Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A25208
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A faithful rebuke to a false report lately dispersed in a letter to a friend in the country Concerning certain differences in doctrinals, between some dissenting ministers in London.
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Alsop, Vincent, 1629 or 30-1703.
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1697
(1697)
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Wing A2910; ESTC R215794
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39,818
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63
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in our place and stead do not with many now a days signify a Surrogation how can Mr. Williams help that If Surrogation signifies in our place and stead it s very fair for I would always have the more dark Term explained by the more clear and familiar and not that which is plain by the more dubious and dark I should think the Light should comment better upon Darkness than Darkness would interâ—ret the Light Still he carries on the Charge These Words do not sigâ—ifie a proper Change of Persons in a legal sense I answer â—ho can tell that till they shall tell us what a proper â—hange of Persons in a legal sense does signify its own self â—t them agree if they can to fix what the meaning of proper Change of Persons in a legal sense does import and â—en it may be judged whether in our place and stead â—oes signify as much as that comes to But the Caviller proceeds in our place and stead with â—me signify no more than for our Good why 't is imposâ—ble they should That which Christ suffered in our â—ead was for our good to bear the Punishment of our â—ns to satisfy Divine Justice was certainly for our good â—hat by his Death and Sufferings he delivered us from â—e greatest Evils Hell and Wrath and that he purâ—ased for us the greatest Blessings Heaven and Glory â—as most certainly for our good So that he argues â—us If for our good then not in our stead But I will inert the Argument If in our stead undoubtedly for our â—od and therefore for our good because in our stead 2. The Manuscript gives a Second Answer The â—nglish Socinians declare that the Hinge of the Controversy â—tween them and us turns not on the Words in our stead â—at the Men of the Racovian way consider our Saviour as â—ffering for us and in our stead Take this Reply § 1. 'T is all the better I had rather have them speak â—onestly though with a knavish meaning than speak â—d mean both like Knaves § 2. But pray Sir I direct my self to you Mr. Maâ—script If the Socinians will put an unsound Sense upâ—n sound Words will you quit the sound Phrase because â—ey put a wretched Sense on 't What other Remedy â—ill you advise us to Why our wise Gentlemen have â—und out an Expedient that shall out-wit them for if â—ey think to evade in our place and stead they have another ready viz. That in the Sufferings and Death of Christ there was a Commutation of Persons But this wilâ— not do the Feat For Socinus and Crellius will grant there was such a Change of Persons and what will they do now Why here 's a new Phrase ready to put in itâ— place viz. That Christ died in the Person of Sinners or that he took on him the Person of Sinners Not too fast that would have served for next time But assure your self Sir though your Invention be never so fruitful iâ— new Phrases the Socinians are as pregnant in Equivocations and Interpretations to elude and evade the new Terms and you must be put to the needless trouble to make new Intrenchments as they distinguish you out oâ— the old and so on till you have not one Foot of Ground to 〈◊〉 See now to what a wretched pickle you have reduced your self and which is more the Cause and Truth of Christ. The Socinians have by a false Gloss driven you from that old excellent Phrase in our place and stead you retreat to a Change of Persons between Christ and us They put a false Gloss upon that and then you retire to Christ's dying in the Person of Sinners Do you think they cannot give a false Construction of that too and so you must make and coin new Terms and Phrases in infinitum § 3. I will therefore in Charity if you are pleased to â—ccept it recommend an easy Expedient to you Iâ— you suspect that any under a sound Expression conceals an unsound Meaning ask him if he understands it properly in a legal Sense or no ask him if he means that Christ suffered in our stead as a Sacrifice to satisfy God's Iustice and there you have driven him to the end of his Equivocations for which Mr. Williams has given you the only proper Draught in the place I have already exemplified And beyond this you cannot go unless you will have recourse to the Rack or Spanish Inquisition which is a Remedy worse than the Disease § 4. I add one thing more If both these Phrases Christ's suffering and dying in our place and stead and that other A Change of Persons between Christ and us be liable to be thus practised upon by Men of great Wit and little Conscience and that no Terms can be found out so plain but crafty Heads will suborn them into an evil Meaning I would then a Thousand times sooner chuse to adhere to this Phrase Christ suffered and died in our stead and place loco nostro vice nostra than to that other In the Sufferings of Christ there was a Change of Persons between Christ and us For the former has had its Signification strongly fixed and setled by long usage and prescription whereas this latter is but of Yesterday and scarce Two Persons no not the Inventers are agreed amongst themselves what Sense to stamp upon it Again the plainest Christians have a tolerable Understanding of the former whereas the other does but amuse and confound them Nor is it so dangerous to the Main of the Cause to mistake in the one as in the other for he that by Christ's suffering in our stead intends he suffered for our good speaks the Truth but he that mistakes in the Sense of Commutation of Persons may err the whole Heavens and mis-lead himself and others into the Dreggs of Antinomianism In a Word therefore The Socinians are Subtle and have put a false Gloss upon Christ's dying in our stead shall we therefore discharge that Phrase so have they put a false one upon Commutation of Persons shall we therefore by the same Reason discharge that also Why they have put as absurd a Sense upon the Term Satisfaction which with them signifies no more than Satisfaction made to the Will or Wisdom of God must we therefore relinquish that too Then we give them up the whole Cause How much more advisable would it be to keep to the old Land Marks and adhere to what Mr. Williams with all that are sound in the Faith have asserted That Christ suffered and died in our place and stead as a Sacrifice to satisfy Divine Justice and then let the Socinians and whoever have a wicked Mind try their Skill in evading and eluding it 2. A Second heavy Charge against Mr. Williams is That he absolutely denies a Change of Persons between Christ and the Elect to which the united Brethren in their Third Paper as he calls it give a clear Answer That it could not be intended as a denial of a
legal or judicial Sense only we may so call it To which I reply 1. As we may call it is not opposed to Reality and the Criticks do commonly observe that there is a sicut veritatis as well as similitudinis and we must expect when the Humour takes him to cavil at the Apostle who Heb. 7. 9. uses a like Phrase And as I may so say Levi also who received Tythes paid Tythes to Abraham The Phrase there does not deny the Truth of the thing but is a Form of Speech wherewith we usually mollify an Expression which to tender Ears may seem a little harsh and strange such as these Terms Legal and Iudicial might do to vulgar Understandings He that will answer another Man's Words ought faithfulâ—y to quote them and oblige himself to a syllabical Exactness But I perceive this Answerer wears not such a â—crupulous Conscience Not that it is really so only we may so call it Now his not and his only are either his own Text or his own Comment and let him see to it to â—econcile them to Truth for the Words may carry this Sense As we may call it i. e. As we may lawfully call â—t and not as his Gloss bears only we may so call it which â—s either a gross perverting of the Meaning or a bold â—alsification of the Words But I have an answer worth Two of this and will produce their Great Master in this very Case thus qualifying his own Words Gosp. Truth p. 31. 2 Edit Thus â—ays Dr. Crisp in giving Christ God is pleased as it were â—o make a Change and yet none questions but that Doâ—tor thought the Change as proper as literal as they can â—esire or Words can be found to express But will they â—ive us the liberty to interpret the Doctor 's as he does Mr. Williams's Words God is pleased as it were to make a Change yea not really or properly to make a Change â—ut only as it were and so we shall have glost away the â—eloved Phrase of Change of Persons But still the Manuscript proceeds in his objecting Faculty A Commutation in a Legal Sense is the same with 〈◊〉 proper Surrogation and what is a proper Surrogation but a placing one Person in the room and place of another And thus God placed his Son and the Son so placed him self in our room and stead and he was a Sacrifice to satisfy Divine Justice Are they not all agreed One would think so Ay but there is more at the Bottom what is that why where the surety puts on the Person and stands in the Quality State and Condition of the Debtor and lies under the same Obligation to answer for him I wish I were worthy to advise this confident Man not to insist so strictly upon that Notion of Debt and Debtor For if he supposes Sin to be only a Pecuniary Debt and that the Sinner stands only obliged as such a Debtor he has betrayed the Cause he seems so zealous to defend and yielded it up irrecoverably to the Socinians And this is that which the Learned Author of the Reasons of Christ's Sufferings p. 269. has warned him of long since The true state of the Controversy says he has been rendred more obscure by the Mistakes of some who have managed it with greater Zeal than Iudgment he had never seen the Report nor Manuscript and by this means have shot over their Adversaries Heads and laid their own more open to Assaults It 's easy to observe that most of the Socinians Arguments are levelled against an Opinion which few who have considered these things do maintain and none need think themselves obliged to do it That Christ paid a rigid and proper Satisfaction for the Sins of Men under the Notion of a Debt c. The Sinner therefore is to be considered as a Malefactor who has forfeited his Life to Justice and here the Surrogation and Substitution of Christ intervenes who has by Agreement between his Father and him offered himself as a Sacrifice to Satisfy Divine Justice But still says the Manuscript in this Paper the â—hird Christ's putting on the Person of Sinners and his undertaking for them the Obligations of the Law of Works is â—ft out To which I will return these things 1. If Christ's â—tting on the Person of Sinners be left out It 's better out â—an put in till it be known what it signifies 2. And for the other Expression Christ's undertaking answer for them the Obligations of the Law of Works Is at left out too and not a Word put in their Place that peculiar to a proper Satisfaction Pray then let 's read the â—ords as he has quoted them p. 6. Christ by Agreementâ—â—ween the Father and him came into our room and stead answer for our Violation of the Law of Works What is â—e nice difference then between Christ's answering for 〈◊〉 Violation of the Law and answering for us the Violaâ—on or what the critical difference between Christ's â—â—swering for them the Violation and answering theirâ—â—iolation â—â—iolation of the Law of Works He that answers for 〈◊〉 the Violation of the Law answers for my Violation the 〈◊〉 Law but this it is to be Hypnewcriticks in Theâ—gy when it 's often ridiculous even in Philology But the Eye that sees all other things sees not it self â—d this Manuscripturist that could discern the More the Eye of the Third Paper could not see the Beam at was in his own Let the Impartial judge The First â—â—per expresses it self thus Christ putting on the Person â—â—d coming into the room and stead of Sinners to answer for â—m the Obligations of the violated Law of Works The â—hird Paper thus To answer for our Violations of the â—â—w of Works But this faithful Person repeats it thus answer for them the Obligations of the Law of Works The â—bligations of a Law as it stands intire is one thing and 〈◊〉 Obligations of a Law as violated is clearly another 〈◊〉 where Passion prevails we must not expect Impartiâ—ty especially if any thing of Mr. Williams falls under â—onsideration I will close this Head with this short Note It is freely granted that Christ suffered and died for the Persons 〈◊〉 Sinners that he suffered and died for the Sins of the Persons that he suffered and died in the room and steaâ— of their Persons that he suffered and died to make Satisfaction to the Iustice. to the vindictive Iustice of God Nay he lives in their Persons by Faith and lives for ever 〈◊〉 plead for their Persons on the Throne and yet all thâ— is nothing unless it be granted that Christ died in the Person of Sinners too which they are resolved he shaâ—â— do whether he or the Scriptures will or no. 6. I had almost forgot a Passage in the Manuscripâ— for which I ought to have begg'd Pardon because 〈◊〉 contains so much Learning In p. 7. What more commâ— amongst the Learned than Subrogatum suffectum in locuâ—alterius ejus Naturam