neither in plain terms you must be guilty of Imposing and seeking Lordship over your Brethren or something that relates to it which cannot agree with our Principle and that free bottom we seemed to Imbarke together in Now we do most surely believe you can prove neither of the Points above and might here give some reasons for it without taking any further notice of what you write but least you or any should say we evade your Arguments because we cannot Answer them we will consider them first though truly they seem in our Judgment so far from proving any thing to the matter that they appear more Artificial then Genuine more like drawing a Curtain before the work of Imagerie then fairly setting out the truth or like such as have bad Causes of Titles to manage nothing is more dangerous then comming to the Merrit of the Cause or truth in the matter for what a good Cause in this case indeavours in plainness and simplicitie the other endeavours to avoâ—d by Artifice and cunning But to Proceed what you begin with is to clear your selves of Imposition and Formallitie but could you have proved either of the Points there had been no Occasion of this it followes Page the 4 I do not find sayes our Author that you meaning those disatisfied have any just cause to sear in general an infringement on our Christian Liberty Since it has been and is most sincerely declared by the Brethren chiefly concern'd in the good Order and Service of the Church that they have no thought or design of imposing any thing upon the Consciences of Friends or that friends ought to have now any more then at the beginning any other reason or measure of compliance or conformity in matters relating to God then the conviction of the light and Spirit of God in every Conscience but there is this distinction to be considered well of that the matters in difference are not such as require such an exercise and conviction of Conscience as is pleaded because they relate not to Faith or Worship did they require Faith or did they appertain to Worship as if you were obliged to Worship God only in such Place time Gesture Raiment with such words and Forms of speech c. Your Plea and objection were good but this about which your Disatisfaction arises is merely Discipline in Government and not in Worship Formallitie in Order not in Religion it is about Methods of regulating our selves as to the Civil or outpart of the Church as we are a Society c. For instance to keep the Necessitous and reconcile Differences in fine to prevent rebuke and restore disorderly Walkers Ans You see we have quoted you fairly and shall as freely examine it without begging any excuse for in matters of Truth and Justice all carnal consideration is to be set aside on this account then we are to know no Man after the flesh no not that of Fathers or Elders and therefore first take notice all this has nothing in it to prove a necessity for Womens Meeting constantly in the Society as above nor that you under the Notion of Elders have any Power from God or the Society to bring in and inforce upon Us that for which in truth there is no necessity no could you do that you do but trifle and lose time by this discourse but the truth of it is this bespeaks you can prove neither of the Points for you perswade us to follow you in those things not because there is a necessity for them or because you have Power to Impose them upon us but because they are not matter of Conscience whereas if you had Power to bring them in or there was a necessity for them then they must be matter of Conscience and it would be our Duty to obey you for what is Duty is matter of Conscience you know we have been directed and exhorted to walk in the light as God is in the light and that is alwayes but this we cannot do without Conscience and understanding now if we must follow you without understanding and Conscience we are to follow you not in the Light but without it and then that must be in the dark and you know 't is writ they that walk in the dark know not whither they go to be sure if they get not into the Ditch they must be in danger of it But to proceed You tell us that you find no cause for us to fear in the general an infringement of your Christian Liberty c. If this was true in the general yet just cause in a particular case was sufficient for our resentment for once admit of one error and way is made for more you know 't is a Proverb Rome was not built on a day nor did the most degenerate Church become so all at once nay there 's a time ordinarily to grow worse as well as better but your reason as we take it that we need not fear an Infringement on our Christian Liberty is this that the Brethren chiefly concerned in the good Order c. have most sincerely declared they have no thoughts of imposing upon Conscience But pray who are those Brethren what must we suppose at adventure who they are and then conclude they have not only most sincerely declared as above but also that they cannot err or be mistaken But in the first Place if the matter be so purely Civil as you make it why are not those persons you speak of as civilly set forth for otherwise we are to depend on we know not whom and take for truth what we cannot understand and what more blind and Implicite And what other Medium is afforded whilest neither the Brethren are set out nor we allowed Conscience to know what men say is true for take notice there must be a certainty of those things or a liberty of Choice But our Author is one of those chiefly concern'd in the good Order above or he is not if not pray how does he know those he speaks of have most sincerely declared what does he presume they have and we must trust him and what 's this but presumption upon presumption But if he is one of them chiefly concern'd and so may pretend he speaks by experience what demonstration does he give beyond his say so but if we know him and could take his word for himself what security can he give for the rest concerned that they have most sincerely declared as before but suppose they are sincere and in earnest what satisfaction can either he or they give that they are not mistaken in the matter this is neither Impertinent nor Vnnecessary for if we must be led without understanding and Conscience to know the truth of things or be satisfied for our selves we had need to have some satisfaction of the sufficiency of those on whom we are to depend for what blind Man would be willing to be led into a ditch so that tho he cannot see himselfe yet
or raise any above it in the eyes of others but only that confidence in the flesh wherein so many have stuck and miscarried might be wasted and consumed that so the Lord our God might be exalted over all for he that is come is yet to come and as His goings forth hath been from Everlasting they still continue a Riddle to the Rulers and a Mistery to all that is but born after the flesh and what is flesh in a Religious sense but Form the external part of Religion for all that stick here as they are great in the formality of it so such never fail'd to persecute them that 's born after the Spirit because such being dead with Christ to the World and the Rudiments of it have not nor never had that value for outward things which those born after the flesh have yet alwayes brings forth the righteousness of those things It was thus betwixt Israel and the Prophets and betwixt the Jewish Rabbys and our Lord and hath been much after the same manner in the Reformation and is after the like sort now if you could but consider it but for all this we can allow of Elders and that in a good sense for some have been before others in testifying to Gods appearance in our day and have been made instrumental to turn some to righteousness in the hand of the Lord but what then did such find out the Truth by their skill or cunning or the Lord fought them out did such send themselves or the Lord sent such into his Vineyard If the Lord is not all owing to him and cannot you be content with what honour he gives without seeking honour by bearing witness of your selves for the noise you make bears witness you are not satisfied with that honour he gives he that hath the Bride is the Bridegroom and in the best sense you can be but Preparers for him and as you have directed all to him you ought to be willing to present all to him for his increasing must be the decreasing of the Instrument for every true Preparer for Christ does certainly know as he comes to take the Government they must decrease therefore do they constantly throw down their Crowns by affirming that their Service must be fulfilled to every one that comes to know the sufficiency of our Lords Government And cannot you be glad and rejoyce in this If not all is not right yet for all the true Preparers for him as they know this ought to be so they both seek and defire it but such as are so much in the formallitys of Form they cannot because they gather to themselves that is to their own Opinions and Judgments grant that you have Preached to us Spiritual things What then do you desire we should know you after the flesh for that If so all is not yet right if God have made some of you Instrumental to turn some to Righteousness and in that sense may be termed as Fathers do you expect our Obedience as Children But if so consider you are under as great or greater Oligation to us as Children you should neither provoke not require of us what we can not give for Conscience sake for it would be cruel to seek to destroy what you might be Instrumental to beget 't is not a telling of us the cause of Difference is not matter of Conscience whilest we know and do most surely believe otherwise beware what you do for if by your distinctious of what 's Civil and Religious you destroy the tenderness of Conscience or reject such as are Consciencious your Work must suffer loss by the fire which must try your Works as well as others and indeed it seems already kindled the occasion of all this noise is for the saving of what is combustible whereas had you builded nothing but Gold and Silver had you infisted upon nothing but what had been Essentiall to Society and good Order there would have been no occasion of this noise because then there had been no fear or hazzard of loss nay such things would have stood the tryal and com'd through rather purified then hurt But to proceed is it not sufficient for you that we can acknowledg your Seniority as above expressed and can testifie that it was Truth you directed to in the beginning but we must alway be under your Tutorage is it not honour enough for you that we can say that having come to him with our hard Questions whose Fame you spread that we have found the truth of his sujficiency even beyond your report and now being come to him and heard him our selves would you have us back again to depend on you Nay verily rather give us leave frankly to say we believe not now because of your word but because we have heard him our selves whose word is Spirit and life and by what he has done for us we 're sure he only can compleat what remains and if your distinction of greater or lesser things were necessary Page 15 and 16 we find he does not only teach the great things which you seem to grant as our Duty towards God but the lesser things also as our Duty toward Men which you seem to reserve and what is this for but that we might alway remains Pupils that thereby we might be at your Devotion but to be plain if that distinction be needfull we find he teacheth the lesser things first and greater and greater as we are fitted to receive them for 't is impossible we should know the greater and not the less or be faithful in the greater and false in the less for he that performs his Duty to God cannot fail of paying what he owes to his Neighbour and indeed to know this Spiritual Birth by which God can in a peculier sense be truly called Father is needful for every individual Soul otherwise our Title and Interest is surer to this World and the things of it then it is to that which is to come when that and the things of it as it is more excellent so it can only be more sure this being but the Figure and that the Substance give us leave to say then where the sufficiency of Christ the Son of God is known such cannot depend on you nor any Man and they that know not your Service fulfilled by him knowes not yet his sufficiency nor is Christ yet truly formed in them as they ought to know him And truly every one that confesses that Christ is come in Spirit and does not wait and hope to have your Service fulfilled as Instruments they have either taken up a false Rest or yet never came into the true travel And whilst you seem to grant him the greater things and not the less it is because you do not know the greater or at least are not subject to the Government of Christ as you ought to be bear with us for the knowledge of his sufficiency and the necessity for every one â—…w it that professes his
know the latter no more then Israel in the figure did thus there may be a coming a great way in the first part of the work and yet miss in the latter Well then as there is a Servant state and Sons-state the first is preparation and answers to a Legal dispensation or the ministration of Condemnation but the latter being truly election or choice answers to that of the Gospel or Ministration of life the first condemns the sinner the latter the sin now as there must be preparation before there can be choice or Election the first State is absolutely needful but yet as there is a better state there is a necessity to wait for a change of the first to all that comes truly to know the reconcilliation to God through the death of Christ for as we cannot live unto the righteousness of Legal dispensation except we dye unto sin so we cannot know true Sonship except we know a dying to all our righteousness attain'd in the State of Preparation for we must have it before we can part with it In the first State we receive a Talent and except we serve God with all our Strength it cannot rightly be improved therefore must we put to our strength and thus we cooperate with the grace given to make all according to the pattern shewed in the Holy Mount and here we follow Christ in the Regeneration that is in the begitting and quickning to fulfil the work given us to do for we have a work to do and as we do cooperate with the Talent to do that work something of the Man something of the flesh remains therefore must we come in to the Death of Christ which we can never truly know except we first be quickned by him so then quickning is preparation but to come in to the death of Christ in the flesh is the perfecting the Covenant of works you know whilst our Lord was in the Flesh he told his Disciples he had overcome the World but through death the Apostle tells us he destroyed him that had the power of death and as there was two different dispensations then in the restoration of man they still continue and the latter is as contrary to the former as that of our Lord was unto Moses in the first we are Servants and if faithful we are so far from denying a change of dispensation that we daily wait for it that we may give an account of the Improvement of the Tallent for in that stands a change of the dispensation the first State has life and death set before it with a Promise of a reward or Punishment according as the creature is faithful or otherwise and as faithful receive the good from time to time but as we do cooperate with the Tallent this reaches no further then the Covenant of works and as it can not make perfect as to the new and Heavenly Man 't is needful to know what can and that is the true knowledge of the mistery of Christs death in the flesh for that perfectly reconciles unto God by which the one Offering is known that perfects for ever them that are sanctified for there only can the Worker be freely offered up unto God wholly for a burnt Offering as a free Sacrifice and then to die with Christ to the flesh is gain thus is the Death of the Saints pleasant in the eyes of the Lord it being the Sweetest Sacrifice because the more they die the more they live to God this was the State the Apostle so much vallued as he esteemed to know nothing amongst them but Christ and him Crucified and to be made conformable to his Death was his chief desire that if possible he might attain to the resurrection of the dead you see he was so far from limitting the dispensations of God to what he did know as he did not limit or seem to bound them short of attaining to the Resurrection of the dead And of this change of dispensation we have a Figure in Abrams offering up of Isaac God promised him a Son he cooperated with the Promise to bring forth Isaac that being done that there might be a distinction betwixt Work and Grace tho its true if we speak generally all Gods dealing with Man to bring him unto himself is Grace and thus the least measure given to profit with is truly Grace but when we distinguish with respects to the work of God in Man by which the restoration is brought about and reconciliation wrought the latter is termed grace as opposed to that of Works and that this distinction might be clear Abraham must offer up Isaac in whom the Promise stood it was his all and therefore in the offering of him up the Ram the begetter or worker was discover'd behind the Bush who was there before but not seen till now but as soon as seen how gladly did Abram offer up the Ram to God wholly for a burnt Offering O how gladly did Abraham part with the Ram with the Worker and how easily when he saw that was all that was intended in this great tryal and now Isaac is received in the grace in the Second Covenant and now and not before can it only be truly said 't is no more of work least any man should boast no this act excludes the boasting and the boaster for ever and as this throughly reconciles unto God so it perfectly destroyes the enmity that arises about Opinion and Ceremony or about the Formallies of Form on a Religious score the first part of the work shuts out Ishmael the Enemy as an evil doer but the latter act shuts out or destroyes him as a Serpent wherein he keeps up the enmities amongst the several professors of Religion under the shew or likeness of Good and so make Religion which should be the very cause of good will and Peace to be cause of enmity and strife and this deceives poor Man and if we were but Spiritually minded the Scripture would be found to be writ for our Learning and comfort and is as applicable in Spiritual sense now as then in the Letter wherein the Harmony as well as the excellency appears But the chief difference that we find in the dispensations save that those were more outward and these now are more inward is that what was then done in Israel as a people or a Society every particular or individual Men ought to wait to know done in and for himself for Israel in the flesh came through those various states as Figures to Us for Instance they were all in Egypt passed through the Sea received the Law travelled the Wilderness passed Jordan and entred Canaan together but 't is not so now with any Society and seeing no Society on the account of Religion can be in one and the same State together that Society that is the truest Figure of the universal Church of God must take in all those various States that fear God and work Righteousness therefore a right Gospel Church with respect