein credit him I have no more to saye but that his conscience is blind or was a sleep when he wrote this sermon vvherein are contradictories both which cannot be true And soe with the lik protestation commendation of him to the grace of God I end with the words of Cypriā to Florentius (h) lib. 4 epist 9. habes tu literas meas ego tuas in die judicij ante tribunal Christi vtraeque recitabuntur I have your vvritings both sermon preface you have my answeres both according to the perswasion of our consciences both to be recited before the tribunall of Christe The Lord grant that knowing that terror of the Lord we soe perswad men as we maie approve our selues to God the consciences of his Children Amen FINIS Errata in the Preface p. 3. l. 19 read a doctrine p 4. in marg book p. 11. l. 29. good that ibid. l. 30. the middest p. 12. l. 17. way then p 13 l. 15 that we p. 17. l. 22. after controuersy adde then yong Divines for studieng that controversy p. 20. l. 19 if he p 28. l 10. upon any other occasion ibid. l. 14. very case p. 29. l. 26. mā p. 30. l. 2. deprivations degradations p. 31. l. 10. amongst us p. 32 l. 22. angustas rimulas p. 36. l. 20 loadeth p. 37. l. 9 put Lindwood in marg ibid. l. 20. heavier p. 39 l. 6. knew not p. 43. l. 20 fall p 45. l. 2 velle ibid. l in marg Baronius p. 46. l. 26. at p. 48. l. 4. first branch p 49. l 28. assertions p. 50. l. 28 confidence p. 51. l. ult not M D. p. 52. l. ult Drones p. 54. l. 25. in case In the rest of the book p. 3 l. 16 great p. 20 l. 19 because p. 35 l 12 presbyters ibid. 29 Elders p 65 l. 20 here cited p. 66 l 4.4.5.6 or ibid. 10 great cities p. 67 l. 7 testimony of writers ibid. l. 33 Thirdly D Fulck p 68 l. 1 Heron. ibid l. 20 of the M p 69 l 23 5 Sections ibid. 27 draining it p. 70 l. 1 holds ibid. l. 4 overweening p. 71 l. 22 could the p ibid. l. 32 I mistake ibid. l 34 in the end p. 72 l 32 I say ibid 34 I confes ib l. 35 I say p 75 l. 12 M. D. giveth p. 76 l 13 ouer Cities and D. p. 78 l. 3 if I ibid. l. 9 I trouble ib. l. 23 Apostles p. 79 l. 1 I may ib. l. 19 policy ib l. 24 primitive p. 80 l. 3 towards ib. l. 33 therefore which p 86 10 but to p 88 16 strongly p 97 l. 32 are 2 l nes to much p. 106 l 2 being lost p 111 l 27 diocesan p 115 l. 22 not to the ib. l. 28 so ordered p 117 l 7 93 p 119 l 12 95 p 124 l 1 Sedulius ib l 2 Episcopus ib l 5 Medina ib l 9 presbyters p 125 l ult in all the p 133 l 19 more cleanly p 135 l 13 this to the p 146 19 we heard p. 14 8 l 27 that word p 149 l 2 in office p 153 l 5 so it was p 15 ◠l 29 concluded p 160 l 21 consecration p 161 l 29 Basil where he was p. 16 21 23 shee ever
which is good yea to be such as against light cheke of heart are resolued to goe on in evill even sould to the defence of error obstinacie we are often thus charged in this preface but if he be not able to instance upon his owne knowledge in some of us thaz we have shewed our selues obstinate in some errors wherof we have bin convicted himself is the man that is forestalled with prejudice and in deed soe sick of this disease that it maie well be sayd to him medite cura teipsum hypocrite first caste the beame out of thyne owne eye For were he as sound therof as he would seeme to be he could never have charged as he doth in the next words all those that read his sermon doe not assent thereto without contradiction straitewaies acknowledging the doctrine therein conteined to be true yea a profitable and necessarie truth to read it with preiudice iudge of it with partiallity A verie hard condition layd upon the reader and an vncharitable taxe of thowsands in this lande Thirdly he boasteth as vainely of himself as he speaketh vncharitablie of others for wherevnto tend his words but to tell us that he is the man that hath dryven the naile to the head stroke all dead so farre excelling all that writte or spak before him in bringing light out of darknes that all those who wilfully shutt not their cies must needs acknowledge with him that for true which is in deed utterly false Shall we think M. D. writeth as he thinketh And that if the Discipline we stand for were not but the government by our Bbs. in stead therof under the crosse and he should be as others are deprived of all he hath for holding the same shall we thinke he would then make such a sermon and print it with such boasting that all must needs acknowledg it for truth yea for a profitable and necessarie truth or else they read it with prejudice and judge of it with partialitie M. D. must give us leave to doubt of it he cannot be ignorant that there are manie amongst us who savour the Bbs. calings soe farre as to allow them a place in the Church and therefore canot be charged with the prejudice and partiallity he speaketh of who yet nether doe nor are likely ever to acknowledg this his doctrine to be as he saith a profitable and necessarie truth His reason therefore wheron he groundeth his persuasion had need to be pregnant or else it is but a vaine presumption Let us heare it I the rather conceyve this hope saith he because the time hath bin when myne affection inclined by the reverent opinion I had worthily conceyved not onely of M. Calvin the author but also of M. Beza and manie other godly and learned men patrones and fautors of the pretended discipline made me suspend my iudgment till I had seriously entred into the studie thereof The which for a longe tyme I did forbeare c. Loe here his reason would one think that soe skillfull a workman could buylde soe stronge hope as not to doubt of it upon so weake a ground that because himself prejudiced by the reverent opinion he had of those worthy men once doubted till he had seriously entred into the study thereof therefore all others that reade his sermo without preiudice will forthwith and vvithout doubt acknovvledge the doctrine therein conteined to be true yea a profitable and necessarie truth Can a man lovve in his ovvne eies so highely esteeme of his ovvn learning as to think more to preveile by one little sermon then all his Predecessours of all degrees Arch. Bbs. Bbs. Deanes and Doctors by their large moste accurate and learned treatisses have bin able to doe to buyld such castles in the ayer had more become such a light head as M. G. P. then so grave advivine as M. G. D. hath semed to be And did the reuerent opinion of those godly learned men make him to suspend his judgment herein soe he saith soe also did the creditt of the first devysers somewhat amaze Bb. Bilson himself as he telleth us (b) in his preface to his perpet gou maie we beleve them did the reuerence and credit of those worthies soe farr preveile with such great men as these as to amaze the one and occasion the other of longe tyme to suspend his judgment what merveile then if the authoritie of the same men all soundly reformed Churches in the world doe incline us whom M. D. thinketh many waies inferior to himself to be of their judgment or as lestewyse to suspende it till we can see more pregnant proofes then have yet bin produced to the contrarie And surely did the Bbs. in their proceedings or M. D. in his writings use that moderation which their places and profession require they should deale much more favourablie with us then they doe seing if we erre are we alone have we not those godly and learned men of our syd by the reuerence of whom our Adversaries themselves have stood at a staie for a time And if M. D. proofes be not as he affirmeth pregnant and plentifull in deed shall we not doe well to be wel advysed before we forsake that cause which hath soe manie godly and learned patrones fautors as are sound admirably sound and orthodoxall in the substanciall points of religion as himself afterwards confesseth verily we cannot be soe partiall as to reuerence and admire them in all other pointes of doctrine and yet despise them in this of the discipline as M. D. and the men of his syd doe But in this sentence of his I charge him with slauder on the one syd suspect him of vntruth on the other He maketh M. Calvin the author of the discipline as Saravia Bb. Bilson D. Kinge others have done before him how slandereth he the cause of God soe making it the divice of man that Calvin should devise it thrust it upon the Church for Gods ordinance what a notorious evil chargeth he vpon that man whom he would seeme to reverence Oh that M. D. him self were not guiltie of that sin in this sermon teaching the gouernment by our L. Bbs. to be Gods ordinance which is in deed of mans devysinge M. Calvin was soe farr from being the devyser of the discipline we stand for that he vvas not so much as the first preacher and publisher of it no not in these later ages Wicliff Hus Luther Zuinglius others before him brought the same to light though not soe clearely and fully in all the partes thereof as shall in the ansvvere appeare That he suspended his judgment for along time maie justly be suspected of vntruth They that have knovvne him in times past from the time of his entrance into the Ministry till he became Doctor especially conceyved othervvise of him then of one that suspended his judgment in his cause and that not vvithout cause if his vvritings and note bookes vvere