vnderstand not neyther the composition nor the vertue of the things wherof it is made nor yet the effectes therof And where you say that PhisitioÌ„s ought to be punished as mankyllers you are therefore worthy of great reprehension to presume that they of mallice would kyll any ne yet through ignorance they caÌ„not do it But for their straight examinatioÌ„ I doo not mistike but rather holde it for a thing conuenient notwithstanding the Phisition vsing well his office in the obseruing of Rule Arte and the Patient should happen to die he ought not to be punished for his death And of the same opinion was Plato appearing in the ninth Dialogue of his Lawes And also where Phisitions procure to be payde for theyr paynes they ought not therfore to be reprehended sithens that by the Law of God and man the laborer ought to haue his hyre God also coÌ„mauÌ„deth that the Oxe that freadeth out the Corne be not mustod Moreouer I may say that of too much sharpnes of wytte nay rather of mallice wher you presume that of industry they darcken their Arte with strauÌ„ge names of things for why if you vnderstoode them you would say that those names which seemed vnto you straunge opinion And before I had heard him speake I was not so great an enemy of Phisitions as now I am But whether I haue reason or no by mine aunswere ye shall heare Fyrst I say you haue well vnderstoode my desire wherein I would haue no office of Phisitions in a common weale at the least such as should cure for money But that we should one counsell cure an other And also we shall know vse such remedies which are already knowen prooued by auncient men of experience and to stick vnto the same If this thing might so be although there were some inconueniences yet truly they should be much lesse theÌ„ those which procéede from the good and euyll Phisitions By meanes of theyr purges repurges bléedings and rebleedings yea and you should haue as small a diffyculty therin if determynatly we should begyn to dyspute as to speake one language and to haue one custome which are auncient in our Countrey yea and the great vse of olde tyme should be as easy to cure the diseased as in these our dayes So that héere is proofe and argument to sée that for the one part of medicine which according to theyr owne opinion is the principall which they call â—suall that is to say to know of what the Patient ought to féede howe what it should be more or lesse the experience vse and couÌ„sell which they haue among them selues and now so commoÌ„ to men wherby without either counsell or receypt of the Phisition men know what to eate how in what quantitie And such rule wisemen dare vse and obserue I speak not of such who will voluntarily be disordred Why alas if in this which is the chéefest poynt we can lyue without tutors why should we not then bring to passe y e vse of curing should be as well knowen among vs for why the difficulty or peryl should be no greater as I will shew after that I haue made aunswer to your argument And therfore will I chauÌ„ge the forme of aunswering because we are contrary in opinion You meane to defend the Phisitions of tyme present saying that Christe our redéemer dyd compare himselfe to Phisitions and that truly is as much as to defend the cruelty of the Lyons because they are also called Lyons Besydes this your argument is verie weake because your coÌ„parison of Christ to a Phisition dooth not so well fit your purpose So that I say you may make them more perticuler yet you shall sée y e Christe dooth rather approoue my opinioÌ„ then yours for he dyd not appoynt amoÌ„g his Disciples one nor two to heale and cure but generally commauÌ„ded them all vnto whome he gaue especiall grace to cure and make whole as you your selfe affyrme so that this allegation maketh for me And where you speake of the Angell Raphaell and S. Paule truly those holy Persons sent not the sicke folke to the Phisitions of the Cittie to be cured but rather they themselues tooke y e cure in hand béeing none of that vocatioÌ„ and how I pray you iwis not with Purgations nor blood letting nor with your Diacatulicions nor Skamonea but the one with a lyttle Wine whereof he had experience the other with the vertue of a Fishe which God gaue him for that purpose And therefore Maister mine sithens that this Office is coÌ„mon to Angelles and to men it is not iust that two or thrée should ingrate the same lyke tyrants in the Towne because forsoothe they are learned men as you say as I would to God they were But if they be in good time be it for I say not that learning hurteth any But I say that for the vse of curing it is not néedefull for I holde not such thinges necessary but only for the knowledge of cléere and euident thinges For why it is not greatly materiall to knowe the first and secrete origen of a disease but rather to knowe what dooth helpe But the inquisition and intelligence of secrete and hydden causes and the knowledge of their naturall operations and y e rest which you say is necessary to be knowen I holde for a vaine thing and also impossible For besides that the secrets of nature are incomprehensible it is playne that this is so for why those that presume to know this matter are Phisitions and Philosophers who are diuers and contrary in theyr opinions and can giue no certayne rule nor resolution For how would you that the Phisition should know the radicall cause and first origen of all infirmyties theyr opinions béeing so variable as you your selfe haue declared And why should I more beléeue Hipocrates who affyrmeth the substaunce of the matter to be in the spirites then Erasistratus who attrybuteth it to the turning backward of the blood to the arteries And why should I credite more these then others who assygned other prynciples And howe will you knowe how disguestion is made in the stomack Truly I for my part dare no more credite the one then the other Séeing there are so many opinions vpon the case for some say y t the foode boyleth with heate others say that it rotteth by way of attrycion grynding others denieth them bothe each giueth such reasoÌ„s as séeme true so y t following the opinion of any of them the cure shalbe perticuler cleane contrary the one to the other So that séeing the causes origen so diffycult y e certeynty séemeth vnpossible I sée no cause for a man to weary himself therin But only to coÌ„tent and serue our selues with the remedy that experience hath taught vs. And coÌ„sidering that it importeth not to know what caused the infirmity but only the way to cure the same Nor yet I will not trouble my selfe to know how
disgestiō is made but chéefly to know what meate is soonest disgested what is good to helpe the same Without vering my selfe to knowe the cause why nor yet I passe not to knowe what is the cause of shortnes of breath but rather y e way to remedy it without payne I will neyther know who mooueth nor how the artyres mooue but only vnderstand what signifieth the disordered moouing And also it maketh not for your purpose that you alleadge for new diseases that may happen for when any such thing doo happen he that cureth ought not to imagine what y e origen was séeing that of cōmon things he is ignorant as before I haue declared For it is sufficient to consider how the lyke infirmity hath bene cured without medicine and so by experience we may hyt on the certeynty As for example the disease of the Poxe how ignorant were Phisitions in the cure as long as they went by Sciēce Arte But after experience had taught vs y e vse of the wood called Lignum Vite or Lignū Sanctum How notoriouslie were the diseases cured without the knowledge of the origen of the disease nor yet the cause why the sayd medicine dooth helpe It séemeth also vnto you a necessarye thing the Anathomy of dead bodyes and in my iudgement it is a thing of small effect yea I rather holde it for a kinde of crueltie For true it is in such an Anathomy there remayneth neyther the proper cullor softnes or hardnes or any other liuely thing which you say was in the members of the dead and wounded bodyes which are abyding in the lyue sound bodyes for if there be in a whole and liuely man colde feare wearines or any other meane affect or alteration which make exterior notorious chaūges in the cullor and posture of the face it is much more lyke the interior members which are more delycate to change and alter with a straunge ayre And truly I holde it for a méere madnes to beléeue that the Armony and consert which is in y e liue body of a man is to be found in one that lyeth a dying or is already dead Now if the Anathomy were of any effect or coulde giue any lyght for the health of man there dayly chaunceth men to be slayne in the warres and by other mischaunces where without crueltie but rather to cure theyr woundes they might make experience without the spoyling and breaking vp of mannes fleshe by him that hath professed rather to heale it And where you say that such men experimented are Fallares because they chaunge with age and tyme I say that experience found out those chaūges and not Arte so that to experience all is due and by the same all is obtayned Moreouer the aunsweres which you make to my reasons are so weake that they néede no reply at all And where you say that Phisitions are not the cause of vices and diseases because they counsell none to distemper them selues but rather cure theyr hurte receyued by distemperance But I say because some men haue such confidence in them they encorrage them selues to be gluttons and dysordered persons yea and some tymes they giue them such counsell But sithens that Signor Maister is héere present marke what Saint Ambrose sayth vpon the. Cviij Psalme which is The preceptes of Medicine are contrarie to the diuine counselles because they forbyd fasting and permit no Uigilles yea they will compell men in such sort that he who giueth himselfe there vnto shall vtterly deny himselfe And where againe you would defend Phisitions from punishment by the Lawes of Plato I aunswere that it is first néedefull that you bring the approbation of those Lawes from the Emperour for without that your Lawes are of small effect but although they were Plato dooth not salue but onely hée that cureth well by whome if any mischance happen he is faultlesse But I spake vnto you onely of such as knowe not what they doo which is the cause that they erre in that which they take in hand and where there is on the earth no punishment for such I beseeche God to chasten them for it is a hard case that only Phisitions are neuer ignorant of any thing But if you goe to an Aduocate or Counsellor in the Law with any hard question he will aunswer that be will study the cause If you goe to a Diuine he will oftentimes make theyr aunswere and so will men of other faculties But the Phisition wyll incontinent make aunswer to a thousand diseased solke if they demaund any thing Yea they iudge it a lesser faulte to erre then to confesse that they know not Likewise their errors and euill successe they will not let to lay on some body eyther the disorder of the Patient or the mallice of the humor and whether I say true or no I put you for witnesse And where you say that I vnderstand not y e properties vertues of medicines cōpounds I aunswer that you say true and I affirme the same say that neyther the Phisitions nor yet their Auicena vnderstood them nor yet is it possible to vnderstand the Armony and temper of 300. thinges together and therefore they are abhominable And for my part I will yéelde no thankes for the inuencion of them as you commaund Neyther yet holde I for profitable the Muske Siuit and Amber although they are of delectable swéetnes in Odor for we might wel be without them for they profit not so much the health of the body but in as many tymes they are hurtfull to the soule And sithens you are so wholy iudging that those names darke receypts are not made by industry mallice I pray you be a meane héereafter to kéepe me from occasiō of sinne to induce them to Phisitions to make theyr receyptes with a fayre plaine letter in our language then I will iudge as you doo So that now Signor Bernardo séeing that your argumentes and aunsweres vnto mine are of no efficacie or strength you ought to put them cleane from your opinion and that you disturbe not medicine to be commonly knowen and let vs not permytte to be subiect to two or thrée Wherof Plinie complayneth because we will not knowe what is good for vs and so we goe vpon other mens séete we eat with other mens appetite whervpon our lyfe and health is an arbitrement Be not so curious in this matter as to spend in learning to study in the Uniuersitie all your lyfe tyme by meane of which paynes you may gette more disease then by your study you might learn to cure So to conclude it is sufficient what I haue sayde to approoue that Experience dyet good regiment sufficeth principally for our health Therefore let vs not séeke rationall experience but embrace the experimentall And thinke not that medicine was found before reason for the good Husbandman and the Marriner by vse and practise came to be Maisters and not by study
by your authoritie and eloquence Bernardo I for my part doo holde myselfe satisfied and doo consent in the determination of Signor Maister and I thinke Signor Iasper will doo the like and so we may depart as we came Iasper I cannot chuse but kéepe silence to the thing that Signor Maister hath sayd and the same ought to be moste certaine sithence he hath so pronounced but yet in my iudgement I thinke it not conuenient to cure with Phisitions but rather take diet and good Regiment to be sufficient yea and I haue heard them their selues say that to cure therewith is a moste happy cure so that still I will follow experience and counsell and you not able to condemne me and for the other matters let them passe in good time as Signor Maister hath declared and so we may depart and God giue vnto your Worship entire health that you neuer néede any Phisition but onely that you may dye of age Don Nunio Patience is good for aduersytie but yet I wyll not that ye depart vntill Signor Maister hath tolde his tale touching the Phisitions of Ferrara And with his tale Disputation shall ceasse for this day for it is not late and time there is for all Maister Velasques Because Signor Iasper shall pacifie his anger I will recite the tale although he hath read the same as well as I the History is That on a time Nicholaus Marquesse of Ferrara sporting and iesting with his Iester he enquired of him of what Science or occupation were most number in Ferrara the Iester aunswered saying sir the moste in number of any one trade are Phisitions the Marquesse hearing this aunswer laughed him to scorn saying thou idiot séest y u not that of y t facultie there is not in the Citty aboue fiue or sire and I am sure there is aboue 300. Shoomakers and as many of many other Occupacions The Iester aunswered sir where your Lordship is occupied in great matters you haue no particuler recknings nor yet you know what nomber of Massailes you haue but beléeue me sir I haue told you troth y t of the Art of medecin is the greatest nūber in Ferrara and I dare lay 200. Ducats that you shall finde it so The Marquesse began to laugh againe and to deny his opinion and in conclusion the wager was layde although he iudged it for simplicity and madnes and so he soone forgot what he had layd But the Iester who had great desire of the money that was laide hauing well considered the matter The next day in the morning he arose being Sonday and wrapped clouts about his head Towe and Wooll bounde to his chéekes fayning that he was wonderfully vexed with the tootheache and in this order he sate him downe at the doore of the Cathedrall Church of the Cittie and had sitting by him a boy who was his sonne that had good skill in writing this lad had his Pen Inkehorne and Paper now the Iester being a man so commonly knowen in the Cittie the people that entered and came out of the Church asked of him the cause of his sicknes and he made aunswer to euery one that he had a maruelous paine in his téeth and Gummes desiring them for Gods sake to giue him some remedy for the same and where we generally vse to giue coūsel to those whom we sée suffer any pain as many as passed by tolde him what to take although some one thing and some another So that his boye foorth with wrote euery mans name that had giuen any remedy and hauing abode there the time conuenient and his copie of names and medcines full and in the pickle that he sate at the Church dore he went to the Marquesse Pallace who had cleane forgottē his wager as the Marquesse espied him he as other had doone enquired the cause of his greefe and being answered as the others were he of gentlenes tolde him of remedy wherewith he should be whole The Iester sayde sir kisse your Honours handes and after a while that he had abode there he went his way home to his house and caused all his processe to be writtē fayre which amounted to néere 500. persons who were all Phisitions and the Lord Marquis was placed for the first and principallist in the copie and euery mans medecine ioyned with his name the next day he came to y e Lord Marquesse Pallace without his rags about his head as a whole man saying right Honourable sir now I am whole and I thanke God cured by the moste honourablest Phisition of all Italy which is you for with your good counsell I obtained my health Therfore I pray you commaund to pay the wager for assuredly for my disease I founde all these Phisitions in Ferrara that are here contayned in this memoriall and if I would haue fought for more iwis I had found more The Marquesse beholding the roule of names and medecines and séeing himselfe the first man and many other principall persons of the Cittye he laughed and confessed that he had lost his wager and commaūded the same to be payde foorth with which truely was a merry iest So that if Signor Iasper be contented with suche Phisitions I say he hath reason and shall finde aboundaunce Don Nunio By my trothe the tale is pretie and to be laughed at with reason I wyll therefore stay you no longer depart on Gods name Iasper The Iester was pleasaunt but I promise you on my faith that if he had the tootheache in déede he mought haue béen cured with the counsels giuen vnto him And I would rather trust the 500. Phisitions contained in the memoriall then the fiue or sixe which the Lord Marquesse spake of And with this conclusion Signor Bernardo let vs depart for although we haue béene earnest in our Disputation yet we wyll depart as good fréendes as we came hether FINIS T. N. Entrance of the gentlemen A pretie example A pretie conclusion
Hipocrates thought Yea and also otherwise if it be as Erasistratus iudged y t the blood turning backwardes to the arteries or veynes of the spirits cause inflamation and the inflamatioÌ„ causeth the moouing which we sée in the Feuer So that he shall knowe how to cure which reacheth to the originall true cause And therfore you may consider whether Arte and study of Philosophy be requisite or no so that of necessity the causes of infirmities ought to be knowen And also to vnderstand the quality and property of mettals stones trées fruites hearbs rootes and also of beasts and all other thinges which may serue to y e vse of medicine to auoyd error in their application I doo not deny but rather affirme y t experience is profitable But I presume and am bolde to iustifie that there can be no experience without some reason or cause nor yet I thinke y t our Auncestors dyd vse their simples at all aduentures without coÌ„sideration But rather I iudge that by speculations and foresight in things conuenient they made their experience the which fyrst they coniectured to be good Therefore honour in this case ought not to be giuen to experience but rather to wisdome and counsell which was the chéefest part Nowbeit dayly are discouered diuers kindes of infirmities vnto whome experience and vse caÌ„ not serue because there can be no experience of a thing not knowen So that of necessitie it is néedefull to know by Arte and doctrine the obscure causes of the vice and corruption which the humors and members may suffer in a man besides these that are playne and open as colde heate hunger replexion and other lyke He also that will be a Phisition should vnderstand what thing is actions or naturall operations and what are those by the which we giue and take the spirit of breath we eate and drinke the place of disgestion and how the substance of our foode is deuided to giue strength to our bodies in all places Also it is néedefull to be vnderstoode why our Pulses haue continuall moouing and what is the reason and cause of sléepe watching without knowledge whereof it séemeth that he should not know how to preserue and cure infirmities Besides this men suffer great paynes and passions in the inward partes and members of the body which is a thing néedefull to be known to haue séen Anothomyes of some dead bodyes to haue marked considered the cullor the figure the bignesse the order and the hardnesse softnesse of them all Also the variety and deuision of the same members among themselues which doo ioyne together or how they giue place receyue As we reade that Erophilus and Erafistratus dyd requiring for the same purpose men that were condempned to death to prooue experience For it is a playne case that when any gréefe or interior hurt happeneth and not knowen how or where it is nor yet to apply outward medicine for the vncertayntie of the inward gréefe nor the nature reason thereof And finally for auoyding of 〈◊〉 I say that there are many necessary things appertayning to a good Phisition yea and to declare them only it is requisit that such a one be a learned Philosopher How much more to know how to put them in vre insomuch that Hipocrates sayth that a good Phisition ought to knowe the disease past to vnderstaÌ„d the cure present and also to proâ—osticate the thing to come So that Signor lasper if you haue harkened well vnto me you will not let to confesse that it is a thing necessary for Phisitions to haue bothe rules and precepts and that they be grounded on Sciences Artes. And as this is a thing that can not be common it is therfore necessarie to haue perticuler men Phisitions who ought to be honoured and estéemed as alwayes they haue bene And it is not sufficient that you alleadge that vices and disorders brought Phisitions to Rome for although it had so bene it séemed a speciall gyft of God who hauing sent them diseases dyd also send them remedy And againe contend and say what you lyst the Phisitions dooth not counsell any to distemper them selues but when any happeneth to be dystempered then the straunge is their owne proper and true names from their origen which is not vulgarly vnderstoode And where you speake of their Letters receypt it may be accoumpted a iest a thing not woorthy of aunswer because you know that such breuiations are vsed to auoyde perplexitie for euery Science hath his tearmes and breuiations in wryting And againe where you touched theyr varietie in iudgement the discharge is euident considering the wittes iudgemeÌ„ts of men are diuers so y t with a good whole intencioÌ„ they may be coÌ„trary in theyr sentence and with small perill in medicine considering that one disease may be cured by diuers wayes And by this meanes Phisitions may varry and by suÌ„dry wayes come to one ende which is the cure health of the Patient Now in this order your euyll suspition opinioÌ„ is dasht and broken in péeces by the sufficieÌ„t reasons which I haue declared And I thinke without any more contencion you ought to cease leaue of your ar guing and because I hope you will so do I will not now procéede any further although I haue matter ynough Dun Nunio By my fayth Signor Maister although I vnderstand little yet me thinketh that Signor Bernardo hath shewed himselfe a valliant Drator so that I am nowe on the Phisitions syde I know not what Signor Iasper iudgeth Maister Velasques What he thinketh he wyll say for as yet I ought not to speake because ye haue made me Iudge his turne abydeth for him he hath also wytte and yéeres to aunswer for himselfe ¶ The second part of the Dialogue of Phisitions wherin the matter is concluded and ended Iasper I Am cleane contrary to the opinion of Signor Bernardo and wyll not consent to any of his allegations nay rather I sweare by my conscience that his own reason hath confirmed me more in my Phisition remedieth the same And where you murmure of the inuencion of Syrruppes and distylled waters and of the compoundes of medicines you are the more to be blamed For rather the wytte and aduice of the inuentor is to be praysed and to receyue the same as a good gyft mercy of God who dayly giueth vs new remedyes and medicines And if in olde time they wanted knowledge to make Syrrups and distyll holsome waters both swéete pleasaunt as now are vsed I say therein the aduantage is ours and are therfore more bouÌ„d to be thankfull to Phisitions for so profitable and swéete a thing and because it is a new inuencion it is not therfore to be despised For likewise in olde tyme they knew not was Amber Muske nor Siuitte which are most swéete and excellent Odors And also the Mytridate and compound Treacle which you reprehend The reason is because you
first as Aristotle sayth that those of experience are most fit and able to cure then the learned without experience And speaking perticulerly Plato of Phisitions in his bookes of common weale affyrmeth that a good Phisition néedeth to communicate bothe with sick and whole men yea and that he himself haue bene also sicke finally the ought to be experimented and also there is no doubt but that medicine and Arte therof had his origen of experience and no otherwise So that in this case Signor Bernardo hath no reasoÌ„ to deny the same for certaynly the experieÌ„ces béeing knowen men as amazed began thereby to enter into Philosophy and thereby to séeke out bothe reasons and causes and so is this true in other actes as well as in medicine whereof is aucthor Aristotle in his bookes of high Philosophy and also Marcus Manillius and Virgill doo testifie the same saying by vatiable cases experience made Arte. And because I doo not remember which of these GeÌ„tlemen alleadged Saint Ambrose I doo remember nowe that fauouring and holding part with Medicine he dooth say and affirme in the same I will therfore declare his woords because his aucthority is great which are these Where sayth he had Medicine origen but onely of infirmitie And where in the first age men would teache theyr successors and Decendentes what thinges had done them good and wherewith they cured theyr diseases whereby vse made Arte and infirmitie made maisterie and that is the first and sufficient medicine which experience made and not the coniecture and therefore they were called Expert so that out of this sort sprung the other and from thence tooke his vse force so that woord for woord S. Ambrose affyrmes the same But to auoyde wearinesse I alleadge not other reasons and aucthorities for therein is no doubt at all but that experience was origen to medicine totally necessarie But yet notwithstanding those that were named expert remayne not victors who will not allowe any other thing but onely experience nor yet are ouercome The Rationalles which followeth Arte because betwixt these two opinions there is a thyrd a meane which ought to be obserued and that is That although experience was and is the origen and without the same we can not well craue this faculty yet notwithstanding after the expected preceptes Arte was profitable and not onely profitable but also necessary as well for the inconstancie and chaunges which are in experience as by reasons Héere hath bene touched as well to chuse and know the best which without learning were vnpossyble to doo For it is a playne case that without learning and doctrine you can not make an intiere iudgement and election And if this thing should not be reduced to Rules and Arte all should be confusion and forgetfulnes and discord would confound all so that if onely experience should be admytted Yet Arte and Rules thereof should be needefull to knowe and learne howe and at what tymes in what places at what ages in what dispositions to what infirmities and to what occations theâ—â—â—ofit to some and what vnto others and hereof perforce wée can not be without Rules and meanes and this is the Arte which may not be wanting for although experience hath bene the origen and knoweth howe to finde but not to kéepe But Arte dooth kéepe and conserue also you haue no leysure euerie day to make experience nor all men can not make euerie proofe nor yet to carrie in minde the thinges that hath bene done without Rule and artifice therof And for proofe of a thing so notorious it shall not néede many reasons nor aucthorities for the experience wée haue before our eyes that there is no worke nor occupation so base which is not guyded by Arte and reason The Husbandman and the Marriner of whome Signor Iasper spake saying vse maketh maisterie Although the same were so yet they can not want theyr Regimentes grounded vpon experience wherby they were guyded and learned theyr Arte to be a lyght to teach others the thinges whereof experience neuer wanted vnto them The like dooth the Mason the Carpenter and other Artificers who ioyntly with vse and experience haue their foundatioÌ„ and Rules And sithence medecin hath a more precious and higher suiect it is no reason that it should by them be deminished how much more many of the other causes and knowledge of other things which already hath béen argued and although same will say that to know such thinges should not notoriously be necessary Yet at the least they cannot deny but that it is profitable also although the same should not make a Phisition more perfit yet he should be made more discréet and aduised all which things can not be brought to passe without the learning of Arte and Rules if these things are difficult many they are not therefore to be refused nor yet the knowledge of them as Signor Iasper affyrmeth we know well that Arte is long but yet coÌ„tinuall labour and goodwill ouercommeth And also if all may not be known yet passe with the possible and most necessarie and though there be varietie in oppinions yet also their are determinations and resolucions there are also Phisitions and Counsell for all wherof the good Phisition ought to be replenished more then an other of this opinion are the moste of the wise and learned Aucthors But chéefely Plato in his booke of Rethorick saith for this cause is Arte the medecyn for why it is a faculty that dooth consider know the nature of him that cureth and the cause of the thing that worketh and can of those thinges giue a sufficient reason And that which is alledged is not to be vnderstood only necessary to cure the infirmytie but also a way to sustaine the health for although Signor Iasper say that we know how to eate and drinke without counsell of the Phisition or other Arte by only experience true it is but he that so dooth vsing temperaunce dooth follow counsels and Rules and also aduises giuen by Phisitions and wise men and not so dooing commonly is caused infyrmitye And euen so the moste Sapient Cicero in his second booke of Offices affyrmeth that for to gouerne and sustaine health is needefull for a man to know his owne complexion and to abstaine from suche thinges that offende him and to vse of other thinges which agrée and are profitable for him and to followe the counsell and Arte of them who knowe the same meanyng the Phisitions So that to conclude for with men so graue and wise I néede not to enlarge The resolucion and my vowe is touching the first poynte which was if onely experience were sufficient or else if Arte and learning were néedefull of which two wants in a Phisition The want of learning is more to be suffered than the want of experience but also that the perfit Phisition ought to be expert and learned so that the Medecine muste appeere on bothe sides that is aswell in the
¶ A Pleasaunt Dialogue concerning Phisicke and Phisitions ¶ Imprinted at London by Iohn Charlewood 1580. ⧠A Delectable Dialogue Wherein is contayned a Pleasaunt Disputation between two Spanish Gentlemen concerning Phisick and Phisitions with sentence of a learned Maister giuen vpon their argument Translated out of the Castlin tongue By T. N. ⧠To the woorshipfull Maister Thomas Fowler Esquire T. N. VVisheth hearts desyre THe Christians VVoorshypfull Syr which vse to trauayle toward Ierusalem And also the Mahomettes which wander toward theyr holy place Mecha which is the buryall plotte of theyr Aduocate and false Prophete Mahomet Vse to carrie with them Scrips for their prouision of victualles and other furniture And where those Pilgrymes carry seuerally but one in my Perigrination I carried two the one for my victuals and the other to keepe such bookes as were giuen me bâ—â—he way for charitie And now of late I chaunced to turne ouer my Papers amonge the which I found this little Dialogue concerning Phisick and Phisitions writteÌ„ in the Castlyn tongue by a learned Gentleman called Pedro Mexia who sometime was Chronicler to the late Emperour Charles the fifth And then calling to memory the varietie of mans inclynacion how some are enclined and haue delight to refresh werinesse in reading conferring with notable writers other some haue great pleasure in comfortable Musick and others in the conuersation of faithfull and louing freends And where I am certayne that your recreation is often times among bookes and especially in reading of trauailers woorks as well by land as Sea Yea and your owne person hauing passed the Occean Sea I may boldly say with no great pleasure yet your Woorshippe dooth not repent you thereof I therfore am now the more bolder to offer this little pamphlet vnto you Praying your woorship to accept the small gift and to remember the poore olde woman who offered two mites her gift was small but yet with an exceeding good hart and will and the Almightie graunt your gentle hartes desire Your Woorships to commaund T. N. ⧠The Argument of the Dialogue TWo learned men Gentlemen met by chauÌ„ce the one of them speaketh much euill of Phisitions and holdeth opinioÌ„ that neither Phisition nor Arte of medicine ought to be but y t men should be cured with vse and experience The other doth commend also and defend bothe Medicine Phisitions And last of all the matter is decided by a learned man called Maister Velasques verie notably FINIS Interlocutores ⧠Iasper Bernardo Don Nunio Master Velasques Iasper IT should seeme that we espyed the one the other by our comming out and méeting at one season Bernardo Now truely you say well But whether wander you Iasper If you commaund not other wayes I was determined to goe visite Don Nunio and to kéepe him company for one howre for as yet he is weake of his infirmitie past and goeth not out of hys doores Bernardo By my froth and I came from home with the same intent Iasper Many times it doth so happen the will of two men to moue vnto one thing being a sunder in diuers places yea the one to remember the other at one instant in such wise that it shoulde séeme the mindes to vnderstand eche other Bernardo By the spirituall partes it is no maruell though in some thing wée are like Angels who vnderstand without speaking and communicate their conceytes the one with the other Iasper How so euer it be sith God mooued vs both at one time to méete in a good howre be it and let vs goe together to make our visilation Bernardo Let vs goe through the next stréete for this is pestered with the Marchauntes workes Iasper You say well but looke what a fayre fronte he hath buylt to his house certenly of late the building in this Cittie of Ciuil is greatly mended for within these ten yéeres their buildings are most bewtifull toward the stréete with many faire wyndowes of diuers fashions Bernardo Troth it is ye and manye auncient houses are reedified and although euery one can not doe as he would yet truely y e amendment is great But in one thyng I sée it not and that is in their low buildings for very fewe builde higher then one story whervpon the houses remaine moyst and of small maiestie And therefore straungers which come from Barselona and other Citties where their buildings are of thrée stories high can not away with ours nor yet the buyldings of this Cittie content them Bernardo You say troth but it were not wisedome to comply with bewty and brauerie and to commit notorious hurt bothe to health and life in this countrey it is not conuenient to build high and it hath been bothe aduise discretion not to doo so for naturally the situation of this Citie is hot and moyst and to resist y e heate is a principall remedy the ayre is fresh which ordinarily runneth in the Sommer it is therefore néedefull that y e houses be open not very high to be visited with the ayre and for this cause our auncestors vsed this building for certainly the high buildings are more hotter than the low and more vnholsome in Sommer season for want of aire as we know some that are troubled with this defect also it is necessarie in this place the Edifices to be lowe for remedie of the great moysture that both stréetes and houses may be visited of the sunne and the ayre so that if the houses and Edifices héere in this Cittie were high they shoulde be more cold moyst in wynter and more hotter in Sommer By meane whereof very vnholsome for the moysture is so great that alwayes wee must procure that the sunne haue entraunce into all places of our houses if it were possible al day long the which could not be if the houses and lodgings were high And also the cold here is not so great to consume the moysture as it is in Castillia other partes and where great cold is yet the heate of the sunne is necessarie although in Sommer it be great to consume the ouer much moysture And therefore I beléeue that our forefathers vsed to this ende to make the stréetes brode as nowe the most are yea and in our daies shades and penthouses were commaunded to be taken away for that purpose where by a notorious commoditie and health hath followed Bernardo Truely your reason is certaine and naturall although some times I haue mused thereon yet I was neuer so well satisfied as now I am and I thinke hytherto the same respect hath bene and if it had not it is iust that it be héereafter But it séemeth vnto me that high ChaÌ„bers are not good lodging nor yet néedful for this place in the winter which is not colde and the heate of Summer excéeding hote As for experience noble men which haue high houses doo seldome dwel in them for those causes alleadged but rather kéepe them to lay corne in and for lodging
of their seruauntes rather then for other purpose although in Castillia such high buyldings are most holsome so y t our houses béeing lowe the cause was not for want of knowledge but rather came of a good foresight Let vs now sée howe Don Nunio will buylde his house which hath a good beginning héere I sée much stuffe prepared for the woorke Iasper Let vs vnderstand what he dooth before we alight from our Moyles for sick persons may not be visited at all seasons Bernardo No but yet it seemeth by yonder Moile that Maister Velasques is with him therefore let vs alight and I will leade the waye Iasper God giue your Woorship health Don Numo I kisse your Maistershippes hand and am very glad that ye are comen at such time to fynde Maister Docter Velasques héere for if ye two will speake Latin he will vnderstand ye or els if ye will argue any matter as ye were wont to doo yee haue a good and present Iudge Bernardo No sir for now we come very conformable like good neighbours and we haue not wherevpon to Dispute if you throwe not in a bone as you were wont to doo Maister Senor Don Nunio Dooth not euill therein For alwayes good fruite proprocéedes out of a good discorde Bernardo At the least sir you haue small néede thereof for it is euident that you teach vs all But notwithstanding our talke sir how doo you féele your selfe Don Nunio Truely as yet I am very weake for my disease principally hath béene of a long continuance and also I was letten bloud thrée times therefore I cannot so soone recouer strength and I haue also an excéeding drines remayning in my mouthe so that I cannot abstaine from drinking and thinking my selfe neuer satisfied and surely I beleeue that the Phisitions hath not vnderstood the secretes of my disease to cure it accordingly Bernardo Sir beléeue me I know a man that would not be offended with the drines you speake of for on a time the same man hauing an exceeding burning feauer and drynes The Phisission would haue giuen him certaine thinges to myttigate the heate and drought vnto whom he aunswered very grauely Maister Doctor I pray you doo what you can to ease my extréeme heate But as for my thyrstinesse I would be contented to remayne with all Don Nunio Yea but I am not so great a fréend of drinke for when I am in health I flée from the thinges that should cause thyrstinesse But truly the extréeme drinesse which I haue now came of a Purgation that was giuen me Iasper Yea and therefore I defie Phisitions for I promise you if you had not purged your self you had bene sooner whole and not now so weake Maister Why syr the Phisitions know no better way to cure Iasper Mary syr and that way I would they knew not for it is not conuenient to be vsed Don Nunio If ye had séene what a disputation héere was about what should be giuē to purge me with all and about the letting of me blood ye would haue sayde somwhat Iasper Syr I néeded not to sée the thing for I haue other causes more sufficient to approoue that which I meane to speake of Long agone I knewe howe the Phisitions very seldome agrée in their opiniōs yea and I was about to say that fewer tymes they happen to doo y e patient good Bernardo Then must I say also that you haue for a custome seldome tymes to speake well either of Aduocates or Phisitions But say what you lyst you shall will or nill trust the one with your life and the other with your goodes Iasper Then accursed be I if I doo so at the least to put my lyfe in the Phisitions handes for in all my life tyme hytherto I was neuer let blood nor yet haue had any Phisitions counsell as long as I haue gone abroade in the world And I finde my selfe better in health and more sounder then you who alwayes hath to doo with such kinde of men Bernardo Yea and therfore you brag but I promise you if any disease should take you vehemently you would then crye out for the Phisitions Iasper It might so be that y e infirmitie might be such to depriue mē of my witte and so to demaund helpe of Phisitions but as long as my memorie serueth feare not that I commit any such madnesse for sithens God be praysed I haue lyued 45. yéeres without them yea and haue bene holpen of some infirmities with holsom dyet good regiment I meane not now to prooue new inuentions Dun Nunio Now truly Signor Maister this fire beginneth to kindle for these Gentlemen are armed for the purpose Bernardo I am not disposed to contend But yet I will alwayes defend the trueth Iasper And the same shall neuer want vnto me therefore if you haue any thing to say begin when you lyst for I am ready to aunswere Bernardo Truly Signor Iasper it séemeth a merry toy to call medicine a new inuenciō being as you know the most auncient Art in the world approoued and admitted by God himselfe by men Haue you not read in Ecclesiastes that God created medicine of the earth that the Wise man should not slée from it for the medicine dooth exalt honour the Phisition for medicine he shall be praysed in presēce of kings mighty men Also our Aucthors and humane woorks maketh no lesse accoumpt of medicine although they differ in whom was the inuenter thereof yet all agréeth to reuerēce honour all such Some say holde opiniō that Mercurie was the first others say Apis other affirme Aposto some Aesculapius Homero was also honored for a God fountaine of good writers in many places he I say commends medicine yea did not let to shew name medicinall hearbes how medicin hath ben estéemed of Emperors and kings you know better then I. You haue also read what reward Alexander the great gaue vnto Aristouolus Phisitiō and king Ptolome to Erasistrato Yea the incredible stipend fees which they had in y t tyme of Emperors in Rome wherof Plinie and others make mencion In conclusion looke what a treasure health is which passeth all worldly ioyes the felicitie of the soule excepted yea and contrary wise howe bitter is infirmitie So that these thinges considered you may sée what honour is due to medicine that conserueth vs in the one kéepeth vs from the other Maister Although it hath not bene much which Signor Bernardo hath spoken yet his study hath not bene small as appeareth by his explication Iasper You haue played the good Retorician and sithens you haue taken the payne I will doo the lyke But I would first you should vnderstand that I cōdempne not the good Medicine for I tolde you that I had cured my selfe with only good dyet and regunent yea and also with some hearbes and other thinges whereof I haue experience But I condempne the euyll Phisitions