inriched themselves in Asia and the other Provinces in that part of Italy which was between the two Rivers before mentioned began to harrangue the People in hopes to perswade them to admit of the right Remedy which was to confirm the Agrarian Law with a Retrospect which although they carried yet the difficulties in the Execution proved so great that it never took effect by reason that the Common People whose Interest it was to have their Lands restored yet having long lived as Clients and Dependents of the great ones chose rather to depend still upon their Patrons than to hazard all for an Imaginary deliverance by which supineness in them they were prevail'd with rather to joyne for the most part with the Oppressors of themselves and their Countrey and to cut the throats of their redeemers than to employ their just resentment against the covetous Violators of their Government and Property So perished the two renowned Gracchi one soon after the other not for any crime but for having endeavoured to preserve and restore their Common-wealth for which if they had lived in times suitable to such an Heroick undertaking and that the vertue of their Ancestors had been yet in any kind remaining they would have merited and enjoyed a Reputation equal to that of Lycurgus or Solon whereas as it happen'd they were sometime after branded with the name of Sedition by certain Wits who prostituted the noble flame of Poetry which before had wont to be employed in magnifying Heroick Actions to flatter the Lust and Ambition of the Roman Tyrants Noble Ven. Sir I approve what you say in all things and in Confirmation of it shall further alledge the two famous Princes of Sparta Agis and Cleomines which I couple together since Plutarch does so These finding the Corruption of their Commonwealth and the Decay of their ancient Vertue to proceed from the neglect and inobservance of their Founders Rules and a breach of that Equality which was first instituted endeavour to restore the Laws of Lycurgus and divide the Territory anew their Victory in the Peloponnesian War and the Riches and Luxury brought into their City by Lisander having long before broken all the Orders of their Common-wealth and destroyed the Proportions of Land allotted to each of the Natural Spartans But the first of these two excellent Patriots perished by Treachery in the beginning of his Enterprize the other began and went on with incomparable Prudence and Resolution but miscarried afterwards by the Iniquity of the times and baseness and wickedness of the People so infalliably true it is That where the Policy is corrupted there must necessarily be also a corruption and depravation of Manners and an utter abolition of all Faith Justice Honour and Morality but I forget my self and intrench upon your Province there is nothing now remains to keep you from the Modern Policies but that you please to shut up this Discourse of the Ancient Governments with saying something of the Corruptions of Aristocracy and Democracy for I believe both of us are satisfied that you have abundantly proved you Assertion and that when we have leisure to examine all the States or Policies that ever were we shall find all their Changes to have turn'd upon this Hinge of Property and that the fixing of that with good lawes in the beginning or first Institution of a state and the holding to those Lawes afterwards is the only way to make a Commonwealth Immortal Eng. Gent. I think you are very right but I shall obey you and do presume to differ from Aristotle in thinking that he has not fitly called those extreams for so I will stile them of Aristocracy and Democracy Corruptions for that they do not proceed from the alteration of Property which is the Vnica corruptio politica For Example I do not find that Oligarchy or Government of a few which is the Extream of an Optimacy ever did arise from a few Mens getting into their hands the Estates of all the rest of the Nobility For had it began so it might have lasted which I never read of any that did I will therefore conclude that they were all Tyrannies for so the Greeks called all Usurpations whether of one or more persons and all those that I ever read of as they came in either by Craft or violence as the Thirty Tyrants of Athens the Fifteen of Thebes and the Decem-viri of Rome though these are first came in lawfully so they were soon driven out and ever were either assassinated or dyed by the Sword of Justice and therefore I shall say no more of them not thinking them worth the name of a Government As for the Extream of Democracy which is Anarchy it is not so for many Commonwealths have lasted for a good time under that Administration if I may so call a State so full of Confusion An Anarchy then is when the People not contented with their Share in the Administration of the Government which is the right of Approving or Disapproving of Lawes of Leagues and of making of War and Peace of Judging in all Causes upon an Appeal to them and chusing all manner of Officers will take upon themselves the Office of the Senate too in manageing Subordinate Matters of State Proposing Lawes Originally and assuming Debate in the Market place making their Orators their Leaders nay not content with this will take upon them to alter all the Orders of the Government when they please as was frequently practised in Athens and in the Modern State of Florence In both these Cities when ever any great person who could lead the People had a mind to alter the Government he call'd them together and made them Vote a Change In Florence they call'd it Chiamar il popolo a Parlamento e ripigliar lo Stato which is summoning the People into the Market-place to resume the Government and did then presently Institute a new one with new Orders new Magistracies and the like Now that which originally causes this Disorder is the admitting in the beginning of a Government or afterwards the meaner sort of People who have no Share in the Territory into an equal part of Ordering the Commonwealth these being less sober less considering and less careful of the Publick Concerns and being commonly the Major part are made the Instruments oft-times of the Ambition of the great ones and very apt to kindle into Faction but notwithstaning all the Confusion which we see under an Anarchy where the wisdom of the better sort is made useless by the fury of the People yet many Cities have subsisted hundreds of years in this condition and have been more considerable and performed greater Actions than ever any Government of equal Extent did except it were a well-regulated Democracy But it is true they ruine in the end and that never by Cowardize or baseness but by too much boldness and temerarious undertakings as both Athens and Florence did The first undertaking the Invasion of Sicily
for the disappointing the Counsels of a Parliament towards reforming Grievances and making provision for the future execution of the Lawes and whenever it is applyed to frustrate those ends it is a violation of Right and infringement of the King's Coronation-Oath in which there is this Clause That he shall Confirmare consuetudines which in the Latine of those times is leges quas vulgus elegerit I know some Criticks who are rather Grammarians than Lawyers have made a distinction between elegerim and elegero and will have it That the King Swears to such Laws as the people shall have chosen and not to those they shall chuse But in my Opinion if that Clause had been intended onely to oblige the King to execute the Laws made already it might have been better exprest by servare consuetudines than by confirmare consuetudines besides that he is by another clause in the same Oath sworn to execute all the Laws But I shall leave this Controversie undecided those who have a desire to see more of it may look into those quarrelling Declarations pro and con about this matter which preceded our unhappy Civil Wars This is certain that there are not to be found any Statutes that have passed without being presented to his Majesty or to some commissioned by him but whether such Addresses were intended for Respect and Honour to His Majesty as the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Lord Mayor of London are brought to him I leave to the Learned to Discourse onely thus much we may affirm That there never were yet any Parliamentary Requests which did highly concern the Publick presented to any King and by him refused but such denials did produce very dismal effects as may be seen in our Histories ancient and late it being certain that both the Barons Wars and our last dismal Combustions proceeded from no other cause than the denial of the Princes then reigning to consent to the desires of the States of the Kingdom and such hath been the wisdom and goodness of our present gracious Prince that in twenty years and somewhat more for which time we have enjoy'd him since his happy Restauration he hath not exercis'd his Negative Voice towards more than one publick Bill and that too was to have continued in force if it had passed into an Act but for six Weeks being for raising the Militia for so long time and as for the private Bills which are matters of meer grace it is unreasonable his Majesty should be refused that Right that every Englishman enjoys which is not to be obliged to dispence his favours but where he pleases But for this point of the Negative Vote it is possible that when we come to Discourse of the Cure of our Political Distemper some of you will propose the clearing and explanation of this matter and of all others which may concern the King's Power and the Peoples Rights Noble Ven. But pray Sir have not the House of Peers a Negative Voice in all Bills how come they not to be obliged to use it for the Publick Good Eng. Gent So they are no doubt and the Commons too but there is a vast difference between a deliberative Vote which the Peers have with their Negative and that in the Crown to blast all without deliberating The Peers are Co-ordinate with the Commons in presenting and hammering of Laws and may send Bills down to them as well as receive any from them excepting in matters wherein the People are to be Taxed and in this our Government imitates the best and most perfect Commonwealths that ever were where the Senate assisted in the making of Laws and by their wisdom and dexterity polisht fil'd and made ready things for the more populous Assemblies and sometimes by their gravity and moderation reduced the People to a Calmer State and by their authority and credit stem'd the Tide and made the Waters quiet giving the People time to come to themselves And therefore if we had no such Peerage now upon the old Constitution yet we should be necessitated to make an artificial Peerage or Senate in stead of it which may assure our present Lords that though their Dependences and Power are gone yet that we cannot be without them and that they have no need to fear an annihilation by our Reformation as they suffered in the late mad times But I shall speak a word of the peoples Rights and then shew how this brave and excellent Government of England came to decay The People by the Fundamental Laws that is by the Constitution of the Government of England have entire freedome in their Lives Properties and their Persons nether of which can in the least suffer but according to the Laws already made or to be made hereafter in Parliament and duly publisht and to prevent any oppression that might happen in the execution of these good Laws which are our Birth-right all Tryals must be by twelve Men of our equals and of our Neighbourhood These in all Civil Causes judge absolutely and decide the matter of Fact upon which the matter of Law depends but if where matter of Law is in question these twelve Men shall refuse to find a special Verdict at the direction of the Court the Judge cannot Controul it but their Verdict must be Recorded But of these matters as also of Demurrers Writs of Errour and Arrests of Judgment c. I have discours'd to this Gentleman who is a Stranger before now neither do's the understanding of the Execution of our Municipal Laws at all belong to this discourse Onely it is to be noted that these Juries or twelve Men in all Trials or Causes which are Criminal have absolute Power both as to matter of Law and Fact except the Party by Demurrer confess the matter of Fact and take it out of their hands And the first question the Officer asks the Foreman when they all come in to deliver their Verdict is this Is he Guilty in manner or form as he is Indicted or not Guilty which shews plainly that they are to Examine and Judge as well whether and how far the Fact committed is Criminal as whether the person charged hath committed that Fact But though by the Corruption of these times the infallible consequences of a broken frame of Government this Office of the Juries and Right of Englishmen have been of late question'd yet it hath been strongly and effectually vindicated by a learned Author of late to whom I refer you for more of this matter I shall say no more of the Rights of the People but this one thing That neither the King nor any by Authority from him hath any the least Power or Jurisdiction over any Englishman but what the Law gives them and that although all Commissions and Writs go out in the King's name yet his Majesty hath no right to Issue out any Writ with advice of his Council or otherwise excepting what come out of his Courts nor to alter
all of them the greatest horrour imaginable to think of doing any thing that may bring this poor Country into those Dangers and Uncertainties which then did threaten our Ruin and the rather for this Consideration that neither the Wisdom of some who were engaged in those Affairs which I must aver to have been very great nor the success of their Contest which ended in an absolute Victory could prevail so as to give this Kingdom any advantage nay not so much as any settlement in Satisfaction and Requital of all the Blood it had lost Mony it had spent and Hazzard it had run A clear Argument why we must totally exclude a Civil War from being any of the Remedies when we come to that point I must add further That as we have as loyal subjects as are any where to be found so we have as gracious and good a Prince I never having yet heard that he did or attempted to do any the least Act of Arbitrary Power in any publick Concern nor did ever take or endeavour to take from any particular person the benefit of the Law And for his only Brother although accidentally he cannot be denyed to be a great motive of the Peoples unquietness all men must acknowledge him to be a most Glorious and Honourable Prince one who has exposed his life several times for the Safety and Glory of this Nation one who pays justly and punctually his Debts and manages his own Fortune discreetly and yet keeps the best Court and Equipage of any Subject in Christendom is Courteous and Affable to all and in fine has nothing in his whole Conduct to be excepted against much less dreaded excepting that he is believed to be of a Religion contrary to the Honour of God and the Safety and interest of this People which gives them just Apprehensions of their Future Condition But of this matter we shall have occasion to Speculate hereafter in the mean time since we have such a Prince and such Subjects we must needs want the ordinary cause of Distrust and Division and therefore must seek higher to find out the Original of this turbulent posture we are in Doct. Truly you had need seek higher or lower to satisfie us for hitherto you have but enforced the Gentleman's Question and made us more admire what the Solution will be Eng. Gent. Gentlemen then I shall delay you no longer The Evil Counsellors the Pensioner-Parliament the Thorow-pac'd Iudges the Flattering Divines the Buisie and Designing Papists the French Counsels are not the Causes of our Misfortunes they are but the Effects as our present Distractions are of one Primary Cause which is the Breach and Ruin of our Government which having been decaying for near two hundred years is in our Age brought so near to Expiration that it lyes agonizing and can no longer perform the Functions of a Political Life nor carry on the work of Ordering and Preserving Mankind So that the Shifts that our Courtiers have within some years used are but so many Tricks or Conclusions which they are trying to hold Life and Soul together a while longer and have played Handy-Dandy with Parliaments and especially with the House of Commons the only part which is now left entire of the old Constitution by Adjourning and Proroguing and Dissolving them contrary to the true meaning of the Law as well in the Reign of our late King as during his Majestics that now is Whereas indeed our Counsellors perceiving the decay of the Foundation as they must if they can see but one Inch into the Politicks ought to have Addrest themselves to the King to call a Parliament the true Physician and to lay open the Distemper there and so have endeavour'd a Cure before it had been too late as I fear it now is I mean the piecing and patching up the Old Government It is true as the Divine Machiavil says That Diseases in Government are like a Marasmus in the Body Natural which is very hard to be discovered whilst it is Curable and after it comes to be easie to discern difficult if not impossible to be Remedy'd yet it is to be supposed that the Counsellors are or ought to be skilful Physicians and to foresee the Seeds of State-Distempers time enough to prevent the Death of the Patient else they ought in Conscience to excuse themselves from that sublime Employment and betake themselves to Callings more suitable to their Capacities So that although for this Reason the Ministers of State here are inexcusable and deserve all the Fury which must one time or other be let loose against them except they shall suddenly fly from the wrath to come by finding out in time and advising the true means of setting themselves to rights yet neither Prince nor People are in the mean time to be blamed for not being able to Conduct things better No more than the Waggoner is to answer for his ill guiding or the Oxon for their ill drawing the Waggon when it is with Age and ill usage broken and the Wheels unserviceable Or the Pilot and Marriners for not weathring out a Storm when the Ship hath sprung a planck And as in the body of Man sometimeâ— the Head and all the Members are in good Order nay the Vital Parts are sound and entire yet if there be a Considerable Putrifaction in the humors much more if the Blood which the Scripture calls the life be Impure and Corrupted the Patient ceases not to be in great Danger and oftentimes dies without some skillful Physician And in the mean time the Head and all the parts suffer and are unquiet full as much as if they were all immediately affected So it is in every respect with the Body Politick or Commonwealth when their Foundations are moulder'd And although in both these Cases the Patients cannot though the Distemper be in their own Bodies know what they ail but are forced to send for some Artist to tell them yet they cease not to be extreamly uneasie and impatient and lay hold oftentimes upon unsuitable Remedies and impute their Malady to wrong and ridiculous Causes As some people do here who think that the growth of Popery is our only Evil and that if we were secure against that our Peace and Settlement were obtain'd and that our Disease needed no other Cure But of this more when we come to the Cure Noble Ven. Against this Discourse certainly we have nothing to reply but must grant that when any Government is decay'd it must be mended or all will Ruine But now we must Request you to declare to us how the Government of England is decay'd and how it comes to be so For I am one of those Unskilful Persons that cannot discern a State Marasmus when the danger is so far off Eng. Gent. Then no man living can for your Government is this day the only School in the World that breeds such Physicians and you are esteemed one of the ablest amongst them And it would be
any Clause in a Writ or add anything to it And if any person shall be so wicked as to do any Injustice to the Life Liberty or Estate of any Englishman by any private command of the Prince the person agrieved or his next of kin if he be assassinated shall have the same remedy against the Offender as he ought to have had by the good Laws of this Land if there had been no such Command given which would be absolutely void and null and understood not to proceed from that Royal and lawful Power which is vested in his Majesty for the Execution of Justice and the protection of his People Doct. Now I see you have done with all the Government of England pray before you proceed to the decay of it let me ask you what you think of the Chancery whether you do not believe it a Solecism in the Politicks to have such a Court amongst a free People what good will Magna Charta the Petition of Right or St. Edwards Laws do us to defend our Property if it must be entirely subjected to the arbitrary disposal of one man whenever any impertinent or petulant person shall put in a Bill against you How inconsistent is this Tribunal with all that hath been said in defence of our rights or can be said Suppose the Prince should in time to come so little respect his own honour and the Interest of his People as to place a covetous or revengeful person in that great Judicatory what remedy have we against the Corruption of Registers who make what Orders they please Or against the whole Hierarchy of Knavish Clerks whilst not only the punishing and reforming misdemeanours depend upon him who may without controul be the most guilty himself but that all the Laws of England stand there arraigned before him and may be condemned when he pleases Is there or ever was there any such Tribunal in the World before in any Countrey Eng. Gent. Doctor I find you have had a Suit in Chancery but I do not intend to contradict or blame your Orthodox Zeal in this point This Court is one of those Buildings that cannot be repaired but must be demolished I could inform you how excellently matters of Equity are Administred in other Countries And this worthy Gentleman could tell you of the Venerable Quaranzia's in his City where the Law as well as the Fact is at the Bar and subject to the Judges and yet no complaint made or grievance suffered but this is not a place for it this is but the superstructure we must settle the foundation first every thing else is as much out of Order as this Trade is gone Suits are endless and nothing amongst us harmonious but all will come right when our Government is mended and never before though our Judges were all Angels this is the primum quaerite when you have this all other things shall be added unto you when that is done neither the Chancery which is grown up to this since our Ancestors time nor the Spiritual Courts nor the Cheats in trade nor any other abuses no not the Gyant Popery itself shall ever be able to stand before a Parliament no more than one of us can live like a Salamander in the fire Noble Ven. Therefore Sir pray let us come now to the decay of your Government that we may come the sooner to the happy restauration Eng. Gent. This harmonious Government of England being founded as has been said upon Property it was impossible it should be shaken so long as Property remain'd where it was placed for if when the ancient Owners the Britains fled into the Mountains and left their Lands to the Invaders who divided them as is above related they had made an Agrarian Law to fix it then our Government and by consequence our Happiness had been for ought we know Immortal for our Constitution as it was really a mixture of the three which are Monarchy Aristocracy and Democracy as has been said so the weight and predominancy remain'd in the Optimacy who possessed nine parts in ten of the Lands And the Prince but about a tenth part In this I count all the Peoples share to the Peers and therefore do not trouble myself to enquire what proportion was allotted to them for that although they had an Hereditary right in their Lands yet it was so clog'd with Tenures and Services that they depended as to publick matters wholly on their Lords who by them could serve the king in his Wars and in time of Peace by leading the people to what they pleased Could keep the Royal Power within its due bounds and also hinder and prevent the people from Invading the Rights of the Crown so that they were the Bulwarks of the Government which in effect was much more an Aristocracy than either a Monarchy or Democracy and in all Governments where Property is mixt the Administration is so too And that part which hath the greater share in the Lands will have it too in the Jurisdiction And so in Commonwealths the Senate or the People have more or less Power as they have more or fewer possessions as was most visible in Rome where in the beginning the Patricii could hardly bring the People to any thing but afterwards when the Asiatick Conquests had inricht the Nobility to that degree that they were able to purchase a great part of the Lands in Italy the People were all their Clients and easily brought even to cut the throats of their Redeemers the Gracchi who had carried a Law for restoring them their Lands But enough of this before I will not trouble myself nor you to search into the particular causes of this change which has been made in the possessions here in England but it is visible that the fortieth part of the Lands which were at the beginning in the hands of the Peers and Church is not there now besides that not only all Villanage is long since abolished but the other Tenures are so altered and qualified that they signifie nothing towards making the Yeomanry depend upon the Lords The consequence is That the natural part of our Government which is Power is by means of Property in the hands of the People whilest the artificial part or the Parchment in which the Form of Government is written remains the same Now Art is a very good servant and help to Nature but very weak and inconsiderable when she opposes her and fights with her it would be a very Impar congressus between Parchment and Power This alone is the cause of all the disorder you heard of and now see in England and of which every man gives a reason according to his own fancy whilest few hit the right cause some impute all to the decay of Trade others to the growth of Popery which are both great Calamities but they are Effects and not Causes And if in private Families there were the same causes there would be the same effects Suppose now you had
not to teach nor will I presume in such a matter to talk all as you have made me do to day for what I have yet to say in the point of Cure is so little that it will look like the Mouse to the Mountain of this days discourse Doct. It is so in all Arts the Corollary is short and in ours particularly Those who write of the several Diseases incident to humane bodies must make long Discourses of the Causes Symptomes Signs and Prognosticks of such Distempers but when they come to treat of the Cure it is dispatched in a few Recipes Eng. Gent. Well Sir for this bout I humbly take my leave of you nay Sir you are not in a condition to use ceremony Doct. Sir I forbid you this door pray retire to stand here is worse than to be in the open air Noble Ven. I obey you both Doct. I shall wait on you in the Evening The THIRD DAY Noble Ven. GEntlemen you are very welcome what you are come both together Doct. I met this Gentleman at the door But methinks we sit looking one upon another as if all of us were afraid to speak Eng. Gent. Do you think we have not reason in such a subject as this is how can any Man without Hesitation presume to be so confident as to deliver his private opinion in a point upon which for almost 200 year for so long our Government has been crazy no Man has ventured and when Parliaments have done any thing towards it there have been Animosities and Breaches and at length Civil Wars Noble Ven. Our work to day is to endeavour to shew how all these troubles may be prevented for the future by taking away the Cause of them which is the want of a good Government and therefore it will not be so much presumption in you as charity to declare your self fully in this matter Eng. Gent. The Cure will follow naturally if you are satisfied in the Disease and in the Cause of the Disease for if you agree that our Government is broken and that it is broken because it was Founded upon Property and that Foundation is now shaken it will be obvious that you must either bring Property back to your old Government and give the King and Lords their Lands again or else you must bring the Government to the Property as it now stands Doct. I am very well satisfied in your Grounds but because this Fundamental truth is little understood amongst our People and that in all conversations men will be offering their opinions of what the Parliament ought to do at their Meeting it will not be amiss to examine some of those Expedients they propose and to see whether some or all of them may not be effectual towards the bringing us to some degree of settlement rather than to venture upon so great a change and alteration as would be necessary to model our Government anew Eng. Gent. Sir I believe there can be no Expedients proposed in Parliament that will not take up as much time and trouble find as much difficulty in passing with the King and Lords and seem as great a change of Government as the true remedy would appear at least I speak as to what I have to propose but however I approve your Method and if you will please to propose any of those things I shall either willingly embrace them or endeavour to shew reason why they will be of little fruit in the settling our State Doct. I will reduce them to two Heads besides the making good Laws for keeping out Arbitrary Power which is always understood the hindering the growth of Popery and consequently the providing against a Popish Successor and then the declaring the Duke of Monmouth's Right to the Crown after it hath been examined and agreed to in Parliament Eng. Gent. As for the making new Laws I hold it absolutely needless those we have already against Arbitrary Power being abundantly sufficient if they might be executed but that being impossible as I shall shew hereafter till some change shall be made I shall postpone this point and for the first of your other two I shall divide and separate the consideration of the growth of Popery from that of the Succession I am sorry that in the prosecution of this Argument I shall be forced to say something that may not be very pleasing to this worthy Gentleman we being necessitated to discourse with prejudice of that Religion which he professes but it shall be with as little ill breeding as I can and altogether without passion or invectives Noble Ven. It would be very hard for me to suspect any thing from you that should be disobliging but pray Sir go on to your Political discourse for I am not so ignorant my self but to know that the conservation of the National Religion be it what it will is assential to the well ordering a State and though in our City the doctrinals are very different from what are professed here yet as to the Government of the State I believe you know that the Pope or his Priests have as little influence upon it as your Clergy have here or in any part of the World Eng. Gent. I avow it fully Sir and with the favour you give will proceed It cannot be denyed but that in former times Popery has been very innocent here to the Government and that the Clergy and the Pope were so far from opposing our Liberties that they both sided with the Barons to get a declaration of them by means of Magna Charta It is true also that if we were all Papists and that our State were the same both as to Property and Empire as it was 400 years ago there would be but one inconvenience to have that Religion National again in England which is That the Clergy quatenus such had and will have a share in the Soveraignty and inferiour Courts in their own Power called Ecclesiastical this is and ever will be a Solecism in Government besides a manifest contradiction to the words of Christ our Saviour who tells us his Kingdom is not of this World and the truth is if you look into the Scriptures you will find that the Apostles did not reckon that the Religion they planted should be National in any Country and therefore have given no precepts to the Magistrate to meddle in matters of Faith and the Worship of God but Preach'd That Christians should yield them obedience in all lawfull things There are many passages in Holy Writ which plainly declare that the true Believers and Saints should be but a handful and such as God had separated and as it were taken out of the World which would not have been said by them if they had believed that whole Nations and People should have been true Followers of Christ and of his Flock for certainly none of them are to be damn'd and yet Christ himself tells us that few are saved and bids us strive to get in at the strait