their word and bond I know not what that Faith should mean we ordinarily take faith for that whereby we believe and not that which we believe or if you take it so metonymically objectively what is it other then God or the will of God which I suppose you mean the Word of God For God or his will in its Essence is not immediately objected to us but hee reveales his will in his Word but to the substance of this boast and that that followes if there be any substance in it if you will believe God and the sufficiency of his institutions without the sureties of humane reason and authority as you do here equivalently professe you will not be offended at the Congregationall Way for that inconsistency and deficiency that is carnally objected against it As for that you say pag. 6. That this is no new opinion of yours it is no more then the Papists may say for their Mysterie of Iniquity And as for your sufferings for it which you boast of alas sufferings are subject to the same vanity and bondage of corruption as doings yea and the whole creation are i. to be applyed to ill things and graffed with an ill cause though I say not it was ill as opposing Prelacie or as it was a graduall recidivation from that tyranny And as for the acceptance of your endeavours and sufferings in that cause and your inference thereupon That therefore you see no good reason why a truth then should not be counted a truth now You beg the Question Prove first it was a truth otherwise 't is no wonder if that which seemed to be a truth six or seven yeers ago finde not the same acknowledgement now as might be instanced in many particulars Next you come to state the Question pag. 7. and immediately you give that which you call a simile of it but if it be it is 1. a carnall one and I had rather heare and it would better become a spirituall man to compare spirituall things with spirituall for Christs institutions must not be exacted by the Last and Rule of humane ordinances God gave Moses the pattern of the Tabernacle in the Mount he doth not send him to take a pattern for it from any earthly frame or fabrick though there were far more costly and curious but the Tabernacle was to have and had a fashion by it self that differed from all When we know the true nature of spirituall things of the devices of God as I may call them wee may finde a resemblance of them in things here below which are made after them but wee cannot fetch the knowledge of heavenly composures from these earthly things 2. Yet neither is this bed of your simile large enough for the tall and proper limbs of your Presbytery to stretch themselves upon For though the severall Companies in each city as you say though wee have not many such cities in England except you have more of them in Scotland wherein there are such severall Companies that have all their severall halls e. g. Merchant Taylors Grossers c. for to yeeld the matter of this simile are not independent but associate and combined in a common councell c. yet there are Corporations as small as these Companies in the Kingdome that are Independent and doe not act in association or coordination So that if the Churches in the Citie must to hold correspondence with the forme of Civill Government be in association and act in a Presbytery yet this Simile will not carry any such thing to an ordinary understanding that in the Countrey where they live three or foure or more miles asunder and act their Civill affaires independently they must doe so Nay then we will argue from the Simile If the Townes in the Countrey be independent in their Civill Government that is act singly and independently in respect of any other Townes intermedling their own businesses and concernments as they doe why should not the Churches in those Townes doe so too then at least the Churches in the Countrey must be exampted from Presbytery But 3. I answer to your simile That as it is shorter then that Presbytery as you would be willing to extend it in the praxis may stretch it selfe upon so it is abs re farre from illustrating the sense you intend For your simile in the true resolution of it proposes no other then whether Inferiors may act independent of their Superiors For all those appeales whereof you speake are still resolved into a higher notion power and authoritie e. g. The Lord Major Court of Aldermen and Common Councell are superior to any Company or Companies of the Citie in degree as their rulers or amount to a superioritie in value and summe as the representative of the Citie the whole which is better then any part therefore your simile is not fit for this purpose But now if you would propose a proper simile it should be thus Whether Companies or Corporations equall and coordinate may not and doe not act their owne proper affaires and concernments independently in respect of one another i. Whether if a Citizen of Merchant-taylors Company be aggrieved by the carriage of any thing in that Company he can so appeale to the Company of the Stationers and the Company of the Vintners and two or three more or the Heads of these as to subject the Company of Merchant-taylors to the jurisdiction and arbitrament of those Companies for this is the case here As suppose there be no imparity i. superioritie or inferioritie in the Churches but all are coordinate all are one Spouse to Jesus Christ and he intrusts one Congregation as well and as much as another and gives them as large a share of common interest in spirituall government or managing the matters of his Kingdome one Church as another and hath made no Common Councell no Court of Aldermen no Lord Major in his Church nor no Officers or distinctions answering to these And suppose further that as neither male nor female bond nor free so such a distinction of whole and part have no place in this matter but Christ Jesus the quickening Spirit be as in all so all in all and each of these particular bodies and as a whole Christ went for the ransome of each particular Beleever and a whole Christ is in every beleever as the soule tota in toto so the whole and intire glory of Jesus Christ be intrusted with every particular Congregation i. an intire and perfect administration of all government be committed to them and the intire * spirit of government be in each such Congregation Suppose I say it be thus as I conceive it will be found to be that each part be to Christ as the whole Christ being indivisible and recollecting his whole selfe in himselfe and in every part of himselfe which the spirit of humane power order and authority cannot doe and so we cannot weigh Christ against Christ Christs
baptisme fight against the true Baptisme and baptizer the Lord Jesus so that I conceive this Argument were it granted that all the people received Johns Baptisme will stand in little stead to prove the Conclusion viz. That they were made Christians much lesse cast into a Church-mould according to the New Testament forme and least of all that they were all members of one Christian Church at Jerusalem But note an absurdity in the sequell of the discourse where the Doctor having got a multiplying glasse in his hand goes on to make strange discoveries of the increase of Christian Beleevers Pag. 36. he tells us That Christ made many more Disciples and beleevers then John and added daily to the Church that was then in Jerusalem such as should be saved Here 's two Paradoxes First That Christ made more Disciples then John Out of whom should he make them when as John had swept all along with him as you affirme before pag. 32. med. not taking it synecdochically whatever you determine of it here Secondly That Christ should adde daily to the Church that was then in Jerusalem is not this a marvailous anticipation and mistake to apply that which was done by the Disciples after Christs ascension Act. 2. last unto the Ministry of Christ himselfe and yet in the sequell you reckon this to the Apostles also expresly pag. 56. Judge if here be not false Musters And let me tell you you give us occasion shrewdly to suspect your ignorance to say no worse to talke of a Church in Jerusalem besides the Nationall Church of the Jewes in the life-time of our Saviour And thus farre I have taken notice of most of the Materiall Excipienda in your Booke I had thought to have bestowed as much time on the rest but that other Considerations forbad me therefore I shall onely briefly examine the maine Propositions that follow omitting the Amplifications and Collaterall Notions that fall in the handling thereof And so I shall leave this Proposition without taking any further Exceptions to it or any more passages in the asserting of it and the rather because there are and those so able already ingaged in the dispute thereof and come to the second Proposition viz. That all these Congregations and severall Assemblies made up but one Church Which Proposition except the former stand good is to little purpose as the Doctor foreseeing is therefore very briefe in the manifestation of it I shall not therefore be long in the Examination of it though in that little compasse of lines he gives cause of manifold Exceptions For first whereas you say The Brethren themselves acknowledge that all the Beleevers in Jerusalem were all members of that Church If you meane the Church spoken of Act. 15. 4. I deny and say it is a grosse presumption and begging of the Question to say that wee acknowledge all the Beleevers in Jerusalem to be Members of that one ministring Church especially if you reckon all Johns Disciples and Converts to these Beleevers For as there was a good space of time after there were multitudes of Beleevers ere there was such a Church so for any thing hath yet been brought to the contrary it is probable enough that the true Beleevers which were not so many after you have cut off Johns Converts I meane those that did stick in Johns Baptisme which were multitudes and temporary Beleevers which ceased to walke with Christ which were not a few and strangers which did afterwards disperse themselves into severall Countries those that did remaine at Jerusalem did gradually grow up unto Church-fellowship And it amounts to no lesse then the former begging and presumption that which followes viz. That this Proposition is manifest out of the Scripture viz. that they that were convented are said to be added to the Church For what if that be to be understood of the Church Catholick and not a particular Church It may not be denyed that the word Church is often so used in the New Testament and it is suspicious that the three thousand converted at once were not so soone instructed in Church-followship as converted As for that which followes that they continued in the Churches Communion and the Apostles doctrine The Doctor hath moulded the Text for his own advantage and indeed hath falsified it for 't was in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship not in the Churches fellowship except you are content it should be understood in the communion of the Church Catholicke which is no more then in Christian Communion in generall and for ought I know that is all that is meant there And tell me any act wherein the multitude of beleevers did communicate that can bespeake it necessarily to be any more then a Christian Communion in generall or what Christians may have together though not of the same Church and the Doctor himselfe says before The chiefe publique Ordinance they communicated in was preaching To the third Assertion or Branch Pag. 82. which is That the Apostles and Presbyters governed ordered and ruled this Church of Jerusalem consisting of many Congregations and Assemblies by a Common Councell and Presbytery I answer First I am not satisfied by any thing hath been alledged that that Church consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies and that upon the scruples before instanced Secondly In asserting that the Presbyters did rule that Church and ordinarily other Churches whom doe you hit Sure not the Independents as you call them We grant 't is their part to rule but we distinguish between Authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter belongs to the people the other is proper to the Officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church So they i. the Officers ordaine they excommunicate i. pronounce Excommunication they lead and direct in all Government and disputes they have the executive power as you demand pag. 93. But the people have a power and interest too as those places alledged by your selfe shew expresly Act. 15. For tho ver. 2. Paul and Barnabas are said to be sent to the Apostles and Elders only yet ver. 4. they are said to be received of the Church and Apostles and Elders therefore they were sent to the Church also and that word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} with one accord ver. 25. imports a multitude met together and this to be the result of that multitude els it were no great commendation of the resolution that it was convened about and issued forth {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} And though onely the Apostles and Elders are mentioned as coming together to consider of the Question ver. 6. yet it is said ver. 22. that it pleased not onely the Apostles and Elders but the whole Church also therefore the Church also came together to consult or the Apostles and Elders as a Committee first prepared the dispute as not counting it so safe perhaps to admit the weake to the same
while it was intricate and then reported it and had their assistance and concurrence and the Letters of resolution run in the name of the Brethren i. the Church as well as the Apostles and Elders ver. 23. And so in Ordination {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} i. Election by lifting up of the hand belongs to the Brethren though {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} i. Imposition of hands be proper to the Officers where there are Officers as in a Church constituted and compleat 3. That where the whole Church is written to and exhorted to a part of discipline that the Officers onely should be intended as in confirmation of your Assertion you afterwards affirme by the instance of the Church of Corinth we can no way admit Rather on the other hand Christ many times writes and directs his Commands to the Officers when they appertaine to the whole Church and are so to be understood onely written and sent to them as being principall parts of the Churches by and from whom they are ex Officio to be communicated to the whole And for your Simile of Kings directing their Mandats to a Citie or Corporations which are to be executed by the Majors Sheriffes c. I conceive it doth ire in contrarium it is contrariously framed to the manner which is rather to direct to the Sheriffe or Major what doth concerne the Corporation and is required of the whole and so we finde Christ to doe in the Epistles to the seven Churches For that anticipating assertion That the Apostles ruled this Church aggregate not by vertue of their Apostleship but by vertue of its union I shall referre it to the next head viz. That the Church of Jerusalem and the government of the same is to be a pattern for all Congregations and Assemblies in any city or vicinity to unite into one Church and for the Officers and Presbyters of those Congregations to govern that Church joyntly in a Colledge or Presbyterie which is your fourth and last branch of your first Question pag. 97. Answ. 1. They are not an example of uniting or aggregation except it be found that there were many churches aggregated which a very facile and swasible reader may well doubt of for any thing that hath yet been said to make it good 2. If this were granted that many Churches did aggregate and unite in the beginning yet would not this example be bindingly presidentiall For as many things were done out of that ordinary course that was after setled in the creation and in a singular way by themselves as the enlightening of the world without a Sun the watering of the earth with a mist before it rained the producing of fruits ex tempore which things afterwards ceased being digested into orderly rules and courses so might it be in the first plantation of churches Many things might pro tempore be taken up which might not afterwards be continued e. g. The Apostles did * serve Tables at first but afterwards an office was instituted for that on purpose So suppose there were in the Church of Jerusalem a greater multitude then could meet in one place and yet all one church and ruled joyntly by the Apostles and Elders thereof which yet wee do not admit yet could not this from hence be drawne into president because that howsoever the Acts of government which the Apostles exercised together with the Elders in and over this Church were common and ordinary and done after the ordinary manner as the Doctor contends yet I shall make bold to remember him again of that which it seemes hee remembers very well to have been answered in this case formerly though he make not so good an use of it viz. That the extent of their power in the exercising of these Acts there and elsewhere was extraordinary as was their persons and calling to Apostleship And we do not so {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} by this distinction that hee should not know where to have us for 't is easily apprehended what we say is imitable and what not imitable in these Apostles And now for that cavill That the Apostles did not this by vertue of their Apostleship but by vertue of the union of those assemblies I answer that in asserting it thus exclusively of their Apostleship you suppose the Apostles to have been the officers ordinary or at leastwise extraordinary of this Church of Jerusalem only and so that they could not elsewhere exercise the like power or not otherwise then by vertue of an union of churches which is no greater prerogative then you will grant to ordinary officers now and so the Apostles shall have no greater a Commission then we which is as to say their persons were no more extraordinary nor their office then common Presbyters now adayes But thirdly to abound in the answer of this same matter if that many churches in Jerusalem did unite and transact their affaires or some of them joyntly and that therefore we may do so yet it followes not that wee must whether we will or no for this is to urge us beyond the pattern The churches in Jerusalem admit voluntarily spontaneously through the opportunity and advantage of the Apostles help and through the strength of the spirit of love and confidence which they had one to and towards another and for other good causes and considerations did act many things that concern'd the churches in an associated way therefore all churches will they nill they have they the same grounds reasons and incouragements yea or no must do so Is this good Logick And that you may not think here is prevarication or jugling in this businesse I for mine owne part must ingenuously grant and confesse that I am not very solicitous concerning the answer of this matter for whether it were so or it were not so then that they did or did not associate I think it might be so now I mean some kinde of aggregation and union might be though wee might tread more confidently having the steps of the Primitive Churches before us that is to speak more plainly The Churches of Christ now though possessed of an entire independent Church-power in each body yet may when and where and with whom and in what cases or things God shall perswade them transact such affaires as they shall think fit joyntly and sociously provided that hereby they devest not themselves of nor prejudice themselves in any priviledge of an entire sole and and single administration or the like which Christ hath given them but retain that power of resuming and recollecting themselves to themselves when they shall see oâ—casion And if the churches in Jerusalem did so wee have cause to think this was all they did and if the Brethren of Antioch did appeale Acts 15. we have cause to judge it was a free and voluntary appeal and they were not call'd and compell'd thereto And that they and wee in imitation of them might do this
true to their Principles and if in any thing their Principles exceed or go beyond others they must not come down to them although they carry the Odium and prejudice of a separation for it but it is the duty of the others to come to them which if they will not liking rather to correspond with the world how can it be helpt or whose fault is it The second Question is Whether for the making any man or woman a member of the Church it be requisite and necessary to their believing and being baptized that they should walke some dayes weeks moneths perhaps yeers with them c. Answ. Who holds it so but only that they appeare to the Church that receives them to be believers let the means of the churches knowlege or discovery be what it will as it is various so that it be not extraordinary and miraculous we dare not trust Enthusiasmes nor blind charity And to the other part of this Quere Whether confession are required c. I answer confessions are good and may be to edification but are not absolutely necessary therefore not insisted upon as the condition of admission These things being of fact and practice let a briefe account suffice For the third Question Whether to the admission of any to membership or office-bearing in a church the consent of the congregation or the major part thereof as well as officers be requisite Wee hold it yea and that as well in regard every one takes a charge upon him as in respect of interest For the fourth Quere of an Explicit Covenant whether necessary to admission Ans. I know not why it should be more inconvenient then a publique Nationall Covenant which the Doctor by Nation is bred to approve highly of But necessary we hold it not therefore not as the condition of admission so that wee see cause to judge it not to be scrupled in a way of provision for an arbitrary libertie of a roving and unsetled minde to slip the knot when they dislike and dispense from dutie and obligation when they please but that it be meerly a conscientious scruple because they see not sufficient ground for it out of the Word to make it necessary yet will owne a particular tye and relation for spirituall edification in such case who will deny these admission For the fifth Question Of womens votes whether they are admitted in Elections c. I remember a Question once in the Schooles An Doctoris uxor eodem gaudeat privilegio quo Maritus but as for this of Womens voting in the Church wee have no such custome nor any of the Churches of God that I know of For the last Question or Quarrelsome captious Quere rather Whether the practice and preaching of all these things c. be to set up Christ as King upon his throne I answer No Question but the purging and purifying of Church-Ordinances and fellowship which some contend for is to set Christ upon a higher throne visible to the world then by some other wayes he is though wee deny not he may have a throne in many Congregations not of this mould and may be very highly advanced in the hearts of many of our Brethren who never yet gave their names to the Congregationall way In relation to whom my prayer is That if they be in the right the Lord would make them joyfull instruments of instructing us with meeknesse Or if wee that the Lord would by us shew them his will who would doe it and have already received hearts from him to submit to truth from whomsoever ministred to them FINIS The Postscript AS for your Postscript I finde it so foule that I have adjudged it to lie in the STONE-BASON at Tunbridge wells there to be washed till it be clean and fit to finger and then I doubt it will be washed all away Only lest the frenzie thereof should have prevented me and ere this have derived it selfe up and down it may be needfull to adde That whereas * * Pag. 61. of your Postscript you wonder at the lenity and humanity of this Nation towards those men whom you nickname Independents we conceive there will rather be cause to wonder at the clemency of the Parliament if they shall take no notice of this and other your seditious instigations though I had rather see you repent then suffer In the mean time it sufficeth us that you never wrote nor could write such lines by those NEW LIGHTS you jeare with such unchristian yea unmanly levity for a man may safely say such stuffe was written in the dark not by any light either Old or New Prov. 14. 10. Luke 9. Vers 53. Vers 55. Isai. 9. 6. Pag. eadem 1 Cor. 2. 13. Exod 25. 40. 26. 30. Isai. 28. 20. * Rev. 1. 4. 1 Cor. 1. 13. 3 Epist. Joh. Mat. 21. 25. Act. 18. 25. 1 Cor. 10. 3. Mal. 3. 1. * Joh. 3. 26. To the second Proposition Act. 2. 42. Act. 6. 5 6. * Act. 6. 2. Luk. 14. 23. 1 Ep. Joh. 1. Eccles. 4. 11. Zeph. 3. 9. Mat. 18. * Gal. 17. Gal. 4. 19. 2 Cor. 6. 17.