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A65389 A further discovery of that generation of men called Qvakers by way of reply to an answer of James Nayler to The perfect Pharisee : wherein is more fully layd open their blasphemies, notorious equivocations, lyings, wrestings of the Scripture, raylings and other detestable principles and practices ... / published for the building up of the perseverance of the saints till they come to the end of their faith, even the salvation of their soules. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1654 (1654) Wing W1268; ESTC R27879 78,750 103

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Papists and qu●ke●s about justification This is the old thread bare sh●f●lle of the Papists when they are prest by the Protestants and their justification by workes or inherent holinesse is confuted by Scripture they constantly answer as Nayler doth they deny their being justified by their owne workes which flow from a Princip e o● their owne power but say that the workes by which they are justified are such as flow from grace or the workings of God within their soules They say that by the first Bell. de justif l. 1. c. 19 ne hominem justificare p●sse men cannot be justified but per opera qua ex fide Christi gratiâ fluunt homines justificari by the workes which flow from Christ All this while both Papists and Quakers all●●● justification by inherent holinesse not by the righteousnesse of Christ imputed onely they pretend it is not by their owne power The full confutation of which Pop●sh and Anti-christian Doctrine we have layd downe in the Perfect Pharisee at large pag. 11. and to which Nayler according to his wonted presumptuous confidence answers nothing Position 8. That God and man cannot be wholly reconciled till he brought into the state of the first Adam and able in his owne power to stand perfect Excep 1 Nayler first excepts against this assertion that the Booke shall witnesse against us and sayes mans being able to stand in his owne power was never spoken by him nor thought by him and sayes that though the word be twice repeated to stand in Gods power yet they are not ashamed to wrest it to their owne power c. Reply 1 1. To this we answer that the Booke which he saith shall witnesse against us hath not so much as once the words to stand in Gods power though Nayler say those words are twice repeated for the quaere is in these words Whether God created Man and Woman perfect without sinne and able in his power to have stood if they had not forsaken his power and consented to the wisedome of the Serpent The nature of the power of the first Adam considered 2. From these words We considering the nature of the state of the fi st Adam to which Nayler sayes man must be brought before he be reconciled could not but gather that standing in mens owne power must be the sense of those words Our reason is plaine For That power which Adam had to stand in his state of perfection was given to him as the Prodigals portion into his owne hand but the power that the Saints now are to stand by is a power in the hand of the Lord Iesus given to him as a feoffee in trust for in this lyes the difference of the power in the sons of men in the first and second Adam our standing in the second Adam being by a power and support in the hands and dispose of the Lord Iesus by reason of which it is alone that none can plucke us out of the Fathers hands Ioh. 10. And the standing of the first Adam being by that portion of power which was intrusted in his owne hands without any promise of assistance or perseverance from God So that it is apparent that when Nayler saies Man must be brought into the state of the first Adam before he be reconciled he must meane he must be able to stand in his owne power without any engagement of support from God for tha● was undeniably the state of Adams power Let Nayler shew us a tittle out of Scripture where Adam had any thing of promise or assistance for his standing more then the power he had in his own hands which was his owne power 3. If yet Nayler will shuffle that this is not one of the Doctrines of the Quakers we shall further convincingly cleare it from the very words of George Fox in a Booke entituled To all that would know the way to the Kingdome pag. 10. he profanely and like a perfect Atheist scoffes at the grace of God saying thus And to you that tempt God and say Lord give us a sight of our sins c. this light within you lets you see it so you need not tempt God to give you a sight of your sins Foxes horrible ●eering at the gra●e of God for ye know enough c. and give over tempting of God to give you a sight of your sins And to all yee that say God give us grace and we shall refraine from our sins there yee have got a tempting customary word for the free grace of God hath appeared unto all men c. Hence thou seest Fox most wretchedly asserting these two things 1. That to pray for sight of sinne and for power from sinne is a tempting of God 2. That to pray for light and power for the discovery of sinne and refraining from it are needlesse for so he saith yee need not tempt God to give you a sight of sinne and cease from saying God give us grace for the grace of God hath appeared to all men so that he plainely affirmes that all men have both a light and power also that they need not be beholding to God to give them nor to aske them of him for he addes the reason Why you need not aske it of God for you have a light within you and you know enough c. Begging of l●ght and power the Saints duty What a wretched Principle is this and how c●●trary to plaine Scripture If any man lack Wisedome let him ask● it of God Iames 1.5 where the Apostle bids the poore creature to beg wisedome of God though Fox scoffe at it Open tha● my eyes that I may see Psal 119.18 Give me understanding 〈◊〉 34.31.32 Surely it is meet to be s●●d unto God that which I see not teach thou me 1 Peter 5.10 where Peter prayer the God of all grace m●ke you pe fect stab● sh strengthen settle 〈◊〉 Ephes 3 14.16 for this cause I bow my k●e●s 〈◊〉 the Fathe● 〈◊〉 our Lord Iesus that he would grant you to be strengthned 〈◊〉 might by his spirit Every good and every perfect gif● 〈◊〉 downe from above from the Father of lights Iames 1. ●er 17 Now here you may see the practice of the Sain s and the wickednesse of Foxes profane jeering at the grace of God with sending men to thei● owne light and power in oppositi●● to the grace of God and how all the lyes that Nayler chargeth on us while he denyes this Position doe fully fall up●● his owne head while it is as confiden●ly affe●ted by the g●● 〈◊〉 Master of this Babylonish mystery The second exception is this You that say that Adam 〈◊〉 the state of innocency was under a covenant of workes make it appear● to all that know Adams state that you never knew it for the Law wherein is the covenant of workes was added after c. Reply Adam in innocence under a covenant of vvorkes What we have said at large about Adams being
nothing a command till they judge it so How loose doe they hang in obedience to the Lord Jesus they will obey and not obey as they shall see cause Prayses be to our God that we have discovered them Now we understand the reason why Nayler answered none of our Scriptures we perceive he looked upon them as nothing to him and now we clearely see the meaning of their s●uffling● about the Word of God and their scornefull expressions about the written Word c. So that we can boldly charge them from this place with this horrid blasphemy that the Quakers doe affirme ☜ That the Scriptures have no authority over their consciences at all nor any command in Scripture that was given to others that binds them save what command they have an impulse upon their owne spirits for This is the great strong hold of Satan and the snare with which he entraps them as he will From this Principle of theirs he goes about to prove the law fulnesse of people going naked and reviles us for speaking against it and sayes they doe it by particular command from God Reader thou mayst observe That Nayler denyes not what we wrote about their going naked in Perfect Pharisee pag. 48. the Wife of Edmund Adlington of Kendale going naked though the streets Nov. 21. 1653. We shall adde more because some that have lesse acquaintance with these people may seeme to make question of it On Munday October 28. 1653. there was one Thomas Holme of Kendale went as naked as he was borne through the Market place at Kirby Stephen on the market day at his turning he said Mark that It is not I but God that goeth naked c. and so after a time he went to his clothes which were kept in a Barne by foure men of his Sect. And to shew that this is a fact they justifie and pleade for in stead of mourning for the horrible sin of it Mr. Taylour a great ring-leader of that people came to that Towne the weeke after to seeke Mr. Higginson Minister of that place as he said having a Message to him from the Lord and being there in the Market place he very solemnely pronounced a woe against it for rejecting that Prophet of the Lord which he had sent to doe signes and wonders in it meaning as those that heard him did conceive that beast that went starke naked through the Towne a little before This we have from Mr. Higginson under his owne hand Thomas Castly January 10. 1653. went shamelessely naked as he was borne through the streets at Kendale Edmund Nubyes Wife went through Kendale naked except that she had a shift on and about the latter end of December last she came into the place of meeting of the Church at Kendale in the same posture Another of this Sect came in the same posture into Hutton Chappell at the time of exercise about the beginning of January Elizabeth Levens and Miles Newby went up the streets at Kendale in the same posture This we have attested from Mr. Walker a godly Minister at Kendale under his hand by Letters bearing date Ianuary 31. 1653. But were it needfull to prove it we could by sending into places where these converse fill thee with undeniable evidence hereof but its needlesse because Nayler denyeth it not but labours to justifie them in this sinfull practice As to the manifesting of the wickednesse hereof we shall give thee these considerations 1. No sooner had Adam and Eve fallen and were stripped of their Innocency but they saw themselves shamefully naked Gen 3.10 But God who knowes the working of corruption in the hearts of men after the fall he himselfe cloathed them lost their nakednesse should appeare ver 21. Vnto Adam also and to his Wife did the Lord God make Coats of Skins and cloathed them And doth not this manifest the will of God against going naked would he have cloathed them if he would have had them continue in that nakednesse 2 But that you may yet see further how odious being naked before others is in the sight of God the sad curse that Noah from the mouth of God layd upon Ham the Father of Canaan for not covering his Fathers nakednesse will appeare Gen. 9 22.23.24 c. Ham the Father of Canaan saw the Nakednesse of his Father and told his two Brethren without and Shem and Japhet tooke a garment and layd it upon both their shoulders and went backward and covered the nakednesse of their Fathers and their Faces were backeward and they saw not their Fathers nakednesse And Noah aweke from his Wine and knew what his younger Sonne had done to him and said Cursed be Canaan c. and he said Blessed be the God of Shem anh Canaan shall be his servant c. God shall enlarge Japheth and Canaan shall be his servant c. Where you see Ham is bitterly cursed and the curse entailed to all his Posteri y for that sinne of not covering his Fathers nakednesse And what then shall we thinke of such an expression as Mary Collison a Quaker in Kendale used to these that covered the nakednesse of the Wife of Edmund Adlington in the street at Kendale That they had hindered the worke of the Lord Oh! let them remember the curse of Ham and the blessing of Shem and Iapheth here expressed 3. The Apostle arguing to the care that one Saint ought to have over another doth it by a comparison of them with the body naturall and tells you 1 Cor. 12.23.24 those members of the body which we judge to be losse honourable upon these we bestow more abundant honour and our uncomely parts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See Rom. 1.27 pudenda indecora membra instrumenta excretioni generationi destinata have more abundant comelinesse for our comely parts viz. Face Hands c. have no need marke that the uncomely parts needed yea they are such parts that as the Apostle phraseth it they lacked more abundant honour viz. lest their nakednesse and shame should appeare 4. In the 2. Sam. 10 4. When Han●n the King of Amon had cut off the garments of Davids servants in the middle even to their buttockes c. and sent them away the men were greatly ashamed ver 5. and David in the sense of this Wicked act made warre against the men of Ammon and destroyed them so sensible was David of the wickednesse of this act of discovering the ●ckednesse of his servants 5. 1 Tim. 2.9 The Apostle wills that Women adorne themselves in modest Apparell with shamefastnesse and sobriety And we leave it to the Reader to consider whether either going naked or having nothing but their shift on be any wayes according to the modesty bashfulnesse and sobriety by the Apostle commanded in that place 6. To adde no more we shall conclude with laying before thee the wickednesse of this practice besides that impudence and immodesty even such as nature and ingenuity it selfe obhorres this