complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o 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deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
i_o feign_v nothing_o nor_o witting_o misreport_n any_o thing_n no_o not_o in_o the_o least_o circumstance_n neither_o have_v i_o take_v up_o report_n light_o but_o what_o ever_o i_o affirm_v or_o assert_v in_o this_o answer_n i_o either_o have_v it_o from_o their_o own_o mouth_n or_o can_v show_v it_o in_o their_o own_o letter_n or_o in_o other_o manuscript_n or_o in_o some_o print_a book_n of_o man_n of_o their_o way_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o credible_a person_n many_o of_o they_o ear_n witness_n and_o eye-witness_n upon_o the_o place_n all_o which_o witness_n be_v either_o learned_a godly_a judicious_a minister_n or_o else_o godly_a christian_n some_o their_o friend_n and_o familiar_n who_o have_v be_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o they_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n and_o i_o appeal_v to_o many_o of_o my_o reverend_a brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n and_o to_o many_o godly_a christian_n and_o to_o the_o conscience_n of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o apology_n upon_o second_o thought_n and_o to_o their_o own_o follower_n and_o church-member_n whether_o all_o along_o i_o speak_v not_o the_o truth_n our_o ear_n have_v be_v of_o late_a so_o fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a unexpected_a apolog._n noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n though_o not_o so_o express_o direct_v against_o we_o in_o particular_a yet_o in_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o most_o reflect_v on_o we_o that_o awaken_v thereby_o we_o be_v enforce_v to_o anticipate_v a_o little_a that_o discovery_n of_o ourselves_o which_o otherwise_o we_o resolve_v to_o have_v leave_v to_o time_n and_o experience_n of_o our_o way_n and_o spirit_n the_o true_a discoverer_n and_o sure_a judge_n of_o all_o man_n and_o their_o action_n you_o make_v the_o ground_n and_o occasion_n of_o set_v forth_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n now_o to_o be_v your_o ear_n of_o late_a so_o fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n interpretative_o reflect_v on_o you_o it_o will_v hardly_o be_v believe_v by_o wise_a man_n that_o such_o man_n as_o you_o shall_v make_v such_o a_o apology_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o juncture_n of_o time_n the_o assembly_n sit_v and_o be_v upon_o discipline_n and_o you_o member_n of_o it_o upon_o so_o weak_a and_o slight_a ground_n as_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n come_v to_o your_o ear_n which_o as_o they_o be_v soon_o raise_v so_o be_v they_o as_o soon_o go_v and_o often_o die_v of_o themselves_o and_o by_o wise_a man_n nothing_o more_o slight_v especial_o be_v sudden_a and_o confuse_a if_o other_o of_o your_o brethren_n who_o swim_v not_o with_o the_o stream_n of_o the_o time_n and_o be_v not_o the_o darling_n of_o the_o people_n shall_v upon_o every_o occasion_n of_o their_o ear_n fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n even_o when_o they_o be_v express_o direct_v against_o they_o and_o not_o only_o in_o interpretation_n reflect_v on_o they_o write_v apology_n and_o make_v defence_n they_o shall_v judge_v they_o have_v little_a to_o do_v and_o may_v have_v fill_v city_n and_o country_n with_o apology_n before_o now_o there_o be_v who_o will_v not_o be_v persuade_v but_o be_v induce_v rather_o to_o think_v there_o be_v other_o motive_n and_o ground_n of_o your_o writing_n that_o apology_n at_o that_o time_n and_o the_o rather_o because_o there_o have_v be_v heretofore_o such_o noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n at_o least_o interpretative_o reflect_v on_o you_o and_o you_o pass_v they_o by_o shall_v i_o tell_v you_o what_o be_v judge_v to_o have_v rather_o enforce_v you_o unto_o this_o work_n many_o of_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o city_n not_o long_o before_o draw_v up_o a_o letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n concern_v some_o church_n grievance_n and_o in_o particular_a that_o of_o gather_v of_o church_n and_o draw_v away_o their_o people_n which_o letter_n as_o it_o be_v not_o direct_v in_o particular_a against_o you_o so_o it_o reflect_v in_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n upon_o many_o other_o rather_o then_o yourselves_o which_o letter_n how_o it_o be_v accept_v of_o by_o the_o assembly_n and_o what_o speech_n and_o motion_n be_v upon_o it_o how_o to_o remedy_n and_o prevent_v the_o evil_n represent_v and_o especial_o that_o of_o gather_a church_n you_o better_o know_v then_o i._n but_o soon_o after_o some_o consideration_n be_v put_v forth_o by_o many_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o dissuade_v from_o gather_v church_n to_o which_o consideration_n your_o hand_n be_v subscribe_v upon_o what_o reason_n you_o comply_v in_o that_o and_o whether_o you_o can_v not_o well_o avoid_v it_o without_o great_a prejudice_n to_o your_o cause_n you_o know_v best_a and_o now_o whether_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n be_v not_o first_o hasten_v to_o follow_v upon_o these_o consideration_n to_o counterbalance_n that_o act_n of_o you_o against_o further_a gather_v of_o church_n that_o your_o cause_n and_o way_n may_v receive_v no_o loss_n and_o prejudice_n and_o to_o satisfy_v your_o own_o party_n many_o of_o they_o great_o exclaim_v against_o you_o for_o your_o hand_n to_o those_o consideration_n and_o so_o think_v by_o this_o after_o game_n to_o recover_v all_o i_o leave_v to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v 2._o whether_o also_o you_o well_o know_v that_o the_o assembly_n be_v upon_o the_o border_n of_o the_o main_a point_n in_o difference_n and_o upon_o come_v to_o debate_v presbytery_n ordination_n excommunication_n you_o put_v not_o forth_o this_o book_n to_o taste_v and_o try_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o other_o before_o hand_n 3._o whether_o also_o this_o be_v not_o intend_v to_o prepossess_a the_o people_n mind_n to_o lay_v in_o prejudice_n against_o what_o the_o assembly_n may_v determine_v and_o by_o discover_v yourselves_o so_o before_o hand_n and_o so_o public_o engage_v yourselves_o your_o party_n may_v appear_v and_o stand_v the_o more_o by_o you_o and_o with_o you_o for_o a_o toleration_n the_o great_a design_n of_o the_o man_n of_o this_o way_n in_o these_o time_n 4._o last_o whether_o as_o much_o as_o you_o dare_v this_o apology_n be_v not_o set_v out_o just_a upon_o the_o comming-in_a of_o our_o brethren_n of_o scotland_n to_o our_o help_n to_o asperse_v the_o government_n and_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o to_o lessen_v the_o esteem_n of_o that_o kingdom_n and_o church_n so_o much_o and_o so_o deserve_o value_v by_o this_o kingdom_n but_o look_v upon_o by_o all_o the_o man_n of_o the_o new_a church_n way_n as_o the_o great_a let_v of_o their_o independent_a government_n these_o reason_n with_o some_o other_o may_v well_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o your_o apology_n but_o that_o allege_a by_o you_o the_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n seem_v so_o far_o from_o a_o reason_n that_o upon_o good_a ground_n be_v doubt_v whether_o it_o can_v be_v true_a that_o a_o noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n reflect_v on_o you_o and_o your_o way_n can_v be_v sudden_a and_o unexpected_a to_o you_o it_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o exclamation_n shall_v be_v to_o you_o at_o that_o time_n unexpected_a that_o a_o few_o man_n go_v in_o a_o new_a by_o way_n different_a from_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o christendom_n and_o that_o with_o so_o high_a a_o hand_n as_o you_o and_o your_o party_n have_v do_v shall_v not_o expect_v speak_v against_o and_o to_o have_v their_o ear_n fill_v with_o outcry_n and_o exclamation_n not_o only_o confuse_v and_o interpretative_a but_o distinct_a particular_a and_o personal_a now_o as_o the_o pretend_a ground_n of_o make_v this_o apology_n be_v take_v from_o you_o so_o what_o you_o affirm_v in_o the_o follow_a word_n that_o you_o be_v awaken_v thereby_o be_v deny_v for_o you_o have_v never_o be_v asleep_a since_o your_o come_n over_o into_o england_n but_o have_v be_v always_o watchful_a and_o intent_n to_o the_o uttermost_a upon_o all_o thing_n which_o may_v either_o further_o your_o way_n or_o may_v hinder_v it_o it_o be_v we_o who_o need_v something_o to_o awaken_v we_o as_o have_v be_v too_o much_o asleep_a in_o respect_n of_o you_o for_o whilst_o the_o husbandman_n have_v sleep_v you_o have_v both_o sow_v tare_n and_o reap_v a_o harvest_n but_o i_o be_o in_o hope_n that_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n and_o this_o antapologia_fw-la together_o will_v awaken_v both_o parliament_n minister_n and_o people_n more_o and_o more_o and_o open_a man_n eye_n to_o judge_v of_o thing_n aright_o between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o for_o the_o be_v enforce_v to_o anticipate_v a_o little_a that_o discovery_n of_o yourselves_o which_o otherwise_o you_o resolve_v to_o have_v leave_v to_o time_n and_o experience_n of_o your_o way_n and_o spirit_n it_o appear_v manifest_o
upon_o our_o person_n in_o our_o absence_n begin_v by_o our_o presence_n again_o and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o in_o a_o great_a measure_n to_o scatter_v and_o vanish_v without_o speak_v a_o word_n for_o ourselves_o or_o cause_n and_o if_o at_o your_o first_o appear_v so_o many_o of_o those_o mist_n and_o in_o so_o great_a a_o measure_n be_v vanish_v then_o sure_o by_o that_o time_n your_o writ_n this_o apology_n all_o may_v have_v be_v vanish_v and_o scatter_v but_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o who_o mis-apprehension_n do_v you_o understand_v you_o lay_v under_o that_o you_o present_v this_o apology_n to_o the_o parliament_n and_o appeal_v to_o they_o do_v you_o mean_v you_o have_v lie_v under_o the_o dark_a cloud_n of_o the_o manifold_a mis-apprehension_n of_o the_o parliament_n 〈◊〉_d or_o of_o the_o people_n of_o the_o kingdom_n certain_o not_o under_o the_o dark_a cloud_n of_o the_o mis-apprehension_n of_o the_o parliament_n they_o be_v too_o great_a and_o wise_a a_o body_n 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in_o those_o time_n our_o service_n and_o stand_n all_o man_n apprehension_n will_v ready_o acquit_v we_o here_o begin_v the_o narration_n wherein_o we_o may_v consider_v the_o matter_n of_o it_o and_o the_o manner_n and_o way_n of_o the_o carriage_n and_o contrivance_n of_o it_o the_o matter_n consist_v partly_o of_o fact_n and_o practice_n and_o partly_o of_o opinion_n and_o tenant_n both_o which_o all_o along_o in_o their_o narration_n be_v interweave_v within_o each_o other_o their_o opinion_n and_o tenant_n in_o their_o practice_n and_o their_o practice_n in_o their_o opinion_n the_o matter_n of_o the_o narration_n consist_v of_o three_o main_a part_n first_o of_o their_o opinion_n and_o fact_n before_o their_o exile_n the_o second_o of_o their_o opinion_n and_o practice_n in_o their_o exile_n the_o three_o of_o their_o carriage_n and_o behaviour_n since_o their_o return_n into_o england_n from_o their_o first_o come_v over_o to_o the_o time_n of_o put_v forth_o this_o apology_n 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which_o you_o say_v to_o be_v true_a that_o you_o hold_v all_o apolog._n fair_a correspondency_n with_o they_o that_o may_v be_v upon_o other_o ground_n for_o your_o own_o advantage_n and_o benefit_v many_o way_n you_o be_v stranger_n and_o they_o in_o their_o own_o country_n as_o also_o to_o see_v if_o you_o can_v gain_v any_o of_o their_o minister_n to_o your_o churchway_n and_o as_o for_o your_o receive_v some_o of_o their_o member_n unto_o communion_n in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o may_v be_v but_o to_o strengthen_v your_o own_o way_n and_o to_o advance_v that_o church-principle_n of_o receive_v they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o relation_n of_o membership_n and_o here_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v two_o question_n to_o you_o 1._o whether_o in_o receive_v some_o member_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n who_o desire_v to_o communicate_v with_o you_o you_o put_v they_o upon_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o their_o church_n and_o belong_v thereunto_o as_o you_o do_v the_o english_a who_o come_v to_o you_o 2._o though_o you_o receive_v some_o of_o they_o unto_o communion_n in_o your_o church_n whether_o any_o of_o you_o ever_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n in_o any_o of_o their_o church_n or_o in_o any_o of_o the_o english_a church_n in_o holland_n who_o be_v not_o of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n but_o grant_v all_o you_o say_v in_o all_o your_o profession_n of_o your_o respect_n and_o hold_v communion_n with_o the_o dutch_a church_n whereby_o you_o will_v free_v yourselves_o from_o the_o imputation_n of_o separation_n and_o make_v the_o reader_n believe_v the_o brownist_n and_o you_o have_v no_o affinity_n i_o answer_v you_o say_v no_o more_o nor_o hardly_o so_o much_o as_o mr_n robinson_n write_v in_o his_o apology_n 25_o year_n since_o of_o those_o reform_a church_n page_z 10_o 11._o now_o for_o the_o way_n and_o practice_v of_o our_o church_n we_o give_v this_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n our_o public_a worship_n be_v make_v up_o of_o no_o other_o part_n then_o the_o worship_n of_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n do_v consist_v of_o as_o public_a and_o solemn_a prayer_n for_o king_n and_o all_o in_o authority_n etc._n etc._n the_o read_n the_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n exposition_n of_o they_o as_o occasion_n be_v and_o constant_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n the_o administration_n of_o the_o two_o sacrament_n baptism_n to_o infant_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n sing_v of_o psalm_n collection_n for_o the_o poor_a etc._n etc._n every_o lord_n day_n for_o officer_n and_o public_a ruler_n in_o the_o church_n we_o set_v up_o no_o other_o but_o the_o very_a same_o which_o the_o reform_a church_n judge_v necessary_a and_o sufficient_a and_o as_o institute_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n for_o the_o perpetual_a government_n of_o his_o church_n that_o be_v pastor_n teacher_n ruling-elders_a with_o we_o not_o lay_v but_o ecclesiastic_a person_n separate_v to_o that_o service_n and_o deacon_n 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the_o church_n and_o no_o other_o sin_n to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o that_o dreadful_a sentence_n in_o this_o section_n you_o give_v we_o a_o narration_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n wherein_o in_o the_o beginning_n you_o tell_v the_o reader_n we_o give_v this_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n but_o how_o much_o better_o have_v it_o be_v and_o more_o proper_a to_o have_v give_v a_o full_a and_o particular_a account_n here_o then_o in_o your_o other_o part_n about_o new-england_n and_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o holland_n a_o full_a and_o particular_a account_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n have_v answer_v more_o the_o nature_n of_o such_o a_o narration_n and_o will_v have_v satisfy_v all_o man_n but_o why_o do_v you_o in_o the_o most_o material_a part_n give_v such_o a_o brief_a and_o general_a account_n know_v that_o under_o brevity_n and_o generality_n there_o lie_v much_o mistake_n and_o deceit_n and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o 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bridge_n inform_v i_o and_o of_o the_o exercise_v of_o prophecy_n in_o mr_n sympson_n church_n at_o rotterdam_n as_o well_o as_o at_o arnheim_n i_o can_v out_o of_o manuscript_n produce_v how_o argument_n be_v frame_v to_o draw_v away_o people_n from_o our_o church_n upon_o this_o ground_n as_o be_v defective_a in_o some_o ordinance_n namely_o prophesy_v and_o beside_o prophesy_v i_o propound_v it_o to_o you_o whether_o some_o of_o you_o have_v not_o hold_v out_o some_o other_o public_a worship_n than_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v namely_o hymn_n and_o anoint_v the_o sick_a member_n of_o the_o church_n with_o oil_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o little_a before_o your_o come_n over_o into_o england_n some_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n do_v not_o propound_v the_o holy_a kiss_n or_o the_o kiss_n of_o love_n to_o be_v practise_v by_o church-member_n nay_o whether_o by_o some_o person_n in_o that_o church_n be_v it_o not_o begin_v to_o be_v use_v and_o practise_v and_o in_o 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shall_v have_v lay_v down_o particular_o as_o wherein_o and_o how_o far_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o also_o wherein_o you_o depart_v from_o they_o namely_o you_o shall_v have_v show_v in_o what_o you_o practise_v more_o than_o they_o do_v and_o wherein_o you_o practise_v short_a of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o thing_n you_o practise_v with_o they_o yet_o how_o you_o differ_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o they_o but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o of_o censure_n reform_a church_n practice_v beside_o admonition_n and_o before_o they_o come_v to_o excommunication_n that_o which_o be_v call_v by_o divine_n abstentio_fw-la à _fw-la sacracaena_fw-la but_o you_o do_v not_o so_o but_o conceal_v this_o but_o brethren_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o practice_v this_o especial_o consider_v how_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o church_n be_v to_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n every_o lord_n day_n now_o suppose_v some_o member_n commit_v a_o great_a sin_n on_o the_o saturday_n which_o though_o come_n it_o be_v know_v to_o the_o minister_n or_o elder_n and_o some_o of_o the_o people_n either_o there_o may_v be_v no_o time_n to_o call_v the_o church_n to_o admonish_v the_o party_n or_o if_o there_o be_v for_o admonition_n yet_o not_o time_n sufficient_a for_o the_o party_n to_o testify_v repentance_n and_o yet_o the_o person_n may_v not_o be_v judge_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a as_o to_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o the_o person_n offend_v will_v come_v now_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n in_o the_o interim_n what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o further_o the_o reform_a church_n enjoin_v the_o censure_n of_o open_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o practice_v deposition_n of_o officer_n from_o their_o place_n which_o may_v just_o arise_v upon_o some_o case_n and_o yet_o not_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o proceed_v unto_o excommunication_n as_o yourselves_o practise_v in_o m._n ward_n case_n never_o proceed_v to_o give_v he_o up_o to_o satan_n but_o how_o 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practice_n what_o do_v you_o judge_v be_v it_o not_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n then_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n what_o if_o man_n practise_v polygamy_n profane_v the_o lord_n day_n by_o use_v it_o as_o they_o do_v any_o other_o day_n what_o if_o they_o do_v hold_v and_o according_o will_v have_v practise_v community_n of_o good_n among_o believer_n what_o if_o they_o maintain_v that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v magistrate_n all_o which_o be_v not_o condemn_v in_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n especial_o if_o some_o church_n may_v be_v take_v for_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v by_o your_o manner_n of_o expression_n you_o include_v such_o neither_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n but_o rather_o be_v practise_v upon_o new_a light_n and_o as_o new_a truth_n and_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o in_o 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to_o the_o scripture_n and_o judge_v so_o by_o orthodox_n church_n may_v escape_v excommunication_n and_o on_o the_o contrary_a many_o matter_n which_o according_a to_o scripture_n be_v neither_o sin_n nor_o error_n but_o only_o your_o church_n hold_v they_o so_o may_v have_v that_o dreadful_a sentenee_n pass_v upon_o they_o but_o if_o you_o mean_v it_o in_o the_o large_a sense_n for_o all_o kind_n of_o church_n and_o for_o the_o receive_v principle_n and_o practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v and_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o church_n then_o more_o sin_n and_o error_n so_o judge_v by_o the_o word_n by_o most_o church_n and_o by_o your_o own_o church_n too_o will_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v for_o such_o in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o shall_v escape_v that_o censure_n but_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v you_o mean_v only_o the_o reformed-churche_n common_o so_o call_v and_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n profess_v by_o they_o it_o can_v be_v so_o understand_v as_o be_v evident_a by_o your_o own_o expression_n in_o this_o passage_n about_o excommunication_n so_o that_o here_o be_v strange_a unsafe_a rule_n to_o go_v by_o in_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o new_a light_n and_o now_o truth_n of_o these_o time_n never_o yet_o give_v by_o any_o learned_a classical_a author_n how_o much_o better_o be_v it_o for_o church_n to_o make_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n such_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o scripture_n have_v make_v so_o and_o those_o sin_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o by_o common_a consent_n in_o assembly_n and_o synod_n so_o draw_v up_o for_o all_o to_o know_v they_o but_o if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o this_o may_v hinder_v further_a light_n and_o a_o after_o discovery_n i_o answer_v when_o any_o thing_n more_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v find_v out_o this_o need_n be_v no_o hindrance_n unto_o any_o light_n but_o by_o the_o public_a government_n and_o common_a consent_n upon_o good_a ground_n may_v be_v add_v but_o this_o your_o judgement_n about_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n i_o fear_v be_v calculate_v for_o the_o meridian_n of_o pretend_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n now_o this_o position_n of_o hold_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n to_o be_v only_o such_o sin_n and_o error_n as_o be_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n and_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v in_o all_o church_n and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o it_o tend_v much_o to_o the_o tolerate_n of_o sect_n and_o heresy_n which_o in_o this_o impure_a age_n be_v by_o many_o man_n and_o by_o too_o many_o of_o the_o church_n way_n so_o studious_o promote_v against_o the_o nature_n of_o reformation_n and_o true_a zeal_n but_o if_o one_o of_o the_o great_a end_n of_o excommunication_n be_v to_o preserve_v other_o from_o
difference_n what_o if_o the_o messenger_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o hear_v and_o examine_v differ_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o difference_n and_o offence_n in_o the_o church_n â—…ending_v and_o about_o the_o sentence_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o to_o be_v commend_v to_o the_o offend_a party_n yea_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n themselves_o upon_o return_n make_v by_o the_o messenger_n how_o they_o find_v matter_n differ_v also_o one_o of_o the_o church_n offend_v be_v of_o one_o mind_n and_o the_o other_o church_n offend_v of_o another_o mind_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o now_o for_o miscarriage_n what_o relief_n for_o a_o person_n injure_v or_o what_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n 13._o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n and_o in_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n â—…hat_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a what_o shall_v become_v of_o some_o innocent_a godly_a person_n in_o that_o church_n renounce_v and_o protest_v against_o must_v they_o be_v renounce_v communion_n with_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o the_o case_n where_o some_o in_o a_o church_n may_v be_v free_a from_o the_o error_n and_o evil_n which_o the_o great_a number_n be_v guilty_a of_o which_o you_o account_v the_o church_n must_v they_o be_v debar_v of_o all_o christian_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n offend_v and_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v to_o you_o speak_v nothing_o here_o in_o this_o case_n nor_o take_v no_o care_n for_o they_o but_o wrap_v up_o all_o alike_o in_o your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n must_v the_o innocent_a party_n now_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v separate_a and_o withdraw_v from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o renounce_v communion_n too_o as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n offend_v what_o if_o all_o their_o maintenance_n and_o livelihood_n depend_v in_o live_v in_o that_o place_n so_o that_o if_o they_o withdraw_v from_o they_o they_o must_v either_o live_v without_o public_a ordinance_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o if_o they_o come_v away_o ruin_n themselves_o and_o family_n what_o also_o if_o in_o this_o church_n offend_v the_o wife_n be_v one_o of_o the_o innocent_a person_n in_o that_o church_n but_o the_o husband_n of_o the_o number_n of_o they_o that_o persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n the_o son_n and_o daughter_n among_o the_o innocent_a the_o father_n and_o mother_n among_o the_o offender_n what_o must_v the_o wife_n and_o child_n renounce_v communion_n with_o their_o husband_n and_o parent_n and_o now_o either_o live_v without_o the_o ordinance_n there_o or_o else_o go_v away_o from_o their_o husband_n and_o pareâ—…ts_n to_o some_o other_o church_n 〈◊〉_d and_o in_o your_o draw_v up_o your_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n against_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n will_v you_o in_o the_o gross_a do_v it_o or_o will_v you_o signify_v and_o declare_v all_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o remain_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a in_o such_o church_n with_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o be_v free_a from_o those_o error_n and_o offence_n lest_o you_o shall_v bring_v all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n protest_v unto_o into_o sin_n and_o a_o snare_n pray_v resolve_v these_o case_n with_o many_o such_o which_o by_o these_o now_o hint_v you_o may_v foresee_v will_v fall_v out_o in_o your_o principle_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n three_o for_o the_o success_n and_o effectualnes_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o answer_v 1._o suppose_v the_o particular_a instance_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v to_o have_v have_v a_o good_a effect_n as_o you_o relate_v in_o your_o two_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o rottendam_fw-la yet_o it_o follow_v not_o it_o be_v a_o powerful_a and_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v church_n for_o a_o course_n may_v prevail_v in_o one_o and_o take_v with_o one_o and_o yet_o have_v no_o rationality_n to_o carry_v it_o in_o other_o for_o though_o this_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v submit_v to_o they_o of_o arnheim_n who_o be_v of_o note_n for_o part_n quality_n etc._n etc._n yet_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o these_o will_v to_o some_o other_o particular_a church_n who_o have_v challenge_v they_o and_o whether_o these_o man_n will_v also_o at_o all_o time_n have_v there_o not_o be_v something_o cast_v in_o the_o balance_n before_o hint_v 2._o take_v the_o best_a that_o come_v of_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n between_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n and_o that_o of_o rotterdam_n namely_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v acknowledge_v their_o offence_n in_o depose_v mr_n ward_n and_o restore_v he_o to_o his_o place_n again_o it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a satisfaction_n for_o the_o loss_n of_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n for_o so_o long_a a_o time_n and_o for_o all_o the_o suffering_n of_o he_o and_o his_o family_n if_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v be_v enjoin_v or_o have_v order_v themselves_o to_o have_v pay_v he_o the_o profit_n of_o his_o place_n or_o to_o have_v give_v he_o a_o good_a sum_n of_o money_n on_o their_o fast_a day_n this_o have_v be_v some_o relief_n for_o a_o wrongful_a sentence_n and_o a_o person_n injure_v thereby_o and_o may_v have_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o have_v preserve_v they_o from_o do_v the_o like_a for_o time_n to_o come_v but_o for_o a_o minister_n and_o his_o family_n to_o be_v so_o long_o in_o a_o sad_a condition_n without_o all_o maintenance_n in_o a_o strange_a land_n and_o in_o the_o issue_n for_o they_o who_o do_v this_o to_o acknowledge_v only_o their_o sinful_a aberration_n and_o the_o minister_n thus_o suffer_v to_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n too_o and_o both_o of_o they_o to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o alike_o here_o be_v a_o poor_a remedy_n â—…ay_o as_o you_o relate_v it_o yourselves_o it_o be_v very_o unjust_a and_o injurious_a for_o in_o some_o passage_n of_o your_o narration_n you_o acknowledge_v the_o fault_n on_o the_o church_n side_n as_o in_o page_n 16._o and_o in_o page_n â—…0_n and_o that_o mr_n ward_n be_v wrong_v and_o yet_o they_o be_v both_o equal_o order_v to_o a_o public_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o solemn_a fast_v the_o delinquent_n and_o the_o innocent_a alike_o deal_v with_o be_v this_o the_o fruit_n of_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o non-communion_n be_v this_o the_o real_a evidence_n and_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effectual_a success_n of_o such_o a_o course_n hold_v by_o church_n in_o such_o a_o case_n and_o be_v this_o the_o issue_n of_o all_o that_o send_v to_o and_o solemn_a assembly_n and_o the_o agitation_n of_o so_o many_o day_n public_a hear_n by_o deposition_n of_o witness_n so_o large_o and_o formal_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21_o i_o wonder_v wise_a man_n as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v shall_v not_o see_v into_o the_o weakness_n and_o folly_n of_o your_o own_o practice_n in_o this_o case_n but_o tell_v such_o a_o story_n so_o to_o shame_v yourselves_o you_o shall_v never_o have_v trouble_v yourselves_o to_o have_v come_v so_o many_o dutch_a mile_n not_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n nor_o make_v so_o great_a ado_n for_o many_o day_n of_o depose_v witness_n etc._n etc._n as_o yourselves_o relate_v in_o page_n 20_o 21._o to_o have_v put_v together_o the_o innocent_a and_o delinquent_n and_o let_v i_o here_o put_v you_o this_o dilemma_n either_o mr_n ward_n be_v unjust_o depose_v from_o his_o ministry_n both_o material_o and_o formal_o upon_o unsufficient_a cause_n as_o the_o matter_n for_o such_o a_o censure_n and_o for_o the_o way_n and_o manner_n of_o it_o as_o be_v too_o sudden_a before_o admonition_n and_o before_o fast_v and_o prayer_n precede_v etc._n etc._n 〈◊〉_d be_v just_o depose_v by_o the_o church_n if_o unjust_o in_o both_o these_o respect_n as_o your_o narration_n imply_v page_n 16._o why_o be_v mr._n ward_n put_v upon_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n to_o the_o church_n and_o put_v in_o the_o same_o condition_n with_o they_o who_o have_v deal_v so_o unjust_o both_o material_o and_o formal_o and_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o a_o mean_n to_o hinder_v the_o church_n repentance_n and_o humiliation_n for_o their_o sin_n when_o they_o shall_v be_v put_v but_o to_o do_v as_o mr_n ward_n but_o if_o mr_n ward_n be_v just_o dopose_v why_o be_v the_o church_n then_o put_v upon_o public_a acknowledgement_n and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o before_o god_n and_o man_n and_o whether_o be_v mr_n bridge_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n enjoin_v to_o confess_v his_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o in_o that_o he_o do_v not_o interpose_v his_o authority_n and_o interest_n in_o the_o church_n nor_o speak_v a_o
concern_v which_o question_n it_o be_v a_o point_n that_o i_o have_v not_o much_o study_v i_o shall_v not_o declare_v my_o judgement_n in_o it_o but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n it_o seem_v that_o in_o the_o thing_n of_o jehovah_n the_o last_o judgement_n do_v belong_v to_o the_o chief_a ecclesiastical_a assembly_n which_o sit_v at_o jerusalem_n deut._n 17._o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o verse_n as_o junius_n in_o his_o analisis_fw-la illustrate_v that_o place_n and_o the_o argument_n bring_v by_o apollonius_n in_o this_o point_n septimae_fw-la with_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la argument_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o strength_n in_o they_o and_o i_o entreat_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n if_o you_o will_v formal_o own_o the_o give_n of_o this_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n that_o you_o will_v answer_v that_o second_o chapter_n of_o apollonius_n but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o conclusion_n of_o the_o comparison_n of_o the_o effectualness_n between_o the_o two_o way_n suppose_v all_o you_o say_v of_o submission_n non-communion_n protestation_n be_v true_a as_o also_o that_o you_o do_v give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_a and_o that_o in_o spiritual_a matter_n in_o case_n of_o difference_n injury_n etc._n etc._n you_o will_v from_o the_o church_n have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o submit_v to_o his_o judgement_n and_o that_o you_o do_v allow_v and_o will_v stand_v to_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o they_o judge_v meet_v notwithstanding_o you_o have_v determine_v it_o that_o without_o all_o controversy_n your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o it_o fall_v far_o short_a of_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n both_o in_o prevent_v and_o remedy_v sin_n error_n offence_n and_o in_o promote_a knowledge_n godliness_n and_o peace_n in_o the_o church_n for_o suppose_v non-communion_n of_o church_n be_v a_o way_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o remedy_n the_o contrary_a to_o which_o i_o have_v at_o large_a show_v yet_o you_o must_v confess_v it_o be_v but_o a_o low_a remedy_n not_o a_o authoritative_a powererfull_a dreadful_a remedy_n and_o mean_n like_o that_o of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v the_o high_a and_o great_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n the_o church_n thunderbolt_n and_o anathema_n a_o remedy_n and_o last_v mean_n which_o recover_v a_o sinner_n when_o all_o other_o will_v not_o as_o admonition_n suspension_n deposition_n and_o so_o when_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n will_v not_o in_o the_o scripture_n be_v lay_v down_o many_o eminent_a fruit_n and_o effect_n of_o excommunication_n in_o the_o people_n of_o god_n which_o be_v not_o of_o any_o censure_n else_o and_o i_o may_v fill_v a_o book_n with_o the_o end_n benefit_n and_o fruit_n of_o this_o censure_n lay_v down_o by_o divine_n in_o their_o tractate_v and_o common_a place_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o excommunication_n but_o i_o will_v name_v only_o that_o of_o the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n 59_o excommunication_n be_v the_o last_o remedy_n and_o the_o sharp_a for_o the_o subdue_a of_o the_o flesh_n in_o a_o man_n and_o for_o the_o quicken_a of_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o most_o efficacious_a example_n lest_o the_o sound_a part_n shall_v be_v corrupt_v but_o against_o they_o who_o persevere_v in_o their_o contumacy_n and_o impenitency_n it_o be_v the_o only_a mean_n to_o free_v the_o house_n of_o god_n of_o leaven_n and_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n from_o scandal_n and_o so_o to_o vindicate_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n from_o profanation_n and_o the_o name_n of_o god_n from_o the_o blaspheme_n of_o they_o without_o now_o pray_v show_v we_o in_o the_o scripture_n any_o where_o the_o excellent_a fruit_n benefit_n end_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n against_o they_o as_o we_o can_v of_o excommunication_n in_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 5._o 2_o cor._n 2._o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o 2_o thess._n 3._o 14._o 1_o tim._n 1._o 20._o and_o then_o for_o that_o other_o remedy_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n add_v to_o non-communion_n to_o eke_o out_o wherein_o non-communion_n may_v be_v defective_a to_o excommunication_n and_o for_o that_o purpose_n you_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o so_o what_o you_o fail_v and_o come_v short_a in_o ecclesiastical_a power_n you_o may_v make_v it_o up_o in_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n the_o result_n of_o which_o must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o though_o in_o your_o churchway_n you_o have_v not_o so_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n for_o miscarriage_n and_o for_o reduce_v church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n and_o schism_n yet_o you_o give_v more_o civil_a power_n and_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n more_o to_o interpose_v for_o help_v and_o reduce_v so_o that_o less_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o authority_n with_o a_o large_a civil_a power_n to_o back_o it_o will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o much_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n with_o a_o small_a civil_a power_n but_o of_o this_o i_o shall_v show_v you_o your_o mistake_n because_o the_o question_n be_v of_o church_n matter_n and_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n and_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n now_o the_o remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o these_o be_v spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a namely_o spiritual_a punishment_n christ_n say_v my_o kingdom_n be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n and_o the_o apostle_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 3_o 4_o 5._o the_o weapon_n of_o our_o warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a but_o mighty_a through_o god_n to_o the_o pull_v down_o of_o strong_a hold_n by_o which_o the_o spirit_n and_o the_o inward_a man_n even_o every_o thought_n be_v subject_v to_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n must_v be_v use_v in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o they_o christ_n do_v his_o work_n and_o hence_o in_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o those_o scandal_n in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n punishment_n in_o the_o body_n or_o in_o the_o purse_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v be_v by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o place_n at_o all_o sanctificata_fw-la neither_o can_v such_o mean_n which_o be_v of_o a_o different_a kind_n from_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n produce_v those_o effect_n which_o belong_v 10â—…_n to_o that_o heavenly_a kingdom_n it_o be_v out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o the_o activity_n of_o the_o political_a magistrate_n to_o subdue_v the_o inward_a man_n or_o to_o inflict_v spiritual_a punishment_n upon_o the_o conscience_n and_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o common_a in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o most_o learned_a and_o orthodox_n divine_v then_o to_o show_v that_o the_o civil_a power_n and_o government_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o ecclesiastical_a government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v toto_fw-la genere_fw-la disjoin_v and_o thereupon_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o deal_v with_o the_o corrupt_a manner_n and_o disorder_n of_o his_o people_n be_v in_o the_o nature_n and_o specifical_a reason_n distinct_a from_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n by_o which_o he_o punish_v sin_n do_v not_o subserve_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n the_o mediator_n that_o he_o may_v apply_v efficacious_o to_o the_o elect_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o priestly_a office_n of_o christ_n he_o do_v not_o affect_v the_o inward_a man_n and_o conscience_n with_o spiritual_a punishment_n neither_o be_v this_o institute_v of_o god_n and_o sanctify_a as_o the_o mean_n for_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o flesh_n that_o the_o spirit_n may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ._n hence_o also_o by_o divine_n the_o manifold_a difference_n between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v observe_v eccl._n zanchius_n do_v accurate_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o they_o the_o cause_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o the_o punishment_n of_o sin_n but_o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o sinner_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n but_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n be_v that_o he_o shall_v punish_v the_o sin_n itself_o neither_o dâ—…th_n it_o look_v to_o the_o salvation_n or_o damnation_n of_o the_o offender_n whereupon_o although_o the_o sinner_n repent_v yet_o he_o do_v not_o spare_v but_o punish_v according_a to_o his_o office_n but_o the_o church_n according_a to_o christ_n doctrine_n do_v not_o strike_v with_o the_o spiritual_a sword_n unless_o he_o be_v impenitent_a neither_o be_v this_o do_v for_o death_n but_o for_o salvation_n
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
have_v gather_v about_o we_o or_o be_v rather_o cast_v upon_o our_o person_n in_o our_o absence_n begin_v by_o our_o presence_n again_o and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o in_o a_o great_a measure_n to_o scatter_v and_o vanish_v without_o speak_v a_o word_n for_o ourselves_o and_o cause_n and_o now_o if_o upon_o your_o presence_n only_o and_o that_o without_o speak_v a_o word_n they_o vanish_v and_o be_v scatter_v how_o do_v they_o then_o vanish_v upon_o speak_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o cloud_n of_o mistake_n etc._n etc._n so_o easy_o blow_v away_o by_o your_o breath_n nay_o without_o your_o breath_n be_v so_o great_a a_o affliction_n to_o you_o certain_o you_o be_v man_n very_o tender_a of_o any_o mistake_n misapprehension_n or_o reproach_n upon_o you_o but_o i_o think_v it_o may_v be_v salve_v by_o your_o comparison_n as_o great_a to_o we_o as_o our_o former_a trouble_n and_o banishment_n both_o much_o alike_o great_a that_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o but_o what_o mean_v you_o by_o that_o parenthesis_n wherein_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o differ_v do_v but_o your_o opinion_n seem_v to_o differ_v from_o we_o and_o do_v they_o not_o real_o why_o then_o have_v you_o and_o do_v you_o make_v all_o this_o ado_n in_o our_o church_n as_o for_o your_o opinion_n and_o way_n environ_v with_o mistake_n and_o misapprehension_n i_o know_v nothing_o for_o my_o part_n have_v be_v fasten_v upon_o your_o way_n but_o what_o have_v be_v find_v in_o letter_n manuscript_n your_o know_a practice_n and_o in_o print_a book_n of_o new-england_n and_o in_o the_o discourse_n of_o your_o own_o member_n and_o familiar_n but_o if_o some_o man_n who_o have_v not_o study_v the_o point_n nor_o give_v themselves_o to_o understand_v your_o way_n do_v mistake_v and_o misapprehend_v you_o that_o be_v your_o own_o fault_n that_o walk_v so_o in_o the_o dark_a and_o have_v be_v so_o often_o desire_v to_o give_v a_o narrative_a of_o what_o you_o hold_v in_o difference_n never_o yet_o will_v as_o for_o the_o calumny_n east_n upon_o you_o of_o schism_n independency_n and_o brownism_n with_o the_o reason_n insert_v to_o vindicate_v yourselves_o from_o they_o i_o shall_v first_o give_v a_o general_a answer_n to_o they_o together_o and_o then_o to_o each_o of_o they_o apart_o 1._o in_o general_n how_o ever_o you_o do_v in_o word_n wash_v your_o hand_n of_o these_o imputation_n and_o wipe_v your_o mouth_n confident_o deny_v they_o yet_o all_o the_o water_n in_o the_o thames_n will_v not_o wash_v you_o from_o all_o just_a imputation_n of_o these_o it_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n for_o man_n who_o go_v in_o bye_o way_n and_o maintain_v error_n whether_o more_o fundamental_a or_o superstructory_n to_o abominate_a the_o name_n and_o title_n give_v to_o those_o opinion_n whether_o from_o the_o author_n who_o first_o broach_v they_o or_o from_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o and_o to_o deny_v the_o opinion_n and_o point_n charge_v upon_o they_o by_o find_v out_o some_o distinction_n or_o doubtful_a word_n and_o expression_n to_o cloud_v they_o with_o in_o which_o sense_n they_o wrap_v up_o themselves_o and_o deceive_v many_o and_o so_o give_v other_o name_n i_o may_v fill_v up_o a_o book_n in_o give_v instance_n out_o of_o ancient_a and_o modern_a writer_n of_o this_o artifice_n those_o who_o be_v common_o call_v saracen_n their_o name_n be_v haggarens_n as_o come_v of_o hagak_n but_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o call_v but_o name_n themselves_o saracen_n son_n of_o the_o freewoman_n the_o schwenefeldians_n call_v by_o luther_n philip_n melancton_n and_o other_o famous_a divine_n stenckfeldian_n from_o â—…elp_v the_o ill_a savour_n of_o their_o opinion_n yet_o schuvenckfeldius_fw-la entitle_v they_o with_o that_o glorious_a name_n the_o confessor_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o christ._n the_o antinomian_o will_v not_o endure_v to_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n but_o style_v themselves_o the_o hearer_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o of_o freegrace_n the_o old_a separatist_n can_v not_o endure_v to_o be_v call_v brownist_n or_o barrowist_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o title_n of_o mr_n robinson_n apologie_n so_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o title_n of_o schism_n separation_n independency_n but_o you_o call_v it_o the_o congregationall_a government_n and_o the_o church_n way_n and_o a_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n but_o by_o no_o mean_n independent_a government_n that_o will_v not_o be_v endure_v as_o no_o sin_n will_v be_v call_v willing_o by_o its_o own_o name_n but_o take_v other_o name_n drunkenness_n will_v be_v call_v good_a fellowship_n covetousness_n good_a husbandry_n and_o providence_n so_o few_o error_n will_v be_v call_v after_o the_o name_n of_o the_o first_o father_n or_o the_o matter_n simple_o they_o hold_v and_o i_o can_v give_v you_o many_o reason_n of_o this_o among_o other_o take_v these_o 1._o many_o be_v possess_v by_o book_n and_o argument_n against_o such_o and_o such_o error_n under_o such_o name_n and_o title_n now_o that_o erroneous_a man_n may_v avoid_v all_o the_o dint_n of_o the_o argument_n and_o the_o impression_n such_o name_n and_o term_n have_v leave_v upon_o many_o they_o disclaim_v the_o old_a and_o invent_v new_a word_n and_o phrase_n against_o which_o the_o people_n have_v not_o be_v possess_v the_o better_a to_o take_v they_o 2._o erroneous_a spirit_n will_v have_v nothing_o fix_v or_o certain_a to_o be_v fasten_v on_o they_o upon_o which_o able_a man_n may_v bring_v argument_n and_o reason_n against_o they_o but_o the_o reader_n shall_v see_v all_o this_o will_v not_o help_v you_o but_o that_o the_o just_a charge_n of_o these_o must_v lie_v upon_o you_o 2._o to_o answer_v particular_o you_o be_v just_o charge_v of_o schism_n and_o separation_n and_o if_o you_o consult_v with_o the_o scripture_n and_o author_n both_o ancient_a and_o modern_a austin_n calvin_n zanchius_n morneus_fw-la peter_n martyr_n junius_n perkins_n parker_n and_o see_v what_o 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occasion_n for_o draw_v up_o such_o answer_n to_o it_o and_o you_o can_v blame_v none_o but_o yourselves_o as_o will_v upon_o necessity_n discover_v and_o lay_v open_a both_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o opinion_n more_o than_o ever_o else_o there_o will_v have_v be_v any_o pretence_n of_o ground_n to_o have_v do_v it_o as_o for_o refer_v the_o vindication_n of_o your_o person_n to_o god_n and_o a_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o by_o man_n i_o answer_v that_o without_o great_a repentance_n for_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n and_o some_o other_o practice_n since_o your_o return_n into_o england_n in_o stead_n of_o god_n vindicate_v your_o person_n you_o can_v but_o expect_v god_n will_v visit_v you_o and_o whether_o hereafter_o man_n may_v have_v occasion_n to_o vindicate_v you_o upon_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o i_o refer_v that_o to_o time_n but_o for_o the_o experience_n they_o have_v have_v of_o you_o this_o parliament_n before_o the_o write_n of_o this_o apology_n 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