A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE OR DISPVTATION ABOVT the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late silenced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents 1. Thess 5.21 Trie all things and keepe that which is good Ioh. 7.24 Iudge not according to the appearance but iudge righteous iudgment Ioh. 18.23 If I have evill spoken beare witnes of the evill but if I haue well spoken why smitest thou me Imprinted 1606. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTIE PRINCE IAMES BY THE GRACE OF GOD KING of great Britaine France and Ireland Defender of the faith c. MOst High and mightie Soveraigne As it is the office of every Christian to endevour by all good lawfull meanes to procure the peace and prosperitie of Sion so is it principally required of the Ministers of the Gospell of Iesus Christ not onely that they be Gods Remēbrancers giving him no rest untill he set up Ierusalem the prayse of the world but also that they be humble suiters unto those that under him be in supreme soveraigne Authority that according to their places they will become nursing Fathers nursing Mothers to the Churches of God within their Dominions And as this is a duety that lyeth both upon Minister people at all times for the neglect whereof they shal be accountable to that great and mightie God whose servants they are so are they then especially to be carefull of it when they see the truth of God and the Ordinances of Christ Iesus the sole King and Prophet of his Church to be opposed oppugned and the syncere Professors of the Gospell maligned and traduced yea oppressed and in a sort troden under foote by men who seeke nothing but themselues and who for the maintayning of their owne Pompe and for the feeding of their idle bellies stick not to wrest the Scepter out of the handes of Christ and to thrust him out of his chaire of Estate The consideration hereof most deare and dread Soveraigne hath imboldened vs Gods most unworthy servants your Maiesties loving and loyall Subiectes at this time to cast downe our selues at your royall feete and to craue your Princely favour Your Maiestie knoweth right well what Controversies there haue been amongst us in this lād about the Prelacy Ceremonies Subscriptiō ever since the bright shinīg beames of the glorious Gospell of Christ first dispelled chased away the foggie mistes black darknes of Popery from out of our coastes You know likwise how hotely egarly the Approbatiō of these things hath been vrged by the Prelates who being wise in their generation haue left no stone vnrolled for the upholding of their ruinous tottering kingdome they having from time to time not onely reviled and disgraced both in Pulpit and in Print those whom they call their brethren and fellow servants of Iesus Christ who out of a fervent Zeale of the glorie of God and a perfect detestation of Poperie haue witnessed against these Corruptions but having also suspended deprived degraded and imprisoned them yea caused them to be turned out of house and home denyed them all benefit of law and used them with such contempt contumely as if they were not worthy to liue upon the face of the earth Shall these Controversies be kept a-foote for ever Shall they not once be finally decided determined Will it not be misery in the latter end if the Prelates be not restrained in time It is true that bookes haue been and are daily written on both sides and yet the differences are as great and greater now then they were at the first and so are like still to be unles by speciall order from your Maiestie the matter may once come to some such direct and iust Triall as is heere offered Wherein that your Maiestie may be the more willing and readie to harken unto us we beseech you to consider and that seriously that the Cause which here we present unto you is not our owne but that it is the Cause of Christ Iesus who is become a Suiter vnto you and desireth that he may haue Audience for whom whatsoever you shall doe it shal be remembred unto you and abundātly recompensed at that great last day of account when you shall come to stand before his Tribunall who is King of Kinges and Lord of Lords who is not unrighteous that he should forget any thing that is done for him or for any cause of his And howsoever the Prelates and their followers do beare your Maiestie in hand that the Church-Government desired is an enemy to your Crowne and dignitie beleeue them not we hūbly beseech you neither harken to their Syren songes It is as we are readie to proue a holy Ordinance of God which will stand when all such as oppose it and blaspheme it in the eares of your Royall Maiestie shall melt away as snow before the Sunne And if by such an indifferent Conference as is heere tendered we shall not make it as cleere unto your Maiestie as the Sunne at Noone-day that the Governement of the Churches of Christ by Pastors Teachers and Elders is much more agreeable to the State of a Monarchy then is the present Governement by Archbishops Bishops Archdeacons Commissaries and the rest of that Romish Hierarchy let us then finde no favor in your Maiesties eyes Your Maiestie professed before you came to the Crowne that you did equally loue honor the learned graue men of either of these opinions Basil. dor Epist pag 11. and it is no small heartes-griefe unto us that since your comming into this land your Affections are so alienated estranged from us who haue done you no hurt in the world but haue wished you all the good that your owne soule desireth nay who before we saw your face laboured by all good meanes not without some danger to promote your Maiesties iust Title to this Crowne and haue ever since caryed our selues duetifully towards your Maiestie and peaceably in the service of God and of his Churches We are not ignorant what the Prelates doe pretend and what they suggest continually in your Princely eares they cry out against us with open mouth that we are stubberne and refractarie persons and enemies to your Soveraigne Authoritie wherein they doe both highly abuse your Maiestie and wrong us exceedingly For it is well knowne and the Lord beareth us witnes that we doe in the singlenes and synceritie of our heartes ascribe much more unto your Maiestie and the Civill authoritie under you then any Prelate in the land either doth or is willing to doe And for the matters in question we professe heere in the presence of that great God before whom we shall one day appeare to answer it if we speake not the truth that we stand not against them out of any wilfulnes or peevishnes but out of the tendernes of
our CoÌ„sciences as being perswaded in our very soules that we cannot yeeld unto them without sinning against Christ Iesus whose Ministers and Messengers we are And if upon such a due Triall of our cause as is desired the truth of the ensuing Propositions which are the speciall groundes on which we stand shal be infringed by the Prelates nay if we shall not be able to make them so cleere and manifest by the infallible undeniable evidence of the holy word of God that who so doth not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe may plainely see and discerne the truth of them we doe heere promise and binde our selues in the word of Christians that we will presently change our mindes and become wholly Conformable to the present State Wherefore we being herein privy to our owne uprightnes both to God to our Soveraigne cannot but conceiue some hope notwithstanding all the contrary plottes and practises of the Prelates that your Maiestie who are even as an Angell of God to discerne betweene good and evill wil be pleased now at last both to take a more exact knowledge of our cause and out of the tender bowells of your compassion to thinke upon and pity the distressed estate not onely of us the Lordes poore servants who are without any iust cause cast out from serving at his Altar but also of the Churches of Christ in this land which doe mourne and grone under the burden of humane Traditions Oh that this should be told at Gath or published in the streetes of Ashkelon amongst the daughters of the uncircumcised that under the Governement of so worthily renowned and famous a Prince the Churches of God haue been thus miserably wasted and such a woful havock made in them by vsurping time-serving Prelates as the like hath never been heard of in this land under the Gospell Oh that this should be either said or written in succeeding ages that in the raigne of Noble King Iames whose name shall liue amongst men when he having finished his course shall sleepe with his Fathers so many painefull Preachers of the Gospell even three hundred or there-aboutes haue in one yeere and a litle more been turned out of Christs service onely for refusing such Ceremonies as haue their life breath and being from Poperie and such a Subscription as the like for ought we know hath neuer been urged upon any Church of Christ in any age under a Christian Magistrate there being in the meane time whole swarmes of idle Idole scandalous Popish and Non-resident Ministers tolerated every where amongst us The Prelates haue left no meanes of rigour and extremitie vnassayed for the suppressing of this cause and for the discouraging and daunting of all those that either speake or write for it and yet the glorious evidence of the truth is such that it wanteth no witnesses there being at this day many hundreds of the most painefull profitable Preachers in this Kingdome besides those alreadie turned out which are readie to lose both their Ministery their Maintenance and to expose themselues theirs to all manner of misery rather then they will renounce this Cause and conforme themselues to the Corruptions of the times If therefore there be in the Prelates any loue of the truth or any sparke of desire of the peace and prosperitie of our Churches which is the thing that they so much pretend unto your Maiestie it will now appeare and shew it self and you shall easily discerne it by their indeavour to procure the admittance of this Offer which is the likeliest the readiest way that hitherto hath been thought upon both to finde out the truth and to put a perpetuall end to all these long-continued Controversies Some other thinges there be which we would willingly haue brought to this or the like Triall as namely the Oth ex officio which is a cruell a racking of the minde as the most exquisite Torture can be of the body and sundrie of the late Canons But because they be of another nature and we take them to be not onely contrary to the word of God but also directly against the lawes of the land we mention them not in our Propositions in which we haue endevoured to set downe onely the groundes of all the maine differences betwixt us the Prelats which if they be once throughly debated soundly agreed upon your Maiestie shall see such a blessed vnitie and vniformitie in all the Churches within your Dominions as your owne heart desireth May it therfore please your most excellent Maiestie to reade examine this Offer to weigh in all the partes therof the equitie iustice of it the most certaine advantage that the truth on which side soever it is shall receiue by the acceptance of it may it please you likewise to urge the Prelates whom it deepely concerneth to admitt of it and to secure by Royall protection those that shal be Actors in it who howsoever they are forced to conceale their names in regard of the rigor and severitie of the Prelates will notwithstanding be most willing readie to shew themselues if your Maiestie shall vouchsafe to signifie your gratious pleasure touching the admittance of this Conference If therefore we haue found favour in your Maiesties eyes and if this great cause of Christs be regarded Our humble suite vnto your Highnes is that you would make it knowne by some publike Act that the Offer shal be accepted and they protected by your Royall Authority that haue or shall haue to doe in it So shall we haue occasion every day more and more to intreat the Lord as we haue done and will doe for ever that he will continue vpon your Maiestie with a happy increase all his graces both bodily and spirituall even untill and in the day of Christ The Lord Iesus blesse your Maiestie and your Royall posteritie and graunt vnto you a long and a happie raigne over us the Lord multiplie all his mercyes upon you both for this and a better life and cover with shame the faces of all such as wish you the least evill Amen Your Majesties obedient Subjects most readie to doe your will in all thinges wherein they shall not disobey the will of God Some of the late silenced and deprived Ministers A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE or disputation about the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late sâ—â—nced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents Wherein are set downe 1. The Propositions which the Ministers offer to maintaine against the Prelats 2. The Conditions forme and maner of the Conference or Disputation 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this Offer 4. An Answer to such opposisions as may be made by the Prelats against yeeiding to the said Offer 1. THE PROPOSITIONS VVHICH THE MINISTERS OFfer to maintaine against the Prelats 1. ALL matters meerely
subject only to the authoritie and jurisdiction of the Civill Magistrate to whom at all times they are willing and readie to yeeld an account of all their actions and to humble themselues under their censures for any thing they shal be found to offend in Conforming themselues unto their willes in all things alwayes so farre as they may with a good conscience and where they cannot so doe submitting themselues to all such punishment as it shall please them to impose upon them 15. That if it seeme not good to his Majestie the state for reasons best knowne unto themselues to admit of so indifferent honest and reasonable a Conference yet it would please them to requyre the Prelats to publish a direct and full answer to such bookes as haue upon occasioÌ„ of the late stormes been published viz. The Abridgement set forth by the Ministers of Lincolne Diocese The Demands Considerations Reasons proving a necessitie of reforming our Churches in England The old Protestant and New formalist The Treatise of Divine worship The 12 Arguments The English Puritanisme and the Protestation c And that it may be lawfull for the Ministers modestly and directly to reply vnto the said Answers as also to any of the bookes which are lately or haue been heertofore written against them their cause and to publish the same in print with leaue of authority which they under take and binde themselues with all convenient speed faithfully and honestly to performe they protesting heere before Almightie God the searcher of all hearts and the just revenger of all hypocrisie that to their knowledge there hath as yet no material thing been writteÌ„ against them in these foresaid Propositions or any other Controversie betwixt them and the Prelats but they are able to giue a reasonable and just reply unto the same and that by those bookes which haue been published against them they haue been rather confirmed strengthened in the sayd opinions which they hold against the Prelats then any way satisfied or answered as shall appeare to all the world by Gods gracious assistance if they may haue permitted unto them that liber tie to publish their writings to the world which the Pre lats take unto themselues 16. That if this most reasonable and just course of composing these controversies be denyed them yet at least they may haue free leaue to publish and to offer to the censure of the whole world nakedly and playnly all those several Arguments Reasons which they haue thought upon for the confirmation of the former Propositions as also their direct Answers to all such Arguments on the contrary side as they shall finde publâ—shed in the writings of the Prelats and their adherents In all which they promise to keepe themselues closely directly to the poynts in controversy in so strict a forme that it shal be most easy for the Prelats to giue an answer unto them if so be they be in error in holding the said Propositions 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this offer MAny of the Ministers having by reason of their Deposition from the publike Ministerie more cause occasion and leasure to studie these controversies then before doe find that the more they wade into them the more they are confirmed in that truth for which they suffer So that howsoever the intendment of the Prelats hath been by their rigorous extremitie of affliction to make them to force their consciences against conscience to yeeld that so they might rejoyce in their flesh and though the Lord hath surrered their rod to the further hardening of their hearts to ly so heavie upon some of his servants that they haue put forth their hand to injquitie yet othersome by this meanes are so far from shrinking from the profession of that truth which by their sufferings they haue honored that the more they haue sustayned for it the more by the mercy of God they see the glorious evidence of it And therefore in honor vnto that heavenly truth they can do no lesse then in the feare of God make this offer vnto the greatest enemyes therof 2. This cause which the ministers professe and witnes vnto by their constant sufferings being as they are perswaded in theire very soules and consciences a divine sacred truth and being notoriously reviled and blasphemed as a hellish error by the mouthes of the prelats their favourers one saying that he damned the discipline to Hell froÌ„ whence it came Vaghan his Conâ—orie in uses Powel de diap pref others publishing in print that Christ is not the Lawgiver of his Churh all generally calling our doctrine and opinion in this cause Schisme and Haeresie yea Treason and Rebellion they having receaued this grace from God not only to see the truth heerein but to seale and confirm it by their sufferings thinke it a most bounden duty that they owe vnto their Lord and master Iesus Christ whose Ministers and Servants they are by all good meanes to iustifie the same yea though they neither had suffered nor should suffer for it Much more now when as by the providence of God they haue in themselues their wiues and children sustained indured so heavy things for it And a more honest moderat Christian and religious defence or Apology they cannot yeld vnto it theÌ„ by making such an offer as this is to the avowed enemyes thereof 3. It is notorious vnto all the world what indignities sianders false accusations and calumniations ouer and besides the other Legall proceedings as they are pretended to be the Prelats and their adherents in their privat speeches publike sermons and writinges lay vpon those Ministers that hold maintaine this cause proclaiming theÌ„ to be Obstinat Refractarie persons Enemyes to the King State Notorious manifest Schismatikes Turbulent spirits Chaplin wel in 〈◊〉 Considetions Contemptuous and disdayning the Authoritie of their lawfull Gouernors presumptuous and wilfull Contenders with the Magistrat Impugning his authority in thinges indifferent and Soueraigntie in Ecclesiasticall cause False Prophets Members rent and cut of from the Church of God Runawayes from their Ministery some standing vpon these points of difference not for conscience but for carnall respects som because otherwise they knowe not how to be maintayned but by depending on that faction som to gratify their benefactors patrons and to please their friends som for discontentment and want of preferment som for giddines of innovation som for pride of hart and selfeloue som for hatred of order and restraint of their libertie som for ignorance yet willfull because they will not knowe the state of the question some to retaine the opinion of constancy c. Now it being the duty of every Christian even for Christs sake and the Gospells which he doth professe to cleere his innocencie against such false and impious slanders much more is it fit for the Ministers of the Gospell being thus wickedly traduced so to do And therefore they
think themselues bound in conscience to make this free and voluntarie offer vnto their Calumniators the very propounding whereof is sufficient to all honest and iust mindes that do not willfully shut their eyes against the truth to cleere and free them from all the aforesaid slanderous imputations 4. The Christian and mercifull disposition and inclination of the Lower house of Parliament and of sundry of the Nobles of the Higher house who in a holy Commiseration of the Ministers distressed estates and in a certaine knowledge both of their honest liues and conversations and of the good they haue done in their Ministeries and of their peaceable and duetifull behaviour to all in authoritie haue been earnest and zealous suppliants for them hath been shamefully traduced by the Prelats as though only through the incouragements hopes reposed in them and for this cause specially that they might not be discredited and disgraced in their indeavours and intendments for Reformation the Ministers did stand forth Whereas by these presents all the world shall know and understand that the cause for which the Ministers doe suffer is such as all due thankfullnes and service reserved to the Honorable and Christian indeavour of the Parliament though God should which we hope he will never permitt so far forsake that High and Honorable Court as in steed of being suppliants for the poore Ministers they should joyne with the Prelats in making the most rigorous lawes against them that might be even to bloud yet the Ministers by Gods good grace stand resolved to hold and maintaine their said profession In witnes whereof they publish to the view of all men this offer as a testimony of their confident resolution in the said cause for which they suffer 5. There is such indifferencie in this offer and it standeth upon so just equall grounds that it ought not to be refused of any Christians no though made by Iewes Turks Arrians Papists or any other Heretiks whatsoever Much lesse when it is made by Ministers constantly professing shewing themselues willing and readie to submit themselues in all things to the written word of God and who in all matters except in these Controversies of Religion wherein yet they agree with most of the Churches that haue made a separation from Rome are as obedient to the present State and as unblameable in life and conversation as any other of his Majesties subjects 6. Divers of the aforesaid Propositions are such as that if the Ministers should not constantly holde maintayne the same against all men they cannot see how possiblie by the rules of Divinitie the seperatioÌ„ of our Churches from the Church of Rome and from the Pope the supreme head thereof can be justified And therefore for asmuch as in these controversies the Papists and the Prelats goe hand in hand the said Ministers doe in like forme and maner make the like Offer to the Priests and Iesuits promising their reconcilement unto that Sea if they can either by Arguments pull them from the foresaid Propositions or can answer such Arguments as they shall propound in the defence of them in maner and forme before specified in the Offer And therefore it both standes the Ministers upon to make the aforesaid Offer and the Prelats except they will haue all the world to judge them to be frends in heart to Popery to accept of the same 7. The Doctors of Oxford in their answer to the Petition of the 1000. Ministers and G. Powell in his last booke undertake the answer of whatsoever can be objected in these causes â—ook pref â—…g 25.26 and M. Hooker in his Preface before his first booke of Politiks propoundeth unto the Ministers that seeke Reformation the very like Offer and forme of disputation Which bookes were published with the special approbation of the Prelats Wherefore the Ministers having been in such a maner chalenged they can doe no lesse then make this offer which cannot be refused of the Prelats but they will be judged of all the world to offer that which they will not performe 8. The Bishop of Rochester with the consent and by the direction no doubt of some of the chiefest Prelats hath now lately published his Sermon preached in September last before the King at Hampton Court the maine drift wherof is to proue that the office calling of Dioce san Bishops in present coÌ„troversie is a Divine Apostoli call OrdinaÌ„ce Besids in his epistle to the Ministers of Scotland prefixed before the sayd Sermon he professeth that if there shall an answer be made therunto with modestie and learning nothing shall be more welcome And that to avouch make it good that the said Episcopall calling is unlawfull were a labor worthy the travell and of the Prelats much desired Wherfore seeing the Prelats themselues do offer to bring this cause to a publike triall it coÌ„cerneth us in England also no less then our brethren in Scotland seeing by this course order heere layd downe this question amongst the rest will come to be far more exactly tryed then by any other way hitherto thought on the Ministers haue just cause to tender this Conference nothing doubting but that the Prelats will willingly accept it especially seeing they seeme so much to desire it and in all reason it is like to put an end to all these controversies which haue so long troubled the peace and quiet of our Churches 9. Since the Ministers late troubles there haue been many bookes published in Print against them contayning many shamefull untruthes and abuses wherin great violence wrong hath been offered to Gods truth many grosse and Popish errors haue been divulged and many impostures used onely to deceaue the simple and to blind their eyes that they may not see the truth of the Ministers cause which the Ministers take themselues bound in conscience to answer But being not able partly by reason of their povertie partly by want of meanes of Printing partly for other difficulties to publish so soone as is requisit so many answers except they might haue leaue from authoritie unto so many great bookes as many of them are They haue judged it meet in the meane time to make this Offer wherein if they prevaile gaine the cause they make no question but they shall haue all other particularities yeelded and shall saue that other labor 10. They haue warrant thus far from his Majestie both in his booke called Basilicon doron where he willeth them to presse by patience and well grounded reasons to perswade other men to like of their iudgments and by the Proclamation of Iuly 16. 1604 In which the Prelats are required to doe their uttermost indeavour by perswasions Conference Arguments and all other wayes of gentlenes and loue to reclaime the Ministers which being as yet not done by them can not be performed by a more direct and indifferent course then by accepting such an Offer as this is 11. By direction from
attyre to administer Baptisme without the signe of the Crosse or any such like mysticall rite and to vndertake a Ministery being called thervnto of the Church without the authority of a Diocesan Prelate and without any such subscription as is required and seeing the consormity and subscription required against which the Ministers doe witnes hath been ever called into question since the first appearance of the Gospell out of Popery concluded and determined against both in the profession and practis of the greatest lights of this age and of so many Reformed Churches haue not the Ministers just cause they desiring nothing which is of it selfe vnlawful suffering for nothing but for the refusall of those things which haue ever been in Controversy whether they be lawfull or not haue not the Ministers we say just cause to make this Offer and to cleaue constantly vnto that which all men grant to be lawfull vntill by some such indifferent meanes as this is the contrary matters bejng so doubtfull shall be proved to be lawfull 16. It is notorious vnto all the world what damnable and impious imputations the Prelats and their defendors haue laid vpon Calvin BeZa and all reformed Churches raking vp calumniations against them out of the writings of Allen Parsons and other traiterous Papists notwithstanding Bishop Iewel and Bishop Bilson haue most cleerly in their writings against the Papists detected the falshood thereof And seeing that the Papists haue gone about since the discovery of that late detestable plot by gunpowder to iustifie their abominable Treasons Conspiracies Rebellions Periuries and Equivocations by the doctrine of the worthyest Protestants taking iust advantage thereof by the slanderous writings of the Prelats against those of our owne religion And further seeing that the intent of the Prelats therin was to make all the Ministers that consent in iudgment with those persons and Churches which they haue thus traduced odious and vile in the eyes of all men as persons in clined to perilous conspiracies Treasons and Rebellions there being no other ground nor any colour of all this but because together with other Churches they holde the foresaid propositions howsoever in a late Reply vnto the Papists the matter be pittifully shifted of yet seeing these heavy proceedings against the said Ministers are a kinde of confirmation of the aforesaid imputations it stands them vpon by this Offer to cleere themselues and to detect the vnchristian and vngodly wrongs which the Prelats haue don to so many worthy persons Churches 17. Vpon a serious consideration how the hand of God hath been vpon many of those who hauing formerly imbraced this cause haue shrunk from tre truth maintained in these propositions how some of them haue evidently lost the grace and power of their gifts some growen to be idle neglecting both privat and publike dutyes yea profane and scandalous in their liues and conversations som ashamed to shew their faces in the presence of any who truly fearing God haue knowne their former cariage som languishing and pining away till they haue died that within few dayes after their yeelding some possessed as it were with a continuall fury incessantly vexing tormenting them FR. MAR and thrusting them into continual storming raging in the pulpit aginst those that doe not as they do all of them falling to the maintenance of most grosse and Popish errors and none of them respected allmost by any but cōtemned scorned even of the Prelats themselues as those which were either hypocrits before or hypocrits now The Ministers hauing receaved this grace from God not only to see and acknowledge this truth but to confirme it with their sufferings haue thought it more then needfull to make this Christian Offer for the staying and strengthening of such of their brethren as are otherwise in danger to fall after the same maner 18. In as much as all the professed and notorious Atheists Papists Blasphemers Adulterers Drunckards infamous persons in this Kingdome are together with the prelats professed enemyes vnto the Ministers in this cause and haue been from time to time the speciall instruments of all the troubles which haue befallen them for the same can any man lay any iust blame vpon the Ministers for making this Offer now when as the Prelats haue by their late proceedings giuen such cause to all the wicked and profane of the land to clappe their hands in Triumph over them 19. It is well knowen in those Countries where the said Ministers haue liued especially to the Townes where they haue exercised their Ministery that according to the proportion of their Livings and maintenance they haue kept as good hospitalitie given as liberall intertainment vnto others and as much relieved to their power those in want as any other Ministers whosoever whereas now a great part of them with their wiues and children are forced to liue vpon the beneuolence and devotions of others Which lamentable and miserable astate of theirs the Prelats and their Adherents are so far from pitying that they take occasion the more to scorne deride thē yea and to insult over them for the same they being not ashamed both in the Pulpit in Print falsely to affirme that by this meanes not only the outward estate of the Ministers is bettered but that they haue voluntarily and of set purpose left their Ministery that they might liue in this maner vpon the sweat of other mens browes and by Contributions inrich themselues Though therfore the many great meanes which the Ministers haue vsed both to prevent these proceedings and to be restored to their places againe are sufficient to lay open the shame of these malicious spitfull calumniations Yet they have thought it meet by this Offer to make it knowne unto all the world that they are so far from affecting such a course of life that they ever haue been and are still most willing to doe any thing but that the doing whereof may procure damnation unto their soules for the keeping or recovering of their former places from which they haue been thrust to the end that they might ease their Christian friends of those great burdens wherewith since these late troubles they haue been pressed in yeelding reliefe unto their extremities 21. The Prelats are now come to this height of Popish injquitie G. Powel Adiaph c. 2. sect 7.8.9.10 that they are not ashamed to hold maintaine that they being the Church are in their Canons and Constitutions alwayes directed in externall thinges by the spirit of God and that therefore whatsoever they decree is more then Humane yea even Divine and that the true Church allwayes depends upon the word so as it cannot possibly swarue from the same and therefore all her Traditions are holy and divine And this Church of Prelats professing themselves to be assembled in a sacred Synod in the name of Christ and directed by the spirit of God Canon 13 and Excommunicating all them that
vnto it to haue the iustice therof manifested if vniust it may be abrogated And how cōmeth it to passe that so many lawes of man are abrogated by man if whē once a Law is enacted it may not be called into questiō Iust Lawes grounded vppon equitie reason the word of God never dread examination but vniust and Antichristian Lawes do 3. These matters were never yet so established by law as is pretended but only tolerated it being the intent of the first retainers of these Reliques of popery in time to abolish them And since the 14. yere of hir late Maiesties Raigne the High Court of Parliament and the state of this Kingdome who only with the assent of the King haue power to make and abrogate Lawes whether Civill or Ecclesiasticall haue euer shewed themselues readie to ease the Churches of these burdens which vnder the name of things established by Law are impose vpon them by the Prelats Only the Prelars hauing many voyces of their owne in the vpper Howse haue by their grosse flatteryes fayned promises to the in Chiefe place ever crossed the holy endeavors of the Parliament for the removall of these burdens grievous both to Church and Commonweale 4. It is ordinary in our Universities to admit of argumentatiō against any poynt of Religion and Faith and that in such a maner as is more dangerous to the truth and lesse indifferent then this forme that is heere offered 4. OPPOSITION If Schismaticks and factious persons may haue this favour why then may not Brownists Anabaptists and Papists exspect the same ANSWER 1. They Ministers deny themselues to be Schismatiks shall at any time iustifie themselues to be as honest men and as dutifull loyall subjects as any Prelat in the Kingdom 2. The thing they desire is no favor but that which in justice is to be yeelded vnto thē Neither shall they get any good but hurt by it except the truth be on their side 3. It were a shame for a state professing the true Religion publikly to deny to the free subiects thereof desiring it such an indifferent hearing of their opinions as this is be they of the Separation or Anabaptists or what they may be For if the Heathen had not much lesse should true Christans haue any such law to condemne any sect or faction whatsoever before they heare them and heare them they doe not that will refuse to admit of such an indifferent Offer as this is And it is a shame of shames to the Doctors of Oxford who provoking those whom they call Brownists in their Answer to the Ministers Petition and being challenged of dishonestie and iniustice in an Answer therevnto have not in all this time iustified themselues answered that which the other say in their owne defence it being so grauely moderatly and discreetly set downe How much greater shame reproch would it be to refuse such a direct kinde of triall as this is tyed to so strict rules so preiudiciall to error of so great advantage to the truth 5. OPPOSITION This Offer argues only a willfull obstinacie of persons that will never be satisfied and content with reason For was not according to their owne seeking their cause handled heard in the Conference at Hampton Court his Maiestie him selfe moderating the action and answering whatsoever in these points their owne Agents could obiect what would they more ANSWER 1. In their objecting to the Ministers the Conference at Hampton Court they object to them as it were that which is Non Ens None of them knowing what it was nor any other faue a few that were present whose reports thereof are also so diuerse that one spoyles the credit of another And that which is set forth as the true report of it being published onely by the Prelates who are partiall without the knowledge aduise or consent of the other side deserues no credit the rather considering that D. Morton hath bene allowed to call some part of it into question even some speeches fathered vpon his Maiestie which he was faine to confute as vnsound and contrary to divinitie Wherin sith the Kings owne speeches be as it seemeth grossely abused by the author it is much more likly that speeches of other men are abused Besides none but Prelats and such as were partiall being present at the first dayes Conference there can be no credit at all given to the report thereof for it is more then apparant that they haue fraudulently cut of and concealed all the speeches which were many that his Maiestie vttered against the corruptiōs of our Church practise of the Prelats as appeareth by that testimony of the Deane of the Chappell which he gaue therof saying That his Maiestie did that day wonderfully play the Puritan But if he playd that part no otherwise then is specified in the Prelats report he acted it very poorely or rather never a whitt If therefore they would haue had the Ministers to stand to the determination of that Conference they should haue vsed more indifferencie and honestie in the Relation of it then they haue don they should at least haue made it appeare by mutuall testimonie of all sides that it was a true act For they haue no reasō to belieue such enemies as the Prelats haue shewed themselues to be vnto them any further then they see them 2. Such a conference as that was never desired by the Ministers And it seemes by the whole managing of it that it was vnderhand plotted and procured by the Prelats themselues abusing therin his Maiestie and vsing M. Galloway as an instrument in the matter to the end that they might haue the more colour for their intended proceedings afterwards And there is great probabilitie of this for that the Archbishop professed to the Committies of both Howses the last session that he had the letters written from M. Cartwright to M. Galloway about that matter 3. Most of the persons appoynted to speake for the Ministers were not of their chosing nor nomination nor of their iudgment in the matters then and now in question but of a cleane contrary For being intreated at that time by the Ministers to dispute against these things as things simply evill and such as cannot be yeelded vnto without sinne they professed to them that they were not so perswaded and therefore could not so doe Being then requested to let his Majesty understand that some of their brethren were further perswaded touching the unlawfulnes of these things then themselues were they refused that also Lastly being intreated either to giue them in writing their reasons to proue these thinges indifferent or to giue them an answere in writing to such reasons as they would giue them in writing to proue them simply euill they would doe neither the one nor the other so that there neither was nor could be any hope of good by that conference 4. The matters in controversy were not in that Conference throughly debated but nakedly
defectiue and unperfect are true Churches whose willing subjecting themselues unto their Ministerie maketh the very outward calling it selfe of the said Ministers to be such as it is And therefore so long as their consciences being in the meane time vnconvinced of these their errors wherein they stād God taketh not away their Ministeriall gifts frō them and so long as their Churches cleaue unto them though in their entrance continuance they were and are guiltie of much sinne in approving by Conformitie and Subscription the Iurisdiction of Prelats they thinke it not just wholly to separate from them and their Ministerie but are content though with some griefe and sorrow so far forth to joyne with them in the worship of God as they can without their personall Communion with them in those corruptions which in their weaknes they yeeld vnto 3. If the Prelats shall still hold the things in question in such sort as of late they haue done shall vrge them so hotely as they begin both the Ministers many of the people wil be forced to leaue their ordinary standing in these Churches In which regard they humbly pray that they may be exempted from the Prelats may haue liberty granted vnto them by the King to serue God according to his owne will revealed in his word without any Humane Traditions As for that publique Ministerie derived from the Prelats besides that it cannot be entered into without yeelding to corruption sinne it is also very defectiue to speake the truth little more then a halfe Ministerie if it be compared with the Pastorall Office commanded and commended vnto vs by the Holy Ghost Which the Ministers discerning and perceaving plainly that there is litle or no cōfort to be had in the exercising of such a Ministerie as hitherto they haue injoyed they are bold to make their humble Suite to his Maiestie that they may be freed from the Prelats vsurpation over them and may be vnder the guidance Censure of the Civill Magistrats unles by such an indifferent Tryall as is heere Offered the Prelats shall iustify their Callings and Courses to be of God 12. OPPOSITION A vaine thing it is to yeeld to any such Offer For who must iudge on which side the truth is They name none And when they haue been heard to oppose and Answer what they can they will not stand to any mans definitiue sentence but will continue obstinate still ANSWER 1. In desiring that the whole cariage of this intended Conference may be published they make all the world to be Iudges thereof even the Prelats and the Papists them selues all that shall read the same 2. They do not think it lawfull in any matter of Religion much lesse in matters of so great consequence to settle their consciences vpon the definitiue sentence of any person absolutely that is so far as to renounce any thing which they haue believed because such or such iudge it to be otherwise For so they might both headily wilfully betray the truth of Christ and inthrall themselues to error and also detract from Christ and his blessed word their proper right and giue it unto men It should therefore content any Christianly affected man that the Ministers are content to offer their Defence of these poynts to the view of all to skan and to weigh thē and so far forth to judge therof as if their reasons do not satisfie them to giue them leaue to condēne them of error which wil be a Iudgment heavie enough to them if notwithstanding they shall still persist in their former opinions 3. It may please God that by the evidence and force of those Arguments or Answers that shal be propounded both sides may thinke themselues satisfied and one side yeeld If the Prelates haue this grace to yeeld then his Majesty the State know best what they haue to doe in such a Case If the Ministers yeeld then the greatest matter that can be expected of them is Submission and Conformity which if they shall refuse the Law is open so that in this case there needes no Definitiue sentence of a Iudge It both sides rest vnsatisfied and continew perswaded still that the truth is on their side it were impious for either side in such a case to commit the absolute determination therof vnto the will and pleasure of any man or men whomsoeuer And it were vniust for either side to require Iudges either incompetent or not indifferent For as the Prelats might iustly except they would wilfully betray their owne cause refuse such to be Iudges as haue in any degree inclined more to the Ministers then to them so may the Ministers in like maner as iustly refuse to stand to the Iudgment and determination of such as incline more to the Prelats then to them much more of such as haue shewed themselues maine patrons and vpholders of the Prelats and adversaries to the Ministers Sith therfore the Prelats can not set forth any person or persons to whom it is meet to commit the absolute determination of so great a cause it were very vniust and vnequall to binde the Ministers to stand to the judgment of those that are partiall 4. It is needles to name Iudges his Maiestie the Civill Magistrats vnder him and the High Court of Parliament though the Ministers should appeale from them would in this case judge thē and their Cause yea and are bound soe to doe Whose Iudgment if it goe against the Ministers and it appeare to be righteous the more they shall neglect the same and refuse to submit themselues vnto it the more grosse refractary they shall shew themselues to be and with the more honor and credit may the State ioyne with the Prelats in making and executing Lawes for the suppressing of them and their Errors which is as much advantage as any Christian can desyre over any Enemies of the truth And what would the Prelats haue more Prov. 19.21 Many devises are in a mans heart but the Counsell of the Lord shall stand Math 22 21. Giue unto Caesar the thinges which are Caesars and giue unto God those things which are Gods