England the same are to be iudged and determyned by Ecclesiasticall Iudges according to the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes etc. fol. 39 And againe obserue good reader sayth S. Edward Cooke seeyng that the determination of heresies etc. belongeth not to the Common law how necessary it was for administration of Iustice that his Maiesties progenitors Kings of this Realme did by publike authority authorize Ecclesiasticall Courts under thē to determyne those great and important causes etc. by the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes The jurisdiction therfore Courts and lawes Ecclesiasticall in the opinion of the Kings progenitors were thought held to be their own Kingly lawes Courts and jurisdiction The same is further proved by the sayd S. Edward Cooke fol. 9 by the president of Renulphus in discharging and exempting the Monastery and Abbot of Abinden from the jurisdiction of the Bishops and granting also to the saide Abbot Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction etc by the president of William the first fol 10. 11 who made inpropriatiō of Churches with cure to Ecclesiasticall persons etc. and by divers presidents of other Kings since the conquest That which in this parte of the answer is afterward added of the necessary restitution of the right of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction to the Crowne is also confuted by the same S. Edward Cooke who plainely saith that though there had been no such law of restitution made yet it was resolved by all the Iudges that the Kings and Queenes of Englād for the tyme being by the auncient prerogatiue law of England may make such a Commision etc. And therfore by the auncient lawes of this Realme this kingdome of England is and absolute Empire and Monarchy consisting of one head which is the King and of a body politike c. Also that the Kingly head of this body politike is furnished with plenary power c. to render iustice and right to every part and member of this body Thus farre S. Edward Cooke From all which it followeth that the restitution of the auncient right howsoever lawfully made as being made by the whole body of the kingdome was notwithstāding not necessarily made as though without it the King or Queene for the tyme being could not haue used their auncient right That which followeth in the 2. 3. and 4. branches of this 4 answer to the consequence of this 8 Argument doth not belong to the matter because it doth nothing justifie the proceedings of the Bishops or other Ecclesiasticall Iudges in depriving of the Ministers pleaded for in such manner and for such causes as for which they haue depriveded them The question is not whether jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall by the lawes of the land doth be long under the King unto the ordinaryes nor whether the Ordinaryes in the exercise of the Kings jurisdiction Ecclesiiasticall and Consistoriall trialls ought to proceed by vertue of Peeres etc but whether some Ordinaryes exercising the Kings Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction haue proceeded in their Ecclesiasticall Consistories against some Ministers without authority of the Kings Ecclesiasticall law therfore in that respect contrary to Magna Charta which requyreth nothing to be doone without the Kings law Further De jure Regis Ecclesi fol. 9 although we grant as S. Edw. Cooke instructeth us all lawes Ecclesiasticall derived from other which by and with a generall consent are approved and allowed here to be aptly and rightly called the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes of England yet I deny that all lawes Ecclesiasticall derived by the Kings progenitors either before or since the Conquest from others are now in this age our Soveraigne Lord King Iames his Ecclesiasticall lawes and therefore howsoever many judiciall Acts of deprivation of Bishops Preists from their benefices c. according to the Ecclesiasticall law which is called ius Pontificium which was derived by the Kings Progenitors from the Bishops of Rome either before or since the Conquest unto Magna Charta and since that to the 25 of King Henry the eyght were never all held to be contrary but were ever all held to be agreable to the lawes of this kingdome yet notwithstanding I affirme that all Iudiciall Acts and sentences 25. Hen. 8 cap. 17 how many soever of deprivation of Ministers from their benefices had made and given by the Ecclesiasticall Iudges since the 25. of King Henry the 8. onely according or onely by force and vertue of the sayd ius Pontificium or Bishop of Rome his law the sentences given in the time of Queene Mary excepted are and ought to be holden not to be had made given by the lawes of this kingdome or by the Kings Ecclesiasticall law And why Even because the whole ius Pontificium or Bishop of Romes law was altogether excepting the tyme of Queene Mary abrogated adnulled and made voyd by an Act of Parlament and consequently is but a meere Alien Forraine and straunge law and no municipall law of England and therefore not the Kings Ecclesiasticall law Wherefore our Soveraigne Lord King Iames by this graunt of Magna Charta made by his progenitors beyng obliged to suffer no Free man of the Realme to be taken or imprisoned or disseissed of his Frrehold or liberties c. Nor to passe upon him nor condemne him but by lawfull judgment of his Peeres or by the law of the land We agayne assume from this statute of the great Charter that sundry sentences of deprivation of Ministers from their benefices for causes before specified are unlawfull because such Ministers haue been condemned and judgment hath been passed upon them without lawfull judgment of their Peeres or law Ecclesiasticall of the land For heere we must giue the answerer to witt by these words or law of the land that all the Kings lawes of what nature or quality soever whether Ecclesiasticall or temporall and not only the lawes temporall as he insinuateth are included As therefore no temporall Free man of the Realme may be condemned passed upon or disseissed of his liberty and freehold c. in a temporall cause and in a temporall Court without lawfull judgment of his Peeres or temporall law of the land Even so likewise no Ecclesiasticall person beyng a freeman of the Realme may be condemned passed upon or disseissed of his liberty or frehold but by lawfull Ecclesiasticall judgement according to the law Ecclesiasticall of the land And heereupon we graunt if the King haue any law Ecclesiasticall of the lād for the deprivation of a Minister from his liberty and frehold for not subscription perjurie contempt of Canonical so called obedience omission of Rites and Ceremonyes not precise observation of the booke of Common prayer c. Then we graunt that the Ordinaryes being the Kings Iudges Ecclesiasticall may rightly depriue a Minister from his benefice for these offences And yet still we deny and shall be able to mainteyne that sundry sentences of deprivation made and given by sundry Ordinaries against svndry Ministers be either unjust or unlawfull or no sentences at
not Circumcising Cain and Abell did contrary to the law given for Circumcision to Abraham many yeares after Or whither Ishmael persecuted Isaack before Isack was borne Or whether stealing of horses an hundred yeares past were punishable with death before any law made for death in that behalfe One thing cannot be sayd contrary to an other that is not neyther ever was extant in rerum natura The Second part of this Quere whether since the granting of Magna Charta unto this age the judiciall acts of deprivation of Bishops etc were ever held to be contrary to the law of this kingdome and Magna Charta we shall answer if God permit more plentifully anone Quere 3 G. Powel 3 Quere Whether any Iudge of this Realme or any cheife officer lerned in the lawes be of opinion that such sentences of deprivation as haue lately passed in due forme in any Ecclesiasticall Court be contrary to any much lesse to many statuts Reply Though it were a sufficient answer to bid him goe looke and himselfe to aske the opinion of every judge learned officer yet will I not altogether yeld him so short and cutted an answer And though it be a principle in Philosophy that forma dat esse rei yet to the beyng of every thing there must be matter to which the forme giveth being And therefore in this case besides due forme there must be also due matter inserted in due sentences Wherupon I craue a resolute and direct answer whether by those words passed in due forme he meane passed for matter and forme in due forme Or whether he meane passed without due matter in due forme onely For if he meane by passed for matter and forme in due forme then is his question without question either a foolish question or no question at all For who would question whether any Iudge or learned officer could doubt that a sentence passed for matter and forme in due forme were a sentence contrary to any much lesse to many statuts As though there were any Statuts so ridiculous and absurd On the other side if he meane by passed in due forme only due forme without due matter then we answer that the same sentence may be unjust for want of due matter and yet be just by reason of due forme And so on the other parte we affirme that a sentence may be iust by reason of due matter and yet unjust by reason of an undue forme How many sentences therefore of deprivation soever as haue been lately given without due and just matter or without due and iust forme we answer so many not to haue passed in due matter and forme and so contrary to some lawes or statuts But were this question wholly grāted what ease and advantage can the opinion of any iudg or learned officer yeeld to those Iudiciall acts of deprivation wherupon the controversie is grounded which are not passed in any due forme of any law or Statute Ecclesiasticall whatsoever Furthermore touching this question if the Prelats did intend that all their sentēces should be according to law wherfore did they make a Canon against the ordinary prosecution of appeales Yea what needed such a Canon What benefite is there to any appellant by his appeale from a just sentence Or what danger to the Iudge a quo by such appeales The whole danger is to the appellant himselfe For the sentence beyng just he shall be sure to get nothing neither the Iudge a quo to lose any thing by the appeale G. Powel VVho having but halfe an eye doth not see but that by pleading Magna Charta cap. 29 they would not onely weaken but also subvert and utterly overthrow all jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall Doth every one that desireth limitation of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Reply and laboreth to restrayne it from all communion of forreyne lawes seeke the subversion therof If also the lawes Ecclesiasticall be the Kings Ecclesiasticall lawes and the jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall the Kings Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction then is this place of Magna Charta so farre from subverting the jurisdiction or law Ecclesiasticall as that by that place the same law and jurisdiction is up held and more throughly established That the law jurisdiction Ecclesiastical ever hath been and yet is accounted the Kings Ecclesiasticall law and juridiction shall be shewed anone G. Powel The sentences and graue determinations whereof that is of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction haue never yet in any age or Country been submitted to popular triall by the judgment of Peeres etc Reply All sent ces of Ecclesiasticall Courts are not so graue but that some are somtymes repealed by Higher courts and sometymes revoked by themselues Sometyme also they meddle with matters not belonging unto them and therfore by ordinary course of Commmon law they are prohibited to proceed Finally in some case the Bishop giveth not Institution to a benefice untill by a Iury of 12. men whereof 6. are to be of the Clergy and 6 of the Layity the controversie de iure patronatus be decided Yea sometyme the Bishop having instituted a clarke is forced by writ from the common law to admit of another clark presented by another Patrone and so to displace him whom before he had instituted G. Powel The place of Magna Charta cannot be understood of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction or the practise thereof especially if we consider the end why this law was made and the tyme when The Prelats should make sure worke indeed Reply if they could make that no lawes were against their power Thē might they take upon them without controlment what they would under coloure of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction as indeed they doe now pretily beginne to doe G. Powel The end was that the Kings of this Realme might not challenge an infinit and absolute power as some Kings else where did and yet doe without judgment and lawfull proceedings to take away any mans liberty life Country goods or lands Then belike the Kings Majestie is restrayned by Magna Charta but the Prelacy is not Reply Is not this good stuffe The King shall weare the Crowne but the Prelats will beare the sword Whether now doe they that are falsely called Puritans or the Prelats most encroch upon the Royall authoritye G. Powel It was made at such time as the Kings thought Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction no more in right then in fact to belong to the Crowne Therfore the words haue no relation to Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction This is utterly false Reply yea the falshood therof is evident by the testimony of that worthy and renowned Lawyer S. Edward Cooke in the booke alleadged by the answerer For he sayth expresely that as in temporall causes the King by the mouth of Iudges in his Courts of Iustice doth iudge the same by the temporall lawes of England lib. de jure regis Eccle. fol 8 so in causes Ecclesiasticall etc. the connusance wherof doth not belong to the common lawes of
all for the reasons and causes before specified It is therefore erroniously alleadged that that which was done by jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall when Magna Charta was granted was not at that tyme taken to be done by the King or by his authority and that the lawes which Ecclesiasticall Iudges practised were not then held to be the lawes of the land or the Kings lawes For the Kings progenitors did both thinke and held that jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall did in right belong unto their Crowe and therefore in fact by right of their crownes did they both exercise and commaund to be exercised in their Kingly names their Kingly right authority and jurisdiction Ecclesiasticall within their Realmes For how could those Kings haue commaunded and how could their subjectes haue obeyed if the Kings themselues had thought and held that the Ecelesiasticall courts lawes or jurisdiction were not in right no more then in fact at that tyme belonging unto the Crowne as the answerer vaynly and childishly fancyeth Which fancy also seemeth sufficiētly confuted by the very title of S. Edward Cooks booke de iure regis Ecclesiastico For how could the Kings before and after the Conquest unto Magna Charta have been justly intituled to Kingly right of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction if the Kings had no Kingly Ecclesiasticall right or jurisdiction at all G. Powel Breifely the lawfullnes of they deprivation of the refractary Ministers is a plaine case adjudged in open Court as appeareth in S. Edward Cookes Report part 5 in Cawdries case according to a Statute of I. Elizab. cap 2. c. It is a most playne and cleere case that neither the case of Cawdrie Reply is the case of sundry the late deprived Ministers nor that the case of sundry the late deprived Ministers is the case of Cawdrie Cawdrie was deprived not by his Ordinarie but by the Queenes Ecclesiasticall high Commissioners not for not subscribing to the 3 Articles not for the not use of rits and Ceremonyes not for the not exact S. Edward Cook de jure regis eccl Cawdries case fol. 3 and precise observation of the booke of Common prayer But as well for that he had preached against and depraved the said book as also for that he refused to celebrate divine service according to the sayd booke Agayne in his cause it being found before the High Commissioners that he had uttered verba convitiosa and contumeliosa convitious and contumelious words looke sent against Caw against the boke of Common prayer the case was not whither his fact were punishable by the Statute for of that no man then doubted but whether his depravation and preaching against the booke of Common prayer beyng the first offence committed by him against the Statute he was punishable by tenor of the statute for the same his first offence by depravatiō yea or no Lastly Cawdries offence was punishable as well before the Queenes Iustices by imprisonment and losse of one whole yeares profites of his spirituall promotions as by deprivation before his Ordinary None of all which things were within the cōpass of sundry the late deprived Ministers For non of thē ever preached against the booke nor depraved the same They never refused to obserue the same booke according to the proeme of the booke tenor of the statute They were so farr from claymyng any immunitie from being depraved for their first offence as that they stood and yet doe stand upon their innocencyes not to haue committed any offence at all against the statute punishable with deprivation by the statute they alleadge that they were not punishable before the Kings Iustices by the statute for these facts which they were charged by their Ordinaries to haue committed against the statute and for which they were deprived Lastly some of them were deprived not for any fact done committed or perpetrated but for not promissing heereafter to obserue the whole booke And what an unconsiderate part therefore is it to avowe the lawfulnes of the deprivation of all the late silenced Ministers to be a playne case adjudged in open Court when neither their case nor any like case to som of theirs was ever yet brought or argued before the Kings Iustices in any of the Kings open courts at all Touching the statut alleadged 1. Elizabeth it helpeth nowhitt at all the late deprivations of sundry Ministers First because such Ministers as haue been deprived onely for not conformyng themselues to the use of the booke provided by the parishioners cannot truly be charged to haue refused the booke commaunded by the statute Because the same booke was never provided for them Secondly the statute punisheth not every refuser but wilfull and obstinate refusers They then that upon conscience onely of Gods word doe refuse to obserue al things conteyned in the booke cannot be iustly called obstinate refusers till their groundes out of the word be by the word removed Thirdly the statute requyreth some Act done committed or perpretrated against the Statut but some Ministers haue been deprived only for not promising c as before was sayd Fourthly the statute appoynteth the Ordinaries to proceed by inquisition accusation or information But many of us haue been deprived without any of these meanes and onely upon Proces Ex officio mero Heerby therfore appeareth how unjustly and directly contrary to the words of the statute you insert this Parenthesis which they may doe Ex officio as if they might by vertue of this Statute proceed Ex officio wheras the Statute expresly requyres inquisition accusation or information Is this good interpretation If you doe so interprete the scripture directly contrary to the wordes of scripture in the same place you make but mad interpretations Touching that which is objected against all hitherto spoken in the poynt of the law of the opinion of the Iudges to be against the same may it please the reader to remember the saying of an Honorable and most renowned Counseller in that behalfe viz. that in such cases and all other men are not so much to respect what judges speake standing bare headed 2 chro 19 6 as what they say sittyng upon the judgment seate representing the Kings person yea not executing the iudgment of man but of the Lord when all men stand bare headed before them Concernyng the oth Ex officio of the othe ex officio we affirme that the law of the land is against the exercise of the same oath by Ordinaries and other judges Ecclesiasticall The Common law of this kingdome which is grounded upon the law of God and of reason doth hate and abhorre it First in respect of the fraylty of man who for the safitie of his life libertie credit and good name will not spare to prophane even that which is most holy and by committing sinfull perjury hazard his soule which the subtle serpēt wel knew in generall though he were deceaved in the perticuler in that he sayd unto God concerning Iobskinne for skinne and
Prelats against the said Ministers for not subscribyng observing the booke conformity etc to be with out law and a gainst law This one reason is from the late Bill of the Bishops presented to the Parliament for the establishing both of the booke of Common prayer and also of their Canons For if the said booke and Canons were already good in law what needed any new statute to establish them If they say that abundans cautela non nocet plentifull caution is not hurtfull they must also remember that they haue likewise learned frustra fit per plura quod fieri potest per pauciora It is in vayne to doe that by many thinges which may be done by fewe Now to the Canons repugnant to the law We decree and appoynt saith the Synod that no iudge ad quem shall admitt or allow any his or their appeales speaking as they call them of obstinate and factious appellants unlesse he haue first seene the originall appeale But the King say I is a iudge ad quem Ergo the King saith this Synod may not admitt or allow any appeale etc. The liberty and franchise then of the Kings will and grace after this unwonted manner by a Synodall decree onely beyng thus blemished impeched and restrayned what dignity preheminence superiority or prerogatiue hath the Kings grace when the King himselfe is chardged not to grant any inhibition out of his Court of Chauncery but conditionally and upon an unlesse etc. And if by this Canon the Kings will and grace receiue let hinderance and prejudice what should we thinke but that this Canon also tendeth to the weakenyng of the Kings arme and power For how can his power be strōg and his arme able to help when his grace is bound and his will unable to will And then agayne if these two mayne pillars of his Majesties prerogatiue Royall namely his grace and his power be thus shaken by this Canon must it not necessarily follow that the Lords and Commons in Parliament are prejudiced therby For the rights prerogatiues of the Kings Crowne by the lawes of the Realme be not invested and appropried unto the Kings person onely in regard of his Majesties owne Royall estate but also for the good condition and preservation of his body Politicke which is the Common wealth Which body also for the just and necessary defence both of the head which is the King and of it selfe hath such a proper clayme and interest in and to the grace and power of the head as the lest jote of the power and grace of the head may not be blemished to the prejudice of the body without consent of the body viz of the Lords Commons in Parliament who are the very image and true representiue body of the Realme yea and thus much in effect haue the Kings progenitors and the Auncestors of our Nobles and Cōmons agreed upon in Parliament when by their authority and consent it was forbidden that any thing should be attempted which should tend to the blemishyng of the Kings prerogatiue or to the prejudice of his Lords Commons And when also by common consent Acts Monuments 4 Ed. 3 pag 422. 424 it was enacted in effect that neither King Iohn nor any other King could bring his Realme and people in thraledome and subjection but by consent in Parliament Furthermore appeales beyng de iure naturali and introduced into judgement seats tam ob defensionem et presidiū innocentiae quam ad deprimendam iniquitatem et corrigendam imperitiam iudicis as well for the defence and savegard of innocency as for the depressing of the iniquity and correcting the unskilfulnes of a Iudge as they haue been evermore allowed by the lawes custōes of the Realme so haue they been suffered as freely to be prosecuted as interposed For otherwise how should either innocency be protected or the injustice of a judge reformed in case an appeale being interposed might not be prosecuted frustra saith S. Edward Cooke expectatur eventus de jure Reg Eccles cuius effectus nullus sequitur And according unto this naturall equity hath it been specially provided by a Statute of the realme that the Kings subjects being greived should not only haue libertie to make but also to take haue use and prosecute all manner of appeales after such manner forme and condition as is limited for appeales to be had and prosecuted And for lacke of Iustice many Courts of the Archbishops of this Realme it is lawfull for the partie greived to appeale to the Kinges Majestie in his Court of Chauncery And upon every such appeale a Commission saith the Statute shal be directed under the great Seale to such persons as shal be named by the Kings Highnes to heare and definitivly determine such appeales with the causes and all circumstances It is therefore apparant that this Canon is contrary or repugnant to this Statute For this Canon and this statute thus repugnantly providing and working divers repugnant effects the statute simply admitting the use and prosecution of all manner of appeales the Canon not admittyng but conditionally the use and prosecution of some appeales can not stand together Agayne some inferiour Ordinaryes having libertie to take the bridle in their owne teeth to lay the reynes loose on their owne neckes may in tyme beyng proudly pampred wax wanton in their judgement seates when they shall stand in no awe of having the nullitie or injquity of their process and sentences weyed in the ballance of any superiour Iudge By reason whereof this Canon can not but proue exceeding onerovs to the subject For let a man or woman dwelling at Michaels Mount be but once judicially though perhaps wrongfully cited by the name of a factious or obstinat person cōtemner of ceremonyes and from such wrongfull citations let his or her appeale made to the Kings Majestie in his Court of Chauncery if it be frō the Archbishop or unto the Archbishop if it be from the Diocesan be never so just equal thereis no remedy in this case before his or hirs appeale be admitted or allowed but the same man or woman by the letter of this Canon must personally appeare in the Archbishops Consistory if the appeale be by the Archbishop and if the appeale be to the King in the Kings Court of Chauncery though the same should be at Barwicke Yea and though the party appellant be never so poore aged weake and impotent Nay not only personall appearāce but personall subscription also by this Canon is requyred to the Kings Supremacie to the Articles of Religion to the booke of Homilies to the booke of Common prayer and to the booke of Consecrating Bishops be the party appellant never so simple a laborer or never so silly a spīster The 37. Canon disauthoriseth every Minister by what authority so ever he be admitted to preach or to read a Lecture in any place within the Realme unlesse he be licenced either by the Archbishop
A MYLD AND IVST DEFENCE OF CERTEYNE ARGVMENTS AT THE LAST SESSION OF Parliament directed to that most Honorable High Court in behalfe of the Ministers suspended and deprived c for not Subscribing and Conforming themselues etc. AGAINST AN INTEMPERAT AND VNIVST CONSIDERATIon of them by M. Gabril Powell The chiefe and generall contents wherof are breefely layd downe immediatly after the Epistle G. Powell Let there be no strife I praye thee betweene thee and me for we be brethren Gen. 30 8. Reply The wordes of his mouth were softer then butter yet warre is in his heart His wordes were more gentle then oyle yet they were swords Psal 55 21. Out of one mouth proceedeth blessing cursing my brethren these things ought not to be so Iames 3.10 My litle children let vs not loue in word neyther in tongue only but in deed and in truth 1 Ioh 3 18 Imprinted 1606. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE AND MOST CHRISTIAN HIGH COVRT OF PARliament which lately was and shortly agayne is to be assembled RIght Honorable and most Christian Senat as at your last Session there were certayne Arguments directed unto You for the quickening of your godly Zeale to speake not onely boldly but also in all humilitie to the Kings most excellent Maiestie for the Ministers suspended and deprived for not Subscribing and Conformyng themselues to some present Constitutions and as ye did graciously accept of the sayd Arguments and most worthily acquite your selues to the utmost of your powers touching the matter pleaded for by them so now vouchsafe I most humblie beseech you the like favorable acceptance of a sober modest and iust defence of the same Arguments against a late uncharitable unchristian bitter calumnious and cavilling answer published under the title of A consideration of them by M. Gabril Powel I am bold in steed of the author himselfe of the Arguments to take the defence of them upon me and to present them to your Honors because M. Powel himselfe in his said pretended answer unto them hath so often referred the iudgment of the Arguments of his consideration of them and of the whole cause to your most graue and gracious company Yea there is nothing that I am more willing unto or which I doe more earnestly desire then that the cause betwixt M. Powel and all those for whom he pleadeth on the one parte and the author of the Arguments and me the defendant with all other in whose behalfe we speake on the other parte might be iudicioussy and equally heard at the barre of your most Christian Court But the truth is because we desire and endeavor this hinc illae lacrymae Hence is their chiefe hatred of us their great contention with us and their bitter writing against us Notwithstanding though now we be uniustly charged as writing from Cimerian darknes for concealing our names yet if publike libertie might be granted to both parts to stand before your iudgment seat there freely to plead debate the cause by the word of God and that neither the worldly might and pompe of our adversaries nor our meannes and basenes might be respected but the truth it selfe simplie considered and regarded we would also accoumpt it as a singular mercy of God and as a speciall favor of you towards us in that behalfe In the meane time I doe in all humility referr the Argumēts togeather with the defence of them to your graue and iudicious consideration against your next meeting in Parliament not doubting but that the equitie of the cause and the innocencie of our selues will therby be so apparant unto you that though before som perhaps among you did thinke the one not to be so iust and the other not so free from all blame yet when ye shall agayne assemble ye will all with one mouth as one man both iustifie the cause and also speake more then ever before ye haue don for favor unto vs and to our people betwixt whom the bond before made by the Church and sealed by the holy Ghost in the effects of our Ministery cannot by any Lordly Episcopall severity be iustly dissolved I doe further likewise humblie craue your Honorable lawfull favor more specially towards me if at any time I shall be discovered against all those that shall not well brooke the sober and modest taxing of their corruptions in this defence especially considering the same is not done of any contentious minde but onely in loue of the truth to support it against those that deprave it and in regard of our owne good names to mainteyne our owne innocency against those that under the name of brethren doe most unbrotherly disgrace us Moreover if any thing in this defence following or in the Arguments themselues by the malice of any shal be wrested and perverted thereby also to wrest and pervert the law to the danger of the severall authors of the one or the other being found out may it likewise please you in all lawfull and righteous manner to put forth your selues for protection of the sayd authors as chiefly because such wresting of words and perverting of iudgment may procure Gods iudgments against themselues that shall so offend and against the whole land so likewise because to speake in such matters and for such persons whatsoever the answerer saith to the contrary shall not only bring much peace comfort to such speakers themselues but shall also be beneficiall to the whole land as is shewed in the Arguments nothing infringed or weakened by all M. Powels opposition unto them Yea let this consideration be a third reason to moue you the rather so to speake viz. that if one man had the divinity knowledge in law as also all other learning wit and wisdom of all men yet could he not so warily and circumspectly write in all things but that some wrangler or other instructed and set a worke by the serpent that is more subtle not onely then all beasts but also then all men now living on the earth might and would find some matter or other wherby to molest and trouble him I had thought much more to haue enlarged this my preface but the prolixity of the defence it selfe much exceeded my first purpos I will here conclude both humblie and with all thanks to God to your selues acknowledging your most religious gracious endeavors at your last Session for the cause and for the persons pleaded for in the argumēts and most heartily instantly likewise praying for you yours as Nehemiah Nehem 5 19 13 4 prayed for himselfe viz. that God in goodnes would remember you and yours according to all that ye haue doone for vs and that he will never wype out your kindnes that ye haue shewed on the house of your God and on the officers thereof A BREEFE NOTE OF SOME OF THE CHIEFE generall poynts handled in this defence following THat the author of the Arguments is falsly accused to impute any dissembling or equivocating to the
conscience of keeping Gods commaundements and observing his word Answer Deut. 4.6 The which to reject is the greatest folly Ierem. 8.9 We haue made no breach or division at all But as Ioseph for telling his divine dreames was hated of his brethren and at the last sold a way to strangers by themselues and as the blinde man Iohn 9. for confessing Christ and stoutly standing in that confession was throwne out of the Iewish Synagogue by the Pharises so to use the words of this answerer we are violently and unjustly broken of and divided and thrust out of the ministery by other and yet charged that we haue made a folish breach and division G. Powel And therefore I cannot allow the opinion of such as giue out Answer Yet we doe all as hartily and faithfully loue and affect our Prince and King yea of whatsoever religion and are as ready and willing to defend his person honor against all adversaryes etc. that these our factious brethren are as dangerous enimyes vnto the state as the papists etc. Neither you nor any other haue ever yet had or ever I hope shall haue cause justly to speake write or thinke otherwise concernyng either our loue loyalty towards our Soveraigne or our duety to any of his governors yea though we should cunningly be solicited to some vndutifull practises as some not many yeares since were in the dayes of late Q. Elizab. of most Honorable memory who were so farr from enterteyning any such motions as that most dutifully they discovered the same to other in higher authority Though I say we should be cunningly solicited to any undutifull practises or to the approbation of any such practise yet I trust that never any of vs shall be found so to offend against his Majesties meanest and lowest officers G. Powel D. Elmer late B. of London gravely sayd If I were in the company but of one Papist I might justly feare the losse of my life but being amongst ten thousand Precisians well might I be afrayd of my Bishopricke but never of my throate the one would cut my coate and the other my throate The Precisians as it pleaseth B. Elmer to call them never desired the Bishopprickes of any of their adversaryes Answer but onely that they would giue glory to him that sitteth vpon the Throne and cast their miters at the feete of the Lambe acknowledging him worthy of all rule and Dominion contenting themselues with the places and Honors commended in the scriptures according to an other apothegmaticall exhortation of the sayd Bishop both made openly at Paules crosse and also printed before himselfe was so advanced in the world viz. that Bishops and other Prelats should come downe from their thowsands and content themselues with an hundred vntill which abasing of themselues and resignyng that which uniustly they hold reigning as Lords Kings over the Lords inheritance neither the Church of God in generall neither our Soveraigne in speciall shall haue so much service and good by their service neither themselues so much peace and comforte of conscience as otherwise would be G. Powel Though they be free from suspition of treason and rebellion yet it cannot be denyed but that presumptuously and willfully they contend with the Magistrat impugning his authority in things indifferēt Cannot that be denyed which never was neither ever can be proved against us Answer 1 We deny that it is the Magistrats meere pleasure that we should conforme otherwise then by mis information of our adversaryes against us as David upon the like mis information of Ziba against Mephibosheth gaue all to Ziba that had been Mephibosheths 2 Sam. 16.2 Yea they doe not only giue all the mis informations them-selues against us which they can jmagine or wherwith they are informed by other but also they labour what they can to keep the Magistrats from all right information in our behalfe by any other yea they indeavour their vtmost to keep both Parliament and all other from mediation for us 2 Though we yeeld not in all thinges required of us yet it is not presumptuously and wilfully but in all humility modesty we contend not by the sword nor any violence but onely by word yea pleading the word of God for our cause Our contentiō also is in a patient suffering with a duetifull cleering of our innocency against the false imputations wherewith we are burdened The things in question haue been said but never substantially proved to be indifferent in such sorte and to such vses as now they are urged Our adversaries haue so long strivē to maintayne the things which they call indifferent for such uses as to which they are not indifferent that they haue made religion it selfe an in different thing to many men In things truely indifferent it is already justified and shal be further justified if neede requyer that we attribute no lesse to the magistrat then our adversaryes doe Let them name in what sense and degree the Papists deny the Soveraignty of Princes in any thinge and I doubt not but that it may be proved that themselues holding their owne principles doe deny the same in the same sense and degree G. Powel All of them make a faction and schisme in the Church for carnall respects some because they know not otherwise how to be mainteyned some to gratifie their benefactors and Patrons and to please their frends some for discontentment and want of preferment some for giddines of innovation etc. What all M. Powell How doe you forget your selfe Answer You should haue left this generall judgment of all to the generall judge of all There is none of these of whom you speake but for the world and outward things they might liue better conformyng then not cōforming themselues What benefit haue any by gratifying their Patrons Will their Patrons giue them better mayntenance otherwise Nay some Patrons are their adversaryes and are gratified by them that put such Ministers out that so they may present againe etc. Some so displease their frends heerby that by their displeasure they loose more in one day then they get all their life by any Ecclesiasticall living Some also by displeasing their frends doe not only lose temporall benefits for them and theirs but doe also hinder themselues of as great Ecclesiasticall promotion as many or the most of the conformable sort doe ateyne unto Some by their troubles for this cause having had good patrimonyes haue consumed wasted them so that in their age when they need most comfort they liue in penury and want and at their death leaue not so much to their wiues many children as was left to themselues alone Some by want for this cause are forced to take their children of very great hope and forwardnes for learnyng frō the schoole and to make them apprentises to their owne great greife and in time to the detriment of the Church Agayne this imputation of
carnall respects unto us such as you reckon is contrary to your often imputation of superstition unto vs. For what is superstition but to make that sinne that is not sinne and so to feare sinnyng against God as that we doe not that which lawfully we may do or one the contrary to make that good holy and necessary that is nether good holy nor necessary and so to think himselfe bound to doe that which well he might leaue undone If then we be superstitious and doe that which we doe in fearing to sinne against God how can such carnall respects as before are particularized be imputed vnto us But the truth is that these carnall respects doe belong rather to conformiry for which many will doe any thing rather then they will loose their livyngs Of how many also of them may it be sayd that they seeke their owne and not that which is Iesus Christs Philip. 2.21 Yea that their belly is their God their glory their shame and that they mind earthly things Philip. 3.19 that also with Diotrephes that loue to haue the preheminence 3. Ioh. 9. How many of that side haue receaved 500. or 600. pounds from their people since their last Sermon yea since their last presence amongst them Yea are their not some that buy sell benefices as men buye and sell horses Truely there are sōe that being not old mē haue in their dayes passed through many benefices and those of very good worth To whō then doth this imputation of carnall respectes belong Cease therefore cease M. Powell to charge us with that against which there are so many reasons Yea wherein all the world can convince you G. Powel They haue altered the state of the question For the question being about subscription Ceremonyes Conformitie etc. which are but thinges indifferent and of small moment they make it the cause of God the ministery of the gospell the salvation of the people the mayne cause of the land How doe we alter the state of the qvestion Doe we mince that which somtyme we held Answer Doe we goe from any thing which before we maynteyned What ever was in controversie betwixt you and us that is not comprehended under subscription or some other of the particulars by you here mencioned It is meere folly so often to repeate the indifferency of these thinges that hath never been neither can be proved by you For as much also as for not subscribyng and for not conforming to Ceremonyes etc. Many more are thrust out of the ministery then for any other matter of ten tymes greater moment may it not be truely called the cause of God Especially it being in so many bookes proved that they are unlawfull contrary to the word of God Yea sith for these thinges the word is restrayned may we not say that the salvation of the people dependeth therevpon And consequently that it is the mayne cause of the land What is greater then salvation Your selfe grant that we are Ministers of Christ in grace and favour with God It followeth therefore that our cause is the cause of God Luc. 10.16 Yea of the land also because besids salvation many other benefits doe depend upon the ministery of the word and many evills vpon the restraint thereof Prov. 29.18 For this cause the Apostle joyneth these two togeather in the Iewes that they were contrary or adversaryes to all men and forbad them to preach to the Gentles 1. Thessalonians 2. ver 15.16 Touching your often objection of our suspension and deprivation for not conformyng our selues consider this one thing M. Powell and consider it seriously viz. that whē as Iohn and some other Disciples tooke upon them to forbid one casting out Devills that had before done it in the name of Christ and that only because he would not joyne with them and follow them to Christ and that afterward whē they made relation unto Christ of that which they had done and of the reason why they had done it as though they had done some great service as many thinke they doe now great service in forbidding us to preach consider I say agayne that our Saviour was so far from approving that which they had done that he rather reproved it saying Forbid him not Mar. 9.38.39 Whether was a juster cause of suspention not to joyne with such worthy Disciples of our Saviour and that in following them and goeing with them to our Saviour himselfe or not to joyne with the Bishops to conforme our selues unto them in those things wherein we are perswaded we should sinne against Christ and in parte goe away from him For we follow not Christ neither walke with him any longer then we doe obserue his word Further also consider whether is a greater or at the least a better and more necessary worke to cast out Devills from their possession which they had of the bodyes of men or to cast them out from the spirituall possession they haue of the soul of men which eiection is wrought by the preaching the gospell Acts 26.18 G. Powel They make this such a cause as if all religion depended on refusing of a crose and furplice etc. No no. Answer All religion and piety doth not depend on these thinges Yet religion is the lesse and doth the more decay the more that the preaching of the gospell for thes thinges is restrayned The increase of sinne and iniquity in those places already where such Ministers are put out doth too much testifie this thing Heere againe is his former fallacy as eo quod est secundum quid ad id quod est simpliciter We say that some religion dependeth on refussing of a crosse surplice ete Hence he concludeth that all religion dependeth etc. Further whether we make all religion to depend on refussing a crosse surplice etc. or no it semeth that the Bishops make all religion or the most to depend on crosse surplice etc. For if a man yeeld to these things he may passe away with any other matter vncontrolled but if he stands in these things then he is unworthy the ministery whatsoever guiftes he haue how godly soever he be and what good so ever he haue done or might doe by his continuance Is it not so G. Powel They boldly presumptuously and unduetifully censure his Majestie for coldnes in religion for losing his first loue deepe dissembling seeming to pretend one thing and to intend another as if he had been trayned up in the Iesuits schooles to equivocat which fault I would some of their faction did so litle practise as his Majestie abhorres it Wheris there any such censure of his Majestie for coldnes Answer in religion for losing his first loue and for deepe dissembling Nay doth not the author expresly labour the quit contrary professing that he wrote that which he did to this very end that men might not iudge Christian Princes vpon outward apperences yea adding supposed apparences Yea wishyng also lesse censuring of
For these are the expresse words of the psalme which he applyeth to the Parliament for dealing in our behalfe so indeede accusing us as the principall offenders in those sinnes that are mencioned in that psalme but yet making the Parliament also accessary with us in them THE THIRD ARGVMENT It was a fault in Pharaoh his butler that he did no sooner remember to speake to Pharoah for the libertie of Ioseph and for his release from his affliction Gen. 40.14 23. Seeing Ioseph had interpreted his dreame of reconciliation to the grace of Pharaoh and to his former place of earthly honorable service in the house of Pharao Ergo The Parliament ought so to remember the interpretation of the mysteries of God his favor and heavenly kingdome by the ministers now silenced etc. That they doe what lawfully they may to release them of their troubles 1 Marginall notes G. Powel a This and most of the arguments following are grounded upon a false principle viz that the refractary Ministers quarrell against the Church of England is the ministery of the gospell the salvation of the people etc wheras indeed all the contention is about crosse surplice and some other indifferent Ceremonyes and actions in the Church And all these arguments doe specially make against them seeing they be onely disturbers of the sincere profession of the gospell and worke of the ministery yea seeing they forsake their calling and moue so great contention And agayne G. Powel b would God they were halfe so diligent in a good cause as they are importunat to sow schisme and sedition among brethren But they deserue small commendation etc. Reply One reply shall serue to both these notes Especially because as it is noted before all the answer is grounded upon a false principle that we are schismatiks etc. and so worthy of all that hath been done unto us To insist therefore upon this poynt I say first of all that this accusation of vs to be such is a most beggerly begging of the question most unjust untrue and uncharitable never yet proved neither able to be proved vntill they proue the matters in controversie to be meerely indifferent to such uses as whereto they are imployed urged by them yea good and laudable Ceremonies matters of decency and order in the Church yea that we also refuse to conforme our selues unto them more of stomacke then of conscience Much lesse can they justifie their proceedings against and punishing of us yea not onely of us but also of our people a thing most unrighteous and odious to God men in such manner as they haue done especially more for these things which themselues call indifferent small pettie accidentall circumstantiall then they doe other for things expresly forbidden by God himselfe a thousand tymes more offensiue to other and more reprochful and disgracefull to our Church profession and kingdom then these things Yea it is to be observed that notwithstanding all these proceedinges against us all our bookes written against the ceremonyes onely to shew the righteousnes of our cause and all their writtyngs against us none of them haue ever yet either in open consistory or in privat conference that I haue heard of or in publike writing made any one no not one demonstratiue reason necessarily concluding the lawfulnes and the good and necessary use of the things they so heavily impose vppon us Some indeed haue written against some of our arguments but no otherwise then the witt of man may cavill against any principle of religion though never so substantially proved by the best divine upon the earth But to returne to the poynt there is nothing in these two notes and in the rest of the booke objected against vs where with our auncients and betters Our betters heretofore charged as we are now haue not been charged in former tymes Elia was charged with troubling Israell 1 King 18.17 Michaiah might haue been charged with singularity and schisme for dissenting from all the 400 Prophets in Ahabs time 1 King 22. Ieremy was accused by the Preists and Prophets of his tyme to haue spoken against the state of the City and to be therefore worthy to dyc Ierem. 26.11 Amos was charged by Amazia the preist with such conspiracy against the King that the land was not able to beare all his words Amos 7.10 All the Iewes was generally accused by Haman to Ahashuerosh not to haue observed the Kings lawes Ester 3.8 Ezra and the Iewes with him were accused by Rehum Shimshay and other beyond the river to Artashasht the King as rebellious and wicked for building of Ierusalem Yea they were not only so accused for the time present but also for the time to come as we are afterward in the 16 Argument in the marginall note with r that if they were suffered to proceed in building of the City they would not pay toll nor tribute nor custome yea Ezra and his companions were not onely charged to be such but the whole City of Ierusalem for former tymes was also charged to haue been a rebellious noysom City vnto Kings and Provinces that the inhabitants therof had moved sedition of old time that for that cause that Citie had been destroyed Therefore also the sayd Rehum and Shimshay and their companions pretended regard of the Kings Honor in writing so against Ezra and the rest of the Iewes Ezra 4.12 etc. The enimyes of Daniell framed the like accusation of him to Darius Daniell 6. Our Saviour himselfe was blasphemed by the name of a seducer deceiver of the people Ioh. 7.12 Yea oft tymes as a blasphemer profaner of the Saboth a frend to publicans and sinners Paule was accused to haue taught men against the law and the Temple Acts 21.28 and to be a pestilent fellow a mover of sedicion Acts 24.5 yea to be an heretike verse 14. Such also haue been the accusations of all Martyrs by the common adversaries the Papistes It is therefore the more to be marveilled at that our Prelats professing and sometime preaching the gospell doe accuse vs in like manner Yea charge us to disturbe the sincere profession of the gospell and worke of the ministery and yet alleadge no reason heerof or at least no other reason then such as for which all or the most part of those before named were so charged as we haue heard For besides traditions of men antiquity not proved at least not true antiquity the commaundements of Princes procured by themselues uncharitably misinformyng such princes besids thes things I say what else haue they said doe they say or can they say The Ministers not yelding to conformitie are no schimatickes Doe we vary from the sincere doctrine of the scriptures Nay rather many of them doe much more swarue from the same especially sithens their late strong patronizing and urging of these things yea they haue fallen frō that that heertofore hath been constantly and generally held by our Church now
among brethren The assumptiō or second part of the former Argument is granted by the answerer answerer himselfe in his answer to the first Argument yea it is manifest by the good successe of their ministery from God in the sayd Argument mentioned Yea and that this argument from the blessing of God upon their ministery is of force and much to be respected appereth by the words of the blind man reported with commendation by S. Iohn This is a mervelous thing that ye know not whence he is and yet he hath opened myne eyes Now we know that God heareth not sinners but if any man be a worshipper of God and doth his will him heareth he And verse 33. If this mā were not of God he could haue done nothing Was this argumēt good from the opennyng of the eyes of the body of one that was borne bodily blind and is it not much stronger from the openyng of the eyes of the minde of many that are borne spiritually blind The further answer of M. Powel to this third Argument conteyneth nothing but that which is partely answered before and partly to be answered afterward Therefore I passe the same by and come to the 4 argument The Fourth Argument The Israelits so respected a bodily deliverance wrought by Ionathan for them that they saved him from danger of death Ergo Much more ought this Christian high Court of Parliament being not a company of rude souldiers but the cheife flower of this Realme and representing the whole Realme so to respect the spirituall deliverance of themselues and of many other wrought by the Ministers now silenced etc. That they speake what lawfully they may for all lawfull releefe of them against their troubles The marginall notes G. Powel a Ionathans case and the Schismaticall Ministers is altogether unlike And the urging of this zeale having not the like cause seemes to be dangerous But I spare my brethren The author urgeth not this argument from Ionathan as from a like example but from a comparison a minore ad maius from the lesse to the greater Therefore though there be not the like cause yet there being greater viz. From consideration of a spirituall deliverance there is no danger therin The author by this example moveth only the Parliament to be zealous for the saide Ministers Is there danger now in the zeale of so wise judicious an assembly It is also acknowledged by the answerer afterward that the Israelits did justly rescue Ionathan Is there any danger then by an example of them that did justly to provoke the wise Parliament to pleade with a wise and religious Prince for the Ministers Wherin then doth this answerer spare vs that seeketh every corner to find something for which he might if he could hang us G. Powel b The greater is their sinne whose superstition and wilfull obstinacy hath restrained their libertie and made them unserviceable in the Church Reply Is it not a strange thing I had almost saide sinne that it should be accounted sinne superstition and wilfull obstinacy yea such as makes men vnserviceable in the Church in feare of sinnyng against God soberly to refrayne from humane Ceremonyes and yet swearing swaggering rioting gamyng dronkennes whoredome adultry even in the sight of the world should not make men unserviceable etc That such things are in many suffred and countenaunced in the ministry is knowne to many of the Parliament house If his Christian Majestie were also rightly informed thereof I doubt not but that thinges would be otherwise ordered Further answer to the 4 Argument The Ministers did but their duety etc. If men should alwayes be so answered when in their necessities they should require some help and comfort in regard of some former kindnes would not men cōdemne such answerers of great ingratitude in humanitie viz. Thus to be answered that which you haue done was but your duety G. Powel Ionathans example is unlike unto the suppliants For Saule in hypocrisy had made a rash vowe etc. But the actions of our Soveraigne are not so exorbitant etc but advised and just etc. See how wise the children of this world are in their kind Reply The author altogether wisely and purposely as it seemeth concealed the name of Saule in the argument that he might reason from the comparison of the worke onely of Ionathan in a bodily deliverance for the better regard of the Ministers now silenced etc. In respect of the spirituall deliverance of the people by them This I say he doth without any mention at all of Saule that so the worke might be generally and simply respected in it selfe without any perticular eye unto Saule out of whose hāds the people delivered Ionathan He respected their thankefulnes in delivering Ionathan from death without respect of the person that would haue put him to death Agayne I know not why the answerer should thinke the author to meane rather our gracious King as answerable to Saule then the Prelats the cheife and principall actors in all wrongs and injuries done unto the Ministers pleaded for except that either he had rather impute all hard dealing to his Majestie than to the Prelats or that hereby he would provoke the more wrath against the author and all by him supplicated for whom before notwithstanding he seemed greatly to spare Further if the Israelits justly rescued Ionathan as the answerer confesseth they did iustly much more iust is it that many ministers should be releeved in their troubles If yet they presse the author further for meanyng Saule and comparing our King unto him as Saule was the Lords annoynted what is the danger wherein the answerer before should bragge of sparing his brethren Can he gather any undutifulnes towards his Majestie Or can he imagine the author to haue intended any forcible meanes to be used by the Parliament that sitting to make lawes against force and violence towardes any subject must therefore much more themselues be farre from offering any force and violence towards their Soveraigne Doe the words in the Argument to be Zealous and earnest import any such matter Force and violence of any especially of subjects against their Princes is rather of Popish fury and madnes then of any Christian zeale and earnestnes Besides the often most Honorable mention of his Majestie in the Arguments and his expresse pressing the Parliament to doe all in humility modestie in the next argument yea that they should not onely use boldnes but christian boldnes yea that they should put forth all their giftes and graces of knowledge Zeale compassion modesty and humility yea finally that in the preface he petitioneth nothing by him written to be understood of any other meanes then good honest lawfull peaceable and agreable to every mans calling All these things doe abundantly cleere the author from all undnetifull intent and meanyng against his Majestie That the Israelits did not in such humility speake for Ionathan to Saule as they should
and holdes of the Devill may be the truth in part but yet they being in the places alleaged called the charets and horsmen of Israel not of the Saints and most of the Israelits being then wicked and these titles being acknowledged of Elisha by a wicked King that respected not the gathering of the Saints but the outward defence of his kingdome by the prayers and preaching of Elisha it cannot be the whole truth That we are such sores as the answerer speaketh of is not proved Indeed some conformitans so account us because we rub their sores so much and desire so earnestly the healing of them that so their soules may be the better saved We are also eye-sores to them but sure I am that we are not so to the godly many of whose sores God hath cured by us and to whom our ministery hath been the savor of life unto life Other thinges in this argument haue received their reply THE 8 ARGVMENT The proceedings of the Bishops other Ecclesiasticall Iudges against the Ministers in silencing and depriving of them is against the law Ergo. This High Court of Parliament being the chiefest Court of iustice in all this kingdome ought to releeue them The marginall notes upon the 8 Argument The first 3 notes I passe by as note-les G. Powel d Object against these and you shall be answered How shall we be answered With words and raylings Reply as before not otherwise To the oth Ex Officio and to the Canons afterward G. Powel a These men would bring in all by popular triall Nay rather Reply would not the Prelats be glad to haue all persons and all causes subject to themselues But more to this afterward G. Powel b A sensles sentence How can a man in matters of eternall life be cast out of his freehold Reply A simple cavill from the misplacing of a comma The Notary might well haue perceived that these wordes in matters of eternall life were to be joyned with the words goyng before ambassadors of Iesus Christ not with the words following should be cast out of their freehold This I say he might well haue perceived because there had been no speech of our freehold of eternall life but only of this life G. Powel c The Ecclesiasticall judge may proceed Ex officio d directly against the statute 1 Elizab cap 2 Reply These two notes being in the margine contiguoe and touching one another I joyne together in my reply the rather because d the letter of the second note and the mention of the statute in the end of the sayd second note omitted they may both in better sense and truth be read thus togeather Ecclesiasticall Iudges may proceed ex officio directly against the statute For touching the former note with c let the best Civilian shew if he can by what other law the Ecclesiasticall judge may proceed ex officio then by the Canon law abolished by statute The second note with d shall be satisfied afterward The note with e of begging the question is now too stale G. Powel f As if God and his Sonne Christ Iesus were not president of the religious assembly already An unchristian suggestion Reply When the Prophet exhorteth the Church to open her dores for the King of glory to come in psal 24 7 9 Cant 5 2 did he signifie that the Church had not before interteyned the King of glory When Christ saith Open unto me my sister etc. doth he meāe that his sister had him not at all before Christ dayly knocketh by his word and Sacraments Revel 3.20 at the heartes of all the faithfull to be let in Are they therfore altogether without Christ Allthough therfore Christ be already president in the Parliament yet by the propounding of any good cause he desireth to be further interteyned amongst them This the author hath acknowledged by calling thē often a Christian assembly by commending their Christian zeale against the Papists etc. But this is the answerers sophistry before noted Sophistry to reason from the wāt of a thing in part to the want thereof altogether Therefore this is an vnchristian and simple collection Further answer to the 8 Argument G. Powel I am constrayned to dance as the suppliants Pipe They lead and I followe Nay we haue piped unto you and yee haue not danced Reply We haue mourned unto you and yee haue not lamented Mat 11.19 Neither to evident Argumentes out of holy scripture will you submit your human ordinances or your selues neither by any gentle and humble petitions will yee Prelats come to any brotherly peace Mildnes doth as much provoke you as bitternes M. Nichols of Kent writyng most mildly and humbly was rewarded severely with suspension deprivation degradation Our most humble petition to the Convocation at the first Session of this Parliament received a most rough answer We seeke peace and when we speake thereof ye are bent to warre psal 120 7. Iob. 31 8. As though yee sate in heavenly places we haue been unto you more vile then the earth I complaīe not thus of all the Prelats I know that some are wiser milder kinder and more curteous thē other As the bramble tooke more upon it then the Oliue tree Iudg. 8.15 the vine or the fig tree so sometyme it is among Prelats G. Powel Hitherto they prayed your Honors but to speake for them etc. Now they urge you to determyne and actually to decree something in their behalfe We neither prayed nor urged any thing to be doone but with all humility and loyalty G. Powel hoping that his most excellent Majesty vpon the sight of the reasons why they had decreed or determined any thing so farre as they might among themselues would likewise in his Princely and christian regard haue vouchafed his Royall assent to their such decrees and determinations which although it haue not pleased his Highnes yet to doe yet we hope that heerafter upon further cōsideration some other may find further grace with his Majestie in the like behalfe G. Powel To the consequence of the former Argument The consequence hath 2 parts whereof the first is granted but that the deprived and suspended ministers ought to be restored is denyed because they haue not justified their cause and declared that they are vnjustly oppressed nor can ever doe Reply Touching the former answer may it please the reader first to remember that all the authors speech of the proceedings of the Bishops against Ministers suspended etc is only to be understood of such Ministers as whom they suspend and depriue onely for such causes as are mentioned in the title of the Argumentes not of other whom they suspend or depriue for any just cause Now to proceede that such Ministers haue not yet in law whereof the present question is justified there cause and declared that they are unjustly oppressed nor can ever doe is not
much before Iohn as he had before preferred Iohn before the Prophets Lastly the ministery of the gospell is greater then the knowledge of the gospell because it is both the end for which God giveth more knowledge to some then to other and also the cause that worketh knowledge in other If therfore the least in the kingdome of heaven be greater theÌ„ Iohn Baptist in respect of knowledg which is the least then much more is the least minister of the gospell greater then Iohn Baptist in respect of his ministery which is the greater The note with c is not worth a Cee as they speake at Oxford of single beere Further answer to the 9. Argument G. Powel He doth any kindnes to a Minister as he is a minister shall haue reward But if a Minister doe otherwise then he ought as these refractaries doe what kindnes then ought such to haue What a multitude of conformable Ministers are quite overthrowne by this Argument Reply For doe not many of them otherwise then they ought Yea doe not more of them otherwise then all thes now in question Is not this so to stand in a gap as that the gap is troden downe and a dore opened for all men to deny all duety to all Ministers For who doth not otherwise theÌ„ he ought to doe G. Powel Let the refractary Ministers duetifully serue God and his Church in their diligent and humble obeydience in the worke of their vocation Then let them supplicat for kindnes etc. What is that dilligent and humble obedience etc Reply To put on a Surplice to make a vanishing Cross to read service to acknowledge the Prelats to haue power to make ordinances against Gods word etc. How shall they supplicat With an 100. or 200. in a bagge Then perhaps if they arise betymes and ryde a pase they shall haue a payre of benefices an Archdeconry etc yea liberty also to goe whither they will never to come at any of their benefices but only in gathering time or if they lie at one of their benefices they shall haue leaue I to suspeÌ„d themselues from preaching as long as the list yea to do what else they will without controllment so it be not against conformity Notwithstanding the Canon for halfe yeares residence at either of their livinges they haue many quirkes to avoyd the danger therof THE 10. ARGVMENT The Lord hath forbidden all wrong to any of his servants especially to Ministers He threateneth also to revenge the least iniury done unto them psal 105.15 exod 17.14 15. 1. Sam. 15.3 Iudg. 5.23 and performeth that which he hath threatned Neither doth he account them onely guiltie of the former fault that doe his people any hurt but those also that doe not help in their need Ergo The high Court of Parliament ought to take the present opportunitie for releeving the Ministers molested The marginall notes of this Argument conteyne nothing but a vayne repetition of matters before noted and answered they conteyne nothing but that we are Schismatiks false prophets etc cruell in forsaking our charges for litle or nothing etc. I doe therfore dismisse them with admiration as of the notaryes barrenes and folly so also of the virtue of Cross and Surplice As the Ephesians cryed out of their Diana Acts 19.28 Great is Diana of the Ephesians so say I great are Cross and Surplice of the Conformitans The use of them maketh men Gods Prophets true prophets peaceable men faithfull Ministers but the refusall of them makes men schismaticall cruell superstitious false prophets etc. Who would not be in loue with them wherein there is such excellent virtue How many may more truely sacrifice to them Habba 1 16 then some sometymes are sayd to haue sacrificed to their nets Further answer to the 10. Argument G. Powel It is an ungratfull yea an ungracious parte of these supplicants to taxe the Honorable assembly or any Magistrate in this land so undutifully and unchristiantly for unjust cruell and mercilesse dealyng Who doth so taxe them Reply Doth every one that admonish other of that which God forbiddeth or threatneth taxe them whom he doth so admonish of those faultes that are forbidden Your selfe haue taxed them indeede before of matters nothing beseemyng you yea and the Prelats doe dayly taxe if not also threathen to excommunicate them for dealyng so much for us for opposing themselues so much to the Prelacy for doeyng so much as they haue doone against non residency the disorders of the high Commission the abuse of citations the horrible abuse of the great censure of the Church Excommunication etc yea for dealing at all in the matters of religion yea haue they not more stoutly then wisely sent out their Inhibition against them in that behalfe Thus they may doe what they list Psal 12 as though their tongues were their owne and there were no Lord over them but we poore men oppressed by them may not humbly petition to the Parliament but that we are presently exclaymed of as ungratefull and ungracious as undutifully and unchristiantly taxeyng them for uniust cruell and merciles dealyng Wherefore doe they thus charge us Because they feare that we will lay the same thinges to their charge But though they doe thus esteeme of our petition yet we hope it is better accepted of the Honorable Courte unto which it was directed Wheras in the rest of the answer to this 10. ArgumeÌ„t he sayth the refractary Ministers as he calleth them were never proceeded against for preachyng the gospell or for appertune sober executyng their Ministery this is utterly untrue for some haue been molested for preachyng any thinge tendyng against the present Hierarchy or any other corruptions some also for confuting the Popish doctrine of other though they haue doone it never so soberly and some for other matters which are poyntes of the gospell as well as other THE 11 ARGVMENT Pharao in the great Egiptian famine at his owne cost provided for all his Idolatrous priests Gen 47 22 that they might not sell their lands The Monks and Fryars in Popery yet in the twylight of the gospell at the dissolution of the Abbyes were provided for duryng their life tyme. Ergo The high Court of Parliament in this cleare light of the gospell ought much more to provide that the ministers of the gospell may not be turned out a beggyng with their wiues and children as they are when all other haue their fill The Marginall Notes G. Powel e VVhere superstition fitteth Iudge there neyther nature nor reason may dare to plead the cause Alas it is very lamentable that some men I know not for what carnall respects had rather curry favour with other and beholding to other men theÌ„ conscionably liue 〈◊〉 â—â—eir owne They should well consider the saying of the Apost 1 Tim. 5.8 Reply In divine matters neither superstition must sit Iudge neyther must things be pleaded by
nature or reason but all must be done by the word of God the store house of divinity They are superstitious that stryue more for reteyning and practising of humane Ceremonyes in the worship of God be the pretense what it will then they regard the truth of God The answerer as a very pitifull man cryeth out Alas it is lamentable etc. But one of these poore Ministers yea many of them by reason of their trobles may come ten-tymes to some of his great Masters houses and not be offred once to drinke of a cupe but the truth is they haue forgotten Apostolicall hospitality and they haue learned Lordly Episcopall hostility Further marke here his contradiction or oblivion Before in his consideration of the preface to the Arguments he hath expresly charged them with divers particular carnall respects etc. Now he sayth contradictiō that he knoweth not for what carnall respects they curry favour etc. As for currying of favour it belongeth rather to some hungry trencher chaplines then to those against whom he writeth Yea 2 Sam. 16 13 2 Sam 19 18 as Shimei that cursed David when his kingdome was somwhat doubtfull yet at his safe returne and reestablishing of the Crowne unto him was as forward as any other by creepyng and crouchyng by flattering and fawnyng to curry favour agayne with David so it is well if there haue been no such curryers of favor among the Prelats The place of Timothy is abused It might in like sort haue been applyed to all the Martyrs We must not provide for our familyes by doyng any thing against Gods word That we had rather liue of our owne then of other mens is manifest in that we doe so earnestly sue to be restored to our places the rather that we may not be chargable to other G. Powel b Alas let them haue pity upon themselues and leaue their quarreling and they shall not be neglected This is spoken more like an Archbishop that had power to preferre other Reply then like a young chapline that needed and wayted for preferment himselfe I know not who may more justly be charged with quarrelling then they that beate and buffet their fellow servants yea then they that smite Christs Syster his loue his Doue his undefiled yea not only smite her but also woūd her and take her vayle from her We would gladly liue in peace with holines but we cannot be suffered Further answer to the 11. Argument G. Powel The Argument doth not follow because of the dissimilitude in the instances or examples The Argument doth follow the better Reply because of the similitude of instances as the answerer speaketh or rather because it is a minore ad maius from the lesse to the greater This inequality of examples rather strenghtneth then weakeneth the Argument and the cause But let us see his dissimilitudes G. Powel i Pharao thought his priests to professe true religion and diligently to obey him etc But refractary Ministers though professing true religion yet doe obstinatly beyng blynded with superstition refuse to serue God etc Reply As Pharao was in error touchyng the religion obedience of his Priests so are our Prelats touching our refractariness and superstition The obedience of the molested ministers to his Majestie as good as the best Conformitans as hath been sheewed Our obedience to his Majestie is as good as of the best of their syde That mans obedience to a Mayor of a towne or to any other inferior officer of a Prince is alwayes the best that is most agreable to the pleasure of the Prince himselfe In like manner that obedience is best unto Princes that doth best agree with the pleasure of the Prince of Princes and King of Kings To obey the inferior without due regard of the superiors pleasure is but flattery and fawnyng not good obedience So to obey Princes without due regard to our dutie to God For it is more prejudiciall and hurtfull then beneficiall or profitable to such Princes See the words of Samuell to the Israelits 1 Sam. 12.15 25 the example of Ioab in numbring the people by the commaundement of David whereupon followed an exceeding plague Touching the serving of God and his Church in the faith full and diligent function and exercise of the Ministery we are unjustly charged to refuse it for we humbly and earnestly desire it aboue all maintenance and for this desire we are thrust out of our livyng G. Powel 2 The Monks and Fryars were put out against their wills for Sodomi heresie Idolatry etc The refractary Ministers are willingly deprived for obstinate superstition in refusing sincerely to Preach the gospell not beyng conformable to the Christian lawes of our Church and Magistrat The more justly that Monks and Fryars were put out Reply the stronger is the Argument for us to be provided for that are put out unjustly without objection of any such foule crymes to us as for which they were put out Yet it is false that they were put out for heresie or Idolatry though they were heretikes and Idolaters For they were suffered still in their heresie Idolatry as well after their putting out as before Neither also are we willingly deprived any othewise then Marriners willingly throwe their goods over boord into the sea Acts 27.38 to save their liues and the ship the better Of superstition I haue spoken often this now I ad that many account carefulnes to keep a good conscience in smale matters as well as in great to be superstition And in the meane tyme themselues care neither for great nor smal matters any further thē there are lawes of man in that behalfe As for superstition indeed we are silenced and deprived because we will not yeeld to humā Ceremonyes that haue been and are superstitiously abused in the worship of God and of Idols amongst the Papists whatsoever they are amongst us It is also as false that we refuse to be conformable to Christian lawes G. Powel Monks and Fryars could not haue kept their places by submitting themselues But these may by conformyng themselues c. I know no condition of submission offered to Monks etc Touching the rest we thanke you for nothing Reply This is the curtesie of Prelats to make us pay decre for our lyvings even to buye them with sinnyng against God as some of them are sayd to doe with Symony and otherwise But we dare not accept them at the price The rest haue been often answered I haue not such leysure to use tautologies as the answerer seemeth to haue had at the writing of his answer as though he were connyng a lesson by heart in feare of beating for forgetting the same THE 12. ARGVMENT Iames 5.6 Apoc. 5 8 Ezra 6 10 Cenes 20 7 The prayers of all the godly are much to be esteemed Especially of the Ministers of the word Ergo In this behalfe the Ministers now troubled are the
might be the more suitable to the Arguments thēselues that the author of them might haue no cause justly to blame me for disgracing his work and the cause it selfe by a contrary course and that the mindes of the Prelats may rather be molified towards vs. then any thing more exasperated against us If it fall out otherwise and that our mildnes doe still increase their rigor God I hope shall giue us patience to indure whatsoever he shall suffer them to doe unto us together also with such comfort as all the world shall not be able to take away from us For we are so throughly perswaded from the evidence of Gods truth revealed in his word and sealed up in our hearts by his spirit the cause wherein we stand to be the cause of Christ Iesus that we say with Paule Acts 21.13 we are ready not to be bound onely neither onely to loose our livings but also herein to dye for the name of the Lord Iesus I speake not this seditiously and therfore let no man so wrest my words but I speake with that mind and in that manner that Paule spake the former words to signifie our readines for suffering any thing which the Prelats shall do unto us not for doyng any thing to resist them Some of thē harpe much vpon this string as appereth by wresting of our words in most malicious manner in the former answer against us yea they seeme also to thinke long for some law or other of this land to be wrested against us to make some of us examples unto other by sheading of our bloud but if they should so fare prevaile which I hope they shall never doe in the dayes of gracious and mercifull King Iames nor in the dayes of any of his most Royall bloud let them remember the words of Ieremy in the like case Ieremy 26 14 15 to the Priests and Prophets that sought his bloud As for me be hold I am in your hands doe with me as you thinke good and right But know you for certeyne that if ye put me to death ye shall surely bring innocent bloud upon your selues and upon this Citie and upon the inhabitants thereof etc. For of a truth the Lord hath sent me to speake all these wordes unto you Yea let them not onely remember those words but so also take admonition by them that in the presence of God they be not guiltie of high treason against our most Christian Soveraigne against his Royall issue and against the whole land by provoking the Lord to inflict such judgments upon all as the wordes before mentioned doe insinuat We are in their handes 2 Chron 24 22 ready without any resistance meekely to suffer any thing but he that judgeth righteous iudgment though he sit in the heavens will looke upon it and one day as Zechariah in the like case sayd will requyre it as indeed then he did Not withstanding I am so farre from Prophecying or wishyng any judgment to the whole land though I cannot but feare it that I doe and will earnestly pray Ioel 2.17 Gen 18 26 spare this thy people ô Lord and giue not this part of thyne heritage into reproch etc. Yea I doe the more hope of mercy in sparyng us yet a while longer because of the great multitude of the righteous in the land and because perticularly of many that haue been and yet are under Christ dressers of this the Lords vineyard that day and night whiles many Prelats eate and drinke and take their ease and pleasure doe pray the Lord of this his vineyard to let it yet alone Luk. 13 8 and to spare it a while longer But for all this whosoever shall procure the bloud of the meanest of us to be shead under whatsoever pretence let them know that such bloud shall cry louder in the eares of the Lord of Hosts for vengeance upon the procurers therof then ever we haue cryed in the eares either of our most gracious Soveraigne whom God long preserue in person and in vprightnes of heart or of the High Court of Parliament for Iustice If their shall be iudgment merciles to him that sheweth no mercy what shall the portion be of the cruell bloud thirsty Iames 2 13 Pro 21 13 Verely though they cry yet the Lord shall not heare them As also they that put the Martyrs to death missed of their purpose so shall all bloud thirsty and ambitious Papall Prelats Epist 243. Sanguis martirum semen Ecclesie The bloud of Martyrs is the seed of the Church and foecundi saith Calvin sunt martyrum cineres The very ashes of Martyrs are fruitfull The truth may be oppressed but it cannot be suppressed yea the more it is oppressed the more it shall bud forth spring If one of us in this cause should be put to death though perhaps under colour of some other offence by perverting of words wresting of law or otherwise yet for that on the Lord can rayse up ten yea there is nothing that hath made or doth make the cause of Papall Prelats more odious and the reformation desired more gracious and honorable even with some that before the consideration of that which I now say were of another minde then the unjust and especially the unmercifull proceedings of such Papall Prelats against the seekers of reformation Philip 1 28 Therfore in this case as the Apostle exhorteth the Philippians we doe in nothing feare our adversaries because as to be our adversaryes in such respects is to them a token of perdition if they repent not so also to be hated and persecuted by the Prelats is a like token to us of salvation and that of God But beyng so confident why doe we conceale our names to our writings Because as Christ Iesus notwithstanding all his heavenly fortitude without any defect did for all that oft tymes hide and with drawe himselfe from the furie and rage of the Priests Scribes and Pharises till his appoynted time was come so doe we by this meanes hyde our selues from the violence of some of our Prelats To your conclusion I will answer litle because it hath litle that hath not been answered before Wheras you say that wordes are to be numbred to so great states I answer that words are not onely to be numbred but also for the quality truth modesty sincerity and equity of them to be weighed and considered which if you had doone your whole labor had ben spared If you did greiue in your soule to heare us complayne of our povertie why doe you by bitter rayling false accusations and most unjust vnreasonable wresting of your antigonists words against all other Ministers of his sorte ad affliction to our affliction doe you not know that by this circumstance David amplyfied his cōplaynts and deprecations against his adversaryes Is this to iudge wisely of the poore Psal 69 and 109.16 Psal 41.1 Whereas you wish us to be a shamed of