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A43641 The Trimmer, his friendly debate with the Observator concerning uniformity rendition of charters, the House of Commons, not a house of courtiers, and twenty things more, not worth the rehearsal in a title page, though it be common policy of some authors or booksellers to wheedle men in to th' exchange of money for books, by putting more in the title-page, then you shall find in the book, and (like the Observator) more in the contents then in the chapter. Hickeringill, Edmund, 1631-1708. 1683 (1683) Wing H1830A; ESTC R10851 22,860 20

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not however otherwise have made so bold as to judg and censure what might be the cause of your Gout for I do not think the Poet a true Prophet when he said As Gout in Age from Pox in Youth proceeds As Wenching past then jealousie succeeds The worst Disease that Love and Wenching breeds CHAP. VI. Obs WEl then come on Trimmer since you are so bold as of your own mettal and accord thus to come into the Ring and into the Lists with me why dost thou not answer my Challenge Trim. You have made so many Challenges and sent them to the Trimmers publickly weekly and somtimes daily throwing down your Gage in every Coffee-House that I know not which of them I should first take up Obs I mean then my last bold Challenge to thee sent out Jan. 13. 1682. Answer me before we part What 's become of all the Actions against the late Lord Mayor for usurping upon the Rights of the City And how goes it with the new Sheriffs Did those of the last year quietly give up possession Did the Prisoners refuse to plead or no How were things carried upon the Scrutiny What became of Kid's Action against Capt. Broomer and the Jesuited Janizaries that beat up the Conventicle in Exchange-Alley And how came Coll. Quiney's business off Trim. Would you have distinct Answers to each Obs No that 's needless answer them by lump for they are all of a lump and therefore I have bound them up together Trim. And in gross gross enough Obs But what hast thou to say to them Trimmer or what darest thou say to them Trim. This is your way first to challenge a man but then to make all sure tye up his hands shall I have equal Liberty and fair play Obs God forbid else Justice and Honour pleads for you that you should have as much liberty to answer my Questions as I to propound them Trim. Then you will not first challenge me to a dispute and to make all sure of your side gagg me Obs I scorn it I am more a Gentleman and a Scholar Trim. Still for all this I am a little jealous of thee and fearful For thou hast got the weather-gage and therefore you insult so huff challenge and vapour knowing whoever encounters thee to Lee-ward his own Powder and smoak flashes in his face Obs I 'le wave the odds come on boldly Trim. It is not in your Power to stemm the Tide nor change the Wind nor to make it blow indifferent and with a side-wind equal to both sides and therefore I 'le only say what an awfe art thou to put the question How came the late Lord Mayor the new Sheriffs the Scrutiny Broomer the Jesuitical Janizaries and Quiney how came they off saist thou most insultingly when it is well known that their great Cause never yet came on never hitherto has been under legal consideration much less legal determination and sentence what rewards or punishments they merit concerns not a busie Observator and for my part I am bred to more modesty than to meddle with so matchless and stupenduous a matter that no English History can parallel it in times of Peace Prethee therefore let us leave it and them to legal Tryal and the Decision of the Laws And since you are so bold to ask questions give me leave to ask thee some Obs With all my heart it is but just and equal Trim. Then what deserve they that by confederacy commit a Rape upon a Virgin a Sacred Virgin a Vestal Obs An Halter every Mothers Son of them there 's a wise question who knows not that 'T is like the wit of a Trimmer Trim. What deserve they that commit a rape or attempt to commit a Rape upon a Widdow Obs Oh! ho I begin to understumble you E dad I will not tell you Trim. Neither tell I thee what they deserve that commit a Rape upon the Sacred Laws that Ravish mens rights and civil liberties with the Sword and offer violence to the Law Obs Why Who did If I knew of any such Monsters I would say hanging is too good for them for as the Romans who had made no Provision in Law against Parricide were at a loss for an equal punishment when a Villain once kill'd his Father the Author of his own life and being perswading themselves that the world could never droduce a Monster of such a Ghastly and unnatural size such a Prodigy and By-blow in nature even so to violate the Sacred Laws with force and a long Sword in time of Peace without declaring Hostility against the Laws from whom we have our life our beings our well-beings liberties protection estates and birthrights continued and derived to us is so prodigious a Crime that no punishment in this world can possibly equal it that a few men should by force which yet is most easy in quiet times cut the banks and boundaries of Laws and Societies is more prodigious from its cause and effects then from the Act it self any Boy any Erostratus may burn the Sacred Temple as he did that of Diana a goodly fabrick as any in the world the wonder is first in the cause that ever so much villany should enter into mortal breast and upon what temptation and secondly that so weak and contemptible a Creature could produce such dismal effects but what Erostratus's do you mean How do you apply this discourse Trim. It needs no application for I am only speaking of punishments due to those that commit a Rape upon Widdows or the Sacred Laws Obs Why Who did Trim. Who saies who Does your Conscience or any mans Conscience accuse him Obs Not in the least Trim. Then sit you merry Obs You cannot mean it of me or Quiney c. Trim. Why should you or any man else that is innocent ask such a frivilous question If I say he that commits a Rape deserves to be hang'd will you be offended Obs No I am not concern'd Trim. Then how impertinent art thou to say do you mean me or Quiney Especially since quite contrary instead of punishment for any Crime the late Lord Mayor new Sheriffs Broomer Jesuited Janizaries none but a friend durst have call'd them so Jesuited Janizaries and Quiney have had thanks for their pains Obs By some that were as deep in the dirt as they in the mire you would say Trim. What You do lie upon the catch do you If you do all the Company can testify that I never said that any body else gave them thanks or that they that did give them thanks had not cause to do so For even Asses know when they are overloaded unconscionably and more then they are able to bear and therefore beat them till your hearts ake and your Cudgels break they 'le not stir a foot when overburthen'd out of all reason and measure Obs I tell thee Trimmer since you seem shy and wary chary and fearful to discourse of that great business of the late Lord
the Ladder if Corporations shall have no Officers nor any to Elect Parliament-men or to make returns when they are Elected but only whom the Court shall approve nominate or at least confirm then the third estate and great estate of this Realm in the Money business especially shall not nay cannot be called longer the House of Commons but House of Courtiers Obs E dad Trimmer you are a perillous Trimmer I see and would hinder the Loyalty of Corporations from surrendring their old Charters for new ones and better with only this addition they shall hold their Freedoms and Liberties quamdiu se benè gesserint as long as they are good Boys and chuse none but whom the Court does approve Trim. We have a good and gracious King God grant he may overlive all the Men now in England and from the Policy and bounty of Kings and time out of mind of man to the contrary Liberties and Freedoms have been granted to Corporations and particularly that of chusing Burgesses in Burroughs so that no History can trace its original and beginning more than the head of Nile and all English-mens rights are so confirm'd by Magna Charta and many other Statutes that it has alwaies been accounted Treason to endeavour the alteration of the fundamental Laws and no doubt but Justice will in time find men out if they endeavour it lurk where they will short-sighted Projecters are they that would pull down Foundations and Corner-stones in hopes to save their own heads when it is the nearest way and shortest way they could take to Tyburn if they should run for a Wager Obs Why Who endeavours to take away Foundations Trim. All they that by any means whatsoever endeavour to make the House of Commons the House of Courtiers Why does his sacred Majesty of blessed memory so commend the constitution of our well-pois'd Government above all the nations of the world saying That to prevent Anarchy we have a King and House of Lords to poise and ballance the House of Commons to prevent Arbitrary Power and Tyranny we have a House of Lords and House of Commons and to prevent the worst of Tyrannies Aristocracy we have a King and House of Commons which if turned to a House of Courtiers where 's the poise where 's the Ballance Obs But we have a just and gracious King that will wrong no man Trim. And long may he live and reign but the King cannot see with his own Eyes every where but the Law is omniscient and omnipresent in England or should be so to decide all Causes and shelter good Subjects and punish the bad Obs Why Can any man be a bad Subject that is for the King or a good Subject that is against him Trim. No It is impossible that a good man can be against the King or a Rebel and also impossible that a bad man can be for the King Obs Why Are not all these Debauchees Whore-masters Cursers Drunkards Swearers and Blasphemers whom we call true Tory-Boys are not they I say for the King Trim. No no they are the worst Enemies that the Crown of England can possibly have not only by being open Enemies to God and consequently pulling down his Wrath Judgments and Indignation upon the Kingdom no small piece of Treachery but to gratifie their Lusts and Revenge are always with their hasty heady rash precipitate and sanguinary Councils disobliging Mankind as well as God Humanity as well as Divinity with their firm hardy and unalterable Determination of Execution Execution Obs Oh! Your humble Servant Trimmer you are not for putting the Laws in Execution against Nonconformists to Uniformity the Act for Uniformity Trim. No not except it be put in Execution against Tory-Nonconformists equally impartially indifferently and as severely as against Whigg-Nonconformists Obs E dad it is all one to me for I am for the Church of England and am not a Papist of the Church of Rome nor do I side with that Religion or so much as meddle with it Trim. We 'll do with you herein as with great Travellers when they tell things scarcely credible better believe it than go to see it is not worth the Privy-search though of the two it would be for your honour rather to be of the worst Religion than of none at all and rather ridicule all sober sense and the fundamental Laws as a well-meaning Papist and Zealot than if as a base Hireling only to provide for your Belly as you confess Obs E dad I am for Uniformity Trim. I do not concern my self nor does any wise or sober man concern himself who or what thou art for further than to be glad thou art not for his side for such as you only discredit the cause you would promote be it never so good Obs I am not for the good old Cause every body knows that Trim. All the better or rather more is the pity Obs Why so Trim. Because thou wouldst then be a Promoter Obs I hate and scorn the Office so inconsistent with a Gentleman and a Man of Honour Trim. I say thou art a Promoter Obs Bear witness I wish I had honest Nat. here or some of his Country-men to bear witness Trim. Call whom thou wilt I say again thou art a Promoter Obs Of what You mean Roguishly do you mean I am a Promoter of close assignations to bring things and things together Anglicè a Pimp But E dad a Pimp is ten times a better Trade and a safer Trade as well as an honester Trade you think than a Spy or Observator no man is hang'd for pimping but preferred many times the right way and advanc'd whereas commonly the Gallows takes the last view of a Spy or Observator A Promoter I scorn it Trim. I say again Thou art a Promoter Obs Of what Trim. Of the good Old Cause Obs I gave thee the Lye just now after another great example in Print and E dad again God forgive me I was just going to swear you lye Trim. By my truly you could not promote the good Old cause more if you would hang your self than by appearing against it though the favour merits no thanks from the Non-con's nor blame from the Con's because you meant it not Do men gather Grapes of Thorns Nor can they expect any good from an old weather-beaten Weather-cock an old any thing an old every thing but what is vertuous an old goatish and therefore goutish Observator That as you say Dec. 30. 1682. ' Because the Observator has got the Pox in his Bones therefore the Devil is in the Trimmers or the good old Cause you might have added why thou canst not live without teasing somthing or other And every Twinge in your Toe breeds a Maggot in your Head 'T is the very humour of the damn'd to revenge the fire in their own Tails upon any thing that 's next them Obs Those are my own words I taught you Satyr Trim. I durst not otherwise Nay I would