Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	great_a	know_v	matter_n	2,542	5	5.1820	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09739	Ane answer made the fourth day of Septembre a thousand fyue hundreth syxtie [and] one, by maister Theodore de Besza minister of the holie Euangile, in the presence of the quene mother, the king and quene of Nauarre, the princes of the blood royall, and of the priuie counseil, vnto that whiche the cardinall of Lorraine had replied against that whiche was propounded in the first iourney of their talking together, by the said de Besza in the name of the reformed churches. Together with an other short answer made by the said de Besza the 26 day of the said moneth vnto certein articles of replie set forth by the said cardinall	Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Baron, John.	1562 (1562)	STC 2000; ESTC S119255	24,857	90

the same Wherein we haue so followed y e worde of God that euery one as we iudge had occasion to be cōtented with oure answer But in stede to approue that whiche was spoken by vs we haue bene demāded by what power we minister y e word of God and the holie Sacramētes and besydes all that there was no thing spared that might make oure cause more odiouse We can not tell for what purpose this was set forward For first of all we came not hither to minister the worde of God nor the Sacramentes Wherefore there was no nede to ask vs by what authoritie we wold do it If it should be said that it is to cause vs rendre a reason of that whiche we haue done heretofore Ye must consider that oure company is of two maner of people the one serue for ministers without this realme ī places where their vocation is receiued of them it may not be demanded why they be ministers There is others that preache within this realme whome ye haue not called to cause them giue an accompt of that w c is past as touching their vocation but onelie to conferre with their doctrine or els it should be a beginning to make proces against them the whiche thīg Madame we are sure that ye haue not mynded If it be after a sorte to conferre vnder correction there should be therein no great purpose and y t could not serue but to cause vs entre into this matter out of the w c we could not depart without offending and angring my Lordes y e Prelates The whiche we haue not mynded nether will we giue occasion vnto any body to interrupt this holy work that is begonne And that it may be knowen y t we speake not without great cause alweys as two parties mete to entre into conference if the one aske the other by what vertue do you this The other will demande the lyke and so it wilbe very hard but of these reciproque demandes there will arise some dissention Therefore now leauing a part my Lordes the Prelates of this realme whome we will not offend let vs imagin vnto vs a busshop that demandeth of vs by what tytle preache ye and minister ye the Sacramente We will demande of him if he him self was chosen by the ancientes or elders of the Churche vnto the whiche he is appointed to be busshop if he was requyred by the people if there was informatiō before that taken of his lyfe and doctrine he wold say yea But the contrarie is well knowen and we remitte oureselues vnto the conscience of them that heare vs w c knowe how this goeth And if he wold say vnto vs ye are not ministers because ye haue not the imposition of handes we might answer him ye are no minister because that in youre institutiō or ordeinīg were omitted the substanciall pointes and that cōmanded by Gods lawe the whiche may not be dispensed with And if y e disputatiō grew more hote we should go further may vse such wordes ye haue but one of the three pointes requisit in the institution or ordeyning whiche is the imposition of handes if the wanting of that as ye esteme doeth depriue vs that we can not be ministers for want of the other two muche lesse ye shall be ministers then we The Councell of Calcidome whiche is one of the 4 generall Coūcelles ordeyned that that the institution of a priest should be voyde whiche haeth not bene deputed spicially vnto y e seruice of sōe Churche irrita sayeth he in iniuriam ordinantis With more strong reason may we say the same to the Busshop y t should dispute with vs when he wāteth y e two substāciall poī●es cōtrary to the ordināce of y e Apostle Yet se an other point whiche greueth vs greatly to speake and yet neuertheles be we constreyned thereunto that we may shew to all this company that if this disputation of the vocatiō were ones opened it should be greatly dangerouse if we should ask him who gaue him this imposition of handes he wold say that it was the Busshops by the authoritie y t was giuen vnto them And if we should ask him for how muche he boght that authoritie he will say that he haeth not boght it but that he haeth giuē so many thousād crounes that is to say I haue not boght the bread but the corne So that if ye were willīg to decide this question by the Councelles or canons of the Churche there shoulde an infinite nombre of Busshoppes and curates haue red faces And therefore Madame we are not willīg to ētre therein for feare to offēd any body nor to make any reuenge but onely to shew you Madame y t if we should briefly answer this is the desire that we haue not to offend any body And as touchīg the article of y e holy Supper of oure Lorde we wold not of late speak any further of it but hauing a respect to many of this cōpany whiche haue not bene accustomed to heare speak thereof any thing so forwardly but y t they wilbe easily offēded when they heare any thing that semeth new vnto them And therefore we had rather that they should heare the sayings of the an●ient doctors of the Churche th● ours considering y t my Lorde Cardinall of Lorrain haeth bound him self by his promes openly to īstruct vs in this article with the wordes of the doctors that wrote the firste fyve hundreth yeres so y t we were prepared to receiue the light if it had bene shewed vnto vs that whiche hitherto haeth bene hidde frome vs. Now to saitisfie vs and also a great part of Christendome in that that we desyred looked for there was propounded to vs the article of the holie Sacrament cut of and mingled i● the principale and moste necessarie pointes therewith it was said vnto vs signe this if not we will go no further And if we were presented prisoners vnto you to be accused yet should ye not say signe this if not I condemne you youre estate bindeth you to speake otherwayes and cōmandeth you to shew vs oure errors if we had any and willeth that ye should be sufficient to exhort in holsome doctrine them that haue nede of doctrine and that be redy to rendre a reasone of their faith by the Scriptures And althogh the manner to condemne vs is new yet the means whiche haue bene therein vsed be more strange as I shall shortly shew Madame we are here present for two prīcipale endes the one is to rēdre a reasone to God and to you to all the worlde of oure faith the other is to do seruice to God and to the King and to you in all possible meanes to appese and mittigate the troobles that be risen in the cause of religion If ye send vs away agaī without giuing vs some with wh●̄e we might charitably conferre there shalbe no

beawtie where there shall be neyther spot nor wrinckle it knoweth God but it is in a parte When I speake thus I beleue y t ye know the Apostles owne wordes For to be brief I confesse that without y e Churche there is no saluatiō because there is no lyfe but in Iesus Christe Iesus Christe imployeth not his liuelie vertue no where els but amongest his membres the vnion and assemblie whereof is called the Churche But the question is to know whether that in this world the Churche may erre and whether it be aboue the Scripture or els altogether subiect vnto the same Hereunto do I answer that it is a thing without all doubte that the particuler membres of the Churche may erre and do erre daylie bothe in doctrine and maners according vnto that whiche S. Paule sayeth that we knowe in a parte and S. Iohn that if we say y t we haue no sinne we deceiue oure selues But if any body will except out of this nombre the ancient doctors he shall perdonne vs if we beleue him not For it were easie for vs to gather many witnesses of fautes y t be foūd in the greatest and moste ancient of them let this be spoken sauing the reuerence due vnto their godlines and learning But we will not stay oure selues so muche here for the honnor that we heare vnto them and y t not without good cause as also because if I haue well vnderstand the sayeng of my Lorde Cardinall that he is no more of that mynde then we to deceiue them without exception This is it that we vnderstand of the membres of the Churche in particularitie the imperfection whereof doeth not stoppe but y t the Churche is formed and made thereof For by litle and litle do they go forwarde aswell in the knowledge of God as in the amendment of life But if the membres of the Churche be generally considered as it is destributed in diuers diocess and prouinces shall we say that it may ●rre Again if I remembre well my Lorde Cardinall was lately of that 〈…〉 specially the particuler Churches prouinciall Councelles may erre and haue often erred and surely that is ratified by so long an experience that no man of iudgemēt as I suppose can doubte thereof There resteth therefore to cōsider the hole Churche in an vniuersalitie but in what sorte For cōsidering it in the estimation of an vniuersall Councell first of all there is no greate apperance to iudge that all the vertue that the holy Goste employeth vpon y e Churche is restreyned to an certen nombre of Prelats the whiche be not alweys y e most learned nor y e best yea althogh they represent the hole multitude that sēdeth them For how often tymes will it come to passe that a simple man shall haue more vnderstanding at an instant then the moste wyse of an hole company And therefore was it said by Gerson y t more credit oght to be giuen to one priuate faithfull man then to an hole Coūcell and to the Pope if he haue better authoritie or reason And namely in y e great Councell of Nece by whome was it stopped that the law of single lyfe whiche afterwarde haeth broght so great filthynes into the Churche was not then established By one Paphnutius onely as sayeth the historie And moreouer whē was there euer assembled a Councell so generall but that a greate parte not onely of the moste wyse and moste holie men but also of the Prelates haue remayned be hinde And who may than assure but that they that were absent some tymes had greater reuelation then they that were present And besydes all this my Lordes how long is it a go that there reigned so horrible a cōfusiō in y e Churche and principally in the great estates dignities of Prelates in such sorte that the greatest desolation of the house of God is in that parte where it oght to be moste entier and best decked At the least it is a long tyme past that the exemples hereof haue appered that y e good Busshops haue sobbed sighed so grieuously therefore so euidently that we heare them at this day And that whiche S. Barnard wryteth of this mater in his book of consideration and in the 33 sermon on the Canticles and also in the sermon of the conuersion of S. Paule is noles notoriouse thē true Allas Lorde sayeth he they whche be sene to loue the first and chief places ī thy Churche and their to haue y e superioritie be first in a redynes to persecute thee They haue take● the Ark of Sion they haue vio●lently possessed the Castell and by power haue set fyre on th● hole Citie Let this be spoken m● Lordes not to iniurie any body bi● to shew that the chief vocations i● the Churche being of so long a tym● so confused and misreuled that it i● impossible to conclude in any wys● that the vniuersall Councelles tha● haue bene now of a long tyme ga●thered together of a multitude so e●● qualified haue bene so guyded by 〈◊〉 holy Spirit that they coulde no● erre An ancient Priest of whome I wolde make no mention in this cōpany if it were not that they alledg● his example in this mater did prophesie well althogh he was no thing worth But we reade none otherwyse but he erred yea both y t he his company in condemning Iesus Christ for it was the holy Goste y t propheseid in this behalf and not he whiche knew not what he said nor what he spoke being moued w t a Spirit very contrarious that is to say a deuilish Spirit because of malice he concluded to sic a Iesus Christe the Sonne of God And further if a generall Councell haeth receiued this priuiledge that they can not erre in y e rewle of their doctrine nor in y e forme of their maners we demand what tyme was this priuiledge dated For there was neuer but one God one Faith and one Churche Now that there was error in the Churche in the tyme of the olde Testamēt the Prophetes openlye beare witnes and y e histories shew good proof thereof All y e wache men sayeth Esay 56 ▪ chaptre be blind they know no thing they are all domme dogges ▪ And Ierem 6 chaptre Frome the Prophet to the priest they work all vntrueth And to the intēt y t this might not be restreyned vnto the life of particuler persons it is said in the 14 chaptre of the same Prophet they prophesie fals thinges and a lieng vision And in Isay the 29 chaptre The wisdome of the wyse shall perishe the vnderstāding of y e prudent shall vanishe away God shall shut vp the eyes of the Prophetes and of y e principalles And in Ezechiell the 7 chaptre The law shall perishe frome the Priest And to say the trueth who condemned y e Prophetes as Ieremias