and by 1. Cor. 3.1.2 3. Mat. 18.17.18 and by comparing 1. Cor. 6.11 with 2. Cor. 2.21 and with 1. Cor. 5.1 Often you tell vs the Apostles speech 1. Pet. 2.9 But ye are a chosen generation a royall Priesthood an holy Nation c. is to be vnderstood of the visible Church Well if this be so I am sure the vis Church â—s calâ—ed a chosen generation in respect of the better and more principaâ—l part thereof those vvhich God hath chosen to euerlasting life opposed to the generation of Reprobates verse 8. Why then may not likewise in this respect visible Churches be called the Churches of the Saints Hereunto M. Robinson answereth thus The Scriptures neuer ascribe holinesse to a people for some fewes sake if the rest be vnholy and prophane This is sooâ—er said then proued And vvhy I pray you may not the scriptures call those of the visible Church holy for some fewes sake in it which bee indeede holy as well as giue this witnesse of the twelue Spies which were sent to search out the land of Canaan That they brought word againe and said it is a good land Deut. 1.25 which the Lord our God doth giue vs where but a few of them two of the twelue thus reported the other ten saying Num. 13.31.32 we be not able to goe vp against the people for they are stronger then we a land that eateth vp the inhabitants thereof And so brought vp an euill report of the land which they had searched But I will disproue you by your owne words Not three leaues after Iustif 115. you vvrite thus Here speaking of the vis Church is no such mingle mangle as M. Barnard would make of good and bad but all good and so auowes by the holy Ghost though without doubt many of these were masked and hallow hearted hypocrites If all in the visible church be good men so auowed by the holy Ghost though many Hypocrites bee in it and consequently many bad men then all in the vis Church be Saints and are or may be so auowed by the holy Ghost though there be in it many vnholy and prophane But the first is true by your owne confession Therefore the second Notwithstanding all this that hath beene saide I doe not meane that notorious wicked men are to bee suffered in the church and not to be cast out except they repent God fordid But this is it I say and meane that albeit there be not through the default of the church gouernours a due execution of the church censures vpon the openwicked but that through their negligences or remissenes there remaine in the church many open wicked vncorrected that this impunity maketh not a nullitie in a church as they of the seperation doe teach Secondly I doe meane and out of the premises doe learne That albeit the church of God is to labour to preserue it selfe pure from these spots yet it seldome or neuer attaineth to that beautie and perfection but that some more or lesse bee in the true visible church who ought ratâ—er to be spued out then to haue any place there Which commeth to passe either because these wicked persons cannot be conuicted by manifest euidence or for want of that seueritie in discipline which ought to be in the Church Christ Iesus knowing this that through the corruption of man and wickednes of this world there will be in the church a mixture of good and bad holy and prophane he hath therevpon not onely foretold this and taught it by compaâ—ing the visible church to a field wherein groweth wheatâ—â—nd taâ—es and to a draw-net that gathereth things both good and bâ—d but therewithall seemeth to comfort the faithfull agaiâ—st this mixâ—ure and miserable coâ—pouâ—d assuring the eâ—ect that howsoeuer they shall be thus mingled with the wicked Matth. 13.30 aâ—d enemies of God for a time euen as the wheate and tares be that grow together yet it shall not be alwaiâ—s so with then but that there will come a time of separation when that as the tares are gathered into sheâ—uâ—s to be burned and the wheate into the barne so the wicked shall be cast â—nto a suâ—â—ace of fire where shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth and the iust shall shine as the Sunne in the kingdome of their Father Apology 45. 61. Hereby also another error of yours is conuinced That all the Church is defiled by retaining open wicked in it For if in the Church from time to tiâ—e the e haue beene many open wicked as hath beene plainely shewed how can this position of yours possibly be true But you will prooue it by Scripture 1. Cor. 5.6 A little leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe If a known wicked man in the Church be to the whole Church as a litle leauen in the dough is to the whole lumpe how commeth it to passe that the Church of Corinth by the incestuous person was not vnsanctified all that time tydings were carrying of that notorious sinner from Corinthus in Achata to Paul at Philippi in Macedonia and the Apostles Ep stle carrying backe from Philippi to Corinthus But thaâ— notwithstanding all this sowring aâ—d defyling these men speake of the Apostle writeth to them thus To the Church of God which is at Corinthus to them that are sanctified in Christ Iesus Saints by calling That the sinne of the incestuous p rson was knowne to the Church it is hereby manifest in that the Apostle doeth so sh rpely rebuke them for that they had not excommunicated him which otherwayes he could not iustly haue done That all this time notwithstanding his sinne was knowne the Saints at Corinth held communion with him and he with them and were all of the same body societie it is likewise manifest by these words of the Apostle 1. Cor. 5.2.13 Put away therefore from among your selues that wicked man Hore is an open wicked man in the church of Corinth 1. Cor. 5.2.13 and not onely he but sundry more as appeareth by 2. Cor. 12.20.21 and by diuers other places and yet notwithstanding a true church Concerning this place of Scripture A litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe and some other Scriptures peruerted by you I forbeare to speake here because I haue occasion to say something of them hereafter If 〈◊〉 shall thinke that I neede not to haue spent so many words to prooue the mixture of good and bad in the Church and that in the same there haue beene and remained many open wicked Albeit the Brownists deny such confusion and mixture yet thye make no great matter of it neither doe they from thence conclude that our church is a false church nor iustifie their seperation setting downe this for a cause and reason thereof If any I say thinke thus they shall see by their owne words here following as partly also we haue heard before that they doe greatly mistake the matter and them and that besides the conuincing of
word pretends faith in Christ and in deede denies him This is yâ—ur full answere and that a worthy one Hereby you impâ—y That none are in Scripture called Saints nor may lawfully be so called who be not true beleeuers holy Saints indeede their hearts being purified by faith But all in the visible Church be in holy Scripture called Saints and may lawfully therefore be so called Ergo all in the visible Church by your wise answere be true beleeuers And consequently they shall all be saued Iohn 3.16 For whosoeuer beleeueth shal not peâ—ish but haue euerlasting life If you deny that your words imply that I say then to what purpose serue they certainely they are then idle and haue not so much as the shew of answere in them which makes as little for your credit or cause But grant wee this it mattereth not much seeing but in the lease before in plaine words you in effect teach thâ— same Iustif 107. The scriptures say you doe call men Saints because they are Saints and not for any other cause Your reason followeth For what is it to be a Saint but to be holy We may well therefore thinke that you meant as much as I affirme I deny say yâ—u that euery profession of faith in Christ argues a true beleeuer So doe we A false dissembler is he say you and no true bâ—leeuer that in word pretends faith in Christ and in deede denies him The same say wee What of all this what makes this for you or against vs Nothing at all But besides the former implication it shewes that your fingâ—rs itched to bee scribbling against the profession of faith wh ch for asmuch as it may and doth often fall into dissemblers â—iues you no content and therefore in euery one of thâ— visible Church you will haue besides this profession true faith in Christ and all the members thereof true bâ—leeuers and consequently no disseâ—blers in the Church Thus you shut out of the visibâ—e Church all hypâ—crites and yet both a little before and after confesse that there bee such yea many such in the Church Reconcile But tell me M. Robinson why may not they that professe faith in Christ that holy one be therefore called holy or Saints notwi hstanding they haue no part of Christ his holinesse nor his holy Spirit dwelling in them as well as be cal ed Christ ans of Christ though they partake not vvith him in that holy annointing Againe the profession of Christ an Religion or of faith in Christ is an holy and glorious th ng and therefore vvhatsoâ—uer the persons be that thus professe be they holy or prophane worthily and fitly an holy and glorious name to wit Saints â—ay be giuen to such This saith M. Robinson is all one as if you should say The Scriptures doe not call men Saints because they are Saints but for some other causes knowne to you For what is it to be a Saint but to be holy Iustif 107. And what to be holy but to be of a sound iudgement pure affections and vnblameable conuersation Reply It is one thing to be called a Saint and an other to be a Saint one thing to be a Saint by nomination an other to be such in deede and veritie All that bee Saints indeede are Saints by nomination so called and to bee called and accounted But all that be Saints by nomination so called by the holy Ghost are not Saints indeede and so to bee reputed as you will needs haue it For then all in the Church of the Iewes were Saints or holy indeede forasmuch as they by the Holy Ghost are so called and consequently they were all saued which I trust you will not say Deut. 7.6 14.2 this is rendred for a reason why the Israelites should not conform themsâ—lues to the Nations about them neither in their religion or worship nor yet in other things of lesse moment as in cutting themselues in making baldnesse betweene their eyes for the dead For thou art an holy people vnto the Lord thy God And Deut. 14.27 Ye shall eate of nothing that dieth alone c. For thou art an holy people vnto the Lord thy God Againe Iam. 2.7 Doe not they euen those blasphemers saith Iames blaspheme the worthy name after which yee be named Hereby it is plaine that we are sometimes named or called not according to that which we be but in some other respect or as you say for some other causes else all of vs should alwaies bee such as our names pretend then vvhich nothing is more false The blasphemers here spoken of were named or called Christâ—ans yet sure you will not say they were Christians indeede They who at this day are baptised into Christ Iesus and profâ—sse faith in him haue the worthy and glorious name of Christians from Christ after whom they be so called yet all such bee not true Christians euen so all of the visible Church are called Saints and such by nomination and yet be not all Saints indeede not all of a sound iudgement pure affection and vnblameable conuersation as you tâ—ll vs. Lastly the Apostle might well call all in the visible Church Saints hauing respect and relation to those in it that vvere Sainâ—s indeede sanctified by the Spirit of God and faith in Christ Iesus the visible Church hauing this denomination of the better part by a Synecdoche all being called Saints because part of them are so indeede With this exposition maketh that those he nameth Saints are said to be sanctified in Christ Iesus Paul an Apostle to them that are sanctified in Christ Iesus Saints by calling And vvhy might not Paul in this titlâ— Saints respect only the true Saints Elect of God as well as in some other speeches of his in his Epistles 1. Cor. 12.27 6.11.19.20 and namely in these Ye are the body of Christ your bodies are the members of Christ your body is the Temple of the holy Ghost which is in you Ye are bought for a price Rom. 8 15. Gal. 4.6 Ye are washed ye are sanctified ye are iustified in the name of our Lord Iesus and by the spirit of our God Ye haue receiued the Spirit of Adoption Ye are the sonnes of God with infinite more such like Wee see a man is said to be a reasonable liuing creature of the better part the soule wherein alone is both the reason and life the body which is another parâ— wanting both Thus we vse to say Goe winnow the wheate in the barne not naming the chaffe though there bee more chaffe then wheate in the heape and that the wheate cannot be well seene for the chaffe Euen so the visible Church may bee called Saints in respect of the better part though the lesser and fewer in number be many the scripture therein ascribing to all that which is due properly and belongeth onely to some vvhich is vsuall in the holy scriptures as appeareth by the aforesaid testimonies
because in the beginning of Queene Elizabeths raigne and likewise at this day our parishionall assemblies are no such societies as consist of such onely but had and now haue in them many false and counterfeite Christians and Professors Therefore at the first they were and so continue false visible Churches Is there any so blind who seeth not that hereby they shut out of the Church all Hypocrites For true Professors are opposite to false and counterfeite Professors which are those we call Hypocrites A true Professor is he who is the sonne in trueth that he professeth and maketh shew to be Who professing godlinesse is godly Directly contrary to this man is the Hypocrite The like may be saide of a faithfull and true Christian But a true visible Church saide those Schismaticks is a company of true Professors and Christians and not a mixt company of true and false Professors Therefore in the visible Church by their doctrine there are no Hypocrites With Barrow and Robison doth Maister Ainsworth accord Counterp 72. as being led by the same spirit The Apostle saith he sheweth Iam 1.18 1. Pet. 1.23 That Christs Church is a people begotten with the word of trueth that is the Gospell but your Church was first begotten gathered constituted ordered and is still continued by the Magistrates word and authoritie which if it did not enforce the people the estate wherein you now stand would soone bee changed and your Church dissolued And where you learned so to inforce faith and constraine men to bee members of your Church Alcoran chap. 18. 19. I can not tell vnlesse you would follow Mahomets doctrine who taught that men should bee compelled to the faith by the sword Before you teach that a visible Church is a company of people that doe repent and beleeue the Gospell and here you terme it a people begotten by the Gospel and borne a new nor of mortall but of immortall seede and so all are regenerated that bee in the visible Church and consequently shall inherit the Kingdome of heauen For can hee dye that is begotten and borne of immortall seede whereof both these Apostles speak This doctrine and all of this kinde hereafter following take it as it is by you deliuered and it is palpably false so as it needeth no confutation But your meaning it seemeth is that All in the true visible Church liue so holily righteously and soberly touching their outward carriage before men that wee cannot in equity nor charity account otherwise of them then faithfull and such as haue repented and are conuerted to God and are begotten and borne a new Principles and Inferences 7. yea Elect as M. Smith saith And for this cause as these men suppose all in the visible Church are called Saints and Faithfull As Ephes 1.1 Paul an Apostle of Iesus Christ c. But herein it must needs be they are deceiued seeing there haue beene true visible Churches in former times wherein some members and those not a few haue beene so vile and abominable as the faithfull then liuing could neither in equitie nor charitie iudge so of them as you speake Except they should haue iudged otherwise of the tree then according to the fruits nay cleane contrarie to it whereas our Lord sayth Yee shall know men by their fruits Mat. 7.16 euen as the tree is knowne by the fruits thereof That which M. Smith here affirmeth I haue answered here after in the next Chapter and thither I referre the Reader for further satisfaction Obserue besides the abuse of scripture here Note here their peruerting of Scripture The words of Iames be Of his owne will begate hee vs with the word of truth that wee should be the first fruits of his Creatures By vs who are said here to be begotten by the Gospell the Apostle meaneth himselfe and the rest of the faithfull members of the inuisible Church and not himselfe the rest of the visible Church as you fondly imagine and beare the simple Reader in hand Rom. 6.13 12.2 As the first fruits vnder the Law were dedicated to God and offered vnto him so all the faithfull consecrate and giue vp themselues wholly to God a liuing sacrifice holy acceptable vnto him which is their reasonable seruing of God and not all of the visible Church as you in the application of this Scripture tell vs the most whereof giue themselues and their members as weapons of vnrighteousnesse vnto sinne wherein they walke according to the course of this world and after the Prince that ruleth in the ayre euen the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience Of true beleeuers and none others S. Peter also speaketh For they onely are borne a new of that immortall seede hee mentioneth which Iohn 1.12 proueth As many as receiued him to them hee gaue power to be the sonnes of God euen to them that beleeue in his name Againe these that are thus borne a new as 23. vers are said to be redeemed vers 18. to beleeue in God verse 21. To haue their soules purified by the Spirit verse 22. But such as bee of the inuisible Church onely are redeemed beleeue in GOD Counterpoys 158. are purifyed by the Spirit Of such therefore the Apostle here speaketh Hereby it is plaine that you speake vntruely when you say That places setting forth the inuisible Church are not by you brought to set forth the visible Church Yet Ainsworth in slandering and blaspheming our Church is worse and more intollerable then Barrowes whereof wee haue heard before Hee saith not onely that our Church was first begotten and gathered but addeth and is still continued by the Magistrates word and authoritie excluding the words of GOD as if our Church were neither begotten at first nor continued now by the Ministerie of the Word And where learned yee say you so to inforce Faith and constraine men to be members of your Church I answere Not out of the 18. and 19. Chapters of Alcoran which you by your Cotation in the margent imply but out of the sacred scriptures Not from the example of Mahomet but from the commended examples of the godly Kings of Iudah as I haue shewed Thus much you cannot tell or see The greater is your ignorance and blindnesse A spirit of errour hath put out the eye of your vnderstanding But where learne you to compare the doctrine of God to Mahomets doctrine and the examples and practise of the good Kings of Iudah which you acknowledge all Christian Princes should follow with Mahomets example and practise Counterpois 230. Cursed is that zeale which carieth a man beyond all bands of truth and sobrietie Paul being very zealous spake yet the words of truth and sobernesse The Lord lay not this blasphemie to your charge To that which hath been said I onely adde this That if a visible Church were a company of men truely and vnfainedly religious as you in your whole doctrine of the visible church
called vpon in and by the ministerie of the word that they would be saved and supp with Christ eat and drinke with him in the kingdome of his Father are the visible Church Reu. 3.20 Mat. 26.27 This cannot be denyed But good and bad are therevnto invited The visible Church therefore doth consist of these two kinds of men and not of righteous onely as the Separists doe teach Againe this mixture which we doe hould nay that the most of the visible Church are wicked is manifest by that which Iesus annexeth to this Parable wherewith al he doth knit it vp Verse 14. for many are called but few chosen Al that be vnder the call or voice of God calling vpon them in and by the Ministry of the word that they would repent and beleeue that so they may be saved and yeild an outward obedience to this call are the visible Church Of these saith Iesus that haue this externall calling and are the visible Church Ne putatetur sicut Donatistae putant quod velut vnus in turba latenter sui repsisset ignaris continuo Dominus in eodem ipso vno quem ligatis manibus pedibus in tenebras exteriores ex illo conuiuio proijci Iusfit multam societatem malorum esse intelligendam inter quos pauciores boni in conuivio Dominico viuunt significare non distulit Nam posteaquam dixit Ligate illi manus pedes proijcite eum in tenebras exteriores ibi erit fletus stridor dentium continuo subjecit Multi sunt vocatj Pauci vero electi Quomodo hoc verum est cum potius vnus e multis suisset proiectus in tenebras exteriores nisi quia in illo vno grande corpus figurabatur omnium malorum ante Domini iudicium conviuio Dominico permixtorum A quibus se boni corde interim ac moribus separant simul manducantes bibentes corpus et sanguinem Domini August Tom. 7. contra Donat. post collat cap. 20. there are many but among those but a few good and such as shall be saved And this is the scope and drift of the aforesaid Parable as is playne by the inference that he maketh thereupon in these words next following the said Parable for many are called but few chosen Wherein Iesus sheweth how this commeth to passe which before he hath taught in the Parable to wit that in the visible Church there are so many wicked and so few good so many prophaine earthly minded men and so few that doe earnestly desire and seeke after heaven and those things that lead therevnto and namely faith and holines without which no man shall see the Lord. Because saith he in the visible Church their are few elect who only can and doe beleeue and out of that faith leade an holy life the rest being reprobates and left in their naturall wickednes cannot but be wicked All in the visible Church these few elect excepted are wicked profane vncleane and an abomination to the Lord. With such faithfull ones converts such Saints righteous and holy persons as these doth the visible Church abound and overflow And this is no lesse manifest by the Parable of the seed wherein as the Minister of Christ it compared to a sower the word preached to seede so is the visible Church coÌ„pared to the field where seed is sowen and to such a field whereof three parts is naught and a fourth onely good By that which hath beene said it is manifest that in the Church visible there be not onely wicked men and extreamely or out of measure wicked but that the most therein are wicked children of Belial and few righteous therein to be found Yea the aforesaid cause and reason of our Sauiour considered how can it possibly be otherwise If therefore this be the state of our Church at this day as too true it is that in it there are many wicked and few godly yet this wickednes and vngodlinesse of the people and mixture of so many bad with so few good le ts not but that notwithstanding wee may bee and indeede are a true visible Church Tell mee now I beseech you how the aforesaid lines of yours for which you pretend Scripture and those that I haue here deliuered which all men may euidently see are grounded vpoÌ„ the holy Scriptur can possibly stand together You say that a true visible Church is a company of Righteous or godly men not mixed with but separated from the wicked of the world Wee say that it is not such a separated company but a mixt company of godly and wicked good and bad holy and profane You say that in the visible Church there is no vncleane thing that is no wicked person we say that in the visible Church the most are vncleane and wicked yea sometimes almost all be such And as this which we teach hath beene confirmed and your errour herein conuinced by the sacred Scriptures so may it be by your owne writings yea by the words next and immedâ—ately following your description of the visible Church wherein you teach this false and erronious doctrine Hauing defined or described the visible Church That is a company of people called and separated from the world by the Word of God and ioyned together by voluntary profession of the faith of Christ in the fellowship of the Gospell Apology 44. You thereupon make this inference And therefore no knowne Atheist vnbeleeuer hereticke or wicked liuer may be receiued or retained a member in the Church of Christ which is his body Now in that you say no knowne Atheist vnbeleeuer hereticke or wicked liuer you thereby imply and secretly acknowledge that Atheists vnbeleeuers and wicked men may be receiued retained members in the visible Church so they bee not openly knowne to bee such If then in the true visible Church there haue euer beene are and will be Atheists vnbeleeuers heretickes and wicked liuers as your selues according to the truth acknowledge then is the visible Church by your owne Doctrine a confused and mixt company of good and bad holy profane and not a separated company of Righteous men Saints and faithfull in your sence except Atheists vnbeleeuers heretickes and wicked liuers be righteous men be Saints be faithfull If you deny that your aforesaid inference doth imply so much as I affirme I make it plaine thus He that shall say No knowne Whoremonger may bee admitted to the Lords supper therein confesseth that a close or vnknowen whoremonger may bee admitted to the Lords supper Euen so it is in this case These men being thus conuinced and yet not enduring it may be to yeelde I knowe what will be their shift and euasion euen the same which the Donatists in the like case vsed before them Malos in ecclesia permixtos esse confessi sunt Donatistae sed oucultos cos esse dixerunt August Tom. 7. contra Donatistas post collat Cap. 7. Defence of the Churches and Minist of
this their error there was iust cause of the pursuing hereof to the full according as I was able Defence of the Churches and Ministers of England 7. Counterp 3. Your people saith M. Fr. Iohnson are not seperated from the world but stand in confusion with it and therefore cannot bee deemed a true church of God and the people of Christ But leauing this man let vs heare what M. Ainsworth saith thereunto in a booke lately published called the Counterpoyson We forsake saith he your church for this maine corruption that all sorts of prophane and wicked men haue ben and are both they and their seede receiued into and nourished within the bosome of your church contrary to the first couenant of our redemption wherein God with his own mouth proâ—laimed a perpetuall enmitie and warre against the serpent and his seede which the woman and her seede should wage though with the bruysing of the heele thereof Gen. 3. Contrary also to the example of all Gods churches since the world began who alwayes were seperated from the vngodly as the Scriptures shewe Now that this is a corruption among you your selues haue taught saying and complayning that in the church are swarmes of Atheists Idolaters Papists sectaries witches charmers sorcerers murtherers theeuâ—s adulterers lyars c. This testimony being true I hope your selues now will be ashamed to pleade that such a people are Christians and to be communicated with or deny that we may seperate from them in things concerning God And a little after saying there are 4. causes of their seperation he telleth vs that the first of them concerning the people meaning because of the mixture of bad with good which is among vs. Seeing the falsehood and vanitâ—e of these and the rest of the lines here following doe manifestly appeare by the premises I wil not bee so vnwise as at large conuince you the second time onely by the way as it were I will say a word or two as I shall see cause That wicked men that is open wicked men for that is your meaning are not to be suffered to remaine in the church we acknowledge especially if they be very vile and abhominable dogges and swine and that where such a thing is endured it is a corruption and the sinne of that Church We likewise confesse that in our church are many open wicked So that in proouing that which we freely confesse to bee true where about M. Ainsworth hath spent a great part of his Counterpoyson you deale very childishly But if passing by this you hereafter prooue that we deny you shall quit your seâ—ues like men Gen. 3.15 In the meane season wee haue two proofes or arguments from you such as they are It is say you contrary to the first couenant of our redemption I will put enmitie betweene thee and the woman and betweene thy seede and her seede hee shall breake thine head and thou shalt bruise his heele The next tâ—me you write conclude from this Scripture that the being of open wicked in the Church doeth nullifie a Church and giue iust cause to the godly of seperation If this you cannot wherof I am very sure you abuse both this Scrâ—pture and the reader You imply here and teach expressely else where That the couenant of redemption and saluation God made with the visible church That this is false I haue made plaine hereafter and wil not therefore speake of it heere Note their peruerting of Scripture Where learne you by the woman and her seede to vnderstand Christ and the visible Church you haue not beene taught this of God Besides you contradict your selfe For in your confession of Faith you vnderstand this Scripture of the inuisible Church Art 5. Where for proofe of this that the Elect all and onely are redeemed you alleadge Gen. 3.15 I will put enmitie c. You intimate also that the perpetuall enmitie that is in the world for Religion is betweene them onely that are in the Church and them that are without and that there is no enmitie but all amitie and friendship among those that are in the visible Church They all beare vnfaiâ—ed loue one to another as in your description of the visible Church you teach You might be of the Famiâ—y of loue Familists and not Brownists by this doctrine of yours The holy Scriptures shew vs the direct contrary That euen in the Church and betweene the members thereof there hath beene perpetuall enmitie and deadly hatred whence it hath alwayes beene that that some of the Church haue slandered raised vpon and saide all manner of euill against the godly and often times spoyled them not onely in their good name but also in their goods banished imprisoned and put them to death Caine belike had no enmitie to Habel nor Esau to Iacob nor Saul to Dauid nor the Scribes and Pharisees to the faithfull then liuing Your sâ—cond reason is That since the world beganne there was neuer in the Churches of God a mixture of wicked and prophane with the godly but the godly were alwayes seperated from the vngodâ—y And therefore ought to be so at this day Prooue the Antecedent and we will graunt you the conclusion Haue I not shewed that this mixture was in the families of Abraham and Isaack wherin the Church was shut vp for a time Also in the Church in Moses time in Dauids time and the ages succeeding him and lastly in the dayes of Christ Nay I haue made it plaine that in Dauid Isaiah Ieremiah Micah their times there were not only wicked men and open wicked but so many wicked and vngodly in the Church that there were scarce any godly to bee found Psal 12.1 according to that complaint of Dauid vnto God Helpe Lord for there is not a godly man left In like manner did the church swarme with wicked yea open wicked wheÌ„ our lord Iesus was on earth as hereafter shal be made euident Counterp 23. How far are you then from the truth who teach That there neuer haue beene prophane and wicked men in the Church and that this is contrary to the example of all Gods Churches since the world began Obserue their abuse of holy Scripture who alwayes were seperated from the godly as you say and againe in these words They cannot shewe any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a seperated people Gen. 6.1.2 12. Leuit. 20.23.24 Ezr. 6.21 Act. 2.40.41 19.9 c. If for confirmation of this grosse and palpable error you should cote as many places of Scripture as there be heares of your head it would doe you no good but onely shewe that you feare not to peruert holy Scripture to take the name of God in vaine no more then a fish to drinke water And here marke I beseech thee Christian Reader wherein we and these Seperatists differ as touching seperation Wee acknowledge a seperation of the people of God and professors of true
there are none of the diuels children for the diuell raigneth in all his children But you say in the visible Church there bee none in whom the Prince of this world the deuill raigneth for it is a company seperated from all such Therefore in the visible Church there are no children of the diuel and so by consequent are all the children of God by faith in Iesus Christ But these things you knowe and acknowledge to be false that therefore from whence they are inferred which all of you stiffely hold and maintaine to wit that the visible Church is a company of people seperated from the world is likewise false This generaall doctrine of theirs he thus applieth to vs. Answere to a censorious Epistle pag. 5. Which seperation the church of England neither hath made nor doeth make but stands actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without seperation for which cause amongst others we haue chosen by the grace of God rather to seperate our selues to the Lord from it then with it from him in the visible constitution of it Answere It is true we neither haue made nor goe about to make a seperation from the men of this world and betwixt them whom Christ by his spirit ruleth and them in whom the Prince of this world raigneth This passeth our skill and power and is such as is vnpossible to be performed by vs. Our Lord Iesus onely can and will doe this by the Angels in the day of his glorious comming to iudgement And where you say that wee stand actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome it is false and slanderous For we onely stand actually one with all those in the kingdome that professe the same religion with vs which the Pap among vs who be not a few with whatsoeuer other hereticks or schismatiks do not except it be in hypocrisie which we cannot hinder but must leane to God therfore I say we stand not actually one with all in the kingdome except there be in our land no Papists no Heretickes or Schismaticks If you obiect heere our Church Papists and say that we receiue Papists into our Church and communion with vs. It is answered already and I adde They professe to be of the same Christian Religion with vs and to forsake poperie in comming to our publike assembles and pertaking with vs there in the holy things of God If they doe this hypocritically what is that to vs But especially marke that this is one cause of their seperation yea a principall cause thereof as he saith in another place In these two respects principally Answere to a censorious Epistle pag. â— your Babilonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without seperation and your Babilonish bondage vnder your lords the prelates we account you Babylon and flee from you And speaking of this want of seperation Ibid. 43. and confusion else where he hath these words It is not by our sequestration but by your confusion that Rome and hell gaines Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church in whose lap the vilest miscreants are dandled sucking her breasts as her naturall children is that aduantageth hell Wee see how this man condemneth the mixture of good and bad godly and vngodly in the Church calling it an odious commixture confusion and Babilonish confusion that principally for this and one other cause they account vs Babylon and flye from vs. And yet hath this commixture of all sorts of people beene euer in the Church as hath beene manifested out of the sacred Scripture What age then could these men haue liued in wherein they might not for this cause as iustly haue seperated from the Church and haue accounted it likewise Babylon It cannot be denied but that in Sauls raigne there were most vile men dandled as you tearme it in the lap of the Church considering he himselfe the head of that people was so vile Nay by the booke of the Psalmes it is euident that in Dauids time there were store of leawde and vile men in the Church Psal 12. 69. And so were there in the dayes of Isaiah Ieremiah and other of the Prophets Yea what say you M. Robinson to the age wherein Christ Iesus liued and his Apostles The Scribes and Pharisees then were most vile miscreants and they being principâ—l members in the Church as the eyes re in the body it must bee confessed that they did sit in the lappe of the Church and sucked her breasts as if they had beene her naturall children No lesse vile were those that had crept into the church of whom Iude speaketh Yet notwithstanding this commixture and Babilonish confusion as you call it did neither the Prophets nor Iesus nor his Apostles seperate from the Church but had religious communion with this confused society consisting of all sorts of people The commixture then in our Church you speake of is no iust cause of seperation and why you should account vs Babylon But râ—turnâ— we to M. Robison Ibid. 4. The seperation wee haue made in respect of our knowledge and obedience is indeede late and newe yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as auncient as the Gospel which was first founded in the enmitie which God himselfe put betwixt the seede of the woman and the seed of the serpent Gâ—n 3.15 Which enmitie hath not onely ben successiuely continued but also visibly manifested by the actuall seperation of all true churches from the world in their collection and constitution before the Lawe vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell Gen. 4.13.14.16 6.1 2. 7.1.7 with 1. Pet. 3 20.21 12. Leu 20.24.26 Neh. 9.2 Ioh. 17.14.16 Act. 2.40 19.9 1. Cor. 6.17 Aâ—swere If we speake of practise among vs your seperation is as auncient as Browne who first caused or at least greatly furthered that seperation and schisme from our Church where vpon you are called Brownists But if you speake of the doctrine August Tom. 7 contra Cresco Gram. lib. 2. cap. 34. then is it as auncient as Donatus after whom some were called Donatists or rather as some schismaticks in Cyprians time of whom Austen writing against the Donatists maketh mention That the visible Church is not a mixt company consisting of good and bad but is a company seperated from the world that is from the men of the world or a seperated company of righteous men which all of you doe hold this I say is neither founded of the Lawe nor Gospell nor any part of Gods word but in the bottomles pit by the diuell the father of lyes I meane of all lying and false doctrines and was long since publ shed August Tom. 7 Collâ—tiâ—nâ—bus cum Donatists and contended for by the former heretickes specially the Donatists who for this cause seperated from the Church of God in their times and is now after many hundred
in the visible Church are members of it vntill by excommunication they bee cut of But by your owne confession wicked men are in the visible Church therefore wicked men are members of it Which if it bee true all your doctrine almost of the visible Church is false But to put an end to this point and part of your description By the premises it is plaine that a true visible Church is not seperated from the world that is a company of righteous and godly men onely seperated from the open wicked of the world For if a visible Church be a mixt company of good and bad godly and vngodly for which cause it is compared to a barne floore to a field and to a draw-net as hath been shewed out of the holy Scriptures againe if from time to time in the ages precedent both vnder the Law and Gospell there haue beene and remained in the true visible Church vvicked yea many wicked and open wicked as hath likewise been made manifest by the Scriptures how can it possible be true which you affirme That a visible Church is a seperated companie of righteous men not mixed with but seperated from the wicked of the world If this doctrine of yours be true the one of these doe necessarily follow either the former persons of whom I haue spoken so much Ismael Esau Doeg Saul Absalom the Scribes and Pharises were not openly wicked and men of this world or not in the Church but without or else that the Church wherein they in thâ—ir time liued was not a true but a false Church The premises considered it is very fondly done of you so often to obiect against vs the mixture of good and bad in our Church Calling it Cofusion Babel Babilonish confusion and our Churches because of it Babylon and a meere madnesse for this cause to seperate from our Church And thus much concerning this clause in your description seperated from the world The rest of your description I omit as not greatly to bee found fault with though something might bee said against it For where you say It is a company ioyned together by voluntarie profession you should raâ—her haue said ioyning together c. Wee are ioyned and knit together by loue and doe ioyne and agree in the same profession And where you require a voluntarie profession of the faith of Christ and tels vs elsewhere that a true Church consisteth of a voluntary people and that ours are confused and compelled and so a false church You must know that a man may bee of the visible Church albeit his profession be not voluntarie as hath been declared before Neither is that so fit you adde of the Faith of Christ as if you had said of the true Religion The Papists professe the faith of Christ and so doe the Anabaptists Families with sundry others and yet are they false Churches But whatsoeuer societie professeth true Religion is a true church To conclude Apology 44. Confession of Faith 11. Counterp 133. this I say that vnderstanding these words seperated from the world as Christ meaneth Ioh. 17.14.16 and 15.19 Which testimonies you here in your confession of faith and in the Counterpoyson alledge for the proofe of this and therefore must so vnderstand them without manifest peruerting of the said Scriptures then is this a description rather of the militant Church or those of the inuisible Church that are effectually called then of the visible Church CHAP. III. Of the matter and forme of the visible Church AS these men doe greatly erre in their description of the visible Church so doe they likewise in other points touching the same and namely about the matter and forme thereof Iustification 88. 82. The constitution of the Church saith M. Robinson is the orderly collection and coniunction of the Saints into and in the couenant of the new Testament wherein the Saints are the matter the couenant the forme from which two concurring the Church ariseth and is by them constituted And in another place deliuering the very same with this hee addeth And this is that which giues true being of a Church and nothing else Because of this let vs so much the more carefully seeke out the true matter aâ—d forme of the visible Church and remember that if the Separists mistake the matter and forme of the visible Church as the trueth is they doe they cannot iudge aright of the Church and therefore their iudgement and account of our Church is to be despised We hold as hath already beene saide men not Angels or any other creatures but a company of men to be the matter of the visible Church and the profession of true Religion to be the forme So that wheresoeuer there is a company of men ioyning together in the profession of true Religion the same is and may truely be called a visible Church The Seperators teach otherwise and first that Saints are the matter of the visible Church forgetting that a company of Saints are a Church by the Testimony of the holy Ghost as before hath beene shewed in the third Chapter of the first booke and therefore such a societie containeth in it as well the forme as the matter without both which nothing can be But we must know that howsoeuer the Separists euen all of them agree in this That Saints are the matter of the visible Church yet notwithstanding they disagree at least in appearance about the matter because they differ about these Saints who Instif 105. principles and Inferenâ—es 10. M. Smith in his Answere to M. Beâ—n rd 27 28. Separatists Schisme 83. Counterp 174. and what they be Saints say some of them are a people forsaking all knowne sinne doing all the knowne will of God growing in grace and continuing to the ende and these say M. Smith and M. Robinson are the onely matter of the visible Church This being conuinced by some of our side M. Ainsworth answereth thus This position meaning the aforesaide description of Saints and that such are the matter of the visi church I deny and also disclaime the errors which be gathered from it and therefore will spend no time in answering it but referre M. Bernard to them that haue so spoken or written if any be This we hold and let vs see what M. Bernard can say against it That Saints by calling are the onely matter of a true visible church For confutation of this that M. Ainsworth and the more auncient of this schisme doe maintaine that little which hath beene saide may suffice and the rather because but a litle before M. Ainsworth accordeth with vs and is as contrary to himselfe herein as we be Counterp 170. To the constitution of a Church saith he there belong 1. A people as the matter whereof and 2. A calling gathering and vniting together as the forme whereof the Church consisteth Where obserue how he contradicteth himselfe 1. Hee expressely affirmeth that a people which is the same that wee teach
by the testimonies themselues Now herein you might haue saued your labour and rather haue bestowed more paines in prouing that we deny then that we grant But any thing you thinke will serue to delude the simple Yea but the three last testimonies 2. Cor. 6.17 Act. 2.42 Heb. 10.24.25 speake to the issue for they directly prooue That the children of God of the light and day and the heires of blessing are commaunded to seperate from meaning in diuine worship the children of men of this world of the diuell and of curse and to entertaine and continue an holy communion among themselues onely Thus saith M. Ainsworth in plaine and expresse wordes It is true that in the first of these places to the sonnes and daughters of God this commandement is giuen Come out from among them and seperate your selues But vvho are those of whom the Apostle speaketh and from whom he commandeth the children of God for to seperate and not ioyne with in diuine worship It is euident they were the Corinthian Idolaters that worshipped a false God The highest degree of Idolatry and most grosse Idolaters that can be What doth Paul now require of the Corinthian Saints to whom he writ this That they ioyne not with these idolaters their neighbours in their idolatrous and false worship nor in any other of their pollutions This hindreth or prohibiteth not but that they might communicate with these Idolaters in true diuine vvorship publike or priuate But suppose that this place of Paul prohibiteth all communion with all idolaters in their false and idolatrous worship whether they worship a false and fained god or the true God falsely which is all that is forbidden in the word that letteth not but that wee may haue religious communion with idolaters in true Diuine worship If then we may lawfully ioyne together with idolaters in the worship of God in hearing the word and Prayer then certainely with the children of men of this world of the Diuell and with them that are without and no members of the church For such as these are all Idolaters Thus wee see this Scripture makes nothing for you and is therefore peruerted by you Let vs now proceede to the next testimonie Act. 2.42 And they continued meaning the members of the vis Church in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayers This declareth how greatly they of the Church were affected towards the word and worship of God vvherein they did dayly exercise themselues both in publike and priuate but neither denyeth nor forbiddeth all communion in diuine worship with them that are without no more then this Scripture there following And they sold their possessions and goods and parted them to all men of the Church as euery one had neede forbiddeth all communicating of our goods with them which are without And as well may one from hence conclude that such as are of the visible Church may not minister vnto the necessities of them that are without as this from ver 42. that they of the visible Church may haue no religious communion with them that are without Fâ—ame your argument when you please for the proofe of this latter and I will compâ—se as good a one for the former Your third and last testimony is Heb. 10.24.25 Let vs consider one another to prouoke vnto loue and to good workes not forsaking the fâ—llowship that we haue among our selues as the manner of some is but let vs exhort one another We answere first it is not cleere that the Apostle speakes here of the publike assemblies but happily of the priuate meetâ—ngs the faithfull had And this latter is probable for these two Râ—asons Fâ—rst bâ—caâ—se the priuate and brotherly fellowship serueth spâ—cially to the increase of mutuall loue wherevnto the fai hfull be here exhorted Secondly in the words immediatâ—ly precedent and subsequent hee exhorteth to priuaâ—e duties wee may vvell therefore thinke he doth the like also If this now be so this Scripture maketh nothing at all for you no more then that of Peter 1. Pet. 2.17 Loue brotherly fellowship But be it granted that this is meant of the pubâ—ike assemblies against which I vvill not contend notwithstanding it makes not any thing against vs. For who doubteth but that the faithful that is the professors of faith in Christ or members of the vis Church doe vsually they alone and none but they assemble and ioyne together in hearing of the Word and prayer And that vsually it falleth out in the Church that some playing the Apostates forsake these assemblies of the Saints eyther ioyning themselues to some other assemblies as being Heretickes or Schismatickes or else vvith Demas imbracing this present world This is it we here learne and from this latter onely wee are here dehorted Doth it now herevpon follow that the faithfull may not admit vnbeleeuers and them that are without the Church to communicate with them in diuine worship and haue religious communion together with them Nothing lesse Here is no such thing forbidden no more then in and by this speech Gal. 6.10 doe good to the houshould of Faith that is to all that professe the same faith with vs to wit the members of the vis Church we are forbid to doe good vnto all or to them that are without But besides these expresse and plaine testimonies of Scripture as you thinke you haue a forcible reason drawne from the word for the fortifying of this your opinion Wee may not say you ioyne with them that are without or with the open wicked in the worship of God Communion of Saints 469. or haue any holy communion with them For by their wickednesse both the faithfull Defence of the churches and Mâ—nistery of England 70. and the holy things of God are polluted This doctrine of your owne you apply vnto vs. Into your assemblies say you doe come many open and notorious sinners knowne drunkards whoremongers prophaners of the Sabbath swearers c. Whereby the holy things of God and the faithfuâ—l are defiled Reasons for Seperation for this cause wee dare not haue religious communion with you but seperate Wee answere It maketh nothing for you nor against vs that there are knowne wicked in our assemblies which vvee deny not seeing by their presents neither the faithfu l nor the holy things of God are polluted vnto the faithfull which thus we make manifest If any sinners pollute the holy things of God to the faithfull as the word sacraments prayer then certainely doe notorious wicked Ministers which in such speciall manner are occupied about them They are the mouth of God to the people and the peoples to God they touch with their hands the holy elements But notorious wicked Ministers defile not the holy things of God to the Saints Therefore none be they neuer so notorious wicked That Ministers notoriously wicked pollute not the worship of God nor the faithfull ioyning with them therein it is manifest by