A PLEA FOR THE Peoples Fundamentall Liberties and Parliaments Or Eighteen QUESTIONS Questioned Answered Which QUESTIONS were lately propounded by Mr. Jeremy Jves pretending thereby to put the great Question between the Army and their dissenting Brethren in the PARLIAMENT of the Common-wealth of England out of question By Capt. WILLIAM BRAY Luke 3.14 And the Souldiers likewise demanded of him saying And what shall we do And he said unto them Do violence to no man neither accuse any falsly but be content with your wages 1 Cor. 11.16 But if ANY MAN seem to be contentious we have no such Custome neither the Churches of God Entred according to Order LONDON Printed by John Clowes for the Author 1659. To the Reader I Have given my thoughts in answer to these ensuing 18 Questions that so I might give some satisfaction to those doubts that may arise in the minds of divers good men affected to their Countreys Rights and safeties in these times of great anxiety dangers and animosities one towards another and that truth may take place and all may endeavour to understand one the other by a faithful approaching to and asserting their Native Rights and may not be withdrawn from them upon any pretences whatsoever without which standing for their Rights there can be no true ground to expect Justice Love and Unity It is true Calamities in Nations do oftentimes fall out to be best discerned when they are desperate and most incurable But however though the difficultie be great to amend a distracted Nation yet it is all our duties to extend our endeavours to save our Countrey and leave the success to the Almighty and in so doing the discharge of a good Conscience will offord great Comfort whatsoever may fall out in this uncertain and transitory Life W. B. Eighteen Questions propounded by Mr. Jeremy Ives Questioned and Answered by Capt. VVilliam Bray Question I. WHether a Free Parliament ought not by the Lawes and Customes of this Nation to be chosen by the Generall Consent of the People Answer I. It is one of the ancient and known general descriptions of a free PARLIAMENT according to the Laws and Customs of this Nation to be elected by the general and free consent of the People who are not legally made uncapable and when it comes to begin its Session by the Ancient Law Right of the Parliament a PROCLAMATION ought to be made in VVestminster That no man upon pain to loose all that he hath shall during the PARLIAMENT in London VVestminster or the Suburbs weare any privy Coat of Plate or go armed or that Games or other Plaies of men women or children or any other Pastimes or strange news should be used during the Parliament and the Reason thereof was that the High Court of Parliament should not be thereby disturbed nor the Members thereof which are to attend the arduous and urgent business of the Common-wealth withdrawn And it is generally known by those whom it hath pleased God to save alive in our sad intestine warrs That the Parliament often declared themselves to be highly affected and displeased with the nature and manner of the late KING CHARLES his demanding of the Lord Kimbolton and the five Members Mr. Pim John Hampden Denzil Hollis Esqrs. Sir Arthur Haslerig Mr. Strood 5 January 1641 It was then Voted and Declared a high breach of the Rights and Priviledges of Parliament and inconsistent to the Liberty and Freedome thereof and by a Declaration they did declare that the Kings Warlike manner therein was against the Fundamentall LIBERTIES of the People and the RIGHTS of PARLIAMENT And another part of Freedome in the Election of Parliaments is That there ought to be no corrupt dealing to give money c to be elected because it was to poyson the Fountaine it self from whom should proceed no Law contrary but suitable to the Fundamentalls Another principle Maxime and end why Parliaments are to be assembled and sit freely by the Fundamentall and righteous Constitution of England is to redress grievances against corrupt and unjust Judges and great or potent oppressors who have subverted the course of Law and Government and destroyed the Peoples ordinary Legall remedyes And no Parliament ought to be ended whilest any Petition remaineth undiscussed or at least to which a determinate answer is not made as may be seen in the fourth part of the Lord Cooks Institutes treating of the high Court of PARLIAMENT Question II. Whether a Parliament so chosen ought not to doe what they think best for the weale of the Nation that so chooseth them without the interruption of any party upon any pretence whatsoever Answer II. It is the Right of the People for their Parliament to be chosen in full Freedome and have also a free Session after a free Election without interruption of any party yet they are bound as most Incomparable Example of Law Justice and Right to the whole Nation and Executive Ministers whatsoever by the Right unalterable Rule the Fundamentall Lawes and Liberties of the People to do impartiall Justice and Right to every party and not to consider parties but the cause which wholly excludes an Arbitrary Power And therefore upon full debate in full and free Parliament of the 42 Ed. 3. cap. 3. If any Statute shall be made against the Charter of our Liberties it shall be voyd as may be seen by the Lord Cooks Institutes the first part his Commentary upon Littleton Lib. 2. cap. 4. Sest. 108. concerning which I have more fully treated in my late Plea for the Peoples good Old Cause or the Fundamentall Lawes and Libertyes of England asserted proved and acknowledged to be our Right before the Conquest and by above thirty Parliaments and by the Declarations and Convictions of Conscience or publique acknowledgements of the late King Charles and by the Parliament and their Army in their severall and particular streights and differences and in answer to Mr. James Harrington his CXX Politicall Aphorismes sold by Francis Smith at the Elephant and Castle neer Temple-Barr wherein you will as I conceive upon your taking into consideration the Authors which I cite for my judgment cleerly see that Acts or Statutes of Parliament that have been against the common Lawes though upon glorious and specious pretences are called illegall and mischievous Acts of Parliament shaking the Fundamentall Law And at a Grand Committee of the Parliament of the Commonwealth of England for the Government Sept. 14. 1659. It was resolved that the Supreame delegated Power residing in the Peoples Trustees is and ought to be limitted in the exercise thereof by some Fundamentalls not to be dispensed with or subjected to alteration Question III. If any shall say a free Parliament ought not to be so elected and so impowred I demand then how they are a free Parliament in the sense that the People of this Nation according to Law and Custome do understand a free Parliament Answer III. I conceive I have answered this
minstrat impetus Violence doth nothing well Question X. Whether those men that last sate were not rather admitted to serve the present Exigency as the best expedient that then could be thought on rather then out of consciousness to their just Authority as a Free Parliament Answer X. If you and others were ingaged by termes in your Commission to be obedient to such orders and directions as should be given from the men that last sate you had then termed this your tenth Qustion in apt words And for their being admitted to serve a then present exigency I could never find that it was any published end And if it was a secret intention only it was not a mutuall Compact and so could not bind the publiquely invited But by this you do inevitably and Consequentially charge them that invited the Parliament of the Commonwealth of England into possession of their interrupted Session with Hypocrisy as if they did not intend what they publiquely and manifestly pretended And that you may see your Errour and inconsideration by Declaration of the 6th of April 1656. divers Officers of the Army declared a Commemoration of what they had solemnly before declared not without appeales to God And they complained therein that those which had been Enemies to that FAMOUS LONG PARLIAMENT had meetings and grew very insolent to offer affronts and assaults to the friends thereof That the FAMOUS ACTIONS of the Parliament were vilified and evill spoken of And of persons dareing to speak against the Authority of PARLIAMENTS and to call their proceedings and such as acted in obedience to them illegall and unwarrantable so that there was but a step say they expresly between the PUBLICK CAUSE and the FUNERALL thereof And they bewailed their great failings and turnings aside and desired wherein they had backslidden to take shame to themselves The 6th of May after they invited the Members of the Long Parliament from the year 1648 that continued sitting till the 20th of April 1653. And therein they called to mind and declared That the Long Parliament were EMINENT ASSERTORS of the Good Old Cause and had a SPECIALL PRESENCE of GOD with them and were SIGNALLY BLESSED in that work And they did judge it their DUTY to invite the said Members to the Exercise and discharge of the said TRUST And they promised them that they should be ready in their places to yeeld them as they said expresly did become them their UTMOST ASSISTANCE to sit in SAFETIE as will appeare by their publique Declarations not declaring and inviteing them to serve the then present Exigency c as the best expedient c. And if they did not submitt to them as a free Parliament Consider who made them unfree or in any sort of Bondage or Servitude And therefore they themselves that were any Cause or colour of diminution to their just Freedome have no Reason to make it any Argument or ground for any violent violation of their Liberty Question XI VVhether there did not remaine a Force upon them aell the time of the last Session in as much as the greatest part of their Members were secluded Answer XI If the Force did remaine on them all the time of their last Session you accuse the Forcers whom you seem to pretend to clear and justify Consider who forced them or who caused the Force to remaine If the greatest part of the Members were secluded Consider they did not seclude themselves And Albeit it is mans duty in Generall to deny to do that which is malum in se though under a force or terror although in some Cases force may excuse in some measure yet it is no argument that because one force was before acted that therfore another must be done no more then a second sin should be committed to justifie a precedent on And therefore the Querent had been better to have urged this question or tendered this Case and his Reasons in a peaceable humble manner to the Parliament of the Commonwealth from whom he had his Commission in the time of their Session then justify the present Case of the Confusion and interruption Question XII If all Force Fetters and Shekles had been taken of and they had enjoyed the free and accustomed Power and Priviledges of the Parliament of England I demand if ever Sir George Booth and Major Generall Brown c had been voted Traytors Answer XII You enter upon Judgement too farr and before your time for you know not what the Parliament would have done if Force Fetters and Shekles had been taken of if they had enjoyed the Free and accustomed Power and Priviledges of Parliament I think you cannot divine I may say in the judgement of Charity Peradventure they might have entered into a Righteous and equall consideration of things without respect of persons as in the sight of God and man Therefore I suppose that place of Scripture 7 Matt. 1. may be applyed to you in this matter Judge not that ye be not judged And if you have any thing to say to those Gentlemen you name in a legall manner or when the Law is open and hath its legall free indifferent and impartiall Course you may have the Liberty to accuse as they or any Englishman else ought to have the fullest liberty of defence which the Righteous auntient Fundamentall Lawes and Liberties afford And so I who am not privy to their affaires shall close this Answer in defence of our Fundamentall Lawes and Rights with the sentences and wise sayings of the Town Clerk of Ephesus 19 Acts 38 39 40. against the confusion and Uproare raised by Demetrius VVherefore if Demetrius the craftsmen which are with him have a mâ—tter against any man the Law is or indeed ought to be open or the Court dayes kept and there are Deputies let them implade one another But if ye inquire any thing concerning other matters it shall be determined in a Lawful or ordinary Assembly For we are in danger to be called in question for this daies Uproare there being no cause whereby we may give an Account of the Coâ—course Verse 36. Seeing these things cannot be spoken against ye ought to be quiet and to do nothing rashly Quest XIII And whereas it is objected That by an Act made by King Lords and Commons that 40 of them should make a Quorum and that they should not be dissolved till they dissolve themselves and therefore being yet a Quorum they are therefore a Free Parliament I demand VVhether by this Argument those which the Army secluded when they came to Hounsloe-Heath may not as well call themselves a Parliament seeing they were a Quorum and kept their places in the House when the rest went away to the Army and were as truly forced out then as these were afterwards and whether this very Argument would not make them a Parliament if another Interest should prevail to take off that Interruption Again the intent of that Act was not that any 40
in the first and second answers And I do further averr that a Parliament may be free in its election or originall being and operations or exercise and to and in the end of its Session yet they are bounded by the Fundamentall Lawes and Liberties of the Nation and this doth not make them ever the more unfree because the Fundamentall Lawes doth limit the delegated power and hinder them from doing that which is ipso jure ipso facto Illegall in it self viz To destroy the Fundamentall Lawes which is the salus populi suprema lex and according to all which any Statute is to be made And therefore Parliaments I conceive will hardly give you thanks in making their Authority power to be greater then is desireable whereby to induce them to think they have no bounds by which Cogitation they may do Acts that may prove a snare unto them And the people have no reason to thank you for if there be no Fundamentalls and a limitted Delegation in the Supreame Legislative power they might feare some danger to themselves in their Eelection of their Parliamentary Conservators But there being such Righteous Fundamentalls and the peoples Right to have Parliaments every year or oftner if need be the people need not fear Parliaments but have much reason to love their CONSTITUTION Question IV. If it shall be answered in the Affirmative that a free Parliament ought to be so chosen and so impowred as aforesaid I demand as the Nation is now influenced by Priests Lawyers and Cavaliers how the end of the good People can be answered by a Parliament so elected and impowred Answer IV. Although there may be danger in the having a free Parliament considering our late intestine civil Warrs and animosities and so it doth behove those that have been faithfull in the Cause of their Country to seek to save and defend themselves from destruction and Violence and our Enemies might tax us as well as our own hearts condemne us with carelessness and want of common ingenuity if we should not have respect to our just preservation yet consider this hath been the pretence for very many years to avoyde our Rights and it is the only way to continue perpetuall animosities and to manifest that we trust not in the Lord our God at all And besides consider danger is no argument against Right Upon this and the like suitable suggestions of yours the people may be for ever deprived of their Fundamentall and auntient Lawes and Birthrights as they were for a time by that Illegall mischievous Acts of Parliament with a flattering Preamble of 11 H. 7. cap. 3. as that famous Lawyer the Lord Cook calls it in the fourth part of his Institutes The colours to make an Act good or seeme good if colours only can make an Act to be so were as specious as these which you have given or can be made to extend unto to justifie a force or deny or question Right The said Illegal mischievous Act was pretended to be made to avoyde divers mischiefs 1. To the displeasure of Almighty God 2. To the great let of the Common Law 3. The great let of the Wealth of the Land Which were I averr as great or far greater pretences as to tell us of influenced Lawyers Priests and Cavaliers For our Fundamental established Lawes are so excellent and good in themselves that no artificial Rhetorique of influenced Lawyers Priests or Cavaliers your names of distinction or indeed any other Faction as well as they you name could yet ever subvert them or raze them and there may or can be given you a very great Catalogue in convenient season of the force of the Law and the visible displeasure of God and good people in very many Generations past against such influenced persons when by their acquired wit and interest they have done the Nation injury in willful acts and endeavours to subvert the publick Fundamental Lawes And I have read Cassiodor saith Jura publica certissima sunt vitae humanae solatia infirmorum auxilia impiorum fraena The Publick Laws are the most certain Comforts of humane life they are the helps of the weak and the Bridles of the Impious Our Publick Fundamental Laws are the Bulwarks of our Nation in general and of Families and persons in particular and if we can enjoy them we have earthly happiness therein Question V. If ever any Parliament could have answered the ends of the good people I demand whether the last long Parliament were not once the most likely of any that went before them or of any that can be expected to succeed them Answer V. You need not publish a questioning or doubt of the ability of Parliaments to answer the ends of the good people for it doth too much tend to weaken dissolve the peoples love affection to their own Right of Parliaments indeed the long Parliament were most likely in our late times for many Reasons to answer the expectations of the good people because of the Power invested in them by Act of Parliament not to be dissolved unlesse by Act of Parliament or adjourned unless by themselves or their own Order And further because of those high and Eminent Obligations they had upon them of their Faith and Promises and of their Declarations and invitations to the people in the case of the original of the Warr which hath caused much blood shed expense of Treasure And therefore sithence you and others had Commissions from the remainder of them who were a declared refined party by the excellent pretences and by power of some influenceing Officers of the Army your expectations were so much the more liklier and neerer to be answered you in a peacable way of submission obedience rather then a violent way of interruption Unlawfull and determined Violence many times Causes sad and lamentable facts against the Vertues of Justice Temperance Prudence and Fortitude tending only to produce cares and feares innumerable and only to leave place for great trouble and repentance or the severe hand of God Question VI Notwithstanding the great hopes we had of them Considering the good beginnings they made and the faire opportunityes they had to perfect what they had begun I demand whether the most Considerable of the good things they did viz the takeing away Kingship and Peerage and declaring this Nation a free State were not rather the fruits and effects of that force which was put upon them when the Army garbled them then the Votes and Results of a free Parliament Answer VI You take your opportunity to keep the Parliament of the Commonwealth of England out of their Right supposing you are well backed by a great revolt or force But yet you consider they made good beginnings as well as alleadge and averr that they had faire opportunities But whether you do fairly to question whether the most considerable of the good things you cite and mention they did were more the fruits and
effects of a force of the Army then the Votes and Results of a free Parliament I referr to the rational and unbiased seeing no such Result did ever yet proceed from themselves But yet by this method of yours you acknowledge them friends to the Forcers and you lay a ground though I confess unwillingly by what appears to invalid or weaken the Acts as to any thing you declare and esteem as good because the Law of England is a great enemy to unlawful force and violence Maxime paci sunt contraria vis injuria Force and injury are contraries to peace and it signifieth any thing that a man striketh or hurteth withal as the Lord Cook in the first part of his Institutes his Commentaries upon Littleton And you also by this your doubting questioning way passe a censorious Judgment upon their minds and Consciences upon all the intrinsical considerations they moved in their publick affairs and so you make your self and others Examples or Presidents to devise and lay everlasting methods of private discontent or change to this or any future Parliament upon your and their own accusations and Judgment Quest VII VVhether the Parliament did not Act highest against the interest of the good People of this Nation when there was no force at all upon them Answ VII No good man or a man of good and sincere desires will upon due consideration and entring into the Closet of his heart justifie any action in the Parliament against the Interest of the good people before the force was upon them so the good people ought not to do wrong or injustice to those whom they account evil or worse then themselves And it is very possible that any person or persons who remain alive and were in Parliament may see their error in any thing you can justly charge But however Generals are no method of satisfaction or conviction to any person or charges in Law or Equity against any person by a Fundamental Maxime and Rule of Law and Reason And the force being upon them as you confess and the pretended ground of the force used being publickly declared to try whether things were so yea or no if those persons that were the cause and principle Authors of the force had pleased and if there declared aims and zeal had been for good people they had time to manifest themselves by way of integrity to their pretences But whether they did any thing legally in order thereunto I appeal to God and the World I forbear at present to cite particulars Quest VIII Whether there was not a time when the Army and divers others were accounted the great Assertors of their Countreys Liberties when they refused to comply with the Votes of the then Free and uninterrupted Parliament Col. Rainsborough Lieut. Col. John Lilburn Capt. Bray Cornet Joyce Cornet Thomson Mr. Richard Overton Mr. VVilliam VValwin Thomas Prince c. Answ VIII You need not question whether there was a time or not when the Army or others some of whom you are pleased particularly to name were accounted Assertors of their Countries Liberties But you should have told particularly in what they refused to comply with the then Free and uninterrupted Parliament for it is a Maxime in Law and approved Reason Dolosus versatur in generalibus The crafty man lodges and busies himself in generalls they being vain and insignificant And peradventure if they or any of them did not comply it might have appeared adissent in such thing or things as the whole Parliament may be well satisfied in their Non-compliance And I question not but divers of those Non-compliers as you call them continue to the faithful affectionate asserting those principles and malice it self cannot in any lawful way or means blemish their integrity But if you think that it is their temper disposition or judgment to refuse to comply with the Votes of a Free and uninterrupted Parliament I believe you are much mistaken unlesse you take them in this Legal sense that they might be in these times of division and Faction in their peaceable legal judgment and in Conscience contrary to any thing that was particularly against the Fundamental Laws Rights and Liberties of the People And doubtless or peradventure in the same sense they were and have been LAWFUL NON-COMPLYERS WITH THE ARMY ALSO But I suppose you are deceived by your own heart if you think to make your self a legall or warrantable Accuser in this your apt opportunity and blast them if you could with their Non-compliance as a Crime For if in the daies of MONARCHY an ACT of PARLIAMENT against the Fundamental Lawes and Liberties is VOYD and shall be held for an ERROR and called a MISCHIEVOUS ILLEGAL ACT and be comptrolled by the Peoples COMMON-LAWS and LIBERTIES as I conceive I have proved before much more may Votes which are not drawn to an Act and which may be changed or anulled upon clear conviction of Consciente and Reason and understanding in a Parliament it self upon revising or reminding the Fundamental Lawes and Liberties before it comes to be Enacted be consciensciously scrupled or not complyed with without a blemish but rather justified as a LAVVFUL AND COMMENDABLE NON-COMPLIANCE both before God and man Quest IX VVhether there was not as much the hearts and spirits of all People concurring to their interruption in 1653 as ever was to their Election Answ IX I suppose you presume too highly and too far to imagine that the hearts and spirits of all People did concurr to their Interruption as ever to their Election How can it be supposed you should know the hearts and spirits of all people in this matter Surely you have not conversed with all People that were at the Elections They did never tell you their judgment and acquaint you with their hearts and spirits if you made any such inquisition in the matter And if your meaning by the words all the people must be taken for the major part of the people or the major part of the Electors thereby you would have every man take you according to your meaning and not your saying But however this General Charge doth not accuse or concerne any persons with any triumph or concurrence of hearts or Spirits in the Fact but your own and those that did or you know did concurr it cannot reflect upon any other persons For there were many who had been faithful in the publique Cause who received many and great injuries and oppressions by means of the influence and Power of the then General Crumwell c. yet their hearts did not concur in that violent fact in 1653 not only for that unlawful violence is not good in it self but also because of the inevitable ill consequences thereof they foresaw the sad ensuing evils and dangers which took effect and had its suitable course agreeable to the Cause after the year 1653. And so I shall conclude this my Answer with the saying of Charron in his Book of Wisdom Male cunsta