that brought it Harry the Portar Idem de eodem VVHen Chance came in he seem'd to bring a prize Nick look'd and found a fardle full of Lies And when he tooke it Chance did wag his tayle Praesaging that the Groome should Iabal quaile When Dogs bring popish Libels tween their gills T is time for Groomes to exercise their quills THE CONTENTS of the seuerall Chapters of this Booke CHAP. 1. Pag. 1. THe Libellers malice fraud and folly detected CHAP. 2. Pag. 71. The Machabees vnthronized CHAP. 3. Pag. 103. Purgatories deduction Logically and Theologically disprooued CHAP. 4. Pag. 150. The Scriptures authority and sufficiency warranted against Praier for the dead and other Romish traditions CHAP. 5. Pag. 206. Lipsian Miracles morterized CHAP. 6. Pag. 246. Great Gregories proud Delegate dismounted and popish pretended deuotion vncased Dialogue Betweene the Maior of Queenboroughe Minister of Queenboroughe NICK Groome of Queenboroughe Iabal Rachil Libeller A CVRRY-COMBE for a Cox-combe CHAP. I. The Libellers malice pride fraud and folly detected Ma. WHat honest Nick Welcome into Sheppy How fares the noble Knight and all the true Trojans at home Nick. I thanke God Sir all well My Master remembers his loue to your Worship to you Master Vicar and to all his friends in these parts Min. We are much bound to him for his kinde remembrance but I wonder what winde driues you hither we may strew greene rushes for you I thinke you were neuer heere since Master Maior tooke his oath Nick. Sir you are in the right but such troublesome guests come soone enough like foule weather before they be sent for Ma. Nay say not so Nick the worst dogge in your masters house cannot come vnwelcome to Queenborough Nick. That 's more of your kindnesse then our merit but I pray you what 's the reason the bowling greene is so emptie vpon so faire a day Min. Why man there is a great Faire at Sittingburne thither they are all gone tag rag and long-taile Nick. Then I feare I am come at an ill time Ma. Why so Nick. My master hath sent me for the pyde nagge hee would haue him runne in Iames parke lest hee spoile himselfe this drie season besides I haue appointed the Smith to bee heere in the afternoone Now if the Castle-keeper bee gone to buy Hobby-horses too I am in a faire case Min. To put you out of doubt vpon my knowledge he is ridde out more then an houre and a halfe since Nick. Then it is likely to be darke night before he finde the way home Ma. Assure your selfe of that it is a forfeit for a Sheppy-man to come from a Faire till Sunne set Nick. See the ill lucke and the worst is I know not how to spend the time all this liue-long day Ma As if I haue not a good dish of Oysters and a cold pye at home to hold you tacke Nick. Many thankes good Master Maior but in very deed I brake my fast so well with our old Gardiner at Vpberry before I came out that I shall haue little mawe to any meate till night Min. Then what will you doe Nick. On my little honestie I know not vnlesse some good bodie would lende mee a Play-booke to make my worship laugh Ma. Faith Nick I doe not remember any such in my custodie but our Searcher lent me a merry book which came to his hands the last weeke Min. Sir you meane that squibbing pamphlet against Sir Edward Hoby which I borrowed of you yesterday morning Ma. The very same I would you would take the paines to fetch it Min. That labour shall be saued we neuer parted companies since we met Nick. Now if you bee kinde gentlemen let vs sit downe yonder vpon a Secretum silentium magis disputationibus conuenit ne sermo interpâ—llâ—tur a tanta vltro citroque cuntâ—um hominum frequentâ—â— sirepitu Pennylesse Bench and suruey it Ma. Agreed for I thinke wee shall haue no bodie in hast come to trouble vs. Nick. What may the title of the booke bee and who is the Author Min. He may be Nicholas nemo for ought I know he discouers himselfe only by the marke of b Conscia splendâ—ntâ—in formidat noctua solem I. R. Nick. I dare lay a good wager it is that Ishmael Rabshacheh whom my Master so hampred in his CouÌ„ter-snarle my minde giues me it is the same Gurgullio whose late arriuall makes him so much merriment Min. Not vnlike hee hath wonne the spurres for an arch-rayler The most rauing and brauing Paf-quil that euer I read Had he gotten any prize by his last worke you should haue now seene him out of his maskers sute he stands close behinde his picture if it passe currant he will then peepe out otherwise he will hide his head in a Bench-hole Ma. But is this the fashion of professed c Illi saciem velant qui se pudenda dicere cognoscunt fatentur se non dicenda dicere Laur. Val. de volupt lib. 3. Diuines to broach Positions which they dare not justifie with the subscription of their names and being namelesse themselues to perbreake persons of note Nick. Doe you wonder at that As if old purse-takers will present themselues in their owne likenes without vizards and scarfes Ma. Indeede that were the next way to the Gallowes but surely this kinde of cunning ioyned with so great scurrility which in my little view I discouered would make me shrewdly suspect their d Non sic Phidias qui clypeo Mineruae imaginem suam insculpsit sinceritie who are so intemperate in their owne affections and regardlesse of better mens credits Min. This is the Catholike charitie and soule-gaining patience practised now adayes but he is not without his shifts That he concealeth his name it is his e Page 26. humilitie as regardlesse of worldly respects That hee is so tarte it proceedeth from his zeale of the cause not any hatred of the person Ma. In my opinion he needs not feare any great applause for the extraordinary skil of his work T' is well if he scape in this learned age without reproof· But to make zeale the Patron for his f A trimme Minion one of a merry scoffing wit Frier-like Steph. Winton against G. Ioy. page 2. personall trumps is intollerable hypocrisie Min. Could he shew any such sparkes of personall disdaine flying from Saint Augustines penne there were yet some little hope that hee hath at least a dramme of that Primitiue Spirit but you shall heare how he contradicts himselfe g Preface Dedicatorie Saint Augustine saith he did endeauour to curbe the motions of anger seeking to ouercome his Aduersaries not by returne of iniurious reproaches to disgrace their persons but by cleare Demonstrations of the victorious truth Ma. Then is hee as like Saint Augustine as an Owle to an Iuie bush Nick. And could hee single out no body but my Master to make the Anuill of his malice I doubt hee hath
patronized k Pag. 180. Barbarity downe on thy marrow-bones prostrate thy selfe at the foote of this thy valorous Champion borne in l Pag. 171. Margent Brinitania who hath stretched his fiue wits on the Tenter-hooks to maintaine thy worth T is great pitty that this lusty Iuuentus came so raw from the ferula had he continued a little longer at School by this time he would haue made the Welkin roare Ma. I know not how other men stand affected for my owne part I haue euer held that Fidler worthy to bee turned out of doores among the rascall company though he haue a badge on his sleeue as broad as my hand who still harpes vpon one string and dwells vpon one tune be it the best horne-pipe that euer Lincoln-shire affoorded Doth not one harsh bleating voice disgrace a whole quire Doth not one vnsauory hearb giue a relish to the whole pot of pottage A discord I grant may be admitted with some grace but not continued without some intollerable disgust In a word if one flye mar a boxe of sweetest ointment I cannot see what credit this multiplicity of Spiders Cobwebs Flyes can bring to Iabals booke Nick. I hope we shall find better stuffe in the rest how doth he shake off the flyes they sticke I feare so close to his skin maugre his m Pag. 11. Neapolitan perfume that they will hardly out of the bone Min. He n Pag. 15. blusters mainly that the Knight shold crie Fie vpon his genericall and accidentall Christning of Bells relatiue honour of Images and metaphoricall diuision of the Kingdome betweene God and the Virgin Ma. Is he so impudent as to stand in the defence of these vncouth and ridiculous fopperies which can shew no other pedegree but heathenish folly and Idolatrous superstition to countenance them from exploding contempt Min. As touching the first practise he doth not say that Bells are o Pag. 15. Formula baptizandi campanas apud Durand de Rit lib. 1. ca. 22. Christned but that the Blessing of bells hath some genericall similitude with the Christning of a Child Ma. Whether it be a similitude or an p Tantundem dat tantidem Identity I am not so cunning a Logician to distinguish It skils not much how they please to tear me it who are driuen to their shifts in seeking some colourable mantle to shroud it from the inglorious note of heathenish bastardy The question is quo iure what warrant he hath for this genericall similitude which he confesseth betweene the Blessing of Bells and the Christning of a Child Min. Nay there he leaues you to your own search If you can neither find Scripture Father nor ancient Councell to warrant this practise hee meanes not to be your Informer It sufficeth him beeing betweene Hawke and Buzzard to turne it ouer with a witlesse and vnciuill iest which he deuideth betweene his old familiars the q Pag. 15. Buzzard and the Asse Nick. I haue heard some say there was once much adoe about the r Eras Adag shadow of an Asse but there beeing store of that breed at Doway Iabal is now growne so nice that he will not be seene vpon the backe of his olde animal wherefore the poore wearied Asse is faine to ride him Ma. T is pitty they should part companies yet did I neuer see man more troubled with the mare in his sleepe then Rachil is at mid-day with the Asse of whom he grones to be disburdened Faine would he haue the Å¿ Pag. 16. Printer beare part of his luggage but seeing it is now more then a yeere and a day since the Lazi-as was found as a stray and cryed in open Mart by Rabshakeh the custome of the Mannor secundum vsum Sarum makes it his owne without cutting off either mane or t Pag. 47. tayle Min. My masters I am glad to see your wits so frolicke yet I must needes say it is but Lex talionis besides his reasoning approoues more then you say For admit a Venetian Pander should put on the Popes robes his Triple Crowne his slipper come with S. Peters keyes sit downe in the Conclaue on the Chayre appropriated to his Holinesse and that he should in his passage be saluted by the Vulgar as Pope bearing those ensignes with which that Deity alone is dignified Should he not be sure to be called Coram and pay deare for this his genericall and accidentall resemblance Will it serue his turne to say Alas no man heard mee say that I was Paulus Quintus I did but weare his vestiments and a little counterfeit his state Nick. I will giue him my word hee shall finde it better to play the Deuill then so to immitate the Pope Ma. The case is of the same nature The blessing of Bells is no lesse presumptuously accompanied with the sacred rites and ceremonies of Baptisme yea with greater solemnities then the Christning of Children so that the Laye people know not how to distinguish them Now marke how Iabal playes the Pandar he doth not say that u Pag. 15. Bells are Christned onely this The blessing of Bells hath some generall resemblance with Christning Neither is the Venetian Pandar Pope though habited like the Pope Shall he not be sure to haue this peale or the like rung in his eares by one * Eunâ—ch Act. 3 Scen. 5. Antipho or other Quo pergis ganeo vnde emergis vestitum hunc nactus quid tibi quaeris Satin ' sanus quid sibi hic vestitus quaerit I haue so charitable an opinion of Rachil that his reuerent respect to the Primate of the Romish Sea would make him say Fye vpon such a Pope Yet see how blind deuotion ouer-swaies th'equity of his iudgement in the like hee quarrells with the Knight for saying Fye vpon your genericall and accidentall Christening of Bells Nick. Sets hee no better glosse vpon his relatiue honour of Images Min. He begs the question and wonders any man should be so x Pag. 16. dull not to vnderstand that which euen children conceiue that honour done to the Image is no iniury to the person or that a Christian will deny to Christ in his Image what any honourable person may challenge to his y Pag. 17. You saith hee that crye fie vpon the relatiue honour of our Sauiour in his Crosse how would you haue snarled at the noble Ladies of the Primitiue Church that did licke with their religious tongues the dust of that thrice Venerable Relique z Pag. 18. O glorious cause which by such Epicureans is impugned who worship Bacchus or Cupid in their Chambers Nick. In their Chambers T is well he hath gotten the ground of Imaginary chamber-Chamber-worke to support the glory of his superstitious Church-work Ma. It would make any pious breast bleede to recount those infinite and strange pollutions wherewith their religious houses haue beene as appeareth vpon authentique Records monstrously infected I hope our chambers compared with their
Monasteries are as Chappell 's paralell'd with impure Styes Nick. Sir it is our happines that he can challenge vs onely with the a Pag. 16 17 Pulchra puella placet displicet vmbra tibi pictures of faire Ladies Had not their Chambers housed the liuing creatures themselues I doubt whether he should haue had so great cause to bragge as he doth of the b Pag. 195. 183. workes of deuotion There was a Benefactor called Satisfactory Pennance who builded more Hospitalls c. then all the Voluntaries besides Ma. Yet put them all together we are able to instance as many charitable c Willet his catalogue of charitable workes workes done in England within these 60. yeares as I thinke were seene in many more before especially if you compare the prizes and rates with those of former and lesse peopled times Min. Let not his taunts make vs lose the conclusion Our Relatiue loue of senceles pictures which he causelesly feareth cannot patronize the Relatiue honour of Images d Non fas est Christianum per oculos suspensum teneri sed per occupationem mentis he Idolatrously practiseth and illiterately defendeth For if hee challenge no more honour for his Images then noble persons to their pictures as he pretends we will passe his suite as a motion sauouring of equity but it is more then either a ciuill reuerence or an historical remembrance for which hee laboureth wherein his instance of the Matron Paula will not succour him e Hieron Epitaph Paulae ad Eustochiam Virg. Shee lying prostrate before the crosse kissed as S. Hierome saith the stone of the Sepulcher which the Angell remooued yea she licked the place where the Lord had lyen Ma. This I thinke is not to be disallowed in the kissing of those sacred Reliques shee gaue testimony of her holy zeale faith and loue to Christ But did shee deeme them as Instruments by the touch whereof shee expected any effusion or influence of grace Min. Iabal would â—aine wrest it to his purpose by mistranslation She did vse saith he to lye prostrate before the Crosse therein with a liuely faith adoring Christ whereas Hieromes wordes runne thus Prostrating her selfe before the Crosse she did adore as if she had seene the Lord hanging thereon Hierome saith not shee vsed to lye prostrate before the crosse but that now beeing come to Hierusalem where shee met with the reall Crosse she prostrated her selfe and how before it not vnto it Neither doth hee say that therein shee adored Christ there Iabal is out but Prostrating her selfe before the Crosse of Christ she did adore as if she had seene the Lord hanging thereon that is shee fixed her remembrance vpon Christ crucified whom only shee did adore So that this being not the Image of the Crosse but the Crosse it selfe concludes not that honor of Images which the f Non sunt duae adorationes sed vna Concil Nicen 2. Act. 4. Romanists maintaine who doctrinally auerre that the Image and the patterne of the Image ought to bee honoured with one and the same honour of g Bellar. de cult Imag. Latria making the Image partaker of Diuine worship at the least accidentally whereas Diuine worship is in no part or semblance appliable to any but to a Diuine Essence Ma. In my conceipt Iabal is desirous to picke a quarrell with the Knight who doth not condemne all relatiue Adoration which his owne Church practiseth in the receiuing of the Communion where we doe diuinely remember and adore Christ as dying vpon the Crosse that being vnto vs a sacred remembrance of his death vntill his comming but he layeth the Fye vpon that Relatiue honour wherein the dumbe creature is made more then a demi-god and honoured with Vowes and Supplications as if one and the same Saint could be present in all places where his pictures are worshipped to take notice of those particular homages which whilest he was liuing vpon the earth he would neuer haue permitted to be done to his owne person These Praiers and Offerings neither did Paula practise neither had the Knight reason to allow Besides we must beg leaue to put a difference betweene an historicall relation and a determinatiue position th' one being de facto the other de iure Min. To take Iabal in his right sence I mean his Antemeridian I would faine know whether the Pagans that worshipped the Images of the heathen Gods did not worship them by a h Non materias veneramur non ipsá simulachra sed eos in his colimus quos dedicatio infert sacra Haec ratio à Paganis quoque adferri solebat Cassan Consul Art 21. pag. 153. relatiue adoration Ma. Nay vnder your correction I haue reade in Strabo and Herodotus that the Persians did neyther reare Statues nor Altars to their Gods The i Alex. ab Alex lib. 2. c. 22. Aegyptians did scoffe at their folly who represented their Gods by Images Lycurgus though otherwise very ceremonious did vtterly disallow that the glorious feature of the immortall Gods should bee counterfeited by any mortall shapes Yea I haue heard a good Diuine alleage S. k Lib. de ciuit dei â— c. 31. ex Varrone Augustines authority that the ancient Romanes for 170. yeares did worshippe their Gods without any Image Min. I graunt there was a time when Images were not at all at least not so vniuersall they that were the first founders of them l Aug. ibid. Ciuitatibus suis metum dempserunt et errorem addiderunt which made those of the deepest reach positiuely forbid them Ne Deorum maiestas simulachrorum stoliditate contemnerentur least the maiesty of the Gods might grow into contempt through the foolish inuentions and base mettall or matter wherein they were represented But I speake of those nations and those times wherein Images were in most request Nick. Either I heard a lye or else there was a Philosopher who hauing in his house a wooden Image of Hercules did so highly esteeme it that when fiering grew very scarce hee first cleft it and then laide it along vnder the pot saying m Epiphan in Ancorato de Diagora Now Hercules thy labors shall amount to a full Bakers dozen thy â—centh labour shall bee to seeth a Calfes head for my dinner This was the relatiue honour wherewith hee honoured his Idoll Ma. I can tell you as pretty a Tale as that there haue not beene yet three moones since a dainty collapsed creature sold a very faire Crucifixe to buy her selfe a Fanne and being reproued by a double-chind Mastix her best answer was this that shee meant to haue another engrauen vpon the handle in stead of her Armes which should still be in her sight Min. I will not say shee made a more vsefull exchange for such pictures may well serue as historicall monuments by way of representation But their admired n Lib. 9. Epist 9 Indict 4. Gregory absolutely excludes them from all
opposition if any stands not in the degree but rather beareth the sence of a preuention For as much as the Iewes from whom the old sacred records were originally deriued would not enter them into the Diuine Canon it could not but occasion many considerate Christians vtterly to cashere them For the auoiding heereof S. Augustine seeing they might tend to some good vse tells vs that albeit the Iewes did not receiue them as Canonicall yet the Church receiued them not vnprofitably if they bee read soberly He saith not that the Church receiued them into higher authority then the Iewes but as books which might serue to as good purpose if they were read warily amongst vs as they did among the Iewes Neither doth hee say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum as implying an vndeniable necessity but recepta est non mutiliter as noting a voluntary acceptance vpon a probable end with th' addition of this Prouiso if they be read soberly which howsoeuer you otherwise deeme cannot be fitly spoken of Canonicall writ which is necessarily to be embraced and is alwaies profitable to the Church which euermore bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof neither is it any lesse behoofull to the Church though it be peruerted by reprobates to their owne damnation But as for humane writings the case is otherwise they are then onely receiued profitably by the Church when they are read warily A good man by attributing too much to an vnwarrantable ground of which sort the sacred writ affoordeth none may make a faulty inference which mooued Saint Augustine to insinuate that there are rocks by which he would haue vs warily to saile Nick. What if wee admit for disputation sake that S. Augustine deliuereth this as his resolute opinion in Iabals sence I would gladly learne what reason hee can yeeld why this should ouer-sway the ioynt iudgement and consent of so many far more ancient Fathers who teach the contrary Iab i Pag. 59. Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquity how can hee then be excused from great temerity if heerein he erred Ma. Errare humanum est The spirit of God alone is free from errour The k It was lawful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them Guido de Haeres c. 7. Church euen in his daies was somewhat clowded with the mists of superstition Had he not an Eagles eye he could hardly haue discouered those beames which Antichrist had then laid in the way It was hard if not impossible for one man to discerne euery mote which then houered in the aire of the Papall regiment Iab l Pag. 60. This sentence may suffice alone to giue any Iudicious eare to vnderstand your opposition with S. Augustine Ma. Wee honour his memory as a blessed Saint from whose pen the Church of God hath receiued ineffable good and wee account it not the least part of our happinesse that for one seeming testimony which you wrest to serue your owne turne wee are able to shew a million to right our cause Iab Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholique doctrine concerning the point of Merit m Pag. 62. Doth he not say that as the wages due to sinne is death so the wages due to righteousnesse is life eternall And againe The reward cannot go before merits nor bee giuen before a man be worthy thereof yea that God should be vniust if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome Can any Catholique speak more plainly then he doth of Merits Min. These places doe not any whit crosse our doctrine against merit The Analogy which he makes betweene Sinne and Death Righteousnesse and life consisteth not in the quality of Desert but of the n Deest gratiae quiâ— quid meritis deputas Nolo meritum quod gratiam excludit Bâ—â—n super Caen. Ser. 67. effect Augustine saith not that the wages of righteousnesse which is Heauen is as due as the wages of sinne which is death th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect to signifie that heauen the wages which is due to righteousnesse shall as truly bee bestowed vpon the faithfull as Hell or Death shall bee inflicted vpon the wicked For if wee consider th'equality of desert and condignity there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine a threefold disproportion One in respect of the Rewarder whose rewarding of sinne with eternall torment is the proper act of Iustice in it selfe Whereas his rewarding of Righteousnesse vpon them whom he hath accepted vnto Grace is only the Iustice of his mercifull o In illis opera saa glorificant In â—â—les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1. promise Secondly in respect of the Subiect for the Sinne which a wicked man committeth is properly his owne but the righteousnesse of the Regenerate is the gift p Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata sed à Deo donata Fulg. ibidem of God so that the reward of death is more properly due to sinne then is the reward of life vnto righteousnesse Thirdly in regard of the obiect because the sinne of the wicked is perfectly imperfect but the righteousnes of the most godly is imperfectly perfect that is but a stained goodnesse wherefore there cannot be an equall condignity in both Ma. We grant that the reward cannot goe before merites nor bee giuen before a man bee worthy thereof but Iabal must learne that these merits are q Mors eius meritum meum Aug. in Manual c. 22. Christs by the Imputation whereof we that are altogether vnworthy of our selues are made through Gods gracious acceptance of his sonnes obedience worthy of this reward Otherwise Non sunt condignae passiones our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall bee reuealed to the sonnes of God r Ephes 2. v. 8. Gratia enim saluatis estis saith the Apostle For you are saued by Grace through Faith and that not of your selues Min. Fulgentius makes the case plaine in this golden sentence Å¿ De praedest 〈◊〉 Montâ—tum lib. 1 Vnus Deus est qui gratis et vocat praedestinatos et iustificat vocatos et glorificat iustificatos and againe t Ibid. Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit iustos sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosos u Aug. in Psal 83. Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit saith S. Augustine non accipiendo sed promittendo non ei dicitur Redde quod accepisli sed quod promisisti God hath made himselfe a Debtor not by receauing any thing from vs but by the passing of his promise vnto vs wee say not to him Render that thou hast receiued but giue that which thou hast promised And the same x Tract 3. in Iohan Father Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeternam sed pro gratia Thou shalt not receiue life eternall for merit but for grace Nick.
How thinke you now of S. Augustines opinion touching merit were you not vtterly deuoid of all shame you would neuer haue cited him in this cause wherein you finde him wholly averse You were better scanne my Masters Letter and let S. Augustine alone Iab How y Pag. 61. much reason I had to tearme his Letter vnlearned you may iudge by his laying together on an heape the points of Catholique Doctrine which he mislikes Whereof he thinks Purgatory to be the ground-worke Is it not a learned enumeration to make Merits Masses Vigils Superaltaries Noone-day-Lampes Graines Holy-water Oyle Salt Spittle c. to haue not onely mutuall reference but fundamentall dependance on Purgatory What hath Salt Oyle Spittle to doe with Purgatory Though Purgatory should bee ouerthrown I see not why the former things as also Merits Christning and Buriall Tapers might not remaine and be vsed as they are Nick. The deeper the foundation the surer the building My Master could lay their foundation no lower then Purgatorie vnlesse he should haue set the corner stones in hell Ma. The Knight saw how Ieiunely his Aduersary pleaded for Purgatory wherefore to induce him the better to ransack his vtmost endeauours he thought fit som what hyperbolically to exaggerate the necessity of that defence vpon the soliditie whereof so manie other points had their whole dependance Min. Sir I perceiue you will stand to your friend at a pinch But in this case the Knight needs not your helpe I hope the Doctor wil bee iudged by Eckbertus who stands as stiffe for Purgatorie and knew all the Creekes of that Channel as well as the best Sculler that belongs to that Riuer Hee writing against the Cathari speakes thus z Eckbertus aduers Cathar Serm. 1. Non recipiunt sayth hee esse purgatorias poenas c. Propterea ergo arbitrantur supersluum et vanum esse orare pro mortuis Eleemosynas dare Missas celebrare irrident pulsationes campanarum They doe not hold that there are Purgatorie paines Therefore they thinke it vaine and superfluous to praie for the dead to giue Almes to celebrate Masses and they deride the tolling or chiming of Bels. Who would thinke that the tolling of a Bell had any dependance vpon Purgatorie Yet doth your owne Authour inferre the derision of them as a Consequent vpon the refusall of the other with a propterea ergo which is more then a single Illatiue Implying that if they had had any respect of Purgatorie they would not haue made so light of Dirges and Bells Ma. It is an old Maxime vitia a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Macarius Hom. 40 esse concathenata Errors and vices are linked together like Sampsons Foxes by one end or other If you take away Purgatorie the charge and paines which manie superstitious persons are at about Indulgencies Pilgrimages Crosse-creepings Oblations Satisfactions Lampes Graines Pictures Holy water Oyle and other which they call holy vses for the easement of th' afflicted soules of their deceased friends would eyther in toto or in tanto bee abated Besides I doe not thinke the Doctor can shew me any mention of this Riffe Raffe trash according to the Romish ridiculous practise till such time as Purgatorie was set on foot Iab What say you to the Macchabees and the whole Church of God in those dayes that did practise prayers for soules in Purgatorie Ma. I had thought Master Vicar had put you out of hope of all succour from the Machabees Will you neuer leaue begging the question I would you would take the paines to read Macarius his 22. Homily 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there should you find the opinion of the Church in diebus illis When the Soule sayth he steeteth out of the bodie if it be guiltie of sinne the Deuils come and the powers of darkenesse take it away But as for the Saints and children of God when their soules depart the Quire of Angels are readie to receiue them and bring them vnto the Lord. So that the prayer for the dead which you vrge did not presuppose Purgatorie as being rather a Commemoration and thankesgiuing for the Saints departed which we doe not denie Nick. Perhaps Iabal meanes that Church I mean that Ship which is steered by the supposed b Papae stereus aurum putant Arabicum successor of Peter Min. If that be all Prayer for the dead will not hold out vnlesse the c Quod adimitur principali adimitur accessorio Pope can bee prooued greater then Peter What Peters charter was wee find in Bishop d Longland in Ps 101. p. 569. B. Longlands records vpon those wordes Tu es Petrus super hanc petram c. vpon which he comments thus Notanter dixit super hanc petram non super hunc Petrum id est non super vnum priuatum hominem sed super hanc petram hoc est super stabilem huius fidei firmitatem quam tu iam confessus es super fundamentum neutiquam vacillans vel aliter super eam petram quam iamiudum confessus est Petrus nimirum super ipsum Christum So that a Popes Decree may bee fundamentum vacillans and implies not the laudable practise of the Church Nick. Now is the Doctor almost besides the saddle He hath lost one of his Stirrops the authoritie of the Machabees and the head of his Church haue receiued a foule foyle Well Doctor if this beene the first of your fiue Victories then hath your Purgatories Iacke a Lent lost one of his best legges and now stands vpon foure lame feet It shall cost me the best point at my hose but I wil haue one flurt at his Iacket and turne him on his back CHAP. III. Purgatories Deduction Logically and Theologically disproued MAster Vicar let mee craue one word in your eare Me thinks Doctor Triumph stands now like the Embleme of Suretiship with his head out of the little end of the home Hee had an easie entrance into this argument but being disappointed of his hold on the Machabees he stickes by the sholders and cannot get out you may doe well to lend him your hand or else this Parle will bee all dashed Min. Sir seeing you haue taken vpon you Purgatories quarrell and the Motists defence we would gladly heare what you haue to say against the Knights answere touching the deduction of Purgatorie from the wordes of Christ Mat. 12.32 vpon which your fellow Romanists doe especially relie Iab Christ in that a Pag. 65. place saith of sinne against the Holy Ghost that it shall be forgiuen neyther in this world nor in the world to come whence Catholiques inferre that some sinnes may be pardoned in the next World For this text containeth both a distinction of two sorts of sinnes some remissible others irremissible and of two places where remission may bee had namely in this present world and the world to come signifying that some sinnes may be remitted in the one place some in the other