with_o that_o scripture_n either_o for_o one_o purpose_n or_o another_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v true_o say_v to_o have_v use_v the_o word_n allege_v in_o way_n of_o clear_n doubt_n concern_v the_o same_o and_o albeit_o in_o another_o place_n cap._n 3._o pag._n 22._o et_fw-la sequ_fw-la i_o do_v purposely_o speak_v to_o that_o scripture_n yet_o in_o that_o place_n there_o be_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o word_n by_o he_o allege_v nor_o of_o any_o such_o like_a and_o where_o such_o word_n be_v to_o be_v find_v there_o that_o scripture_n be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o now_o who_o know_v not_o that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v much_o wrong_v when_o the_o word_n which_o he_o have_v speak_v be_v take_v and_o apply_v to_o such_o a_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o do_v never_o bring_v they_o nor_o intend_v they_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o reverend_a author_n say_v against_o the_o word_n allege_v in_o his_o answer_n the_o cause_n of_o appeal_v say_v he_o be_v not_o because_o inferior_a judicature_n may_v err_v for_o so_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o all_o judicature_n even_o from_o a_o general_a council_n for_o it_o may_v err_v pag._n 315._o lin_v ult_n answ_n be_v not_o this_o the_o very_a same_o that_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n pag._n 13_o 14._o the_o page_n which_o he_o here_o undertake_v to_o answer_v be_v it_o not_o there_o say_v as_o for_o classicaticall_a provincial_n and_o national_n synod_n there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o those_o case_n of_o deficiency_n and_o possibility_n of_o partiality_n may_v befall_v the_o best_a of_o they_o and_o therefore_o if_o for_o these_o cause_v the_o single_a congregation_n may_v not_o be_v independent_a but_o there_o may_v be_v appeal_v from_o they_o the_o synod_n be_v subject_n to_o the_o like_a there_o may_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o they_o also_o for_o as_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v partial_a and_o err_v so_o we_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v but_o the_o classis_fw-la may_v err_v the_o provincial_n synod_n may_v err_v the_o national_n may_v err_v yea_o general_a council_n may_v err_v and_o so_o by_o this_o reason_n not_o synod_n nor_o general_a council_n may_v have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n but_o there_o may_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o they_o also_o these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o those_o very_a page_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n pretend_v to_o answer_n and_o disprove_v or_o confute_v but_o in_o stead_n of_o a_o confutation_n we_o see_v we_o have_v nothing_o but_o a_o plain_a confession_n or_o affirmation_n of_o his_o own_o that_o the_o thing_n be_v even_o so_o as_o be_v affirm_v by_o we_o before_o now_o why_o he_o shall_v make_v a_o show_n of_o take_v away_o or_o weak'n_a that_n which_o we_o have_v say_v and_o then_o in_o stead_n of_o accomplish_v what_o he_o undertake_v to_o do_v no_o more_o but_o only_o to_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n again_o which_o we_o have_v say_v before_o what_o reason_n i_o say_v he_o have_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o but_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o for_o the_o particular_a in_o hand_n the_o answer_n which_o he_o pretend_v to_o weaken_v be_v not_o yet_o weaken_v at_o all_o but_o rather_o strengthen_v and_o confirm_v by_o his_o apparent_a yield_v the_o cause_n and_o affirm_v the_o same_o that_o be_v before_o affirm_v by_o we_o but_o say_v he_o pag._n 316._o the_o true_a cause_n viz._n of_o appeal_n to_o high_a court_n be_v 1._o because_o they_o do_v not_o so_o frequent_o err_v 2._o they_o be_v not_o so_o incline_v and_o dispose_v to_o err_v for_o many_o eye_n see_v more_o than_o one_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n 3._o because_o we_o conceive_v more_o equality_n and_o less_o partiality_n in_o high_a court_n answ_n these_o three_o reason_n seem_v much_o what_o the_o same_o or_o to_o hang_v one_o upon_o another_o for_o therefore_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o they_o be_v not_o so_o dispose_v and_o incline_v to_o err_v and_o they_o be_v not_o so_o incline_v because_o they_o be_v more_o in_o number_n and_o because_o there_o be_v in_o they_o more_o equality_n and_o less_o partiality_n so_o that_o upon_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v but_o one_o reason_n viz._n because_o though_o they_o may_v err_v yet_o not_o so_o frequent_o and_o likely_a as_o the_o congregation_n yet_o be_v they_o three_o reason_n or_o be_v they_o but_o one_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o force_n there_o be_v in_o this_o saâ—ing_n to_o take_v away_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o a_o congregation_n and_o to_o establish_v the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o the_o same_o unto_o a_o synod_n for_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v be_v clear_v first_o of_o all_o it_o may_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o synod_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v then_o the_o presbytery_n of_o congregation_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o doubt_n be_v because_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o châ—â—st_n be_v not_o make_v mere_o to_o multitude_n or_o greatness_n of_o number_n but_o if_o they_o be_v but_o two_o or_o three_o gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n his_o promise_n be_v that_o he_o will_v be_v present_a in_o the_o midst_n of_o they_o math._n 18._o 20._o now_o the_o promise_n of_o his_o presence_n be_v to_o so_o small_a a_o number_n gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n be_v so_o gather_v though_o they_o be_v a_o lesser_a number_n than_o synod_n and_o counsel_n yet_o be_v partaker_n of_o the_o benefit_n of_o this_o promise_n for_o the_o preserve_n of_o they_o from_o error_n as_o well_o as_o those_o great_a assembly_n 〈…〉_z not_o but_o in_o multitude_n of_o counsellor_n there_o be_v safety_n nor_o do_v i_o doubt_v but_o synod_n and_o councilâ—_n gather_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n may_v expect_v the_o perâ—â—â—â—ance_n of_o this_o promise_n of_o our_o saviour_n presence_n but_o the_o thing_n i_o doubt_v of_o be_v this_o whether_o a_o congregationall_a church_n of_o saint_n furnish_v with_o a_o able_a and_o faithful_a presbytery_n for_o of_o such_o only_o do_v i_o speak_v may_v not_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o promise_n be_v as_o frequent_o preserve_v froâ—_n error_n as_o those_o great_a assembly_n of_o synod_n and_o council_n posito_fw-la that_o the_o synod_n and_o council_n do_v as_o frequent_o come_v together_o as_o the_o congregation_n do_v for_o otherwise_o i_o grant_v the_o synod_n meet_v more_o seldom_o may_v err_v more_o seldom_o but_o let_v the_o comparison_n be_v equal_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o time_n of_o assemble_v and_o come_v together_o and_o then_o i_o doubt_v whether_o synod_n 〈◊〉_d preserve_v from_o error_n any_o often_o than_o the_o forementioned_a lesser_a assembly_n it_o be_v well_o know_v what_o nâ—zianzen_n say_v of_o synod_n or_o council_n in_o his_o time_n viz._n that_o he_o have_v never_o see_v good_a and_o happy_a end_n of_o any_o of_o they_o and_o that_o evil_n be_v not_o so_o much_o redress_v as_o increase_v thereby_o epist_n ad_fw-la procopâ—um_fw-la quae_fw-la est_fw-la numere_fw-la 42._o refer_v whitak_n de_fw-fr concill_n q._n 1._o cap._n 3._o true_a it_o be_v nazianzen_n live_v as_o dr._n whiâ—â—â—_n observe_v pessimis_fw-la &_o turbulentissimia_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la temporibus_fw-la in_o very_o corrupt_a and_o troublesome_a titue_n when_o by_o reason_n that_o valens_n the_o emperor_n be_v averse_a from_o the_o truth_n heretic_n much_o prevail_v and_o corruption_n great_o increase_v and_o this_o may_v make_v the_o good_a man_n something_o more_o to_o dislike_v all_o council_n then_o there_o be_v cause_n nevertheless_o his_o word_n do_v apparent_o witness_v that_o in_o his_o time_n synod_n and_o council_n do_v not_o seldom_o err_v but_o very_o often_o so_o that_o he_o for_o his_o part_n have_v never_o see_v good_a that_o have_v come_v by_o any_o of_o they_o then_o which_o saying_n i_o suppose_v one_o will_v not_o speak_v more_o hardly_o of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o therefore_o by_o this_o testimony_n of_o his_o my_o doubt_n be_v increase_v whether_o the_o matter_n be_v in_o 〈…〉_z mr._n rutherford_n do_v say_v viz._n that_o synod_n and_o council_n do_v rariùs_fw-la erraâ—â—_n more_o seldom_o err_v then_o such_o a_o particular_a congregation_n as_o here_o i_o be_o speak_v of_o but_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o as_o he_o do_v affirm_v and_o i_o will_v not_o deny_v it_o only_o as_o i_o say_v i_o doubt_v of_o it_o yet_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o great_a matter_n he_o can_v gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o further_a of_o his_o purpose_n that_o there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n unto_o class_n and_o synod_n as_o unto_o high_a court_n for_o if_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n 〈◊〉_d
use_v 2._o he_o argue_v by_o analogy_n from_o that_o act_n 11._o where_o peter_n give_v account_n before_o the_o whole_a church_n even_o the_o church_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o therefore_o in_o like_a sort_n paul_n and_o barnabas_n may_v report_v before_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o faithful_a what_o thing_n god_n have_v do_v by_o they_o 3._o say_v he_o they_o make_v relation_n to_o that_o church_n which_o have_v send_v they_o forth_o with_o prayer_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o this_o church_n stand_v of_o all_o those_o who_o assemble_v to_o the_o public_a service_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o be_v clear_a act_v 13._o 2._o 4._o his_o four_o particular_a be_v this_o other_o place_n of_o act_n 15._o vers_fw-la 30._o where_o say_v he_o the_o people_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n be_v gather_v together_o to_o consider_v of_o decree_n send_v they_o by_o the_o apostle_n from_o jerusalem_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o all_o which_o we_o clear_o perceive_v the_o judgement_n of_o this_o worthy_a man_n to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o we_o and_o as_o clear_o against_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o can_v be_v express_v which_o be_v so_o and_o his_o judgement_n be_v deliver_v upon_o such_o reason_n as_o seem_v to_o i_o weighty_a and_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v not_o remove_v i_o therefore_o see_v no_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o think_v otherwise_o of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n then_o former_o for_o as_o for_o m._n rutherford_n his_o reason_n to_o prove_v the_o place_n act_v 14._o 27._o to_o be_v mean_v of_o a_o representative_a church_n viz._n that_o they_o meet_v for_o a_o matter_n of_o discipline_n at_o least_o for_o a_o matter_n that_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n to_o wit_n to_o know_v how_o god_n have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o say_v unto_o the_o gentile_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o do_v not_o evince_v the_o thing_n 1._o because_o rehearse_v how_o god_n have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o faith_n unto_o the_o gentile_n be_v neither_o admission_n of_o member_n nor_o of_o officer_n nor_o any_o matter_n of_o censure_n nor_o any_o thing_n else_o but_o only_o a_o mere_a declaration_n of_o the_o gracious_a work_n of_o the_o lord_n can_v be_v any_o matter_n of_o discipline_n as_o i_o conceive_v 2._o suppose_v it_o be_v a_o meeting_n for_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v it_o need_v be_v a_o meeting_n for_o elder_n alone_o without_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o faithful_a will_n mr._n rutherford_n deny_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o to_o be_v present_a at_o matter_n of_o discipline_n but_o only_o the_o elder_n i_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v it_o at_o all_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o have_v heretofore_o write_v otherways_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o where_o he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n and_o allege_v about_o 19_o or_o 20._o divine_v old_a and_o new_a for_o the_o same_o tenet_n now_o if_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n than_o the_o people_n must_v be_v present_a thereat_o for_o else_o they_o give_v their_o consent_n blindefold_a and_o if_o they_o must_v be_v present_a at_o such_o matter_n then_o suppose_v the_o matter_n mention_v in_o the_o scripture_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n have_v be_v of_o that_o nature_n yet_o the_o church_n that_o be_v gather_v together_o about_o the_o same_o need_v not_o to_o be_v a_o representative_a church_n of_o elder_n alone_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o may_v consist_v of_o the_o people_n also_o who_o by_o his_o own_o grant_n may_v be_v lawful_o present_a at_o such_o matter_n 3._o be_v it_o a_o matter_n of_o discipline_n or_o a_o matter_n that_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n or_o what_o else_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n when_o they_o be_v at_o jerusalem_n do_v declare_v such_o matter_n as_o here_o they_o do_v declare_v at_o antioch_n not_o only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n who_o he_o perhaps_o will_v make_v a_o representative_a church_n but_o also_o to_o a_o church_n beside_o they_o i_o mean_v beside_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n for_o so_o it_o be_v say_v act_v 15._o 4._o that_o at_o jerusâ—lem_n they_o be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n and_o declare_v all_o thing_n that_o god_n have_v do_v with_o they_o and_o vers_fw-la 12._o they_o declare_v to_o the_o multitude_n what_o miracle_n and_o wonder_n god_n have_v wrought_v among_o the_o gentile_n by_o they_o now_o if_o they_o declare_v these_o thing_n at_o jerusalem_n not_o only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n but_o to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o faithful_a also_o as_o the_o text_n say_v they_o do_v what_o reason_n can_v be_v render_v that_o the_o church_n which_o be_v gather_v together_o at_o antioch_n shall_v be_v only_o a_o representative_a church_n and_o that_o the_o people_n there_o be_v not_o present_a for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o it_o but_o that_o they_o may_v declare_v these_o thing_n to_o the_o brethren_n aâ—_n antioch_n as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o brethren_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o as_o well_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n as_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n at_o antioch_n and_o therefore_o since_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o at_o jerusalem_n they_o declare_v these_o thing_n to_o a_o church_n which_o consist_v of_o other_o beside_o apostle_n and_o elder_n the_o church_n at_o antioch_n to_o who_o they_o declare_v the_o same_o thing_n may_v be_v also_o a_o church_n of_o the_o like_a kind_n and_o not_o a_o representative_a church_n as_o our_o brother_n conceive_v it_o to_o be_v 4._o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o do_v declare_v to_o this_o church_n be_v such_o as_o that_o it_o be_v fit_a enough_o for_o the_o people_n to_o be_v acquaint_v therewith_o which_o the_o text_n mention_n in_o two_o clause_n first_o more_o general_o all_o that_o god_n have_v do_v with_o they_o second_o more_o special_o how_o he_o have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o faith_n to_o the_o gentile_n now_o suppose_v the_o people_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v in_o matter_n of_o judicature_n by_o way_n of_o power_n therein_o yet_o to_o be_v inform_v of_o other_o people_n conversion_n and_o how_o god_n bless_v the_o labour_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o that_o end_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o declare_v to_o this_o church_n these_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n but_o the_o people_n may_v be_v acquaint_v therewith_o for_o their_o comfort_n and_o that_o god_n may_v have_v praise_n from_o they_o all_o and_o therefore_o the_o church_n to_o who_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n declare_v these_o thing_n need_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o elder_n alone_o but_o may_v well_o enough_o be_v a_o church_n consist_v also_o of_o ordinary_a christian_n 5._o paul_n think_v it_o not_o unmeet_a to_o make_v know_v to_o all_o the_o corinthian_n the_o grace_n of_o god_n bestow_v on_o the_o church_n of_o macedonia_n 2_o cor._n 9_o 1_o 2._o and_o declare_v to_o they_o of_o macedonia_n the_o forwardness_n of_o the_o corinthian_n in_o the_o grace_n of_o liberality_n 2_o cor._n 9_o 2._o show_v the_o good_a that_o come_v hereby_o in_o that_o the_o example_n of_o god_n grace_n in_o some_o provoke_v many_o other_o to_o the_o like_a 2_o cor._n 9_o 2._o your_o zeal_n say_v he_o have_v provoke_v very_o many_o and_o likewise_o in_o that_o by_o this_o mean_n there_o redound_v many_o thanksgiving_n unto_o god_n vers_fw-la 12_o 13._o and_o if_o upon_o these_o and_o other_o good_a cause_n he_o do_v thus_o practice_n towards_o the_o christian_n of_o macedonia_n and_o achaia_n i_o know_v no_o good_a reason_n why_o he_o and_o barnabas_n shall_v deal_v otherwise_o with_o the_o christian_n at_o antioch_n and_o conceal_v from_o they_o the_o gracious_a work_n of_o god_n by_o their_o ministry_n among_o the_o gentile_n and_o make_v know_v the_o same_o only_a to_o a_o representative_a church_n of_o elder_n as_o for_o our_o brother_n answer_n to_o the_o other_o scripture_n act._n 15._o 30._o that_o the_o assemble_v of_o the_o multitude_n there_o speak_v of_o must_v be_v take_v distributive_o i_o conceive_v the_o text_n will_v not_o bear_v that_o exposition_n for_o the_o word_n be_v that_o they_o gather_v the_o multitude_n together_o then_o deliver_v the_o epistle_n now_o if_o this_o multitude_n be_v gather_v together_o not_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o diverse_a how_o can_v the_o epistle_n be_v but_o one_o be_v deliver_v to_o they_o all_o can_v one_o epistle_n be_v deliver_v to_o sundry_a or_o several_a assembly_n at_o one_o time_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v not_o possible_a except_o we_o shall_v imagine_v there_o be_v sundry_a copy_n one_o to_o be_v
one_o word_n of_o prophesy_v in_o divers_a assembly_n at_o the_o same_o time_n but_o that_o they_o be_v so_o to_o prophesy_v that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v to_o be_v hearer_n and_o learner_n as_o well_o as_o speaker_n which_o do_v plain_o imply_v that_o there_o must_v be_v many_o prophet_n in_o one_o assembly_n at_o once_o again_o upon_o verse_n â—9_n he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o place_n quamvis_fw-la forte_fw-fr multi_fw-la suit_n in_o ecclesiae_fw-la vestra_fw-la prophetae_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v although_o perhaps_o there_o be_v many_o prophet_n in_o your_o church_n yet_o it_o will_v be_v sufficient_a if_o two_o or_o three_o do_v speak_v at_o one_o meeting_n and_o for_o other_o it_o shall_v be_v their_o duty_n to_o judge_v that_o be_v to_o say_v to_o examine_v and_o try_v whether_o these_o thing_n be_v true_a and_o sound_a which_o be_v speak_v by_o they_o that_o speak_v wherein_o he_o plain_o show_v his_o judgement_n to_o be_v that_o at_o one_o meeting_n they_o be_v to_o have_v many_o prophet_n present_a of_o who_o two_n or_o three_o only_o be_v to_o speak_v and_o the_o rest_n to_o try_v and_o examine_v what_o be_v speak_v and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n he_o speak_v upon_o verse_n 32._o which_o he_o count_v to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o judge_v verse_n 29._o further_o these_o word_n verse_n 23._o of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o into_o one_o place_n he_o expound_v thus_o alicujus_fw-la loci_fw-la totus_fw-la populus_fw-la fidelis_fw-la that_o be_v all_o the_o faithful_a or_o believe_a people_n of_o a_o place_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o will_v not_o have_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o be_v the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v final_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n verse_n 24._o if_o all_o prophecy_n he_o have_v these_o word_n nec_fw-la omnes_fw-la inteligit_fw-la absoluté_fw-fr etc._n etc._n that_o be_v the_o apostle_n understand_v not_o all_o absolute_o but_o to_o this_o sense_n to_o wit_n if_o all_o that_o speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o church_n do_v prophesy_v that_o be_v if_o prophet_n only_o do_v speak_v and_o they_o that_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n do_v hold_v their_o peace_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o understand_v the_o text_n so_o that_o they_o be_v all_o to_o prophesy_v at_o one_o time_n and_o because_o at_o one_o meeting_n there_o be_v but_o two_o or_o three_o to_o prophecy_n which_o two_o or_o three_o he_o think_v can_v not_o be_v all_o he_o will_v therefore_o have_v it_o that_o they_o be_v distribute_v into_o several_a assembly_n and_o so_o do_v prophesy_v all_o at_o once_o though_o only_o two_o or_o three_o at_o one_o meeting_n for_o which_o interpretation_n though_o he_o allege_v estius_n yet_o estius_n we_o see_v afford_v he_o no_o help_n at_o all_o whereupon_o i_o have_v marvel_v why_o estius_n shall_v be_v allege_v sometime_o think_v with_o myself_o whether_o his_o name_n may_v not_o be_v misprinted_n by_o the_o printer_n instead_o of_o some_o other_o man_n sometime_o think_v whether_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o memory_n may_v not_o fail_v he_o in_o this_o particular_a have_v read_v the_o thing_n in_o some_o other_o author_n and_o suppose_v it_o have_v be_v in_o estius_n but_o what_o ever_o may_v be_v the_o reason_n of_o this_o mistake_n he_o that_o shall_v examine_v estius_n will_v not_o find_v in_o he_o any_o help_n at_o all_o for_o mr._n rutherford_n cause_n in_o this_o particular_a but_o the_o contrary_n the_o text_n say_v express_o verse_n 29_o that_o at_o one_o time_n they_o prophesy_v but_o two_o or_o three_o answer_n this_o be_v a_o mistake_n also_o for_o the_o word_n be_v let_v the_o prophet_n speak_v two_o or_o three_o and_o let_v the_o other_o judge_n now_o let_v they_o do_v so_o do_v not_o show_v their_o practice_n but_o their_o duty_n not_o what_o they_o do_v but_o what_o they_o shall_v have_v do_v the_o text_n say_v if_o there_o be_v no_o interpreter_n let_v he_o that_o have_v a_o unknown_a tongue_n keep_v silence_n in_o the_o church_n verse_n 20._o and_o let_v your_o woman_n keep_v silence_n in_o the_o church_n verse_n 34._o now_o shall_v any_o man_n say_v that_o these_o text_n do_v express_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v the_o manner_n of_o their_o woman_n and_o of_o their_o man_n that_o have_v unknown_a tongue_n to_o keep_v silence_n i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v say_v it_o the_o word_n be_v not_o a_o report_n of_o what_o their_o practice_n be_v but_o a_o rule_n of_o direction_n to_o show_v they_o how_o they_o ought_v to_o practice_v and_o so_o we_o say_v of_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n but_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o their_o duty_n but_o also_o their_o practice_n to_o prophesy_v at_o one_o meet_v but_o only_o two_o or_o three_o what_o can_v master_n rutherford_n gain_v hereby_o his_o word_n follow_v do_v tell_v we_o where_o he_o say_v if_o two_o only_a prophesy_v at_o one_o assembly_n as_o this_o text_n will_v warrant_v clear_o answ_n not_o so_o the_o text_n allow_v three_o which_o be_v more_o than_o two_o only_a but_o go_v on_o and_o let_v we_o hear_v the_o consequence_n then_o how_o do_v this_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o the_o believer_n at_o corinth_n as_o be_v suppose_v by_o our_o brethren_n convince_v the_o infidel_n so_o as_o it_o may_v bear_v this_o sense_n he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o can_v two_o prophet_n be_v all_o prophet_n answ_n though_o we_o suppose_v the_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o the_o believer_n at_o corinth_n yet_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v convince_v the_o the_o infidel_n this_o we_o never_o say_v nor_o suppose_v at_o all_o for_o we_o suppose_v and_o so_o do_v still_o that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v convince_v only_o by_o the_o prophet_n beside_o who_o there_o be_v many_o other_o that_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o for_o his_o demand_n whether_o two_o prophet_n can_v be_v all_o prophet_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o though_o two_o be_v not_o all_o where_o there_o be_v more_o than_o two_o yet_o if_o there_o be_v no_o more_o there_o it_o be_v otherwise_o and_o so_o where_o there_o be_v but_o two_o or_o three_o that_o do_v prophecy_n at_o one_o meeting_n there_o he_o that_o be_v convince_v by_o those_o two_o or_o three_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o that_o be_v of_o all_o that_o do_v prophesy_v this_o sense_n of_o the_o place_n must_v needs_o be_v receive_v else_o how_o shall_v the_o apostle_n word_n be_v reconcile_v and_o stand_v together_o for_o as_o in_o one_o verse_n he_o require_v that_o the_o prophet_n speak_v two_o or_o three_o at_o one_o meeting_n and_o the_o rest_n to_o judge_n verse_n 29._o and_o in_o another_o verse_n affirm_v that_o the_o infidel_n in_o the_o case_n there_o propose_v be_v judge_v of_o all_o verse_n 24._o so_o he_o do_v not_o only_o suppose_v in_o the_o very_a same_o verse_n that_o they_o do_v all_o prophecy_n if_o all_o prophecy_n say_v he_o and_o there_o come_v in_o one_o that_o believe_v not_o etc._n etc._n but_o moreover_o in_o verse_n 31._o he_o express_o and_o plain_o allow_v they_o thus_o to_o prophesy_v you_o may_v all_o prophecy_n say_v he_o one_o by_o one_o that_o all_o may_v learn_v and_o all_o may_v be_v comfort_v which_o place_v compare_v do_v evince_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n here_o give_v and_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o what_o he_o say_v verse_n 24._o of_o the_o infidel_n be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o may_v be_v true_o make_v good_a if_o he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o that_o prophesy_v at_o that_o meeting_n though_o their_o number_n that_o so_o prophesy_v be_v no_o more_o but_o two_o or_o three_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o conclude_v sure_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v it_o must_v unavoidable_o be_v say_v that_o they_o prophesy_v distributive_o and_o in_o several_a congregation_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v at_o all_o but_o may_v be_v avoid_v with_o â—ase_n and_o the_o contrary_n may_v be_v safe_o hold_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o proâ—â—â—cied_v collective_o and_o in_o one_o congregation_n for_o first_o they_o do_v so_o prophesy_v that_o one_o that_o believe_v not_o and_o one_o unlearned_a might_n come_v in_o among_o they_o when_o they_o be_v prophesy_v and_o by_o that_o mean_n may_v be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o verse_n 24._o which_o may_v well_o be_v do_v if_o they_o prophesy_v all_o in_o one_o congregation_n but_o otherwise_o it_o can_v not_o for_o as_o much_o as_o one_o unbeliever_n can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o several_a congregation_n at_o once_o second_o they_o be_v so_o to_o prophesy_v that_o the_o
have_v take_v thing_n upon_o my_o report_n upon_o trust_n and_o partly_o that_o my_o candid_a and_o fair_a deal_n with_o the_o author_n who_o i_o have_v to_o do_v withal_o may_v the_o better_o appear_v for_o when_o a_o man_n word_n be_v not_o keep_v but_o forsake_v and_o other_o substitute_v in_o their_o place_n his_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v soon_o be_v mistake_v and_o represent_v amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n which_o be_v a_o practice_n that_o i_o have_v often_o see_v but_o never_o approve_v and_o therefore_o i_o have_v not_o use_v it_o for_o i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o wrong_v any_o man_n special_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_a as_o i_o take_v master_n rutherfurd_n to_o be_v by_o impute_v to_o he_o what_o he_o do_v not_o teach_v nor_o deliver_v and_o for_o this_o cause_n it_o be_v that_o i_o have_v usual_o transcribe_v and_o express_v his_o own_o word_n and_o by_o this_o mean_v my_o book_n be_v grow_v to_o the_o great_a bulk_n one_o thing_n more_o i_o will_v advertise_v the_o reader_n of_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v quick_o have_v do_v the_o figure_n from_o 185_o and_o so_o forward_o note_v the_o number_n of_o the_o page_n in_o master_n rutherfurd_n his_o treatise_n be_v set_v down_o twice_o therein_o once_o in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o again_o after_o the_o page_n 484._o wherefore_o if_o any_o of_o these_o page_n be_v quote_v in_o this_o reply_n as_o some_o of_o they_o be_v if_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v allege_v be_v not_o find_v in_o the_o page_n that_o be_v name_v look_v for_o it_o in_o the_o other_o place_n of_o the_o book_n where_o be_v the_o same_o figure_n and_o there_o you_o may_v find_v it_o courteous_a reader_n study_v the_o truth_n in_o a_o way_n of_o piety_n and_o peace_n be_v zealous_a for_o it_o but_o lose_v not_o love_v to_o the_o saint_n beware_v when_o the_o world_n be_v fill_v with_o dispute_n about_o discipline_n that_o thou_o be_v not_o draw_v only_o to_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o main_a matter_n of_o doctrine_n be_v sure_a to_o practice_v and_o express_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o humility_n of_o mind_n mortification_n of_o thy_o own_o corruption_n faith_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o love_n to_o all_o his_o redeem_v and_o be_v not_o by_o any_o mean_v draw_v away_o from_o these_o thing_n which_o do_v so_o main_o conduce_v to_o thy_o salvation_n final_o as_o the_o holy_a ghost_n say_v phil._n 4._o 8_o 9_o whatsoever_o thing_n be_v true_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v honest_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v just_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v lovely_a pure_a and_o of_o good_a report_n if_o there_o be_v any_o virtue_n if_o there_o be_v any_o praise_n think_v on_o these_o thing_n and_o do_v they_o and_o the_o god_n of_o peace_n shall_v be_v with_o thou_o improve_v i_o pray_v such_o interest_n as_o thou_o have_v in_o god_n through_o the_o mediator_n by_o afford_v the_o help_n of_o thy_o prayer_n for_o i_o who_o be_o true_o desirous_a of_o thy_o salvation_n r._n m._n decemb._n 10._o 1646._o a_o table_n of_o the_o content_n of_o the_o ensue_a treatise_n chap._n 1._o of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr_n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o must_v not_o be_v appeal_n to_o general_n counsel_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v not_o yet_o deny_v page_n 2._o chap._n 2._o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advite_v and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v page_n 11._o chap._n 3._o of_o the_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 15._o chap._n 4._o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o page_n 21._o chap._n 5._o again_o of_o that_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n page_n 24._o chap._n 6._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n page_n 30._o chap._n 7._o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v page_n 39_o chap._n 8._o whether_o antioch_n acts._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n page_n 49._o chap._n 9_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o page_n 66._o chap._n 10._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a minestry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n page_n 75._o chap._n 11._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n page_n 93_o chap._n 12._o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr_n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congregation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_n or_o national_n council_n page_n 104._o chap._n 13._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o page_n 112._o chap._n 14._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v one_o church_n meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n etc._n etc._n do_v make_v for_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o for_o one_o only_a page_n 123._o chap._n 15._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n baynes_n whether_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 137._o chap._n 16._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o acts._n 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30._o do_v not_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 140._o chap._n 17._o whether_o or_o no_o liberty_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o people_n but_o woman_n must_v exercise_v the_o same_o as_o well_o as_o man_n and_o of_o the_o people_n liberty_n about_o ordination_n or_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n page_n 146._o chap._n 18._o of_o mr_n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n page_n 151._o chap._n 19_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o be_v do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n page_n 153._o chap._n 20._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o
circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
even_o as_o a_o king_n ignorant_a of_o necessary_a civil_a duty_n can_v command_v they_o not_o because_o he_o want_v kingly_a power_n to_o command_v these_o civil_a thing_n for_o undeniable_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n in_o civil_a thing_n but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v in_o like_a sort_n though_o a_o church_n want_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o some_o particular_a question_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o church_n power_n to_o determine_v such_o question_n &_o to_o command_v obedience_n therein_o and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n they_o can_v in_o that_o state_n determine_v right_o because_o they_o will_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n therein_o not_o because_o they_o want_v church-power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n but_o because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o they_o again_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o p._n he_o tell_v we_o that_o christianity_n add_v no_o new_a fatherly_a power_n to_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a husband_n right_a to_o the_o husband_n once_o a_o heathen_a over_o his_o wife_n for_o a_o heathen_a father_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n as_o a_o christian_a father_n and_o a_o heathen_a husband_n a_o heathen_a master_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o as_o essential_o husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v the_o christian_a husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o say_v soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o particular_a question_n add_v no_o new_a church_n power_n to_o a_o christian_a church_n over_o their_o own_o member_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a church_n right_a over_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o for_o a_o church_n that_o want_v such_o knowledge_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o church_n invest_v with_o church_n power_n over_o her_o member_n as_o be_v another_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v the_o case_n be_v alike_o and_o if_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n do_v not_o give_v to_o a_o church_n their_o church-right_a in_o this_o or_o that_o question_n how_o can_v want_v of_o that_o knowledge_n deprive_v they_o of_o that_o right_a sure_o one_o will_v think_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n may_v do_v as_o much_o for_o the_o add_v of_o kingly_a right_n fatherly_a right_n husband_n right_a etc._n etc._n as_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a question_n for_o the_o add_v of_o church_n right_a &_o that_o the_o want_n of_o all_o christianity_n shall_v be_v as_o available_a for_o take_v away_o the_o kingly_a right_n the_o fatherly_a right_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o want_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a point_n for_o the_o take_z away_o of_o church-right_a and_o since_o we_o have_v our_o brother_n own_o testimony_n clear_a and_o full_a for_o the_o one_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o the_o case_n be_v so_o parallel_a and_o proportionable_a that_o the_o other_o be_v unavoidable_a i_o mean_v thus_o since_o in_o the_o one_o case_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n do_v not_o give_v power_n nor_o the_o want_n thereof_o take_v away_o the_o same_o by_o our_o brother_n own_o teach_n i_o know_v not_o how_o in_o the_o other_o case_n soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a question_n shall_v give_v power_n or_o right_n &_o want_v of_o such_o knowledge_n take_v away_o the_o same_o and_o so_o for_o antioch_n in_o particular_a if_o it_o be_v as_o our_o brother_n suppose_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o do_v hold_v against_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o church_n right_a which_o they_o have_v before_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o the_o truth_n this_o say_n i_o confess_v be_v very_o true_a but_o do_v not_o suffice_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o bring_v it_o viz._n to_o prove_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n or_o hold_v against_o the_o truth_n therein_o do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o church_n right_a to_o determine_v for_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v against_o that_o power_n in_o heathen_a king_n parent_n and_o husband_n to_o govern_v their_o subject_n child_n and_o wife_n which_o our_o brother_n as_o we_o hear_v afore_o have_v grant_v and_o teach_v for_o suppose_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o particular_a be_v it_o not_o clear_a that_o the_o king_n parent_n and_o husband_n mention_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o many_o more_o matter_n and_o it_o antioch_n do_v hereupon_o loose_v their_o right_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n â—he_v king_n and_o the_o other_o mention_a must_v likewise_o lose_v their_o right_n to_o govern_v their_o own_o subject_n and_o family_n for_o the_o lord_n give_v no_o right_a i_o hope_v to_o pagan_n against_o the_o truth_n no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v unto_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o reason_n be_v valid_a and_o strong_a in_o the_o one_o case_n and_o for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o our_o brother_n bring_v it_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v as_o strong_a in_o the_o other_o case_n also_o which_o shall_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o brother_n himself_o do_v teach_v in_o a_o word_n churches_n and_o antioch_n in_o particular_a have_v right_a to_o determine_v question_n and_o they_o ought_v to_o determine_v only_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n they_o have_v formal_o a_o right_a to_o determine_v and_o when_o their_o determination_n be_v according_a to_o truth_n than_o they_o will_v â—ind_v vi_o matâ—â—iâ—_n which_o else_o they_o will_v not_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v in_o fore_n humano_fw-la and_o if_o their_o determination_n be_v for_o matter_n agreeable_a to_o truth_n they_o will_v be_v ratify_v in_o foro_fw-la diuâ—â—o_fw-la but_o not_o else_o now_o our_o brother_n argue_v do_v seem_v to_o confound_v these_o two_o and_o because_o of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v free_o grant_v he_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o former_a which_o we_o think_v be_v not_o good_a reason_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_n do_v still_o think_v that_o though_o church_n ought_v to_o give_v out_o no_o determination_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o truth_n and_o that_o otherwise_o their_o determination_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o will_v not_o bind_v before_o god_n yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o may_v have_v right_a formal_o and_o in_o foro_n humano_fw-la to_o judge_n and_o to_o determine_v of_o such_o thing_n moreover_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v for_o true_a that_o antioch_n when_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o right_n to_o determine_v controversy_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o hereby_o much_o near_o to_o a_o issue_n unless_o it_o be_v determine_v withal_o who_o must_v be_v judge_n whether_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o no_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v be_v grant_v that_o they_o do_v not_o lose_v their_o right_n at_o all_o the_o question_n therefore_o still_o remain_v who_o have_v this_o ministerial_a power_n to_o judge_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o church_n antioch_n or_o any_o other_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o for_o it_o and_o unless_o this_o be_v clear_v we_o be_v but_o where_o we_o be_v before_o but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o end_n of_o this_o passage_n about_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n whether_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v controversy_n when_o ability_n fail_v or_o whether_o they_o do_v when_o lose_v that_o right_n i_o will_v here_o transcribe_v a_o few_o word_n of_o our_o brother_n as_o i_o find_v they_o in_o his_o second_o 331._o page_n wherein_o he_o either_o clear_o yield_v the_o cause_n and_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v or_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v the_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o ability_n to_o judge_v and_o right_a or_o power_n to_o judge_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o he_o dispute_v in_o six_o page_n together_o to_o prove_v antioch_n such_o a_o one_o page_n 470._o 471._o etc._n etc._n sequ_o may_v have_v right_a jus_o and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n to_o judge_v of_o a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o want_v ability_n therefore_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la it_o belong_v to_o a_o high_a synod_n where_o more_o learned_a man_n be_v though_o the_o jure_v the_o presbytery_n may_v judge_v it_o these_o word_n i_o wish_v to_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o
reason_n which_o do_v show_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o be_v very_o unlike_a the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cruse_n and_o they_o have_v none_o be_v to_o show_v ourselves_o very_o irrational_a or_o worse_o end_v why_o our_o brother_n shall_v put_v such_o a_o thing_n upon_o we_o we_o be_v no_o way_n guilty_a thereof_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o reason_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o our_o own_o conclusion_n to_o which_o we_o do_v and_o do_v apply_v it_o and_o not_o to_o this_o other_o express_v by_o our_o brother_n which_o indeed_o be_v none_o of_o we_o and_o then_o we_o be_v content_v that_o rational_a and_o judicious_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o or_o no_o there_o be_v any_o sufficient_a weight_n therein_o which_o that_o they_o may_v more_o ready_o do_v i_o have_v here_o recollect_v the_o same_o into_o this_o short_a sum_n that_o they_o may_v brief_o behold_v it_o with_o one_o view_n viz_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o far_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v more_o convenient_a and_o near_o at_o hand_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o again_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o synod_n among_o our_o brethren_n be_v the_o same_o than_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o defective_a as_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o both_o the_o assumption_n in_o all_o the_o branch_n thereof_o i_o conceive_v be_v clear_o prove_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o page_n which_o our_o brother_n do_v allege_v and_o whether_o the_o consequence_n be_v good_a let_v the_o wise_a judge_n have_v thus_o reduce_v our_o argumentation_n to_o its_o own_o proper_a and_o genuine_a shape_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v thereto_o first_o say_v he_o the_o speediness_n of_o end_v controversy_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v bad_o comprise_v with_o the_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n of_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n without_o so_o much_o as_o ask_v advise_v of_o any_o class_n of_o elder_n and_o with_o decide_v question_n deep_a and_o grave_a which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o be_v a_o put_n of_o a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n answ_n if_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n may_v be_v have_v we_o never_o speak_v word_n for_o do_v weighty_a matter_n without_o the_o same_o but_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v both_o our_o practice_n and_o advise_v to_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o this_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n in_o way_n of_o temerity_n or_o rashness_n touch_v not_o we_o who_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v other_o wise_a as_o for_o suddenness_n i_o conceive_v if_o the_o same_o be_v sometime_o accompany_v with_o temerity_n and_o rashness_n and_o so_o worthy_a to_o be_v blame_v yet_o not_o always_o for_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o day_n of_o hezekiah_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v sudden_o 2_o chron._n 29._o 36._o where_o suddenness_n do_v not_o signify_v any_o sinful_a temerity_n or_o râ—shnesle_n but_o contrary_o do_v testify_v god_n great_a goodnesle_n that_o have_v so_o prepare_v the_o people_n to_o so_o good_a a_o work_n for_o this_o cause_n this_o suddenness_n be_v to_o hezekiah_n and_o god_n people_n a_o occasion_n and_o ground_n of_o great_a joy_n and_o gladness_n which_o temerity_n can_v not_o have_v be_v and_o therefore_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n must_v not_o always_o be_v confound_v and_o couple_v together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o same_o though_o hasty_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n without_o due_a consideration_n be_v not_o good_a yet_o overlong_o delay_v of_o due_a proceed_n against_o delinquent_n be_v bad_a also_o for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o because_o sentence_v against_o a_o evil_a work_n be_v not_o execute_v speedy_o therefore_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n be_v full_o set_v to_o do_v evil_a eccl._n 8._o 11._o for_o which_o cause_n execute_v judgement_n in_o the_o morning_n that_o be_v to_o say_v speedy_o be_v sometime_o express_o require_v jer._n 21._o 12._o which_o be_v speak_v of_o justice_n to_o be_v execute_v by_o civil_a authority_n do_v hold_v by_o proportion_n and_o like_a reason_n in_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n for_o as_o much_o as_o speedinesle_n be_v a_o duty_n and_o delay_n be_v daangerous_a in_o the_o one_o case_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o whereas_o our_o author_n think_v much_o that_o excommunication_n shall_v proceed_v upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n as_o we_o know_v nothing_o but_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v more_o elder_n than_o the_o three_o if_o god_n provide_v they_o fit_a man_n and_o the_o numerousnesse_n of_o the_o congregation_n so_o require_v in_o which_o case_n our_o author_n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v so_o if_o they_o have_v but_o three_o we_o know_v nothing_o in_o this_o but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v notwithstanding_o since_o himself_o teach_v due_a right_n page_n 61._o that_o the_o jew_n have_v their_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o have_v and_o have_v their_o meeting_n in_o their_o synagogue_n not_o only_o for_o doctrine_n but_o also_o for_o discipline_n and_o excommunication_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v there_o may_v be_v excommunication_n by_o as_o small_a a_o number_n as_o three_o unless_o it_o can_v appear_v that_o in_o every_o synagogue_n the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n in_o it_o be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o be_v here_o mention_v which_o be_v more_o than_o i_o do_v remember_v to_o be_v express_v in_o scripture_n yea_o and_o further_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o inferior_a judicature_n in_o israel_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n page_n 315._o now_o the_o judge_n in_o these_o inferior_a judicature_n though_o they_o must_v never_o be_v under_o that_o number_n of_o three_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o always_o exceed_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v appear_v and_o if_o three_o judge_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n with_o three_o elder_n have_v power_n of_o excommunication_n moreover_o in_o his_o page_n 454._o he_o give_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o proposition_n that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n to_o which_o those_o word_n do_v also_o agree_v page_n 287._o viz._n the_o power_n and_o right_a to_o discipline_n be_v a_o propriety_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n and_o be_v not_o remove_v from_o it_o till_o god_n remove_v the_o candlestick_n and_o the_o church_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o page_n 302._o he_o afford_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o assumption_n that_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o hence_o the_o conclusion_n be_v obvious_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o it_o own_o member_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n may_v exercise_v such_o jurisdiction_n this_o conclusion_n our_o author_n can_v deny_v in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o necessary_o and_o direct_o follow_v from_o premise_n which_o be_v both_o his_o own_o yea_o in_o his_o page_n 302._o hâ—_n say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o church_n policy_n that_o every_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o it_o be_v ordinary_a beside_o that_o such_o a_o say_n sound_v harsh_o and_o seem_v very_o improbable_a we_o shall_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v case_n extraordinary_a to_o be_v very_o frequent_a &_o usual_a in_o as_o much_o as_o all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v very_o usual_a for_o congregationall_a church_n to_o have_v neighbour_n and_o so_o if_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o will_v follow_v that_o extraorninary_a power_n be_v very_o usual_a and_o frequent_a so_o that_o inconvenience_n on_o each_o side_n do_v seem_v inevitable_o to_o follow_v against_o our_o brother_n cause_n upon_o this_o which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a but_o let_v we_o here_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o subsequent_a word_n why_o this_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o it_o flow_v say_v he_o continual_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
and_o that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o church_n now_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n page_n 302._o second_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n page_n 302._o three_o where_o consociation_n be_v not_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n page_n 338._o four_o that_o in_o such_o case_n viz._n when_o a_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o they_o have_v the_o word_n preach_v and_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a page_n 454._o five_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n ibid._n six_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n ibid._n seven_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n ibid._n such_o say_n as_o these_o himself_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o page_n and_o place_n here_o cite_v and_o in_o the_o word_n and_o term_n here_o express_v and_o therefore_o from_o these_o he_o can_v clear_v himself_o and_o if_o from_o these_o the_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v just_o be_v deduce_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v and_o have_v above_o manifest_v it_o will_v then_o but_o little_o avail_v he_o to_o wash_v his_o hand_n from_o the_o stain_n of_o that_o other_o absurd_a say_n afore_o mention_v which_o no_o man_n that_o i_o know_v do_v charge_n he_o withal_o for_o as_o long_o as_o these_o other_o say_n do_v stand_v unrecal_v so_o long_o we_o have_v clear_a ground_n from_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o word_n for_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o every_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o our_o own_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n add_v to_o a_o other_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o word_n be_v a_o auxiliary_a power_n and_o no_o way_n destructive_a to_o that_o power_n to_o which_o it_o be_v add_v indeed_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v destructive_a of_o that_o power_n and_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v so_o because_o christ_n never_o give_v any_o such_o power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n answ_n here_o our_o brother_n speak_v of_o two_o case_n first_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o second_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_a but_o beside_o these_o there_o be_v a_o three_o case_n which_o have_v need_v to_o be_v consider_v also_o viz._n a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o which_o may_v be_v the_o case_n when_o the_o power_n of_o classis_fw-la be_v add_v to_o a_o congregation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a but_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v in_o the_o right_n and_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o wrong_n now_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v or_o do_v in_o this_o â—ase_n shall_v the_o congregation_n now_o have_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o its_o power_n or_o shall_v it_o not_o to_o say_v yea_o will_v satisfy_v the_o mind_n of_o many_o if_o the_o congregation_n themselves_o may_v be_v judge_n that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o right_n or_o if_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v thereof_o and_o to_o say_v no_o and_o that_o the_o power_n must_v still_o be_v in_o this_o err_a classis_fw-la be_v to_o subject_a righteousness_n to_o wickedness_n and_o truth_n to_o falsehood_n and_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o maintain_v such_o power_n in_o a_o compound_n or_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la for_o in_o page_n 335._o speak_v of_o this_o very_a case_n and_o the_o great_a presbytery_n be_v wrong_a in_o their_o voice_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v right_a and_o have_v the_o best_a in_o judge_v of_o a_o case_n before_o they_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o power_n which_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbytery_n exercise_v be_v not_o of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o jure_v the_o power_n of_o the_o great_a presbytery_n in_o this_o case_n ought_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o of_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregation_n though_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n now_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o as_o uncertain_a as_o before_o and_o still_o we_o be_v to_o seek_v where_o the_o power_n of_o censure_n or_o jurisdiction_n do_v final_o reside_v for_o in_o the_o one_o place_n our_o brother_n tell_v we_o christ_n never_o give_v power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o the_o like_a of_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o great_a presbytery_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o any_o church_n to_o err_v by_o which_o say_n we_o be_v leave_v at_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o still_o the_o question_n will_v be_v whether_o the_o congregation_n do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o so_o whether_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v of_o this_o we_o be_v still_o but_o where_o we_o be_v and_o no_o near_o a_o issue_n then_o before_o this_o indeed_o be_v most_o true_a and_o must_v be_v so_o acknowledge_v that_o though_o the_o lord_n almighty_n have_v give_v a_o power_n unto_o society_n whether_o they_o be_v family_n commonwealth_n or_o church_n and_o have_v make_v sundry_a of_o they_o subordinate_a to_o none_o other_o the_o like_a society_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o power_n but_o to_o have_v supremacy_n of_o power_n within_o themselves_o yet_o he_o have_v also_o give_v they_o just_a and_o holy_a rule_n in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o direct_n of_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o power_n from_o which_o rule_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o swerve_v or_o go_v astray_o but_o if_o they_o do_v it_o will_v be_v sin_n unto_o they_o and_o he_o will_v sure_o require_v it_o of_o they_o but_o now_o between_o these_o two_o the_o power_n itself_o and_o the_o abuse_n or_o right_a use_n of_o the_o power_n we_o must_v careful_o distinguish_v for_o though_o abuse_n of_o their_o power_n be_v not_o give_v of_o god_n from_o who_o come_v nothing_o but_o good_a yet_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v good_a be_v give_v of_o he_o and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o though_o abuse_v of_o their_o power_n do_v just_o deserve_v at_o his_o hand_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n itself_o yeâ—_n god_n do_v not_o always_o forthwith_o deal_v with_o man_n according_a to_o their_o desert_n herein_o but_o many_o time_n continue_v still_o to_o they_o their_o power_n though_o they_o have_v abuse_v the_o same_o much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v other_o to_o deprive_v they_o of_o this_o power_n because_o of_o every_o abuse_n thereon_o witness_n among_o other_o the_o example_n of_o the_o pagan_a prince_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n who_o through_o their_o ignorance_n infidelity_n pride_n and_o other_o sin_n can_v not_o but_o in_o great_a measure_n abuse_v their_o authority_n and_o yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n command_v the_o christian_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a thereunto_o rom._n 13._o 1_o 2._o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v 3._o 1._o not_o to_o obey_v they_o indeed_o in_o do_v evil_a at_o their_o command_n for_o in_o such_o case_n they_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o than_o man_n as_o act_n 5._o 29._o yet_o still_o they_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o power_n either_o active_o or_o passive_o even_o then_o when_o the_o power_n be_v sinful_o abuse_v even_o so_o if_o a_o family_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o family_n may_v lawful_o for_o this_o cause_n take_v away_o their_o power_n from_o they_o or_o if_o a_o corporation_n shall_v so_o offend_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o corporation_n may_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o power_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o church_n or_o how_o will_v it_o follow_v if_o a_o church_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n
judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n there_o can_v be_v no_o ceremony_n or_o type_n in_o this_o next_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o the_o same_o reverend_a author_n in_o his_o page_n 10_o which_o be_v also_o allege_a in_o the_o forementioned_a place_n of_o the_o answer_n where_o the_o word_n be_v these_o what_o if_o a_o brother_n offend_v not_o a_o particular_a brother_n but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n what_o if_o ten_o brethren_n offend_v the_o whole_a or_o part_n shall_v we_o think_v the_o offence_n fall_v not_o within_o our_o saviour_n reme_v or_o complaint_n or_o appeal_v here_o that_o the_o offend_a party_n be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n the_o sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n in_o which_o place_n we_o see_v it_o be_v plain_a yet_o this_o reverend_a author_n count_v it_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n shall_v be_v judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n and_o that_o it_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n that_o the_o party_n offend_v shall_v be_v sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v yea_o it_o be_v the_o more_o marvellous_a inasmuch_o as_o both_o these_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_n be_v express_o mention_v in_o that_o very_a page_n of_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v dispute_v against_o and_o therefore_o it_o he_o have_v not_o remember_v that_o himself_o have_v read_v the_o same_o in_o mr_n herle_v as_o like_o enough_o he_o have_v yet_o find_v the_o same_o allege_a by_o we_o in_o that_o scripture_n of_o ouâ—s_n it_o be_v marvel_v he_o will_v not_o turn_v to_o the_o place_n allege_v to_o search_v and_o see_v whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o no_o afore_o he_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o whereas_o on_o the_o contrary_a whether_o he_o search_v or_o search_v not_o this_o we_o see_v that_o he_o roundly_o affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v to_o which_o saying_n i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o assent_v our_o eye_n have_v so_o plain_o see_v and_o read_v the_o direct_a contrary_n yea_o and_o further_o it_o be_v yet_o more_o marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v thus_o write_v consider_v not_o only_o what_o have_v be_v already_o say_v but_o also_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o i_o will_v mention_v a_o few_o of_o his_o own_o say_n and_o then_o himself_o shall_v be_v â—udge_n whether_o the_o thing_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v by_o he_o advise_o and_o well_o speak_v in_o his_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 218_o he_o have_v these_o word_n when_o the_o grecian_a church_n offend_v the_o hebrew_n church_n the_o hebrew_n church_n can_v complain_v to_o the_o grecian_a church_n for_o the_o law_n forbid_v the_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n and_o what_o law_n he_o mean_v may_v be_v perceive_v by_o his_o word_n in_o page_n 208._o of_o the_o same_o treatise_n where_o he_o say_v if_o one_o man_n be_v wrong_v and_o see_v truth_n suffer_v by_o partiality_n the_o law_n of_o nature_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o appeal_v to_o a_o assembly_n where_o there_o be_v more_o light_n and_o great_a authority_n as_o the_o weak_a may_v fly_v to_o the_o strong_a now_o let_v himself_o be_v judge_n whether_o in_o these_o testimony_n compare_v he_o do_v not_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n that_o party_n shall_v be_v judgeâ—_n and_o that_o therefore_o man_n may_v appeal_v from_o they_o again_o those_o word_n page_n 27_o of_o the_o same_o book_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o these_o word_n say_v he_o what_o soever_o you_o bind_v on_o earth_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v mean_v only_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o of_o the_o church_n verse_n 18._o yea_o and_o it_o must_v exclude_v peter_n and_o his_o offend_a brother_n suppose_v they_o be_v both_o believer_n because_o party_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n can_v be_v judge_n lasâ—ly_o those_o word_n be_v express_v in_o his_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n in_o his_o see_v â—nd_v p._n 338_o 339._o where_o he_o write_v thus_o if_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n no_o man_n can_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n then_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o eldership_n of_o one_o congregation_n when_o they_o be_v a_o party_n to_o the_o cause_v person_n natural_a but_o the_o former_a be_v reason_n nature_n law_n of_o nation_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a in_o the_o assumption_n of_o which_o syllogism_n he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v reason_n nature_n and_o the_o law_n of_o nation_n that_o no_o man_n may_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n and_o by_o all_o this_o i_o suppose_v tâ—_n be_v manifest_a that_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v be_v express_o and_o plain_o teach_v by_o some_o of_o they_o and_o among_o other_o even_o by_o himself_o who_o therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o nor_o can_v be_v clear_v from_o much_o forgetfulness_n in_o so_o do_v and_o if_o so_o great_a a_o oversight_n be_v find_v in_o he_o i_o hope_v himself_o may_v thereby_o be_v entreat_v to_o be_v tender_a of_o agravate_v matter_n against_o we_o or_o other_o at_o leastwise_o not_o so_o far_o to_o aggravate_v they_o as_o to_o impute_v unto_o we_o matter_n which_o we_o do_v not_o hold_v for_o a_o man_n own_o infirmity_n shall_v make_v he_o more_o equitable_a and_o favourable_a towards_o other_o and_o christian_a reader_n may_v be_v warn_v hereby_o not_o hasty_o to_o receive_v all_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v write_v afore_o they_o have_v due_o examine_v and_o try_v the_o same_o whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o not_o for_o we_o see_v through_o forgetfulness_n or_o otherwise_o he_o may_v great_o mistake_v himself_o and_o miss_v of_o the_o truth_n and_o give_v forth_o such_o say_n and_o expression_n for_o truth_n as_o be_v in_o no_o sort_n to_o be_v maintain_v but_o recall_v though_o nevertheless_o he_o be_v otherwise_o a_o man_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o so_o ever_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v we_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v not_o congruous_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o christ_n shall_v have_v appoint_v all_o the_o ordinary_a church_n court_v so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n who_o may_v rather_o cry_v then_o extraordinary_a and_o high_a synod_n to_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n answ_n these_o qualification_n and_o limitation_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o party_n be_v judge_n be_v such_o as_o to_o my_o remembrance_n i_o never_o hear_v give_v afore_o now_o now_o indeed_o it_o be_v say_v 1._o that_o all_o congregation_n be_v so_o many_o thousand_o 2._o may_v not_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o it_o will_v be_v against_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o light_n of_o nature_n if_o it_o shall_v so_o be_v yet_o former_o it_o be_v deliver_v absolute_o and_o simple_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n for_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n without_o any_o such_o modification_n and_o qualification_n as_o now_o mr._n rutherf_n give_v to_o help_v the_o matter_n withal_o nevertheless_o by_o qualify_a the_o thing_n in_o this_o sort_n it_o seem_v thereby_o to_o be_v still_o grant_v that_o though_o so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n may_v not_o ordinary_o be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v be_v against_o it_o yet_o for_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n the_o thing_n may_v be_v allow_v well_o enough_o else_o why_o be_v the_o thing_n deny_v only_o to_o so_o many_o congregation_n and_o ordinary_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thereby_o employ_v that_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n may_v thus_o practice_v now_o hereupon_o the_o question_n grow_v whether_o some_o at_o some_o time_n may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n though_o all_o may_v not_o or_o whether_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v change_v when_o there_o come_v to_o be_v many_o congregation_n and_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o it_o be_v before_o when_o there_o be_v no_o more_o congregation_n but_o one_o whether_o i_o say_v some_o new_a light_n of_o nature_n do_v arise_v with_o the_o rise_n of_o new_a congregation_n so_o that_o when_o they_o be_v many_o it_o will_v be_v against_o this_o light_n for_o they_o thus_o to_o be_v judge_n though_o it_o be_v not_o so_o when_o there_o be_v but_o one_o or_o whether_o we_o must_v say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n remain_v in_o the_o same_o one_o congregation_n remain_v alone_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a thereto_o but_o
consequence_n for_o there_o be_v say_v he_o very_o extraordinary_a reason_n of_o that_o which_o be_v effect_v in_o jerusalem_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v to_o mention_v 5_o or_o 6._o reason_n in_o particular_a of_o which_o one_o be_v this_o which_o it_o may_v be_v mr._n rutherford_n have_v a_o eye_n unto_o that_o the_o state_n of_o this_o church_n be_v such_o as_o that_o it_o be_v to_o send_v out_o light_a to_o all_o other_o a_o common_a aursery_n to_o the_o world_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o thing_n be_v grant_v that_o in_o jerusalem_n there_o be_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n yea_o such_o a_o multitude_n as_o can_v not_o be_v contain_v in_o one_o congregation_n yet_o say_v he_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v from_o this_o particular_a to_o the_o so_o great_a increase_v of_o these_o church_n to_o wit_n of_o rome_n and_o alexandria_n in_o tract_n of_o time_n and_o even_o so_o may_v i_o say_v it_o do_v not_o follow_v to_o the_o so_o great_a increase_v of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o thessalonian_n there_o be_v such_o extraordinary_a reason_n for_o that_o which_o be_v effect_v in_o jerusalem_n as_o neither_o rome_n nor_o alexandria_n nor_o yet_o thessalonica_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o and_o this_o be_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o proposition_n but_o for_o the_o assumption_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o help_n must_v chief_o lie_v to_o wit_n that_o the_o multitude_n of_o christian_n in_o jerusalem_n do_v exceed_v the_o proportion_n of_o one_o congregation_n this_o mr._n baynes_n do_v express_o deny_v not_o to_o mention_v say_v he_o that_o we_o do_v deny_v the_o assumption_n therefore_o the_o proposition_n be_v by_o mr._n baynes_n not_o yield_v and_o the_o assumption_n express_o deny_v i_o see_v not_o how_o master_n rutherford_n can_v have_v any_o help_n to_o his_o cause_n from_o either_o of_o both_o he_o deny_v not_o he_o say_v what_o mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o do_v say_v that_o 5000_o may_v meet_v to_o hear_v the_o word_n many_o thousand_o be_v gather_v together_o luke_n 12_o to_o hear_v christ_n answ_n if_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v then_o suppose_v there_o be_v 5000_o or_o more_o in_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v therefore_o that_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n and_o so_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v but_o we_o he_o say_v leave_v out_o the_o inconvenience_n of_o throng_v so_o all_o at_o once_o for_o they_o tread_v one_o upon_o another_o second_o christ_n preach_v not_o to_o all_o those_o thousand_o at_o once_o for_o it_o be_v express_o say_v verse_n 1._o he_o begin_v to_o say_v to_o his_o disciple_n so_o christ_n refuse_v to_o preach_v to_o such_o a_o disorderly_a confluence_n of_o people_n who_o can_v not_o hear_v and_o his_o doctrine_n be_v all_o for_o his_o disciple_n the_o very_a sermon_n be_v preach_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o evidence_v to_o i_o that_o christ_n condemn_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n to_o hear_v at_o once_o answ_n the_o question_n be_v not_o about_o the_o conveniency_n or_o inconveniency_n of_o such_o excessive_o great_a assembly_n but_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o impossibility_n in_o nature_n and_o reason_n that_o so_o many_o as_o be_v say_v to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n shall_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o in_o one_o congregation_n for_o this_o be_v sometime_o say_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o sundry_a congregation_n in_o that_o one_o church_n now_o if_o this_o be_v not_o impossible_a than_o the_o plurality_n of_o congregation_n in_o that_o one_o church_n can_v be_v conclude_v by_o those_o great_a multitude_n that_o be_v therein_o and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a for_o such_o great_a multitude_n to_o come_v together_o in_o one_o congregation_n the_o scripture_n allege_v luke_n 12_o do_v witness_n if_o they_o tread_v one_o upon_o another_o that_o may_v argue_v the_o assembly_n be_v very_o great_a and_o that_o they_o be_v very_o desirous_a to_o be_v near_o unto_o our_o saviour_n for_o their_o better_a hear_n but_o do_v not_o at_o all_o prove_v that_o such_o multitude_n be_v so_o great_a as_o that_o they_o can_v possible_o be_v speak_v unto_o and_o hear_v in_o one_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v christ_n preach_v not_o to_o all_o those_o thousand_o at_o once_o and_o that_o he_o refuse_v to_o preach_v to_o such_o a_o disorderly_a confluence_n of_o people_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o man_n i_o think_v the_o truth_n be_v otherwise_o for_o though_o he_o begin_v to_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n verse_n 1_o and_o exhort_v they_o against_o worldly_a carefulness_n verse_n 22._o yet_o other_o who_o be_v not_o disciple_n be_v present_a and_o do_v also_o hear_v his_o sermon_n witness_v that_o in_o verse_n 13._o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o one_o of_o the_o company_n interrupt_v our_o saviour_n as_o it_o seem_v demand_v of_o he_o that_o he_o will_v speak_v to_o his_o brother_n about_o divide_v the_o inheritance_n to_o who_o our_o saviour_n make_v answer_v verse_n 14._o which_o plain_o â—hewes_v that_o all_o the_o present_a company_n be_v not_o disciple_n yea_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v that_o hereupon_o our_o saviour_n speak_v to_o they_o of_o beware_v and_o take_v heed_n of_o coveteousnesse_n verse_n 15._o and_o spâ—ke_v a_o parable_n to_o they_o of_o a_o certain_a rich_a man_n verse_n 16._o and_o after_o this_o say_v to_o his_o disciple_n verse_n 22._o take_v â—o_o think_v for_o your_o life_n what_o you_o shall_v eat_v etc._n etc._n it_o appear_v hereby_o that_o these_o person_n speak_v to_o afterward_o verse_n 15_o 16_o etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o disciple_n who_o be_v speak_v to_o afterward_o verse_n 22._o but_o be_v some_o other_o people_n beside_o and_o what_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o that_o in_o verse_n 54._o where_o it_o be_v express_o say_v that_o christ_n speak_v unto_o the_o people_n rebuke_v they_o for_o their_o hypocrisy_n that_o can_v discern_v the_o face_n of_o the_o sky_n and_o of_o the_o earth_n but_o can_v not_o discern_v that_o time_n and_o he_o say_v also_o to_o the_o people_n say_v the_o text_n do_v it_o not_o plain_o appear_v hereby_o that_o as_o myriad_o of_o people_n be_v gather_v together_o ver_fw-la 1_o so_o our_o saviour_n speak_v the_o word_n unto_o those_o people_n i_o suppose_v the_o thing_n be_v manifest_a and_o that_o therefore_o our_o brother_n word_n can_v stand_v when_o he_o say_v that_o christ_n preach_v not_o to_o that_o confluence_n of_o people_n but_o refuse_v so_o to_o do_v his_o doctrine_n be_v all_o for_o his_o disciple_n for_o we_o see_v the_o holy_a ghost_n witness_v that_o he_o speak_v not_o only_o to_o his_o disciple_n but_o to_o the_o people_n also_o chemnitiâ—s_n have_v these_o word_n negâ—ri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la â—n_fw-la hac_fw-la satis_fw-la prolixi_fw-la concione_fw-la etc._n etc._n it_o can_v be_v deny_v that_o christ_n in_o this_o long_a sermon_n of_o he_o direct_v his_o speech_n first_o to_o his_o disciple_n second_o to_o his_o friend_n three_o to_o one_o of_o the_o company_n four_o to_o peter_n demand_v a_o question_n five_o to_o all_o the_o multitude_n and_o it_o seem_v the_o evangelist_n be_v willing_a as_o it_o be_v to_o reckon_v up_o these_o several_a part_n or_o member_n of_o the_o sermon_n harmon_n chap._n 110._o and_o the_o refuter_fw-la of_o dr._n downams_n sermon_n say_v the_o mention_n of_o many_o thousand_o in_o jerusalem_n do_v not_o make_v the_o number_n such_o as_o by_o no_o mean_n can_v meet_v together_o in_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n see_v it_o be_v apparent_a luke_n 12._o 1._o that_o the_o people_n which_o assemble_v unto_o christ_n and_o partake_v his_o '_o doctrine_n be_v also_o many_o myriad_n and_o albeit_o he_o begin_v at_o the_o first_o to_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n verse_n 1._o yet_o afterward_o he_o speak_v to_o all_o the_o people_n assemble_v ver_fw-la 13._o 15._o 54._o reply_v p._n 2._o p._n 90._o wherefore_o though_o our_o brother_n say_v christ_n speak_v not_o to_o these_o multitude_n of_o people_n but_o to_o his_o disciple_n only_o yet_o since_o we_o have_v the_o â—ext_n itself_o and_o the_o judgement_n of_o two_o divine_n of_o chief_a note_n express_o witness_v the_o contrary_a therefore_o we_o can_v assent_v to_o he_o herein_o whereas_o chrysostome_n say_v 5000_o do_v hear_v his_o voice_n at_o once_o in_o one_o congregation_n by_o mean_n of_o scaffold_n and_o gallery_n and_o mr._n mather_n be_v willing_a to_o yield_v 8120_o be_v all_o assemble_v in_o one_o place_n to_o hear_v the_o word_n and_o that_o all_o the_o multitude_n of_o convert_v at_o jerusalem_n be_v together_o in_o solomon_n porch_n act_v 5_o 12._o i_o grant_v 3000_o can_v hear_v at_o once_o but_o alas_o &c_n &c_n page_n 458._o answ_n if_o chrysostom_n testimony_n be_v of_o any_o weight_n or_o mr._n baynes_n his_o testimony_n by_o who_o chrysostome_n be_v allege_v
that_o time_n what_o if_o they_o meet_v for_o the_o admission_n of_o member_n also_o or_o for_o censure_v delinquent_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n prove_v that_o either_o of_o we_o i_o mean_v either_o mr._n tompson_n or_o myself_o or_o indeed_o any_o man_n else_o of_o that_o judgement_n which_o he_o oppose_v have_v deny_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o such_o end_n as_o these_o to_o be_v a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v he_o can_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o well_o do_v to_o impute_v unto_o we_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n congregation_n as_o we_o never_o speak_v nor_o think_v of_o and_o then_o to_o say_v it_o be_v false_a that_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n be_v a_o congregation_n as_o that_o word_n be_v take_v by_o we_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n if_o the_o church_n matth._n 18._o assemble_v to_o to_o bind_v and_o loose_v if_o the_o church_n assemble_v 1_o corin._n 5._o to_o deliver_v to_o satan_n and_o sundry_a other_o be_v there_o name_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n answ_n if_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n be_v not_o mention_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v but_o other_o action_n and_o duty_n must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o in_o these_o place_n do_v assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n may_v not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n assemble_v for_o diverse_a end_n and_o action_n yea_o possible_o for_o diverse_a upon_o one_o day_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o at_o several_a time_n of_o assemble_v a_o church_n may_v attend_v to_o diverse_a duty_n and_o action_n and_o yet_o still_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o congregation_n or_o church_n at_o one_o time_n which_o they_o be_v at_o another_o or_o otherwise_o we_o must_v say_v which_o be_v a_o very_a unwise_a saying_n that_o a_o church_n meet_v for_o diverse_a action_n to_o be_v perform_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o the_o word_n prayer_n psalm_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o same_o church_n be_v one_o of_o these_o action_n that_o it_o be_v in_o another_o but_o be_v one_o church_n when_o they_o be_v at_o prayer_n another_o when_o they_o be_v sing_v psalm_n another_o when_o they_o be_v in_o exercise_n of_o the_o word_n or_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n or_o if_o they_o meet_v one_o day_n for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o another_o day_n for_o word_n and_o prayer_n without_o sacrament_n that_o nâ—w_o they_o be_v diverse_a church_n and_o not_o the_o same_o upon_o one_o of_o these_o day_n that_o they_o be_v upon_o another_o the_o nature_n and_o kind_n of_o their_o church_n be_v alter_v according_a to_o the_o several_a duty_n wherein_o they_o be_v exercise_v this_o argue_v i_o suppose_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_v for_o good_a and_o yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v no_o worse_o but_o the_o very_a same_o with_o that_o which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_v who_o because_o the_o church_n mention_v matth._n 18._o 1_o corinth_n 5._o and_o other_o place_n by_o he_o name_v be_v say_v to_o meet_v for_o discipline_n or_o other_o duty_n will_v thereupon_o have_v it_o think_v that_o the_o church_n mention_v in_o those_o place_n be_v not_o a_o church_n that_o do_v ever_o meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o be_v some_o other_o church_n of_o another_o kind_n which_o argue_v may_v be_v good_a if_o these_o which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o express_v be_v good_a but_o otherwise_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v stand_v chap._n xxiv_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o not_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church_n officer_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n officer_n lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o therefore_o when_o a_o church_n have_v no_o elder_n the_o people_n may_v confer_v ordination_n and_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbyter_n only_o and_o for_o this_o be_v allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46._o and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n say_v ordination_n be_v but_o accidental_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o may_v be_v want_v if_o the_o people_n shall_v choose_v in_o defect_n of_o elder_n pag._n 491._o answ_n this_o latter_a clause_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v add_v as_o deserve_v a_o confutation_n except_o our_o brother_n will_v confute_v himself_o for_o as_o we_o hear_v afore_o himself_o do_v plain_o affirm_v pag._n 186_o 187._o that_o both_o be_v true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n and_o that_o election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n where_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n at_o all_o which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o why_o shall_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o effect_n when_o it_o be_v hold_v by_o other_o be_v here_o insert_v in_o a_o objection_n as_o worthy_a to_o be_v speak_v against_o when_o himself_o do_v cast_v the_o very_a same_o it_o be_v marvel_n that_o our_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v thus_o go_v on_o in_o represent_v our_o word_n and_o mind_n amiss_o for_o as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o the_o objection_n under_o our_o name_n some_o of_o our_o word_n be_v change_v and_o alter_v other_o be_v substitute_v in_o their_o place_n some_o be_v whole_o suppress_v as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o and_o other_o be_v add_v as_o 〈◊〉_d which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o of_o the_o first_o sort_n be_v those_o of_o the_o people_n confer_v ordination_n whereas_o our_o word_n be_v not_o so_o but_o that_o the_o people_n may_v impose_v or_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o between_o these_o two_o himself_o pag._n 492._o do_v make_v a_o great_a difference_n even_o as_o much_o as_o between_o the_o authoritative_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o that_o call_n and_o further_o say_v that_o though_o he_o think_v imposition_n of_o handâ—_n not_o so_o essential_a perhaps_o at_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o yet_o of_o ordination_n he_o think_v otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o make_v so_o great_a a_o difference_n between_o imposition_n of_o handâ—_n and_o ordination_n why_o shall_v our_o word_n be_v forsake_v which_o import_n the_o lesser_a matter_n in_o his_o judgement_n and_o those_o other_o which_o he_o account_v do_v import_n much_o more_o be_v substitute_v in_o the_o room_n be_v this_o to_o burden_v our_o opinion_n or_o apprehension_n with_o a_o great_a odium_fw-la then_o our_o word_n in_o his_o own_o judgement_n will_v bear_v or_o be_v it_o to_o make_v his_o confutation_n of_o we_o more_o easy_a than_o it_o will_v have_v be_v if_o our_o own_o word_n have_v be_v retain_v and_o keep_v what_o ever_o be_v the_o cause_n hereof_o we_o can_v but_o think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a if_o it_o have_v be_v otherwise_o for_o omit_v and_o suppress_v some_o word_n of_o we_o which_o be_v the_o second_o particular_a i_o allege_v those_o of_o the_o time_n and_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n the_o whole_a passage_n be_v this_o viz._n by_o which_o scripture_n to_o wit_n num._n 8._o 10._o thus_o much_o be_v manifest_a that_o when_o a_o châ—rch_n have_v no_o elder_n but_o the_o first_o elder_n themselves_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o this_o at_o such_o time_n and_o in_o such_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n of_o the_o congregation_n although_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n by_o office_n in_o which_o place_n these_o word_n at_o such_o time_n â—nd_v in_o such_o place_n etc._n etc._n though_o they_o contain_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o case_n wherein_o we_o think_v imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o non-elders_a yet_o they_o be_v whole_o conceal_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o for_o what_o purpose_n himself_o best_o know_v but_o this_o be_v apparent_a that_o by_o his_o concealment_n or_o omission_n the_o way_n be_v make_v more_o easy_a and_o the_o ground_n more_o rational_a for_o that_o passage_n of_o he_o in_o the_o follow_a page_n where_o he_o say_v what_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v therefore_o the_o people_n be_v to_o lay_v on_o hand_n except_o say_v he_o there_o be_v
no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n or_o national_a church_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o have_v our_o word_n be_v deliver_v and_o set_v down_o by_o he_o as_o they_o come_v from_o we_o this_o speech_n and_o passage_n of_o he_o will_v have_v be_v useless_a and_o apparent_o bring_v in_o without_o cause_n for_o to_o what_o purpose_n shall_v he_o bring_v in_o this_o exception_n say_v except_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n etc._n etc._n when_o ourselves_o have_v prevent_v he_o in_o this_o by_o put_v such_o a_o exception_n express_o into_o the_o prohibition_n which_o we_o deduce_v and_o gather_v from_o that_o scripture_n of_o numb_a 8._o 10._o sure_o this_o have_v not_o need_v but_o may_v have_v be_v spare_v if_o our_o word_n have_v be_v full_o relate_v but_o by_o this_o omission_n and_o concealment_n his_o own_o speech_n have_v more_o appearance_n of_o ground_n and_o reason_n in_o it_o than_o otherwise_o it_o will_v have_v have_v and_o our_o apprehension_n do_v not_o appear_v to_o his_o reader_n as_o indeed_o it_o be_v nor_o as_o himself_o receive_v it_o from_o we_o in_o that_o our_o answer_n which_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o take_v somewhat_o unkind_o from_o he_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o it_o be_v not_o only_o once_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o that_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o in_o that_o answer_n once_o in_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o repeat_v and_o transcribe_v and_o again_o in_o pag._n 49._o where_o speak_v again_o of_o this_o same_o scripture_n numb_a 8._o v._n 10._o we_o say_v thus_o that_o we_o have_v show_v from_o that_o scripture_n that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n as_o at_o the_o first_o nor_o any_o that_o can_v convenient_o be_v get_v from_o other_o church_n than_o imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o other_o nevertheless_o though_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o once_o and_o a_o second_o time_n yet_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o once_o give_v notice_n hereof_o unto_o his_o reader_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o can_v find_v but_o still_o pass_v by_o these_o word_n of_o borrow_v elder_n from_o other_o church_n do_v take_v advantage_n of_o the_o want_n thereof_o which_o indeed_o be_v not_o want_v in_o our_o church_n which_o he_o deal_v against_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o be_v plain_o express_v therein_o and_o will_v not_o have_v be_v want_v in_o this_o passage_n which_o here_o he_o set_v down_o as_o we_o if_o himself_o have_v not_o conceal_v and_o suppress_v the_o same_o now_o to_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v plain_o express_v two_o several_a time_n at_o the_o least_o and_o then_o to_o make_v advantage_n for_o himself_o against_o we_o for_o want_v thereof_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o such_o measure_n as_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o take_v unkind_o let_v himself_o and_o other_o consider_v the_o three_o particular_a of_o add_v word_n which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o i_o will_v brief_o pass_v over_o because_o it_o be_v of_o less_o moment_n as_o not_o so_o much_o misrepresent_v our_o meaning_n yet_o i_o conceive_v those_o word_n it_o by_o ordination_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbytery_n alone_o which_o here_o be_v present_v to_o the_o reader_n as_o we_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v in_o our_o writing_n but_o i_o will_v not_o insist_v on_o this_o but_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o his_o answer_n there_o be_v not_o say_v he_o a_o place_n in_o all_o the_o word_n of_o god_n where_o people_n conserve_v ordination_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n therefore_o our_o brethren_n flee_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o levite_n who_o receive_v imposition_n of_o band_n from_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n answ_n we_o have_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o no_o such_o scripture_n can_v be_v expect_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n viz._n because_o in_o those_o time_n elder_n be_v not_o want_v for_o there_o be_v the_o apostle_n and_o apostolic_a man_n who_o be_v elder_n in_o all_o church_n and_o say_v we_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v that_o where_o elder_n be_v not_o want_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o the_o elder_n ans_fw-fr p._n 49._o now_o for_o our_o brethren_n to_o require_v of_o we_o a_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v without_o elder_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o which_o time_n there_o be_v elder_n to_o be_v have_v this_o we_o think_v to_o be_v unreasonable_a first_o it_o be_v our_o opinion_n that_o when_o elder_n be_v to_o be_v have_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o to_o be_v perform_v without_o those_o elder_n but_o by_o they_o moreover_o if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o disparagement_n to_o our_o cause_n that_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n afford_v no_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o people_n how_o will_v mr._n rutherford_n free_a his_o own_o way_n from_o another_o objection_n which_o we_o think_v as_o sore_o and_o weighty_a against_o the_o same_o as_o this_o which_o they_o think_v of_o so_o much_o weight_n against_o we_o the_o objection_n i_o mean_v be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o place_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n but_o all_o the_o example_n in_o scripture_n concern_v this_o matter_n be_v such_o where_o either_o the_o person_n impose_v or_o the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v impose_v or_o both_o be_v officer_n of_o extraordinary_a note_n and_o degree_n such_o as_o now_o be_v not_o extant_a in_o the_o church_n but_o be_v cease_v long_o again_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v but_o a_o argument_n may_v be_v take_v from_o those_o example_n for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o these_o day_n but_o the_o thing_n i_o stand_v upon_o be_v this_o that_o no_o example_n can_v be_v give_v from_o scripture_n direct_o parallel_v to_o the_o way_n which_o our_o brethren_n in_o these_o day_n do_v practice_v and_o allow_v but_o some_o dissonancy_n will_v be_v find_v therein_o from_o their_o way_n as_o well_o and_o perhaps_o as_o much_o as_o from_o the_o way_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v by_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n let_v they_o tell_v we_o of_o act._n 6._o v._n 6._o and_o 14._o 23._o and_o 1._o tim._n 5._o 22._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n impose_v hand_n in_o those_o place_n be_v apostle_n and_o evangelist_n such_o as_o our_o brethren_n be_v not_o nor_o do_v so_o account_v themselves_o let_v they_o name_n act._n 13._o 3._o and_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v there_o lay_v be_v the_o like_a even_a apostle_n and_o evangelist_n whatever_o the_o imposer_n be_v and_o therefore_o neither_o will_n these_o place_n perfect_o suit_v the_o case_n so_o that_o if_o we_o can_v give_v no_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v in_o some_o case_n by_o the_o people_n we_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n and_o out_o brethren_n of_o his_o way_n may_v be_v favourable_a to_o we_o for_o their_o own_o sake_n yet_o for_o the_o justification_n of_o our_o way_n and_o for_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o passage_n of_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o have_v this_o to_o say_v further_o that_o a_o example_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n of_o a_o practice_n not_o abolish_v in_o the_o new_a as_o ceremonial_a typical_a or_o of_o some_o peculiar_a reason_n special_o concern_v those_o time_n and_o people_n but_o of_o moral_a equity_n and_o reason_n such_o a_o example_n we_o think_v a_o sufficient_a warrant_n unto_o we_o for_o the_o like_a practice_n upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n in_o these_o day_n this_o i_o think_v mr_n rutherford_n must_v acknowledge_v for_o else_o he_o shall_v loose_v many_o argument_n which_o he_o frequent_o use_v in_o this_o treatise_n from_o the_o example_n of_o asa_n hezekiah_n josiah_n and_o other_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o the_o prove_v of_o thing_n to_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o new_a and_o else_o himself_o and_o we_o all_o shall_v loose_v the_o argument_n for_o pedobaptisme_n which_o be_v take_v from_o circumcision_n yea_o and_o which_o be_v more_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thus_o the_o apostle_n argue_v will_v not_o be_v strong_a who_o do_v frequent_o argue_v from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o confirm_v and_o prove_v truth_n and_o virtue_n and_o to_o reprove_v and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contraâ—y_n in_o the_o new_a to_o instance_n in_o no_o more_o but_o 1_o cor._n 9_o 10._o 2._o heb._n 3._o 24._o which_o example_n together_o with_o that_o say_n rom._n 15._o 4._o whatsoever_o be_v write_v in_o former_a time_n be_v write_v for_o our_o learning_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v