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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A30810 The scornfull Quakers answered and their railing reply refuted by the meanest of the Lord's servants Magnus Byne. Byne, Magnus. 1656 (1656) Wing B6402; ESTC R30264 132,489 135

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Scripture mentions I own knowing that the body is destroyed and dead and my Soul as a bird delivered from the snare Answ Further the second birth sins not 1 Joh. 3. 9. and 1 Joh. 5. 18. the second birth is without guile and spot Rev. 14. 5. and Christ is manifest to take away sin and he that abides in him sins not 1 Joh. 3. 5 6. Repl. All this I own rightly understood but 't is much besides the question for the question is not whether the new man sin but whether the man in whom this new man is manifested sin or not seeing that which is born of the spirit is spirit and that which is born of the flesh is flesh the spirit cannot sin but the flesh can do nothing but sin Rom. 7. 17 to the end and Gal. 5. 17. there you may see the two births the two men flesh and spirit and what their actions are and yet I own a taking away both of the guilt and power of sin where Christ is manifested in the new birth Answ Further but thou takest Tythes and so deniest Christ who takes away sin Repl. By the same argument thou mayest say to a Magistrate Souldier Landlord Labourer thou takest custome pay rent wages therefore thou deniest Christ who takes away sin Answ Further but Christ thou sayest has as much power to cleanse man as the first Adam to defile man Repl. Christ has more and greater Rom. 5. 15 to the end That which defiles do's not come from power properly but from weaknesse or want of power but that which cleanseth comes from the mighty power of God and yet though man be not cleansed God is not to be blamed for who art thou repliest shall the thing formed say unto him that formed it why hast thou made me thus Rom. 9. 18 19 20 c. Answ Further I who lived in the wayes customes fashions pastimes and vain recreations of the world it is high time for thee to plead for sin in this life Repl. This is but thy clamour neither do I plead for sin but for the truth of God witnessed both by the Letter and spirit unto all that are not fools and blinde and thy denial of sin Satan and Antichrist to be where they are either in power or part is the old trick of the evil one to hide himself where he is and that too many have drunk in this poison and say with their hearts and practice though not with their tongues Stand by I am holier than thou thou art a sinner a Satan an Antichrist I am none that many are under this sad delusion it appears by their clamouring and condemning all that worship not under their green Tree and whether thou and they are not greater friends to the beast and sin that dream in your hearts you have no sin and so are lifted up than those who confesse they have sin and so are kept humble meek and low which of these are the greatest friends to sin I leave to the light to judge Answ Further if all have remnants of sin when then must man be cleansed seeing as the Tree falls so it lies and no unclean person no unclean thing must enter into the Kingdom when is the time of cleansing is there a purgatory after man be turned into the dust Repl. The time of cleansing is here here we are not in the flesh but in the spirit that we may be comforted and yet in the flesh as well as in the spirit that we may be humbled God beholds no iniquity in Jacob and yet Jacob sees iniquity in himself all his iniquities are covered that he may be blessed and yet his iniquities sometimes appear that he may be lesse than the least of all his mercies Friend there is a purging here a real total thorow eternal purging in Gods account who reckons Saints by his grace and yet whilest the flesh remains it will hanker after the flesh and beget such breathings after self and things below that many times the best will see cause enough to mourn and to long after a dissolution when they shall see their enemies again no more for ever so that here needs no Purgatory after this life sin is here condemned destroyed and in part executed and when the dissolution comes 't is bid farewell to all the Saints of God and left to inhabite here below something here of this thou mayest call a contradiction 't is so unto the blinde 't is not so unto the wise Answ Further all who are led by the light of Christ into his life as they come and abide so are they totally freed from the worlds life and power of sin and darknesse and to lead up to this was the Saints exhortation into the Unity out of the woe into him who is but one in whom is all truth and no sin nor self nor deceivings Repl. All who are led by the light of Christ so far as they come and abide in his life spirit through his light and leading so far no farther are they freed from the life of worldlings and the power of sin and darknesse and the end of the Lords spirit by his exhortations unto others in his messengers and Saints was and is to perswade them more into the Unity of the spirit through the bond of peace that so they might be kept from the woe of sin and darknesse through a dividing from this spirit and might learn to live in him whose light and life is one in nature though not in measure in all the sons of God and he who walks and lives in Christ and Christ in him is so far delivered from sin and self and deceit into all light and truth as he walks and abides lesse or more in a sweet manifestation of his life in Christ so that Christ manifested is still the standard and measure of all our light and truth and redemption from sin and darknesse and if this manifestation were full and compleat in this earthly house what need the Saints groan and wait for a dissolution 2 Cor. 5. 1. to 10. and for the appearance and coming of Christ in glorie 1 Joh. 3. 1 2. and through hope of this endeavour still after the Lords purity verse 3. waiting for a full enojyment and discovery of their adoption or of that unto which they are adopted Rom. 8. 23. Answ Further Paul saith we know but in part we Prophesie but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9. and so say I in the time of Prophesie man sees but in part and knows but it part Repl. Friend why doest thou here in thine ignorance like others to cover their ignorance wrest the Scriptures Paul sayes we know in part and we Prophesie in part and thou turnest it thus In the time of Prophesie indeed man sees but in part and knows but in part Paul do's not say in the time of Prophesie we know but in part but according as our Prophesie or Vision is so is our knowledge both but in
I should be a lyar like thy self yet I finde to the praise of Gods rich grace that his sicknesse is unto death his body cannot be cured but by the Word of the Lord I shall destroy him and so in all his appearances he is seen And though thou plead his cause like a man well feed strongly against me yet he and all his Angells must to their place go where I leave thee with him in thy dark imaginations romping up and down to perish in his Kingdom unlesse the Lord arise mightily for thy deliverance But thou tellest me again Repl. I am found in the pollutions of the World in the spots thereof living in disobedience to the minde of Jesus Answ I know there is none can say I have made my heart clean I am pure from my sin Though I have not attained unto what I desire yet I have through grace still the victory in the end and I am not in the flesh but in the spirit according to Gods account and here I know all things shall work together for my good and not withstanding all thy hard speeches yet mine own conscience bears me witnesse that with my minde I serve Jesus not my self or any other man in the World and so am not seared Repl But thou tellest me In the children of disobedience the Prince of darknesse rules even the beast which all the World wander after Answ And so say I the whole World lies in wickednesse and are obedient to the Prince of darknesse in fulfilling the desires of the flesh and mind and so wee are all till endued with power from on high and fetched out of this grave by the voice of the Son of God Repl. Thou sayest further When my measure I have filled up among the beast of the field and the Lamh have gored with my Hornes apace yet shall a band about my neck be put and tormented shall I be Answ As for the beasts of the field I leave thee to wander up and down with them in the field of the World till the Angell thrust in his sickle into the earth and gather the Vine of the earth and cast it into the great wine-presse of the wrath of God yet I desire thy life rather than thy death And still I say read thine own lesson over in thine own heart I know no band about my neck but the Lords work and will this keeps me from goaring the Lamb this makes me to own the Lamb still and this drives me still whither I with Christ would go into the sweetnesse and fulnesse of God where I can lye down and sleep in peace In mine answer to another of thy questions thou tellest me Repl. I am telling what the beast is and the number of his name whose number is 666. Answ Here I finde thee again shifting and scoffing and the reason is because thou wert discovered to be in the number of the beast this the wisdome of God saw afarre of and gave that answer to thy question as a sword to wound thee though thou spare and hide thy self For look the answer and compare thy spirit with it and see how right thou art in the number of the beast For art not thou one who cries out I am a God that cannot erre yet to the man that hath understanding though thy party be deluded in the midst of all thine imaginary fulnesse in thy self thou art but a poor miserable man that lies in errour this is the number of all thy wisdom 't is but fancie darknesse it is not wisdom and this is the summe of all the wisdom of the beast But thou art telling me Repl. Here is wisdom among them who are in it knit and from on high this wisdom is and was before the world was in it is no sin guile or spot Answ Here thou art lifted up on high to be without sin guile or spot and yet art blinde crafty subtle to say thou hast no sin and so thy sin remained upon the score I know the wisdom of God is high deep incomprehensible and was ever is and shall be ever the same and in this there is no sin or spot But what 's all this to make good thy dream of thine own party of knowing as they are known now and of being as pure in this earthly body as the Saints are in the heavenly Art thou as wise and as spotlesse as the wisdom of God is Ask thine own conscience and stiflle it not But go on Repl. In this wisdom and understanding thou sayest learned is the Vnity out of it the number Answ Well then out of thine own mouth art thou judged not to look upon or be in the Unity but in the number and so to make the number or variety the cause of dividing from the Unity where the Unity is appearing couldest thou be looking upon the Unity and not be telling of the number thou wouldest learn to love the Unity in the midst of variety and not cry out so much upon the variety or number where there is the Unity But to let thee alone in thy fancie though it condemne thy self Repl. Thou sayest That I who out of the light am turned am out of the Vnity and so in loftinesse in scoffing pride cov●tousnesse fair speeches customes of the world Answ And why may not a Quaker be guilty of all these If but of one in form then of all in spirit And so to apply to thy self this Art thou not still lofty scoffing jeering cousening the simple exalting thy self idleing up and down to live upon other mens labours under a pretence of preaching the Gospel which is not the Gospel but thine own fancie vision and blasphemy many times against the Tabernacle of God and them that dwell in Heaven And are not these some of the ill nay worst customes of the world And so according to thy fine talk of the number of the beast thou art found even thou in his spots living out of the Unity which is the nature and work of God thou seest in others In the number of a man which is the variety of wickednesses in the world these thou art found alive in and making thy self great too in thine imagination at the sight of a number or variety of forms and failings thou seest many of the precious ones of God in bondage too much unto Repl. Further thou tellest me My head plots deceit Answ I could wish mine head were a fountain of tears that I could weep day night for all the deceit in the land for all the abominations that are done in the midst of this untoward generation And I can desire freely the Lord to consume and destroy all the deceiveablenesse of unrighteousnesse that is nourished in them that perish because they believe not the truth that they might be saved Let them be consumed by the brightnesse and coming of the Lord I have no plots in me against the very worst of men but can let them alone from being