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A90883 Certaine scruples from the army: presented in a dialogue betweene a minister of the new moulded Presbytery, and a souldier of his Excellencies (formerly new-moulded, but now despised) army. Being the substance of severall discourses, of the souldiers with the ministers in divers parts of the kingdom. Wherein the doubtfulnesse of the ministers new old, or old new calling, is manifested, their compelling principle detected: the practise of souldiers, and others, exercising themselves in the Scriptures, for their mutuall edifying, justifyed. / By one of the kingdomes servants, in the army. Pounset, John. 1647 (1647) Wing P3039B; Thomason E390_21; ESTC R201540 20,790 31

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against David because hee hath not sinned against thee and because his workes have been very good to thee wards for he put his life in his hand and slew the Philistims and the Lord wrought a great salvation thou sawest it and didst rejoyce in it Wherefore then wilt thou sin against innocent blood and slay David without a cause 1 Sam. 19.4 5. his answer was as the Lord liveth hee shall not bee slain ver 6. Presb. There is no body goes about to take away your lives or in any wise to hurt you if you will bee juled Sould. Ruled by whom would you have us be ruled by God or by you Presb. By God and by us too for wee will command you nothing but what is the minde of God Sould. But when your prohibitions come in competition with Gods Commands wee must mind his commands and not regard your prohibitions your selves being Judges Presb. That I grant when they doe so Sould. I have already proved that they doe so and your selves prove it for you say none shall preach but those that you appoint and God hee commands all his people to assemble together and not forsake the assembling of their selves together but exhort one another daily while it is called to day And tells us the danger of neglecting it least saith the Apostle any of you should bee hardned by the deceitfullnesse of sin Heb. 10.24.25 and Chap. 3.13 Presb. Who will hinder you but that you may exhort one another Sould. Will not you Presb. No why should wee Sould. Why should you truly I know no reason why you should Presb. No more doe I but you cannot content your selves with exhorting one another but you must be preaching one to another Sould. Can you distinguish between preaching and exhorting taking preaching according to the definition your selfe gave of preaching in the beginning of our discourse Presb. Yes I can for you may exhort your friend as you meet him occasionally but when you preach you meet together on purpose to that end Sould. You must grant both or else as much as in you lies you hinder us of doing our duty which God enjoynes us which is to assemble our selves together as I have already proved Heb. 10.25 Presb. Then we shall have you meet by hundreds together Sould. The more the merrier if it be lawfull and it be the duty of two to meet together to exhort and stir up one another to love and good workes then it is as lawfull and the duty often and so of twenty and so of a hundred if so many can be found but alas there is in many Countries hardly halfe so many to be found in a whole Countrey that looke after Religion any otherwise then the custome of the place is and the fashion of the time be it what it will be neither have they any means of further light having none to preach to them in ten nay in twenty miles about and yet you will be like those to whom Christ pronounceth woe Matth. 23.13 You shut up the kingdome of heaven you will not goe abroad to preach to them your selves nor suffer those that would and so much as in you is you hinder the salvation of men whose perishing will in part therefore be upon your account therefore let me give you one exhortation Repent betime of this into erable wickednesse if peradventure the thoughts of your hearts may be forgiven you tell the people you have beene enemies to their soules and bodies but you will be so no more bid the people of God be constant and frequent in meeting together as their duty bindes them labour to incourage them so much the more by how much you have laboured to discourage them so shal you approve your selves to be of Sauls that out of zeale have persecuted the people of God to become Pauls such as rejoyce that Christ is held out every manner of way yea though it be by Mecanicks whom you now so much despise Presb. If we should doe so then we make every mecanick equall without selves and so as I said at the first our Ministery will bee slighted Sould. You know that the Ministers of Christ must deny themselves in all selfe-ends You are not to minister for your selves but for Christ and if it tend to the honour of Christ and the furtherance of his Kingdome it ought to be your joy as it was Pauls Phil. 1.14 Presb. But we must live of our Ministery and if you be suffered to preach our hearers will follow after you because you preach for nothing and if they begin to see that they can have preaching for nothing they will hold us short enough in our means Sould. All this is but carnall reasoning if you will or dare trust God with your condition he will surely provide for you you using a lawfull meanes viz. using some lawfull way or calling to supply your selves that so with the Apostle you may make the Gospel without charge you see his care was such 2 Thess 3.8 Neither tooke we bread of any man for nought saith he but wee wrought with labour and travell night and day that we might not bee chargeable to any of you 1 Cor. 9.18 What is my reward then verily when I preach the Gospel I make the Gospel without charge that I abuse not my power in the Gospel Acts 20.33 34. I have covered no mans silver nor gold nor apparrell 〈◊〉 yee your selves know that these bands have ministred to my necessities and to those that were with me Yet God provided for Paul notwithstanding he made the Gospel thus without charge Presb. Then you thinke we should doe as the Apostle did Sould. If you be the Ministers of Christ why should you not in case of need Presb. We lave not been brought up to labour with our hands Sould. The more blame for those that brought you up but I beleeve it was Pauls case for be was brought up at the sees of Canaliet neverthelesse when the Lord called him to bee a Preacher of the gospell he could say his hands to work Presb. But wee have worke enough to study Sould. Why is that but because you depend to much upon outward helps and to little upon the teaching of the spirit Pres How doe you know wee depend so much upon the one and so little upon the other Soul Because you must have a time to study Paul could spend much of his time in labouring with his hands Presb. But wee cannot live as Paul did in such a mean condition having families to maintaine Sould. The greater a mans family is the more need hee hath to take paines and if that be too little the spirit of love in the Saints is not so farre lost but that they will supply that which is wanting to him that doth his endeavour Presb. If wee should have but what people would freely give us we should bee poore enough Sould. That is like enough for you never finde in the scripture that the Ministers