Tyndale That the pope and his spirites be not the chyrche maye this wyse be proued More Lo before in the tytle he made hys questyon of the pope and hys secte whyche questyon as I haue shewed you he framed farre from the mater and syth those people whych Tyndale calleth y e popys secte by whych name he meneth all that professe the comon catholyke fayth be all the nacyons chrystened excepte a few late fallen to Luther wyclyffe frere Huskyn and zuynglius how fyttly he vseth his termes in callynge all the body a secte whyche he myghte as well call a scysme for bothe sygnyfye a cuttyng of from the hole chyrche and then as well he maye and so doth he soone after call the heretykes y â— chyrche and therin calleth he bothe twayne as properly as yf he wolde cut of a cantell or a gobbet from an hole lofe and then call the cantell a lofe and the lofe a cantell But where as before in the tytle he made as I saye hys questyon of the pope and hys secte here he turneth it into the pope and hys spyrytes In whyche excepte he call spyrytes in mocke scorne all chrysten nacyons besydes those corners that professe them selfe for heretykes he muste nedes mene here by hys scornefull name of spyrytes onely the pope and the spyrytualtye and then goeth he yet mych forther fro me wyth whom he sholde cope For I call euer the chyrche whyche hys parte is here to impugne not the spyrytualtye onely but the hole corps and body of spyrytuall and temporall to And Tyndale very well woteth that the spyrytualtye so farforth doth accompte not them selfe alone but the temporaltye and them selfe to gether for the catholyke chyrch that there is not so pore a frere but he professyth it almost in euery sermone In whyche when he exhorteth hys audyence to praye for the chyrche he sayth not ye shall praye for the spyrytualtye alone but ye shall saythe he praye for the thre estates of holy chyrche that is to wytte the spyrytualty the temporalty and the sowles that be in purgatory For though they be departed out of our coÌ„pany yet them compte we styll for viagers and pylgrymmes in the same pylgrymage that we be towarde the same place of rest and welth that we walke tyll they be passed ones all the payne of theyr iournaye and entred into the blesse of heuen Nowe it is a greate shame for Tyndale to flye fro the poynte as he dothe in a mater so playne and open that euery chylde maye se how lothe he is to comme nere and cope But Tyndale hath all redy ryden so many shrewed courses in whyche he hath hadde suche buffettes that he hath almoste broken hys horses backe and hys owne to that now neyther is there bere nor heretyke more lothe to come to the stake then Tyndale to come nere the tylte And therfore drawynge a syde and flyttynge from the chyrche that is to wytte frome the hole multytude of all chrysten nacyons spyrytuall and temporall bothe whiche is the tylte by whyche he hath to ronne he standythe styll at the tyltes ende tymperynge and temperynge aboute his harneys and wyll no forther then the spyrytualtye but putteth of hys helmet and doeth on a folys hode and from iustynge falleth to iestynge to do the people pleasure and dreue awaye the mater wyth makynge of mockes and mowes For now lo shall we peruse hys proues Lo thys wyse reason he bryngeth in the fyrste Tyndale That the pope and his spyrytes be not the chyrche maye thyâ— wyâ—e be prâ—ued He that hath no fayth to be saued thorow Cryste is not of Crystes chyrche The pope â—â—â—eueth not to be saued thorowe Cryste For he teacheth to truste in holy workes for the remysâ—yon of synnes and saâ—uacyâ—n as in the workes of penaunce enioyned in vowes in pylgrymage in châ—styte in other mennes prayers and holy lyuynge in freres and freres cotes in sayntes merytes And the sygnyficacyons put out he teacheth to byleue in the dedes of the ceremonyes and of the sacramente ordeyned at the begynnynge to preache vnto vs and to do vs seruyce and not that we sholde beleue in them and serue them And a thousande suche superstycyâ—usnesse setteth he before vs in stede of Cryste to byleue in neyther Cryste nor goddes worde neyther honourable to god nor seruysable vnto our neyghbour nor profytable vn to our selues for the tamyng of the flesshe whiche all are the denyenge of Crystes blode More Some man wolde here peraduenture saye to Tyndale that he playeth in thys poynte the very folysshe dysour for the faute of the man to rayle vpon the offyce consyderyng that all be it there haue popes bene that haue euyll played theyr partes yet haue there ben popes agayne ryghte holy men sayntes and martyrs to and therfore in iestynge thus vppon a good offyce for an euyll offycer he canne lacke no mater of raylynge but maye runne out in hys rybaldry at large and saye that all the hole worlde muste leue of all maner of offyces and neyther haue pope emperour kynge counsaylour mayre shyryffe nor alderman to gouerne or rule the comons nor yet any man in hys owne howse stewarde cater pantler butler or cooke For among all these offyces there can be founden none that hath not had ere thys many an yll man in the rome Therfore wolde some man thynke I saye that Tyndals raylynge here vppon the pope were all ronne out of reason though that all the thynges whyche he layeth here to hys charge were in dede as euyll as Tyndale wolde haue them taken But surely syth the man hath fawtes inough besyde I wyll my selfe defende hym well in thys For thys wyll I well make good in his byhalfe that yf the fawtes for whyche he rayleth here vpon the pope be thynges noughte in dede and worthy to be rebuked then maye he well and lawfully ryally ieste and rayle vppon the hole pedegre of popes saynt Peter hym selfe and all For surely the thynges for y e techynge wherof Tyndale rebuketh here the pope hath euer ben the doctryne of popes patriarches prophetes apostles and our sauyour hym selfe and all For fyrste he proueth vs that the pope byleueth not to be saued thorow Christ bycause he techeth to truste in holy workes for remyssyon of synnes and saluacyoÌ„ Is not here a peryllous lesson trow ye namely so taught as the chyrch techeth it that no good work can be done wythout helpe of goddes grace nor no good worke of man worthy the rewarde of heuen but by the lyberall goodnesse of god nor yet sholde haue suche a pryce sette vppon it saue thorowe the merytes of Crystes bytter passyon and that yet in all our dedes we be so vnperfyt y t eche man hath good cause to fere for hys owne parte leste his beste be badde I wolde wene that good workes were not so dedely poyson but takynge not to myche at onys for cloyenge of the stomake no more at onys lo then I se the
nacyons haue now longe takeÌ„ hym is no parte of this questyoÌ„ For to this mater it is inough y â— thys body mystycall of Cryste this catholyk chirch is y â— body y â— is animated hath lyfe spyrytuall is enspyred with y e holy spyryt of god y t maketh theÌ„ of one fayth in the howse of god by ledyng theÌ„ in to the coÌ„sent of euery necessary trouth of reueled fayth be they in condycyoÌ„s maners neuer so syke as longe as they be coÌ„formable content in vnyte of fayth to cleue vnto y e body Of this chyrch can we not be deceyued nor of the ryght faith can we not be deceyued whyle we cleue to this chirch syth this chyrch is it in to which god hath gyueÌ„ his spyryt of fayth in this chirch both good bad ê“fesse one fayth For yf any professe the coÌ„trary fayth be it any one man or any one couÌ„trey they be controlled noted and repâ—ouâ—d by the hole body soone knowen from the body Now yf it happen any pryuy heretykes to lurke in this body yet all the whyle they agre with y â— body in open professioÌ„ of fayth teche no thyng coÌ„trary they can not begyle vs though they may by secrete heresyes of theyr hartes synfully deceyue them selfe And when they teche the coÌ„trary then are they as I say reproued opeÌ„ly by y e body eyther reformed cured or els cutte of fro the body and casten out therof So y t this chyrch is knowen well inough therfore maye be well vsed as a sure iudge for to decerne bytwene y â— trew doctrine the false and the trew precher false coÌ„cernyng the ryght fayth and the decernyng of the trew word of god wryteÌ„ of vnwryten from y e couÌ„terfete word of man and in the decernyng of y e ryght vnderstaÌ„dyng of the scrypture of god as farforth as of necessyte perteyneth vnto saluacyoÌ„ And this aduauÌ„tage y â— I speke of haue we by y â— that this chyrch is knoweÌ„ where as Tyndals chosen chyrch of repeÌ„tyng synners we can neuer know them but yf we se them walke in our chyrch in processyon with a candell byfore y â— crosse or stand before the pulpet with a fagot in theyr nekkes And yet can we not knw theÌ„ so neyther for they may seme repentauÌ„t openly and yet thynke in theyr hartes full shrewdely as they comeÌ„ly do Now wherby we shall be sure y t thys knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrch is y â— very trew chyrch y t is to be byleued that no man may be surely byleued y e agreeth not with the fayth of this chyrche all be it I haue both in my dyaloge in sondry places of my .iii. formar bokes of this psent worke well playnly ê“ued you yet shall I fynally before I fynysshe thys worke by such clere open markes tokens shew you wyth euydent reason playne scrypture furnysshed that no chylde shall after nede any thynge to dowte therof But now consyder in the meane whyle that Tyndals dyffynycyon or descrypcyon of the chyrch by whych he calleth it the nomber of all repentynge synners wyth all hys other coÌ„dycyons adioyned therunto is fyrst full of darkenesse And when it is opened â— it agreed neyther wyth one chyrch nor other And yet is it by another poynt of his own false doctryne vtterly destroyed For he techeth playnly that who so euer do after baptysme synne onys of purpose wyllyngly not onely of wekenes and infyrmyte he shall neuer be saued but all his repeÌ„tauÌ„ce after though he trust neuer so myche in god haue after neuer so sure fayth in hym shall neuer serue hym to saluacyoÌ„ but he shal be fynally dampned as I shall shew you forther after And then ye se playnly that his dyffynycyon of hys electe chyrch is by his owne doctryne destroyed For the elect chyrch can not be the noÌ„ber of all repentyng synners y â— truste to be saued in Crystes passyon yf some suche repentyng synners shall neuer be saued by hys passyon as Tyndale playnly lyeth And therfore syth he hath fayled of his dyffynycyon of the chyrche and therby loste and spylled all hys purpose lette vs now consyder whyther he handle any more wysely the remanaunt of hys goodly mater Tyndale Thys fayth haue they wythout all respecte of theyr owne deseruynges ye and for none other cause then that the mercyfull trewth of god the father whyche can not lye hath so promysed and so sworne More I dowte not good reders but ye remember well that all the doctryne of Crystes chyrche is full of warnynge that no man sholde put a prowde truste and confydence in hys owne wurkes nor onys thynke that he can of hym selfe alone without goddes gracious helpe do any good wurke at all and greate cause hath to fere and mystruste all hys owne workes for vnperfyte cyrcumstaunces seldom perceyued by hym selfe And also that in all that a man maye do he doth but hys onely dewtye and that the beste worke were noughte worth to heuenwarde of the nature of the worke yt selfe ne were it for the lyberall goodes of god y â— lysteth so hyghly to rewarde it and yet wolde not rewarde it so sauynge for the passyon of hys owne sonne All these thynges and many suche other mo be so dayly taught and preched in the chyrche that I truste in good fayth that almoste euery good olde wyfe can tell them And therfore it â—â—pereth well that Tyndale varyeth not wyth vs for so farre but that he meaneth a farre forther thynge where he sayth that the electe chyrche trusteth so vtterly to be forgeuyn all synne mocyons vnto synne wythout any respecte of theyr owne deseruyng playnely meaneth therin as in other places also he playnely declareth hym selfe whyche I haue in my formar bokes proued and reproued not onely that men shold not nede but also that it were synne to go about any good wurke wroughte wyth grace in fayth to deserue any thyng toward the gettynge of full and perfayt forgeuenes To thys poynte cometh Tyndals holy felynge fayth that feleth alwaye full forgyuenesse wythout any regard or respecte of mannys owne endeuourâ— deserue it Thys false felynge fayth hath Tyndale taken of Luther when he and all the rable of theyr secte saye that fayth of necessyte bryngeth forth good wurkes as the frute of the tree of faith And yet they say y e good wurkes be nought worth and therby make they y â— tre of fayth lytell better For what good tre can y t be wherof y e good frute is noughte worth But Tyndale and Luther bothe lye lowde in bothe the poyntes For bothe maye a man haue the ryght fayth idle and workelesse and therfore dede and frutelesse Dede I saye not in the nature and substaunce of bylyefe a fayth but dede as to the attaynyng of saluacyon And also good wurkes wrought in fayth hope and cheryte be very profytable towarde
not thus he wolde not so deuydeâ— these two kyndes of errour one agaynst the promyses and the other agaynst other thinges as ye se hym do but yf it were to teche vs that the tone were dedely synne and daÌ„pnable euery waye and the tother neuer dampnable but yf it were holden of malice and that therfore the trew member of his electe chyrch maye erre in the tone kynde so it be not malycyously bycause that ellys it is not dampnable nor dedely synne But in the tother concernyng the promyses he can neuer erre at all And why but bycause that euery errour therin were dedely synne and dampnable that one of his heresyes is as ye haue herd byfore that a trew member of the elected chyrche can neuer synne dedely And thys ye se therfore is hys playne doctryne whych what treuth it hath we shall nowe playnely shew you Let vs fyrst begynne with errours agaynst y â— promyses in Chryst. And therin let Tyndale tell vs fyrste wherfore a trew meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch can not erre in any thynge that is agaynst the promyses y â— be in Chryst in suche wyse as they may in other great artycles of the fayth that be no promyses what hath he other to say but bycause y â— euery maner errour though it be not holden malycyously is yet dedely synne daÌ„pnable yf it towch any promyse and that none other errour is dedely synne or dampnable whyche towcheth no promyse but yf it be holden malycyously Then must we forther aske hym wherby he woteth and wherby he proueth y t euery maner errour in euery artycle of any promyse y t is in Chryst is dedely synne daÌ„pnable though it come but of weykenes and fraylty and none â—rrour in any other artycle be it neuer so great is dampnable dedely but yf it be holden of malyce we must aske hym wherby he knoweth y â— it is inowgâ— for his saluacyoÌ„ to byleue y â— promyse of god in Chryst thaâ— thorow Chryste he shal be saued byleue not that Chryste the holy goste be one equale god wyth y â— father by which thre persons one god he shal be saued For y e Chryst is one god equale with the father it is no promise made vnto vs nor y t the holy goste is so neyther but it is a thyng by god tolde vnto vs. And I maruayle mych by what menys Tindale can proue vs that there is any lesse parell in not byleuynge of goddes other wordes then in the wordes of hys promyses syth he byndeth vs to byleue them both a lyke The cause of our saluacyoÌ„ is not the bylyefe of the promyse nor the truste therin neyther of any proper nature of that bylyefe in the promyse no more then the nature of our good workes is able of it selfe for our saluacyon but the ordynaunce of god that it pleaseth hym to saue vs for our obedyence of hys commaundement bothe in the bylyefe and the worke For as he coulde yf it so pleased hym brynge vs all vnto the blysse of heuen wythout any good worke at all so coulde he yf he lyste brynge vs all thyther wythout any fayth at all For he coulde brynge vs thyther wythout any knowledge gyuen vs therof tyll we came thyther and had it So it appereth clerely that the cause of the saluacyon standeth all in the obedyence of goddes coÌ„maundement wherby he byddeth vs and by hys byddyng byndeth vs to captyue our vnderstandynge in to the obedyence of fayth and byleue hys promyses Now yf thys be thus as of trouth it is what dowte is there but that we be as vpon lyke rewarde so vpon lyke parell payne bounden to byleue all other thynges y t god telleth vs as well as the thynges whych he promyseth vs. And therfore yf Tyndale wyll to the contrary loke to be byleued of any man in thys poynt he muste accordynge to hys owne ruleâ— brynge forth playne and open scrypture by whyche god hath tolde vs by wrytynge that yf we byleue onys hys promyses care for no more For as for all other thynges that be no promyses he wyll that we be at lyberty to byleue as we lyste so that there be no malyce in vs. And why at more lybertye of byleuynge god in hys other wordes then in hys promyses I can not perceyue what cause Tyndale can imagyne but yf he be so madde to thynke that god wyll in all hys other tales that hym lyste to tell vs though they be wryten in the very gospell as Tyndale sayth after haue vs yet at lybertye in beleuynge hym bycause hym selfe wolde be at lybertye to tell vs for hys pleasure somtyme trew talys and somtyme suche as Tyndale telleth that is to wytte vntrewth and lyes Surely this is a maruelouse tale of Tyndale in my mynde a maruelouse dyfference that he putteth bytwene the bylyefe of the promyses and the bylyefe of all the other artycles of the fayth As though the bylyefe of the promyses onely were so farre aboue the bylyefe of any other artycle when euery man that any wytte hath maye well and clerely se that the bylyefe of the promyses do so depende vpon some other artycles that the bylyefe of those artycles gone the bylyefe of the promyses and all to gyther were gone As who so were as many haue ben so madde to byleue that there were no god at all wyth hym were goddes promyses quyte gone And hys synne were as greate that erred in not byleuynge there were any god as hys that byleuynge there were a god erred yet in that he byleued not that euer he made any promyse to man And yet in goddes promyses Tyndale meneth onely y â— promyses of god made vnto mankynde for so farre go saynt Peters wordes qui in hunc mundum venisti is Tyndals exposycyon to And therfore as for Tyndale ye se well so that he byleue that hys electe chyrche of mankynde shal be saued he maye wythout any parell chese whyther he wyll byleue that euer any angell is eternally saued or not notwythstandyng that Chryst sayd of saynt IohnÌ„ the baptyst that the lest in heuen was greter then he yet bycause it was but a tale tolde by the mouth of Chryst and not a promyse made specyally syth it was no promyse of any gyfte gyuen to man Tyndale maye dystruste it and denye it yf he lyste yf hys wytte haue any such wekenes and so that he do it not of malice for all that it is playnely wryten in the very gospell and there tolde by goddes owne mouth Concernynge yet the promyses made to man let vs coÌ„syder whych thynges be promyses and whych thynges be not the very promyses but other artycles besyde That we shal be saued thorow Chryst and by Chrystes passyon is a promyse And yet that Chryst hym selfe was the same very person by whom that dede shold be done is more properly a tale then a promyse And it maye be that a man
heuen whyther wolde Tyndale aduyse them thus whyche yf he dyd then sholde he teche them that mannys endeuoure towarde fayth is not a thynge to be mocked as hym selfe mocketh it now but that mannes own wyll doth somwhat more towarde it then doth the chylde to the bygettynge of hys owne father Or ellys wolde Tyndale forbydde them all suche thynges in any wyse tell them that theyr owne endeuoure wolde rather hynder and make theym ascrybe the fayth that is y e gyfte of god vnto the meryte goodnes of theyr owne wyll theyr owne towardenesse theyr owne prayours theyr owne coÌ„tynence almoyse dede fastynge and all theyr other endeuoure All whyche thynges yf Tyndale take for nought or peryllouse then is it lykely that he wolde of consequence aduyce those dyscyples of hys to be well ware of all suche thynges do none of theÌ„ in no wyse for the counsayle to such thynges coulde come but of betle blynde flesshely reason And therfore Tyndales dyscyples towarde the gettyng of the fayth to the entent they shulde take therof no parte vnto theyr owne prayse but gyue the hole glory to god sholde I saye by hys aduyse vse none endeuoure at all nor do no thynge nor saye no thynge nor thynke no thynge but sytte euen styll sadly and gape by daye agaynste the sonne by nyght agaynste the mone tyll eyther some blynde betle or some holy humble bee come flye in at theyr mouthes and buzze in to theyr brestes an vnholsome hepe of flye blowen errours and motthe eten heresyes And thus good chrysten readers the reason that Tyndale maketh vs agaynste the endeuoure of man towarde the attaynynge of fayth whyche endeuoure he mocketh calleth it a counsayle of betle blynde reason bycause fayth is the gyfte of god I dowte not I saye but that hys reason is suche that a man that were betle blynde in dede may perceyue well inough that Tyndale for lacke of good endeuoure hath had of the gyfte of god lytell wytte and lesse grace in makynge of that feble and vnlawfull reason Tyndals other reason agaynst the good endeuour of mannes wyll is thys Tyndale My wyt muste shewe me a trewe cause or an apparent cause why yere my wyll haue any workynge at all More Lette Tyndale set hys consequente and conclusyon to thys antecedent made of thys reason and saye My wytte muste fyrste shewe me some cause eyther trewe or somwhat semynge trewe before that my wyll can any thynge do at all ergo none endeuoure of my selfe in conformynge and applyenge of my wyll can any thynge do at all And now when hys argumeÌ„t is all made vp ye shall fynde it as full of reason as an egge full of mustarde For what though my wytte and reason muste fyrste set my wyll a wurke can yet my wyll when it is ones moued dyuersly bytwene two reasons no thynge do at all in remouynge an obstynat leâ—ynge to the tone syde or a conformable inclynacyon towarde the consent of the tother If all the fayth of suche trewthes as are taughte were in suche wyse inspyred into euery mannes harte that is a faythfull man as he by that inwarde inspyracion had such a full perfayt and clere perceyuynge therof in the inwarde syghte of the vnderstandynge as the bodyly eye hath of y â— thynge that it playnely seeth and loketh vppon or as the syghte of the soule hath in suche euydent and open conclusyons as it dothe playnely and openly byholde suche I meane as are the generall petycyons in the fyrste boke of Euclidis geometry as that euery hole thynge is more then hys owne halfe or suche other lyke then wold I well agre wyth Tyndale that when the thynge were so shewâ—d vnto my wytte I coulde not but agre therto wyth my wyll But I say that all be it god is able in suche wyse to inspyre and infounde the fayth yf that hym lyste yet I saye that ordynaryly into hys faythfull folke neyther fynall reprobates nor fynall electes for faythfull are at sundry tymes of both the sortes he gyueth not the bylyefe or fayth on that fasshyon For yf he dyd then were it not fayth nor bylyâ—fe but very syghte and knowlege And suche kynde of so certayne and open reuelacyon were vnto the man occasyon of bylyefe and credence necessaryly surely and ineuytable but therfore as it semeth neyther thankworthy nor rewardable Now dothe god wyth hys chrysten folkes ordynaryly take that waye in the gyuynge theym theyr bylyefe and fayth that though they do not meryte wyth any forgoyng good dedes nor deserue the gyfte of byleuynge yet maye they wyth good endeuoure and obedyente conformyte deserue and meryte in the beleuynge And therfore syth god wyll for that cause bynde vs to the bylyefe bycause he wyll that we meryte and be rewarded for our bylyefe the reason of whyche deserte and meryt on our parte standeth in the respecte and regarde that god hath to our obedyence by whyche we wyllyngly submytte our selues to the credence of goddes worde wryten or vnwryten tellynge vs any thynge agaynste oure owne reason tellynge vs the contrary then yf our bylyefe loste hys meryte as that holy pope saynte Gregory sayth it shulde yf reason playnely proued vs the thynge that we byleue so were the meryte of our bylyefe loste in lyke wyse yf the thynge were in suche wyse gyuen vs as we more perfytely perceyued it then we perceyue any suche as reason maye moste perfytely proue vs. And therfore I say that god dothe nat ordinaryly gyue into men the faythe in suche maner bycause he wyll nat vtterlye take awaye the meryte fro man for as moche as he hathe ordayned hym to ioye by the meane of some meryte some conflycte passyon or payne vpon his owne parte though nat sufficient worthy for as saynt Poule sayth all the passyons and sufferaunces of this worlde be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shal be releued in vs yet suche at the leste wyse as his hyghe goodnes accepteth and rewardeth for worthy thorowe the force and strength of those merytes y t are in dede sufficient worthy the merytes I meane of y â— bytter payne and passyon of his alone onely begotten and tenderly beloued sonne Than say I nowe that syth y â— faythe is nat ordinaryly with suche open ineuitable and inuincyble lyghtsomnes inspyred in to the soule that the man muste of necessyte and very fyne force clerely perceyue and agree it but by god prouyded so sufficiently to be shewed taught as he that wyll be conformable and walke with goddes grace may fynde good cause inoughe to captyue his reason to the belefe and yet nat so great and vrgent causes but that he whiche wyll be yll wylled and frowarde may let grace go and fynde him selfe cauellacyons prowdely to test vpon his owne reason agaynste the worde of god eyther sayenge that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proued for goddes worde as Tyndale sayeth in all goddes
worlde wont to do many drammes of suche tryacle myxed with one scruple of drede were able inough for awght that I can se so to preserue the soule fro presumpcyon that one sponefull of good workes sholde no more kylle the soule then a potager of good wurtes sholde kylle and stroye the body The scrypture byddeth vs watche and faste and pray and gyue almoyse and forgyue our neyghbour we pore men that lacke the hyghe spyrytuall syghte that Tyndale hath and hys holy electys take these thynges for good workes And god sayth in hys holy wrytte that he wyll forgeue our synnes the rather for them and wyll rewarde vs for them thorow the scrypture thys cryeth god in our earys and faythfully promyseth almost in euery lefe And now ye se Tyndale that precheth so faste of the fayth and truste of goddes promyses wolde haue vs in these pâ—omyses trust god nothyng at all But herein is great peryll specyally to hope and truste to gete any good at goddes hand for y workes of penaâ—â—â—e enioyned For the sacrament of penaunce is to Tyndale a great abomynacion and therin in dede he sayth somwhat For well ye wote euyn of naturall reason a wyse man wyll sone se that syth the punysshement that a man wylfully taketh for the synne that he hath done commeth of an angre and dyspleasure that he bereth towarde hym selfe for the dyspleasure that hys synne hath done to god and that hâ—s wyllyng submyttyng of hym selfe to the correccyon of hys goostly father commeth of great humylyte gyuen by goâ—â— and taught by all good men god muste nedes thereâ—oâ—e perde bothe be angry and abhorre all them that for the frutes of these good affections can hope for any fauour grace or pardone at hys mercyfull hande If Tyndale lyste to loke in sainte Austayn in his boke of penaunce he shall there fynde that holy doctour 〈◊〉 byd euery man put hym self whole in hys conâ—â—ssours hadâ— and humbly receyue and fulfyll such penaunce as he shall enioyne hym But than doth Tyndale specyally touch that y e church techeth to put trust in vowys and in chastyte for that is a thyng in the earys of Luthers electes of all thynges moâ—â—â— abomynable But the churche techeth none other truâ—â—â— therin than the scrypture doth hyâ— selfe and oure blâ—â—sâ—d sauyour hym selfe They teche sayth Tyndale to truste in other mennes prayours and holy lyuyng in freres and in freres cotys Is nat here an abomynable synne that any man shulde haue so lytle pryde in hym selfe that he shuld thynke other men moche better than hym selfe and therfore desyrâ— thâ—m to pray for hym to besyde hym selfe In howe many places doth the scrypture exhort eche of vs to pray for other And whan the scrypture sayth that the dylygent prayoure of a iuste man is moche worth shuld we than truste nothynge therin but thynke that it were ryght nought worth at all or bycause the scrypture so commendeth the prayour of a good man shuld we lyke hys prayour the lesse for his holy lyuynge byd hym pray nat for vs but yf he lyue nought or if he be a frere and go in a freres cote bydde hym praye nat for vs tyll he put of hys frerys cote and put on a frese cote and ruâ—ne out of hys ordre an catche hym a quene call her hys wyfe Than goeth he from good lyuers in erth vnto sayntes in heuyn fyndeth yet more faute in that men are taught to go in any pylgrymage or do any worshyp to them or to thynke that theyr good lyuyng was so pleasauÌ„t vnto god whyle they lyued here in erth that he wyll therfore vouchesaufe to do any thynge at theyr requeste for any louer of theyres whyle they be wyth hym in heuyn Howe be it in thys poynt I dare be bolde to say for Tyndale my selfe that he is nat so folysh but that he seeth well I nough that if I may well pray my neyghbur to pray for me that is here wyth me in erthe I may moche better pray the sayntes pray for me that are with god in heuyn sauing that he byleueth that they be nat there nor neyther here vs nor se vs but lye styll as Luther sayth a slepe And therfore Tyndale leste we myghte wene that he byleued well byddeth vs in another place of hys boke that when we mete y e sayntes and talke wyth any of them than lette vs hardely knele and make our prayour to them And so ye shall natte nede to meruayle moche though thys man be bolde to ieste and rayle vpon euery man here in erth when he fereth nat to make mokkes and mowys at the blessed sayntes in heuyn He blameth vs and bylieth vs as though we toke theyr dede ymagys for quyke But hym selfe semeth yet moche worse in dede that taketh goddes quykke saintes for dede agaynst Chrystes owne wordes declarynge the contrary bothe by the scrypture in the gospell of saynte Mathew by the story that Chryste also telleth of Habraam and the ryche gloton and Lazare in the .xvi. chapytre of Luke Than commeth Tyndale in at the laste wyth the ceremonyes of the church and the sacramentes agaynst which prykke he specyally spurneth wyth hys kybâ—de hele but it wyll nat helpe hym The gentleman is so proude that the holy sacramentes muste be his waytynge seruauntes For now he sayth that they be but superstycyouse and serue of noughte but be sette in stede of Cryste and are as they be taught the denyenge of Crystes bloude How sholde they now be the denyeng of Crystes bloud when the chyrche teacheth vs as god hath taught it that they all haue theyr strength by Crystes bloude and that in the tone of them is Crystes owne very bloude and hys blessed body bothe Bothe whyche thys heretyke denyeth and as in my fyrste boke I shewed yow bothe iesteth and scoffeth vppon the precyouse body and bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament of the aulter and lyke a madde frantyke fole maketh mokkes and mowys at the masse And now that ye se good chrysten reders for what doctryne Tyndale rebuketh the comon catholyke chyrche ye can not but therby perceyue what doctryne he wolde haue them teche that is to wytte that we shold haue no respecte to good workes vse no shryfte nor penaunce beware of chastyte and blesse vs well therfro let no good men praye for vs nor none that vse holy lyuynge no Francysce frere bydde any bede for vs in hys freres cote tyll he do of hys graye garmentes and cloth hym selfe cumly in gaye kendall grene sette sayntes at nought and all holy ceremonyes vsed in goddes seruyse and al 's the seuen sacrameÌ„tes to make mokkes at the masse and at Crystes body and take it for nothynge but cake brede or starche And when the clergye techeth this onys then shall they be the chyrch But for lakke of this doctryne
wyse be hydden and therefore muste yt nedes be that the chyrche is thorowe the woâ—lde knowen And none is nor neuer was thorâ—we the worlde knowen for the chyrche of Chryste but onely the knowen catholyke chyâ—che Saynte Austayn also in his pystle to Uincentius whyche pystle is in order the .xlviii sayth in this wyse expresselyâ— How can we byleue by the scrypture of god that Cryst is comen into the worlde and knowen yf we byleue not therby that the chyrch is also manyfest and knowen lette any man who so wyll knyt and put in agaynste the playn trowth all the hokes and handles that he can let hym cast afore oure yien what mystes of wyly falshed that he lyst and when he hath all done loke how he is accursed that wyll tell vs that Chryste neyther veryly dyed nor veryly rose agayn euen lykewyse accursed shall he be that wyll tell vs for the very chyrche any other then this comen catholyke chyrche of all crysten nacyons Lo good reder Tyndale sayde heâ—e before y â— we wolde not byleue saynte Austayne nor any of the olde holy doctours as though hym self wolde And now haue ye hard saynte Austayne whome yf Tyndale wyll byleue all our questyon is decyded For he sayth as we saye that the comen catholyque chyrch is the very chyrch And yf he wyll not byleue hym then let hym leue lyke as he is to lay hys owne faute to other folke Good crysten reders yf my purpose were here to proue you by the consente of the olde holy doctours of Chrystes chyrche that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche the nomber of those authorytees wolde fyll an hole boke But my purpose is here onely to answere Tyndale and confute his solucyon wyth whych he falsely gloseth the wordes of saynte Austayne that sayth he byleued not the scrypture yt self but for the authorite of the chyrch wherin I haue playnely proued you by saynt Austaynes owne wordes Tyndales wordes shamfully false as well in the pryncypall purpose as in that he layeth falsely to the chyrche that the chyrche doth abuse the sayng of saynt Austayne And therfore syth he sayth that they mysse construe and falsely alledge all the scrypture euen in lyke maner wyse as they do saynte Austayne whyle ye playnely se that in this poynte whyche Tyndale putteth for the sample the chyrche sayth trewe and hym selfe lyeth good cause haue you to byleue this lewde felow in the remanauntlyke But now shall ye se Tyndale deuyse you suche a shyft that contrary to all his shyftes afore he shall clerely confesse hym selfe that he both knoweth and byleueth the scrypture by the catholyke chyrch For now commeth he to his fourth solucyon wyth whyche he clene destroyeth all the tother thre that he made vs byfore Lo thus he sayth Tyndale And when they aske whether we receyued the scrypture of them I answere that they whyche come after receyâ—e the scrypture of them that go byfore And when they axe whether we byleue not that yt is goddes worde by the reason that they tell vs so I anâ—were that there are two maner oâ— faythes an hyâ—torycall fayth and a felynge fayth More Lo good reder here shall ye se that the thynge where about he hath bombled all this whyle that is to proue that he knoweth not the scrypture by the chyrche and to proue that he byleued yt not to be the scrypture of god bycause the chyrche so tolde hym perceyuynge at lengthe that all his answers were weke feble and faynte and that none of theÌ„ all wold stand he is dreuen at the last for very very shame to confesse some parte of the trouth yet for shame also to denye a nother parte For by thys dystynccyon of these two faythes hystorycall fayth and felynge faythâ— he wyll in the ende tell vs that ones he knew the scrypture by the chyrche in byleuynge the chyrche but that was but an hystorycall fayth How be yt he well saye that now he neyther knoweth it nor byleueth it by the chyrch but by the inwarde inspyracyon and teachynge of god hym selfe And where as his mayster and he many tymes mokke the doctours of the chyrch for vsyng of trew dystynccyoÌ„s in thynges where they be requysyte hym selfe hath here deuysed an euasyon by meane of a dystynccyon made by Melancthon in whyche destynccyon as in a myste he weneth to walke away But I truste ye shall se the myste breke vp so fayre that he shall not escape so Lo thus goth he forth there wyth Tyndale The hystorycall fayth hangeth of the trewth and honestye of tâ—e teâ—â—er or of the commen fame and consente of many As yf one toâ—de me that tâ—e Turke had wonne a cytye and I byleued yt moued wyth the honestyâ— oâ— tâ—e man Now yf there come a nother that semeth more honeste or that hath â—â—tter peâ—suasyoÌ„s that it is not so I thinke immediatly that he lyed and ◠〈◊〉 fayth agayne And a felynge fayth is as yf a man were there â—râ—sent 〈◊〉 yt was wonne and there were wounded and had there loste all that he â—aâ— anâ— were taken presoner there also That man shulde so byleue tâ—at aâ—â— tâ—e worlâ—e coulde not turne hym from his fayth Euyn lykewyse yf my motâ—er had blowen on her fynger and tolde me that the fyre wolde burne me I shâ—ld haue byleued her wyth an hystorycall fayth as we byleue the sâ—oryâ—s of the worlde bycause I thought she wolde not haue mokked me And so I shulde haue done if she had told me that the fyre had ben cold and wold not haue burned But as sone as I had put my finger in the fyre I shulde haue beleued not by the reason oâ— her but wyth a felynge fayth so that she coulde not haue persuaded my afterwarde the contrary So now wyth an hystorycall fayth I may byleue that the scrypture is godds by the teachynge of them and so I shulde haue done though they had told me that Robben hod had ben the scrypture of god Whych fayth is but â—n opynyon and therfore abydeth euer frutelesse and fauleth awaye yf a more gloryouse reason be made vnto me or yf the preacher lyue contrarye But of a felynge fayth yt is wryten IohnÌ„ vi They shall be all taughte of god That is god shall wryte yt in theyr hertes wyth his holy spyryte And Paule also testyfyeth Roman viii the spyryte bereth recorde vnto oure spyryte that we be the sonnes of god And thys fayth is none â—pynyon but a sure felynge and therfore euer frutefull Neyther hangeth yt of the hoâ—estye of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spyryte And therfore yf all the preachers of the world wolde go about to persuade the contrary yt wold not preuayl no more then though they wolde make me byleue the fyre were colde after that I hadde put my fynger therin Of this ye haue an ensample IohnÌ„ iiii of the Samaritanyshe wyfe whych left her pytcher and went into
he woâ—eth that Cryste promysed and sent the same spyryte to hys chyrch to teche it lede it into all trewth and hym selfe also to dwell therin for euer And that the knowen catholyke chyrche is it that onely hath the same spyryte appereth clerely by thys that onely the knowen catholike chyrch hath in it declared and contynued the power For none other chyrche of Chryste is there in whyche the myracles contynue And therfore yf there were any such felyng fayth in any chyrche then must it be in thys chyrche then were thys chyrche the chyrche of Tyndals electes and then were ther wythall hys whole purpose loste Now yf he wyll not in any wyse agree that any papystes may be electes and haue the felynge fayth nor any man at theyr prechynge bycause they do but raue rage but the menne of Samary were electes must nedes haue the felyng fayth for this onely cause that is to wyt bycause our lord preched to them hym selfe so that ellys they could not at the prechynge of any other then let it lyke hym to remeÌ„ber that Cryste preched to many men his owne mouth of whyche there were some that thorow theyr frowarde wyll byleued neuer a whyt as for ensample the scrybes and pharyseys And some byleued at the fyrst full well afterward yet fell away as dyd almost all the mayny of his discyples when he tolde them of hys body and bloude that sholde be both mete drynke went they not from hym than as Tyndale hath done synnys for y â— self same cause bycause he wyll none other byleue but that it is onely â—ake brede wyne And hadde not Iudas Iscaryoth herd our lorde as often prech and as longe as dyd those men of Samary ye and byleued as well to somtyme and yet fell after to noughte as Tyndale is fallen now Nay sayth Tyndale Iudas neuer byleued How proueth Tyndale that agayneâ— For of all lykelyhâ—â— he dyd syth Cryste toke hym and made hym hys apostâ—e and sente hym forth to prech and forther as some good coÌ„mentours expowne these verses sayth of hym hym â—elfe If myne enemye had cursed me I myght haue susteyned borne it And also yf he that hated me had spoken hyghe wordes to me I wolde perauenture haue hydde me from hym But thou man of one mynde wyth me my guyde and myne acquayntauÌ„ce that dydest eate with me swete mere we walked togyther in the howse of god with one agreable mynd Here sayth our sauyour of hym not onely that he was his acquayntaunce famylyare and that they pleasauÌ„tely dyd eate to gyther but also that they were of one mynde onys walked in the howse of god wyth good consent togyther had Cryste ben of one mynde coÌ„sent with Iudas at any tyme yf Iudas had at no tyme beâ—e of the ryght bylyefe well wyll Tyndale say but yet hadde he but an hystorycall fayth not the felyng fayth Now where is then become y â— profe of Tyndals tale y â— the men of Samary muste nedes haue the felyng fayth bycause they spake with Cryste and coulde not haue so for all the womans wordes tyll they spake wyth Cryst yf Cryst spake wyth Iudas mych more then wyth them yet had Iudas but eyther hystorycall fayth or els no fayth at all or finally his felynge fayth fayled fell awaye wherupon it foloweth that there fayleth falleth away Tyndals hole tale wythall For how proueth he now that theyr bylyefe was a felynge fayth that neuer coulde fayle nor fall And thus ye se good reders how wysely Tyndale proueth hys dystynccyoÌ„ of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth by the sample of the Samarytanys by whych he proueth as ye se neyther one thynge nor other And fynally yf we graunte hym that all was there trew that he sayth that is to wytte that the men had the felynge fayth bycause they spake wyth Cryst mouth to mouth and that excepte hys personall prechyng theyr fayth had bene but an opynyon faynt feble and frutelesâ—e then were Tyndale yet brought vnto the wurste poynte of all For then must it nedes folow theron that neyther Luther nor Tyndale nor Huyskyn nor Suinglius can bynd vs to byleue that they haue the felynge fayth tyll they brynge vs forth good profe that they haue spoken not wyth other y â— preche them Crystes wordes but as the menne of Samary dyd euyn face to face wyth Crystes owne person present Now se ye well good chrysten reders that of all hys coÌ„clusyon of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth wheruppon fynally dependeth all hys purpose to wynd away wythall and â—hyfte hym selfe asyde he proueth vs neuer a pyece And yet as though there muste nedes be such a felynge fayth as he descrybeth he procedeth forth and sayth Tyndale The scrypture sayth cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh floshe his arme that is to say his strength And euen so cursed is he that hath none nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so saye And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More ye se good reders that these wordes waye to proue that of necessyte there muste be suche a felynge fayth as he assygneth For ellys maketh Tyndale as though no man coulde haue any other cause of hys fayth but the trust that he putteth in the man that telleth hym so and that saith he is a thynge accursed in the scrypture A lytell afore Tyndale alledged saynt Austayne in beleuynge the gospell for the chyrche now lo he calleth hym accursed for puttynge of men in so mych â—ruâ—te But I suppose the scrypture speketh of these prounde wordly folke that wene them selfe saufe inough by worldly strength and able to conquere wynne vp the world with multytude of men of whom the scrypture sayth that they put trust of vyctory some in horse some in charyotes These kynde of people do make flessh theyr arme not euery maÌ„ y â— byleueth an other in tellynge of a tale For they byleue not with theyr arme perde but as they walke with theyr haÌ„des bycause they cast them not of But Tyndale that dysdayneth to byleue the chyrche he is by goddes owne mouth accursed out of the chyrche For who so sayth ouâ— sauyouâ— wyll not here the chyrche take hym for a publycan and a very paynym But now good chrysten readers I haue declared you before that saynt Austayne in byleuynge the scrypture bycause of the authoryte of the chyrche and all we that do the lyke do not therby put our truste in man but in god that by hys inwarde spyryee and outwarde myracles enclyneth vs to byleue hys chyrche therin and yet by the same scrypture also confermeth the same bylyefe by hys great promyses therin conteyned and made vnto the same
obtaynynge of forgyuenesse and getynge reward in heuyn excepte y e scrypture of god be false when it sayth that as the water quencheth fyre so doth almoyse dede auoyde synne and except our sauyour hym selfe saye false where he sayth Gyue your superfluouse substaunce in almoyse and then lo are ye all clene And in lyke wyse where he promyseth rewarde in heuen in sondry playne places of scrypture for good wurkes done here in erth Now yf Tyndale answere that the good workes be nothynge worth of them selfe nor wythout fayth as he answereth me in his answere to y e thyrd boke of my dyaloge then maye euery chylde se that he is dreuen to the harde wall fayne to seke a shamfull shyfte For what thynge is awght worth of yt selfe to heuenward without goddes grace and the greate goodnesse of god No fyry cheryte though men wolde burne for goddes sake coude deserue heuen of yt selfe wythout the lyberall goodnesse of god For as saynt Poule sayth the passyons of thys worlde be not worthy to wynne the glory to come that shal be shewed vppon vs. And yf he saye that good workes be nought worth bycause they be nought worth without fayth so myght he as well saye y e fayth were nought worth bycause it is nought worth wythout cheryte So that ye maye playnely se that he seketh nothynge but shyftes whyche wyll yet serue of nought when he hath all together done For ye maye fynally perceyue that though euery man maye well fere that the workes which hym selfe hath done semed they neuer so good were yet for some lacke vppon hys parte in y â— doynge so vnperfyt in the depe secret syght of god that they were vnworthy to serue hym or be any thynge rewarded and also that were they neuer so pure perfyt they were not yet worthy â—uche rewarde but of goddes lyberall goodnesse yet is it a very false fayth and a pestylent heresye to byleue as Tyndale here techeth vs y â— god wyll saue suche as maye worke wythout any respecte or regarde vnto theyr deseruynge as though he rought not whyther they dyd good or yll but wyll saue all suche as hym lyste do they what they lyste onely bycause hym lyste and that hym selfe so lysteth for none other cause but onely bycause he hath so promysed and sworen For surely neyther is the promyse the cause as I haue in myne other boke shewed but y e goodnesse of god whych caused hym so to promyse Nor also he hath not so sworne nor so promysed neyther that he wyll saue man wythout any regarde of good wurkes but hath bothe promysed sworne the clene contrary that but yf we wurke well yf we maye or repent that we dyd not and be in purpose to do ellys shall our fayth stande vs in lytell stede but greately aggreue and encrease the payne of our dampnacyon And now that hys fayth is proued very playne false and faythlesse it is a worlde to se how ryally he runneth forth in the prayse as though it were proued trew Tyndale And thys fayth and knowlege is euerlastynge lyfe and by thys we be borne a newe and made the sonnes of god and obteyne forgyuenesse of synnes and are translated from deth to lyfe and from the wrath of god vnto hys loue and fauour And thys fayth is the mother of all trouth and bryngeth wyâ—h her the spyryte of all truth whyche spyryte purgeth vs as from all syâ—â—e euyn so from all lyes and errour noysome and hurtâ—ull Anâ— thys fâ—yth is the fundacyon layde of the apostles and prophetes whereon Paull sayth Ephe. 2. that we are bylte and therby of the howseholde of god And thys fayth is the rocke wheron Cryste bylte hys congregacyon More Lo what a prayse he hath made you of thys fayth that feleth that folke sholde nede to do no good workes How he calleth it euerlastyng lyfe to come to the bare knowlege of that fayth that shall take away from vs all respecte and regarde of deseruynge any rewarde or thanke the rather for any good wurkes For yf men myght haue any suche respecte then were it greate parell leste men wolde fall the more to do them For other greate parell I se none consyderynge y â— we be well taught to put no proude confydence in them but referre all the thanke of them to god by whose helpe and grace we do them Now wote ye well that no good man can deny but that for lacke of suche wurkes men shall be dampned as Cryst sayth hym selfe in the gospell And harde it were that the good nature of god beynge more redy to rewarde then to punysshe wolde punysshe vs for the lackynge and not rewarde vs for the hauynge namely syth hym selfe sayth in the same gospell that he shall gyue men heuen for theyr almoyse ded But Tyndale as he denyeth the tone so denyeth he the tother to and wyth some fonde glose wyll auoyde the gospell and all and then goo boldely forth wyth hys fayth boste it and saye thys fayth and knowlege is euerlastynge lyfe But all faythfull folke wyll saye agayne thys fayth and knowlege ys euerlastynge deth For thys fayth hath Luther and frere Huskyn bothe and yet be farre from euerlastynge lyfe For bysyde that abomynable heresye it selfe agaynste all regarde of good wurkes they be not agreed in bylyefe concernynge the sacrament of the awter the tone byleuynge it to be very brede â— the tother no thyng loweth ellys but brede and false bothe twayne And Tyndale foloweth the falser of them bothe And so thys fayth delyuereth them not fro lyes besydes y t they bothe and Tyndale wyth them do byleue yf they lye not that it is lawfull for monkes freres to breke theyr vowed chastyte and runne out and wedde nonnes whyche poynt of false fayth ys no parte of the fundacyon that the apostles byelded vppon but saynt Poule preched the contrary sayeng that vowed wydowes wyllynge to wedde shold haue dampnacyon by cause they had frustrated and broken theyr formaâ— fayth that is to wytte theyr fayth gyuen to god in theyr vowe of abstynence from all carnall knowlege of man agaynste whyche fayth they wolde now wedde and geue a seconde fayth vnto man in maryage But now goth Tindale forth wyth hys tale wolde seme to proue it trew by scrypture Tyndale Cryste asked hys apostles Matth. 17. whom they toke hym for And Peter anâ—wered for them all sayenge I say that thou arte Cryste the sonne of the lyuynge god that arte come in to thys worlde That is we byleue that thou arte he that was promysed vnto Abraham shulde come and blesse vs and delyuer vs. How be it Peter yet wyste not by what meanes but now it is opened thorow out all the world that thorow the offeryng of his body and bloâ—e More Here is it necessary that euery wyse reder marke well consyder the cause and purpose of Tyndale in
specyall reuelacyon therof so sure of his owne fynall saluacyon nor of his own present estate neyther but that he hath good cause to fere temper hys hope of goddys mercy with the drede of his iustyce lest his ouer bolde hope may happe to stretche in to presumpcion occasyon of sleyght regardyng synne Tyndale wolde expoune theÌ„ all agaynst them all by one darke text or twayn taken in this pistle of saynt IohnÌ„ by which he wold make vs byleue y â— saynt IohnÌ„ techeth dyuers of the most pestylent heresyes most repugnauÌ„t vnto god and y t in hys iustyce and his mercy bothe wyth the most occasyon gyuen vnto the world vnto the two most heyghnouse synnes and moste contraryouse in them selfe that is to wytte presumpcyon despayre that euer any heretyke deuysed For he gathereth and affermeth vpon saynt IohnÌ„s pystle in hys false exposycyon and also in hys foresayd begynnynge of thys chapyter that saynt IohnÌ„ techeth them all these false heresyes folowynge Fyrste that who so euer haue onys the trewe fayth can neuer after synne of malice or purpose but that all the synnys that he can after fall vnto shal be but of wekâ—nes and frayltye be they murder aduowtry periury sacrylege inceste or treason or any other abomynable dede be it neuer so detestable synne SecoÌ„dely y t of all such synnes he that hath onys at any tyme goten y e fayth shall haue euer after the grace to repeÌ„t And thyrdely y t at the bare repentynge wythout shryfte or penaunce he shall haue forthwyth forgeuenesse of all synne and payne so that any satysfaccyon shall not onely no thyng nede but is also as he sayth a dampnable thyng to do it for hope or desyre towarde any remyssyon eyther of synne or payne and a dampnable eâ—rour to byleue that god hath ordayned any punysshement or payne eyther in purgatory after thys worlde or by any afflyccyon in thys world for any synne that any man onys hauyng the fayth coÌ„mytteth repeÌ„teth hym of were it neuer so abominable For in hys exposycyon of y e fyrste pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ he is come so mych ferther then euer he came before as farre as I remember y t there lyke as I haue shewed you byfore in the preface he denyeth not onely purgatory but also all punysshement here he techeth also that who so gete onys the trew fayth which he calleth the felyng fayth hath a sure vndowted knowlege that he is in the state of grace and an electe that can neuer be dampned Now of these abomynable heresyes what bold occasyoÌ„ of synne men may catche and how they repuÌ„gne agaynste the iustyce of god I referre it vnto the wysedome of euery good Crysten reder Then techeth he on the tother syde y t who so euer after hys baptysme had the story fayth that is sayth he the fayth with whych we byleue the artycles of the fayth as men byleue a story or a cronicle do any dedely synne of purpose y t is to wytte as he sayth not of wekenes or freyltye but of malyce or wyllyngly wyth a consentyng to the synne y â— man shall neuer after be forgeuen in thys worlde nor in none other For euery such synne sayth he is the synne agaynst y â— holy goste which shall sayth he neuer be forgyuen notwithstandynge any repentaunce and penaunce taken and done therfore And to the profe of thys pestylent heresye he draweth the couert and obscure wordes of our sauyour Cryste in the gospell of saynt Mathew the .12 chapyter and also the darke and hard wordes of saynt Poule whych places of them selfe all olde holy doctours confesse for dyffuse and almost vnexplyclable sauynge that they all expoune them contrary to Tyndals heresye by y â— artycles of the knowne fayth of Crystes catholyke chyrche and by many playne open textes of holy scrypture Of whyche two thynges Tyndale the tone dyssymuleth and the tother despyseth and byleueth the olde heretyke Nouaciane the fyrsse authour of that abomynable heresye better then saynte Cypryane saynte Hyerom saynte Austayne saynte Ambrose saynt Gregory and all the olde holy sayntes that haue wryten agaynst it and better then the hole catholyke chyrche of Cryste of thys .xv. hundred yere y â— euer hath taught the contrarye and euer syth the fyrst inuencyon of that heresye haue contynually detested and condeÌ„pned it as one of the most execrable heresyes that euer y e deuyll deuysed For as Tyndals other heresye fyghteth agaynste goddes iustyce so doth thys dyrectly fyghte agaynste hys mercy and putteth almoste all crysteÌ„ people in vtter despayre of heuen yf men were so madde to byleue one heretyke or twayne better then all the olde holy sayntes and all the hole chyrche of Cryste Thys heresye as I began to tell you Tyndale among hys other afore remembred laboreth to stablysh not onely by the darke and harde places of scrypture afore remembred but also by certayne wordes in thys fyrste pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ where is no more colour to speke therof then of the man in the mone as euery man maye sone perceyue that redeth hym But now for our present purpose to towch his heresies of thys chapyter of hys of synnyng without synne I shall touche you the place in that pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ wherby Tyndale wolde proue you that who so gete onys the fayth whyche he calleth the trew fayth and the felyng fayth can neuer synne dedely after By whyche ye shall playnely se how playnely he mysseconstrewth the scrypture to the myschyef of meÌ„nes soules The wordes of saint IohnÌ„ be these Euery man that is borne of god doth not synne for the seed of hym abydeth in hym and he can not synne bycause he is borne of god In the vnderstandynge of these wordes varye Tyndale and we And whyther he or we mysse vnderstande it that let vs now examyne Fyrst we shall I suppose agre to gether bothe that to be borne of god is in the scrypture no thynge ellys but to be the chyld of god and to be boâ—ne of the deuyll is to be the deuyls chylde we shall I thynke also agre to gether in thys that to be borne of god or to be the chyldren of god is not mente to be hys naturall chyldren as our sauyour Cryste is by reason of hys godhed but by fayth hope and cheryteâ— and the sacramentes and the folowynge of Cryst in good workes and kepynge of goddes commaundementes to be meÌ„bres of hys mystycall body of hys electe chyrche But herein peraduenture shall Tindale and we begyn to vary not onely for that I saye by the sacramentes and good workes of whyche Tyndale wyll not here but also for the electe chyrche y â— is Crystes mystycall body wherof goddes chyldren be membres here in erth For all be it that he is so waueryng in his wordes that he woteth not where to holde hym and therfore speketh so darkely that he wold be loth to be vnderstanden yet he wyll
byleuyng the promyse that mankynde shall be saued thorow Chryst may yet erre in not byleuynge y â— Iesus the sonne of Mary was that Chryste And of trouth eyther in that errour or very nere to that errour be all the hole secte of Iewes So that it is as great parell not to byleue god in hys tale wheÌ„ he sayed thys is my welbeloued sonne in whom I myche delyte as not to byleue hym in hys promyse made vnto Habraam that of hys seed sholde such a sauyour come For it is not all one to promyse that of hym sholde one come by whom the worlde sholde be saued and to tell hym thys is the man that in my promyse I spake of For a promise and a tale be not both one thynge For though euery promyse by in dede a tale syth no man can make a promyse but yf he tell it yet is not euery tale a promyse as euery chylde perceyueth And therfore saynte Peter toke a sure waye when he sayed Thou arte Chryst that arte come into thys worlde takyng it for a pryncypall poynt to byleue goddes tale For the tale that thys was he whycâ—â— as our sauyour sayde the father in heuen had hym selfe tolde vnto Peter that tale Peter confessed that Iesus was Chryste whyche was then comen into the worlde But the promyse whyche was the sauynge of the worlde that sholde be wrought in hym that thyng saynt Peter spake not of there as a thyng byleued and loked for afore nor of the mene of the sauyng that it shulde be by hys passyon that thynge saynte Peter as Tyndale sayth at that tyme knewe not of so that y e tale and the promyse were not all one But surely coÌ„cernyng the bylyefe of goddys promyses Tyndale semeth to fare as the Iewes do For lyke as many of them byleue that thorow Chryste the world shall be saued and yet they lese the frute of that bylyefe bycause they wyll not knowe who is Chryste euyn so Tyndale sayth that he byleueth Chrystes promyse made vnto hys chyrche here in erth that hys holy spyryte shal be therwith vnto the worldes ende and teche it and lede it into euery trouth But he leseth yet the frute of that bylyefe yf he byleue it as he sayth he doth bycause that he wyll not knowe whyche is Chrystes â—hyrche here in erth But lyke as the Turkes in stede of the trew sauyour of the world worshyp the false deceyuer Machomet so Tyndale in stede of the trew catholyke chyrche of Chryst of whych chyrch Chryst wolde that euery man sholde lerne the â—routh whyche the holy goste by Chrystes promyse techeth and euer shall tech vnto itâ— and whyche chyrche muste for that cause nedes be a congregacyoâ— knowen Tyndale taketh not onely a secrete scatered company vnknowen but also a rable of fals malycyouse heretykes techyng to the doctryne of goddes spyryt abydyng by Chrystes promyse in his catholyke chyrche euyn clene the contrary And also where as Chryst when he turned the brede into his own precyouse body the wyne into his blessed blode coÌ„mauÌ„ded the same to be done for euer in his chyrch after in remeÌ„brauÌ„ce of his passyoÌ„ dyd in so coÌ„mauÌ„dyng make a faythfull promyse y t hym selfe wolde be for euer with hys chyrch in that holy sacrameÌ„t for a perpetuall memory of hys bytter passyon that he suffered for vs wolde gyue hys owne flesshâ— that suffered passyon hys owne blode that was shedde in hys passyon to abyde perpetually with vs accordynge to hys owne wordes spoken vnto hys chyrche when he sayed I am with you all dayes vnto the ende of the worlde Tyndale wyll not now byleue that promyse at all but as I haue in my fyrst boke by hys owne wordes proued you maketh mockes and mowes at that blessed sacrament and calleth it but cake brede and reasoneth it rather for starche full lyke a starke heretyke god wote and sayth it is neyther body nor bloude at all And thus where he so hyghly magnifyeth the bylyefe of goddes promyses onely settynge all other artycles of the fayth as thynges of a seconde sorte hym selfe byleueth as ye se the promyses as lytell as the tother But now let vs go ferther in hys wordes se for what cause he sayth that none other errour in any thynge saue the promyses can be dampnable be they neuer so greate Lo thus he sayth Tyndale In other thynges that be not the promyses theyr errours be not vnto dampnacyon though they be neuer so greate bycaâ—se they holde them not malycyously As now yf some when they rede in the new testament of Chrystes bretherne wolde thynke that they were our ladyes chyldren after the byrth of Chryst bycause they knowe not the vse of the spekynge of the scrypture or of the Hebrues how that nygh kynnesmen be called bretherne or happely they myghte be Iosephes chyldren by some fyrste wyfe neyther can haue any to teache hym for Tyranny that is so greate yet coude it not hurte hym thowgh he dyed therin bycause it hurteth not the redempcyon that is in Chrystes blood For though she had none but Chryst I am therfore neuer the more saued neyther yet the lesse though she had had And in suche lyke an hundred that plucke not a mans fayth from Chryste they myghte erre and yet be neuer the lesse saued no though the coÌ„trary were wryteÌ„ in the gospell For as in other synnes as soone as they be rebuked they repent euen so here as soone as they were better tawght they sholde immedyately knowledge theyr errour and not resyste More Here haue ye good reders the reason and y e cause wherfore the trew membres of Tyndals chyrch can neuer synne dedely though they erre in any artycle that is no promyse be the article neuer so great The cause is sayth he bycause that lyke wyse as in all other synnes as soone as they be rebuked they repente euyn so as soone as they be better taught they repeÌ„t theyr errour and byleue the trouth and resyste not and for that cause it is no dedely synne in the mene season before they be rebuked and taught better all though they dyed in those errours were the artycles neuer so great and the contrary trouth wryten in the gospell so that they be none of the promyses Thys is the hole somme and effecte of thys hole chapyter though he tryfle with other thynges bytwene And therfore wyll we fyrste aske hym by what scrypture or by what reason he proueth that euery person whych is elected to be saued shall repent as soone as euer he is rebuked of any synne that he doth He wyll shew peraduenture that Dauid dyd so happely some other to That wyll be a very bare argumente Dauid was an electe person and he dyd so ergo euery elected person doth so Thys argument wyll be very lyke the forme of arguynge that yonge chyldren vse in grammer scholes Asinus meus habet
wordes as they be and as innocent and as simple as they seme yet in them meneth Tyndale couertly to come forthe with his poyson of false prechynge the predestinacyon of god with destrucion of the fre wyll of man concernynge any maner of deuoure of them selfe towarde the â—eleue and faythe For he â—â—neth here that god alway maketh the electes to se these thynges without any wyll of theyr owne any thynge workynge with god towarde the syght thereof and that all the reprobates that shal be dampned for lacke of the beleue be reprobated and reiected and lefte vnchosen and kept from the syght and perceyuynge of the thynges to be beleued without any demeryte or euyll deserte of theyr owne onely bicause god lyste nat to make them see And that Tyndale thus falsely meneth by those fayre playne wordes ye shall farther perceyue by other wordes of Tyndals owne wrytynge afterwarde in his answere to to the fyrste chapyter of the thyrde boke of my dyaloge For where as I there shewed that the very bokes of the scripture if selfe can nat make men beleue y t scripture nor very surely knowe whyche were the very true scripture of god and whiche were scriptures countrâ—fete sauyng that the catholyke churche techeth vs to knowe the scrypture and the spirite of god with mannes owne towardes and good endeuoure worketh in man the credulite and belefe by whiche we bothe beleue the churche in techyng vs whiche is the scripture also by whiche we beleue the thinges that are wrytten in the scrypture to this bycause I sayde there that whan we here the scrypture or rede it if we be nat rebellious but endeâ—our our selfe to beleue captyue and subdue our vnderstandyng to serue and folowe fayth prayenge for goddes gracious ayde and helpe god than worketh with vs and inwardely dothe inclyne our harte in to the assent of the thynge that we rede and after a lytell sparke of our faythe oâ—es had increaseth the credence in our incredilyte Tyndale to this in moâ—kage of mennes endeuour towarde the belefe and in scornynge that we wolde captyue our vnderstandyng into y e seruyce of fayth answereth me with an 〈◊〉 as exclamacion and cryenge out vpon my flesheâ—â—â—es and foly â—oâ—eth out his hyghe spirituall sentence in this 〈◊〉 oâ— Tyndale O hoâ—e betleblyâ—de is flesshely reason The wyll hath none operacion at all 〈◊〉 the workynge of faythe in my soule no more 〈◊〉 the chylde hathe in the begettynge of his fathe◠〈◊〉 sayeth Paule it is the gyfte of god and nat of vs. My 〈…〉 sâ—ewe â—e 〈…〉 or an appatent cause why yer my wyll haue any workynge at allâ— More Nowe perceyue you good christen reders what an vnchristen mynde this euyll christen man hathe in those wordes that seme so fayre and playne in this present chapyter For thoughe he speke nat out so plainly in this chapyter as he dothe after in his answere to my thyrde boke as ye haue here herde yet that he falsely meneth in eyther place alyke ye may yet more plainly perceyue by hys wordes y â— in this chapiter immedyatly folow which are such sa may be as well ioyned to his foresayde wordes of his answere vnto my thyrde boke as to the wordes vnto whiche they be knytte in this present chapyter In whiche whan he hathe sayed that god maketh his electes se theyr dampnation in y â— lawe and also the mercy that is layed vp for them in Christes bloode and therto what he wyll haue them do it foloweth than forthwith Tyndale And then when we se his mercy we loue hym agayne and chose hym and submytte our selues vnto his lawes to walke in them For when we erre not in wytte reason and iudgement we can not erre in wyll and choyse of thynges The choyse of mannes wyll doth naturally and of her owne accorde folow the iugement of a mannes reason whyther he iudge ryghte or wronge so that in techyng onely resteth the pyth of a mannes lyuynge More Now trust I good reders that it is inoughe that we perceyue and se what Tyndale entendeth in thys chapitre of the ordre of our eleccyoÌ„ and that for all hys great exclamacyon we be nat yet so betle blynd but that we spye well inough whyche way this wyly serpeÌ„t walketh and that he goth about vnder colour of the prayse and commendacyon of goddes predestinacionâ— and ordynaunce vtterly concernyng fayth to put a way the wurke of maÌ„nes fre wyll and yet ouer that though â—om what more couertely of trouthe concernyng all other good workes to And all be it that he seme here to gyue mannes wyll in maner lyke place in the acte of our loue toward god as he gyueth god in the worke of our belyefe and fayth in vs yet whan he is well perceyued he bryngeth all to suche ineuytable necessyte that both in the tone and the tother and in all maner of good workes he taketh vtterly away all manes of meryt from the good men and electes gyueth vnto the euyll peple and reprobatys an excuse for theÌ„ selfe and an occasion to lay the wight of there iuste dampnacioÌ„ to the vniustyâ—e of goddes eternall ordynaunce and moste ryghtuouse predestynacyon And yet are all hys reasons in thys greate mater so small that a man may nat well wyt whyther they be more wykked or more wyttelesse Nowe all be it that I shall purpose to treat of thys matter more at longe wyth Tyndale whan I shall come to the coÌ„nfutacion of hys fond answeres made vnto the thyrde fourth bokes of my dyaloge yet can I nat presently forbere som what to shewe you of hys abomynable errour in thys poynt And yet in good fayth me semeth no very great nede hys folyes after hys wordes of bothe the places brought forth and layde togyther be now so playne and euydent of them selfe For who is so betle blynde that seeth nat clerely y â— darke deuelysh heresye of thys hyghe spyrytuall heretyque that sayth it is a betle blynde fleshely reason to thynke that the good endeuour of the mannes parte in wyllyngly conformyng hym selfe towarde the fayth and captyuyng and subdewyng hys reason and vnderstandyng in to the obsequy and obedyent seruyce of belyefe shulde be no maner helpe nor furtheraunce towarde the gettyng of any â—rysten fayth but y â— the wyll hath none operacyon at all in the workynge of fayth in mannes soule no more than the chylde hath in the bygetting of his father For here ye se wel that we speke of suche as are of age and haue the vse of reason If mannes wyll had no more part towarde the attaynynge of the belyefe than the chylde hath in the bygettyng of hys owne father I se nat wherfore our sauyoure shulde call vppon the people and byd them do penaunce and beleue the gospell as he dothe in the fyrste chapytre of saynt Marke For though it be very trew that wythout goddes helpe and goddes grace preuentyng and foregoyng no man can
be saued and therfore bycause of that felynge faythe with whiche he was borne of god he coulde nat consent vnto synne Uery well Than if a reprobate had done the lyke vpon the like occasyon or greatter he had synned dedely for lacke of felynge faythe onely bycause he was nat elected And if he repented alyke vpon lesse occasyon yet he shulde nat be forgyuen for lacke of y e felynge faythe which was neuer gyuen hym but euer kept from hym onely bycause he was nat elected If I aske Tyndale here howe he knoweth or why he beleueth that Dauid was elected to saluacyon what wyll he answere He wyll nat say I am sure bycause the church so techeth hym leste I shulde aske hym agayne whyche churche For than were he forced to graunte that he beleueth the techyng of this comen knowen catholyke churche of ours sythe that his owne vnknowen churche can teche hym nothyng to be the better beleued vpon the credence of that churche nat beynge knowen for the churche Nowe shall he nat fynde as farre as I remembre any playne euident scripture prouing his finall saluacion Than if Tyndall answere that he fyndeth in scripture of his faythe and his repentaunces and nothynge of hys fynall dampnacyon and therfore he beleueth of these lykelyhedes that he was electe to the fynall saluacyon and shall come to heuen at the day of dome for Tyndales secte beleueth nat that he shall come thyther afore I wyll nat here preace vpon hym with y e samples of suche as he hath sene here lyue well beleue well after his owne opinyon bothe whyle he beleued well hym selfe and syns he beleued wronge of whose saluacyon yet he maketh nat him selfe so sure as of the saluacyon of Dauid but holdynge my selfe for this tyme satisfyed that he beleue it so well vpon good likelyhedes that he shulde nat beleue a man that wolde without good profe tell hym the contrary I shall no more but praye hym to be so resonable and so indifferent agayne towarde vs as to gyue vs leaue in lykewyse to beleue vpon good lykelyhedes that Dauid consented to synne and nat to beleue him that without good profe wolde with his bare worde make vs wene the contrary and boldely bere vs in hande that whyle he wrought so moche wyckednes he was all y e while a slepe In whiche poynte as I haue before proued in another chapyter by lyke mater if he were so a slepe his very fyrste fallynge into suche a slepe was hys owne wylfull neclygence whyle he beginnynge to be moued vnto leudenes at the fyrste syght of Bethsabe stode styll and fedde hys deuelysshe delyte in beholdynge her and thereby wyllyngly suffred the dethe of synne to entre into his hart by the glas wyndowes of his eyenâ— wheruppon all that euer he dyd after pursuyng therupon all had he bene in such rage that he neyther wyste what he dyd nor where he were shulde haue bene imputed vnto hym as he that synfully drynketh hym selfe dronke dedely synneth and shall dye also yf he kyll a man in that dronkenesse Nor it excuseth nat Dauid nor no man elles that Tyndale sayeth There is no man so good but that there cometh a tyme vppon hym in whyche he fealeth in hym selfe no more fayth or loue vnto god then a syke man oftymes feleth the taste of his meate â— whyther thys happeneth vnto the best men or nat god wote I can nat tell I wote nat what affeccions they fele for I am none of them nor I fere me Tyndale neyther as wyse and experte as he maketh hym selfe of theyr felynge wolde god we were bothe of the beste so the beste were neuer the worse nor waxen as euyll as we and we made theyr matches in that maner wyse But this dare I surely saye that whan so euer the best is in such case it excuseth nat Dauid fro dedely synne For than is the â—este very nought And fynally for conclusyon of Dauid his dedes where Tyndale sayeth he coulde nat synne dedely bicause he was an electe for whiche cause god kepte hym thorowe the felynge fayth from consentynge to the seruyce of synne and fro the malyciouse castynge of of the yoke of goddes commauÌ„dementes from hys necke it appereth wery well that of hys necke was it ones whyther hym selfe caste it of or Bethsabe toke it of bycause he shulde not come yoked to bedde For well we wote it hylde hym not wythin y e hedge of goddes commaundementes but that he thruste hys hed thorow and brake a couple of them and ranne vnyoked a good whyle And it wyll I wene well appere also that he caste of the soke hym selfe then wyll all the dowte stande vppon thys onely worde malycyously whyche worde how Tyndale taketh that can I not tell but excepte he take it for no malyce by cause it was all for loue Ellys yf he agre that the contempte and dyspysynge of goddes lawe maye be called malyce and a malycyouse castynge of of the yoke of goddes lawe bothe fro loue and drede as I wene it is expouned in god almyghtys vocabulary then drede I no thynge but that it wyll well appere agaynste Tyndale all the hole mater bothe that Dauyd agreed and consented to synne wylfully caste of goddes yoke malycyousely to This wyll well appere I say by pâ—ayne euydeÌ„t scrypture For after those horryble synnes so comytted by Dauid hys dedely dedes so dyspleased god as it is wryten in the xii chapyter of the seconde boke of kynges that he sent Nathan the prophete vnto hym whyche by the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t of god after y â— he had put vnto hym the parable of the rych man that toke away the pore mannes shepe therby made hym gyue sentence vnware agaynst hym selfe he sayd forther vnto Dauid as in the person of almyghty god in this maner wyse as foloweth why haste thou then set my worde at nought and done euyll in my syghte Thou haste kylled wyth swerd Uryah Hetheus and hys wyfe hast thou taken to thy wyfe hym hast thou slayne wyth the swerde of the sonnes of Ammon And therfore the swerde shall neuer be taken awaye from thy howse bycause thou hast despysed me and taken to thy wyfe the wyfe of Uryah Hetheus And therfore thus sayth our lord Byholde I shall reyse vp euyll agaynst the euen out of thyne owne howse I shall take awaye froÌ„ the thy wyues before thy face gyue theÌ„ vnto one y t is nyghest vnto the he shall lye with them in y â— syght of this sonne For thou haste comytted thys dede pryuely but I wyll accomplyshe this my worde in y e syght of all Israell this sonne Lo good reders here se ye very clere that where as Tyndale sayth that Dauid in all those horryble dedes dyd yet no dedely synne bycause he sayeth he consented not to synne nor dyde none of these dedes wyllyngly nor cast not of the yoke of loue towarde the lawe
doubte is there but that some man may ryghte well haue the cure of dyuers parisshes and good causes why he so shulde and do more good in them bothe thaâ— some other shulde in one But as for this poynte Tyndale meaneth moche farther than he speketh and entendeth hereafter if it be well alowed concernynge popes and prâ—estes than to drawe that lyne a lytle longer and loke whether he may make the reason stretche a lytle farther as he hathe done a lytle in some parte of hâ—s wryting all redy whiche we shall answere I truste well ynoughe whan we come ones to the propre places Nowe where he sayeth that whore kepers and suche other as saynt Poule forbyddeth vs the company the pope with vyolence compellâ—th vs to haue in honoure and to receyue the sacramentes of them and to here their masses and to beleue all that that they say This is a very lowdelye For the pope letteth you nat to complayne vpon them and the lawes of the churche be that for their crymes they shal be suspended from the medelynge and adminystracion of suche thynges and somtyme deposed of theyr offyces depriued of theyr benefyces and degraded of their orders to And therfore the pope compâ—lleth hym nat with vyolence to do them honoure in their vyces And if there were any that dyd he were in the doynge an euyll pope as he were an euyll man But what were the faute of an euyll pope to the offyce of the papacy excepte that Tyndale wyl reproue and rebuke euery kynge and prynce and wolde haue none at all bycause that some of theym somtyme do not alway theyr dewtye or wyll lay to the prynces charge yf any offycer vnder hym do not euery man such ryght as the prynce wolde he sholde and trusteth also that he dothe Now where he sayth that the pope compelleth hym to byleue all that euery suche preste sayth y â— is yet another lye ones agayne For yf the preste say salse preche heresyes as yf he wold say that all the seuen sacrameÌ„tes be but bare sygnes tokens that freres may lawfully wedde nuÌ„nes the pope compelleth no man with violence to byleue that preste nor compelled not Tyndale neyther agaynste the playne scrypture of god in suche frantyke heresyes to byleue y â— lewd lernyng of Luther frere Huyskyn Denckiê° Baltasar Lambert and Suinglius of all whyche neuer one byleueth other But the pope is well content so wold it sholde be that yf the preste preche suche heresyes folke shall not byleue hym but accuse hym and haue hym reformed reuoke them and abiure them or ellys let degrade hym and delyuer hym and let the prynces kepe hym from the people wherof to be sure and for auoydynge of such he resyes by the terrour of that ensample good chrysten prynces cause faythfull people to burne hym Buf then is there one thyng wherwyth Tyndale is sore dyspleased that the pope wyll not as he sayth let hym and hys felowes se whyther the preste say well or no. If the preste be accused of hys doctryne he is as I saye broughte vnto examynacyon to wytte whyther he sayed trewth or no. what other way wolde Tyndale haue It is playne inough what he meneth in thys mater He meneth therin nothynge ellys but that he wolde haue all thyng so ferforth sette at large that he myght brynge fyrst in dowte and questyon and after in errours and heresyes vpon the questyon euery poynt of Crystes catholike fayth that god hath by hys holy blessed spyryte in .xv. C. yere taught hys catholyke chyrche And then all thynges ones brought in that euangelycall liberty that euery man may byleue euen as hym lyst and after that lyue euyn as hym lyste to with out any lorde or any lawe to lette hym then lo to make the gospell truely taught take awaye in any wyse all the clergye clene and let Tyndall sende his women prestes about the worlde to preche And nowe good christen reders here haue ye harde all his fyue reasons by whiche in stede of that he shulde haue proued that is to wytte that the knowen catholike church of all chrysten people is nat the churche of Christ in â—rthe he hathe taken vpon hym to proue all besyde the purpose fyrst that the pope and his secte and after yet farther fro the purpose that the pope and the spirytualtie be nat the churche And of that whiche shulde be his purpose that is to wytte that the knowen catholike church is nat the churche he hathe nat spoken one worde And yet fynally concernynge that he hathe goone about to proue touchynge the pope and the spiritualtie he commeth forthe as ye se nowe with his fyue reasons that ye haue redde in the makynge of which fyue reasons a man may meruayle where were vanysshed a way all his fyue wyttes for any pece of his purpose that appereth proued in them all but if we râ—ken raylynge for reason and shameles open lyes for good and sufficient proues And therfore here ende I this boke in whiche if Tyndale haue sayd any thinge to the purpose at all I am content to graunt hym that he hath sayd well in all and fully proued all to gether Here endeth the fyfte boke and begynneth the syxte where in is auoyded the solucyons of Tyndale wherwith he wolde disproue the fyrste reason prouynge that the knowen catholyke churche is the trewe churche of Chryst. whiche fyrste reason is that all the sectes of heretykes do come out of the catholyke churche ¶ The syxte boke The defence of the fyrst argument agaynste Tyndale Tyndale Tâ—e argumentes wherwith the pope wolde proue hym selfe the chyrche are solued More THys is the tytle of hys chapyter wherin he desceÌ„deth by degrees as ye se ferther downe from hys purpose thenne euer he dyd before For where as before in stede of the whole catholyke chyrche he desceÌ„ded to the clergy alone whych is but the tone parte here he leueth all them to maketh as though men called the whole catholyke chyrche no mo but the pope hym selfe that is to wytte an whole greate maigne multytude of many sundry states maners condycyons and kyndes no moo but one man alone Is not thys geâ—e by Tyndale well and comely deuysed And yette forthwyth to shewe hys forther constaunce when he commeth to the mater selfe he turneth it agayne fro the pope alone to the whole company of the clergye dyssymulyng alway styll the temporalâ—ye as though there were of them neyther man nor woman of the chyrche wher in I wolde haue excused hys one falshed by hys other and wolde haue sayd that he ment accordynge to hys heresye that in the clergye were all togyther coÌ„teynâ—d bycause he maketh euery man and euery woman bothe a preste But that excuse he taketh awaye hym selfe and that euyn by by when in the next wordes folowynge he declareth that he speketh of no mo then onely suche as be so shamelesse that they suffer them selfe
that in mo places then one yet shall oure olde marke of olde holy doctours and sayntes marke hym for an heretyke agayn For I am sure he shall not lyghtely fynde any of those olde but that he vsed allegoryes Luther and Tyndale wolde haue all allegoryes and all other senses taken awaye sauynge the lytterall sense alone But god whose plentuouse spyryte endyghted the scrypture foresaw full well hym selfe that many godly allegories holy men sholde by hys inspyracyon at dyuers tymes draw out therof And somtyme he endyghted it our sauyour hym self somtyme spake his wordes in such wyse that the letter had none other sense then mysteryes allegoryes as comeÌ„ly all his parables be of which he expowned some him self some he expouned not but hath left theÌ„ to be expowned by holy doctours after hys deth and some of them hath he holpeÌ„ dyuerse to expoune dyuersly as his hygh wysdome saw that dyueâ—s good frute sholde folowe and ensew theruppon Somtyme also though the lyterall sense be full good yet dothe god gyue the grace to some man to fynde oute a ferther thynge therin whyche sence god that endyghted the letter dyd when he made it fore seeâ— and more dyd sette therby then by the sense that immedyately ryseth vppon the letter whych letter hys hygh wysdome so tempered for the nones that suche other sense myghte be perceyued therin and drawen out therof by suche as hym selfe had determyned to gyue the grace to fynde it And for ensample our lorde sayth in the booke of Deuteronomy Thou shall not bynde the mouthe of the oxe as he goth in the flowre and thressheth the corne The very letter is of it selfe good and techeth men a certayne reason and iustyce to deale well and â—ustely euyn wyth the very bestes that labour wyth them to abhorre wythout good cause eyther to pyne them or payne them Now thoughe this sentence be goodâ— and the Iewes were bounden by the letter of the law to order theym selfe in that wyse towarde theyr oxen seynge no ferther therin nor some so farre neyther peraduenture yet dyd thapostâ—e fynde out an other secrete sense therin and that sense suche as in respecte therof he set the tother at nought and shewed that god ment therby that the preste which laboreth spyrytually in his offyce muste haue his temporall lyuynge therfore And to proue that the spyryte of god entended thys sense and vnderstandynge therin â—e sayth Careth god awght for the oxen as though he wolde saye nay And yet in dede god careth and prouydeth for the lyuynge of euery lyuynge thynge For it is wryten in the psalme that god geueth the mete to the bestes and to the yonge byrdes of the crows that calle vppon hym And our sauyour sayth hym selfe Loke ye vpon the byrdes of the ayre they neyther sowe nor spynne and yet your father that is in heuyn fedeth them And thus it apereth that god careth for the fedynge of all that euer he hath made But yet saw saynte Poule that god so myche cared for the prestes leuynge aboue that he careth for the oxes leuynge that in respecte of the tone compared wyth the tother god cared not for the oxe at all but wolde we sholde vnderstande therby that we sholde in any wyse prouyde that the preste whyche laboreth wyth vs in spyrituall besynes shold haue of vs his temporall leuynge And I wene Tyndale is euen angre wyth saynte Poule for that exposycyon Now are there many other textes in the olde law which in lyke wyse receyue lyke exposycyon by goodly and frutefull allegoryes as in the olde holy saynts bokes appereth All whych will Tyndale here haue wyped oute in any wise and wyll haue none allegoryes at all Holy saynt Hierome expowneth by an allegorye the text of scrypture that the holy prophete Dauid by the coâ—Ì„saylâ— of his physycyons when he waxed very colde for ageâ— toke to wyfe besyde all his other wyues the fayrest yonge mayden that coulde be founden in all the countre aboute to do hym pleasure in his presence by daye and lye in his armes and kepe hym warme a nyghtes Thys texte was trew in dede And yet doth that holy doctour saynt Hiâ—rom in all that euer he can drawe from the consyderacyon of the letter to the lokynge vppon the allegorye For be the wordes of the texte neuer so trewe yet thoughte as â—t semeth that blessed holy saynte that god caused that storye to be wryten in the scripture rather for the frute that folke shall take by some good holesome allegorye that god wold in to some man inspyre theruppoÌ„ then to make vs 〈◊〉 studye and dyuyse vppon the onely sample of kynge Dâ—uyds dede wherby some olde husbandes wolde lerne to let his olde wyfe lye and take colde in a bedde alone and â—â—m self take a yonge prety prym to bed to kepe his bakke warme for physyke Fynally I dare well say that the allegoryes wryten vppon the texte of holy scrypture be very frutefull what so euer Tyndale say and ellys wolde god neuer haue suffred so many blessed holy men bystowe so myche tyme aboute theym but that hym selfe both foresaw the fruteâ— and deuysed those textes in suche wyse also that thorow good folkes laboure wyth the swete warmth of his owne inspyâ—acyon such holsome frute shold plentuously sprynge thâ—rof Go me now thorow all these poyntes agayn that Tyndale hath vnder the name of the clergy layed agaynste the catholyke chyrche crepynge vp in to thapostles place respecte of lucre ledynge in a wronge way begylynge the people makynge of constytucyons vsynge of ceremonyes takynge away the sygnyfycacyons of sacrameÌ„tes and makynge of false gloses and ye shall fynde good chrysten reders of all these fautes that they falsely ley to our charge theyr owne bosoms full For theyr archeheretykes accompte theym selfe for the prechers and chalenge the apostles place not by succession but by inuasyon For they go and preache and be not sent and though pryde prykke them forth wyth lybertye to lechery yet not wythout lucre neyther For some one of them puttynge oute hys felowes such as wyll be religyouse and contynue chaste kepeth all theyr leuynge alone sauynge for an harlot taken vnto hym to be called hys wyfe and gete vppe a couent of bastardes betwene theym and then they begyle the people wyth theyr false preachynge lede them a very wronge way excepte the strayght wey to hell be the ryght waye to heuen Now as for coÌ„stytucyons wherof they wold haue none amonge vs theym selfe haue ben fayne in some cytyes of Almayne as late as they be bygonne to make mo constytucyons and more bourdenouse to the people more greuous and more sore to kepe vppe theyr heresyes wyth then the chyrche hath made in many yeres to kepe vp the trew chrysten fayth Ceremonyes also whyche amonge vs they mokke and call them duÌ„me Marten Luther hym self Tyndales great mayster after that he had lefte theym of was
now to be of the same harte and mynde that the olde holy fathers haue ben of in olde tyme. And how wyll thys holy baptyste do all thys gere and thus turne the hartes of the chyldren and the fathers all in to one surley by techynge the chyldren as well in fayth as lyuynge the very clene contrary of all that euer theyr olde holy fathers thys .xv. hundred yere haue taughte them with tellyng vs that all the olde fathers were â—yke the false pharyseys and corrupted the scrypture as pharyseys dyd wyth false gloses teachynge good workes and sacramentes and kepyng of holy vowes and suche other synfull superstycyons And therfore doth thys holy new baptyste to purge and puryfye the people byd vs now byleue that to breke the vowe of chastyte is a good wurke and well done and that all other good wurkes be nought worth and baptysme as lytell worth bycause y e presâ—e speketh to the chyld in laten a langage that the chyld vnderstandeth not as he sholde full well ye wote well yf the tale were tolde hym in hys mother tong Then techeth he vs that confessyon is the deuyls inuencyon and absolucyon ys but whystelynge Satysfaccyon greate synne to do any The sacrament of wedlocke he sayeth is suche that he coulde make as good a sacrament of an olde nette sauyng onely when freres wedde nonnes for thaÌ„ is it holy in suche holy folke The sacrament of holy order he iesteth vpon wyth shauyn and shorne and oyled waggyng of the bysshoppes hand and saynt Poules hand layde vppon Tymothe but lyke a mannes hande layed on a boyes hedde and call hym good sonne The sacrament of extreme vnccioÌ„ he calleth but gresynge the syke man The sacrameÌ„t of confyrmacyon he calleth but smeryng of the chyldes face and butterynge of the boyes forehed The holy blessed sacrament of the aulter the very precyouse body and bloude of our sauyour hym self this holy new baptyste forbedyth to haue any honour done vnto it but onely take it for a memoryall of hys passyoÌ„ And then he iesteth theron hym selfe sayth that it is no thyng ellys but wyne and cake brede excepte it be peraduenture turned into starch Lo good Chrysten readers here is the doctryne of thys nowe baptyste not saynt IohnÌ„ Baptyâ—te but syr wyllyam Baptysteâ— thys holy wyllyam Tyndale otherwyse called Huchyn scolare to frere Huyskyn whyche hath here made you of the synagoge scrybes and pharyseys such a goodly paynted processe as he hath now tolde you twyse a serued you wyth a Iak of Parys an euyll pye twyse baken to declare you twyse the greate frute and profyte that the world maye now taken yf it wyllâ— by hys holy comynge into it to preche and rebuke the pharisaycall doctrine of all the olde holy sayntes and teche hys owne godly chryâ—ten heresyes suche as ye now haue herde And now yf thys gere be good then haue we surely great cause to thanke god For then can we lacke none holy baptystes to preche vs. For there is not I wene so pore a vyllage in chrystendome in whyche there is dwellynge any one vyllayne knaue but he maye be wythin thre dayes yf he be not all redy suche an other baptyste as thys is and rebuke all that good is wyth suche abomyâ—able blasphemye as now Tyndale doth yf any chrysten mannes â—aâ—ys can abyde the herynge But yet remember good readers that in the conclusyon of all that tale he knytteth it vp with a fresh lusty poynte and soyleth all the reason in thys wyse Tyndale Now make this reason vnto IohnÌ„ Baptist and vnto many prophetes that went before hym and dyd as he dyd ye and vnto â—rysâ—e hym selfe and his apostles and thou shalt â—ynde theÌ„ all heretykes and the scribes and pharysyes good men yâ— that reason be good More Thys poynte is lo the olde poynte whych here and in hys solucyon to the â—yrst reason he hath put forthe four or fyue tymes before sauynge that he gyueth allway hys old poynt at one ende or other some newe aglette But when all hys coste is done theron it is not all worth an aglet of a good blewe poynt For I haue in my syxte boke answerynge hys solucyon to the fyrste reason shewed you many answeres that saynt IohnÌ„ and Cryste and hys apostles and other pore folke to very farre vnder them myght saye for them selfe agaynâ—te the scrybes and pharyseys whyche thinges neyther Luther nor Tindale nor none of all theyr sectes can say for theÌ„ selfe agaynste the catholyke chyâ—che And yet more shall I shew you of the same sorte when ye haue hard what Tyndale can here saye for hym selfe Aâ—ter all whych thynge harde well wayed ye shall well and clerely perceyue that for Tyndales tale the reason of saynt Austayne that Tyndale here speketh of beynge made by the Iewes agaynste saynt IohnÌ„ and Cryste and his apostles shall haue no strength at all neyther to proue theym euyll nor the pharysyes good And yet the same reason beynge by the catholyque chyrche made agaynst Tyndale and Luther and Huyskyn and Swynglius muste nedes proue the catholyque chyrch to be the very chyrch of Cryst and that Luther and Tyndale and all they with all those that byleue them be playne vndouted heretyques And therfore let vs fyrst se with what euasion Tyndale wyll auoyde this reason for hym selfe and his own sectes And then what Cryste can saye more for hym selfe and his company we shall se somwhat after Tyndale lo teacheth his dyscyples to answere the reason thus Tyndale Therfore this wyse thou maysâ—e answere No thankes vnto the 〈…〉 that chyrche that the scrypture was kepte but vnto the merâ—y of go◠〈◊〉 as they had destroyed the ryght sense oâ— yt for theyr â—â—â—re saâ—e â—uen 〈…〉 they haâ—e destroyed yt also had they câ—ulde rather tâ—â—n â—he people shol◠〈◊〉 come vnto the ryght vnderstandyng of yt as they 〈◊〉 the trâ—we interpretâ—uâ—s and preachers of yt And euen so no thâ—â—â—â—es vnto our ypocrites that the scrypture is kepte but vnto the botomlesâ—e mercy of god For as they haue destroyed the ryght sence of yt wyth theyr seuen anâ— as they destroye dayly the trewe preachers oâ— yt and as they â—eâ—e yt from the laye people that they shold not se how they 〈◊〉 wyth yt euen so 〈◊〉 they destroye yt also coulde they bryng yt aboutâ— rather then we shulde come by the trewe vnderstandynge of yâ— were yt not that god prouyded otherwyse for vs. For they haue put the storyes that shuld in many thynges helpe vs clene oute of the waye as nye as they coulde They haue corrupte the â—egende and lyues almoste of all sayntes They haue fayned false â—okes and put them forth some in the name of saynt Hiâ—rome some in the name oâ— saynte Austayne in the name of saynte Cypriane saynte Dyonyse and other holy men â—hych are proued none of theyrs partely by the style and latyne and partly by auteÌ„tyke storyes And as the Iewes hâ—ue
be burned here in Englande by the meane of his own bokes As Baynam the iangler and Hytton y â— Ioyner Teukesbery the purser and Bâ—yfeld thaposâ—ata a worshyppefull sort oâ— preachers And yet shall Tyndale fynde none of all these or any other that I haue herde of here but that he eyther though he helde some of Tyndalys yet he forsoke as false some parte of Tyndals heresyes or held as trew some such thynge besyde as Tyndale wolde I wote well yf hym selfe were apposed afferme to be very falsâ— And of this yf Tindale dare deny it I shall playnely proue both the partes And therfore let Tyndale of those that hâ—ue ben burned here chose whych he lyste and name of thâ—ym all some one that he wyll call a trewe prechour and than shall I proue you shortely that yf that prechour be trew Tyndale shall euyn by that prechour whom hym self wyll name for trewe be playnely proued false Then rayleth he ferther on and sayth They 〈…〉 ture from the laye people that they shâ—â—â—e not 〈…〉 I haue in the boke of my dyaloge proued all redyâ— that Tyndale doth in thys poynt falsely belye the clergye and that of trouth wyclyffe and Tyndale and frere Barns suche other haue bene the onely cause for whych the scrypture hath ben of necessyte kept out of the lay peoples handes and that of late specyally by the polytyke prouysyon and ordynaunce of our most excellent souerayne the kynges noble grace not wythoute greate and vrgent causes manyfestely rysynge vppon the false malycyouse meanes of wyllyam Tyndale for whych all the lay people of this realme bothe the euyll folke that take harme by hym and the good folke that lese the profyte by hymâ— haue greaâ—â— cause to lament that euer that man was borne Then forth he goeth on ferther in hys lyes and saythâ— They haue put the storyes that sholde in many thynges 〈…〉 waye as nygh as thâ—y coulde How proueth Tyndale thys lye of hys to be trewe â— let hym proue hys lye trewe in some one story that the chyrche hath put awaye and then tell vs thys tale agayn For they neuer put any awaye but suche as were fayned gospels and fables whyche the chyrche by the spyryte of god whose gyfte Luther confesseth it to haue in that poynte dyd euer more consyderately reiecte and auoyde as it partely appereth by saynt Hierom concernynge the booke of the infancye of our sauyour But fayne wolde Tyndale haue some such fals fayned storyes remayne taken for scrypture to th ende enteÌ„t that as his hâ—resyes be by the very scrypture coÌ„futed and reproued so they myght be by some such false scrypture mayntayned agayne allowed But then rayleth Tyndale ferther yet and lyeth agayn agaynst the chyrche and sayth They haue corrupted the legende and lyues all moste of all sayntes who hath corrupted these legendes let hym name some one and proue it or els let hym leue of hys lyenge The legendes of sayntes lyues were wryten in dyuers tymes as the sayntes in dyuerse tymed lyued and in dyuâ—rs dyed of whose lyues the chyrch none other knoweth but as they fynde wryten or herde by good folke that knew them sauyng that the spyryte of god by whych it knoweth and dyscerneth as saynt Austayn sayth Luther hym selfe alloweth whych is the very scrypture shall not suffre it as that holy doctour saynt Thomas sayth to erre and be deceyued in takynge for a saynt any dampned person therby geue to goddes enemye the honour dew to hys frende And by thys spyryt what so euer be wryten in the legende of any saynte the chyrche dyscerneth yf any thyng were at any tyme in the good man a mysse so taketh it as a faute for the tyme and afterwarde amended as we rede of some of Crystes owne apostles reported in the very gospell And the chyrche also doth not precysely bynde any man to the bylyef of euery thyng wryten in a legend as though euery sayntes legende were parte of the scrypture of god But the thynge that Tyndale is offended wyth is this that the legendes of sayntes testyfye theyr holy lyuynge myracles that god shewed for them wherof we fynde no legende lyke that euer was wryten for any saynt that in obstynate heresyes departed dyed out of y e catholike chyrch Now confesseth Tyndale that all the sayntes legendes be not so corrupted but he saith almost all In which word he sayth inough for vs agaynst hym selfe For let hym leue neuer so few tell vs which they be and I dowte not then in good fayth but that we shall in that fewe fynde thynges inough to proue hys heresyes false yet goth he ferther agaynste the chyrche and sayth They haue fayned false bookes and put them forth some in the name of saynt Hierâ—m some in the name of saynt Augustyne and in the name of saynt Cipryane saynt Deonyse and other holy men whych are proued nâ—ne of theyrs partely by style and laten â—nd partely by autentyke storyes Here wolde he fayne good chrysten reders bryng vs all in dowte of all the olde holy doctours wurkes bycause he were lothe by hys wyll that any were of them all byleued But what great harme and losse were there in the mater though it somtyme happed the boke of one good holy man to be named the boke of an other as a boke of saynte Austayn to be taken for a boke of saynt Ambrose There were in such a mater no very great hurte yf it so happed in dede But to the entent that ye shall playnely perceyue that thys tale of Tyndale wherwyth he wold fayne blynde vs shall nothynge serue for hys purpose let hym take the bokes of whyche hym selfe nothynge douteth and euyn by y t selfe same shall he fynde hys opynyons proued playne heresyes Or ellys let Tyndale fynd vs in some of theyr trew bokes whych he douteth not to be theyr owne in dede let hym proue I saye by theym that all those bokes be falsely put out in theyr names in whych bokes he fyndeth yf they be trewe all holy saintes agre agaynst hym selfe that good wurkes are merytoryouse that folkes do well to honour sayntes theyr relyques and go in pylgrymages and to praye for all chrysten soules to honour the blessed sacrameÌ„t and that it is abominable for freres to wedde nonnes such other thynges lyke Let Tindale I say fynde vs the contrary of these â—alys taught vs in theyr trewe bokes or els let hym tell vs no more of hys own tale but leue of his lyes lyke a fole And fyrst for the meane whyle the boke in whych saynt Austayn maketh thys reason that we now talke of for the catholyke chyrch Tyndale doth hym selfe coÌ„fesse to be the very boke of saynt Austayne And then doth this râ—ason alone playnely perfytely proue this knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste consequently therby proueth Tindale that techeth the
where he myght gete oute For bysydes that yt appereth playne by saynte Hierome that there were at that tyme the same vyces in the catholyke chyrche that are now all saue weddynge of folke that hadde vowed chastyte I saye that in the place where saynte Austayne wryteth those wordes â—e speketh neuer a worde that the vertuouse lyuynge oâ—â—he chyrche caused hym to byleue it nor nothyng in that place speketh of the vertuouse lyuynge of the chyrche nor of tâ—e persecucyon but in many other places he confesâ—eth that the chyrche then was as we se yt nowe is a congregacyon and company of both good and badde And that in this boke wryten agaynst Cresconiâ—s he alledgeth that holy martyr saynt Cypriane and râ—hersâ—â—h his wordes wryten in hys pystle that he wrote vnto Maximus by whyche he sheweth that men maye not leue the chyrche bycause of the euyll fâ—â—â—e that be therin For in the chyrche there be both good and badde as there are in the feld of god wherof Cryste speketh in the gospell both good corne and cocle and in a great house as saynt Poule saith to Timothe there are not only golden vessellis and syluer but also trene and erthen These wordes of holy saynte Cypriane doth holy Austayn reherse and approue wherby meÌ„ may well perceyue that both saynt Cypryane and saynt Austayn to dyd take the chyrch for none other then the knoweÌ„ catholyke chirch and knewe that chyrche ryght well not for a companye of onely good men but of goâ—d and badde bothe and so be they sâ—yll what euer Tyndale say But yet this one thyng dyd both saynt Cyprian saint Austayne say that of all â—hat departe oute of this chyrche there is not one good nor can not be good vntyll in harte they resorte therto agayne And for that cause is yt called holy chyrche not for that euery man is holy that is in yt but for that many suche be in yt and none can be holy that wyll not be in yt And to th entent that ye may the more clerely perceyue that Tyndale here to blynd vs wyth deuyseth of his own hedde this euasyon that saynte Austayne byleued not the chyâ—che in his days but bycause of theyr constaunce in persecucyon and theyr holynesse of lyuynge who so loke vppon the place where he wryteth those wordes that is to witin his boke agaynste the pystle of Manicheus theretyke of whose secte saynte Austayne hadde ben onys hym selfe wythout any coÌ„syderacyon of persecucion or holy lyuyng layeth other consyderacyons that made hym know and byleue the catholyke chyrche of hys dayes that is to wytte the consent of the catholyke chrysten nacyons and that he had the catholyke chyrche in authoryte fyrst for the myracles that were shewed therin and that therupon his fayth and credence geuen therunto was nurysshed and fosâ—ered wyth hope encreaced wyth cheryte and confermed with antiquite There helde hym he sayd in the gyuynge of fayth and credence to the catholyke chyrche thys thynge also that is to wyt that he sawe the successyon contynued in the see of saynt Peter to whom our lorde had after his resurreccyon coÌ„mytted the fedynge of his shepe sayth saynt Austayne from saynt Peters dayes vnto hys owne tyme. And fynally euyn the very name he sayth of catholyke that is to say vniuersall gaue toward the gettyng of his credence the catholyke chyrche great anthoryte whych name of vniuersall the same chyrche alone amonge so many heresyes hadde so obtayned that where as euery secte of heretykes wold fayne be taken for catholykes yet yf a strauÌ„ger shold come amonge them aske where were any catholyke chyrche that he myghte go to there were none heretyke y â— durst for shame bryng hym to any chyrch or any house of theyrs These causes â—o â—ayed saynt Austayne all whyche causes are in the catholyke chyrch styll these he layd I say for the authoryte of the catholyke chyrch for whyche he sayde he gaue so fast fyrme vndouted credence to it that for y â— authoryte therof he byleued the gospell at the teching therof And these causes he layd vnto the heretykesâ— as â—â—uâ—es that he thought shold of reason moue them therto also And yet to the entent ye shall the more clerely seâ— howâ— Tyndale wolde wyth hys lyes blynde vs and what ferme credence saynt Austayn gaue to the knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrche wythout mencyon of eyther persecucyon or vertuâ—use lyuynge as Tyndale wolde here make vs wene I shâ—ll translate and reherse you here saynt Austayns owne â—â—â—des wryten in the fyfth chapyter of hys sayd boke agaynst the pystle of Manicheus In whych place saynt Austayne dysputeth agaynst the heretykes of that secte and proueth them that lyke as he that byleueth the catholyke chyrche hath good suretye of hys bylyefe is able to shewe good causes of his bylyefe all thoughe there were no scrypture wryten so on the tother syde the Manycheys bycause they byleued not the catholyke chyrche and lykewyse who so euer byleueth it not can neuer proue any thynge for theyr purpose neyther to hym that byleueth not the scrypture nor yet vnto hym neyther that doth byleue the scrypture And therfore saynt Austayn hauyng rehersed before what thynges be suffycyent to make hym byleue the catholyke chyrche bysyde the scrypture doeth nowe in thys chapyter dyspute wyth them shew them that they all suche heretykes as go fro the fayth of y e catholyke chyrch can neuer proue theyr parte good neyther to hym that refuseth the scrypture nor to hym that byleueth it And therin lo thus he sayth Let vs se therfore what Manicheus techeth me specyally let vs consyder the selfe same booke that ye call the pystle of the fundacyon in whyche is conteyned almoste all that ye byleue when that same pystle was redde vnto vs at that tyme wrechys that we were we were wont to vowe downe and say Amen Thus begynneth the pystle Manicheus the apostle of Iesu Chryst thorow the prouydence of god the father these be the holsome wordes issuynge out of the euer flowynge founteyne of lyfe Now I praye you and it please ye herken pacyentely what I shall aske you I byleue not thys man to be the apostle of Cryste I beseche you be not angry nor begynne to chyde ye knowe well that I am determyned nothynge rasshely to byleue that ye bryng forth I aske you therfore who is thys Manicheê°â— ye answere me y â— apostle of Crist. I bileue it not Now haue ye nothing that ye can eyther saye or do ye promysed to teche me and make me to know the trewth now ye wolde make me byleue the thyng that I know not ye wyll peraduenture rede me the gospell and labour to proue me the persone of Manicheus by the wordes of the gospell But now yf I shold fynde you out some man that yet byleued not the gospell what coulde ye then say for Manicheus to hym that wolde saye vnto you I
byleue not the gospell Now as for me I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche moued me therto Thenne syth I obeyd them in that they bode me byleue the gospell why shold I not byleue them in that they bydde me byleue not Manicheê° wyll ye now that I byleue the catholike chirch or not Chese now your selfe whyther parte ye wyll yf ye byd me byleue the catholyke chyrch they be those that byd me y â— I sholde not in any wyse gyue any credeÌ„ce vnto you wherfore byleuyng them I can in no wyse byleue you Then on the tother syde yf ye wolde saye to me byleue not the catholyke chyrch then can ye not of reason bynde me by the gospell to byleue Manicheus syth I had not byleued the gospell it selfe but for the catholyke chyrche Now yf ye wolde then say to me thou dydest well to byleue the catholyke chyrch in that they coÌ„meÌ„ded the gospel but thow doste not well to byleue them in y â— they dysprayse Manicheus wene ye me so very a fole that tellyng me no cause wherfore I shold byleue what so euer ye byd me and byleue in no wyse what ye lyste forbyd me yet mych more reasonably more cyrcuÌ„spectely do now I in that I dedeparte not from y e catholyke chyrche whych I haue onys byleued translate my selfe to you but yf that ye can fyrst not bydde and coÌ„maund me byleue but openly and clerely som what make me knowe wherfore good reason wolde I shold byleue wherfore yf ye wyll shew me any reason then let the gospell alone For yf you take you to y e gospel then wyll I take me to the chyrch by whose coÌ„maundement I byleued the gospell and then by the commaundement of the same chyrche I must in no wyse byleue yoâ— Now yf it so were that ye coulde by possybylyte fynde in the gospell somwhat that coulde clerely proue Manicheus to be Crystes apostle then must it folow theruppon yf I sholde byleue you therfore that I must then not byleue the catholyke chyrche 〈◊〉 byddeth me byleue not you And then agayn yf I 〈◊〉 not the chyrche then can I not byleue the gospell syth I byleue the gospell for the chyrche so could nothynge serue you that ye shold bryng of the gospell And therfore yf ye â—rynge no clere thyng out of y e gospell to proue Manicheus Crystes apostle I must rather byleue the catholyke chyrche then you And on the tother syde yf ye found for Manicheus any manyfest thynge in the gospell then coulde I neyther byleue the chyrche nor you not the chyrche bycause they lyed to me of you when they told me ye were not to be byleued nor you bycause ye proue your parte but by that scripture which scrypture I byleued not but thorow byleuyng them whom I â—ught not to byleue bycause they prouâ— them self false in makyng a lye of you But god forbyd that I shold not byleue the gospell for byleuyng the gospell I can not fynde how I shold byleue you For among all the apostles names y â— are there found y e name of Manicheê° it not fouÌ„d Lo good chrysten reders here se ye playnely that Tyndale is tellynge vs that saynt Austayne where he sayth he wolde not byleue the gospell it selfe sauynge for the authoryte of the chyrche dyd mene therin nothyng ellys but the good lyuynge that then was in the chyrche and theyr constaunce in persecucyoÌ„ ledde hym to bylâ—ue them in techyng whyche was the scrypture it well appereth I say by saynt Austayns owne wordes that the chyrche truely taketh his wordes and Tyndale vntruely glosâ—th them For neyther doth saynt Austayne in this arguyng reproue the lyuyng of the Manycheise nor extolle and commende the lyuynge of the catholyke chyrche but in suche wyse maketh his argument as it both maye and muste serue for the knowen catholyke chyrche agaynste all kyndes of heretykes what so euer the lyuynge be of the tone parte or the tother And this argument is made more stronge now by thre partes than it was whan he made it And syth the chyrche shall as Cryst promysed neuer fayle the argument of saynt Austayne for some of the causes consydered shall euery daye be strenger for the chyrche then other as longe as y e world shall stande For saynt Austayne alledgeth there for one of the causes that moued hym the contynuaunce of the chyrche whiche than had contynued in sâ—â—cessyon aboute the space of foure hundred yere How 〈◊〉 is that stronger now after the contynuaunce in succâ—â—â—â—â—n the space of .xv. C. yeres And as for myracles wyth whych as saynt Austayne sayth they that byleue not be fyrst comenly moued to gyue fayth and credence the comon knowen catholyke chyrche neuer lacketh nor no chyrch of heretykes neuer hath And thus I saye good reders ye may perceyue by that place in saynt Austayne whyche I haue rehersed you and by hys other foure chapyters immedyate before that the mynde and entent of saynt Austayne is playne that god of his goodnesse offereth men occasyon and by good and substancyall causes helpeth them that are wyllynge fyrste of all to knowe the trewe chyrcheâ— of whyche euery trewe precher is a member And then lyke as god vseth myracles dyuers other meanes by whyche meanes hisâ— helpe grace maketh the well wyllyng person to perceyâ—e know whychâ— is his very chyrch so doth he after vse the same chyrch for a â—eane by whych he maketh a maÌ„â—now whych is the very scrypture ye and ouer that in thynges necessarye for saluacyon whych is the very sense and the trew vnderstaÌ„dynge of the very scryptureâ— ye and when god hath vsed the knowledge of the chyrche to make a man know whyche is the scrypture then is the same scrypture a very sure meane to conferme him the faster and y e more surely in the knowlege byliefe of the chyrch he shall so surely therin se proued the thynge that he before perceyued and byleued that the catholyke chyrche is the veâ—y chyrche An this is the trew order and the playn â—â—tente and menynge of saynt Austayne as yt playnely appereth as well in his byfore remembryd boke as in the worke of his confessyons in the order of his owne conuersyon and very playnly in a pystle of his agaynst the Donatystes whych is in his boke of pystles .cxlviii. In whych saynt Austayn playnely sheweth that the knowen catholyke chyrche is playnely by scrypture proued the very chyrche and that in all doutes and questyons euery man muste stande vnto that ende whych shall be eyther by the same chyrch determyned or by the generall custome of the same chyrche approued Saynte Austayne also in his thyrde boke agaynste the pystle of Permenâ—ane sayth in playne wordes that there is no suertye of any vnyte but yf the chyrche be declared and knowen whyche accordyng to goddes promyse sette vppon an hyll can in no
the cytye and sayde come and se a man that hath tolde all that euer I dyd is he not Cryste and many of the Samarytanes byleued bycause of the saynge of the woman how that he had told her all that euer she dyd and went oute vnto hym and desyred hym to come in whych fayth was but an opynyon and no fayth that could haue lasted or haue brought out frute but when they haâ—de herde Cryste the spyryte wrought and made them fele Wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde we byleue not nowe bycause of thy saynge but bycausâ— we haue harde oure selfes and knowe that he is Chryste the sauyour of the worlde For Chrystys preachynge was wyth power and spyryte that maketh a man fele and knowe and worke to and not as the scrybes and pharysyes preached and as cures make a man redy to câ—st his gorge to heare them raue and rage as madde men And therfore sayth the scrypture cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh â—elshe his arme that is to say his strength Anâ— euen so cursed is he that hath no nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so say And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More Lo good crysten reders here haue I geuen you hys whole tale to gether to the ende of his whole chapyter whyche houerly loked on and redde ouer plesauntly with hym that lyketh hyt ere euer he loke on yt for fauoure of the secte can not but seme very gay But who so consyder yt aduyse yt well he shall fynde not one pyece of treuthe therin farther then I haue all redy shewed you in the end of hys fyrste solucyon where I touched in few wordes scant spendynge foure lynys therin that y â— mynde of saynâ— Austayn was and is I wene of all good men besydes that when we byleue the chyrche eyther in knowynge whyche is the scrypture or in the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstandynge of the scrypture god both preuenteth vs in geuyng vs the occasyon and wurketh wyth vs and we wyth hym into the perfytynge of our consent and bylyefe as he doth towarde the perfayt accomplysshement of euery thynge wherby we walke towarde our saluacyon towarde whyche we can no thynge do wythout hym as hym selfe sayth wythoute me nothynge can you do so that the inwarde secrete cause wurkynge wyth vs is hym selfe But ordynaryly god vseth outwarde meanys and instrumentes such as euery man may sumwhat by the same gyue a reason and cause of hys owne faythe to an other man and therby tell hym that for the same causes the man to whome he telleth theym sholde of good reason folowe and byleue a lyke And in these meanes lyke as god vseth the bodyly senses whyche we call the fyue wyttes as wayes and meanes towarde that vnderstandynge whyche men attayne by reason though there be somtyme bytwene the reason and the bodyly senses some debate and variaunce so dothe he vse bothe the seruyse of the bodyly senses and of the reason of the soule towarde the seruyse of the fayth addynge therwyth bycause it is a thyyge farre aboue the nature of them bothe hys owne supernaturall ayde and helpe of hys supernall grace to preuent vs wyth occasyons and mocyons of bylyefe and walkynge on wyth vs excepte we leue of our selfe to the perfaytynge of bylyefe in our hartes and helpynge vs to inclyne oure myndes into the credence of those outwarde causes and motyues whyche wythout hys helpe in thynges ordeyned of god for the waye to heuynwarde we sholde not haue done nor of goddes ordynary course we sholde not haue byleued wythout some such outwarde sensyble causes neyther as is prechynge and myracles and some suche other And therfore as I before shewed you saynte Austayne all be it that without helpe of god he byleued not the catholyke chyrche nor wythout helpe of god knewe and byleued the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche yet he alledged vnto those heretykes the Manichays not that inwarde cause the secrete helpe of god that wroughte wyth hys wyll and hys reason in geuynge credence to those outwarde causes for whyche he sayth that he byleued the chyrche for therin myghte the Manicheys fayne theym selfe hys matchys say that the were inspyred and that they felte theyr inspyracyon in theyr hartes so felyngly that therby they perceyued that Manicheus theyr archeretyke was the very apostle of Cryst and that saynt Austayne eyther had no suche felynge or ellys a false felynge and was begyled And therfore as I saye saynt Austayne layed them not that inwarde cause but the outwarde causes of hys byleuynge the chyrche whyche were so good and effectuall that the heretykes neyther coulde nor neuer can be able to brynge the lyke for them selfe And then layeth he the same chyrch by those outwarde reasons so proued trewe for the outwarde open cause of the knowlege and bylyefe of the very scrypture and then doth the scrypture beynge by that outwarde cause that is to wytte by the chyrche well perceyued and knowen for the word of god bere wytnesse also is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowlege that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrch of Cryst here in erth that all other are vtterly fayned false bothe by the manyfolde textes of the scryptute expressely declaryng it as saiÌ„t Austayn sheweth also for that very reason sheweth that god gyuynge the gyfte of knowlege which is his trew scrypture to a chyrch vnto none but one or by that one wolde neuer gyue that specyall goostely gyfte and prerogatyue vnto any false chyrche and than byd the trew chyrche go lerne the trouth of the false Now good chrysten readers thys waye went saynt Austayne wyth suche outwarde causes as myghte of reason lede the reader wyth hym But now cometh Tyndale and seynge that he can not auoyde the reason of saynt Austayn neyther wyth samples of saynte IohnÌ„ and the pharyseys whyche he broughte in dysguysed of dyuers fasshyons to make one answere seme twayne nor wyth false glosynge of saynt Austaynes wordes wherin ye se Tyndale proued playne false he cometh now and confesseth that same outwarde cause of fayth vnto the scrypture grauntyng that hym selfe and euery man ellys knoweth it and byleueth it fyrst thorow the catholyke chyrch But then flyeth he forth frome the fayth of the chyrche vnto hys felynge fayth by which he now knoweth byleueth y â— scrypture as he sayth and no lenger by the chyrche And â—herin he playeth by hys felynge fayth as hys felowes do by theyr remembraunce For yf any heretyke be taken and examyned vpon his oth of any maner thynge whych he wyll not confesse for hope that it can not be proued nor dare well deny it for fere that it wylbe proued as whyther he sayd such a thynge
or sawe suche a man he runneth strayt to hys remembraunce and sayth he sayd it not or saw hym not to hys remembraunce though it were in leâ—se then halfe an howre afore For therin he seeth hym selfe saufe For though the whole towne sawe them togyther and herde hym speke it yet whyche of all them can proue whyther he remember it styll or haue forgote it were it neuer so late And so playeth Tyndale now beynge fayne to graunte all that he hath denyed he flyeth lyke rede Raynarde the foxe for hys saufegarde into his malepardus of his felyng fayth in whyche though he haue nothynge to proue it yet the Raynarde trusteth to lye saufe bycause he thynketh no man can fynde hym out For who can folow hym thyder to make any tryall what maner fayth hym selfe feleth in hys owne harte But yet good reders we shall so sette aboute hym and then sette in suche terryers to hym that we shall I truste eyther course hym abrode or make hym euyll reste within For lette vs now resorte agayn vnto the gaye gloryous processe of Tyndalys holy dystynccyon And where as in the begynnynge therof he calleth the hystorycall fayth a creâ—ence gyuen to a story tolde hym by men and that such fayth and credence hangeth vppon the trouth and honesty of the teller or of the comen fame and consent of many as yf a man tell hym that the Turke hadde wonne a cytye and that therfore yf there come an other that semeth more honeste or that hath better persuasyons than he thynketh immedyately that the fyrste man lyeth and so he loseth hys fayth agayne If ye consyder well good chrysten readers ye shall fynde that parte of hys dystynccyon that is to wytte the tone halfe of all to gyther is suche a tale as tyll he proue it better shall neuer serue hym here For all be it that in wordely thynges thys tale be trew yet in maters of faythe whyche faythe is the fyrste gate whereby we entre oure iournaye the ryghte waye toward god we canne neuer come at it wythout the helpe of god nor how probable a tale so euer be tolde vs neuer shall we byleue it wythout hys holy hande inwardly set on vs and ledyng vs therin to whych is euer redy in all such thynges both to preuent vs and to goo forth wyth the towardnesse of our owne wyll not frowardly resystynge but applyable vnto hys mocyon And thys order to be trewe Cryste wytnesseth where he sayth No man can come to me but if my father draw hym And saynt Poule sayenge we be not suffycyent of our self to thynke any good thynge as of our selfe And therfore god as I sayde preuenteth vs in the begynnynge goeth forth wyth vs all the waye wythout whom we coulde do nothynge by fayth towarde god nor â—y the outwarde occasyon of fayth toward the inwarde consent therof syth no man can as saynt Poule sayth saye our lorde Iesus but in spyryte And that god is euer redy but yf we wyllyngly wythdraw hym selfe sheweth where he sayth I stonde at the dore and knocke And that god helpeth vs forward not without our own coÌ„formable wyll appereth playn by clere textes of scrypture I wene mo then an huÌ„dred As where he sayth wo be thou Capharnaum for yf in Tyrus Sidon had ben wrought the myracles that haue bene wroughte in the they wolde longe a goo haue done penaunce in asshes and shyrtes of here And also where he sayd vnto HierusaleÌ„ in this wyse Hierusalem Hierusalem how often wold I haue gathered thy children togyther as the henne gathereth togyther her chykens thou woldest not And where he byddeth saynte Thomas of Inde wyll not thou be vnbyleuynge but byleuynge And where he blameth hys dyscyples for not byleuynge those that had seen hym rysen from deth agayne And therfore is it in my mynde false that Tyndale sayth that the hystorycall fayth that is to saye the fayth acquysyte and gotten by gyuynge credence to the reporte and tellynge dothe in the thynges of the chrysten fayth depende vppon the trouth and honesty of menne or comen fame alone For all be it that such thynges be the outwarde occasyons by meane wherof a man cometh therto yet is there euer more in euery such fayth the inwarde cause mouynge our wyll towarde the consent therof the speâ—yall ayde and helpe of the great goodnesse of god wythout whyche oute wyll had neuer walked towarde it And lykewyse as not the mannys tale at oure eare with oute god workynge wythin bryngeth vs into the bylyefe For as saynt Auâ—tayn sayth In vayne sowneth at y e eare the word but yf god worke in the herte eueÌ„ so not y e maÌ„nis tale alone kepeth y e faith in vs but as an outward mocyon yt kepeth as it brought but pryncypally kepeth vs therin he that pryncypally brought vs therto that is the inward workynge of goddes owne holy spyryte And thus ye se that this pyece of Tindales tale is but a bare brokeÌ„ patche Nowe the tother parte wherein he sayeth that yf there come a more honeste man or one that hath better persuasyons to the coÌ„trary that then he that had the faith vppon the fyrste mannys tellynge loseth yt agayne vpon the seconde man tellynge the coÌ„trary I say y t this patche is double noughte For syth as I sayd byfore he came to the fayth by two mocyons the pryncypall god workynge wythin and the secondary the occasyons outwardely geuyn also by god lyke as the good wyll workynge wyth god assented vnto yt so shall neuer any mannys tale nâ—r the tale of a thousande agaynste one ouermayster that inwarde mocyon of god as long as the wyll of the man will contynue styll with god in cleuynge to the fayth as yt dyd in folowynge hym in the commynge to yt Aud therefore some man that hath vppon ryghte small occasyon turned to the fayth and therfore wyth the myche more meryte as Cryste sayde Bleâ—sed be they that haue byleued and haue not seen could neuer wyth any maner occasyon be pulled from yt agayne bycause of theyr good wyll stykkyng styll to the inwarde cause of theyr fayth For yf a man may as in dede he may so obstynately set his wyll vnto the worse syde that no persuasyon of good reason can remoue hym to the better how mych it is more trew that when a man hath coupled his wyll wyth god by inclynynge cleuynge vnto grace there can none euyll persuasyon of counterfeted reason be able to plukkâ— hym from yt tyll the frowardnesse of his wyll do wyllyngly fall therfro as the towardnes of his wyll dyd wyllyngly cleue therto and as yt agayne maye when yt is fallen from yt wyth helpe of grace wyllyngly returne therto Now yf Tyndale call this a felyng fayth yet were his dystinccyon then clene vaynyshed and gone For then were euery historycall fayth in maters in the fayth a felyng faith also And therby
were then all his solucyon confounded But this peyce is also nought for a nother thynge For in this patche he supposeth that for y e fayth of Cryste there coulde not be gyuen so good an outwarde cause but that some better myght be made agaynst yt or at the leste some suche as myght appere the better But I say that excepte obstynacy forwardnes be in the mynde of hym to whom yt shall so seme yt is ellys a thynge impossyble that euer there shall be layed so great outewarde thynges agaynste the fayth of Cryst as shall be layed for yt But the reasons all redy made and the thynges all redy shewed for y â— fayth are suche as euery resonable man standynge but indyfâ—erent and voyd of obâ—tinate forwardnâ—sse yf the mater were but the trouth of a â—tory and not the meane of maÌ„nis saluacyon might well descerâ—e all that may be made agaynst yt to be farre the weker parte And now beynge this mater the meane of mannys saluacyon towarde the bylyef wherof god worked Tyndales tale is myche the flebler For ellys geue we them a great excuse that lest not to byleue the trouthe But oure lorde sayth vnto the prechers of hys sayth whome he sent to preache to all the worlde that he wolde geue theym a â—outh and wysedome therin that no man shold be able to resyâ—te the reasons wyth whych they shold conferme yt In â—hych wordes our lord ment not y t euery man wolde for all those reasons of prophecyes myracles martyrs and many other thynges bysydes consente and agree to byleue but that all be yt of abâ—tynacy they wolde not yet to theym that were indyfferent yt sholde well apthat they coulde neuer be able sufâ—ycyently to answere theÌ„ but that they myghte euer by playne outwarde proues be sustancyally confounded and the trew byleuer able alway to declare to the false and faythlesse an outward cause suffycyent of his fayth and hopâ— whyche the tother myghte frowardly saye he wolde not but reasonably could he neuer say why he shold not beleue and geue credence vnto And thus ys lo the fyrste parte of Tyndales dyâ—tynccyon deâ—troyed Now is the seconde partâ— his felyng fayth whych is he sayth that bylyefe and fayth not that a man hath goten and conceyued in hys harte by herynge of other men but by y e playne experyeÌ„ce of his owne felynge And wyth this felyng fayth byleueth he y â— batayle that hath not herd other men talke therof told yt hym but hath hym self both ben present therat aud also ben wounded therin Nor no man byleueth wyth the felyng fayth that the fyre is hote tyll he haue at the leste wyse burned his fynger in yt For all ys but hystorycall fayth byfore Nowe good cristen reders by this tale Tyndale telleth vs that all the credence whyche he gaue vnto the chyrche in takynge the bokes of the foure euangelystes for the very gospelles of Cryste was all to gether but lyke Tyndales mothers blowynge vppon her fynger and therby makynge that prety babe her sonne byleue that the fyre was hote and hadde burned her and that he wolde haue byleued her no lesse yf she hadde tolde hym the same by a cuppe of colde water And that in lyke wyse as he byleued the chyrche that the gospelles were holy scrypture so shold he haue byleued theym yf they hadde tolde hym that a tale of Robben hode hadde ben holy scrypture For syth all was but an hystorycall fayth all muste nedes haue ben one Consyder by the way good reder the dyfference betwene saynt Auâ—tayne and the good man Tyndale in theyr credence geuen vnto the chyrche Saynte Austayne byleued the chyrche in teachynge hym whyâ—h was the trewe scrypture bycause he perceyued well the same chyrch to be so declared by miracles many other menes to be y e trew chirch that therby he byleued that the doctryne therof coulde not be false and that therfore yt could not teache a tale of Robbyn hode to be the gospell of Cryâ—te Now Tyndale as ye se taketh the credeÌ„ce of the whole catholyke chyrch the â—â—der of euery maÌ„nys cristendome lyke his ovne moder blowynge vpon her fynger and therby makynge the babye byleue what she lyâ—te And therfore in this poynt wherin saynte Austayne and the good man Tyndale tell you two so dyuerse tales consyder well with your self the wysedom the lernynge the maners the vertue of those â—wo â—â—n and then of them both loke whome ye fynde beste and by myne aduyse euen hym byleue beste But now doth Tyndale he sayth byleue the trouth that not a tale of Roâ—ben hode but the bokes of the foure euangelystes be the tâ—â—w gospell of Chryâ—te bycause oure lorde â—ath hem self so taught it hym and so shewed yt hym now that all that he hath heâ—â—â— theâ—â—â— vyfore by the teachyng of the catholyque chyrche moueth hym nothynge at all for now he hath an inwarde profe and experyence therof and fully and sensybly feleth yt as he feleth the fyre hote by the burnynge of his fynger And as he feleth yt thus in hym selfe so he perceyueth yt is with all y â— other electes the meÌ„bers of his trew chyrch and that therfore of all them there is none that knowe the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche but by theyr owne sure secrete felynge suche as they fele when they burne they re fyngers This is the tale ye wote well that Tyndale telleth vs. But now is yt perde good reason that Tyndale tell vs also by what meane he proueth yt or ellys at the leste wyse that he tell vs some cause resonable wherfore we sholde in so straunge a mater byleue hys bare worde For furely though that in any such thynge as he wyll saye that he feleth hym selfe in his owne breste and theruppon take hys othe vppon hys honesty that he feleth yt in dede reason requyreth for lakke of other tryall that we byleue his owne worde consyderynge that we may be ledde to byleue hym by the long experieÌ„ce of the contynuall lyeng that we haue euer therfore fouÌ„den in him yet that the lyke felyng is also in all his felowes hartes how feleth he And therfore howe can he desyre that we sholde therin byleue hym wythoute profe namely syth we se that hys owne hyghe spyrytuall mayâ—ter mayster Martyne Luther hym selfe for all hys hygh fleshely vertues layeth not in that mater such feling for his owne fayth but well lyketh and mych alloweth the hystorycall fayth of saynte Austayne and playnely confesseth hym selfe that the chyrche that â—aynte Austayne spake of that is to wyt the knowen catholyke chyrch hath that gyft gyuen of god that yt shall perfytely dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men â—nd therfore â—hall neuer take and teache a tale of Robben hode for the trew scripture of god Now therfore as I say Tyâ—dale muste proue vs this felynge fayth at the lest wyse fâ—â— the fayth of his felowes or ellys shall
euer sayd such a thyng or durste for very shame so that all the world therby may well perceyue and se that of all shamefull shamelesse sectys that the deuyll can dyuyse these be the botome of the draffe tubbe and the moste poysoned dregges But now doth Tyndale after this to proue that the credence geuen vnto the catholyque chyrche muste nedes be weke feble brynge in the Turkes the Iewes agaynst vs in this maner wyse Tyndale The Turkes beynge in â—omber fyue tymes mo then we knowlege one god and byleue many thynges of god moued onely by the authoryte of theyr elders and presume that god wyll not let so great a multytude erre so longe tyme. And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse this .viii. hundred yeres And the Iewes byleue thys daye as myche as the carnall sorte of theym euer byleued moued also by the authoryte of theyr elders onely and thynke that yt is impossible for theÌ„ to erre beyng Abrâ—hams seed and the chyldren of theÌ„ to whom the promysses of all that we byleue were made And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse thys .xv. hundred yeres And we of lyke blyndneâ—â—e byleue only by the authoryte of our elders and of lyke pryde thynke that we can not erre beynge such a multytude And yet we se how god in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge alwaye a lytle floâ—ke to call the other backe agayne and to testyfye vnto them the ryght waye More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders in these wordes Tindale geueth a specyall goodly doctryne y t yf we byleue the doctryne of the catholyke chyrch of Cryste then haue we no more suertye of our fayth then the Turkes haue of theyrs or y â— Iewes of theyrs consyderynge that the Turkes excede vs so farre in nomber and the Iewes matche vs in tyme. I meruayle myche that Tyndale addeth not vnto them the Paynems also as his mayster Luther dyd in the same argument For the Paynems passed bothe the catholyque Chrysten chyrche and the false Iewes and Turkes and Sarasyns and the false heretyqâ—es to as wâ—ll in tyme as nombâ—â— But yet I meruayle myche more that he hath so lytle wyt as to wene that the bryngynge in any of them all were any thynge at all to purpose For well ye wote good crysten reders that as I haue touched all redy we haue in geuynge credence vnto the catholyke chyrche two maner of mocions one kynde of outwarde causes such as myght yf the mater were wordely moue maÌ„nys reason to the full agrement and consent therof And that the tother mocyon is in them that byfore theyr baptysme haue vse of reason the goodnesse of god fyrste preuentynge them wyth the occasyons of some outwarde mocyon and then walkynge and workynge wyth theyr confyrmable wyllys into the coÌ„sent of that godly treuth and therwyth geuynge theym by baptysme that grace to is rewardable wyth glorye but yf some other synne be the let vpon theyr part And in such as are baptised yong y e inwarde mocyon is the same goodnes of god preuentynge theym with the habytuall fayth infouÌ„ded in the sacrament of baptysme Uppon the seed wherof wyth the good helpe of goddes grace there spryngeth after in the good and well appliable wyll of man the frute of credence and bylyefe whyche they geue vnto crystes catholyke chyrche accordyng to his owne commaundement vppon the preachyng of the same chyrch in the reasons whyche the same chyrche by goddes good ordynaunces geueth as outwarde meanes of credence and enducynge to the bylyefe both of yt selfe and of the scrypture of euery part of fayth as I byfore spake of and shall hereafter speke more Now as for thys inwarde cause we can not bynde the hethen by For though we tell yt theym they wyll not byleue vs or peraduenture tell vs the same tale of them selfe and saye that god moueth theym But vn the tother syde vnto all good crysten men thys thynge muste nedes make yt open that Tyndale in bryngynge forth for his part the Iewes the Turkes to make vs byleue that we maye be as well deceyued in byleuynge the catholyke chyrche syth Crystes days hyther to that the bokes of the new testameÌ„t be the trew scrypture of god as the Iewes in theyr Talmud or the Turkes in theyr Alcharon are deceyued in the beleuynge of theyr elders is a very frantyke blyndenesse For syth amonge all crysten men this is a playne bylyef that the chyrche of Criste is gouerned by the spyryte of god in y â— trewth that all those other chyrches are gouerned be the deuyll in theyr falsed now is to good chrysten people Tyndals argument none other then euen thys The chyrches that are gouerned in falsshed by the deuyll that ledeth them into falsshedâ— maye be deceyued and erre ergo the chyrche that is gouerned in trewth by the spyryte of god that ledeth it into all trouth maye be deceyued and erre in lyke wyse syth they be not so many as the false Turkes be nor haue not coÌ„tynued so longe as the false Iewes haue Is not thys a substancyall reason trowe you fyrste for the inwarde causes of our fayth and theyrs whiche causes arre bytwene vs and them more farre vnlyke thenne are theyr fayth and oures And then as for the outwarde causes of our fayth Tyndale maketh as though we had none other but lengthe of tyme or nomber of peple wherin some fase sectes passe vs. But surely yf we were now to talke wyth eyther Turke oâ— Iewe as we be to talke wyth these heretykes we wolde haue outwarde causes inough to laye wherfore the catholyke chyrche ought of reason to be byleued before any of theyrs and agaynste them all to and yet mo good causes haue we for that poynt to lay agaynst these heretykes then agaynste all the tother But Tyndale wyll happely saye to me therin as Luther answered the kynges grace that the Turke wolde laughe at all our reasons But thys is a wyse answere surely that we sholde be ashamed of euery reason that the Turke wolde laugh at and laye forâ—â— none but suche as we be sure the Iewes and turkes woâ—â— allowe Then must our sauyour Cryste haue holde hys pâ—ace for the Iewes alowed not hys But lyke wyse as though all wolde not yet many dyd and euyn so sholde they now I dowte it not And lyke wyse as though the remanâ—uÌ„t wolde not yet had they causes inough shewed them why they sholde so shold these now haue to But syth Tyndale wyll in no wyse agre that for the catholyke chyrche we coulde lay any causes vnto the Iewes or Turkes wherfore they sholde of reason gyue any credence to it and vppon the credence of it to take the newe testament â—â—r scrypture as saynt Austayne sayth that hym selfe dyâ— then yf we wolde any sende thyther to preche the trewe â—â—â—ypture amonge them and make them fyrste pâ—rceyue and byleue which bokes be the very scrypturys
syth they wolde byleue of lykelyhed as one man of the catholyke chyrche in that poynt better theâ—ne all the whole and that poynt muste nedes by Tyndales doctryne be knowen fyrste as the thynge wythout whyche nothynge can be proued there is no remedy but sende some of Tyndals electes For the trewe reasons and effectuall haue onely ye wote well they But fyrste how shall we knowe them â—yes well inough perde For yf they be freres we knowe them by weddynge of nonnes well sende Luther then How be it that may not be for he sholde be but laughed at there bycause he alloweth the reason of saynt Austayne that he knoweth the sâ—rypture by the catholyke chyrche bycause the chyrche hath he sayth the knowledge and dyscernyng therof from all other wrytynge specyally gyuen by god well wyll we do well then lette vs sende so good a man as no man can dowte of but that he is an electe and who sholde that be but holy wyllyam Tyndale hym selfe what reasons wyll he laye to them He wyll saye by lykelyhed O all you Iewes and all you Turkes to and all ye Saracenys hedes harken here vnto me and geue credence vnto me and byleue me that these bokes be the very scripture of god but byleue it neuer the rather though all the knowen catholyke chyrche saye so for they be all as badde as ye be and ech of you as credyble as any of them and then be you Iewes of more antyquyte then they and ye Turkes and ye Saracenys fyue â—ymes so many as they and therfore why sholde you byleue the catholyke chyrch for any thyng that they can saye vnto you But I shall tell you whom ye shall byleue I saye ye shall byleue me and I shall tell you a good cause why For I haue a felynge fayth For what so euer I tell you god hathe hym selfe so wryten it in myne herte that I fele it to be trewe And therfore thys is a playne euydent open cause wherfore ye sholde byleue me Lo when Tyndale wold telle them thys tale they could not ye wote well laugh therat for it coulde not be but the felynge fayth of hys fâ—lse harte they muste nâ—des fele at theyr owne fyngers endâ— â—ath he not wysely â—andeled thys obieccyon of the Iewes the Turkes and towarde the auoydynge of the catholyke chyrche prouyng of hys felyng fayth brought them to a goodly purpose But then cometh he forth in the ende of hys chapyter and shewed vs that god euer in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge all waye a lytle floke to call them backe agayne and shewe them the ryght way And so he meneth that god hath now sent hym hys mayster and those other holy heretykes to teche the catholyke chyrche the ryght waye But as I haue sayd before god hath promysed to sende hys holy spyryte into thys chyrche to teche it all trouth to remayne therwyth hym selfe also perpetually to guyde hys chyrche from suche fallynge of hys catholyke chyrche from the ryght fayth that he sholde nede to sende any such coll prophetes as these heretykes are to teche hys chyrche the fayth as it appereth well by the olde holy sayntes of euery age syth thapostles dayes wyth whose doctryne as it is by theyr bookes proued the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche agaynst all these heretykes agreeth Also whan he sent hys prophetes of olde he was wonte alway to sende honest men on hys erand that proued them selfe by myracles and not suche rascayle rybauldes as call them selfe apostles and proue it but by iestynge and raylynge Goddes messengers were wonte also to teche euery man clennesse and honesty not as these bestely felowes do teche folke to breke theyr vowys and freres to flye forth and wedde nonnes More ouer yf the trewe flocke be alwaye a lytle flocke then be not these heretykes now the trewe flocke For they be now growen not onely to a greate maynye of menne but also a great shrewde sorte of flockes flockyng in many countrees of chrystendome full faste and in many places mych harme haue done and mych more they go aboute And therfore syth in some places the heretykes be now the gretter multytude and the catholykes the lytle flocke there are then yet syth the treuth standeth by Tyndales tale in the lytlenesse of the flocke the catholykes becomen the faythfull folke and the heretykes the false wythoute any chaunge of bylyefe on eyther other syde Fynally chose few folke that god was wont to reserue or sende to techethe worlde the ryghte waye dyd agre in theyr doctryne For ellys had the worlde ye wâ—te well not wyste whyche of them to folowe But now â—hese heretykes be almost as many sectes as men neuer one agreeth wyth other so that yf the worlde were to lerne the ryghte waye of them that mater were mych lyke as yf a man walkynge in a wyldernesse that fayne wolde fynde the ryghte waye towarde the towne that he enteÌ„ded sholde mete with a mayny of lewde mockynge knauys whyche when the poore man hadde prayed them to tell hym the waye wolde gete them into a roundell turnynge theym backe to backe and then speke all at onys and eche of them tell hym thys waye eche of theym poyntynge forthe wyth hys hande the waye that hys face standeth Fynally that lytell flocke that god reserued to call the great multitude backe and to shewe the worlde the ryghte waye they were euer yet a knowen company For yf men myghte not haue knowen theym they neuer coulde haue herde them nor byleued them as folke of the trewe flocke yf no man coulde haue knowen whyche were the trewe flocke And then muste it theruppon folow that yet the trewe chyrche muste be a knowen chyrche and not an vnknowen sorte of electes onely wyth such an vnknowen kynde of felynge fayth as no man can fele in hys felowe nor no man can fele in hym selfe but he whom all trewe faythfull folke may well and easyly fele for a false fumblynge heretyke whyche by that false fumblynge fayth feleth that the blessed sacrament of the aultar the sacred body of our sauyour hym selfe sholde haue none honour done to it nor be taken for no thynge ellys but eyther for bare brede or starche But now when he hath so well quytte hym wyth y â— false turkes and the Iewes agaynste the trewe catholyke chyrche of Cryste he commeth forth wyth an other chapyter and therin for the fynall conclusyon of all hys mater concernynge the knowlege of the very chyrche and for the fynall solucyon of the seconde argument made for the catholyke chyrche and for the fynall confyrmacyan of hys false felynge fayth he knytteth vppe all hys dyspycyons with these wyse wordes that folow Tyndale ¶ How thys worde chyrche hathâ— double interpretacyon Thys is therfore a sure conclusyon as Paule sayth Rom. 9 that not all they that are of Iâ—aell are Iâ—aelytâ—s neyther bycause the be Abâ—ahams seed
a good lesson and a goodly gospell of this euangelycall doctour I wysse saynt Peter answered not Symon Magus so sore ye wote well But what syth there is no remedy wyth vs but that Tyndale wyll nedys dampne vs all in to Dymmynges daie yet lette vs beseche hym of hys comfortable counsayle for some other good felowes as haue bene by grace hytherto kepte and preserued frome suche vngodly coÌ„mynge into the fayth and haue so well resysted all credence of myracles and all mennes persuasyons that for any thynge that god coulde do by mene of men or myracles they stande yet clere aborde and byleue nothynge at all If some such good felowe wolde now beseche Tyndale to teache hym the meanes how he myghte gete hys felyng fayth what counsayle wold Tindale now gyue vnto hym wyll he byd hym repente hys vnbylyefeâ— yf he so byd hym the man wyll wene he mocketh hym For how canne he repente the not byleuynge of any artycle but yf he fyrste byleue that hys dutye is to byleue it and harde it is to coÌ„ceyue or imagyne that a man maye byleue that suche a poynte or suche a poynte euery mâ—n oughte to bylâ—ue but yf he fyrste byleue that poynt hym selfe And Tyndale hath also shewed vs that concernyng the byleuyng the electe can no thynge do at all tyll god make hym fyrste bothe for to se and fele and so forth and therfore when he telleth hym thys tale of bylyâ—f and then byddeth hym go and repente hys vnbylyefe byfore he tell hym how he maye fyrste come to the very felynge bylyefe the poore man maye well thynke that Tindale dâ—th but mocke hym what counsayle then wyll Tyndale gyue hym ferther wyll he tell hym that it is the lyberall fre gyfte of god and therfore aduyse hym to praye god to gyue it hym If Tyndale tell hym thus then the man callynge to mynde Tyndals formaâ—e tale that he hath wrytâ—n and taught that the wyll of man can no thynge wurke wyth god towarde god though it maye wurke wyth god towarde outwarde thynges and now thys prayour yf it lye not in hys wyll wherfore doth Tyndale aduyse hym to it And yf it lye in hys wyll yet syth by Tyndals tale it can no thynge do toward god and the turnynge of god to hym and hym to god For yf it coulde then could hys wyll do somwhat toward god whyche Tyndale doth expressely denye the pore man wyll wene that Tyndale doth yet but mocke More ouer syth Tyndale expressely mocketh all endeuoure of mannys wyll in subdewynge of hys reason into the seruyse of the fayth of Cryst and calleth it a betleblynd reason the man wyll soone se that Tyndale is hym selfe betleblynde yf he se not that it is then but a betleblynde counsayle to byd hym go pray therfore For well ye wote the selfe same mynde and eâ—tent of prayenge that god may make hym byleue is some endeuoure of hys owne wyll towarde the bylyefe And yet whenne Tyndale hath more ouer tolde vs yet more playnely that the man can by hys wyll no more do towarde the gettynge of the fayth then can the chylde in the begetynge of hys owne father and euery man well woteth that the chylde can not praye god to cause hys graundefather to bygete hys father thys man muste nedes perceyue that in byddynge hym to pray for the fayth Tyndale doth playnely mocke hym Fynally good faythfull reder I can not in good fayth perceyue what counsayle Tyndale can geue any man towarde saluacyon standyng his frantyke heresyes agaynst free wyll whyche as yt is in euery good and merytoryous worke preueÌ„ted by the goodnesse of god so doth yt in such as haue age and reason worke and walke on wyth god not in other thinges onely but with endeuour also toward fayth by credence geuynge bothe to myracles and good persuasyons of men whych thynges god hath here ordayned for the meanes towarde yt conuenyent for the state of this present lyfe and suffycyent for the iuste cause of damnacyon of all such as for lacke of theyr owne deuour and for frowardnes of theyr owne fre wyll do not vppon so suffycyent caases byleue syth that yf there lakked not endeuour vppon theyr owne parte the goodnes of god wolde haue assysted theym wyth his helpe to the perfeccyon and full infusyon of that grace in fayth hope and charite that but yf the wyll afterward fynally fall therfro shold bryng to the glorye from whyche they sholde neuer fall and towarde whych glory Tyndale standyng his heresy can as ye se bable he neuer so sayntly geue any man any couÌ„sayle forwarde but euen to syt styll and do nought and let god alone For as ye se playnely to this ende at last cometh all his holy heresy when yt is well examyned And therfore wolde not yet mayster More by glad to chaunge his fayth for Tyndales as faythlesse as false Tyndale calleth yt But now concludeth Tyndale all his coÌ„cclusyon thus Tyndale And hereby maye ye se that it is a playn and an euydeÌ„t coÌ„clusion as briâ—â—t as the sonne shinynge that the trouth of goddes worde dependeth not of 〈◊〉 treuth of the congregacyon More who euer sayde that yt dyd who was euer so madde to thynke that the trouth of goddes worde depended vppon the mouthes of any mortall men or any creature eyther in erthe or heuen but wythoute any outwarde dependens hath his solydyte substaunce and fastenes of and in yt self But the thynge that ys in questyon betwene vs ys not wherby Tondale knoweth and I also that goddes worde is trew But wherby he knoweth and I to whyche is the worde of god and bycause Tyndale and I be not agreed theruppon but I saye wryten and vnwryten and he but wryten onely I come nerer vnto hym therin aske hym how he knoweth whyche is the worde of god wryten that is to wyt whych is the very scrypture And theâ— say I that the certaynte of thys thynge euery man that ordynaryly hath yt coÌ„meth to yt by the catholyque chyrche And that I say trouth in this poynt I thynke that euery crysten man that knoweth which be the scrypturesâ— will for his owne part bere me weâ—nesse as holy saynt Austayn hath all redy downe for his parte in the wordes of his before remâ—mbred wryten agaynsâ— the Manycheis where he sayth I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto whyche sayenge of saynte Austayne ye se your selfe that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so â—ayntly glosed for an answere that they remayne styll vnanswered And therfore as for Tyndales coÌ„clusyon we wyll with good wyll graunte hym that yt is as clere as the sonne shynynge that the trewth of goddes wordes dependeth not vpon the trewth of the congregacyon But syth ye se good reders as clere as the sonne shyuynge that no man sayde the contrarye nor the questyon betwene vs was not whyther goddes worde were trewe bycause the chyrche
If he say y t he could not but byleue saint Poule bycause god wrought myracles for hym by the same reason muste he byleue the catholyke chyrche for as myche as god contynually in euery good crysten countrey worketh myracles in yt for the catholyque chyrche and wythdraweth his myracles from all chyrches of heretykes and therby declareth that he dothe those myracles not onely in yt but also for yt And also Tyndale knewe not that god by the mouth of saynte Poule sayde so but bycause that the chyrch taught hym that god dyd so If he saye yes he felt yt by the wrytynge of goddes owne fynger in his herte he muste consyder that I speke of the tyme before y t his hert was so holy that god lyked to wryte wyth his owne fynger therin For hym selfe sayth that the hystorycall fayth goth fyrste the felynge fayth cometh after Therefore at the leste wyse in that tyme why sholde he not as well byleue the chyrche when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd tell as when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd wryte And in lyke wyse for the bokes of the wryten wordes of scrypture of whyche these heretykes receyue suche as lyke them refuse such as they lyste syth y t in the begynnynge sauynge for the catholyke chyrche they neyther knew the tone nor the tother why sholde they not byleue the same chyrche as well in the tone as the tother And as concernynge the bokes of scrypture whych they they them selfe receyue syth the debate betwene the chyrch and these heretyques standeth not vppon the wordes but vppon the sentence yf Tyndale were a Turke borne bycause he layeth so often the Turkes for his parte agayâ—ste vs they wolde and well they myghte reken hym but for a proude fole yf he wold now begynne to constre them theyr Alcharon in great and necessary poyntes of theyr fayth agaynste the consente and agrement of all the olde exposytours of theyr owne and the bylyefe of all the people from the deth of Machomete vnto Tyndales byrth If Tyndale wold now refute myne obieccion of y â— Turkes and theyr Alcharon wyth obiectynge in lyke wyse agaynst me the Iewes and the olde testament whyche Crist and his apostles taught theym to constre contrary to theyr olde vnderstandynge fro Moses dayes to theyr owne and that the chyrch of Cryste doth euen the same styll and wyll therfore say that so maye hym selfe and his mayster Martyne and Huyskyn and Swinglius teache the chyrche of Cryste in lykewyse to constre the scrypture of the new testament in necessary poyntes of fayth contrary to the consent of all the olde exposytours and the comen fayth of all crysten nacyons syth the tyme of Cristes deth and his blessed apostles vnto our owne dayes as Crisâ—e and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche teache the Iewes to construe theyr own scrypture of the old testament that they had had and taught so longe before I answere Tyndale therunto lettynge passe other answeres for this time that Cryst and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche euer synnes haue proued and yet proue the authoryte of theyr doctryne to be aboue the Iewes in the constrewynge of theyr owne scryptures delyuered by Moses and the prophetes by that yt hath pleaseth god for the testyfycacyon therof to shewe by Cryste and his apostles and his catholyke chyrche contynually to this day many meruelouse myracles and wythdrawe theym all from the Iewes Nowe lette Tyndale and Luther and Huyskyn and Suynglius do the lyke agaynste the catholyque chyrche then let them come and teache yt to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrarye to all the olde But tyll they haue the myracles among them and the catholyque chyrche leseth theym yf Tyndale and hys fonde felowes wyll in the meane whyle go nowe aboute to teache the chyrche to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrary to the contynuall fayth fro the apostles days vnto theyr owne we may myche better call theÌ„ proude presumptuous folys then myght the Turkes for teachynge them a contrary construccyon of theyr Alcharon Besydes this his ensample of the Iewis wyll not helpe hym for a nother cause For the olde exposytours of they re scryptures bothe of Moses and of the prophetes were vppon the parte of Cryste and his apostles and consequently of the catholyque chyrche contynually agaynst the false scrybes and pharysyes and the false doctoures synnes in suche necessary poyntes as they and we vary for as appereth well by dyuers of theyr bokê whych be dayly brought forth and allegged by men at this day lerned in theyr own tonge and also by that substancyall well lerned man Lyre in hys exposycyon of the seconde psalme Now yf Tyndale Luther Huiskyn Suingliê° can say y t the old holy doctours expositours vpon the scrypture dyd euer expoune it so that by theyr exposycyon it myghte appere that the scrypture of Cryste appereth it for lawfull and not abhorreth it as a thynge abomynable that freres sholde wedde nonnes I wyll agre wyth Tyndale to gyue ouer all the mater And thus ye se good reders that as concernynge the scrypture which Tyndale here techeth his dyscyple to say that they alledge elder then any chyrche thys .xiiii. C. yere syth the debate and variaunce is not in the wordes wherin they and we bothe agre but in the senteÌ„ce wherin not onely the comen contynued fayth of all chrysten nacyoÌ„s but also all the olde holy doctours sayntes euer synnys the same scrypture wryteÌ„ agreeth with the catholike chyrch agaynst hym hys alledgyng of the scrypture is not worth a leke And therfore is he now dreuen in all that euer we vary for to leue both scrypture and all and when he aske wherfore he byleueth eyther thys or that fayne muste he be to holde hym onely to hys felynge fayth and as Tyndale for a shote ancre techeth hym say that he byleueth it onely bycause he feleth it wryten in hys harte wythout any reasonable outwarde cause wherfore he fyrste byleued it wyth a story fayth wherof as ye haue herde he can for hys heresyes proue vs none at all Then syth he is comen to that poynt that without any good outwarde cause he muste defende hys fayth by hys onely felynge may not the Turkes and the Iewes bothe whome he layeth so sore agaynst vs defende theyr faythe 's agaynste hym by the selfe sam And when he can no ferther saye but that he feleth his to be trew eche of theyrs false may not eche of them answere hym that they fele theyrs to be trewe and hys false And thus were gone the counsayle of saynt Peter that we sholde geue a reason of our hope to euery man that wyl aske vs wherfore we hope so And therfore leuynge saynt Peter hys way lette euery man folowe Tyndale and byleue what he lyste and saye he feleth it wryten in hys owne harte wyth goddes owne hande Men saye that he
whyche hath bene onys at Hierusalem may lye by authoryte bycause he shall be sure seldome to mete any man that hath be there by whome hys tale myghte be controlled But Tyndale hath here to lye without controllement wyth lesse labour sought out a shorter waye and as hym selfe thynketh a surer to For he goeth not onys out a dore therfore but saye what he lyste and tell vs that he feleth it trewe and fyndeth it wryten wythin hys own harte by hym that can not wryte false the spyryte of god hym selfe And there he weneth hym selfe surer then yf he wente twyse to Hierusalem and twyse as farre beyonde For yet myghte he for all that fortune to fynde some man that hadde the same waye walked as farre as he and there founden Tyndalys tale false But when he sayeth that he feleth it wryten wythin hys owne harte he weneth hym selfe very sure For he thynketh veryly ther canne no man loke in there to controlle hym and se whyther he lye or not But yet as wyly as that inuencyon was Tyndale ys therin begyled and god hath gone beyonde hym made hys wyly foly founden out more playnely then of late appered and came to controllement the selfe same wyly foly in Rycharde webbe Thys webbe whyle I was chauncelloure to the kynges hyghnesse was by dyuers heretykes detectyd vnto me that he had solde and vsed contynually to sell many of these heretykes bookes forboden by the kynges gracyouse proclamacyon to be brought in to the realme and ferther I was by good and honeste men enfourmed that in Brystowe where he then dwelled there were of those pestylent bookes some throwen in the strete lefte at mennys dores by nyght that where they durste not offer theyr poysen to sell they wolde of theyr cheryte poysen men for nought Now beynge thus enformed of hym and hauynge very sure knowlege that he was a greate medeler in suche vngracyouse maters and vtteryng of suche poysoned bokes of whyche I hadde a doser delyuered into my handes by Michael Lobley whom I hadde attached for lyke maters and whyche hadde receyued the same docer and bookes of webbe and afterwarde abiured hys heresyes I gaue out a commyssyon to certayne good wurshypfull folke at Brystowe to attache Rycharde webbe wheruppon after suertyes there fouÌ„den to appere byfore me he went at large and commynge vppe to London the daye before he came at me gate hym to saynte Catheryns to Robert Necton to whom he had vttered of hys bokes before and fell in a secrete agrement wyth hym what eche of them sholde saye therin when they were examyned therof And whan webbe thought he made the mater saufe and sure there then came he boldely to me But now was he shrewdely bygyled for yet ere he came at me Necton ferynge that webbe myghte happe to tell the treuth thoughte he wolde hym self be before hym and sent me worde in greate haste of webbys beynge wyth hymâ— and of all the communycacyon that hadde ben bytwene theym to And so webbe vnware therof beynge examyned on the morow fyrst of dyuers other thynges answeredâ— on his othe many a false answere as I very well perceyued sauynge the salue of hys remembraunce For euer for the more parte he referred and restraynyd all to hys remembraunce And when he had all done saw that I found no fawte nor nothynge obiected agaynst his answers but so vsed my selfe as though I byleued them then he beganne to loke pytuously vpon me and sayd that he had euer herd that who so were in hys examynacyon trew playne vnto me had ben alwaye wont to fynde me good and fauorable and sayd that for that cause he had hym selfe shewed me all that euer was in hys stomake as playnely as he knewe it hym selfe vpon hys fayth to hys remembrauÌ„ce wherupon I shewed hym that yf I founde hym trew he sholde fynde me fauourable but I fered that his answerys were not all trew Syr quod he yf ye fynde any one false neuer be good lord vnto me nor neuer trust me after whyle ye lyue Then for a say I thought of hys so many lyes to assay hym with some one And than I asked hym agayne of one syr Nycholas to whom he had answered me before that he neuer sold any suche bookes but that the preste hadde he sayde offred hym suche bookes to sell but he wolde none bye and that he hadde not seene the preste thys halfe yere and the laste tyme he sawe hym was at Brystow And whenne he sâ—yll abode therby vppon hys othe that thys was trewe and ellys wolde I sholde neuer byleue hym in any thynge nor shew hym any fauour theÌ„ I asked hym whyther Brystow were in Holborne whyther syx wekes were halfe a yere And when he perceyued by those questyons that I knewe of a certayn asseÌ„ble of theyrs in Holborne within .vi. wekes before then he caste downe the hed and sayd he hadde forgote it And whan I layed vnto hym hys periury he sayd he sware for no ferther then he remembred But when he coulde not make me byleue that he hadde forgote it then downe he fell vppon hys marydonys pytuously prayed me to â—ogyue hym that one lye in whych the deuyll he sayd ought hym a shame For in good fayth syr there is not in all myn answers any one thynge vntrewe but that well webbe quod I in fayth yf that be trew then wyll I wynke at thys one and lette it go for none But nowe yf there be any mo lyes call them agayne bytyme and I wyll thenne take your fyrste tale for vntolde Naye syr quod he and ye fynde any one more then neuer byleue me whyle ye lyue but take all for lyes that euer I tell you and put me to opeÌ„ shame and make me a sample to all the false periured knauys in the realme well sayed I by lykly hed the remanauÌ„t be well tryed trewthes ye wolde not ellys webbe make so large an offer No in fayth syr sayeth he but yf I were sure that all were treue I wolde not be so madde to saye as I do and forsake your fauour so folyshly well quod I when saw ye Robert Necton then Nowe by my soule syr as I haue shewed your lordshyppe vppon myne othe I sawe hym not thys halfe yere to my remembraunce well quod I remember your selfe well ye know perde where he dwelleth and he where you dwell and therfore remember whyther ye were wyth hym at saynt Catheryns or he wyth you at Brystow or that ye met by chaunce to gyther any where ellys wythin these thre or foure monethes Then he began to study a lytell and clawe hys hed and rubbe hys forhed and sayed Nay in fayth to my remembrauÌ„ce we mette not to gyther thys halfe yere and by my trouth I can not now call to mynde well where we met then neyther well webbe quod I let that passe then and tell me another thyng was yesterdaye halfe yere
Austayne felt in the selfe thynge thaâ— saynte Austayne dyd then byleue as well as Tyndale doth now then dare I be bold to say that euery man and womaÌ„ y t any felyng hath can not fayle to fel Tindale for a proude fumblynge fole And that he so is in dede ye shall yet the more fully fele by this For yf yt were all trew that he sayde yet hath hys owne wordes double proued that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche of Cryste Fyrst in that I haue vppon his owne wordes proued you that yf he sayde trew yt muste therof nedes folowe that all crysten people beyng baptysed in childhed must haue the felyng fayth and then were they by his owne dyffynycyon the very chyrche Secundly now consydre well this good reders that as he sayth he byleueth not now no lenger whych is the trew scryptâ—re bycause the chyrch so teacheth hym but bycause he feleth yt writen in his herte by y e spyryte of god so sayth he that in lyke wyse he byleueth not now no lenger any artycle of the fayth bycause he fyndeth yt in the bokes but bycause he feleth yt wryten in hys owne harte by the spyryte of god Now sayth Tindale not nay but that as he came fyrst to the knowledge of the artycles of the fayth by the preaching or redynge of the bokes of the scrypture so came he fyrste to the knowledge whych was the scripture by the teachyng of the knowen catholyque chyrche Now say I therfore that grauÌ„tyng hym to say well and trew in that he sayth be byleueth no leger now the artycles of his fayth for the bokes of the scrypture nor byleueth the scrypture to be the trew scrypture for the teachynge of the catholyke chyrche yet foloweth yt for all that that in lykewyse as that by the preachynge or redynge wherof he fyrst came to the byleuynge of the fayth is the very trewe scrypture so is the knowen catholyke chyrche by whych he fyrst came into the byleuynge of the scrypture and by whose techynge he toke it and perceyâ—ed it for holy wrytynge and for the very scrypture the same chyrche is in lykewyse I saye the very trewe chyrche syth that orygynally the scrypture is knowen as Tyndale hym selfe confesseth by none other chyrche as the fayth is orygynally lerned by none other scrypture And thus good christen readers to make an ende of this boke here ye clerely se that I haue not onely reproued you clerely Tyndals false felynge fayth and auoyded hys solucyon playnely by whyche he wolde auoyde that argument that clerely proueth the catholyke knowen chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste by that the trewe scrypture is knowen by the same chyrche and none other but I haue also yet onys agayne clerely proued you the comon knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste by the veâ—y wordes of Tyndale hym selfe wyth whyche he wolde proue the contrary For thys argument by whyche the knowen catholyke chyrche is proued the very chyrch whyche argumeÌ„t Tyndale hath all thys whyle bumbled about to soyle abydeth in conclusyon so stronge and ineuytable that in the laborynge to soyle it Tyndale hath double confermed it And surely thys is no meruayle For where as all heretykes very well perceyue that by the playne promyses of our sauyour hym selfe clerely coÌ„tayned in the gospell hys chyrche can neuer be brought into any dampnable errour and that yf it myghte there were no suerty neyther of doctryne nor of the scrypture selfe on the tother syde yf they sholde graunte the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche to be trewe then were all theyr heresyes drowned for thys cause lobeynge dreuen to confesse that the chyrche can not fall into dampnable errour they be dreuen to seke aboute for some other chyrche bycause the sure treuth of the chyrch dampneth destroyeth theyr heresyes And yet was there neuer any of them but that in goynge frome the knowen catholyke chyrche to seke out another he walked so wyld about that who so loked on and byhelde hym wolde saye the man were blynde and eche walketh a dyuerse waye assygneth a dyuerse chyrche neuer one lyke another And for ensample ye maye consyder twayne Tyndale for one whose chyrche ye haue harde all redy The secunde shall be frere Baroâ—s of whose chyrche I wyll som what shewe you before I fynysshe thys worke Thus endeth the .vii. boke ¶ The .viii. boke in whyche is confuted doctour Barons chyrche FRere Barons maketh the tytle of hys processe concernynge the chyrch in thys wyse What is holy chyrcheâ— and who be therof and wherby men maye knowe her After this tytle of hys processe he begynneth to playe Tyndalys parte fyrste in flyttynge from the poynt that is to wyt from the whole catholyke chyrche vnto the clergye alone and after in lyke maner of raylyng And surely notwithstandynge that a man myghte wenâ—â— Tyndale were in suche fonde scoffynge perelesse yet doth frere Barons as farre outruÌ„ne hym in â—â—ylynge as he draggeth behynd hym in reasonyng wherin wyth Tyndale Barons can hold no fote as downright as Tindale halteth therin Frere Barons lashethe out agaynste theym pryde and pompe and all theyr lyues spent in whoredome as though there were not a good preste in all the catholyke chyrche tyll they leue the catholyke fayth and fall to heresyes for than can they not be but honest though they wold for than maye freres wedde whores and call them wyueâ— But yet he iesteth on theym ferther bycause they were crownys and longe gownes aâ—d that bysshoppes were whyte rochettes And wheÌ„ he hath lykened them to bullys assys and apys and the rochettes to smockes then he lyketh mych hys mery mâ—ckes and faâ—eth as he were from a frere waxen a fydeler and wolde at a tauerne go gete hym a peny for a fytte of myrth How be it as for crownys and gownys and rochettes and vycyouse lyuynge all these thynges he but playeth sporteth wyth But the thynges whyche he layeth ernestly to theyr charge is that they gyue credence vnto the olde holy doctours of Chrystes chyrche in the interpretacion of Chrystes worde and that they medle to se any good rule and that they vowe chastyte and for that they teche not the people that fayth alone is suffycyent but that folke be bouÌ„den to do good wurkes and penauÌ„ce for theyr euyll yf they wyll be saued and bycause they lette not heretykes alone but persecute them bycause they be not persecuted them selfe For these causes lo he sayth they be as farre vnlyke vnto the chyrche as god is to the deuyll But he forgetâ—th in the meane whyle how many good vertu◠〈◊〉 prestes and relygyouse peple be put out of theyr places and spoyled of theyr lyuyng and beten and sent out a beggynge whyle herâ—tykes and apostatas wyth theyr wedded harlottes in stede of theyr vowed chastyte kepe theyr open auowde whoredome and maynteyne theyr incestuose lechery wyâ—h the lyuynge that
myghte haue ben some ouersyghte eyther in hym self or in the prenter by mysse wrytynge or by mysse prentyng those fygurs of algorysme bycause the fygure of .9 the fygure of .6 be all in maner one yf they be contrary turned I assayed them therfore euery way and sought red ouer not onely .99 sermon whyche he assygneth but also .96.69 and 66 and I fynde his texte in none of all those places and thaÌ„ to go seke tohse wordes thorowout all saynt Austayns wurkes were a great longe besynesse For surely it semeth that the man hath alledged hys texte in a wronge place of purpose bycause he wolde not haue it founden for some thynge that hym self seeth of lykelyhed in the same sermon that wolde marre all hys mater wherfore tyll it happen me to fynde the place by chaunce in redynge of saynte Austayns wurkes we wyll take the wordes onely whych hym selfe reherseth than proue they no pyece of hys purpose agaynst the knowen catholyke chyrche For saynt Austayn doth in those wordes no thyng ellys but shew y t the chyrch is not restrayned vnto any one couÌ„tre as those heretykes held whyche were called the Donatystes whyche sayde the very chyrche was onely in Affryque was by god prouyded to rest there sprede no ferther abrode for the defence of theyr frantyke heresye dyd as frere Barns these other heretykes do now bryng forth certayn wordes of scripture coÌ„strewed after theyr owne folysh fantasye But saynt Austayne as I say sheweth in those wordes that the chyrch is the catholyke chyrch y t is to say the vniuersall multytude of all trew chrysteÌ„ people all faythfull chrysten nacyons where so euer they be thorow the worlde Now good reder what maketh thys for frere Barons purpose in profe of hys vnknowen chyrche agaynste the kâ—owen catholyque chyrche well he woteth hym selâ—e that the knowen catholyke chyrch doth not say y t the chirch is nor can be but iÌ„ one cuÌ„trey but he well knoweth that by the knowen catholyke chyrche that false heresye of the Donatystes is as fully coÌ„dempned as are these other false heresyes of hys yes sayth Barns for here ye maye se lo y t neyther pope nor cardynall be no more of thys chyrche than the poreste man in erth why who sayed hym euer naye therof But what is that to the purpose for as a pore man is as well of the chyrche as is the pope so is a cordener as well an englysshe man or a frenche man as is the kynge of eyther other cuntre But yet lyke as reason wyl not agre that the cordener in hys cuntre bere as myche rule as the kynge so wyll it not agre wyth reason that euery man in the chyrche bere as mych rule as the pope whom frere Barons dothe hym self here in this same processe of the chirch knowledge and confesse for Chrystes vicar in the chyrche And therfore it is all besyde the purpose that he runneth forth styll in thys purpose and alledgeth these wordes of Lyranus The chyrche doth not stande in men by the reason of spyryt all power or secular dygnyte for many prynces and many popys and other inferior persons haue swarued fro the fayth wherfore that chyrche doth stanâ—e in thâ—se persons in whom is the trewe knowledge and confessyâ—n of fayth and veryte These wordes of Lyre hath Barns alledged to be wryten in his exposycyoÌ„ vpoÌ„ y e .xix. chapiter of saynt Mathew But I haue loked ouer Lyre vppon all that chapyter and there fynde I no suche sayenge And therfore of lykelyhed Barns playeth here wyth Lyre as he playeth wyth saynte Austayn in the place that he alledged before that is to wyt alledgeth it in a wronge place bycause he wolde not haue it founde for fere of some thynge that wolde appere vppon the place redde and consydered But vppon these wordes of Lyre he maketh a greate exclamacyon and cryeth out Oh my lordes what wylâ— ye say to Lyrâ— I haue great meruayle that you burne hym not It is hyghe tyme to condemâ—ne hym for an heretyke For he speketh agaynste your law 24. Qâ—ua sâ—â—nâ— prima Quodcunque where as your glose declareth that god suffereth not the Rome câ—iâ—che to erre and Lyra sayth playne that many popys haue erreâ— and aâ—so that the chirch staÌ„deth not in dygnite but in coÌ„sessyoÌ„ of Cryst oâ— his blesâ—ed verite Barns wold here seme lo to haue foundeÌ„ a great thyng in Lyre his worde But in good fayth I fynde nothynge here in Barons owne wordes but hys owne dowble foly Fyrste he sayeth Lyre condempneth the lawe and than he sheweth that he speketh not agaynste the lawe but agaynst a glose Is nâ—t that worde wysely proued Then se yet how wysely he proueth that Lyre reproueth the glose he sayth that y e glose sayth that god suffereth not the chyrche of Rome to erre and Lyre sayeth playne that many popes haue erred And what than Lyre â—ayth not y t the chyrch of Rome hath erred nor Lyre sayth not that the pope of Rome is the whole chyrche of Rome no more than the bysshoppe of London is the whole chyrche of London or the archebysshoppe of Canterbery the whole chyrche of the prouynce Now where Lyra sayth that the chyrche standeth not in the dygnyte but in the confessyon of Cryste and hys blessed veryte what sayth he other then all the hole catholyke chyrche agreeth not onely the good folke but the noughty to as many as any wytte haue to perceyue the thing Lyke as a cytye and a realme standeth not so mych by the dygnytye of the rulers as it standeth by wysdome good order true dealynge and iustyce But yet as these thynges wold fayle in a cytye and in a realmâ— yf there were no rulers to se them kepte ye and the rulers beynge of a ryghte seconde sorte yet wolde the people be myche worse yf they were all wythout And the people is therfore bouÌ„den to obay them and not euery lewde felow to ieste and rayle vppon them so is it in the whole chyrche also And therfore no man fyndeth any fawte wyth Lyra neyther to burne hym nor to be angry wyth hym but euery good man hathe good cause bothe to be angry and to burne vppe to suche pestylent sedycyouse persons as not onely by iestynge raylynge and bylinge all those that are in dygnyte prouoke to rebellyon the people that sholde obaye them but also vnder pretexte of techynge the trewe fayth laboure to destroye the trewe fayth and infecte good chrysten peple wyth false poysened heresyes And amonge all those one of the very wurst sort and wheruppon all the remanaunt are in a maner byelded wolde vnder colour of berynge fauour to the good vertuouse people that are in the chyrche make men byleue that the whole chyrche wherof those good men be part were not the chyrche in dede bycause they wolde haue it vnknowen that men myghte haue no suretye of any trewe doctryne
forgâ—uenes wyth For then he sayeth that as god hath washed away our spottes wyth the water of baptysme so he stretcheth out our wryncles vppon his owne crosse And yet he sayth for all this that no man lyueth here so clene but that as long as he lyueth here he so spotteth hym selfe agayn and so caccheth euer some wryncles that he lyueth neuer wythout nor longe can not not for necessyte of our nature peraduenture but thorow our wylfull fraylty and neglygence And then sheweth he farther yet that in those synnes wythout whyche no man lyueth he meaneth not abomynable dedely synnes as maÌ„slaughter or aduoutry or suche other horryble dedely synnes as sle the soule at one stroke For suche synnes crysten men he sayth that haue a good fayth and a good hope wyll not commytte wherby saynte Austayne teacheth vs agaynst the doctryne of those heretyques and these to that a man may be a crysten man and of the very same chyrche to whyche Cryste hath geuen hym self for to make her fayre gloryouse and may haue also a trew fayth that is to wyt a full bylyefe of euery uecessarye trouth and a full hope that is to wytte a great stronge truste in Cryste to be saued by Criste and yet not a good fayth able to make the man good bycause yt is but Barns fayth that is to witte onely fayth without well workynge charyte nor a good hope bycause it is a presumptuouse hope lokynge to be saued wyth dampnable deuelyshe leuyuge And for these causes may the member of the very chyrche here when he dyeth in such mynde for all his knowledgynge and askynge mercy to go from Crystes very chyrche in erthe to the deuyls very chyrche in hell For saynt Austayn sayth here as ye haue herd that they whyche haue suche synnes as at the tyme of deth sholde be remytted that is to say that hath not then such as be at his dyenge dedely both for theyr owne nature and for lacke of trew repentauÌ„ce wyth purpose of amendemeÌ„t well vsyng of the sacramentes shall be fully forgeuen that is to wyt yf he haue for attaynynge therof vsed hym selfe sufâ—ycyently in suche wyse as saynt Austayne here declareth that ys to say in confessyon knowledgyng of his synnes wyth coÌ„trycyon and prayour with good fayth and good hope â—nd a ware lyuynge vsynge dylygence to wythstande synne then he shall be sayth saynt Austayne forgyuen And whâ—n he is so at his deth fully forgeuen then shall he be layed vp for pure golde in the treasurs of god But saynt Austayne meaneth not that eueâ—y man that is of the very chyrche nor that euery man that dyeth out of dedely synne and knowledgeth his synne when he dyeth asketh mercy shall be forthwyth so fully forgeuen that he shall go hense so clene and so pure wythout spotte or wryncle that hâ— shall be by and by layed vppe for pure golde in the treasours of god but yf he long byfore with such other cyrcumstaunces as I haue byfore of saynt Austaynes own wordes rehersed you well and dewly ben accustumed long tyme to pray byfore that god wolde make hym wythoute spâ—t or wryncle by weshynge his spottes wyth the blessed sacramentes and stretchynge out his wryncles wyth the stretchynge them vppon the stretcher or tenter hokes of the crosse And then when god hath in suche wyse washed oute his spottes and in suche wyse washed out his wryncles at the very laste ende after whyche he can neyther gether spot nor wryncle more that then yt may please god to brynge hym into the shoppes and there lay hym where shall neuer be pressynge nor stretchynge more But yf he by long tymâ— byfore his deth pray duely thus ellys shall he not at hys deth be by and by layed vppe for pure gold in goddes treasours as frere Barons maketh ytâ— here seme by mysse rehersyng of saint Austayns wordes but he shal fyrst be wel purged and all the spottes wryncles that then remayn shall be clene burned oute by the hote fyre of purgatorye or by other mennes prayours and almoise dede and other suffrages of the chyrche done for hym be depured and clensed byfore that he shall be layed vppe for pure golde in the treasours of god And that saynt Austayne meaneth here none otherwyse then I do declare hym ye may well perceyue yf ye well aduyse his wordes whych I haue truely traÌ„slated And yet bycause ye shall the lesse doute therof saint Austayn shall him self declare y â— I truely declare you this place by his own very playn wordes in a nother place For in y â— .xxxii. sermon of the wordes of y â— apostle lo thus he sayth No man ought to doute but that wyth prayours of the chyrch and wyth the holsome sacryfyce and wyth almoyse that is geuen for the soules of them that are departed they are holpeÌ„ to be more mercyfully delt wyth of our lorde then theyr synnes haue deserued For this thynge by the tradycyon of the olde fathers the whole catholyque chyrche obserueth that ys to wyt that what tyme they that deceaced in the communyon and blood of Cryste at the tyme of the sacryfyce in they re place and order remeÌ„braunce made of them prayâ—ur shold be made for them and not that onely but also that specyall rehersall shold then be made that the same sacryfyce is offerd vp for them to Now when workes of mercy are done in commendacyon and fauoure of theym who can doute but that they are holpen therwyth syth prayour made for them vnto god is not frutelesse It is not in any wyse to be dowted but that these thynges succour releue them that are deceaced How be it onely suche men I saye as haue so lyued before theyr deth that these thynges maye do theym good after theyr deth For in relyefe of them that be departed out of the body wythout fayth workynge wyth cheryte â—nd wythout the sacramentes of the same suche deades of deuocyon are in vayne vsed the pledge or erneste peny of whyche deuocyon they lacked whyle they lyued here ether bycause they wold not receyue the grace of god or bycause they receyued it in vayne treasurynge and layenge vp for them selues not mercy but wrath wherfore wheÌ„ any good worke is done for them that are deceaced by theyr louers and frendes they meryte not of newe but these thynges are gyuen in rewarde as thynges consequent and well folowynge vppon theyr merytes whyche they deserued before whyle they lyued For it is not sayd that these thynges shold helpe them onely whyle they here lyue and not when they are deade And therfore euery man when he endeth thys lyfe can no thynge receyue but that onely whyche he hath deserued beynge here a lyue And in another place he sayth thus what thyng so euer of venyall synnys is not redemed of vs it must be purged wyth that fyre of whyche the apostle sayth that the worke shall appere by the fyre
he hath so shamfully loste his own chyrch of onely good holy people vnknowen clene and pure wyth out spot or wryncle yet that the very chyrche muste nedes be an vnknowen chyrche of onely good holy men at the leste though somwhat wryncled and not all vtterly spottelesse and that it can in no wyse be any knowen chyrch this wyll frere Barns as he weneth well substancially proue so that though he proue not his owne that he promyseth yet wyll he proue that yt can not be oures but some other that neyther he nor we be ware of And therfore he sayth Barns Suche a chyrch muste there nedes be though that the carnall yie can not se her nor the fleshely reason can iudge of her Wherfore we byleue this artycle by fayth that holy chyrche is a communyon or felyshyppe of holy men And we knowe yt not by seynge or felynge as we do the felyshyppe of drapers or mercers for then were yt none artycle of the fayth More Nowe let vs argue lyke A false Iew myght haue sayd in Crystes dayes whyle he preached in Hierusalem To byleue Cryste must be a artycle of the fayth ergo Cryste must be a person vnknowen and not be perceyued by the carnall yie but onely byleued by fayth and not by seyng or felyng as men know a draper or a mercer Thus myghte in those dayes a false Iew haue argued that Cryste hadde not ben very Cryste bycause he was a knowen person And this argument in a maner made the false Iewes in dede when they sayde we knowe this man whense he is but when Cryste cometh no man shall know whense he is But as yt myght haue be answered them that as Criste was both by fayth byleued and yet was also by syght and felyng knowē as well as was in such wyse knowē any draper or mercer eyther for the false Iewes knew hym by the tone meane onely his trew discyples knew hym by both and saynt Thomas of Inde after he hadde both sene hym and felt hym dyd by syght and felynge know his manhed and therewyth by fayth byleued his godhed euen so we know the chyrche by syghte herynge and felynge as we know drapers mercers And we byleue the spyryt of god abydynge therwyth and ledynge yt into all trouthe and Cryste the chyefe hedde therof assystyng yt and preseruyng yt from faylynge agaynste all the gates of hell And we byleue that yt is but one chyrche by professyon of baptysme holyly dedecated vnto god and seuered and openly knowē from all the manyfold open sectes of heretyques as the comen crede sayth that is dayly songē at the masse we byleue one holy apostolyke chyrche whyche worde apostolyque wherfore yt was putte in frere Barons wyll hym selfe as yt semeth not lette to confesse though Tyndale wyll not agree yt And we byleue that the communyon and felyshyp of all suche folke so halowed and dedycated vnto god where so euer they be in the worlde agreynge to gether in the knowē catholyque bylyefe is the bothe knowen and beleued holy catholyque chyrche of Cryste Also we byleue the communyon of sayntes in a nother maner besydes that that is to wyt we byleue that such as lyue here in this chyrche and in this chyrch also dye in the catholyque fayth and in the state of grace shall after thys lyfe haue the communyon and felyshyp of the sayntes that are byfore departed into heuen and that lyued some tyme in this same knowen catholyque chyrche and dyed in the same knowen catholyque fayth Now yf frere Barons aske me how I proue that these wordes of the crede sanctam ecclesiam catholicam be vnderstanden of the knowen catholyque chyrche I wyll proue yt by the wordes of saynt Austayne hym selfe bycause frere Barons beynge professed frere of saint Austaynes order wold seme to sette mych by hym Lo these be therfore the wordes of saynte Austayne ye must knowe that we ought to byleue the chyrch and not byleue in the chyrche for the chyrche is not god but the house of god The catholyque chyrch he calleth the chyrch that is spred abrode thorowe out the hole worlde For the chyrches of heretyques whych be dyuerse are not called catholyke or vnyuersall chyrches For they be conteyned euery secte in some proper place in his owne prouynce But this catholyque chyrche is spred abrode wyth the shynyng lyght of one fayth from the rysyuge vppe of the sonne to the goyng downe There is no greater rychesse no greater treasures no greater honours nor no greater substaūce of thys world than is the catholyke fayth whych saueth synfull men and gyueth to the blynde theyr syght agayne and healeth the syke whych also chrysteneth those that are new come to chrysten relygyon and iustyfyeth the faythfull repayreth penitentes increaceth the ryghteouse folke crowneth martyrs giueth orders to y e clergy cōsecrateth prestes prepareth vs to the kyngdome of heuyn maketh vs felowes coparteners with the holy angels in the euerlastynge inherytaunce who so euer he be what maner of man so euer he be he is no chrysten man y t is not in the chyrche of Cryst For truely she is that onely chyrch of whyche our lord gladly receyueth sacryfyce and which onely maye wythout any dystrust to be herd make intercessyō for those that are wandered out of the way For whyche cause also our lorde cōmaunded of the sacryfyce of the pascall lambe sayeng ye shall eate it in one house onely and ye shall beare no part of that flesshe forth a dores The lambe is eaten in in one house bycause the very trew hoost of our redemar is offred vp in the one catholyke chyrch onely Of whose flesh god cōmaunded forbade that no part shold be borne out of y e dores For he forbydeth vs to gyue any holy thyng to dogges In thys chyrch onely is a good worke frutefully done therfore none receyued the reward of the peny but they onely y t labored within the vyne yerde It is she onely that kepeth them with a strong bonde of cheryte that kepe them selfe within her And for thys cause truely the water of Noyes flode caryed the arke vp to y e hyghar places but she destroyed as many as she foūd wythout the arke She is onely that chyrch in whych we maye veryly byholde the heuenly mysteryes And therfore sayth our lord to Moyses I haue a place thou shalt stand vpon a rocke And soone after I shall take away my hand then thou shalt se me on the backe halfe For bycause the trewth is perceyued sene onely out of the catholyke chyrch therfore sayth our lorde that he hath a place from which he may be sene Moyses is set vpō a rocke to byholde goddes fygure For except a mā holde kepe the sure faste grounde of the fayth he can not dyscerne and knowe the dyuyne presence Dysseuer sayth saynt Cypryan the