better their Cause fave onely that it is naught It is truely a strange thing that men of so great abilities should be able to say no more for themselves 8. And since you M.S. and they are so able will you or they I pray condescend to some private meeting with some of the Presbyterians that it may be seen who hath the best Cause and whether or no all your deep learning and great skill in Sophistications wherein ye so excell can set any probable shew or face of reason upon your opinions which ye hold to be no lesse then Gods revealed Word M. S. Answer 3. Better a door opened to all sorts of erroneous opinions yea and to many other inconveniencies greater then this then that the guilt of any persecution or of any evill entreatings of the Saints and people of God should cleave unto the people or State A. S. this M. S. supposeth 1. That the Independents are the Saints 2. And that in case they be not tolerated in establishing publikely their Church Government and other Tenets in despight of Church and Parliament both in the Church and State that it is no lesse then the guilt of persecution against the Saints drawn upon the State 3. That it were better that all the Heresies of the World and worse should creep into the Church then that they should not be tolerated but chastised in case they trouble the peace of either Church or state I answer That all that M. S. here sayeth are damnable untruths and that it were better that all the Independents of this World were in America and that ten thousand times worse should befall them then that the good Name of God should be dishonoured by filthy Heresies And if the Independents had any fear of God before their eyes and loved not themselves better a great deal then Gods glory they would rather desire with Moses to be scrap't out of the Book of life or with Paul to be separated from Christ then that Christs Church should so suffer or Gods blessed Name be so dishonoured A. S. 2. Reason It is dangerous for the State it may breed Factions and Divisions betwixt all Persons of whatsoever relation betwixt the Magistrate and the Subject the Husband and the Wife the Father and the Son Brethren and Sisters the Master and the Servant when the one is of one Religion or Ecclesiasticall Government and the other of another as ye yea to your no very great advantage have experimented it severall times The Son may refuse to receive any Communion with the Father and the Brother with the Brother to the utter dissolution of all naturall civill and domesticall bonds of Societie And the reason of this may be because the one may Excommunicate the other as daily Experience testifies M. S. The shadows of the Mountains seem Men unto you Judg. 9.36 A. S. So said Zebul the servant of Abimelech the son of the Concubine who by a conspiracy with the Schichemites was made King and afterwards murthered his Brethren and yet they were men viz. Wicked Abimelech with his Army and no shadows of Mountains M. S. would have us live in security and would rather tolerate Socinianism Arminianism yea Iudaism and Mahumetanism then that his own Sect should not be tolerated Of so large a conscience is he A.S. It may breed Factions c. M.S. But A. S. his may may possibly not come in an Age no nor in many Generations and would he have so many Thousands of the deare People of God as do Apologize to eat their bread in darknesse And he said heretofore that May commeth but once a yeere A.S. It is subtilly argued M.S. of you with your May but it is too much that such a May come once a yeere or once in an Age and better were it ten thousand of you should perish then God be so offended for it is a Maxime in Divinity Quodvis malum Paenae etiam maximum eligendum potius quà m minimum malum Culpae nam quaevis Culpa pejor quavis Poenâ 2. But I pray you learne of me that as impossibile morale in morall matters such as this whereof we dispute is not that which never but which rarely or hardly falleth out so is possibile morale idem quod facilè which easily and oftentimes falleth out and not that falleth out but once in an Age And that it falleth out so very oft we may prove it by the Divisions in France the Netherlands Germany Poland Transilvania c. What I pray transported the Crown of Swede from the Nephew to the Vnkle What moved a King of Spaine to consent to his own Sons death What is the cause of so great a War betwixt the Turk and the Persian And finally what is the cause of this our present War but the favouring of Popery the Negotiations with Rome our Agents there Father Con and the Popes Nuncio here 2. Ye are not so many Thousands as ye brag of save in London and a few miles about it your Sect I think may easily be counted by Hundreds and as for the remoter parts of the Kingdome they are unknowne Creatures to them 3. If they be so deare to God they can never qua tales suffer for so wicked a cause as for all Licentiousnesse in Religion 4. They need not to suffer if they will not be turbulent but quiet and submit unto the Lawes of the Kingdome and such an Ecclesiasticall Government as in Gods mercy shall be established in the Church What a sawcinesse is this that they will be content with nothing unlesse in despight of Church and State they may doe what they will 5. As for his Rhetorications in telling me that I am bred of Rocks and suck'd the milk of Tygers All that shall not hinder me to maintaine that the Independents must be subject to Order and Authority both Civill and Ecclesiasticall as other men are or else suffer for their turbulent humour M. S. I would know of him whether he deemeth himselfe to be of another Religion then the Apologists If so Candorem tuum A.S. in that malignant expression c. A.S. As for my Religion you may know it M.S. It is that which is declared in the Confessions of the Churches of Scotland England the Netherlands France c. But as for yours Sed vos qui tandem quibus aut venistis ab eris Quovè tenetis iter that I know not and consequently whether I be of your Religion or not Ye will have no Confession of Faith or Discipline but what you may change Fidem diariam aut ad summum menstruam such as you may change with every Moon But to come more neere to the Point I pray you set forth a Confession of Faith in the name of all the Independent Churches and subscribe all of you that ye will stand to it and then I will answer your Question If ye will not here I will give you the best satisfaction I can and it is this viz.
I know not what M. S. meaneth by his strength here for he seemeth to say That it is strength of reason and then we deny the Antecedent for if they had any they should do well to shew it and not to vaunt of it 2. He is not confident to call it evident Ergo It is inevident and obscure Ergo It is uncertain if these reasons or strength be taken from Nature for in Nature all Reasons that are inevident are uncertain if he meaneth Reasons taken from divine Authority then he needed not to doubt in saying if not in evidence for all Arguments taken from divine Authority are inevident And the meanest Logicians know that Argumentum ab Authoritate ductum est inevidens inartificiale And Faith which is evermore inevident is such because that it is grounded upon Authority Heb. 11.1 M. S. 2. They i. e. Independents have a like if not a more considerable strength against that way of Government which they cannot submit unto A. S. Ergo What followeth They must be tolerated A. S. 1. Is this to argue to assume the Antecedent in both these Arguments so peremptoriously without any proof Truely a Midwife might have argued every jot as well I deny it and let the Reader judge of both our Reasons 2. I deny the Consequence for howbeit they had as considerable a strength of Reasons as the other way yet should not their way be admitted for if the other be already approved by Authority and the Independent way not yet admitted the old way which is as probable as theirs is not to be put away for yours For all Changes in Church and State are very dangerous unlesse some urgent necessity presse it 3. And there is something in their way which may easily overthrow all States and Churches wherein it may be admitted M. S. 3. They are by their fiercest Adversaries and Opposites themselves acknowledged ten times over for very pious godly and learned men Ergo They must be tolerated A. S. These men are almost mad in praising and in hearing of others praise their Piety Godlinesse and Learning as if this were the finis ultimus of this Sect Neither ever heard I of any Sect so foolish as this that is ever more trumpeting abroad its own praises We are holy we are pious we have the power of piety And all the World acknowledges us for holy men And there is none that have the power of piety or like to have it in any juncture of time to come as we have it These seem rather the Expressions of some distempered brain or at least of a man very vain then of any wise or godly Christian Wherefore instead of sparing of you and concealing some of these weaknesses of yours which I thought to have passed over in silence since I am put to it hear what I say to the Argument 1. I deny then the Consequence for howbeit some acknowledge you for such yet they are but very few who acknowledge you such 2. And yet it is but Tostimonium humanum which is onely a Topick or probable and no certain or necessary Argument 3. It is but the Testimony of one man viz. of A. S. whereof for any thing I know ye make little esteem 4. I deny That if A. S. commend you for some good Ergo Ye should be tolerated in your foolish and pernicious practises which cannot but in all morall probability overthrow the State and the Church of God There must onely be one Government admitted in the Church what ever it be whether yours ours or any other and that for fear of Divisions 2. As for the Antecedent indeed it was my judgement of Charity which suffereth long and is kinde envieth not vaunteth not it self as ye do is not puffed up as ye are that is not easily provoked thinketh not evil beareth all things beleeveth all things hopeth all things endureth all things 1 Cor. 13.4 5 7. But since that time having read M. S. his Book licenced doubtlessely by some Independent or some other disguised person so stuffed with these his impious Maximes against the Church the State and all Piety and with mine own ears heard some very dangerous Expressions of the Sectaries who passe under the name of Independents I have at least changed much or suspended my former judgement of them For Charity rejoyteth not in Iniquity but rejoyceth in the Truth I will not speak ill of your persons but if Master Edwards have such things under the Independents hands as his Book mentions as in Charity I am bound to beleeve he hath I am bound to think otherwayes then I have done of your Opinions And howbeit I had never heard or read any such things of the Independents yet it is too much for you Sir so proudly to insult upon a bare judgement of Charity Know you not that praises and great commendations of vertues are rather to shew what men should be then alwayes what they are Wise and godly men rest not so much upon other mens Testimonies as upon that of a good Conscience M. S. 4. Argument Independents have been at least the generality of them and so continue men of the most affectionate and with all the most effectuall activity and forwardnesse to promote the great cause of Religion Parliament and Kingdom Ergo Without all doubt they must be tolerated A. S. 1. It is a wonder how this man is not ashamed bringing so little reason for his Conclusion so to vaunt 2. This Antecedent is odious containing nothing else but a proud and impertinent comparison I should be sorry to go on upon this foolish way with him God knoweth who have most advanced the businesse or retarded it Truely it is the common speech of wise men that none but the Independent Faction retards Businesses in the Assembly 3. If the way to promote the businesse be to plead for impunity in favour of Gods Enemies of all Heretiques and Schismatiques this M. S. indeed then promoteth it as much as any man 4. As for the activity of your Faction ye are all but too active in those things wherein your pains were a great deal better spared M. S. his fifth Argument Independents are as deep in or if you will as much out of their Estates rateably for the support of this Cause as any other sort of men whatsoever Ergo They must be tolerated in their Religion and practises A. S. 1. And yet will he continue as the Pharisees did to publish with sound of Trumpet the Works of Supererogation of the Independent Sect. 2. Yea but what if many say that many of them have bettered their Estates by this War 3. I will not enter into contestation with this man about mens disbursements in this Cause for I never reckoned with them what was in their purses or how much they are now out of purse But it seemeth that M. S. hath calculated to a Farthing every mans Estate and what he hath laid out in this War If so I pray
Ecclesiasticall matters even no more then to the meanest of the people Truely they are much beholden to you for your great liberality And if so ride on in despite of King and Parliament to your beloved Conventicles Neither can I finde in these passages Deut. 7.5 and 12.2 3. or Deut. 13. any such thing viz. that it was the generality of the Church or Nation of the Iewes that were invested with it for God never invested the confused multitude in any judiciall or authoritative power CHAP. V. Wherein the same Conclusion is further proved by Reasons NOw after these Testimonies out of Holy Writ I bring these Reasons following grounded upon it and 1. That power which the Civill Magitrate had in the old Testament and is not abrogated in the New may yet continue in the New or the Civill Magistrate may have it in the New But the power to punish Hereticks and Schismaticks is a Power which the Civill Magistrate had in the Old Testament and is not abrogated in the New Testament Ergo the power to punish Hereticks and Schismaticks is a such a Power he may Civill Magistrate may have in the New and so in vertue of Power which the punish them The Major is certaine for there is no other true way to make it not to continue but only the abrogation As for the Minor the first part of it is certaine as appeareth by the Texts of Scripture already alleadged The second Part may easily be proved because only the Ceremoniall Law which contained the shadow of things to come was abrogated in the New Testament The Morall Law was not abrogated so farre forth as it is a Rule of obedience nor as it bindes us thereunto No more is the Politicall Law in quality of Politicall for by the same reason Christ should have over-thrown and abrogated all the Politicall Lawes and policies of the world But that is false for Christs Kingdome was not of this world and he submitteth himselfe unto the Politicall Law of the Jewes yea unto that of the Romans also established amongst the Jewes So did Paul and the Apostles who pleaded their causes before Heathen Magistrates I appeale unto Caesar saith Paul Non auferet mortalia qui regna dat Coelestia 2. Yea if the Jewes had received Christ for their Messias I doubt not but the Politicall Law of Moses in quality of Politicall should have continued amongst them and the Civill Magistrate amongst them should have punished Hereticks Schismaticks Idolaters c. in the New Testament as they did in the Old Neither is there any reason wherefore Christ or his Apostles should have hindred him by his Politicall power to maintaine the Christian Religion in the New Testament as before he did in the Old 3. And it may be further confirmed because the greater the favours be that the Civill Magistrate hath received of God in the New Testament then in the Old so much the greater obligation is laid upon him by his Power to maintaine Gods Cause and Religion 4. And the holier our Covenant is and the further it surpasses the Old so much the greater should the Civill Magistrates care be to maintaine it by his Civill Power 5. If it were not so the State of the Church in regard of the Civill Magistrate should be worse in the New then in the Old Testament for then he maintained it by his Civill Power and by the sword and now he doth it not nor yet hath the power to doe it 6. Is not this plaine Anabaptisme to approve the authority of the Civill Magistrate in the Old Testament and to reject it in the New for as the Anabaptists reject it wholly in the New Testament so doe the Independents in part yea in a great part viz. in that which concerneth the defence of the Church in punishing Hereticks Schismaticks Idolaters c. 7. He who should be a Nurse and a Tutor of the Church in the New Testament should defend her by all his power But Kings and Princes and good Magistrates should be such as we may see in all the Examples heretofore alleadged and in Pharaoh and Esay 1.49.22 where it is promised that Kings shall be Nurses of the Church 8. What if forraigne Princes would invade the Church of God may not godly Princes in such a case justly defend it and represse them by the sword wherefore then may they not doe the like to their owne Subjects who will trouble her peace and by so doing compell them to their duty 9. Doth not the Civill Magistrate this in New England wherefore then may he not doe it in Old England unlesse forsooth the Majestaticall presence of five or six Independent Ministers here be capable to dazle and discountenance him here whereas they receive all their lustre and influence from him there or that as Monkes and Friers yee plead pro immunitate Clericorum or that the ridiculous thunder-bolts of Master Goodwins pretended Judgements of God be capeable to dash it all in pieces here 10. If the Civill Magistrate have not a sufficient Power to punish Idolaters Hereticks and Schismaticks for Religion then all the Roman Lawes in the Code made against Hereticks and those of this Kingdome made against Iesuites Monkes and Priests must be unjust yea the Iudgements given out against them since this Parliament begun are unjust and if so you would doe well to tell them of it If we beleeve these American Christians the Parliaments Lawes are little lesse then tyrannicall 11. That for which all Princes are commended in Scripture that all good Princes should doe and for which they are discommended that should they not doe But for punishing of Idolaters Schismaticks Hereticks c. all Princes that did so in Scripture are commended and for sparing of them are discommended Ergo all good Princes should punish Hereticks c. and not spare them The Major is certaine the Minor is sufficiently proved by the Examples of all the good Kings of Juda and of Iehu 12. They are bound to punish all such as trouble the peace of the State Ergo they are likewise bound to punish such as trouble the peace of the Church for who ever troubleth the peace of the Christian Church troubleth also the peace of the State when the State is Christian 13. If the Civill Magistrate be not bound by his Office to punish Hereticks Schismaticks c. he is bound to tolerate them all and so to tolerate all Independents all Brownists Anabaptists Familists Socinians c. yea some who deny the Immortality of the Soule that hold a generall Resurrection of all Beasts as well as of men yea of all that ever have been since the Creation of the world or shall be to the day of Iudgement peradventure of Lice Flyes VVormes c. and so he shall doe well to Licence the Bookes of such subjects till Master Goodwin alias M. S. resute them for he findes no other remedy in Gods Word but to refute such Bookes If we beleeve this new
must know whether he doth well or ill at least by a particular judgement if in the second it is true that men are bound sometimes to sing a permissive obedience without their understanding because in so doing they doe nothing themselves but permit other men to doe as when there is a Minister called by the Church to preach it may be that some ordinary Mechanick will judge his Sermons to be too sublime more speculative then practicall happily also he will think them not methodicall in such a case the Mechanick hath no power to hinder the Preacher from preaching or preaching so he must obey in permitting and not opposing him in preaching for what is unsavory to his palate is savory to anothers 4. If this Argument hold it shall presse no lesse the Parliament then the Assembly for I put the case that the Assembly judge and that all the Assembly and Independents goe one way and the Parliament another which I trust in God shall never happen I frame the Argument thus If the meanest of men have not a calling to judge betwixt the Parliament and the Assembly then they must sing obedience and submission to the Parliament without their understanding But the Consequent is false Ergo And so your Independents shall neither obey Parliament nor Assembly And the Parliament would doe well to note this 5. I say more that sometimes Subjects are bound to obey their Rulers when they know not distinctly the equity of the Command for put the case a Prince undertake a Warre against his neiâ—â—bour-Prince every Cobler knoweth not the true cause of the Warre or 〈◊〉 it be just or not for he cannot penetrate into his Princes secret Counsells and yet if the Prince lay Assizes upon the people or presse Souldiers they must in all this obey howbeit they know not the secrets of his Counsels yea howbeit they suspect the Warre to be unjust they must obey for it is not expedient that every Independent Cobler be admitted into the Counsell of State or if that be not granted that presently he resist his Prince and raise a Rebellion in the Kingdome 6. I pray this man to tell me whether in New England amongst the Independents every man be not bound to obey what is judged in their Assemblies however he be of a contrary judgement 7. And whether it be Morally possible that every man be of the same judgment in things that are resolved or to be resolved in all Civill or Ecclesiasticall Assemblies And if not what can be the force of this Argument What here he addeth The glory of a Synod lyes not so much in the force of their Conclusions as of their premises is impertinent for the force of the premises and conclusions are not to be opposed one to the other but to be composed one to another for the conclusion followeth necessarily of its premisses Things are sufficiently discussed in the Assembly and their Conclusions evidently enough inferred out of their premisses but this is an incurable sicknesse in these men that they never thinke any Conclusion well inferred unlesse it be for themselves Obj. 22. He telleth us afterwards his judgement that the conclusions of the Assembly should not be swallowed without shewing c. which the Parliament and Assembly will both grant him Obj. 23. M. S. In his Sect. 12. he bringeth in quality of an Argument as it seemeth an Answer unto one of mine taken ab exemplo or a simili which I have answered and afterwards Sect. 16. he hath an Argument the summe whereof is this Obj. 24. Christ hath not divested himselfe nor made a delegation of such a directive power in matters of Religion as A. S. would sequester for the honour of the Presbyterie Ergo he will not acknowledge it A. S. Ansvv 1. I deny the Consequence for to acknowledge such a Ministeriall power as we grant unto the Ministers of the Assembly or our Presbyteries it is not needfull that Christ divest himselfe of it or make a delegation but a donation of it for Christ was never vested with such a Ministeriall and subordinate power for he is Lord and supreame Judge in the Church and therefore could never divest himselfe of it 2. If he meane the supreame power proper to Christ we neither desire him to beleeve nor beleeve we that Christ hath divested or could divest himselfe of it to give it to the Church for he kept to himselfe his owne supreame or Royall Power but gave unto his Ministers subalterne and Ministeriall power which derogateth no waies from his Royall power since this is subordinate unto that 3. However he takes it this Argument is captious and is nothing else but a plain petitio principii and proving the same thing by the same or a Conclusion by a Premisse as uncertaine as it selfe After this petty Argument he maketh his Testament resolving himselfe to dye a Martyr amongst good men whom he hath most highly offended and who professe that they compell no man to professe any truth much lesse untruth against the light of their Conscience how ridiculous a Martyr is this They professe that they may undergoe a voluntary exile for feare of persecution if you sir feare any such thing you may be gone according to the Principles of your owne Divinity And then he telleth us that he will allow any directive power of man so it be not compulsory unto men by any externall violence whether directly or indirectly to subscribe against their judgements and consciences to it A. S. Answ 1. Our Presbyteries attribute not to themselves any directive power that is compulsory unto men by externall violence to subscribe against their judgements 2. But if a few men differ in their judgements from all the rest of the Church or will needs bring in new Religions or novelties against the common Tenets of the Church then indeed they will cast them out of the Church or excommunicate them according to their demerits neither is it equitable that they abide in a Church or enjoy a Church consociation who will not submit unto her Iudgement and Discipline Neither will his Quinque Ecclesian Ministers admit unto or receive any man into their Church who differs in judgement from them or who will not submit unto their judgement But howbeit the Church compell you not to subscribe yet the Civill Magistrate after sufficient conviction may compell you to subscribe or to be gone for after sufficient conviction Morally it is and should be supposed that yee know the Truth or should know it or if yee know it not that nothing can have hindred you but your owne pertinaciousnesse which cannot excuse but rather now accuses and aggravates your sinne since one sinne formally and per se cannot excuse another Neither have our Churches ever gone further as may appeare by our Confessions of Faith and Covenants of the Churches of Scotland France the Netherlands Geneva c. M. S. hath some more poore Reasons in his 2. Chap. about the
Deut. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.13 14 20.23.33 34.37 Deut. 7.6 7 8 9 10. Deut. 10.12.15.21 Deut. 26.17 18 19. Deut. 28.9 10. Deut. 29.13 14 15. And Deut. 32. vers 8 9. c. When the most High divided to the Nations their Inheritance when he seperated the sons of Adam Iacob was the Lot of his Inheritance c. Amos 3.2 You onely have I known of all the Families of the Earth Deut. 39.29 Happy art thou O Israel who is like unto thee O People saved by the Lord the shield of thy help and who is the sword of thy Encellency 2. Because Independents define a Congregationall Church a number of men Covenanted together to participate of Gods Ordinances viz. the hearing of the Word the receiving of the Sacraments c. in some one place every Sabbath day But all the Church of the Jewes could not meet in one place in such a fashion as every man will easily grant Ergo 3. Because the great Sanedrim at Jerusalem judged of all Ecclesiasticall Causes throughout all the Kingdome 4. Because the People of God besides their Assemblyes in the Temple which was an holy place common to all their Nationall Church had their particular Conventions in particular Synagogues And however men may doubt of these Synagogues whether they were exinstituto divino or not and of the time when first they began yet can it not be denied but if they were not divinae institutionis they were at least divinae approbationis 1. For they are no where condemned in Scripture 2. But Christ and his Apostles approved them in that they went ordinarily to them disputed and expounded Scripture in them 3. And submitted themselves unto the order and Discipline established therein Answ But the Independents will say that the Nationall Church is abrogated in the New Testament Iust 1. Then it is their part to point us to the place in the New Testament where it is abrogated 2. It cannot be abrogated in the New Testament for those Ordinances only of the Old Testament are abrogated in the New that belonged unto the Ceremoniall Law But to have a Church or a Church Government more then Congregationall per se or considered in it selfe belong not to the Ceremoniall Law Ergo The Major is certaine I prove the Minor 1. For it might have been even in the State of Integrity without the Ceremoniall Law 2. And so indeed it was after the Fall before ever Moses his Ceremoniall Law was made 3. And that is not meerely Ceremoniall whereof we may evidently give naturall reason or that which is evidently grounded in naturall reason or at least in so far as evidently grounded in naturall reason since it is meerely Positive But supposing that there is a Church of God to have a Church or a Church Government more then Congregationall and Independent is evidently grounded in naturall reason or a thing where evidently we may give Naturall reason c. as wee shall see hereafter Ergo 3. Only those things of the Old Testament are abrogated by the New which were shadows of things to come viz. of Christ Reall or Mistycall But such a Church i. e. more then a Congregationall Independent Church was not a shadow of things to come in Christ c. Ergo The Major is certaine for the things commanded or approved in the Old Testament belonged either to the Morall or to the Ceremoniall or to the Judiciall Law As for the things of the first sort they are juris naturalis and consequently perpetuall which are not abrogated and of themselves were not shadows of things to come As for those of the Judiciall Law of themselves they are not shadows but belong unto Civill Government which Christ abrogated not since his Kingdom was not of this world and if the Jews had submitted themselves to Christ and had been freed from externall oppression it is probable that they should have enjoyed their own Government according to the Judiciall Law so far forth as Judiciall neither was it his aym to overthrow any worldly States Policies or Politicall Laws Christs Kingdom was and is compatible with all the Kingdoms and States of the world if they will not destroy it and he will let them reign over mens bodies and purses if they can let him reign over their Souls These that were commanded in the Ceremoniall Law were indeed shadows but such was not a Church more then Congregationall To all these Reasons some have answered That they would have it proved by Scriptures of the New Testament just 1. But wherefore prove they their opinion by the Old Testament if they will not permit us the same liberty 2. Our former Reasons have sufficiently proved That proofs taken from the Old Testament should hold in all that which is not abrogated in the New 3. If in this Subject they reject the Scriptures of the Old Testament as the Jews in all things that of the New there will be two Errors Diametrically opposite the one to the other theirs and the Jews But to give them more contentment we will prove it likewise by Texts of the New Testament and first from that of the Acts Chapters 1 2 4 and 5. 2. A Church compounded of 8120. is more then a Parishionall or Congregationall Independent Church But the Church of Jerusalem Acts 1.15 Acts 2.41 Acts 4.4 was a Church compounded of 8120. yea of more as appeareth by Acts 5.14 26. Ergo The Church of Jerusalem was more sure then a Parishionall or Congregationall Independent Church The Major Proposition is certain for the Independents define their Church which Christ in his Gospel hath instituted and to which he hath committed the Keyes of his Kingdom the Power of binding and loosing the Tables and Seales of the Covenant the Officers and Censures of his Church the Administration of his publike Worship and Ordinances Caetus a company of Beleevers meeting in one place every Lords day for the Administration of the Holy Ordinances of God to publike Edification The Way of the Church of Christ in New England The due Right of Presbyteries Chap. 1. Prop. 1. From hence I argue thus The Church whereunto cannot be applyed this Definition because of its multitude is more then an Independent Congregationall Church But a Church compounded of 8120 is a Church whereunto cannot be applyed this Definition c. Ergo. The Major is certain The Minor I prove it for 8120. could not meet together every Lords day in one House c. For in those times Christians had not yet any Temples but gathered together in particular Houses which could not receive them all 1. Because they were not ordinarily spacious as great and rich mens Houses for as the Apostle sayeth There are not many wise men after the flesh nor many mighty nor many noble called but the foolish weak base and despised things of the world 1 Cor. 1.26 27 28. 2. Howbeit they had been spacious as rich mens houses yet could they not have received such
be discussed in those Iudicatories 3. They have more in our way for they have our Confession of Faith and our Discipline written or in Print and may study it every day at home which is not usuall amongst the Independents who are never resolved neither in their Confession of Faith nor in their Government neither will they have any one common to all their Churches If private Christians desire more then this they may goe to the Universities 4. This Argument striketh at the Government of the State that of the Old Testament and at the proceedings of the Apostles Act. 15. and 16. M. S. his 6. Arg. in substance is that the Premisses whereupon Conclusions are grounded cannot be so well known and examined in Classes and Synods as in an Independent Congregation wherein the matter is passed Ergo it should be judged there and not in Classes Synods c. A. S. 1. This Argument as the rest concludes as well against the proceedings in Civill Iudicatories that of the Church of the Old Testament that at Antiochia and at Hierusalens as against the Presbyterian way 2. Amongst us the businesses are first examined before the Parochiall Presbytery or Session where all the Premisses may be as well tryed as in the Independent Congregation and in case of Appeale they may be carried to the Classe or Synod 3. What if the difference be betwixt two divers Churches or two persons of divers Churches and the premisses be Actions or Offences committed out of both the Churches then in such a case the businesse cannot be proved in any of the Churches what if the businesse need no proofe but be some scandalous Doctrinc M. S. addeth that for brevities sake he would not strengthen his Arguments as he might A. S. And in this we praise his prudence in publishing unto the world such frivolous Arguments yea that have not so much as any apparent probability in them Whether an Independent Government ought to be tolerated in this Kingdom TO the end we may proceed cleerly in this Question it is to be noted That by this Kingdom I mean the Kingdom of England wherein this Government hath never yet been received 2. It is to be noted That a Toleration is either positivè whereby Positively by Law Actuall Consent Approbation or otherwayes we receive or give way to any thing or negativè when neither by any Posicive Act Law Actuall Consent or Approbation we give way to any thing but onely actually we oppose it not make no Law against it dissent not reprove it not c. Again Both the one and the other is either of particular men or of Churches And again That of particular men either simply to enjoy their Consciences in not obliging them to be Actors in any thing against the light thereof or to give them leave freely to discourse upon all occasions with others concerning their Tenets yea though it were to seduce them 3. It it is again to be noted That by Independent Government I mean that whereby every particular Congregation is so governed that every Member thereof hath an hand in it and all the parts of it and so as not to acknowledge any Ecclesiasticall Power in this World above it The State of the Question then is Whether such Independents should have any Positive or Negative but principally a Positive Toleration not onely for their Persons but also for their Churches in this Kingdons wherein they are not yet admitted M. S. with the rest of his Sect the Brownists Anabaptists Antinomians Familists Arminians Servetists Socinians and other Sects in this Kingdom maintain the affirmative But the Orthodoxes stand for the negative The Reasons for the Orthodox Part may be these that follow 1. Such a Toleration cannot but open a door to all sorts of erroneous opinions M. S. denieth this Assumption for saith he by the same Reason he that receiveth one discreet Servant into his House must receive all Prince Ruperts Troops to rack and manger with him A. S. But M. S. understands not or takes upon him that he understands not my Argument for my meaning is not as he misconstrueth it That by the same Reason all other Sects must be admitted which is my fourth Reasonâ—â— a pari but that Independency being once received into the State it will per se and naturâ suâ of it self open a door to all sorts of erroneous Opinions which is an Argument not a pari as the other but a causâ ad effectum for if the Independent Churches acknowledge no superiour Ecclesiasticall Power and that the Civill Magistrate in good conscience cannot punish them then in case any or many of them fall into Heresie it will open a door to Heresie 2. M. S. answereth That a Toleration of Independency will be an effectuall means of chasing away of erroneous opinions A. S. This is but a strong imagination of M. S. which may as easily be denied by us upon our Reason here above alleadged as it is boldly asserted by him without any Reason at all As for that which he citeth out of my Book that I acknowledge them for men of Abilities sufficient enough to dispute their Opinions A. S. I have answered this sundry times 1. It is but a judgement of one man 2. But a judgement of Charity which howbeit it be Practically true yet oftentimes it proveth Speculatively false 3. It is not a certain but a probable judgement whereof he doth not well to brag so much 4. Howbeit they may not want Abilities to dispute probably yet may they want Abilities to demonstrate their opinions Theologically Yea neither all they nor ten thousand such as M.S. with them shall ever be able to bring any strong Argument for any one of their Tenets that they hold against us 5. If they have so great Abilities to dispute their opinions the Devill hath yet greater Cannot able Lawyers dispute very well a very ill Cause Know ye not what is said of a very able man Vbi benè nemo meliùs ubi malè nemo pejùs Truely ye dispute with such heat and ardency for the Independent learning and godlinesse that it seemeth almost the onely quarrell ye have against us whether ye be the learnedst and godliest men in this Kingdom or not You and they seem to maintain the affirmative at least concerning the last part of this Thesis if not both and scarcely see we any Book of Independency set forth wherein we see not great complaìnts that their Abilities are not high enough prized And what they say of their pretended piety all the World knoweth whereas your pretended Adversaries speak never a word but of the Cause unlesse they be provoked by the vain and exorbitant praises that ye ever and anon undeservedly bestow upon your selves 6. But how able soever you or they be yet for them it is cleer the Assembly hath divers times put them to a non-plus 7. And if they be so able what other reason can there be that they plead no
That not long since I heard one of the Ringleaders of the Independent Sect deliver this Doctrine in a Sermon at the Abby of Westminster viz. That to a saving knowledge of God it sufficeth not to know him in the Book of Nature or 2. as revealed in the holy Scriptures but that we must also know him as abstract from his Mercy and all his Attributes Now if this be a common Tenet of your Religion I must confesse I am none of yours My Reasons are 1. Because that if it be so rude people that know nothing of so refined Abstractions must be damned 2. Because to be saved it is most necessary to know God as concrete with his Mercy or as mercifull towards us in Christ 3. If I know God evermore under this refined abstraction from Mercy I must be damned 4. Because if I know God abstracted from his Mercy I know him out of Christ and out of the Gospel for God in Christ and in the Gospel is not abstract but concrete with Mercy 5. Because the knowledge of God as revealed in Scripture is sufficient to salvation Ergo it is not needfull to know him any otherwayes in this life 6. Because if I know God out of Scripture and abstract from Mercy it is a Knowledge without Faith for Faiths formall Object is God in Christ as revealed in Scripture and therefore it is a knowledge of God in Christ as revealed in Scripture and therefore there must be some saving knowledge of God without Faith 7. If a saving knowledge of God be of God as abstract from all his Attributes it must be a knowledge of God without any Simplicity and so of God as abstract from a pure Act. 8. As abstract from all his Perfections i.e. without all his Perfections 9. E. of God as abstract from his Goodnes and so as without his Goodnes 10. Of God as without Insinitie 11. Without Omnipresence 12. Without Immutability 13. Without Eternity 14. Without Life without Knowledge Science or Wisdome 15. Without any Will 16. Without any Love towards Mankind 17. Without Hatred of Sin or Sinners 18. Without Power or Omnipotencie 19. Without any Decree of Predestination or Reprobation 20. Without any Providence or care of his Creatures 21. Without Creation and so not as Creator For to know God as abstract from these Attributes is to know God as without them Now who dare say that to know God as abstract from all those Attributes or without them is a saving knowledge This is indeed an Independent saving knowledge independent on Gods Word on Christ on Faith and all Grace and consequently most gracelesse 23. To know God as abstract from all his Attributes is to know God as abstract from his Essence and so to know God as without himself or his own Essence or Being for Gods Attributes are not only eadem cum Essentid ut personae sed de Essentia de quidditativo ejus conceptu praedicatae ejus essentialiae and some of them quasi de specifico ejus conceptu from which God can no wayes be abstracted 24. If God be considered as abstract from all his Attributes it is no more a knowledge of God but some Idol of the Independents brains sicque habes meum candorem vestrum pariteratrorem Now let the Reader judge which of our two expressions is most Malignant M. S. his third Answer comes to this Grant them their desires i. e. A full liberty and they will bray no more then the wilde Asse doth when he hath Grasse A. S. 1. All Hereticks say as much yea the Devill would be glad to agree with God upon such terms 2. But God hath forbid the Church to tolerate you 3. In New England they of your Party will tolerate no Sects 4. And such a Toleration here cannot but breed all sorts of Divisions Whereas if there be one onely Discipline or Church Government established we shall have no Distractions at all 5. But how can I pray unriddle it me a Liberty granted to contest and quarrell one with another ever take away contestations and quarrells 6. If the Presbyterians be the cause of Divisions because they tolerate not you as you say so was Moses and Aaron for not tolerating Core Dathan and Abiron Your Simile of him who murthered the Duke of Burgundie will hold if it be applyed to your Sect otherwayes it is altogether impertinent and beside the present purpose M. S. his fourth Answer cometh to this That in case one Government were established it would breed as great or more Factions and Divisions then if a Toleration were granted A. S. This Argument concludeth as well against Moses in favour of Core Dathan and Abiron as against us for if Moses had granted such a Toleration to them and their Sect as the Independents are now Suitors for it would not have bred such Divisions And if the non-Toleration of it breed as great Divisions as the Toleration of it would have done what is the cause that this Toleration of your Sect breedeth so many injurious and calumnious Expressions against the Presbyterians What would ye not say and do had ye once gotten a Toleration To M. S. his fifth Answer That sundry persons of one Family in the City hear divers Ministers without any Division A.S. I answer That those Ministers are not of divers Sects or if they be without doubt it breedeth many Divisions and alienates their mindes one from another Neither can any Godly good man who is bound by duty to have a care of his Family but be grieved when he seeth his Children his Wife and Servants separated in affection from him and the Church wherein he serveth God and to eat at his Table in his House when they will not eat at the Lords Table with him in the House of God What ye say of a House of bondage if we were all under one Government it is most false For by the same Reason the People of God should have been in an House of bondage when they came out of Egypt and were brought into the Land of Canaan because that there they had but one Government So with you it must be an House of bondage in every State that hath but one sort of Civil Government I will not answer his vain vaunting in extolling his own Sect Onely I wonder that he is offended at us that we desire but one good Government what ever it be Is it ill to have but one good Government Wherefore does he plead for many ill Governments Wherefore will not those of New England admit many if it be so good If it be want of Mercy not to tolerate others how mercilesse were the Mercies of New England that would not tolerate Presbyterians no not in a corner of their Countrey when their Necks were put in the Pillories their Noses slitted their Ears cut and their persons imprisoned What M. S. sayeth of distractions of mindes under Episcopall Government it was not for want of a Toleration of all
will overthrow all other Government and addeth Faxit Deus A. S. 1. My words contain no prophesie but a consequence 2. I said not that the Independent Government which is no Government but aequivocè as canis coelestis is canis but that the toleration of Independent Government would overthrow all Government 3. In the 2. § of that Page 110. he acknowledgeth his mistake because of my following words And so this Order by necessary Consequence will breed all sort of disorder To this M.S. answereth 1. That it will not breed the disorder of oppressing Consciencious men for Conscience sake A. S. 1. All sort of disorder must not be taken pro singulis generum sed pro generibus singulorum 2. The Syncategorema all there signifies onely a great number of disorders 3. No more doth the Presbyterian Order oppresse Consciencious men or do any thing that you tell there 4. Howbeit it breed not those disorders which you mention there yet it breedeth sundry other disorders which we have already demonstrated 5. It oppresseth Consciencious men 1. In hindering them to get their Consciences fully satisfied in a higher Indicatory 2. By an absolute authority of seven or eight idle yea peradventure debauched Knaves who howbeit their Opinions were never so Hereticall and their practises never so tyrannicall will not submit but oppresse men better then themselves compell them to be gone from their Congregation and so undo them 3. In making them to attend peradventure a yeer or two before they will meet with other Churches to have their unjust Iudgement judged and reversed of which practises see sundry very strange Stories in Master Edwards Book who knoweth them intus in cute which one of their Sect writing in their favour not many dayes ago doth ingenuously confesse They make not indeed men to walk sundry miles for what they might have at home but they sundry times oppresse them at home and undo them for what they might have gotten within a few miles for the hundred part of the losse that they suffered at home whereof see Master Edwards his Antapologia 2. M. S. denieth that they may run from Church to Church But I prove it for if other Churches be Independent of all Authoritative Power they may admit them and howbeit they could not run from Church to Church yet could they set up a Church themselves compounded of seven or eight debauched Fellows like unto themselves as they do here in London M. S. scorneth to answer the rest of my Reasons amounting to the number of seven under pretext that I say that I omitted them but however I omit them the judicious Reader will do well to take notice of them M. S. in all this Chapter bringeth but one onely Text of Scripture for his Opinion and that not by way of Argument but of Answer to one of my Arguments but in the beginning of it he hath some ten frivolous Arguments grounded on the corrupt Reason of his own brains which I will here set down in order and answer them hoping through Gods Mercy that the very weaknesse of the Independents Reasons howbeit we brought no Reasons at all against them would evidently shew how sleight their Opinions and how fond their conceits are M. S. Suppose the Opinion maintained in the latter part of the second Chapter were waved and such a Coercive Power in matters of Religion as A. S. contends for allowed in the Magistrates hand yet that any man should plead for the drawing of his sword against those men c. And a little after that any I say on this side of malignancy should consult the sorrow trouble disgrace suppression ruine of men so holy so harmlesse of such eminent desert in the Cause of Religion State Kingdom me thinks should exceed the line of Humanity and be thought some Inspiration or Suggestion from the great Enemy of mankinde A. S. 1. This Discourse seemeth to imply two Arguments First Men very holy very harmlesse of very eminent deserts in the Cause of Religion State Kingdom should not receive sorrow trouble disgrace suppression or ruine But we the Independents are such Ergo. M. S. his second Argument They who plead for the drawing of the sword consult sorrow c. against so holy men c. have some Inspiration from the Devill or great Enemy of mankinde But A. S. pleads for the drawing of the sword c. Ergo. To the first Argument I answer 1. In generall That I am sorry that this M. S. will hazard the Independents honour in so weak an Argument for if I deny the Minor they will presently cry out that I offend their pretended Power of Piety their harmlessenesse c. And therefore not to offend them I will not say that they are not such Onely I say that whosoever pleads for a Toleration of all damnable and most detestable Hereticks such as deny the Trinity the Incarnation of the Son of God his Mediatorship who call him a Knave and an Impostor who died for us all as this M. S. doth here in his Book can neither be holy nor harmlesse 2. I deny the Major if it be taken absolutely without any distinction for if the Righteous turn from his righteousnesse and do the thing that is wicked he shall die therein Ezek. 33.28 So they are not to suffer for their harmlessenesse and eminent gifts but for something worse 3. I must say That the Minor smelleth somewhat the Pharisee who seemed just in his own eyes And to say nothing else we can produce you a great number of Independents and Independent Ministers no better then other mortall men To the second Argument I answer to the Major 1. They have some inspiration c. if they consult sorrow against them for their holinesse it is true But the Minor is false for I never pleaded any sorrow against them for their holinesse neither am I minded to plead any sorrow or the drawing of the sword against them but onely against such who are turbulent and trouble the Church and State who erect Churches in despite of the Parliament or overthrow the Kings the Parliaments and all Civill Magistrates Authority about the Church and Religion I will not answer unto this Independents Injuries when he calleth all those Malignants who plead for the Civill Magistrates Power as I do and men inspired by the Devill Onely this I say That if such men who curb so the Kings the Parliaments and all Civill Magistrates Authority in such a manner should be protected and maintained by them as they pretend they should be and vaunt they will be which yet I hope shall never be that turdus sibi malum cacat and that they are worthy to drink such as they brew M. S. The Independents have such a considerable strength if not of evidence yet of reason for what they practise and professe A. S. Ergo I know not what I think he would infer they should not suffer sorrow but be tolerated A. S. 1.
The Second Part of the DVPLY TO M. S. alias Two Brethren WHEREIN Are maintained The Kings Parliaments and all Civil Magistrates Authority about the Church Subordination of Ecclesiasticall Judicatories refuted the Independency of particular Congregations Licentiousnesse of wicked Conscience and Toleration of all sorts of most detestable Schismes Heresies and Religions as Idolatry Paganisme Turcisme Judaisme Arrianisme Brownisme Anabaptisme c. which M. S. maintain in their Book WITH A brief Epitome and Refutation of all the whole INDEPENDENT-Government Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament The most Reverend and Learned Divines of the Assembly And all the Protestant Churches in this Island and abroad By ADAM STEUART Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur JA CRANFORD London Printed for Iohn Field and are to be sold at his house upon Addle-hill neer Baynards-Castle 1644. TO THE Most High and Illustrious CHARLES LODOWIKE By the Grace of God Count Palatine of the Rhine Archidapifer and Prince Elector of the Sacred Empire Duke of Bavarta c. IT is ordinary with Writers in their Dedicatory Epistles highly to extoll and commend the Persons and Vertues of those to whom they Dedicate their Books for the most part little heeding whether the Praises they give them be just or unjust deserved or undeserved And if any one chance to ask the reason they usually answer That they Characterize and Paint them out much like Xenophon his Cyrus not altogether such as they are but as they should be As for my self I may safely and ingenuously say that I am very far from these mens courses or any thing at all that looketh that way My main aym hereby is rather to declare unto others then to Your Highnesse the true Motives and Reasons that induced me to Dedicate this Piece unto Your Highnesse The first and chiefest was for that the Subject of this Treatise is concerning the Reformation of Abuses and the Extirpation of Schisms and Heresies in the Church of God Now then Your Highnesse's most Illustrious Predecessors have been the first of all other Princes of Germany or else where that received the Reformed Religion in the greatest Puritie of it And not onely so but who from time to time have been the surest Asylum and Refuge to all the Saints of God that suffered for it yea and a Terrour also to all such as persecuted it And this the great Forces wherewith so potently they assisted the French as also the States of the Low-Countreys so oppressed by those who so unjustly have oppressed Your Highnesse manifesteth so abundantly that whoever knoweth it not must be born and bred with the Antipodes and be altogether a Stranger in the whole Christian World What also those Illustrious Princes of blessed Memory Your Father and Grand-Father did for the old Duke of Bouillion in all Christian Civill and Military Vertues the very Hero's of His time I my self and many others have bin Eye-witnesses And as for Your Princely Vertues I know that Your Highnesse taketh no pleasure to hear them so highly commended as they merit neither is my Pen able to do it and if I should attempt any such thing I am assured I should come as far short as he who would go about to Paint the Sun with a Coal Neverthelesse this I hold my self bound to say unto the World That I have heard sundry of the prime men of this Island both Noblemen and Ecclesiastiques yea those of the most Learned and Godly of them extoll very Highly Your Princely Vertues and it is no small praise and commendation to be praised and commended by those who themselves are so praise worthy and commendable To whom then should I rather Dedicate this Book that concerneth Reformation then to his Highnesse whose Illustrious Ancestors are so celebrated in all Histories for promoting of the blessed Work of Reformation And this as I said before God knoweth I say not to flatter Your Highnesse but to the end that Your Highnesse having so great and worthy Examples of so Heroick Vertues and those not far sought but found at home you may thereby be encouraged against all difficulties to go on in that Royall Way that they have scored out unto you Your Afflictions verily are great and such as I cannot think upon but with a bleeding heart and that no lesse for our selves then for Your Highnesse for alasse what a check and affront is this put upon all the Protestant Churches to see Him brought so low whose Predecessors put them so high even when they were at their lowest ebbe What a dishonour must it needs be to the three Kingdoms to see the Kings Majesties Nephew reduced to such an Estate What serveth our Alliance for What esteem can Forraign Nations make of us who esteem no more our own Blood Truely God hath put your greatest Enemies very low Some also who formerly have hindered that seasonable Assistance that we should have afforded you are now themselves on the suffering hand And who knoweth whether this be not one of the present quarrels God hath against us at this time Oh! that God would pitty us so far as that we could but once learn to pitty our selves then might His Majestie be a glorious King we most happy Subjects and You Right Illustrious Prince soon be restored to Your Ancient Soveraignties and Dominions so long and so unjustly usurped upon You by Yours ours and all Protestant Princes open and professed Enemy And now it seemeth that God hath already prepared the way if we could prepare our selves to enter into it We see how the Lord hath powred out his vengeance upon the House of Austria and raised up against it the French whose Predecessors stand so many wayes obliged to Your Highnesse's House and that of late memory yea in our own times We have seen heretofore what hath been the King of Denmarks zeal in this Cause and I doubt not but the States of the Low-Countreys would contribute as much as any other to put down their Immortall Enemy and to raise up again their old Confederate and dearest Friend If at this present when other Princes are in Arms one against another we could serve our selves of such an occasion to make a Peace here at home we might easily procure an happy Agreement amongst our Friends and Confederates abroad so we might make our selves no lesse considerable every where by such a Peace then now by our Distractions we are inconsiderable to all the World But this I leave and return to Your Highnesse In a word my aym in pleading here for a Reformation is to let all true Protestants know how this Dispute is due to Your Highnesse and how they stand all bound in Conscience to take to heart the Cause of such a Prince whose Ancestors were the first Reformed and truest Reformers and who Himself in the midst of so many Temptations so constantly continueth in their wayes If they should which God forbid forget so great
Services that those never sufficiently commended Princes of Your Illustrious House have done for the Cause of God they could not but prove very unthankfull both to God and to Your Highnesse And yet in such a case must not Your Highnesse for all that loose courage Your Cause is his Cause who is All-Sufficient And therefore Your Highnesse will do well to cast Your Self wholly upon him attending his good pleasure and I am assured that Your deliverance shall come in his good time which that he would be pleased to hasten So prayeth so hopeth so earnestly desireth he who is wholly resolved in all sincerity all his life long to remain Your Highnesse's most Humble most Obedient and most Faithfull Servant Adam Steuart How great is and wherein consisteth the Civill Magistrates power in matters Ecclesiasticall or concerning Religion CHAP. I. The State of the Question IT is an old trick of Hereticks and Schismaticks that when the Orthodox Churches oppose their novelties what they cannot get of the Church they travell to obtaine it at Court and therefore to arrive at their aymes they flatter the Princes of the earth and the Civill Magistrate in crying up the Civill and decrying the Ecclesiasticall Power and thus did the Arrians in former and the Arminians in latter times in whose foot-steps our Brethren the Independents at this present doe seem to tread and for this end they confound all things yea what ever is well said as may be seene by this their scratching and biting at my words travelling as they doe every where to confound what I have most clearely written Wherefore the better to shew this Authors fraud and guile and mine owne sincerity I will here set down what I said and what he opposeth Apol. Narr in speaking to the Parliament nameth it The Supreame Iudicatory severe Tribunall the most Sacred refuge and Asylum for mistaken and misjudged innocence A. S. The Parliament indeed is all this in Civill Causes but it pretends no directive power in matters of Religion by Teaching or Preaching or Iudgeing of controversies of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall unto the Church as in the Vocation Deposition and Suspension of Ministers in Ecclesiasticall Censures in Excommunication c. which are meerly spirituall but only an executive coercive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this Authority belongeth actually and in effect In actu exercito as they say jure in re to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato jure in rem till they become true Christians My Adversary here carpeth first at the word arrogate as if it were evermore taken in ill part and signified to assume proudly to a mans selfe A. Stewart But he might know that being a stranger and having lived the most part of my life abroad I am now and then constrained to take the words upon truâ—t yet for this word since he hath put me upon the perusall of my Dictionary I must tell him I finde no such thing as he saith there indeed I finde the words arrogant arrogantly and arrogancie to be taken as he such but not the word arrogate for it is turned in French S'arroger S'attribuer S'appropriâ—r and in Latine arrogo all which were taken in good part before ever Independency was in rerum natura but I will not let my selfe be caption fly drawne from the question by this mans Grammaticall sophistications If any thing were here amisse as there is nothing it will I hope be sufficient that I here declare that that was never my meaning I confesse they have more and better Language then I but I am content that my Reasons goe as farre beyond theirs as their Language beyond mine Afterwards in the same page he accuseth me of contradicting my selfe in following Propositions The Parliament has no directive Power by teaching Preaching c. The Parliament is wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church I answer and answered againe That every young boy that learnes his rudiments in Logick knowes that a Contradiction is only betwixt two Propositions which have the same Attributes which is not to be found here for the Attribute in the first is having no directive Power c. but in the second wise enough c. 2. Neither is it credible that every man who is wiâ—e enough to know what is convenient for the Church has a Directive Power therein in Preaching Teaching c. for the Independents have many amongst them in their Churches who have as much Learning three or foure daies before they be received to be members of their Church as three or foure daies after and yet before they were received members into their Church howsoever they knew well enough what was convenient for the Church had yet no Directive Power in it to teach c. 3. A little after viz. p. 34. § 2. this judicious Observator of Contradictions declareth ingeniously that he knoweth not what I meane by a Directive Power and yet here he telleth me that I contradicted my selfe but how is it possible that he should know that I contradicted my selfe in that that he himselfe understands not He knoweth not what things I pose and yet he findeth them opposed one to another I finde him here opposed to himselfe and in finding out a contradiction in my words he contradicteth himselfe and so taketh away this pretended contradiction Because he knoweth not what is a directive Power wherein he founds this imaginary contradiction he saith A. S. should befriend my intellect to tell me plainly and distinctly what he meaneth by a Directive Power in matters of Religion A. S. Wherefore if I cannot befriend your Will I will travell to befriend your Intellect not only in declaring you what is a Directive Power c. but also in expounding all the termes of this question learne therefore I pray you 1. That the Civill Magistrate qua talis is he who governeth the State qua talem I say qua talis and qua talem for it may fall out that he who is a Civill Magistrate to governe the State may also be chosen to governe the Church in quality of a Ruling Elder c. but that he doth not in quality of a Civill Magistrate for then he should not need to be chosen to be a Ruling Elder for in quality of a Civill Magistrate already he should have had that power 2. Learne that by the word Church I understand the Visible Militant Church both reall and representative in Church Officers viz. 1. In Sessions or Presbyteries 2. In Classes 3. In Provinciall and 4. In Nationall and 5. in Oecumenicall Synods but so that it must be taken sometimes for the reall Church alone as when we say The Presbytery ruleth the Church sometimes for the representative alone as when we say Tell the Church and evermore ratione subjectae materiae 3.