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A94178 A loyall subjects beliefe, expressed in a letter to Master Stephen Marshall, Minister of Finchingfield in Essex, from Edward Symmons a neighbour minister, occasioned by a conference betwixt them. With the answer to his objections for resisting the Kings personall will by force of armes. And, the allegation of some reasons why the authors conscience cannot concurre in this way of resistance with some of his brethren. Symmons, Edward. 1643 (1643) Wing S6345; Thomason E103_6; ESTC R212787 94,533 112

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and love peculiar to himselfe he loves not his father onely because he begat him or his mother because she bare him in her wombe and gave him sucke or his friend because beneficiall unto him or his Soveraigne because he doth protect him these are vulgar grounds and of meere naturalls yea of bruit creatures but his principall foundation is the Command of God and the apprehension of Gods love to himselfe and as Gods Love and Word is capable of no alteration no more is a Christians love and duty which is built upon it it is in its measure and degree like that constant and unfeigned yea though the Prince should change and omit what belongs to him yet a true Christian Subject changeth never nor dareth he to neglect the least tittle of his duty O sayes he Gods love to me in Jesus Christ hath kindled in my heart a love unto my Soveraigne set over me by himselfe Gods word in my soule is the root of my duty to my Prince therefore so long as God continues to love me so long will I continue an obedient Subject as nothing can separate Gods love from me neither life nor death nor Principalities nor Powers so nothing shall separate my heart from my King neither feares nor threatnings nor plunderings nor persecutions as nothing can nullifie Gods word Heaven and earth shall passe away before the least tittle of that shall perish so nothing can or shall alienate me from my Allegiance to my Prince but him will I Honour him will I love feare and obey actively or passively although he should account of me and deale with me as with an Enemy 6. We Honour God by rejoycing his Spirit and by being carefull not to greive the same after which manner also we must Honour the King our endeavours must be to glad his heart and our studies to make him chearfull that so he may govern us with comfort Heb. 13.17 and give up his account with joy which will be most for our advantage as the Apostle speaketh in another case Indeed crossenesse and perversnesse is a great wickednesse when exercised against any specially against a Prince yet even such a Person is sometime so afflicted When I speake of Peace saies King David then they make them ready to battaile such was their crossenesse Ps 120.7 in another place they dealt perversely with me without a cause Ps 119 78. indeed when ever men deale perversely with their Prince they do so without cause for there neither can nor ought to be any cause to move a man to break his duty to his Sovereigne or rather to his God who hath commanded his constant and loyall obedience It is not spoken in Scripture to the commendation of those vexatious Sonnes of Zerviah that they were too hard for David and so often greived his Spirit but every true David must meet with such men to discover him to the rest of his people to be a man after Gods owne Heart meeke wise and patient Theophilus Bishop of Alexandria as some write having got power with the Empresse did vex Ioh. Chrysostome to death by tormenting his Spirit and molesting of him who can thinke of that act without indignation it was reported of you know whom that he vexeda minister to death by his unjust and incessant troubling of him an horrid thing if it were true and worthy of a sharpe censure but I pray God that some of them that blaimed him have not since had a finger in such endeavours and against a more High and Sacred person omne occultum tandem revelabitur Thus reverend Sir by this glimpse you see what kind of Honour I believe is due unto a King and how the Subjects are to expresse the same and now Sir I instance not in every particular way as in paying tribute or the like which our Savior and Saint Paul commandeth because that will naturally follow upon that which hath been said And now Sir discern my faith in the whole case the grounds of it you may perceive I am one of those that conceive the Standard of Gods word to be the best rule to measure at a subjects duty by indeed I would have all men obey for Conscience sake Rom. 13.5 the great Apostle I am sure is of the same minde Sect. 8 And now I come to the second thing namely to shew how those objections are removeable which as I remember were opposed against my judgement of the unlawfulnesse to resist a King I then desired to maintaine and indeed do still believe that to whatsoever the King commands we must either yeild our active obedience or if against Conscience we must suffer or fly you added a fourth which I did not acknowledge and you called it defensive resistance And your position was this A defensive resistance against the Kings will or Personall commands when contrary to his legall is lawfull yea necessary To make good this position there was to prove the lawfulnesse alleadged the Example of the peoples resisting Saul in the behalfe of Ionathan of Davids strengthening himselfe against Saul of Davids purpose at Keilah if the men therof would have stood unto him of Vzziah the King his beeing resisted and thrust out of the temple by the Priests Arguments from reason also were produced or rather similitudes instead of Arguments which I suppose were to shew the necessity of it as of resisting a father or master commanding by unjust violence things unlawfull and unsutable to his fatherly or masterly relation And then the Oath or Covenant which the King takes or makes at his Coronation was alleadged as giving countenance to a defensive resistance on the Subjects part if the Prince doth make a breach thereof Lastly I was required to shew some Scripture oppugning this resistance which I then promised Sir If my memory doth not faile mee this was the summe to which according to my Conscience and weake ability I shall now more fully answer then I could in regard of your own or my precedeing labours it being the Lords day at night do then Intreating you to remember that as then so now we discourse of the matter onely as a case in Divinity 1. Concerning the Position the termes thereof and then of the matter therein The practice of some in this sinfull Nation doth at this present too too sufficiently expound what is to be understood by the terme of defensive resistance but I confesse their exposition is very new or els 't is figurative per 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quae vox est signans cuntraria dicto as war is called bellum quód minimé bellum so defensive resistance quod oppugnat magis To defend of old and properly was and is to keep of or to avoyd not to give blowes not to begin the assault but it inferres an Assault made a staying at home rather then a going abroad or a being driven from thence rather then a driveing it is not to
a people before there was a King he was ordained for their good and therefore is to serve them Answ So Esau was Iacobs elder Brother yet the elder was appointed to serve the younger and the whole world that great Kingdome was made before man yet made for his sake to serve him not he to serve that indeed a King is no more ordained for the peoples good then they are for his good they are each ordained for other good and both for Gods glory which is most advanced by peace and union so that 't is not Salus populi alone but 't is Salus Regis et populi that is suprema Lex and so highly to be regarded nor doth Salus populi consist in resisting or suppressing the King What saies Pilate the Heathen to them that called themselves Gods people shall I crucify your King q. d. what an unnaturall and unreasonable thing is it for Subjects to goe about to ruinate their own King if they had answered O 't is to save our selves Pilate would have laught them to scorne although indeed perhaps when people go about any such businesse 't is to save some of themselves whose black merits do make them suspicious of the Kings mercy but should they prevaile the effect would shew that the safety of the enemies would never countervaile to the Commonwealth the Kings dammage Some there be that thinke Salus populi to consist in Liberty and Li● qerty as they conceive is for every man to do what is right in his owne eyes be of what Religion he please commit Idolatrie and Adultery rob plunder and take away the goods of others be both his owne Carver and his owne Judge and thus it was of old when there was no King in Israel ergo But Sir though some upon a taste of this kinde of Liberty which hath of late been permitted to them cry out O these be the blessed dayes these be the happy times yet you and I cannot but conceive that they are the beginning of sorrowes wil end in bitternesse we know this Liberty is every way destructive and rather Beast-like then Humane whereas this should be Christian which consists cheifly parendo Gods service is a perfect freedome and there was a King set up in Israel to remedy those abuses And thus Sir you see that I doe not apprehend from your reasons or arguments any necessity of such resistance in the case Now concerning the Oath or Covenant which the King takes or makes at his Coronation how that doth countenance a defensive resistance Sect. 12 on the Subjects part if the Prince shall make a breach thereof we shall a little consider First Sir let me minde you of what you yeilded namely that the King is King before his Coronation indeed his Crowne is but a note or ensigne of his Kingly dignity he hath a right unto and is in actuall possession of his Inheritance given him of God before he makes his Covenant on the Coronation day which cannot therefore be supposed to be conditionall with the people nor be thought that he by it from them receives his office with a quandiu bene se gesserit so that of necessity he must forfeit his power unto them if he breakes his promise We read that supreme Princes in ancient times as they were free from Lawes so from Oathes the Romane Empire was not wont to sweare unto the Senate or to the people but they both did take an Oath to him Those Oathes Covenants the Scripture mentions in the Story of the Kings of Iudah were not made or taken by the King if we marke them but by the people to their King or by the King and people together unto the Lord after some generall defection from his worship and service no this custome of a Kings swearing is the Infant of later times it was borne ad faciendum fidem peoples distrust was the parent of it evill suspicion as being for the most part the root of Rebellion was ever counted ominous and therefore to prevent a sinister opinion of a new King it was thought meet by such Princes upon their solemne Coronation day to enter into a visible Covenant with God in the presence of their people And I beleive the custome 's good as a meane by Gods grace to keepe a Prince his will within the bounds of Conscience but in that it was not so ab initio it plainly shewes that a Kings entrance into his Government doth no whit depend upon his Covenant nor doth this Covenant at all diminish his supremacy or derogate from the absolutenesse of his Power no if it were made unto his people as it is not I do not see how of necessity it must make him any way liable to their subjection God himself was pleased ad faciendam fidem to swear to Abraham and to David yet did hee not thereby any way make himselfe their inferiour But indeed the Kings Oath and Covenant is onely unto God 't is His Oath of Allegiance to the Lord and in effect to this purpose that he will discharge the trust imposed upon him by the God of Heaven and earth of whom he holds his Kingdome and this is made visibly in the presence of the people that they might not distrust the faithfulnesse or integrity of that Person to whom is committed by him who knowes all hearts so great a Power And sure as 't is a heavy sinne in a Prince to falsify his Covenant with the Majestie of Heaven so 't is no small sinne in Subjects to distrust a Prince his fidelity upon slight grounds or to expose him by any means to the generall suspicions of his people But now Sir what warrant have the Subjects from hence for their resistance if the King breakes his Oath to God is not God able to revenge his owne cause hath hee not alwayes done it observe stories and see if you can name one example of any King though never so great that brake Covenant with God whom God hath not remembred and is his arme shortned or is not his Justice still the same Ob. O yes say some we have a warrant to helpe the Lord against the mighty Meroz was cursed because she did not Answ Meroz indeed was cursed with a bitter curse and did deserve it because she came not to helpe her King her Captain or supreme Judge whom God had set over her on whose side the Lord was against his Enemies that rose up or went out against him that were so many and so mighty but she is not cursed because she did not resist her owne Governour The breach of our Oath of Alleagiance unto the King is onely an offence against the King and to be punished by him and not by any of his Subjects without his Authority nay if any breake promise and Covenant with one of us our selves onely can justly accuse him and shall we not allow God the same Priviledge by what Authority therefore do you this thing call
sermons with fearefull tales of those whom they count their Enemies and with miracles as it were of those on their owne side 7. Hath it not beene counted Popery to presse the precepts of men with more eagernesse then those of God and to punish the neglect of them with greater severity then the breach of divine Lawes and may not men now a daies breake the righteous Lawes of God steale rob and spoile their neighbours persecute Gods Ministers prophane his worship and deface his houses with impunity nay with commendation for their zeale and care of the cause but if any for conscience sake forbeare to give a ready obedience to a burdensome ordinance of man which perhaps too he cannot possibly stand under shall he not be prisoned and plundered his living taken from him if he be a Minister and his people poysond with the intrusion of some false teacher 8. The Doctrine of Popery is a Doctrine of Pride all must submit to the Pope and his Popelings he for his part will be judged by none but all must be judged by him from which condition he is called by the Apostle Antichrist because he advanceth himselfe against all that is called God which is the title of Kings and Princes and is not this superlativenesse of spirit manifest among us nay do not our Brethren of the new way aime at a farre greater power over men then the Bishops had of late whom for that cause they counted Popish what did those wordes else of one in my hearing discover We shall saies he be as much troubled with the Justices of Peace as we were before with the Bishops if there be not some order taken with them and that device of another that for the government of the Church we onely that had beene molested by the Bishops should be imployed in that and they that had before beene any way Prelaticall should have nothing at all to do therein Sir those expressions and such like did I must confesse begin to worke the first suspicion in me of my Brethren I before did thinke they had all endeavoured as I did at the reformation of evill and not at their owne supremacy both over their Brethren and the Gentry too therefore for my part I shall rather choose to walke in the low way alone then in that High way with them 9. The Doctrine of Popery hath alwaies beene a Doctrine of violence and cruelty the whole booke of Martyrs doth sufficiently shew it and may it not be said of them that pretend they are the reformers of Popery amongst us that destruction and violence are in their waies for their cruelty I thinke that reverend Brother of ours did sufficiently intimate it by the resolution he gave to a tender Conscience desireing to know whether it were lawfull to lend or give mony to maintaine this warre against the King His Answer as I heard was Affirmative and his reason was taken from the Examples of Succoth and Penuell who were rent with briars and thornes when the Captaine returned because they had not given him their assistance and to prevent a like punishment he concluded it was lawfull to give the resolution was doughty but it inferr'd Cruelty in the exactors And so my selfe talkeing with another about this businesse of plate and money his judgement was we had better give then not for if the King prevailed wee were like to find mercy from him for he was gratious and pitifull and would in his Princely compassion consider the inforcement that was used upon us and the danger we were in but if they prevailed on the other side nothing but cruelty in the excesse could be expected from them could their any more be said of the Papists It is true as the Papists cry out of the Cruelty of the Protestants so do they of those of the Kings party but why do men practice themselves what they condemne in others Author of the Pamphlet called The glorious Name of God c. Pag 21. How cruelly they of the Kings side demeane themselves I know not but this I know however that unreverend speaker is pleased to call the Nobility and Gentry with the King clouts and ragges and wispes appointed of God to scoure such uncleane vessels as himselfe is yet they are better bred then those persons emploied to plunder and spoile us and a Noble Gentile spirit ordinarily scornes Cruelty Secondly those Declarations that come from His Majestie if as we are urged to beleeve are made by his Cavaleers we may say their breath is not so nauseous to the apprehension of a Gospellike spirit as that of others we do not meet with Kill slay and destroy in any of these expresses which indeed is the Language of Antichrist who is therefore called Apollyon a destroier where ever I heare Kill slay and destroy I conceive it to be the Language of Abaddon Nay in one thing more let me shew you the Spirit of Antichrist in this new way As the aime of the wicked Papists hath beene cheifely to defile mens Consciences and to destroy their soules by labouring to perswade them by promises and threats to recant and deny the truth of God which they have professed as is evident by many examples in the booke of Martyrs and because they would not do that therefore was that mercy lesse Cruelty excercised upon them so is it the fashion now I can speake it by experience when I had beene a prisoner for preaching the truth of Jesus the space of seventeene dayes I addressed my selfe unto that member who by seduction onely as I hope was made the first instrument of my drunken adversary to bring me into trouble for I thought it my duty out of love to his soule to deny my selfe and beg a plaister from that hand that most unjustly had given the wound and to this end I obteined your most friendly and brotherly letter unto him but what did I meet withall a serious persuasion to recant whereto I answered that I durst not deny the truth of God which I had preached He most discreetly replied yea but the truth must not be spoken at all times I humbly answered that a divine truth is then in speciall to be spoken and mainteined by them that are entrusted with it of God when 't is in danger to be lost which he also denied but as be said his businesse was such that he could not stand to argue the case with me by which I gathered that if I would have defiled my conscience in disclaiming that depositum which God had committed to my charge I might haply at this present have enjoyed my living and the Society of my wife and children But Sir I did see the Hand of God bringing me before the Parliament as well as the hand of that member and although perhaps he brought me upon the stage of trouble that I might deny the truth of God yet I am sure Gods end was that I might confesse the same to his glory and
Kings Person p. 9 6. The Subjects duty and the Soveraignes Excellency p. 10 7. Inward Honour is due to the King and how the same is to be expressed p. 16 8. The question about resisting the Kings Person stated and opened p. 22 9. The lawfulnesse of resisting the Kings personall will by force of Armes disavowed p. 25 10. Scripture examples for it answered p. 30 11. Arguments from Reason answered p. 34 12. Objection from the Kings Oath answered p. 41 13. Scriptures alleadged to evidence the unlawfulnesse of this resistance p. 48 14. Particular Reasons why the Authors Conscience cannot permit him to concurre with some of his Brethren in the way of resistance p. 61 15. This way of Resistance shewed to be 1. Against the way of God p. 66 2. Destructive to the whole Law of God p. 67 3. Inconsistent with the spirit of the Gospell p. 71 4. Contradictive to the perpetuall practice of Christianity p. 72 5. Opposite to the Calling of Ministers p. 74 6. Adverse to common Prudence p. 75 7. Dissentive from the rule of Humanity p. 76 8. Contrary to nature it selfe p. 77 9. Gain-saying Reason p. 78 10. Against the Oath of Allegeance and late Protestation p. 83 84 Reader By reason of the Authors absence some of these Sections are not so plainly noted as the rest wherefore for your better information of the summe of each and where they begin have recourse to this Table Faults escaped in some Copies PAg. 9. lin 21. for yet reade yea● p. 14. l. 1. r. more l. 15. r. rather makes p. 15 l. 4. r. hinder l. 21. for these r those p. 16. l. 13. r. the Lord will not l. 25. r. thousands p. 21. l. 35. dele and now Sir p. 22. l. 1. r. you discerne l. 3. for at r. out l. 34. for or r. and. p. 23. l. 6. r. contraria l. 14. r. proper l 17. for divers r. armes p. 24. l. 20. r. by Subjects p. 30. l. 9. r. purpose p. 31. l. 19. r. Osiander p. 35. l. 12. r. which p. 39. l. 19. r. singulatim l. 36. r. thee p. 40. l. 34. for this r. our p. 41. l. 16. for Empire r. Emperour p. 48. l. 29. for his r. this p. 89. l. 16. r. will of my c. TO MY REVEREND FRIEND AND BROTHER Mr STEPHEN MARSHALL THe God of all Wisedome Grace and Peace for Christs sake direct all our spirits ever to promote and do that onely which tendeth to the advancement of his owne glory and the tranquillity of this Church and State Amen SIR THe distance of place betwixt us causeth mee to reply by writing unto those things that were urged at our last meeting which at that time I rather heard then answered and now I do professe in the sight of that great God who knowes all hearts and must one day judge us that I desire to maintain no opinion as mine but as I conceive it to be a divine truth I am ready to deny my selfe in forsaking what I hold if at length such arguments as the weight of the cause requires can be produced against it out of Gods booke which is the onely bridle to my conscience In the first place I begge leave of your patience to declare my judgement or if you please my faith in the case I will plainely sincerely and fully expresse it with the grounds thereof then I will answer your Objections and discover how Scripture to my apprehension doth fairely lead mee out of that Labirinth wherein perhaps you thought mee left intangled and lastly I will give some reasons why my conscience disrelisheth that other way wherein diverse of my reverend and well regarded brethren walke SECT I. The KING hath immediate dependance upon God and to him onely is accountable Wherefore my good friends be you pleased to know that I do beleeve what ever the fancy of this Age is that next to Gods Sacred word and worship Kings and Kingdomes are things of the most high and reverend regard in this world with great humility therefore to be thought upon and discoursed of For as Scripture above all other writings so Kings above all other persons have an immediate dependance upon God Dan. 2.21 they are of his sole making He removeth and setteth up Kings And Kingdomes are of his owne disposing Dan. 4.25 The most High ruleth in the Kingdome of men and gives it to whomsoever he will Rom 13.1 And although it is most true that all the powers that be are ordained of God Joh. 19.11 and there is no power but what is given from above for as by him Kings Reigne so also by him Princes rule and Nobles yea all the Iudges of the earth Prov. 8.15 16. yet I beleeve all inferiour powers under the King are from God more remotely namely mediante Rege by the mediation of the supreme even as the lesser Starres have their light from God by the mediation of the Sunne they are the Kings delegates ordained and sent by him saies the Apostle who is sent by God 1 Pet. 2.14 and is under God the chiefe à Deo secundus post quem primus saith Tertullian And hence the Throne of the King is called the Throne of God wherein the King judgeth for God in Gods stead 1. Chro. 29.23.24 but the seat of the inferiour Magistrates is called the Kings seat where they sit and judge for him And hence too the King or supreme hath his Patent immediately from God He is Rex Dei gratiâ and his title is Gode Deputy or the Minister of God Rom. 13.4 but the Inferiour Magistrates have their Patents from the King they are Magistratus Regis gratiâ and are intituled the Kings Ministers or the Kings Iudges And as the man is said to be the Image of God and the woman to be the Image of the man upon whom she hath dependance 1. Cor. 11.7 so the King is the Image of God and inferiour powers in regard of their dependance upon him are the Images of the King they in their places represent Him as Hee in his place represents God and they no otherwise represent God then as they represent the King The King is to them as Moses was to Aaron and the other Judges Ex. 4.16 the mouth of God and they are the mouth of the King unto the people as Aaron and those others were the mouth of Moses Ex. 18.22 And as the Kings duty is to preferre Gods will before his owne so their duty is to preferre the Kings will before their owne when it contradicteth not the will of God revealed in his words And hence I gather that none can call Soveraigne Princes to an account if they transgresse but only God whose immediate stewards they are solum Deum quem habent Authorem habent quoque judicem therefore David well tibi tibi soli peccavi against thee Ps 51.4 thee only have sinned that is thou only O