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A30961 The Winchcomb-papers revived wherein are contained some particulars concerning the govenment of the church, the liturgy and forms of prayer, the ordination and power of ministers, the administration of the Sacrament &c. : for the use of dissenting brethren. Barksdale, Clement, 1609-1687. 1675 (1675) Wing B810; ESTC R25862 79,287 210

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the particulars in my frail memory I mentioned not Now Sir for the proceeding against me at Winchcomb the last week which together with a very frivolous report about the D. of Y. in the inquiry whereof methinks the Religion of an oath was made cheap was the business of the three Justices I must tell you what good people say That the new-saints there discover what they are by their pride and spightfulness That they procured warrant to fetch in some of my neighbours to swear against me for using the Common-Prayer-Book who are not so Book-learned that they can well tell when I use it when not That they some of them gave this false evidence that on the Monday sollowing the Dispute when Mr. Helme would not appear I had drawn to the Church a company you were one of lewd persons That the Justices have not obliged me by any humanity or charity toward me suffering me to be accused by such fellowes in my absence that But no more of this now To conclude this scribble I would have all know that I do forgive my Adversaries whom I have assayed to cool by kind letters and that I do not fear them that I am well affected to all Goverment by which I am protected and that I am so well opinioned of the present Governor that I believe he will at least tolerate that Religion wherein himself as well as we were once baptiz'd C. B. to Mr. G. December 24. 1653. SIR I have seriously considered both what you writ to me and what you said You said Let Ministers preach at home and take heed of Meetings It is good to be wise and wary but to omit the means and opportunity of doing good in our Callings even when there is some shew of perill to our selves I doubt will argue rather a timorous deserting of our Cause than a prudent wariness Ministers must not only labour single and in their own Cures but by a brotherly union and mutual assistance advance the work of their Master and procure the peace of the Church When so many unlearned new Teachers both single and united shew such zeal to make proselytes shall we that have gone through the Schools to S. Maryes and through university degrees have ascended the Pulpit and by a regular mission are employed in our stations shall we I say let the people lose the fruit of our long studyes shall we be cold and heartless and suffer our sheep to wander as if they had no shepheards You writ to me That the Truth and our Cause did not suffer by my Dispute but my friends fear is that I in my estate may suffer in defense thereof Truly Sir the grave judgment of you and other friends that I have done some service to a good Cause doth more comfort me than your fears of my suffering can discourage me I think upon the Psalmists words Trust in the Lord and be doing good I think upon Gods words to Paul Be not afraid but speak and hold not thy peace For I am with thee I think upon Paul's words to the Philippians To you it is given not only to believe but to suffer I think upon Christ's words Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you for my sake Rejoyce and be exceeding glad I need not comment upon these passages nor apply them Assure your self I am not afraid to suffer as a Christian My estate indeed is but small if it were great God forbid I should love it more than a good Conscience I am in hope to keep both safe and my hope is confirmed since I hear that at the very same time when our Adversaries were contriving to undo me and other of my worthy brethren The Generall was declared Protector who is said to be of a moderate and a gentle and obliging Disposition From whom I may justly expect such a preservation in my place whereby I may be able which is all my ambition to breed up my five little Boys to fear God to love their Countrey and to obey their superiours C. B. to D. C. December 30. 1653. MOst dear Sir I have born a loss which will make all that can happen seem but light unto me ô passi graviora so that the danger threatned moves me not But truly upon the late change which I hope will turn to the general good as well as mine I wrote to you that the danger I conceiv'd was past and therefore you might burn the letters No wonder that in the delivery of my papers to that man you receiv'd vile words and threats against me Such are the Civilities of some new-Saints that have sound out a Religion of another temper from His who as himself is meek and lowly so requireth all his Disciples to be like him and that are of another spirit than that whose fruits are long suffering and gentleness 'T was well you ventur'd not to deliver the other letter having had such experience Now Sir to answer your Question where I am prosecuteed I cannot only I conjecture I shall hear of my Adversaries at the Sessions and there I may hope well of the equity of the other Justices As for the Articles against me it seems by what I have learned concerning the examinations they will run thus 1. That he said he would out Mr. Helme though I think when they sought false witness to prove this they found none And indeed I do not use to threaten 2. That he hath sometime used some part of the Common-Prayer-Book Themselves use not the Directory and the Order of the 12. of November last protects all Assemblies but Popish 3. That he Christned such a mans child with the sign of the Cross in token that he should not be asham'd to confess the faith of Christ crucified 4. That he dined at an Ordinary with the D. of Y. at Winchcomb About whom there hath been much a doe among those Justices to the exposing of themselves and their office to much contempt among the people Terrible Articles But since the Dissolution the Men are not terrible so that I may banish them from my studies and return unto my Grotius or rather use the words of the Psalmist Return unto thy rest O my Soul for the Lord hath been good to thee The Lord taketh my part against my adversaries The Lord shall give his people the blessing of Peace To his gracious providence I commend you and all yours Testimonies pertinent to severall passages in the Letters and Dispute Collected out of Protestant Divines as they came to hand to be referred to their proper places by the diligent Reader Dr. HAMMOND Of Binding and Loosing Pag. 74. THey quite deform the primitime Institution of Excommunication who deny the Sacrament to Whole Congregations at once without any charge laid to all or any part of them save only that they are a mixt Congregation wherein there are some evill men which yet is not legally proved neither and they also who deny it to
avoided if after due admonitions they will not be amended Whosoever shall peruse two of the following Papers the first entituled A reformed Congregation The second The Congregation of S. will acknowledge the Author to be no favourer of ignorance and scandalous living but one that is studious to advance and increase knowledge and piety and to procure and maintain good Order The more cause have I to note either the want of charity or want of care in that Writer who in a certain Preface hath snatched the Argument out of the Letter May 26 and contrary to the Authors minde and the many expressions in the Book put upon him this Thesis That the ignorant and scandalous must be admitted to the Communion For it is one thing to administer the Sacrament in a Congregation though mixt i. e. though after your diligence in doing your part there be a mixture of good and bad as there will be while men are men and it is another thing to administer carelesly to all sorts without preparation without observation without suspension of such as the Minister is assured are uncapable of receiving any benefit thereby That the fear of a mixture is not reason enough to forbear the Sacrament is we still believe evinced by some at least of those Arguments How they are perverted by the Repenter the impartiall Reader will easily observe if he please to compare the places I will here mention onely the last As we offer the Covenant to All so must we offer the Seal to All that do outwardly submit to the Covenant Out of these words the Repeater frames this Argument The Covenant must be offered to all Therefore the Sacrament must be offered to all even to the ignorant and scandalous Leaving out the qualification added to All in the Letter namely that outwardly submit to the Covenant by which he might if he had pleased have understood those that professe faith and repentance and outwardly or in the eye of their neighbours are not rebellious against good counsell and admonition If profession of faith and repentance that is a voluntary subjection to the Gospel be not the proper Quality of a Receiver what is And when shall Ministers perform their duty of administration if they must behold first the work of Grace wrought in the heart of every Receiver Let the Minister instruct exhort admonish his people let the people also exhort and admonish one another yea let them separate and gather as long as they will yet still there will be a mixture Perfect purity is reserved for heaven Labour for purity labour for perfection we must but in the way of charity and humility in the way of peace and order The de●ence not of negligent but of faithful Ministers in Parish-Churches Churches was the thing undertaken by this Respondent who whilest he labored to compose the difference by private conference was unhappily engaged to a kinde of publick Dispute wherein the Reader will quickly finde a great fault wandring from the Question and he will find as easily where to lay the blame However it may pass among the scuffles of our time not the worst In the Relation we know not of any wrong done to the Opponents with whom the Respondent wisheth no more contention but what shall pursue Truth and Peace with the swistest foot For he is not glad to see the divisions of Protestants and Papists muchless of Protestants among themselves least of all of English Protestants striving to the ruin of our Mother-Church All good men will joyn in Reverend Doctor Bernard's most charitable wish That such as do consent in substantials for matter of Doctrine would joyn in Discipline and not let private interests and Circumstantials keep them thus far asunder I conclude with the words of an honorable and religious person This therefore is the best and surest way because we are all apt to be deceived to be sincere in our disquisitions modest in our determinations charitable in our Censures and apt to communicate in things of evident Truth and confessed Holinesse Mar. 25. 1657. Post-script THe Respondent hath been heavily censur'd for what he said at the end of the Dispute concerning Universal Redemption vide Epist Davenantii ad Duraeum But he saith he will change his Opinion when he shall see the following Paper of that Title solidly answered Mean while he hopeth he shall by Gods Grace patiently endure the loss and displeasure that in these times attend upon that and other wholesome Doctrines The Preface THat the patient Reader may see the first Rise of this Dispute between Mr. Barksdale of Sudeley and Mr. Helme of Winchcombe we must return into the memory of that time when not long after Mr. Helme his coming to that Church he desired the aid of his neighbouring Ministers to preach in their turns a Lecture there Mr. Barksdale was of all men most ready being the nearest neighbour to co-operate in a work tending to the benefit of that old Town and I have heard him say he should be very unmindfull of the good example of his Father and eldest Brother that aregon before if he should not in his way also study the good of that place of his Birth and it is Poverty only which like an armed man keeps him off from being an eminent Benefactor there He had the more hope of this design because Mr. Helme was then lookt upon not only by those of the Parish that brought him thither but by others too even those of a contrary Interest as a man diligent in his calling charitable to the poor fair-condition'd in his behaviour and moderate in point of religion So that as yet the people of all sorts heard him gladly Mr. Barksdale was the more confirmed in his good opinion of his Moderation having in familiar conference heard him much commend Mr. Baxter and his writings a man indeed worthy of much commendation especially for his great love and study of the Churches Peace God direct him and all others in the right way unto it Well the Lecture began Mr. Collier of Blockley one whom Mr. Barksdale professeth to honour for his Christian temper and the lovely Graces he hath observed in him being the first preacher and I remember before he came Mr. Helme entertained the Hearers with expounding of the beginning of the 122. Psalm I was glad when they said unto me Let us go into the house of the Lord. Which sudden exercise of his was so well approved by Mr. Barksdale that some dayes after being a little given to the Muses because of his daily conversation with some young Gentlemen-Scholars that live with him he sent Mr. Helme this following Anagram HELMIUS MELIUS Maii. 27. 51. Helmius ad populum vicinos dicere Fratres Vultne Docere potest Ipse suum melius Qui bona qui bene jam docuit meliora docebit Ni fuer it populus non melior melius The next turn was assigned to Mr. Barksdale who brought with him his friend Mr. Towers
man of a different way and to make good his cause to appoint a time place and some discreet persons to be witnesses and I would wait on him Let him shew you my Note I never heard of any good order at any late-publick popular disputes and it is against my peaceable disposition and Studies to engage my self to the noise factions of such meetings 'T will be better sure first to corfer in private I will meet Mr. Helme at Mr. Freemans house if he will The sooner the better Let him chuse some se●ect friends of judgment and I shall be glad to have both of you present to keep us within the Laws of Academicall Disputation Upon which meeting if we can agree upon any publick orderly way of Tryall that may tend to a good effect with leave of Superiours I shall God willing be ready and either answer or oppose so far as it concerns me I most desire to confer by letters with any sober Divine Nec quenquam fugio Your very humble Servant C. B. That same week was sent to Mr. H. a paper conteining three false Doctrins to be confuted at Gods house in Winchcomb by some neighbouring Ministers Novemb. 9. with an Epigram to the erring Brethren Papists look one away c. See it immediately before the Dispute Mr. H. to Mr. B. October 31. 53. SIR There was a nameless paper sent to me with three questions and a Libell at the end of it directed to the erring brethren the Messenger said it came from you I desire to know who those erring Brethren are The question I propos'd takes in the substance of what is in difference between you and me And I shall be ready the day and hour appointed viz. 10. of the clock on the 9. day of November next at the Meeting-house at Winchcomb which you Idolatrically call God's House to justify through Grace that assertion I sent to you and I do desire your positive Answer whether you will be there or not to answer as you first proposed my opposition Your friend so far as you are for truth C. H. Mr. B. to Mr. H. November 1. 53. SIR I am very prone of my self to wait on you either privately or publickly but you know I think or may know that my Intention was for a private meeting I am assured by some judicious friends that no scholastic Order is to be hoped for at your publick Meeting Wherefore I may without any injury to my Cause decline it being ready to answer either by word before some discreet witnesses or by writing as you shall please to propose your Arguments But pray let them be Arguments not ill words as Libell Idolatry Murdering and other the like elegancies of yours In all wayes that become an ingenuous man and a Christian I am your servant All-Saints-Day Mr. B's Reply to Mr. A. P. Octob. 31. 53. DEar Sir Si judicas cognosce My self am best able to inform you both what my Thoughts are and what my Actions are Ever since I was initiated into Holy Orders which was above twenty years since it hath been my Design in preaching with sincerity and simplicity of heart I thank God though with much weakness to commend unto my Hearers both the Form and the Power of Godliness not one without the other but Both Quae Deus conjunxit I could never approve of those that pretending to set up the Power cry down the Form that is all decent and comely Rites and Ceremonies ordained by the Church nor of those that while they were zealous for Rites and Forms neglected the Power The Church of England I have always reverenced I mean in respect of the excellent constitutions and Laws of it as for corrupt practices of Officers or Ministers therein I can be sorry for them I cannot defend them And now since the late obstinate Disorders of our people I am more in love with the Beauty of the Church appearing still in the said constitutions Till I find a better Church I must have leave to continue in the communion of this A causeless separation from it I cannot excuse from the crime of Schism In the Ministration of the Sacrament I indeavor to follow the Rule so far as I can and after the best preparation I can use admit only those that joyn with me in holy professions and serious and solemn engagements to lead a Christian life If I be enformed of any particular that scandalously breaks his Vow I will take heed how I admit him again without satisfaction But where things are doubtful I encline to the more favourable part Private Conference either by word or Letter I much desire with any of your Temper Publick I refuse not if it may be quiet and orderly Your Letter I much thank you for I will study it and give you Account This general Answer I scribled and sent you this next morn after the receit of yours that you may know I have kindly taken it and that I heartily am SIR Yours C. B. His fuller Answer to Mr. A. P. Dear Sir THe Zeal that sparkles all over your Letter of the 26. of Octo. which I have now had leasure to read so often that I can read it perfectly calls for a more particular Answer than I gave you on Monday last Expect only a few brief notes upon it till I have the opportunity of a friendly meeting You say you do not find but Mr. H. proceeded according to what I proposed to him My note shews that I offered a meeting at the place he would appoint in the presence of some discreet Auditors What place can be understood but a private place or house as I also explaned my self to the Baylif that received of me the Paper mentioning his house or Mr. F's so that it is no receding from my offer but a refusal of an unreasonable demand if I come not among the confused multitude Peruse a passage in Hookers Preface concerning publick Conferences or Disputes and consider whether Mr. H. his publike meeting will admit of any such Rules You say You are grieved to hear of me as an Opposer of Reformation c. If you would make it appear to me that the work at Winchcomb is a work of true Reformation Oh how glad should I be to contribute my best aid to it But I administer the holy things you say to Prophane Wretches the haters of Godliness who the next hour c. We confess our selves to God miserable and wretched sinners but we trust in his mercy that he will accept us in Christ not weiging our merits but pardoning our offences I shall use the best means I can to find out those you characterize and deal with them accordingly but after all care there may be false Professors and Revolters in the truest Church I countenance none in their corrupt and loose waies but on the contrary shew the danger of such looseness and exhort unto all Gospel-Order nor do I know any of my Company that do
particular men sufficiently catechised without any publick cognizance of their crime or process of admonition first and second or that designe that exclusion to any other end than ut peccantes resipiscant the reducing sinners to repentance and therefore no small petty trifle is a sufficient matter for this but contumacious continuing in some scandalous sin after admonitions from which when they return again by a sincere approved repentance they are to be absolved In his Preface THat the power of Binding and Loosing may be restored to its full vigour in this Church againe and wherever sobriety shall advise by addition of penitentiall Canons be reformed or regulated and being put into the primitive chanell may there be permitted to shew forth it self in the native purity and brightness and so being ordered according to Gods designation obtain Gods blessing to make it effectuall to its end shall be the prayer of him who professes to love and admire the beauty of this fabrick of the Church of England even when it ly●s polluted in its blood and to wish no greater blessing to its dearest friends or for whom he daily prayes most implacable enemies than that the scales may fall off from all our eyes that we may see and value what is so illustriously conspicuous and estimable in it self c. If the abuses and excesses and mistakes were removed and that which is Christian and Apostolicall revived and restored in prudence and sobriety might yet again shew the world the use of that Prelacy which is now so zealously contemned and recover at once the order and the estimation of it set more Saints on their knees in petitions for the reducing and restoring than ever employed their hands toward the suppressing of it D. Jer. Taylor in the Dedicatory before his Winter-Sermons Of preaching WHo would have in him so little of a man as not to be greedy of the Word of God and of holy Ordinances even therefore because they are so hard to have And this evill although it can have no excuse yet it hath a great and a certain cause For the Word of God still creates new Appetites as it satisfies the old and enlarges the capacity as it fills the first propensities of the Spirit For all spirituall blessings are seeds of Immortality and of infinite felicitie they swell up to the comprehensions of Eternity and the desires of the soul can never be wearied but when they are decayed as the stomack will be craving every day unless it be sick and abused But every mans experience tels him now that because men have not Preaching they less desire it their long fasting makes them not to love their meat and so we have cause to fear the people will fall to an Atrophy then to a loathing of holy food and then Gods anger will follow the method of our sin and send a famine of the word and Sacraments Paulo post And by the same instrument Preaching God restored the beauty of the Church when it was necessary she should be reformed it was the assiduous and learned Preaching of those whom God chose for his Ministers in that work that wrought the Advantages and perswaded those Truths which are the enamel and beauty of our Churches And because by the same means all things are preserved by which they are produc'd it cannot but be certain that the present State of the Church requires a greater care and prudence in this Ministry than ever especially since by Preaching some endeavour to supplant Preaching and by intercepting the fruits of the flocks to dishearten the shepheards from their Attendances The same Author Of Zeal p. 185. ANy zeal is proper for Religion but the zeal of the Sword and the zeal of anger this is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bitterness of zeal and it is a certain temptation to every man against his duty for if the Sword turns Preacher and dictates Propositions by Empire instead of Arguments and engraves them in mens hearts with a Ponyard that it shall be death to believe what I innocently and ignorantly am perswaded of it must needs be unsafe to try the Spirits to try all things to make enquiry And yet without this liberty no man can justify himself before God or man nor confidently say that his Religion is best since he cannot without a final danger make himself able to give a right sentence and to follow that which he finds to be the best This may ruin Souls by making Hypocrits or careless and complyant against conscience or without it but it doth not save Souls though peradventure it should force them to a good opinion This is inordination of zeal For Christ by reptoving St. Peter drawing his Sword even in the cause of Christ for his sacred and yet injur'd person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Theophilact teaches us not to use the Sword though in the cause of God or for God himself because he will secure his own interest only let him be served as himself is pleased to command and it is like Moses passion it throws the Tables of the Law out of our hands and breaks them in pieces out of indignation to see them broken This is the zeal that is now in fashion and hath almost spoiled Religigion Men like the zealots of the Jews cry up their Sect and in it their Interest they affect Disciples and fight against the Opponents And we shall find in Scripture that when the Apostles began to Preach the meekness of the Christian institution salvation and promises charity and humility there was a zeal set up against them The Apostles were zealous for the Gospel The Jews were zealous for the Law And see what different effect these two zeals did produce The zeal of the Law came to this They stirred up the City they made tumults they sent parties of Souldiers to silence and to imprison the Preachers c. But the zeal of the Apostles was this They Preached publickly and privatly they prayed for all men they wept to God for the hardness of mens hearts they became all things to all men c. They endured every man and wronged no man They would do any good thing and suffer any evill if they had but hopes to prevail upon a Soul They perswaded men meekly they entreated them humbly they convinced them powerfully they watched for their good but medled not with their interest c. L. Hatton in the Preface to his Psalter Of Union HE that is ready to joyn with all the societies of Christians in the world in those things which are certainly true just and pious gives great probation that he hath at least animum Catholicum no Schismatical Soul because he would actually communicate with all Christendome if bona fides in falso articulo sincere perswasion be it true or false did not disoblige him since he clearly distinguishes persons from things and in all good things communicates with persons bad enough in others This is the Communion of Charity