seruice to euil kinges he addeth least this long treatise shoulde seeme altogeather impertinent that he could not chuse but oppose to the fanaticall spirites and traiterous allegations both of these dangerous innouators of the rebellious Papistes But alas why are we poore Ministers as he calleth vs before whom a man of meane estate wil not regard so dangerous He answereth because we would haue our soueraignes kingdome to be holden at the chiefe inferior magistrates the people or Presbyteries deuotion Oh heauen O earth O Lorde our God the searcher of the secreats of all hearts the author of the holy discipline we seek reueale we besech thee our horrible treason bring vpon vs our children for euer vtter cōfusion in this life in y ◠life to come if this wickednes be either intended thought vpon or be likely to follow vpon the discipline which we seeke or vpon our desire of the same If you O you holy fathers and ministers of God which haue writetn for defended mayntained with great danger attained vnto this may not cleare our cause by y ◠vn fained fidelitye which you haue shewed to christian Princes yet let your wisedome experience Oh you Princes and Magistrates which haue receiued it honored it tried it beare witnesse vnto the innocēcie of this cause Shal that which hath bin a friend to magistrates when they were enemies to it be enemies to Magistrats when they should be friends vnto it Shal that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth namely That such Seniors were but long ago worne out of vse For which he alleadgeth the sentence of Ambrose before alleadged shal that I say called for of that holye man become traiterous pernitious to the state Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land doing al that alone and more in Church-matters then the seniours hauing with it ciuil power and authority be free from this suspition and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world medling onely as the Apostles with spirituall matters that according to the word of God be void of al surmize of such vilanous practise can their counsels be accounted safe where none come but themselues whō they wil who are deuoted to their honor kingdome ecclesiasticall And shal the ministers consultations be so fit for such practises where so many Elders as he sayth lay men of all degrees may be present where the Magistrates may haue both their eyes their eares Whose decrees in al matters of greatest waight of Excōmunication Election Abdication ending of common controuersies must come vnder the conscience of all men yea whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seene by the Magistrate who may force them to a new course if they doe any thing preiudiciall to the estate The good king Iehoshaphat according to the Word of God and the example of his father Dauid ordeined besides the Priests and Leuites in all Cities the cheefe of Families for the iudgementes of the Lord and for the matters of God besides others appoynted for ciuill matters called the kings matters Now shall wee thinke that hee coulde not see into the matters of a kingdome and the safety thereof aswell as this man The Princes of Iuda at their returne when their state was subiect vnto so many dangers when their Prophets conspired against them yet vphelde the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery to threaten excommunication and seperation from Gods people to the obstinate sinners as wel they thē-selues did confiscation of goodes and ciuill punishment neither were they euer iealous ouer their estate Wherefore seeing we haue such a cloude of witnesses of these tymes and of former both vnder the law and vnder the Gospel we need not feare but their lying irōforhead in charging vs with such traiterous opinions shalbe manifest to all and shall tourne vppon their owne heades For manifestation whereof let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatorie vnto their estate and freedome which they make them beleue that they maintaine First they say the forme and maner of Church gouernment may be altered by the Magistrate then they say the externall gouernment of the Church vnder a Christian Magistrate must be according to the forme of gouernment used in the common-wealth Which is flat contrary to that that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure Which also driueth the Queenes moste excellent maiesty eyther to part her Crowne with some other or else muste make one Archbishop not only of byshops but also ouer Archb. y ◠in the Church there maye be a Monark as wel as in the common-wealth Againe when they say y ◠Archb. is contayned vnder S. Paules Bishop they leaue it not in the Magistrates power to take away his iurisdiction how daungerous so euer it be to her estate Agayne let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into in the Church when expounding the place of the Corinthes of him they make him go after the teacher therfore much more after the Archbi Hauing therfore noted these their open contradictions most absurd opinions preiudicial indeed to her maiesties authority let vs ere we passe from this general what the forme of ecclesiastical gouernment is consider once againe of his assertion and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance containe not cōtradiction repugnance in it selfe and be not highly derogatory to Christ his scriptures His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward gouernment of the Church of Christ by his spirite God working in his children by the Ministers of his writtē reuealed word also touching the essential poynts of the outwarde policy gouernment of the church consisting in the true teaching of the word of God in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution in the aduancement furthering of vertue with the beating downe of sinne and impiety and in keeking the Church in a quiet vnity and good order there is no difference of opinion amongst vs. And a little after we affirm that no such precise exact forme of external gouerment of the Church by discipline as they depaint it out is so much as by any exāple recōmended vnto vs in scripture but much lesse commanded as a continuall platforme for euer to be followed In which assertion omitting the nakednes of it armed with no proofe out of the scripture or any good reason let vs see how it sheweth such grosse ignoraunce as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts for it deleareth that he can not distinguish betweene the cause instrument and meanes of a thing and the thing it selfe betweene gouernment and the essentiall partes of gouernment and the fruits of it For gouerment Ecclesiasticall that is the spirituall administration of Christ by the order and instruments of his Church which he hath ordayned is a different thing from the truth of
and their dutie and of the churches duetye to them Rom. 13. Lastly the Gouernours wee speake of in their gouerment are placed as farre vnder the Pastors and Teachers as they are vnder the Apostles and Prophetes which if they dare say it of y ◠Magistrates they are them-selues become plaine Annabaptists and do cleane ouerthrow the most rightfull soueraigntie of Princes ouer all persons and causes as well Ciuill as Ecclesiasticall A fourth reason is seeing oure Sauiour Christ in setting downe the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery speaketh according to the Jewes for otherwise the Apostles could not haue vnderstood him when he sayde tell the congregation or Churche which was the title then giuen vnto the Ecclesiasticall Senate and his wordes of hauing as a Publican and Heathen doth manifestly prooue he ment to speak according to their custome It must needes be that hee did according to the places afore brought ordayne a Presbytery of Pastors Teachers and Elders like vnto theirs of Priestes Scribes or Teachers of the Law and their Elders which gouerned onely In y ◠fift place y ◠precept of S. James which willeth them to sende for the Elders of the Church when they be weak therby plainly declaring that y ◠Church ought not onely to haue a Pastor and a Doctor whose cheefe attendance must be on reading exhortation and doctrine But also many who ought alwayes to bee ready at the instant calling of diuers and many at once that none in y ◠necessary worke bee neglected it followeth thereby that beside them there ought to be such other elders as may admonish the vnruly comfort the weak minded patient towards all Lastly all those places which say Elders were ordayned Churche by Church that an accusation must not be taken against them vnder two witnesses and such like doe establish these for seeing the wordes are generall to both as haue bene prooued before and no circumstance doth restraine them nay the circumstances vphold y ◠general because in the first place Lukes purpose is to declare howe the Apostles broughte the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-gouernment and in the other the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts Wherfore vnlesse they will ouerthrowe all certayne sense of these places and that notable rule of interpretation that the wordes and sense of places are not to be restrained but vpon repugnance of places or playn circumstaunces of Text they must here vnderstande both sortes of Elders And thus much out of the Scriptures nowe out of the Fathers IGNATIVS AD TRVLL There is no Churche which can stande without her Eldershippe or Councell Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39. If there bee anye that hath committed such a fault that hee bee put away from the partaking of the Praiers of the Church and from all holy affayres or matters there bee presidents certain of the most approued auncientes and Elders Theophilact on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church tell the Gouernours thereof Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complayneth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word suffered this to weare out of the Church or rather of pride whilste they onely would seeme to doe somwhat Nowe all knowe that the Elders which they called Sacerdotes Priestes were not worne out of vse therefore hee may meane this and this sheweth what the Fathers meant And CIPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestlye that it remayned in his time where he sayth Lib. 4. Epi. 22 whē either examining whether al things agreed to them which should be in those who were prepared for the Ecclesiasticall function We gaue it to Optatus we with the Elders Doctors and readers ordain him Teacher of those which heare Which sheweth there were Elders for Gouernment which were not occupied in any publike diuine seruice distinguished not onelye from the Preachers but Readers Ierom also saith The Christian Church also hath her Eldership Ier. 2. lib. in Isa Which when he meneth it of such as the Jewes had it is plain hee meaneth those which we doe as may appeare by his wordes of the Jewes Elders Ad Galas quest decim They chose saith he of the wisest of their company for gouernors which shoulde aswell admonish those that had any corporall pollution to abstaine from the assemblies as to reprooue the breakers of the Sabboth A reply to the variable collections following against the Discipline HItherto we haue had whatsoeuer force he coulde make against the seuerall pointes of Church-gouernment handled before Now because he thoght the stenche of the former dung was not strong ynough to ouercome the sweete sauour which the Worde casteth vppon the Discipline hee hath tumbled together as hee thinketh a great many diuersities and contrarieties drawn from the writinges of those which seeke the Church-discipline whereby he woulde faine fasten vppon it that it is not to bee yeelded vnto because the Authors are not At any accorde or resolution amongst themselues nor yet with other learned men Also vppon hie olde song that these matters are in the liberty of the Church it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity rather then to vse that aright which hath beene once abused that a man shoulde goe aboute to deuise and to laye oute new plat-formes in Church-matters in which of necessitie such difficulties will daylye arise that cannot by anye reache of mans wit bee forecast and will breede not only a continuall toil but also infinite daungerous innonations both in the Church and common-wealth Concerning which slaunderous dealing of his I will first generally speake of it and then make aunswere to his seuerall collections adding vnto euery one of his open contradictions inconueniences of their side not only drawn from the diuersitie of mens iudgement which in the best thinges are through humane infirmity at oddes but such as shew the cheefe defendors to bee at warre with them selues in the points which they mayntayn with the holy doctrin which they must needs confesse Now may it please the Reader in the first place to consider what iniutye this man doth not onelye to the Discipline but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing For by this reasoning of his it shall come to passe that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles because it was ioyned with contrarieties and strifes as of those of the Circumcision with the rest and sometimes with bitternesse and difference betweene the Ministers whilste one woulde haue one that had forsaken the worke go with them another woulde not sometimes tumultes and disorders following the same it might well haue beene refused and east away seeing the Professors were at variance contended and many inconueniences in the reason of man followed their preaching By this meanes the whole religion which is in truth maintained of vs and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans as an vncertain and vngrounded religion because of contrariety between vs in the
woorke vvhich tendeth to no other end but that the truth being found we might al ioin togeather in godly peace an holy vnion to serue him ioifully together froÌ„ generation to generation The reasons which specially did cause this mater to be taken in hand are either in respect of the substaunce of seuerall points in question or of the time wherin they are brought in question For first considering that the question is not as the aunswerer would beare the world in haÌ„d as in publike sermons it is euery day vncharitably vpbraided about trifles things of no vvaight as of variable ceremonies matters of circumstances which yet are to be squared by the sacred Canons of holy Scripture but about matters of no small importance euen of the great and waighty cause of Christes kingdome by vvhat lavves and offices his heritage is to be gouerned protected that is of the whole Discipline of the Church of Christ whether it be to be ordered by the vncertayne and deceiueable waights of humane constitutions or by the infallible Oracles of Gods most holy testimonies And that the aunswerer doth very confidentlye challenge as thogh not only by vs but byal churches reformed in manye writinges verye well knowne he vvere not already aunsvvered that by the worde of God vve vvoulde prooue a certaine gouernement of the Church vnder the time of the Gospell and that this he doth very closlye and colourablie at his pleasure adding to and detracting from the question as in the treatise shall appeare and vvith smooth vvordes and artificial euasions though sometimes vvith more gaule then comelynes and more scoffing then substaunce labouring to cast a myst before the eyes of the Reader and to beare dovvn the cause with svvelling vvordes of vain ostentation And concerning the time seeing that novv by the meanes of the vnaduised stirre vvhich by the reuerende Fathers is made in this Church of England al the faythfull seruauntes of Christe Iesus are in some sort called to beare vvitnesse vnto the truth and that vvithout verye good grounde it vvere not meet that any reasonable thing shoulde be refused of such men as vve be not onely to satisfie the expectation of all men desirous to knovve the truth but also to discharge our dutie to our Lord and Master Iesus Christ and to her gracious maiesty and all her good subiectes vve coulde not keep the pen from paper but vvere as it were inforced to beare this necessary vvitnes to a truth not so much by the reason of man impugned and resisted as by manifest and plaine places of scripture to be approoued and confirmed and for the dayly profite of the Church most behoosefull of euery man to be rightly vnderstood and in euery Congregation vvith all reuerence and diligence to be practised and religiously obserued For what man indovved vvith the feare of God and a reuerent loue of his Prince continually beholding the diligent hand of the seditious papists to waxe stronger and stronger through the stopping of the mouths of the sincere ministers and so many I might say innumerable soules for whome Christe Iesus shed his moste precious bloude to remaine in miserable captiuity and bondage of blindnesse and ignoraunce the very chaine of darknesse and iniquity for lacke of teaching and instruction and these non-residents and blinde guides which in some sort make a pray of God his heritage to bee so cunningly vnder-propped and maintained and so many thinges of so euil nature in themselues so pernicious to the church of God so dangerous to the state of this commoÌ„ wealth so offensiue and burdenous to all people of any conscience and knowledge to be so mightily backed and defended what man I say hearing and seeing the daily and pitiful complaints of the poore people for lack of good pastors and of the reioycings of vvicked euill men in the trouble of the faithfull Ministers to the great dishonour of almighty God and contempt of many most wholsome Lawes by her most excellent Maiesty set foorth and established can be so carelesse and vndutifull as not to applye him-selfe in some sort or other that these great enormities may be detected and remooued Accept therfore gentle reader the godly labours which were employed in setting foorth this little Treatise thinke it not straunge that it commeth foorth so soone or so sodenly but take it as a stay an help vnto thee till some more larger discourse shalbe adueÌ„tured wherin the holy scripture is made the onely iudge of this coÌ„trouersy so much as coÌ„cerneth the reasons of the lavves of this land is nothing at al touched as wel because the purpose of this reply vvas to instruct the coÌ„science by the proper means thervnto ordayned of God as because the shortnes of time could not suffer any more the pen vvhich vvrote this is of an other profession vveigh vvell and examine the reasons here inserted vvith the iust and euen ballaunce of God his holy sanctuary and let thine eye be single in iudging and no doubt but thorovv God his grace though peraduenture the stile may be somevvhat harsh and euery point not so finely adorned with the flovvers of mans eloquence yet the plaine simple euidence of the truth euen in her nakednesse and proper beauty shal so shine and cast her bright beames into thy conscience that if thou reape not so much profite as vvere to be vvished at the least vvyse this cause may receiue more fauourable interpretation and be esteemed as a thing vvorthy of due consideration Thus hoping of the blessing of God tovvardes thee and of thy charitable receiuing of the labours vvhich were enterprised to do thee good I cease anye further to hold thine eyes from the vvorke it selfe moste humbly beseeching God euen the father of our Lord â—esus Christ to be mercifull vnto this land to giue vs speedy and vnfayned repentaunce to turne his plagues from vs to ouerturne and confound the diuilish and blouddy treacheries of all seditious popish and other traiterous vndermyners of the state to plant true and godly loue among vs and to set vp the kingdome of his sonne according to his vvorde to the prosperous continuance of the most honourable and peaceable estate of the Queenes highnes to the reioycing of all faithfull and true hearted subiectes and to the glorie of his moste holye name for euer Amen Faults escaped Page 32. line 12. for Nicodemia read Nicomedia pa. 43. lin 5. for would read should pa. 56. lin 6. for rotted read rotten pa. 80. l. 11. for from read after p. 91. l. 11. for by read of pa. 92. li. 1. after God read doth pa. 120. li. 7. for he read they pa. 105. li. 6. after vpon read vs. pa. 128 line 10. read exercise ceasing pa. 131. li. 20. for commit read commute pa. 133. li. 3. for railing read calling pa. 146. li. 1. for hast read his own heart pag. 157 li. 13. for trueth read fruite ⧠Of the certaine
doe not agree herewith in all circumstaunces or that he will tell vs that something extraordinary was here in this action not to bee followed then must hee shewe by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action which doe not agree in all poyntes with this In the first of the Actes two were presented one is chosen by lot and no imposition of handes heere seuen are chosen the manner not set downe by the multitude and being presented to the Apostles they all appoynt them and lay their handes on them In the 14. of Actes Paule and Barnabas are sayde Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois and to haue fasted but no mention is made of imposion of handes heere all the Apostles did appoynt thē Hous katastesomen In the first to Titus he onely is willed to appoint priestes Hina catasteses presbuterous according as Paule prescribed vnto him Nay let him shewe vnto me any two refourmed Churches of diuers nations iumpe in all circumstaunces heereaboutes or anye one of them which permitteth this action without intermedling of the cheefe Pastours vnto all the Disciples or multitude of beleeuers in the sayde Church which yet haue an interest in hauing a good Minister but as I take it the cheefe swaye and moderating of such actions are in all other refourmed Churches in suche men to whome this trust is especially recommended And hath not likewise for auoyding of sundry inconueniences the whole Churche and Realme of Englande by Parliament whereunto euery man in the eye of the law is saide to haue consented reposed this trust in a fewe chosen men of ecclesiastical functiō Euen M. Beza him selfe concerning the place of the Actes doth say There is no cause why hereof anye man shoulde prescribe anye speciall rule but if the conscience be vpright it will be easie to set downe what is expedient according to the circumstaunces of tyme and places The reply vnto the former words Although the aunswerer in this large and tediouse discourse hath brought no new matter in substance which hath not alreadie beene sufficiently refelled so as no new encounter by publike writing as a supply hath beene made against the same yet shall it not be without fruite to the reader First to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing his contrarietie with him selfe his agreement with the Papistes and then hauing particulerly layd◠open the nakednesse of his seuerall obiections briefly as before to set downe the plaine simple trueth out of the Scripture His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth in that pretending to haue greatlye sifted the wrytinges of this controuersie and to haue exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalfe hee is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth to frame him selfe an vnknowne aduersary that is in steed of ouerthrowing the consent of people in Church-elections to make warre against a meere populer Election not gouerned with the fore-direction of the Elders which hath no ground in the scriptures and was neuer maintained as him selfe confesseth but by Anabaptistes and in steede of manly buckling with the substantiall pointes of Church-election with the foreleading of the Presbytery with the due consent of the people cowardly to betake himself vnto the changeable circumstances of the same as who should present the Elders or the people howe the people shoulde signify their consent by lifting vp their handes or otherwise by themselues or by proctors and diuers such other Which in the particuler answere following shall be declared howe according to the word of God they may vpon diuers circumstances be diuersly carried His contrariety to him felfe is apparant by these three partie-coloured assertions First that the people did chose without the Apostles Secondly they were to choose but the Apostles reserued to themselues the appointing of thē to their office if they shold be found to be such as were described Thirdly that the people presented them to the Apostles censures For that hee sayth they chose without the Apostles is directly contrary to that he sayth they presented them to the Apostles Censures so that their Election was to be disanulled and made none vnlesse by the examination of the Apostles they were founde aunswerable to their description His agreement with the papists and namely with the Romish Remists Testament doth notably appeare in that they appoynting as he doth the fift verse of the 1. of Titus to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister they doe more breefly but as fully and plainly and with more curtesy to the trueth set downe both his assertions reasons and auncient Testimonies in these fewe words following And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before but him selfe also made choyse of the persons no mention being heere made of any other election populer which though it vvere long vsed in the primitiue Church yet for diuers causes and specially for continuall tumults partialities and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time was iustly taken away and other better meanes of their designement appointed See concil Laodic cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists Again how he iumpeth with the spirite of these Jesuites sauing that still they yeelde more to the trueth then he in saying That the Apostles shewed the people what to do without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite may appeare by their words which they vse vpon the like occasion of Peter in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Actes Which Peter saie they did not vpon cōmaundement of Christe written but by suggestion of God his spirit and by vnderstanding of the Scriptures of the old Testamēt to that purpose So far the papists And thus much generallye of his discourse Now of his particuler obiections the first is that he thincketh in no Church the whole number of people to haue free election of their Pastor If by free election he meane the due consent of the people either he speaketh against his knowledge or he knoweth not that he pretendeth seeing their confessions other their writinges and practize do in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter euidently conuince him as may appeare by the quotations in the margent If he meane that the people should beare the whole swaye without the gouernment and direction of the Elders hee misseth the marke whereat hee aymeth Concerning the Queenes Maiesties prerogatiue royall which he would gladly oppone against the cōsent of the people in Church-elections First he could not be ignorant but that all acknowlege that the Christian magistrat as a principal member of y e congregatiō where he is ought to haue an interest in y e election answerable to his place aswel for aduise as consent Secondly the supreme magistrate according to the high authority which God hath committed vnto him ouer all
Churches in his dominions both lawfully may by duety ought not onely to disanull what-soeuer election the Elders and people haue vnlawfully made but also by his ciuil preeminence to compell them to make a newe election according to the Worde of God Which as it is as much as the sole election by the Byshop giueth to the Prince yea or rather more so if they can shew any further thing due vnto the Magistrate all such as with a sincere minde seeke for the reformation of the Church are alwayes as readye with all humblenesse to giue it as they will be willing with singlenesse to shew it To the place of the Councell of Laodicea and Origin let this be the aunswere The meaning of the Councell in those words Non populo concedendum electionem facere c. We ought not to giue leaue to the people to make electioÌ„ is they shold not bear y e whol sway without the gouernment or direction of the Elders and not to shut out the due consent of the people as is manifest by the counselles going afore as shall hereafter appeare against which this counsell woulde not haue decreed vnlesse it had repealed the same or shewed some reason but most of all by Counselles following who haue authorized the consent of the people and namely the 4. of Carthage which was confirmed in the sixt generall Counsell at Trullum together with that of Laodicia which would not haue confirmed contrary decrees The wordes are these When he speaking of the bishop shal be examined in al these and founde fully instructed then let him bee ordayned with the consent Clericorum laicorum of the Clearks lay men As for that of Origin it is nothing to the purpose which hee sayth of the people except there could be some priuiledge shewed that partly the same or such like as daungerous infirmities were not to be founde in a Byshop The next reason maketh as much against the election of Byshops as of the people seeing they may bee hypocrites as well as the people in all mens iudgement one man is sooner carried with ambition couetousnesse then an whole Church of godly Elders and Christian people vnto disorder And if for the contentions striuings of y â— people y e church may abrogate the consent of y e people in Ecclesiastical elections theÌ„ may she by the same authority disanull Synods and Counselles which as often haue beene full of rage and vprores and of which Nazianzen saith He neuer sawe good issue but that thorough merueilous ambition desire of contention thinges out of order were not remedied but made worse Epist 42. ad procopt Neither for this cause as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to bee regarded so ought hee not thus prophanely to reiect it when it is brought to vphold y t consent of y e people Further wher as he saith that Churches both of elder later times haue for that cause abandoned such elections it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proofe of it as hee hath already alleadged which is nothing Whatsoeuer hee can doe the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers and the examples of the elder Churches is farre otherwise For Chrysostome vpon Actes 1. aunswering the Question why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples saith Least the matter should be turned into a brawle and haue fallen to a contention For the elder Churches he cannot be ignoraunt how many haue beene troubled with such inconueniences and yet haue not sought such extream remedies nay the example of good Constantine the Emperour is notable who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian a runnagate and a rayler on the Emperour he did not take awaye the Churches consent but by his Letters according to his duety mooued them to a newe Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19. Againe if these infirmities of the people bee a good reason to take away their libertye in the Election of their Ministers then the contrary vertues which oftentimes haue beene found in them in staying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat 21. 26. Actes 3. 26. in preferring catholique persons before Arrians and in being themselues catholiques when their Byshops haue been heretiques Zozo lib. 7. cap 7. Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintaine their liberty â—till As concerning his questions following which as they declare rather a mind giuen to cauell at that which he cannot by sound reason auoyde so are they easilye aunswered out of the course and proportion of trueth in the Scripture Women not being in the seate of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such publique assemblies and exercise authority ouer men Which rule being spoken of y â— mother doth also barre children and such as shall bee in greater subiection vntill by yeares and Christian knowledge they shall by the iudgement of the Church growe vnto the liberty of Christians in that behalfe and then if they followe the greater and better part their sentence ought to preuaile As for the Question of the Patron seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man let the wise and skilfull lawyers define so they do no iuiury to the holie trueth of GOD and his Church The next Question is vayne and friuolous For first by due authoritye diuers be propounded and the Church consent to haue one of them it must needes bee that hee which is approued of the Elders and hath most voices must receiue the charge seeing that can not be sayde to be done with generall consent which thing the Scripture giueth to Church-elections where the fewest but where the moste directed aright do agree And as for them that be absent sicke or imployde if they haue any thing of waight to signify to the Church the Church is to harken vnto them by whome soeuer they sende their aduise And as it is no reason that when eyther sicknesse or theire duetie to the Church doe withhold them that shoulde abridge that libertie so if by negligence or wilfulnesse they bee absente after competent warning the whole Churche is not to depend vppon them who doe not so much loose as cast awaye theire interest in the election Lastly who seeth not that anye idle brayne may make these and such like demaundes both against the rules in the Scriptures and the obseruation in the primitiue Church Where he sayth that in the sixth of the Actes was not done by anie expresse commaundement of Christe but vppon the mutinye of the Greekes agaynst the Hebrewes as it is to bee graunted that it was an occasion why the people did present so that was no cause of their free consent is manifest by the other places where that is maintained without any particuler cause Actes 1. and Cap. 14. If Actes 6. speake of Deacons onely yet Actes 1. Actes 14. speake of Apostles and Elders and theire election by the consent of the people And if the peoples consent
is not to be shut out in the Deacons which lesse importeth their libertye and saluation much lesse are they to be debarred in their Pastors and Elders vppon whome as Peter sayth the flocke dependeth Where hee sayth the people chose without the Apostles it is shewed already howe his owne wordes checke him and the trueth is plainly to bee seene in the Texte that neyther the people without the Apostles directing them nor the Apostles without the people consenting vnto them made that Election As for shutting out of the Byshops and Church-gouernours it is meruaile why hee shoulde feare it vnlesse iealousy which is fearefull where no feare is hath blinded his eyes That of the Apostles doing without any expresse worde from Christes commaundement is aunswered before in that alleadged concerning the Saboth Cap. 1. and is further manifest by the example of the Apostle Paule who beeing not with the other Apostles yet followed that rule Acts 14. That he saith there is no certaine forme of their Election hee is refuted by his owne wordes following where he sheweth out of the Text their election to haue beene of this sort that vppon the instruction of the Apostles the people in presenting them necessarily therewithall gaue their consent as the Apostles did in accepting them to their ordination As for agreement of all Churches in all circumstances of this point he hath his aunswere before but that he willeth to be shewed what is ordinary and what is extraordinary His aunswere is that the Apostles instructed the people and they consented which is ordinary as appeareth in that it is kept in all Elections of the Church Actes 1. Actes 14. and 2. Cor. 9. 19. but that which was extraordinary was the presentation of the people the special cause whereof him selfe hath declared out of the text In the rest it is straunge that hee requireth reconciliation where there is no repugnaunce but all the places ioyne hande in hande together For y e first in y e election of the Apostle it lay in the liberty of y e church onely to choose some For the Lot beeing the voyce of God was to assigne which of them should bee the Apostle and this circumstance maketh strongly for the trueth which is mayntayned For if where God is to strike the principall stroke yet the peoples consent is to bee taken as farre as may bee howe muche more is the authoritye of the whole Church to be sought for where the Election is onelye to bee done by men as the Apostle speaketh Galat. 1. The obiection of the manner of the election Actes 6. is aunswered before As for the number of 7. who is so simple as not to knowe that the number is to be varied according to the spreade and greatnesse of the Churches where they are and the multitude of causes affayres to be dealt withall As for no imposition of handes in the first and 14. of the Actes it is too simple and scarse tollerable in a catechist seeing such thinges are to be gathered out of other places otherwise one may thinke there were no praiers in the celebrating of the Communion Acts 20. because there is no mention of it in that place which yet were very absurd considering that the order which S. Luke described in the Churche at Hierusalem prooueth that they continued in breaking of bread and praier And if such seely obiections need to bee aunswered as inforcing diuers formes of elections then also wee may proue diuersities of Communions some of the cup and bread together some of the cup alone some of breade alone by Act. 2. Act. 20. 1. Cor. 12. Wher he saith Titus only is willed to appoint priests belike the Jesuites translation was before him when he translated Presbyterous Priestes and that so dazeled his eyes that hee coulde not consider the wordes following that he shoulde do as hee had set him an order which was not to do it without the consent of y e church except Paul would lift vp Titus aboue himselfe Barnabas who chose Elders by voices And if the answerer had bene ignorant of y e vse of y e scripture which oftentimes giueth y ◠action to y e principal directer which yet belongeth to many more as Paule in one place saith Tim. receiued grace by the laying on of his hādes 2. Tim. 6. which in 1. Tim. 4. he declareth to haue beene done by y e laying on of y e handes of the Eldership yet his skil in Logick should haue shewed him y e deceit of this Sophism Titus appointed Elders therefore he appoynted thē without the consent of y e people Of this kind are al the reasons following As al reformed Churches iumpe not in al circumstaunces therefore they shut out the consent of the people In other Churches the Elders of euery congregation haue the chiefe directiō in the electione yet not without the consent of y e people therfore it is fitly according to their example ordered that the Church shoulde once for all gyue vp their interest into one mans handes for the continual election of many Churches The sentence of Maister Beza doth very fitly require an vpright conscience to set down what is expedient according to the circumstance of time and place Which if it had beene found in him at this time and in this matter he would not haue shut his eies against the manifest light of words going before which declare manyfestly that it is a perpetuall and vnchaungeable poynt in Church-elections which neither Church nor magistrate may alter that they be made with the consent of the people His wordes in that place are these Then therefore not in Churches buylded vp must all thinges be committed vnto the suffrages of the multitude neither yet are the Pastours to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church But all thinges are so to be moderated of the Elders and Christian Magistrates that neither they bring in tyrannie into the Church which surely should be done if they shoulde call any vnto publike function of their owne wil neglecting the consent of the multitude neither that the popular state of the Church degenerate into popular rule Neither are these wordes of Beza onely sufficient to shew his corruption but the title of the chap. where he taketh this obiection doth minister sufficient aunswere seeing it declareth that Beza in all that place speaketh not of the consent of the people which he made perpetuall in the chap. before but of the maner how he gaue their voyces which is but a circumstaunce And thus much both generally and particularly for the vnfolding of his vnfit and slender allegations Now followeth a confirmatition of the trueth it selfe which is It is substantiall vnchaungeable in churchelections that they be made by the body of euery Churche the Elders directing the people and them-selues to giue their free consent The reasons of which assertion are these First what soeuer are the wayes of the Apostles in ordinary
both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
that And so hauing seene his watrâ—sh obiections let vs see howe his side being drunk with the thirst of honour doe contrary them selues in one and the same point For when the place of the Ephesians is broght against an Arrchb. as numbring vp all the Ministries of the Word yet leauing out that the aunswere is it is not perfect for Deacons are left out and in the next page that he speaketh onely of the ministers of the word in the place of the Ephesians And again in the place of the 1. Cor. â—2 The Apostle leaueth out EuangelluÌ„s and yet in the next page out of doubt the diuision of the Apostle there is perfect And yet again pag. 317. It is perfect Heere note that to saye It is not perfect it is perfect it is not perfect of one and the same place and in the same respect are euidently contrarie There is no contradiction betweene this which is sayd that Byshops liuings c be turned to maintain the ministery and yet that noble men being Elders haue no maintenaunce of the Church I can finde no such thing in the sixt Art of French discipline if there were their meaning is y t they may not exercize any dominioÌ„ or cheefedome ouer the Deacons Neither is it any disorder if in an Ecclesiasticall Senate and in the church the minister be preferred before his Lorde to conceiue prayer to propound matters For it is not absurd for one to be superiour and inferiour in diuers respectes the Father inferioure to the Sonne which is aboue him in deliuering the Worde The first place out of Simler is not greatly materiall if they choose some elder to moderate though it belong vnto the Pastour yet it prooueth not but that hee is Superiour in opening the Worde vnto them in chose matters which are debated The next though it bee a geeate blemishe and mayme not to haue an Ecclesiasticall Presoyterye yet it inforceth no contradiction seeing that can-not bee the Presbyterye spoken of in the scripture where by his owne interpretation ministers are vnderstoode His conclusion which hee woulde inferre out of the Discipline of Fraunce that because Magistrates are of the consistorie and to be directed by the Pastour therefore they woulde raunge Princes with their Seniours is diuersly vayne For firste it is no reason seeing the Prince may bee subiect to the Ministery of the Pastor and Elders and yet neuer Subiect or inferiour to theire persons Secondlye it is manifest by their conditions that they meant not the supreame Magistrates when they say If one shall not hinder the exercise of the other Which must needes bee in Princes considering theire multitude of affayres In the Booke of the Souldier of Barwicke If their bee any vnreuerent speache we allowe it not yet if anye Prince will doe anye thing without Gods warrant in Church-matters It must not bee obeyed otherwise whatsoeuer is beyonde this wee condemn as vndiscreete In the next that he mighte make the Discipline enemye to Princes hee turneth vp againe that which sober men long agoe haue left and consented vnto The first is that we wold haue the Ecclesiasticall Senate to administer Ecclesiastical matters Would not Jehosephat also haue the Priestes and Leuits to administer the matters of God And what hath he brought of our bookes which is not as fully set down by those reuerent men of God B. lewell M. Nowell Seeing they say as long as the Ministers bee Godly and learned it is necessary they shoulde deside these matters that the Prince is commaunded to haue recourse vnto them in doubtfull matters that it belongeth to the Byshops office to decide of such causes but Christian Princes haue rather to doe with these matters then ignoraunt and wicked Priestes and that in case of necessitye the Prince ought to prouide for conuenient remedye As for his slaunder that we agree with the Papistes to giue Christian Princes power of fact but not of Lawe and authoritye to promote and set forwarde not to intermeddle in causes Ecclesiasticall Wee esteeme it no more then a fowle vntrueth which euery man of iudgement can conuince For if they haue authority in our iudgement by the Worde of GOD to see to their Ministrye and to cause them to make such Lawes as they knowe agreeable to Gods Worde to authorize such and disanull the contrarye cause them to make good when they woulde make yll or orderlye to procure suche as can and will bee present in the action and giue their consent if it please them all which are giuen by T. C. and by vs all vnto the Magystrate then doe wee graunte them no more then power of fact then to promote matters And in speakinge agaynst vs heerein dothe hee not direct him selfe agaynste the verye Lawes and orders of the Churche Which is that the Conuocation-house doe make Ecclesiasticall Lawes and if they bee good the Queene giueth her royall assent and then they must be obeyed if not then that they are no Lawe His seconde poynte whereby hee woulde make vs odious is that wee thinke the Prince maye bee Subiect to Excommunication that is that hee is a Brother Deutr. 17. 15. Math. 18. 15. that hee is not without but within the Churche 1. Corinth 5. 12. 13. If this be daungerous why is it printed and allowed in the famous writinges of Byshope Iewell in that the Priest doth his office when hee excommunicateth and cutteth off a deade member from the body so farre foorth the Prince bee hee neuer so mighty is inferiour to him yea not onely to a Byshoppe but to a simple Priest Why is it suffered which Master Nowell hath written The Prince ought patiently to abyde Excommunication at the Byshoppes handes Why are not the examples of worthy Emperours rased out of the Hystories seeing they haue beene subiect to this censure Why did the reuerend Father B. of L. reckon vp such examples not long since at Paules Crosse The next cauill is not worth the aunswere for they of Fraunce may call whomsoeuer they thinke good to giue them light in any Question and therefore much more professours of Diuinity So is the next for both they and Bullinger may make teaching generally incident to the Pastors office for so it is common both to Pastour and Doctor yet to apply his speciall gift and labour that way maye bee proper to the teacher or Doctor as is prooued in the treatize of that poynte before The Booke of Bertram I haue not neyther is it materiall if hee differ from trueth in some poynt thorough humane infirmity For they them selues say they condemne the errour of those who saye that Children are damned which dye without Baptisme as much as wee and yet is it written of their side that wante of Baptisme is a probable sign of reprobation WheÌ„ as we say it is no sign at al of reiectioÌ„ This opponing of y â— Admonition and Bertram and y
e Church of France is ridiculous For thogh they say that Ministers Elders and Deacons are for Church discipline whereby discipline they mean y e order of y e Church generally yet in the gouernment of the Presbytery they ioyne onely the Elders with the Ministers and to the Deacons they giue nothing but the care for the poore and to giue aduise as the French Churches say is not onely graunted to Deacons but vnto all as â—uâ—re occasion shall serue Concerning the difference of widowes T. C. saith Where the conditions fall out which are set downe in 1. Tim. â— there they ought according to that rule to be established Wherin he agreeth with Daneus and the booke of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes they maye and ought to bee so founde of the Church and are to serue the Church in such seruice as they shall put them to onelye he findeth no one peculier and proper seruice wherevnto they are tyed but are to bee imployed by the Deacons vnder whom they are contayned and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of much lesse contradiction In the next y e question is only of a circumstance how long they shold continue wherein if Berna differ somewhat from vs what is that vnto the matter in hand what hurt to the substaunce of the cause The next obiection doth aunswere it selfe that as they vsed them then in some respects as the Deacon to Catechise and such like which they thought the straightes of the Church draue them vnto â—o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge That the church must he gouerned with the policie which Christ hath ordayned that the offices of elders and Deacons are part of that policie Also y t it is a part of his Gospel is confirmed to be perpetuall to haue such a gouerment in their publike writing to y â— ende As fond is the next out of Daneus which declareth that although the Churches after the Apostles chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetuall yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures which proueth that it is a circumstaunce which may be altered according to the estate of the Church In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnaunt to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall finde it Daneus doth not contrarie him but acknowledging it the order of God doth onely shew what was done in smal churches adioyned to the great and populous there beeing sufficient persons in the one which were not at the first in the other notwithstanding the Apostles ordayned it Church by Church Actes 14. And euery Church muste haue them to send for Jam. 5. and the causes of them which are to be assistaunt to the Pastor to administer the ecclesiastical censures to watch ouer the people and admonishe them are a like euery where Now if the Churches be too little the bodyes of seuerall congregations ought so to be ordred as they may haue all the members which Christ hath set for the perfection and beauty af his body vpon all the wals of Hierusalem there must be watch-men and vpon Euery habitation of mount Syon vppon her meetinges and Congregations there must be this presence of God as a cloude by day and a fire by night For looke what places they can bring for the perpetuity and for the right of euerye Church for a Pastour The same or lyke may be brought for the Elder Whereof it commeth that Ignatius sayde as he is alleadged before No Church can stande without her Eldership And Iustinus made his apologie wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches Wherefore whatsoeuer Daneus graunt was done for a tyme till the Churches might conuenientlye bee brought to a conuenient stature neither beeing too high nor too short and to be beautifull bodyes neyther wanting a member nor hauing one too much that muste not preiudice the institution of Christ which Daneus confesseth When he sayth they must looke to the Church house by house and publikely also to the whole and to the sicke Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath reade of but in one particular Church of two Ecclesiasticall Senates I will then beleeue it when he bringeth vs a more certaine direction then yet hee hath done to finde it and if they did seeing the inconueniences as he sayeth bring it to the right order what preiudise is that to the trueth In the next poynt of counsels there is no contrarietie betweene the admonition and the French Churches order For they say they may definitiuely define causes in a prouintiall Synode although I can not find those wordes by his quotation And the admonition saythe so except there be a generall counsell and they will haue it there For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam to carry it to a generall counsell And I pray are these two so contrary They may ende it and they may ende it except they thinke it better to referre it to a generall counsel In passing from this difference to the next he setteth peremptorilie that it is manyfest that there is no certayne forme of electing Ecclesiasticall officers vsed by the Apostles but reason he sheweth none whereby it maye appeare So that if his Doctorship saye it we muste take it from him as vndoubtedly as if he had it by reuelation For confutation of which folly we may say thus much That seeing in the Ministers examination is to be had of knowledge of doctrine of ripe nesse to expound the Scriptures and in a worde of aptnes to teach it is manyfest that as the gouerning of this action belongeth to the Eldership and is to be done with publike prayers that besides the gouerning Elders there must be ministers who maye be able throughly to iudge and examine to conceiue publike prayer and to deliuer to the Church by doctrine exhortation whatsoeuer is expedient in this case Which thing is euident not onely by the perpetuall reason of it but also by the constant and vnchaungeable practise of the Apostles in the first of the Actes in the sixth of the Acts in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Onely it is to be noted that it is not committed to one no not so much as to ordayne much lesse to elect but the ordination is by the Eldership And Timothy could not carry the matter away but had a charge for his owne part To keepe him-selfe pure and not to communicate with other mens sinnes whatsoeuer other Elders did in this case Now as this order is certayne and vnuariable both in the reason and practise of it so the circumstaunces whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers by a conference only or by a synode sauing where it may be the more the better is left to the disposition of the church Wherefore it is
to conuince any errour And page 3. For the issue ought to haue beene to this effect whether it be simplie vnlawfull that one shold be admitted to minister the Sacramentes which is not sufficiently inabled Orthotomein that is to deuide the Worde of God aright and is also Didacticos Kai elegticos able to teach the truth and conuince errours and to correct sinne to instruct to vertue and good life and to comfort the weake or else whether it be expedient that all the parishes in Englande either not able to susteine such a learned Minister or for the scarsitye of such so wel qualified not able to procure one shoulde be destitute of publique prayer and administration of Sacramentes tyll such a Preacher be procured vnto thē or no And the like page 14. where a little before he hath these wordes If he reply that the Bishop should not then haue made him Minister I reioyne that peraduenture he was none of his making it maye be also that he was fitte for the cure he was appoynted vnto though not so fitte for some other populous Congregation or troublesome people Lastly that if none should be assumed to the ministry but with those especiall indowmentes surely all the learned of all professions in England if they were in the ministery woulde scarce be able thus to supply one tēth part of the parishes Item page 25. Neither are such of them thogh they be no Preachers to bee accounted dumbe and silent who in their Churches do exhort dehort rebuke comfort and also in some degree instruct their parishioners as their ability serueth occasion is offered Which I know they may as profitablye doe as some who of as meane gyfes but of more audacity then they dare take vpon them to expound deuide the Scripture by preaching vppon some text vnto which they in their whole discourse do come iust as neere as Iarmans lippes are sayd to come togeather Page 34. Further if they haue ordayned some of mean ability it hath been in respect of their slender portions of liuing allotted out in moste places for the finding of Ministers which places otherwise should be destitute wholly whereby the people wold be in short tyme become as heathen Painims or be as sauage as the wilde Irish to the great daunger of their soules and hazard of this state Againe page 45. But he is angry also with their bare reading and very peremptorily assureth vs that they shall neuer be instrumentes of the holye Ghoste to woorke fayth in the hearers but he limiteth it with this word ordinarily which he seeketh to establishe by that of Sainct Paule And how shall they heare without a Preacher Truely as it must needes be confessed that the plaine resolution and vnfolding of the Worde in Scripture called Orthotomia the right cutting thereof and the grauing of the due and fitte allotment in season which is perfourmed by discreete and pithie preaching is an ordinarye and the moste excellent meanes to ingender fayth So is it a great errour in diuinitye to thinke that God neuer blesseth the reading or the hearing of his Worde read but extraordinarily for then why is it commaunded that the law of God shoulde be rehearsed continually to our children that we should talke of the commaundementes in oure houses c. That we should meditate therein daye and night that all the daye long our studie should be in his law that we shold search the scriptures Also why was Moses reade in the Synagogues euerye Sabboth day and they of Thessalonica commended for their reading of Scripture conferring it with that they heard shall we saye that so many thousands as in late tyme of persecution were conuerted from idolatry by reading of Scriptures and diuine treatizes obtayned not fayth by ordinarye meanes or that without especiall miracle and by extraordinary working none are saued in this Church of England where the Minister is no publique Preacher and is not the declaring and publishing the Worde in the Mother tongue wherein as Augustine sayeth in those thinges that are playnely set downe is sufficient for fayth and conuersation a kinde of declaration and preaching the Lordes will vnto vs. Page 70. Neither in vaine is preaching spoken off at the firste ordering both to put them in minde what ought to bee their principall indeuour and to giue vs to know that meere laye-men be not inabled to this office so is it not conuenient that a licence to preach be giuen to anye but to such as beeing in some function Ecclesiasticall haue addicted them-selues to serue the Church according to their abilities in all their functions incident to that calling And page 63. and the 4. iniunction addeth here-vnto That if he be lisenced herevnto he shal preach in his owne person at the least euerye quarter of a yeare one Sermon for the which ende the Ordinaries in most places doe requyre of such as be not fitte to be licensed to preach that they procure such dutye to be done by an other which is able to perfourme the same c. Where he asketh whether the meaning of the Parliament were to haue the Bishops Iudge the reading of Homilies to bee preaching it maye bee sayde that reading of Homilies in a strickt signification can not bee accounted preaching yet they serue to edifying and are a kinde of publishing the Lordes will euen as well as a Sermon beeing penned is and vttered foorth to the people Page 121. Truly I wish vnfaynedly that the gifts of Gods spirit were doubled and redoubled vppon all that function yea that all the Lordes people could prophesie Yet can I not without intollerable vnthankfulnes to God great touch of her Maiesties gratious care for the instructing of her people so debase al Ministers abilities which be no Preachers as to say they know not either for what they ought to praye or that the worde of God is the only food to the soul of man Or shal we say that none knoweth any thing nor is able to catechise or to exhort dehort in any resonable measure but he that is a Preacher publikly licēsed seeing it is notorious that euē in the reformed churches of Frāce according to which our men that haue their heades so full of Church-plots would seeme to haue squired out all their frame there be certaine Congregations tollerated where they haue no publike sermons but praiers and certaine exhortations It hath been the hope of al the godlye minded that after the cleare light had shined so gloriously both by zealous preaching and learned writings of many worthy men to the manifest discouery of the vnlawfulnesse of an vnpreaching Ministery so that not onely most of sound religion but also euen the very impugners of this haue after a sort been driuen to an open confession of the same that no man indued with any true care of religion or minding to defend a cause worthy of anye account would once haue aduentured eyther colourably
or plainly directly or indirely with protestatiō or without to defend or any way vphold such a base ministery But seeing it is the righteous iudgement of God vpon all our vnrigteousnesse but especially vppon their sinne who haue admitted tollerated and defended such vnsauory salt that instead of putting them to their right vse which our sauiour sayth is to bee cast on the dung-hill and to bee troden vnder the feet of men they do not only not remoue the stincking snuffe out of the candlesticke to place the bright-shining candle in their roome but also hauing cast downe a third parte of the starres from Heauen vnto the earth doe still by publique writing vnderprop suche crazed and rotted pillers It shall be expedient before the particuler examining of his seueral allegations to let the world see how that while they are strugling with the light of their owne conscience the Lorde as the Apostle sayth hath made their madnesse manifest to all men For when as they should haue bene mooued with the pitifull bowels of our Sauiour Christe who had compassion on the people though they came to his preaching and had their doctors and teachers of the Lawe such as they were in euerye Towne and Uilladge as sheepe scattered without a shepheard they haue made themselues a laughing stocke vnto the prophane but a pitty and heart-bleeding to the godlye by their ridiculous aunsweres open shiftings contradictiōs assertions and by such positions as come nearer to the prophane spirite of the Jesuites then to the holy Doctrine of any old or new writer of whome this question hath beene handled For how vnsauory is it For to decline the sharp stroke of Gods worde hee is faine to turne the rule of the Apost 1. Tim. 3. Which by Councels and Fathers is made an ordinary rule for the examination of those which stande to bee admitted into the ministery into a Platonical Idaea which should neuer be found in any And to shift of the plaine forme of their ordination wherein they are willed to receiue authority to preach the word he sayth that It is not in vain but to instruct vs forsooth that mere lay-men are not inhabled to this office as though ther were no booke to learne that lesson vnlesse the Byshop taught it by giuing authority to ignoraunt men to open their mouthes in preachiuge which after by a straight charge he is faine to sowe vp And lastly to leaue out other which the wise reader maye easilye see going aboute to prooue reading to bee a kinde of preaching he is dryuen to demaunde whether declaring of the Worde in the mother tongue be not a kinde of declaration c. Secondly what open shifts are these to couer the shame of thē who ordained ignoraunt Ministers hee is compelled to aske What if hee made him not or that the Parish were little or poore When in his own conscience he dareth not deny and all the worlde knoweth such are dayly made and as though fewenesse or pouertie deserued a blinde guid that they might both fal into the ditch Againe how simple and naked was that where to excuse the colde exhortatious of the ignorant Ministers he is forced to say that they are as profitable as they who through more audacity take vpō thē to preach come iust as nere the text as Iarmās lips are said to come together as if one to shew y ◠goodnes of y ◠pestilent feuer should alledge y ◠commodities of the plague Also how is this whole discourse at war with it selfe for to defend vnpreaching Ministers he challengeth mē to proue it simply vnlawfull to ordain men ministers of the Worde and Sacramentes which cannot preach when in another place he is driuen to confesse y t they receiue authority to preache to teach thē that they are addicted to the same as a thing incident to their office Which is as much to say Al ministers must receiue authority to preach as a thing incidēt to their calling yet some ministers may be ordained to the ministery of the Word Sacraments only y t is must receiue no authority to preache Nowe what concord ther is betweene him the Iesuites let this comparisō following declare They say vpon 17. vers of 1. Tim. cap. 5. Wee may note that all good Byshops and Priestes of those dayes were not so well able to teach as some others and yet for the ministery of Sacramentes and for Wisdome and Gouernment were not vnmeete to be Byshops and Pastours He sayth that they may bee Ministers of the Word Sacraments though they cannot preache They say Although it be due high commendation in a prelate to be able to teach as the Apostle before noteth yet al cā not haue the like grace therein it is often recompensed by other singuler giftes no lesse necessary He saith y ◠the aptnes to teach is an high eminent Idaea of y e Apostle rather declaring what is requisite in a Minister then what is necessarily required They say some times and countries require more preaching then others He saith vnpreaching Ministers are fitt for small Congregations though not for populous and troublesom people In all which let the reader mark whether the Jesuits be not one step nerer the trueth then he Now although this be bee sufficent to bewray the aunswerers halting yet because a great muster of faint Souldiers is thought to bee a mighty armye till being incountered withall they bee seuerally scattered and put to flight it is necessary to meet euery one of this valiant host hand to hand And first we ouerthrowe his Idaea which serueth for nothing else but to set out the holy Cannons of the Apostle to the laughter of all prophane men by these reasons following 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle inferreth vpon the worthy worke of a Byshop or Ministers office as that which must be in him for y ◠necessity of that work or for the necessary adorning of it the same cannot be such an Idaea 2 But the Apostle hauing saide that hee that desireth a Bishoppes charge desireth a worthy worke thereon concludeth 3 Therefore he must be apt to teach Wherefore seing he sayth Dei einai didacticon y t is he must be apt to teach how dare he say it is onely good and requisit or an Idaea which a Minister cannot attaine vnto for if he can not be so apt to teach as is there required thē it followeth he must not be apt to teach seeing in y e gouernment of y ◠Church a man must not be y ◠he cannot be althogh in the perfection of God his Lawe which was giuen to shew man his sinne and that man could fulfill the same yet in the rules of the church-gouerment it is farre otherwise which are set downe for a direction to the Church in their triall who are fit to such or such offices Secondly if that property of being apt to teache bee an Idaea that is an imagination