and Kingdome are not absolut and perfect toward vs but are diminished and changed now in respect as they were to the Iewes of old And the very forme of Christes saide Visible Church is changeable by men and may be instituted first by men Whence it also followeth that a noble part of Christes divine honor glory may bee by men diminished and taken from him and may lawfully bee attributed to men Every one of these consequents is certain neyther can any of them be denyed nor shifted off by our adversaries who reiect the said opinion of the peoples necessary Consent in the Church governement Now this I earnestly desire all men to take notice of that they may see what it is that hath mooved mee and still doth to imbrace the opinion contrarie to the course of the Church governement in England God is my witnes that were it not for these vnavoydable Consequents which touch the very life and soule of all true religion and godlynes I should long since have conformed now would in this bebalfe For otherwise what reason have I to care for the people But because my heart and conscience can not indure to admit these Consequentes which I hope is both honest yea necessarie and Christianlike and so will bee acknowledged by every good man that considereth it therefore doe I beleeve this said opinion as an Evangelicall truth viz. that the peoples coÌ„sent in church government is an Apostolike ordinance and Christes immutable Commandement to vs. And therefore principally did I write that Treatise which I intituled The Divine beginning and institution of Christes true Visible or Ministeriall Church Also the Vnchangeablenes of the same by men viz. 〈◊〉 the forme and essentiall Constitution thereof Which is all the matter that I have regard vnto even that I may in no wise be guiltie of that fearfull sacrilege of spoyling God of his Honor and of giving his glory to another which be so mainly “ Isa 42.8 forbiddeth Which I am sure is not don by acknowledging the foresaide right of the Christian people I am sure that thus all the fore named wicked and impious Consequentes †As by ouâ— Attestators beforâ— may bee seene are avoyded and the whole glory and honor of Christ our Savior iâ— preserved safe and sound For thus we easily holde him even in respect of instituting the forme of his Visible Church and governement therof vnder the Gospell to be our absolut Prophet and King and his New Testament to bee intire and perfect yea fully so perfect for vs as the Old Testament was for the Iewes and so the forme of his said Church and governement to be absolutly vnchangeable by men Even altogether no lesse then it was vnder the Law All this in holdinge our opinion I say wre are sure of Wherefore let me reason thus That opinion which yeeldeth CoÌ„sequents so godly and pious must needes it self be godly and pious questionles cometh from God But our opinion aforesaid yeeldeth CoÌ„sequents so godly and pious yea such in deed as are principles and fundamental grounds of Christian faith Therefore this our opinion it self is right godly pious and proceeding from God Contrarie-wise That opinion which necessarily forceth men to such impietie and vnchristian Consequentes as “ Pag. 133. 134. before I noted eveÌ„ to the overthrow of principles of faith the same it selfe is not of God neither standeth with truth What autors and fautors so ever it have But the opinion of our adversaries verily is such It forceth men of necessitie to those impious vnchristian Consequents as I shewed They can not possibly avoyd them Therefore the opinion of our adversaries viz. who deny the Christian peoples consent in Church governement to be an Apostolike Ordinance and an immutable coÌ„mandement of Christ and so do hold the forme of a proper Diocesan Church and governement to be lawfull and good their opinion I say is not of God neither standeth with truth Now the case standing thus as most cleerly it doth no man can deny but that in coÌ„sideratioÌ„ of these certain coÌ„sequents aforenamed as also in other iust respectes that faithfull man of God whosoever hee was that made that “ An humble Supplication c. An. 1609 Petition to the Kings Maiestie for a Toleration of our way and profession with peace and quietnes in England had great reason so to do and also his Excellent Maiestie bee it spoken with reverence to his Royall Estate to admit of it For what evill can ensue from vs when wee strictly hold fast as we do such holy and Divine principles of Christian faith as before are mentioned and when our inconformitic to the common course in England is only for these causes as I for my part do call God to witnes to my soule it is I say in regard of Religion thus what evill can probably be thought wil ensue from vs And as touching our tractablenes vnder the Kings authoritie and governement Doc. Downame our bitter adversarie “ Def. 1.66 acknowledgeth that wee submit our selves enough Nay he holdeth it to bee too much and proudly he calleth it a desperate or frantike minde in vs so to do But wee holde it our bounden dutie in the presence of God to submit our selves to any Civil Magistrat be he never so meane if the King appoint him over vs. But saith he †Def. 1.83 The summe of our suite in that petition is that we may be tolerated Schismatikes I challenge this rude Doctor and will prove that we seeing we holde only those fundamental Grounds of ChristiaÌ„ faith above meÌ„tioned and that which is evidently built vpon the same are not Schismaâ—â—kes Againe I will prove and make it manifest that indeed him selfe and his consortes are Schismaticks Who are the Schismatiks in England seeing he and they deny those foresaid fundamentall grounds of faith for which only wee contende They therefore them selves are the Schismatikes and “ Rom. 16.17 1. Tim. 6.3 the makerâ— of the division which is now in England All wise men know that not the difference but the cause maketh a Schismatike Let mee once againe therefore presse them with Augustinâ— sentence against the Donatistes which once already †Ang contra Peril 2.25 I did heretofore But they love not to heare of it Saith Augustine “ Reas. for ref pag 77. Virum Schismatici nos sumus an vos nee ego nec tu sed Christus interrogetur vt indicet Eeclesiam suam Lege ergo Evangelium respondet tibe c. Whether we or you be Schismarikes aske not me nor yourselves but aske Christ that hee may shewe his owne Church Read the Gospell therefore and 〈◊〉 answereth thee c. Our Doctor hath an absurd and profane distinction which though he apply it to another matter yet peradventure hee would vse it in this cause against vs if hee could finde that it would bee taken as currant Hee
in a good sense â—ay becalled a Parish one ordinarie assembly as I have said The true Grammar sense and proper meaning of the worde Ecclesia in those times doth proove it What Divinitiâ— shall we expect from these Doctors whâ— will pervert Grammar Which ouâ— Doctor is not ignorant of but his error heerein is wilfull All sound †See my Declarat pag. 18 32. Autors of the Greek toung according to whom the Apostles do speak do shew that Ecclesia in the times then and alwayes before signifyed one ordinarie Congregation only and not many His fift error heere is that the New Testament noteth some Churches not defining whether an intire church or but a part And he citeth Act. 9.31 and 15. 3.4.41 and 18.22 Rom. 16.16.23.1 Cor. 4.17 and 6.4 and 11.16 and 14.33 with a great many other But all these are likewise by him grosly abused For in all these places the Scripture speaketh intirely properly not by a figure whereof there is no cause appearing in the text Only in Act. 15.4 the Church signifieth a part namely the People because the text expresly distinguisheth it heere froÌ„ their Guids who were a part also Thus in all the whole Writings of the Apostles there is not one word which sheweth a Diocesan Church to have ben then Wherefore in this point hee is quite overthrowen The D. perverteth his text on which his Sermon Defense resteth yea his very text Apoc. â— 20 which was the whole foundation of his Sermon and Defence is found to bee vtterly perverted and abused togeather with the other places So that all which be buildeth vpon it followeth in his writing after is nothing but cavillation And namely that against my selfe in his pag. 6. where hee saith I have first strongly conceited that there is no true Visible Church but a Parish then have haled the places of scripture where Ecclesia is mentioned to the confirmation of my conceit Let him not abuse people as hee doth by the Equivocation of the word Parish For I meane not that the Apostolike Churches were Parishes as we cal a Parish now in England that is limited within a certaine circuit of grounde Though a Church may be so limited yet it is not necessarie neither was it so then But then every Church was such a Parish as I noted a little “ Pag. 201. Declar. pag. 18.19 Reas. for ref pa. 5.29 before And so it is very true Then why saith hee that I have first conceited that there is no true Visible Church but a Parish He might have seene it conceited before me by those noble and sacred instrumentes †Before pag. 103.104 32. c. And after pag. 214.215 Zuinglius Luther the rest of our Attestators But malice drave him against me as it hath driven him against me in other slanders likewise Wherefore rather he might have said that in this not I If in this the Scripture be haled Zuinglius hath don it c. but they have haled the Scripture from whom I have learned it But I hope those worthies knew the meaning of the Greek Ecclesia better then our Doctor though hee be conceited enough of his owne learning and they maintained it prosperouslie against stronger adversaties then hee â—is or ever will bee But in deed hee ought to blush to charge mee in this case with haling the Sciptures Him selfe haler of Scripture when him selfe is thus found to hale them and pervert them most vnconscionably as before is shewed He is often vpon this “ Def. 2.104.65 that the Church of Cenchreae Rom. 16.1 was a Membrall Church to the Church of Corinth and subiect to it But I have †Declarat pag. 30. els-where shewed this his presumptioÌ„ in taking the Apostles words figuratively here also without cause As if the Apostle called but a part of a Church by the name of a Church there being no reason in the text why he should heere speak Synecdochically Nay to take the Apostle so is coÌ„trarie even to his owne rule I will presse him with his owne wordes I would know of him what reason hee hath to forsake the grammaticall sense “ Def. 1. pag. 33. And where the Holy Ghost speaketh properly how dares be to expound him figuratively Heere I could leave of this point concerning his proofes from the New Testament for Diocesan Churches But that hee †Chap. â— resumeth Rev. 1.20 which was his text and laboureth to make shew of some reason therein First hee saith “ Pag. 42.43.44 those 7. Churches contayned the Cities and Countryes adioyning This is his Minor Which is not only contrarie to the propertie of the word Ecclesia before noted but also coÌ„trary to the expresse text beside which saith this Ephesian Church was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Ephesus Rev. 2.1 not without nor contayning that large Country Territorie adioying as he saith it did then The like the text saith of the Church in Smyrna and of the Church in Pergamus and so of all the rest Signifying expresly that every of these Churches was contayned at least when they met within their Cities His shifting heereabout pag. 105 is nothing And that of â—â—keniÌ„g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to it is as little For Act. 24.12 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the City and did not extend it selfe to the CouÌ„try adioyning viz. to the Civill Province of each of them This reason therfore of his is very vntrue Yet he would fortifie it further “ Pag. 43.56 assuming againe that Our Saviour writing to all the Churches of Asia nuÌ„breth but seaven If hee wrote to all then it may seeme that these 7. were generall Churches contayning in and vnder them many other inferior Congregations For it is not like but in Asia properly so called which was the Roman Province and †Cicer. Orat pro L. Flacco contayned Phrygia Mysia Caria Lydia there were moe ordinarie Christian Congregations then only 7. at that time Nay it is plainly false our Saviour heere writ not to all the Churches of Asia The text beside mentioneth “ Act. 20.7 Troas †Colos 4.13 Colossâ— Hierapolis which were questionles within these â—â—undes Magnesia Trallis in all likeâ—â—hood were now also Mentioned in Ignatius Epist and were no â—embers now of any of those seaven 〈◊〉 the Revelation And it is more then â—â—kely that many other besides these â—â—â—ere named were also Indeed Christ â—â—ould that all within Asia yea out â—f Asia too should exemplarily take â—dmonition by this which he writeth â—etsonally directly to these seaven â—one which is all that he meaneth in â—hose wordes “ Rev. 2 1â— Let him that hath an eare â—eare what the Spirit saith to the Churches â—ut this is nothing to proove that all â—hese other Churches were MeÌ„bers subâ—ect to those seaven Yet two reasons â—â—ore “ Chap. 4. he hath One is
should by a Congregation signifye either Vniversall or Provinciall or Diocesan Church is a most false vnlikely conceit Can any of these bee one Visible Congregation in the singular nomber He alleageth as hee thinketh textes for his pupose Matt. 16. Ephe. 1. and 5. Which surely may well yea they are to bee vnderstood of a Visible Congregation viz. indefinitly taken See heereof the Divine beginning and institution of Christes Visible Church Argum. 26. 23. Of Mai. Beza “ Def. 4.166 hee affirmeth that hee wished with all his heart for the Diocesan Bishops governemēt in Geneva Which is as true as that which the Iesuits blazed abroad how Beza before his death recanted his religion Beza lived to cōvince the Iesuits of vntruth to their faces If hee were now alive he would do the like to this Doct. and those other of whō he saith hee heard it The like audacitie is in that his report that the most learned iudicious Divines in France and Geneva could bee content that Diocesan Bb. governement were renewed among them The most learned in France and Geneva Verily as they were who renewed it Scotland of late Most learned and most iudicious were they Laus proprio sordescit in ore And I feare rather that knowen parable to be heerein verifyed When the trees would have a King the Olive Figtree and Vine refusing the Bramble tooke it on him and said to the trees †Iudg. 9.15 Come put your trust vnder my shadow When all shiftes faile the adversaries will calumniate vs as not dutifull to the King and Civil governement Which though D. Downame saith “ Def. 1.45 hee will not dispute yet he maliciously insinuateth As touching dutifull affection to the Kings person none can say more if he list then D. Downame him selfe in my particular Yea what wordes I spake whē he held his peace to a Noble Lord of Scotl. An. 1601. when neither of vs durst be seene nor heard abroad for feare of whom Verily of those who were his best friends since If I was thē so dutifully animated toward the K. when we only hoped for his Maiestie God forbid I should bee lesse now when we have him Being so maligned traduced as I am I could not but speake of this Touching our duty generally to his Maiesties authoritie and place the evidence of reason sense plead for vs. Tertull. ad Scapul We acknowledge with Tertullian that he is Solo Deo minor Lesse then God only In Church governement we impeach not his Soveraigtie neither in matter nor manner Therefore no way at all The matter is only about Ezcommunication and Making of Ministers and such like things Of the essentiall forme whereof Christ only is institutor his Ecclesiasticall servantes bee the Ministers The King is neither Author nor Minister Vnto this I suppose all agree For the maner Seeing we holde each whole Church in the greatest extent can be no mo ordinarie Congregations then one how can these either by their comming togeather or by their consenting in any Spirituall busines only for them selves I say how can these impeach the Kings power one haire His Supreme Vniversall overseeing and ordering them and all others yea his chastising them when they do any thing amisse how can it be let how can it be hindered by such a handfull And because hee must vse Substitute Rulers in his general overseeing the Churches of his Dominions we frō our hearts do honor them also and submit to them as to Gods Lieutenants in their severall places Only we testifie that if the Kings power be committed to any Ecclesiasticall person especially Civill coactive power it draweth with it both a breach of Christes ordinance who said to such Ministers “ Luc. 22.25 Math. 20.25 2. Chro. 19.11 You shall not be so and also a torture to Christian subiects cōsciences Wherefore we desire of God that the King would be pleased to appoint as Ichosaphat did a Zebadiah to bee generall Governor vnder him in Church causes so far as it pertaineth to the King to deale in them and as King Henry 8. a L. Cromwell his Vicegerent in rebus Ecclesiasticis and as his Maiestie him selfe did as I have heard in Scotland before hee came among vs. Which may be far more easily performed with inferior subordinate Officers vnder them also for this purpose in every place in a Monarchie then in any Popular or Aristocraticall Cōmon wealth Vnitie how And verily this is it and not a Diocesan Bishop which would bring great vnitie and that according to God If D. Downame wil vrge which he grateth vpon in this said †Def. 1.45 pag. 45. that the Churches indepēdent authoritie standeth not with the Kings Supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall and that which els where wee say viz. nothing may be obtruded on the Church against their willes I answer indeed every Churches power is independent spiritually and immediat vnder Christ our meaning therefore is that by ptetended Spirituall authoritie Chap. 9. nothing may be obtruded imposed on any true Church against their willes But we grant that Civill Magistrates may and sometime ought to impose good things on a true Church against their willes if they stifly erre as somtime they may And me thinks Doct. Downame also should bee of this minde with vs. This is thus answered often before pag. 115. c. Hitherto our answer to some of our Adversaries chiefest obiections and evill wordes And so I draw to an end CHAP. IX A short advertisement to the vpright hearted and Christian Reader touching this Writing Cause YET first I desire the Christian Reader to be advertised of a few things pertayning to this Cause Seavē things I intreat him to take notice of First how great a blame and shame it is to D. Downame a principall Logician to treate so largely as in his Sermon defenc he hath done concerning the Nature Forme and Constitution of Christs true Visible Church and yet in all this not once to define the same Which defect of D. Bilson also is to be noted in his perpetuall governement of the Church Surely this one matter viz. a Definition of Christes true Visible Church vnder the Gospell well performed would have saved a great deale of paines and trouble would have prevēted much error And thus it is wiselie taught by Cicero that “ Cicer. Offic. 1. all purposes reasonable ought to be begū with a Definitiō of the matter in band For the avoyding therefore of this imputation I have in †The Divine beginning institution of Christs Visible Church another Treatise defined the said Visible Church of Christ Which I did and rested not on some others who have Defined the Church heertofor because I desired to distinguish cleerly betweene the Iewish Church and the Christian which verily differ not in Accidentes alone but in kinde of governement and in essentiall constitution The Iewish Christian Church
An Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines Lightes of Religion and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent Also this That a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary Congregations but one In the discourse whereof specially Doctor Downames also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same are answered Calvin Instit 4.3.2 Hee laboureth the destruction and ruine of the Church whosoever either seeketh to abolish this order and this kinde of government whereof we treate or maketh light of it as not so necessary ANNO DOM. 1613. To my Christian and beloved friends in London and elswhere in England Grace and peace be multiplied in IESVS CHRIST our Lord. THe great and long afflictions which it hath pleased God to call me vnto onlie for testifying his heavenly truth against the grievous corruptions of the Church in our Land are well knowen vnto you all my most deare and loving friends In the middest of which my troubles what comfort J have receaved from you though I publish not yet both a most thankefull remembrance thereof remaineth in my heart and with God a most precious recompence is laid vp for you at the last day I confesse I might â—og since have ben discouraged through many things which I finde both within and without me Besides I have not escaped the bytings of false brethren Also I am not ignorant that divers yea of those that least should doe not only distast but also speake evill of my innocencie without all cause In very deed they can not tell why But God the righteous Iudge seeth it who yet stil sustayneth and strengthenth my infirmitie by whose grace J am that I am Wherefore in his Name J do still beare witnesse to the truth denyed by many men do now take in hand to intreat heere concerning the Christian peoples power right of †Also coÌ„sequeÌ„tly that a true Church vnder the Gospell coÌ„taineth no mo ordinary Congregations theÌ„ one is not Diocesan properly free consent in their outward spirituall governement given theÌ„ by Christ Jesus in the Gospell And therefore to his gracious assistance heerein I also do trust In the which affaire I thinke it very behoofull for the better manifestation of my lawful and iust indeavour and no lesse needfull for Gods glory to speake to this matter propounded in this Treatise not my selfe alone but to shew openly vnto all who have but a sparke of love to the truth such an Attestation of faithfull and worthy Witnesses with mee in this matter being the maine foundation of our greatest controversie touchinge Church governement that I hope hereafter none will set against this my seeking both of mine owne and your soules good nor cavill at it but such as are too worldly and too earthly minded In my Discourse vpon this cause as touching obiections D Down Defenc Anno. 1611. chiefly I gather out of Doctor Downame such as seeme to any purpose J answer them Him beere J specially deale with because of a friend he is not long since turned from vs and become our adversarie yea the latest I thinkc which openly sheweth him selfe against vs and so is like to be now most in mens eyes also hee hath heaped togeather the most thinges that the best of such Defenders have heeretofore written Besides all this the maner of his writings is with such an “ Defence 1. pag. 16 17. 2. pag 122. insolent conceit of him selfe with such * Defence 2. pag 55. 15. contempt indignation and despite against vs as commonly is not seene in any but those that slide backe from the truth which they had once tacted of And withall though in his Defence he deale with another yet in many passages hee very sharply provoketh me in particular besides other wrongs that he hath done me well knowen For these causes both I write this that I do and I chieflie nominate him for our adversarie as in this treatise so also †In the Declaration elswhere My Christian and loving friends for whose sake most of all I labour and have laboured to make our said question which is long intricat trouble some to be short and plaine and to make the matter it selfe also appeare so waightie as indeed it is Now your partes are wisely and religionsly to ponder in your heartes and to make vse of this same As the Apostle spake to Timothie so do I vnto you Consider Brethren what I say and the Lord give you vnderstanding in all things Amen Iuly 18. Anno 1612. Yours ever in the Lord HENRY IACOB The contents of this Booke divided into Nine Chapters CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Churche governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it Pag. 9. CHAP. II. The Methode and order of this Treatise Pag. 20. CHAP. III. The Testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter Pag. 21. CHAP. IIII. The publike consent of many late yet excellent Churches heerein with vs. Pag. 48. CHAP. V. The Testimonies practise of the best Antiquitie after the New Testament heerin likewise with vs. Pag. 52 CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries sometimes do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine in plaine termes and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes Pag. 70. CHAP. VII Consequences of exceeding great importance following vpon the peoples free consent in their Church-governement inconveniences intollerable following from the contrary Pag. 84. CHAP. VIII An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the Adversaries of this cause noting also briefly their immodest not Christian like reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine Pag. 199. CHAP. IX A short Advertisement to the vpright hearted and Christian Reader touching this Writing and Cause Pag. 316. An Attestation of many Learned Godly and Famous Divines Lightes of Religion pillars of the Gospell instifying this doctrine viz. That the Church government ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent c. CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Church-governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it WHEREAS many thinges at divers and sundrie times heeretofore have ben writteÌ„ which prove a plaine necessitie by Gods Word to reforme the Church Church-governement now in England verily among them all there is almost no other point so evident so direct and ful to this purpose that is Chap. 1. none in a maner so absolutly importeth the saide necessitie of reformation as this doth which is vtterly wanting among vs namâ—ly That the Church-governement ought tâ—â—â—e exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent One or two maâ—â—â— grounds of our whole controversie It
is true another ground thereof there is likewise that of no lesse importance in this matter which is That Christes true Visible and Ministeriall Church vnder the Gospell consisteth not of many ordinarie Congregations but only of one Which I have at large prooved to be a truth and have made it manifest in my Declaration pag. 10.11.12 c. and in Reas. for Reform pag. 19.20 65.66 And againe †Chapt. 8. heere after I do shew it further Yet the former point in some respect may bee thought rather the chief because this secoÌ„d is a depeÌ„dant on the former followeth by a necessarie consequence from it as partly is shewed in the said Declarat pag. 13.14 and more fully in the VII Chapt. of this present Treatise insuing Againe that requiring the peoples free consent noteth Christes Visible Churches nature and essence intensivè The Churches nature intensivè as the Scholes do speake that is it sheweth thâ— ground of the power and life thereof The other sheweth the essence of it extensivè Extensivè that is the largenes of the Body of the Church iust extent or the due limites and bounds thereof outwardly Wherefore that requiring the peoples free consent is manifestly a most proper and speciall Argument in our cause and such as toucheth the quicke in the matter of the said reformation most neerely D. Downame erreth greatly in his late Defence making his first booke thereof full long tedious only to disprove Lay Elders as he calleth them Thinking without all reason that if hee speed well therein he hath gotten the victorie Wherevpon hee most fondly inferreth thus “ Defenc. 1. pag. 62. Who seeth not that the disproofe of their Presbyteries is a direct proofe for our Bishops And in another place * Defenc. 2.2 Who seeth not that vpon the overthrow of the Presbyteries the governement by Bishops is necessarily inferred Who seeth not Verily neither hee nor any man living seeth it Hee was tolde sufficiently by his Refuter †Ibid. pa. 10. of this his vaine and frivolous inference But hee seemeth so in love with his owne folly that he caÌ„ indure no maÌ„ to shew him his errour Nay such a minde hee beareth that in his Defence he goeth about with pretended Logike to make this his idle conceit seeme reason and therevpon hee saith his adversarie must “ Defen 1.6 confesse him selfe ignorant in Logike if hee will deny this his inference And so ‡ Pag. 62. this passage concerning Lay Elders he hopeth will be acknowledged not to bee impertinent Never a whit truly The question of Elders wholy impertinent For this passage still is not only impertinâ—nt and idle but even a false defence of those whom he peadeth for if he will yet holde his opinion still He hath not Logike at commaund neither can hee by his Sophistrie amonge men of anie vnderstandinge make that to seeme which is not Where hee saieth it is “ Pag. 61. presupposed on both sides it is his folly to say so And in saying his Refuter witnesseth it hee grosly abuseth him He doth the contrarie in the same place which hee alleadgeth out of him For the Doctor leaveth out his Refuters wordes presently following those which hee alleageth Which later words are flat against him So iustly and truly our Doctor dealeth in his writings Like to this is his great boast which hee maketh heere in his booke and often afterwards also viz. that he hath found out twoo sortes of Disciplinarians as his wisedometermeth them one “ Defenc. 1.60 and 2.147 elder and more learned the chiefe of whom he saith are Calvin and Beza Another new shallow and ignorant sort of whom he maketh †Defenc. 2.2 82.130 Maister Cartwright chiefe adioyning others of vs since vnto him But what difference â—ndeth hee in these Disciplinarians â—orsooth the elder he saith holde â—resbyteries in Cities to governe â—hole Dioceses and Provinces and â—erein he avoucheth “ Defenc. 2.2 they ioyne with â—e Bishops in England against the new sort of â—isciplinarians The new sort * Defen 1.60 boldly and â—â—noranâ—ly hold Parishionall Presbyteâ—ies Naythis Doctor slandereth either â—gnorantly or maliciously For wee whoÌ„ he maketh of the new shallow â—nd ignorant sort we I say Wee agree with Calvin Beza in substance differ not â—ne haire from Calvin and Beza touâ—hing the substance of this matter We as they they as we do acknowâ—edge both the one and the other that â—s both the Parishionall and the Dioâ—esan Presbyteries yea the Provinciâ—ll and larger too if occasion serve â—t is false which he imputeth to Calvin â—nd Beza that they maintayne the Church-governement by Diocesan Provinciall Presbyteries absolutly without any relation to the peoples â—onsent in the ordinarie Congregations Also that heerein they ioyne with the Bishops in Englande or that they materially differ from vs. All which God willing we shal shew to be vntrue and that most cleerely in the 3. Chapt. also in the 7. 8. here following Wherefore these be all slanderous forgeries of the Doctors devising of purpose to make our innocencie odious by all the shifts be can to cast some “ Defen 1.53 colour of iust cause or shew of reason for his leaving of our acquaintance Wherefore D. Downame left his first profession to whom heeretofore he ioyned him self namely while there was som expectation of his Maiesties favour towards vs. And this is fully enough for answer to the substance of his whole first booke Seeing to trouble our selves much with impertinent stuffe would be in vs also great folly Yea to speake the truth the prosecuting of all the rest of his Defence besides is such likewise that is cleane from the maine purpose toucheth not the chiefe question betweene vs. Indeed he propouÌ„deth one part of the question wel in the title of the second booke of his Defence but his prosecuting of it both there and every where els even to the end is as if we denyed Bishops and their governement in the Churches of Christ We deny not Church government by Bishops Which is nothing els but lyes malicious forgerie against vs by equivocating falshood slander to make vs seeme as if wee were against both the expresse letter of the New Testament EquivocatoÌ„ and also of the most ancient Ecclesiasticall Writers where we know any maÌ„ may see Bishops their government to be coÌ„mended as from God and as the ordinance of the Apostles Which is the very practise likewise of Doct. Bilson against vs in his booke Of the perpetuall governement of Christs Church Whose trace our Doctor followeth step by step But as I said both their great and large volumes about this matter are nothing els but two heapes of equivocations or sentences wholy impertinent such as we admit with them or some conclusions wherein they plainly contradict theÌ„selves elswhere Little cause therefore had
and whose faith wee follow therein whom I put first namely for their singular perspicuitie and resolutnes in it Then I will rehearse the practise of the most ancient times after the Apostles After that I will remember our very adversaries consent with vs heerein sometimes Then I will shew some certaine firme consequences whiche follow from this ground necessarily also some true great inconveniences in reâ—ecting this doctrine Moreover I will answer some of the adversaries chiefest obiections noting also briefly their immodest and vnchristian reproches against this Evangelicall truth And finally adding a brief advertisement touching this cause we will commit the whole coÌ„sideration thereof to the vpright hearted and discreet Christian Reader CHAP. III. The testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter BEGINNING therefore with the New Writers I iudge it meet and convenient to alleage in the formost place the resolut determination of Maister Beza Beza because he of al others is thought by some vnadvised persons to be most against vs in this point Now hee disputing this question at large in his Epist 8â— setteth downe this conclusion Populo invito nihil obtrudatur Let nothing be imposed on the people or Congregation agâ—aâ—t their willes Then the which verily we desire no more this is all in substance that we seek in our assertion Againe vnles it bee so the Church-governement either is a Monarchie or a verie Oligarchie But Maister Beza expresly condemneth both these and the later namely on Math. ca. 18.17 Wherefore howsoever Maister Beza interpreteth some things otherwise then we do vseth some times other phrases then we perhaps do thinke so fit or so frequently to be vsed yet touching this point in question hee agreeth wholy with vs in substance and in effect For let this which he in these wordes setteth downe be yeelded vnto vs theÌ„ wee are satisfyed for the substance of Church-governemeÌ„t To which purpose Maister Beza saith also in Confes 5.35 The Apostles intended in the Churches which they planted that no Pastor should bee obtruded on a flocke against their willes Yet moreover I pray the Reader to note that even hee also strongly maintayneth this right of the people in the affayres of their soules many tymes in more free and large termes As where he saith “ Confes 5.34 I finde no where in any Christian Church built vp that any is promoted either to the Ministerie of the word or Deaconship or Eldership any other way then by a publike and free election And †Sect 35. I repeat againe that which I said before It was never receaved in Christian Churches established that any should be admitted to an Ecclesiastscall function but being freely and lawfully chosen of that Church which it concerneth Againe “ ibid. Pastors are not to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church Also * ibid. They whosoever they are bring Tyrannie into the Church if they call any man to a publike function at their owne will the consent of the multitude being neglected Againe “ ibid. Presbyters were chosen by the voyces at least by the allowance of the whole assembly Vpon the Act. 14.23 he saith See Oecumen in hunc loc Also Badei Commentar The force of this word Chirotonein is to be noted that wee way know Paul and Barnabas did nothing by their private will neither exercised any tyrannie in the Church He meaneth that they here made Ministers by the peoples voyces or free consent not otherwise And vpon 1. Time 5.22 All the authoritiâ— of making Ministers was not in Timothie alone but election being made by the consent of the whole Church then the President of the assemblie did consecrate him by laying on of handes And on 2. Cor. 2.8 By the publike consent of the Church declare that you embrace that penitent sinner againe as a brother even as by the publike iudgement of the Church he was cast out In all the which it is easie to see Maister Bezaes minde and resolution in this question to bee cleerely with vs. As for that which D. Downame “ Defens 4. pag. 81. obiecteth out of him where he calleth one Morellius †Deâ—grad Ministr 6.23 Fanaticall because he pleaded in like maner for the popular governement The D. abuseth Beza and vs all Morellius pleaded for the popular governement in far vnlike maner He sought in Churches perfectly established to bring all things in particular and ordinarily to the peoples hearing examining iudging and voice-giving But neither Beza nor we intend so Wee acknowledge that the ordinarie sway of all Ecclesiasticall authoritie ought to bee in the true Bishop or Pastour of the church and we affirme that right wel so it may bee although never anie thing be imposed on the Church by him against their willes Which thing D. Downame him selfe also acknowledgeth may be and “ Def. 4. p. 21 was heeretofore in a state of the Church * Rather about 420. about 400. yeres after Christ which hee seemeth to allow of Saving that he cunningly falsifyeth the wordes of the Councill which there he mentioneth to wit in saying the assent or connivence of the people where the Councill saith “ Concil Carth. 4. Can. 22. the assent and connivence But to proceed By this before alleaged all men may see Maist Bezaes iudgement in this cause to be as I said cleerely with vs. And so much concerning him In the second place we will consider Maister Calvin 2. Calvin a Pastor and Guide of the Church of Geneva before Mai. Beza Hee also every where in all his writings is a most earnest patron of this point which heere we professe I will note certain of his sentences to this purpose Saith he “ Instit 4.5.15 Est haec ex verbo Dei legitima Ministri vocatio vhi ex populi consensu approbatione creant qui visi suerint idonei Preesse autem Electioni debent alij Pastores nequid per levitatem vel per malae studia vet per tumultum à multitudine peccetur This is the lawfull calling of a Minister by the word of God where they which seeme fit are created by the consent and approbation of the people Indeed other Pastors ought to moderate and order the Election least the multitude should offend through lightues or ill affection or tumult And a litle before Videmus ipsum Paulum ex populi suffragijs Episcopos creare solitum We see that Paul him selfe was wont to create Bishops by the voyce giving of the people Againe Falluntur qui putant vel Timotheum Ephesi vei Titum in Creta regnum exercuisse vt suo vterque arbiâ—rio omnia disponeret Praefuerunt enim tantum vt bonis salutaribus consilijs populâ— praeirent non vt soli exclusis alijs onnibus agerent quod placereÌ„t They are deceaved who thinke either that Timothie at Ephesus or Titus in Crete did
the whole Church This ought to go before that iudgement And Non absque consensu Ecclesiae quispiam excommunicari potest lus hoc ad Ecclesiam pertinet neque ab illâ eripi potest Witthout the consent of the Church not any one can bee excommunicated This right belongeth to the Church neither ought it to bee taken away from it And the consent of the people is still to be observed in Excommunication both that tyrannie may be avoyded that it may be done with greatâ—er fruit and gravitie The same worthy man greatly coÌ„mendeth the pietie of a Bishop at Troie in France who about the yeare 1561. left his Popish state and did betake him to a flocke of Christians there Epict. â—â— and taught them the word of God purely But quia ei gravis scrupulus â—iectus est de suâ vocatione quod in ed Ecclesis ac populi Elestionem seu Censirmationem uâ— is habuerit ideò c. Beâ—ause he had a great scruple in his conscience about his Calâ—aâ—g seeing hee had not therein the Elâ—ction or Confirmation of the Church and people Therefore hee sent for the Elders of the reformed Church and desired theÌ„ that they would consider godly and wisely whether they would chose confirme and haâ—e hâ—n for their Bishop Which if they thought good to do hee would doe his indeavour that as hee began so hee would go on as hee was able by teaching and exhorting to edifiâ—â— and increase the Church committed to him But if they thought him not fit for so great an Offâ—â—â— they should speake it freely and openly hee was â—eadie to give place c. And hee desired that they would speedily deâ—berate with the Church about the matter Which when it was done hee was acknowledged â—aâ— reâ—eaved of all with one consent as a true Bishop Wherefore his authoritie and pâ—â—iâ— doth much profit the Church of Chriâ—t God bee praised who governeth and gâ—ideth the kingdome of his Sonne in this manner O where shall wee see such Bishops in these dayes 8. Musculus Musculus also speaketh and reasoneth cleerely with vs heerein Hee saith †Com. plac Of Min. Elect. There is no doubt but the Apostles keâ—t that maner of ordayning viz. after the church had chosen And After fasting and praying which was wont to be done in the Congregation of the faithful They ordayned Elders which were first chosen of the faithfull And this forme of Electing and ordayning Elders and Bishops the Apostle commended vnto his fellow workman Titus and Timothie saying “ Tiâ— 1 5. For this cause I left thee in Crete c. For who would beleeve that he ordained that Titus should do otherwise then both hee and the rest of the Apostles were accustomed to do Therefore both by example and ordinace of the Apostle in the primitive church Elders Pastors Bishops and Deacons were in the Ecclesiasticall Meetings chosen of the people by lifting vp of handes Also hee saith The Forme of Election vsed in the Apostles times is conformable to the libertie and priviledge of the Church whereof Cyprian made mention and that forme of choise whereby men began to be thrust vpon the people of Christ beeing not chosen of it doth agree to a Church which is not free but subiect to bondage And this forme of electioÌ„ by the peoples choise he calleth the Old the Fittest the Divine the Apostolicall and lawfull election the other to come from the corrupt state of the Church and Religion 9. Bullinger Bullinger assirmeth thus “ Decaâ— 5.4 The Lord from the beginning gave authoritio to the Church to chose and ordayne fit Ministers And Those which thinke that the Bishop Archbishop have power to make Ministers vse these places of the Scripture * Tit. 1. Therefore I left thee at Crete that thou mightest appoint Elcers Towne by Towne And againe “ 1. Tim. 5. Take heed that thou lay not thy handes rashly on anie But we answer that the Apostles did not vse any tyranny in the Churches nor themselves alone to have don these thinges which pertayned either to Election or Ordination other men in the Church shut out For the Apostles and Elders did create Bishops and Elders in the Church but communicating their counsaill with the Churches yea and with the consent and approving of the people Yea of Ministers that governe anic Church without or against their consent thus he saith “ In 1. Coâ— 5.4 Vâ—bem prodere diâ—untur Legati qui diversum ab eo quod ab vrbe prescriptum est agunt Those embassadors are said to betray the Citie who do any thing divers from that which is prescribed them by the Citie 10. Gualter Gualter likewise is as plaine as can be Saith hee of the calling of Ministers †Hoâ—â—il in Act 13.1 Divinitùs vocatos esse censebimus quâ—scunque Dei spiritus donis necessarijs instruxerit legitiâ—â—s Ecclesiae suffragijs elegerit Aliquas enim in hac causa partes Ecclesiae mandatas esse hiâ— locus perspicuè tradit Ecclesiae calculum spiritus requirit We wil esteeme them to have a calling from God whomsoever Gods spirit hath â—â—abled with necessarie giftes and hath chosen by the Churches lawful giviâ—g of voyces For this place plainly sheweâ—h that in this cause there are some partes committed to the Church The Spirit requireth the Churches iudgâ—ment Afterward he saith “ In Act. 14. â—â— Foedá tyranâ—ide Ecclesiarum slatus opprimitur The state of the Churches is oppressed by filthy tyrannie where at this day the Churches have not this libertie to give their free consent at least For heere he respecteth that right and iust order according to the rule of the Gospell which before he had described †In Act. 1. â—â— Ministrorum verbi Ecclesiae Electiones atque ordinationes non occultè intra privatos parietes à paucis hominiâ—us sed publicè ab Ecclesia in totius Ecclesiae conspectu fieri debent Neque noâ— movet quod Paulus alibi vni Tito vel Timâ—theo ius potestatem Episcopoâ— eligendi tribuere videtur Non enim illos privata authâ—ritate quiâ—quam agere voluit sed pro antistâ—tum â—fficio iubet curare vt Ministri digni idones legittimè crdinentur Nec verisimile est illis plus concessum fu isse quà m Apostolis ipsis qui inconsulta Ecclesia nihil in hac causa vnquam statuerunt Nam paulo post Diaconos coram Ecclesia publicè eligunt Paulus oum Barnabá collectis viritim suffiagijs Presbyâ—eres per Ecclesias singulas ordinavisse leguntur Act. 6. 3.4 The Elections and ordinations of the Ministers of the word and of the Church ought not to bee made secretly within privat walls by a few men but publikly by the Church and in the face of the whole Church Neither doth it moove vs that Paul inan other place seemeth to give right power of chofing Bishops to Titus aloâ—e
14. That the people most of all have power to chose worthy Ministers and to refuse their vnworthy ones After which he sheweth that the other churches els-where professing the Gospell refusing Poperie did likewise They who had a calling from the church of Râ—me renounced it resting on that which they have according to the rule of the Gospell 14. Iunius Also Iunius saith †Ecclesiastie 3.1 Simplicissimam quidem probatissimamque Eligendi Vocandi viam illam esse constat ex Scripturae Sacrae testimonijs quam Apostoli in Ecclesijs tenuerunt olim prisca Ecclesia aliquamdiu eos imitata observavit Eligebat tota Ecclesia id est corpus ex Presbyterio populo seu plebe constitutum equis communihus suffragijs Haec iusta electionis ratio It is manifest that that way of chosing and calling Ministers is most simple and most approoved by the testimonies of holy Scripture which the Apostles in old time did keepe in the Churches and the ancient Church sometime imitating them did observe The whole Church did chose that is the Body consisting of the Eldership and people or common sort by equal common voyces This is the iust manner of Chosing Ministers Afterward hee saith This the old Church did observe very long doneo res coeperunt vt fit humanitus in peius ruere atque retrò sublapsa referri Vntill as through mens corruption it comes to passs things began to grow worse and to runne to ruine And after that corruptioÌ„ in the Church government was come in Yet saith he id semper obtinuit vt Ecclesia actioni toti interesset camque prasentiâ suâ haberet raetam That alwayes was in force that the Church was present at the whole action and ratifyed it with their presence But neither this in England is seene anie where neither will bee allowed Also Iunius saith Where the Church at any time doth no more but ratifie matters by their presence only the Guidâ—t ought to certifie the Church that if they can them selves take care for do their owne affaires non fore penâ—â—â—â—lâ—um Episcoporum Seniorumve coetum vt 〈◊〉 siâ—i cum damno Ecclesia iniuriae ignominâ arroget It shall not be in the power of any asâ—eÌ„bly of Bishops or Elders to arrogat so much to them selves with the Churches dammage iniurie and shame Where hee professeth that this is the Church â—s daÌ„mage iniurie shame if being vnderstaÌ„ding Christians they be only present at the chosing and ordayning of their Ministers if they do not also them selves chose or at least freely expresly coÌ„sent to the chosing and ordayning of them After noting the tyrannie which was in this behalfe vnder the Pope he saith Iam de populo queÌ„ Christus redemit suo sanguine Ecclesiam sibi ex eo compararet verbum nullum Now of the people there was not one word whom Christ redeemed with his bloud that they might be his Church And he addeth Hinc illa barbaries hinc colluvies selelerum omnium hinc illa fraudum nundinationuÌ„ sentina exundavit Hence came that barbarous ignorance in those times that heape of all sinnes that sinke of deceit and selling of the soules of men TheÌ„ speaking of some Churches Magistrates who have worthily freed themselves from the Pope yet hee leaveth this foule blot vpon them Ius illud Eccesiasticum institutionis ordimationis restitut non curant Ecclesijs They care not to restore to the Churches this right of theirs viz of making ordaining of Minister Finally he answeceth some obiections At nescit populus dixerit quispiam Doceatur sciet At nescit vti Imo nesciet vnquam Siture suo non vtatur vnquam At factiosus est plerumque in diversas partes studiaque scinditur Revocetur adpaceÌ„ monitis salutaribus compescatur authoritate verbt virorumque bonorum officijs vt conciliatis compositis animis faciant quod sui turis est But some will say The people is ignorant of their duty and right heerein Let them be taught and they wil vnderstand it But they know not how to vse this their right They will not know it ever if they vse it never But they are factious often and are divided into partes Let them be reduced to Peace by wholesome counsaill and let them be ruled by the authority of the word and the indeavours of good men that their mindes being ordered they may do that which is their right to do 15. Piscator About ExcoÌ„municatioÌ„ Piscator saith “ Observ ex â— cap. 1. Cor. Excommunication ought to bee don by the Church or by the Presbyterie iudging in the name of the Church Where all meÌ„ may see his meaning to bee this viz. that the Presbyterie may excoÌ„municat howbeit alwayes with the Churches free consent For so he signifieth by these wordes iudging in the name of the Church It can not be that hee should meane that they may Excommunicate by their owne power and right onely or whether the Church will or no. After the same maner also I doubt not som others do speake concerning the making king of Ministers Whose sense and meaning is to be taken altogeather to that purpose likewise In the Churches â—amâ— that is Executing the Churches â—uthoritie and power and doing that which they do with their free conâ—ent and approbation 16. Chemniciâ—â— Chemnicius a man most famous of â—are learning among the followers of Luther in the matter of the reall presence yet in our cause hee saith thus “ Exam. part pag. 226. 227. 228. Non sine consensu Ecclesiae Paulus Barâ—abas invitis obtruserunt Presbyteros Paul and Barnabas did not thrust Ministers on the Church being vnwilling or without their â—onsent And Exempla Aposiolica bistoria â—â—are oftendunt c. The examples of the Apostles storie do cleerely shew that Election or Vocation did belong to the whole church And Haec est Apostolicae primitiva veteâ—â— Eccesia sententia de legitima Electione Vocatione Ministrorum c. This is the iudgement and way of the Apostolike primitive and ancient Church concerning the lawful Election and Calling of Ministers which iudgement and way hath place in those Churches which are coÌ„stituted according to Gods word And he addeth In our Churches it is so meaning in those that follow Luther 17. Whitakeâ— Neither can I forget that among â—ur owne Country-men D. Whitaker â—eacheth thus “ De Coneâ—â— pag. 44. Quod omnes attingit ab â—â—â—â—bus approbari debet That which toucheth all Chap. 4. ought to be approved of all Meaning that nothing should bee obtruded vpon any people in Ecclesiasticall and Spirituall regiment no not by Synods except the people consent to it And this consent of the people hitherto avouched verily many other worthy Divines both among vs abroad do maintaine likewise But I forbeare to nominate any mo Knowing that to whom any thing will be enough
and take to my selfe alone common matters Adde vnto this that he saith also †◠4 Apud nos quoque ferè per Provincias vniversas teâ—etur Thus custome and practise is observed with vs at Carthage almost through out all Provinces By all which it is manifest that D. Bilson vainly answereth that Cyprian did yeeld to the people their free coÌ„sent in the Church-governement out of “ D. Bilâ— perpet gover pag. 171. 176. a private moderation and but of his owne free will Nay he saith as wee heard that he durst not do otherwise and that he observed it out of religion and that this power of the people cometh from Divine authoritie Yea doubtles such a generall and perpetuall custome even from the Apostles times and appearing in the Apostles practise also as the New Testament sheweth can not be in Cypriaen a privat moderation only but even an vnchangeable law Neither is that anie truer where hee saith that “ Pag. 178. Cyprian him selfe was the first that casâ—iered his owne confession †Pag. 18â— and brake that custome Hee brake it not Hee did not cassier his owne confession Though that is a thing not impossible Cyprian is not so persit but hee might thus faile thorough affection to him selfe and yet his former testimonies of the peoples right and power afore said may be as they are most true But as I said CypriaÌ„ neverbrake this his own others custome Verily as touching the substance of the matter he never brake it What instances hath hee against vs Saith he Cyprian without the people made Epist 4.5 Celerinus †2 5. Aurelius and “ 3.22 Saturus Readers and Optatus a Subdeacon What of this None of these come into our question Wee have no care of making Readers and Subdeacons But without the people he made * 4.10 Numidicus a Presbyter The place sheweth no such matter nor yet that he was made Presbyter then But rather being absent hee sheweth the Presbyters and people at Carthage that Numidicus was to be made a Presbyter Saying in the future tence Et promovebitur quidem dum tempus permiserit ad ampliorem locum religionis suae cum in presentia protegente Dominâ— venerimus He shal be promoted when wee shall come in presence among you So that he saith not that hee alone had nowe made him a Presbyter Beside it is most manifest in all these places that Cyprian shewed a speciall care to have the peoples liking and free consent to all which hee did and that in his absence hee would attempt not anie thing but that which he presumed was sure of that their liking was to it as much as his own So that he maketh it apparant even heere that hee would do none of these things against their wills Which is all that we seeke also in our assertioÌ„ as touching the substance of it as before we have often shewed Last of all hee saith of Numidicus that he was to bee a Presbyter dignatione Divinâ by Gods speciall Divine will and that Celerinus and Aurelius had their places so I kewise But we speake of no such extraordinaâ—e Divine calling This also toucheth not our question We holde the peoples right of giving consent to be only for the ordinarie callings in the Ministerie D. Bilson further vrgeth that Cyprian receaved some into the Church “ Pag. 17â— without the peoples consent yea when the people withstood it because hee saith in one place †Vix plebi persuadeâ— immo extorqueo I scarce persuade the people Epist 1.3 or rather I wring it from them c. And obnitente plebe contradicente I receaved theÌ„ the people striving against it gainsaying it I answer Seeing hee saith I scarce persuade the people therefore they were persuaded did coÌ„sent to his minde Indeed he sheweth that this matter was hardly gotten at their handes yea a whilè they spake against it but they were persuaded at last and so in conclusioÌ„ thei agreed to do as he thought good Thus hee did not this thing plainly and simply without the peoples consent or against their wâ—â—s simply but with their consent agâ—eement so as I said Whereby it appeareth how frivolous exceptions are taken against Cyprians concurrence and correspondence with vs in this cause whose most cleere and vnanswerable and frequent speaking on our part heerein we have seene before Now only one place more I will note in him describing fully his ordinarie practise in Church governemeÌ„â— and may bee a singular example and patterne for vs. Epist. 3.11 shewing how he receaved againe certaine pâ—enitents who had schismed from the Church He saith thereof first “ 3.11 Omni actu ad me perlato placuit coÌ„trahi Presbyteâ—uÌ„ Every act of their repeÌ„taÌ„ce being brought vnto me I thought good to call togeather he Presbyterie or Eldership Whether heere were any Lay Elders in this Presbyteric or whether all were ordinarie Ministers of the Word and Sacramentes it is nothing materiall Though D. Bilson and D. Downame do make all their sturre about this question yet as I said even in the “ pag. 11. 12. 23. entrance of this Treatise it is nothing to the substance of the controversie betweene vs but it is impertinent from the maine purpose altogeather To passe this therefore Secondly Cyprian in this place addeth His ita gestis in Presbyterium venerunt c. Then the peâ—ntentes came into the Eldership earnestly praying that the things they had committed might be forgotten c. Thirdly Quod eâ—at consequens omnis hic actus populo fuerat â—nsinuandus It remayned that all this action was to be signifyed to the people Magnus fraâ—ernitatis concursus factus est There was a great Meeting of the brethren Vna vox eras â—mnium Maximum Presbyterum locum suum agnoscereiussimus Caeteros cum ingenti populi suffragio recepimus There was one voyce of vs all We willed Maximus the Presbyter to know his place The rest we receaved with a great voycegiving of the people allowing it Heere we see what place and order consent the people vnder Cyprian had in the ordinarie Church governemeÌ„t Certainly it is a plaine example and right worthie to bee followed of vs. And so much concerning Cyprian is sufficient A while after this time Antioch at Antioch the neighbour Bishops comming togeather Anno 27â— do acknowledge that even the Churches thereabouts coÌ„curred and ioyned with them in the act of Excommunicating deposing Paul the Bishop there and in ordayning Domnus in his roome This they signifie iâ— the title of their “ Euseb 7.24 Episâ—le which they all togeather do write about this matter Now questionles among these Churches the Church that is the people of Antioch it selfe were the principall in this action For they were the proper Body of which that wicked Bishop was the proper Ministerial Head also there the Meeting about his deposing
free consent and namely that it was so vnder the Apostles which I have shewed “ Pag. 68. 69 before to be certainly true hence it followeth that it is a plaine vntruth a falshood which the Doct. so often “ Def. 1.28 and 4.2.3.38.39.46 affirmeth viz. that the Bishops in the Apostles time were such for the substance of their calling as ours now in England are Ours are sole governours they were not so They admitted the Congregations consent in all important matters of their governement ours do what they please without them yea commonly against their liking Besides the Apostolike Bishops had not any addition of Civill coactive power as ours have Last they had no mo ordinarie set Congregations to their pastorall charge but only one ours are the Pastors each of thē of many hundred Congregations All which are evident substantiall differēces in the churches and Bishops estate as hath ben also observed purposely “ Divine beginning of Christs true visib Church pag. 3. 4. 5. Declarat pag. 12. 13 14. Reas. for ref p. 41. 42. 43. els where In which respect the very ground which the D. buildeth on is false his very text Rev. 1.20 is misinterpreted abused so his Sermon whole Defence standing therevpon is frustrat And he doth Equivocat plainly Fiftly where the Christian people have their free consent in Church governement there never is seene anie Pluralist nor Nonresident Pastor For they wil never indure their Pastor to be a Nonresident from them nor yet to bee distracted with mo charges of soules then their owne Which certainly al that feare God and have care of them selves theirs will esteeme to bee a most godly thing to beholde Besides also they wil never indure any Covetous nor Proud nor adulterer nor drunkard nor ignorant nor false Teacher And as their Pastor and Guide is such will they bee also in a maner alwayes every where The adversary confesseth that “ D. Bils perp gov pag. 344 The wisedom of Gods Church in taking the cōsent of the people in the Election of their Bishops hee can not but commend he findeth so great and good effectes of it in the Church stories For thence it came to passe that the people when their desires were accomplished did quietly receave willingly maintaine diligently heare heartily love their Pastors yea venter their whole estate and hazard their lives rather thē then Pastors should miscarie Verily this sheweth it to bee Gods ordinance in that he accompanyeth it with such and so great blessings Contrariwise Pluralist-Pastors and Nonresidents who of any conscience can allow Who that hath any sparke of religion or care of good life doth not detest and abhorre them and most worthily as being in deed of the reliques of Antichrist and instruments of Satan All blindnes in the people and wicked conversation floweth from these as frō fountaines Continual iarres and warres betwene the Pastor and his flocke And therehence groweth contempt of Religion Yea questionles that which the Pest is in mans body the same are Nonresidents and Pluralitie-men in Christes Church Whose fruits are too plentifull among vs. Archb. Whitgift saith “ Answ to the Admon pag. 44. 45. Now the Church is full of hypocrites dissemblers drunk ands whoremongers Ignorant Papistes Atheistes and such like D. Bilson also †Perp. gov pag. 155. Toom Church comes all sortes Atheistes Hypocrites c. All which filth ought verilie to be imputed chiefly to Nonresidentes and Pluralists Now in Diocesan and Provinciall Churches and larger where the people have not their free consent in the Church governement there must of necessitie be Nonresidents and Pluralitie-men First the chief and best Pastor of a verie large Countrey hee whom they call the Angell of such a Church is no other indeede then a great Pluralist and Nonresident For he hath the proper charge of soules over “ Def. 3.145 2.67 all his Circuit as D. Down professeth they all holde That is to say over manie hundred ordinary set Congregations where for the most part they themselves are never present and never do fo much as see the faces of so many people of whom yet they vndertake to bee their proper Pastors Are not these huge Pluralists Nonresidents in the time of the Gospell And thus hee †Def. 2.127 approoveth Theodorets taking to him selfe to be Pastor of 800. parishes Yea it cometh to passe that some Bishops are Pastors to many mo Againe note how Do. Belson shrinketh not to make Pluralistes and Nonresidentes a Divine Ordinance and Apostolike which he doth to the end that Diocesan Bishops might seeme to be Divine Saith he against the mislikers of Pluralitie and Nonresidencie “ Perp gov pag. 328. Saint Paul him selfe knew not these curious positions when he appointed Titus to take charge and oversight of the whole Island of Crete and saw no cause why one man might not performe many Pastorall and Episcopall duties to all that were in the same Countrey with him And this touching the chiefe and best and †Pag. 247. only proper Pastor in a Diocesan Church and larger Secondly his Substitutes will all seeke to bee in proportion like their Superiors Whereof in deede there is great cause For if the most Angelike Pastor he who in his Office cometh nearest vnto Christ bee such that is so great a Pluralist and Nonresident then who in conscience can mislike Nōresidents Who would not desire to be plurifyed abundantly Who would not iudge the greatest Pluralist the worthiest Pastor most excellent servant of Christ I say even inferior Nonresidents and Pluralistes in such Church estates must needes not only aboūd but also superaboūd True reason requireth it and experience among our selves doth shew it Whereby what wofull wrack and havocke of mens soules is happened in our Lande every-where any that looke about consider may see And hee that seeth can not have so flintie a heart as not to sorrow and mourne for it Against which Spirituall desolation yea rather ruine and destruction no remedie can bee had without giving the Christian people their free consent in their spirituall governement For none have that care of other mens soules as Christian people would have of their owne Sixtly heere are other Consequents of a most high nature both in respect of God and also in respect of our selves First in respect of God thus I gather and conclude If this opinion be false viz. that the peoples consent in the Church governement is the Apostles ordinance and Christes immutable commaundement for vs then Christ in his New Testament is not the Teacher Institutor Framer “ Impious opinions Lord and Lawgiver of his Visible Church which is the Kingdome of heaven vpon earth At least hee only is not And the New Testament is not compleat nor all-sufficient for matters of Religion Nor so compleat as the Old Testament was And Christes divine Offices of Prophesie
conceave assurance to our soules of Gods gracious favor and everlasting goodnes if wee stande in that way which plainly is Christes Gal. 6.16 As many as walke according to this rule peace shal be vpon them mercy and vpon the Israel of God But contrariwise our adversaries allowing of two wayes in the Churches spirituall governement and administratiō the one Apostolike the other Humane both good as they say both changeable by men but neither of them any certain Ordinance or Cōmandement of Christ Againe when they make many “ Those which follow the doctrine of our Attestators before alleged thousand several Churches in the world to vse no other Calling of their Ministers but such as is of Mens institutiō and from naturall reason do they in this give assurance to mens consciences Nay it can not be At the least men standing in such state will often doubt and make question whether the spirituall blessings and graces of God in Christ bee promised or may bee instrumentally wrought in them by such a Ministerie no otherwise authorised and called then so For as it is most certain that God saveth no man Ordinarily but by Outward meanes that these Outward meanes are ordinarilie Christes Visible Church the Ordayning of Ministers and the administring of Gods Word Sacramentes and Censures therein so it is most vncertain and much to bee doubted whether God will acknowledge anie of these Outward meanes and instrumentes to be his or will give his ordinarie blessing vnto them working saith repētance sanctificatiō hereafter his heavēly glorie in vs by thē vnles the saide Outward meanes and instrumentes be simply of that forme and nature and bee exercised by the power and authoritie of such persons only as he himself hath specially ordayned and sanctifyed in his word to that purpose This doubt I say at least As also to stand vnder a Nōresidēt may breed this doubt will and must needes arise from the opinion of our adversaries And it can not but weaken the faith of many if in the end it do not wholy subvert it Which indeed may come to passe from this originall divers and sundry wayes But our vniforme cōstitution of the Church and administration thereof cutteth of all occasion of such doubting and leaveth our consciences safely resting on Christ alone And so much for this Seaventhly where this is held viz. that the peoples free consent ought to be alwayes in the Church governement there necessarily the Visible Catholike Church of Rome is ruined quite overthrowen and destroyed Yea this assertion of ours being made good her spirituall tyrannie vsurpation is easily demonstrated And there is no man who seeth not this But contrariwise many see not and many will not see till they feele that which yet is as certain and as sure a Consequence in true reason viz. that where the peoples consent in the Church governement is condemned and hated Advantage to the Pope by a Diocesan Church there the Church of Rome will get advātage and in time advancement againe notwithstanding that Civill Magistrates for a season doe what they can to resist the same I know many will at the first thinke this a Paradox yet verily it wil prove true For the Church of Rome not only in reason but by cleere rules of Divinitie and Religion must needes get ground of vs if we willingly give away this invincible Bullwarke and Fortresse against thē I meane Christes Visible Churches true and proper Nature and that both intensive Christes Visible Churches Nature Intensive which is the power of Spirituall governement receaved from Christ her Author and Founder wherein the Peoples free consent is comprehended as before I have often rehearsed Extensive and also the Extensive quantitie and Outward Body of the said Church which in the Gospell never reacheth to many Ordinarie Congregations nor to any Set circuit of ground at all as a Diocesan Church doth but to one ordinarie Congregation only as I haue “ Declarat pag. 18. elswhere plainly declared This is the true and proper Nature of Christes Visible Church in the New Testamēt And I would all men did cōsider this viz. that the effectuall defence of our faith against Poperie is must be the alleadging and pressing against them this Nature and proper Constitution of Christes saide Visible Church Without which we shall labor against them al in vaine and which our forefathers Zuinglius Luther and the rest wisely holding and maintayning as †Chapt. 3. 4. and pag. 102. 103. 104. above we have seene have easily mightily from thence by the sword of the Spirit whiche is the word of God put them to flight and quelled them And so may we do still but no otherwise In which regard it greeveth me often times when I see many of our Defenders of the truth against the Papistes being otherwise learned and godly yet dealing in this matter very vncircumspectly and I may say praeposterously Who make no great reckoning to stande with the Papistes vpon the proper Nature of Christes Visible Church A great cause why cur controversies com not to an and. or if they medle with it they do not strictly holde to that Nature forme thereof which is left vs in the N. Testament being plainly another and distinct from that of the Iewes vnder the Law This verily our men against that Adversarie do consider too little and they prosecute it lesse They treat more of Christes Invisible or Militant then of the Ministeriall Church So leaving the question in deed and labouring in things which touch not the point Whereby it cometh to passe that they resist thē not with that fruit as they might For wee must know that ordinarily the Church Ministeriall is the Meanes and instrument of true faith If the Meanes and procuring cause which is most sensible to vs be not first well cleered and mens consciences therein satisfyed and the same demonstrated plainly to bee of Divine institution the doctrine of faith besides will bee but vncertain If any say Our Forefathers overcame the Papistes by the word of God cutting downe their other foule errors Obiection viz. Purgatorie Free-will Auricular confession Reall presence Images Praying to Saints Iustification by workes c. They overcame them not by affirming that the people ought to have alwayes their free cōsent in Church governement And so may wee also overcome them still I answere Men are much deceaved that do thus thinke Answ Our Forefathers as I said by this verie assertion that the people ought to have their said free consent did vtterly overthrow the Papistes and without this they could not possibly have so done For vnles this assertion had ben true neither could the first Protestant Pastors bee truly authorised and called neither could any of the Protestants at first lawfully have forsaken the Roman Church whereof they all stood members And then I pray how could they have overcome them Nay it had
obey in all doubtes of conscience and questions of faith will easily make a great shew that he is the common Father and that all Princes ought to bee his Sonnes and that their States are appointed of God through Christ for the said Churches inheritance And therefore that they may bee brought vnder this Churches Holy Fathers obedience “ By what meanes soever vijs modis if the saide Church and her friendes can any way effect it Yea so far they may indeavour the advancement and inlargement of this Church into the possessions which Christ hath left to his Vicar if he can get them that in procuring the same they may ordine ad Deum lawfully destroy all obstinate resisters hinderers thereof But most of all where any States or Princes have ben formerly of that Church In such case they thinke by a double right they may iustly and ought necessarily seeke their conversion or confusion But all honest and truly religious Christians do heerein plainly see the pride of Antichrist Wherefore I will vnfolde this packe of spirituall and temporal mischiefes no farther Only I would to God that Governours and people also did marke the true Origen and fountaine of all this as they feele the harme that cometh of it Last of all from the due consideratioÌ„ of the forerehearsed points which have ben heere plainly and truly laid open it followeth and it is manifest that many among vs who would seeme to see somewhat in the knowledge of the Gospell do very fondly and improvidently say that our controversies in the Church of England are but for trifles and thinges indifferent and about Circumstances only not for any Substantial matters They who have any sense of their owne good or feare of future falling away of brethren can not but perceave the vanitie yea in deed the plaine follie and vntruth of such sayings First P. Martyr saith “ P. Mart. epist ad Domin Polon Wee must confesse the Church governement to bee not the least part of Christian religion and that the Gospell seemeth to be neglected by them who put away from them so excellent a part thereof Maister Cartwright affirmeth that it is †T. C. 1. pag 48. 2 247 of the Substance of the Gospell and that “ T. C. 1.26 2.570 the kinde of governement is a matter necessary to salvation and of faith And so Calvin saith as before I noted †Calv epist ad Sadoleâ— In illa Ecclesia formâ quam Apostoli constituerunt vnicum habemus verae Ecclesia exemplar a quo si quis vel minimum deslectit aberrat In that Forme of the Church which the Apostles seâ— downe we have the only patterne of a true Church from which if any bend aside never so little he erreth And thus in another place hee saith “ Instit 4.1.1 Externa subsidia Deuâ— quoque addidit quo infirmitatâ— nostra coÌ„suleret God hath also added Outward meanes and helpes whereby he may provide for our infirmitie Shewing that eveÌ„ touching Outward means our infirmitie is not holpen but by such only as God ordaineth for vs. See the Divine beginning institution of Christes Visible Church And that it is the worke of God to institute the Outward meanes in the exercise of religion the principall whereof is the Forme of the Visible Church and Governement Men can not institute this neither ought any to attempt so much for that is to intrude in Gods office Agreeable heerevnto is that which I have written in my “ Declarat pag. 38. c. Declaration where I shew that vnder the Gospell the forme of Christes Visible Church the kinde of governement and Calling of the Ministerie are matters of substance in religion fundamentall And more fully in a proper place for this point viz. in my Exposition of the second Commandement A true and plaine Exposition of the â— Com. Where I make it manifest that Mens institutions in these matters are a direct breach and violation of Gods sacred Lawe and Divine Commandement to vs even of the â—cond Commandement in the Decalogue and withall that Christes ordinances heerein are in deed partes of Gods true worship matters of doctrine matters of faith matters of substance in religion and ordinarily necessarie to salvation For these Outward Meanes where they are right true that is of Divine institution “ Before pag. 155. they are the instrumentall worke is and causes of inward grace and life to our soules and those that are of men are contrary Nothing in religion more important no thing more waighty then the Controversies now in England For by the true Outward Meanes as by ordinary Instrumentes God coÌ„veyeth to vs his grace giveth vs faith and bringeth vs to salvation God saveth vs not without meanes nor ordinarily without these meanes before named nor with or by these meanes being of Mens institution and invention and tradition His owne ordinances only hee sanctifyeth and blesseth Hee promiseth a blessing only to them to Mens devices though they seeme never so plausible or probable in the reason of men yet he giveth nothing hee promiseth nothing we can bee assured of nothing by them vnles it be of Gods anger Which indeed we may be sure of These then are no small matters I am sure nor Circumstances in religion but matters of substance as I said and such as wee ought first to know and vnderstand in our Christian professioÌ„ before we can reape firme assurance to our soules Without our vnderstanding the truth and falshood of these Outward meanes our whole faith and religion may soone bee shaken overturned specially in these distracted times Yea the manifold ill Consequentes before noted do all hange vpon the vniustifyable form and nature of Christs Visib Church the Ministerie and their Calling Which are the special matters of controversie now in England And particularly the Church of Romes advantage against vs I have somewhat opened “ Pag. 156.157 c. before viz. because the sacred right of Christes faithfull people touching their free consent in Church governement is denyed But in this I have ben to long The waightines of this matter touching the lawfull right making of Ministers and the perill of erring therein hath drawen mee to say so much In regard of all which wee may seâ— also the great cause which they had who published the Offer of Conference disputation The Offer of ConfereÌ„ce why it was published not long since Whereby they desired a iust and equall tryall which hitherto they could never have of these thinges which do so certainly touch the safetie of our soules Chiefly considering how violently they have ben overborne afflicted and despised in this cause as also they still are Moreover by this before delivered their affirmation is shewed evidently to bee true which the Doctor so ignorantly “ Def. 1 3â— skorneth where they say that †Considerâ—tion 6. some of the
this †Pag. 65. The Apoâ—les appointed Ministers to whole Cities and Countryes adioyning to labor so far as they â—ere able the conversion of all True What â—hen Therefore they appointed them â—o stande Ministers still to whole Ciâ—ies and Countryes adioyning I deny â—his consequence It is a plaine fallacie â—b eo quod est secundum quâ—d Fallaciâ— ad simpliciter 〈◊〉 pray Sir when Logike fayleth you play not the Sophister The Apostles appointed Ministers to convert what they could in great Cities and Countries adioyning yea and in the whole “ Math. 13.33 world but not to stand Ministers Pastors to all them when they should be converted But only according tâ— the order and forme of a Church seâ— downe in the New Testament Which representeth to vs each Ordinarie Congregation as an entire Church Wherefore they might not remayne as Pastors to all when all were converted because so Ordinarie Pastors after the time of the New Testament should become substantially contrary to the ordinary Pastors constituted in the New Testament It i Ì„s blasphemie to avouch that the Apostles intended the Churches forme should be substantially coÌ„trary to that which is in the New Testament Which certainly was never the Apostles intent it is no lesse then blasphemie for any that will persist in saying the Apostles intended so You will aske how are Pastors so large and so generall contrary substantially to Pastors of but one ordinarie Congregation I answer they are substantially coÌ„trary in that these may and do admit the Christian peoples free consent in Church governement the other can not these caÌ„ personally administer to their whole flocke they possibly can not but by Substitutes and Curates as wee call them For there the proper Pastors them selves are of necessitie must be grand Pluralistes and NoÌ„residents Which plainly are substantiall differences in Pastors Besides that the one can execute a whole and intire Pastorall Office the other can not c. as “ Declarat Pag. 12.13.14 15 16. â— els-where I have more fully declared His 2. reason is this †Def. 2.69 In the Apostles times the Churches were not divided into Parishes â—or Presbyters assigned to their several Cures Therefore then a Church was not a Paâ—ish I answere Heere againe hee doth nothing but Equivocat Let him vnderstand a Parish in that sense as before have defined it Pa. 204.205 and so I affirme that by the very Apostles the Churches were divided into severall Parishes That is â—ach Church was it selfe a distinct Paâ—ish and severally divided from all oâ—her Also the Presbyters then were assigned to their severall cures viz. to these Parishes or Churches But if hee â—ake a Parish as it is a Congregation liâ—ited within a certaine circuit of â—round and as a Dioces is subdivided â—nto many of them as they are now so â—ve speake not of them Yet commonly â—r altogeather †Pag. 77. hee doth so speake of â—hem Wherefore heere every man may â—â—e his vanitie Hee doth fly the true â—uestion and shufleth in things that â—e never intended Then his grosse vnâ—ruth vnschollerlike assertion ought 〈◊〉 bee marked where he saith “ Pag 75. The â—ord Ecclesia is of a larger extent then to sigâ—â—fy only one assembly I appeale to all auâ—entike Greeke Authors Thucidides Deâ—osthenes Plato Aristotle Isocrates c. Out â—f whom plentifull allegations may be brought all of them shewing that this word Ecclesia did evermore signifie only one assembly and never a dispersed multitude holding many ordinary set meetings in far remote places as Diocesan and larger Churches do Now according to these and other Greekes living in the Apostles dayes doe the Apostles speake And this I have heeretofore often “ Reas. for ref pag 64. Declarat pag 31. 32. above pa. 110. propounded and affirmed as a principall ground and cause of our dissent from the Church state in England And the ground is certain it can not be with reason spoken against The D. heere †Pag. 14. 15. putteth in to the contrary the vse of the word Ecclesia in Eusebius who vseth it to signify sometimes a Diocesan and Provinciall Church Hee doth so sometimes I deny it not And so after him the Fathers do vse the word likewise as Epiphanius Theodoret Chrysostome and the Councilles and Historie writers c. All this we know well But what have wee to doe with these Authors so late and so partiall as these all were touching the exposition of the Greeke word Ecclesia The time that Eusebius wrote in When Eusebius wrote was about 340. yeares of Christ or little lesse All the rest wrote after him At which time or before viz. presently vnder Constantine the outward forme of the Church did so alter and change from that vnder the Apostles even in substantiall points of Church politie or in such points as did come neere to the substance of it that it appeared outwardly to be allmost not the same And as the state of the Church altered so the Fathers and Councills which were then much affecting that state did alter the old vse of â—he words pertaining to these matters As they practised so likewise they spake and wrote And so have most men followed after them Wherby at the last Antichrist was vndoubtedly advanced But our noble “ Our Attestators before mentioned specially pag. 104. after pag. 214. forefathers of late having discovered this mysterie of iniquitie have found out also the corruption depravation even of this word Ecclesia which hath ben extended larger and farther then Apostolically it was The which abuse of this very word doubtles was a pregnant reason and meanes among other to extend the Church and Governement thereof to that Vniversalitie which it came to and is still vehemently chalenged by the Catholiks Wherefore great cause have we ad originem reverti to go backe even vp to the first originall and beginning as Cyprian well adviseth vs. For so saith he cessat error humanus thus and not otherwise error which hath begun from men will cease Wherefore wee must refuse Eusebius Epiphanius Theodoret and all either in or after their times for iudges or interpreters of matters or words specially touching Church-governement The forme whereof inclined toward alteration yea somewhat before them as wee may perceave in “ Can 6. Nic. Concilâ— through Humane ambition and desyre of greatnes which is incident even to the godliest best men But vnder Constantin and after it degenerated much more Wherfore in “ See before pa. 125. 127. conscience to God and to his blessed word we must leave all men when they so palpably differ from the Scripture as in this cause they doe cleave only and vnseparably to the plaine and †Math 22.29 Ioh. 5.39.40 Isa 8.20 proper writing of Christs Testament Hee “ In his chap. 5. indeavoureth to make voide some of our reasons against Diocesan Churches vnder
are not perpetuall Evangelistes are not perpetuall also Bishops yea Presbyters are not perpetuall in Churches vnder the Gospell But a Congregation is perpetuall absolutly “ Math. 16. â—â— the gates of destruction shall never overcome it Wherefore this power is essentially in the Congregation And so the consequence is false “ Pag. 77. These directions are perpetuall therfore peculiar to Bishops I say this sequele can not bee true Wherewith is conioyned an other false reason viz. They were not common either to other Christians or other Ministers therfore peculiar to Bishops Nay they were common They may bee and are exercised by divers formes of administrations as before I shewed not all waies by Bishops And yet I grant thy are to bee exercised most commonly vsually and ordinarily by Bishops I meane true Bishops His owne distinction heere is good There is †Pa. 102. 147 potestas and forma vel modus potestatis The power the accidentall forme and maner of the power It is true the power is perpetuall the accidentall forme or maner thereof is variable In which respect the consequence also of his newe “ Pa. 77. Proposition which †Pag. 78. once againe he taketh for granted once againe I deny The proofe of his Assumption we grant yet with a distinction In the Epistles to Tim. and Tit. the office of Bishops is described generally but not as peculiar to Bishops materially not formally And only so that power was to continue in the Church till the end Also this viz. materially that power was not a higher power then Episcopall But formally it was And so his consequence is false For an Evangelists power was higher yea the Churches power by whom simply sometime both the making of Ministers and Censures are performed is “ 1. Cor. 3.22 higher then the Bishops power Againe hee saith this power of Bishops is so much of the Apostolical power as was to coÌ„tinue to the end But then hee should not make the Bishops power more then the Apostolicall as †See before pag. 240. 248 hee doth Which thus also appeareth viz. the Apostles excluded not the peoples consent but his Bishops doe Howe then saith hee it is Apostolicall Besides in all this hee Equivocateth for this power of Bishops is the Apostles as I said generally not properly materially not formally Hee would finde “ Pag. 79. a difference in his Refuter but it is easily reconciled viz. vnderstanding him of divers kindes of Bishops thus Some kinde of Bishops are in Christs Testament some absolutly have noe place there The former have power from Christ the later have none After hee maketh great outcries of †Pag. 80. 81. Schismatical novelties dreames dotages fantasticall fanaticall spirits and phrensie Right as the Papists cry out Haeretiks Haeretiks TheÌ„selves being the greatest Haeretiks of all But the ChritstiaÌ„ reader may know that this is the Doctors fury malice against our Attestators before cited and against others also who follow them Yea against “ See before pag. 73. 74. c. himselfe it is some of his frindes His slaÌ„der that we maintain such popular government as Morellius strived for is sufficieÌ„tly answered †Pag. 24. before Some of the Separation I grant are to offensive this way which I am heartily sory for They take the wordes in Math. 18.17 Tell the Church more popularly theÌ„ ther is need or then reason or good order would Howbeit in this yet they hold the substaÌ„ce of the true Church-goverm They erre but in the CircumstaÌ„ce of order though it be to “ Bera Anâ—â— cat in Math. 18.17 foule That is they will examine al scandalls c. whatsoever in the presence vnder the iudgment of the whole multitude perpetually necessarily I say perpetually necessarily Wherein I wonder they see not the many very ill Consequents which wil must insue many times As touching vs what we hold heerin I have shewed †Pag. 22. 24. 82. 83. before And our Docts doe most iniuriously “ Def. 4.81 Perp. gov pag. 355. wrong Beza the Geneva discipline if that be Geneva discipline which Viret Calvin Beza taught theÌ„ in saying they differ materially froÌ„ vs. Our D. asketh Is there any shew in Scripture or in reasoÌ„ that the sheep should rule their sheapheard or the flocke their Pastor The very voice of a Iesuit not of a Minister of the Gospel Bellarm. argueth iust so “ Bellarm. de Clersc 1. 7. against the old ProcestaÌ„ts As to the point let him know that reasonable sheep vnder the Gosp have more to do in their spiritual governmeÌ„t theÌ„ brute beastes have to doe in their governement sensuall Lastly heere hee can easily skoffe and revile the modest Christian offer of disputatioÌ„ those that favour it some of vs hee will helpe to persecute but vndertake that Offer honestly plainly he never will Hee saith †Pag. 82. wee vnderstand the speech of “ 1. Tim. 5.22 Laying on of hands as directed not to Timothie but to the people to Titus †Tit. 3.10 Avoid an haeretik or excommunicat him that is thou people Which is falfe we vnderstand it not so He doth therfore heerin slaÌ„der vs. We know these words are directed to Timothie Titus yet to them not as Lords over the people nor as Sole rulers but as Guides and directors of them As Fathers to informe them not as Maisters to overrule them and force them To them therefore by name as the principall Agents in all ordinary government the Epistles and these precepts were written And so the Apostle heere held it not needfull to mention the people though neither doth he exclude them Seeing their consent in such affaires is “ See before pag. 76. Also toward the end of this chap. elswhere in Scripture sufficiently proved And the Apostles practise in this behalfe they knew well enough Which knowen practise of the Apostles it heere behoved Timothie Titus to have regard vnto togeather with these precepts written to them For they stand togeather well enough He saith the Churches at first were governed by the Apostles c. I answere they were But not without the peoples concurrence and consent as presently before is observed But D. Downame avouched †Def. 4 8â— Our Bishops at this day have not greater authoâ—â—tie in menaging Church causes then Timothie and Titus had Which is notoriously vntrue These following the Apostles tooke the peoples consent with them our Bishops do not They only taught them perswaded them vsed spirituall power ours if they can not perswade the people or their Pastors will cast them in prison punishing their bodyes their purses He saith Timothie Titus might vse the presense or consent of the people or the counsell and advise of the Presbyters in 〈◊〉 of greatest moment as Princâ—s doe in Common-wealths I thought it was a stately
governement differ substantially Which difference I know not who hath touched heeretofore and included in any Definition In so much that from hence hath arisen no small occasion of grievous errors Howbeit yet for the precise name of Definition or Description I strive not let men call it what they will Only I take mine to bee convertible with Christs true Visib Church vnder the Gospell and that sufficeth me Further some thinke it long For whose sakes I will heere againe set downe in effect the same Definition though in other words more short Thus it is A DefinitioÌ„ of Christs true Visible Church A Visible Church of Christ vnder the Gospell is a Spirituall Body politike of no mo ordinarie Congregations then one the people also having power of free coÌ„sent in their ordinarie governement This is shorter yet as full as the other Secondly whereas Do. Downame in his booke of his Sermon and Defence picketh out mee in particular besides his proper antagonist to traduce and calumniat I held it necessarie to Answer him in the pointes that concerne me and by the way some other adversaries now and then who oppugne this cause also which is the originall of all their il will against me Professing for my part that my purpose is heereafter to cease this manner of dealing in this matter vnles I might do it vpoÌ„ more equall conditions which I do not expect The Lord I doubt not wil raise vp others that shall more effectually beare witnes vnto this truth in due time Even vntill the Toleration heereof in England which hath ben most Christianly Supplicated for shal finde grace and favor in his Maiesties eyes for the which I shall not cease to pray continually Thirdly whereas the Writings and Disputes about this cause have ben and are very many intricat and tedious I have heere indeavoured to make the vnderstaÌ„ding thereof short easie and perspicuous Namely by reducing the whole substance of this controversie only to 2. Heads The sumnâ—â— and substance of all our controversie viz. the Peoples free consent in their ordinarie Church governement and that the extent of Christes true Visible Church vnder the Gospel containeth one and not many ordinarie Congregations Which 2. points being plainly and honestly handled will bring an end of other differences also which are vsually considered in our generall controversie I hope therefore this my indeavour will bee profitable to such as would vnderstaÌ„d this cause briefly and distinctly at least my intent was that it should be being my selfe very desirous to draw our long contention as much as I could to a short issue Fourthly I desire that this and all other my writings may be not sinisterly taken Being with much vehemencie charged that for no iust cause I have refused to conforme to the Church order in England I could therefore do no lesse but give out yea vnto posteritie the the true and most important Reasons of my dissenting heerein Also I have ben constrayned by Do. Downame and such other to cleere and confirme the said reasons And this is the only true cause as the Lord knoweth of all my writing Which how iust it is I desire all fearing God vprightly to consider Fiftly I pray all good Christians not to forget nor neglect the due consideration of this matter but to waigh with them selves how important it is indeed Which I have somwhat largely opened before in the “ CoÌ„sequent 5.6.7 8. pag. 129. c. 7. Chapter in divers and sundry respectes It preserveth Christs Honor Ordinance and casteth out Humane Tradition it bringeth to our selves true assurance and cutteth of from the Papistes and others all pretence which otherwise against vs is not little Sixtly the verie Attestation of those most worthie Divines and Churches which heere I alleage gathered out of their publike recordes shall I hope abundantly acquit both my selfe and many other faithfull servantes of Christ in the iudgement of all honest and sounde Christians from the most iniurious slanders given out by D. Downame and other adversaries to our reproach among the ignorant as namely where they call vs Shismatikes Innovators Enemies of Vnitie c. When men shall perceave that we are indeed taught these assertions which wee holde not to speake of the Scripture out of Zuinglius Luther Bucer F. Martyr Viret Musculus Bullinger Gualter Chemnieius Vrsinus Iunius Danaeus Calvin and Beza with many other like rare men of God all coÌ„senting togeather in the substance of these points as before I have shewed more at large then it will be a sufficient satisfactioÌ„ to them on our behalfes And our adversaries shall finde it to be well with them if they themselves can stande cleere of the said crimes of Schisme Noveltie Enmitie to vnitie peace and truth of the Gospell Nay verily they can not stande cleere of these crimes Last of all these our worthy Attestators Teachers shall I hope likewise yet have so much credit and honor yeelded to them in England that their Disciples shall not for their doctrine only bee afflicted imprisoned and more severely punished then those that professe to be the Disciples of the Romish Enemie An enemie indeed not conceited both to Christ to our King the Realme In which hope and full perswasion I humbly commend all this that I have Lud to Gods holy providence gracious blessing to all Christians chatable vpright iudgement To God only wise through Iesus Christ bee praise for ever and ever AMEN An Addition THAT the abusers of Mai. Beza and Mai. Calvin about Mat. 18.17 may see their ill doing I thought good to set downe heere some more of their testimonies a part by themselves Which shew plainly that howsoever they seeme sometime to speake not so warily as they might touching the word Ecclesia in this place calling it the Church-Senat or Presbyterie yet their true and right meaning indeed is that here Ecclesia signifyeth not the Church Senat only meerely as some obstinatly charge theÌ„ to meane They do heere in this word comprehend also the people and their power of free coÌ„sent in Excommunication which is the matter spokeÌ„ of by Christ in this place of Math. I say here in this word they include the people also teach that they must be tolde and that they must be hearkened vnto in a degree in a certain order viz. mediatly finally They intend not that Christ heere committeth this busines to the Presbyterie only and absolutly Thus saith Beza vpon this word “ Bez. Annotat in Mat. 18.17 Doceo Aristocratiam non esse novum institutum Dei verbo Democratiae Ecclesiastica repugnans sicut nonnulls ex vnicâ voculâ temerè arreptâ sunt arbitrati And presently before â—e saith Neque verò Oligarchiam velim in â—cclesiam Dei invehi quae illam tantopere deâ—rmavit atque adeò penitùs transformavit â—lso †In Mat. 16.18 Vocabulo Ecclesiae significari Civium â—nventum nemo