I pray you not to spend an houre and half in confuting vs in proving that we never denyed as you did before not to contradict your self as Mr Ies. did disproving his owne doctrine the same tyme that he repeated it The doctrine was that whosoever was reputed to be a Minister taught the doctrine in the foundation sound he was a true Minister and yet in the same place at the same time he said that a non Resident was a thief and a robber Now I hope he will confesse that a non resident is reputed by them to be a Minister and may teach the doctrine in the foundation sound therefore a thief and a robber may be a true Pastor or els he disproved his own doctrine which cannot be With grief of heart I assure you I write these things having bene sometimes perswaded that you had more conscience and true knowledg of God then can be perceived in this dealing Thus haue I given you a tast of your evill dealing the Lord give you true remorse at the sight of your sinn or els remeÌ„ber that which Mr Fox hath written of the terrible end of persecuters If you haue any thing to say in answer do not snatch here and there as your maner is but directly and orderly iustify these doctrines which are laid to your charge as false Thus as before so still committing our cause to the iust iudge I take my leave this present the 25. of Mon. 2. 1603. He that desireth your good from his heart Tho. VVhite This letter he wrote as is aforesaid Since which time being here discovered and disappointed of his expectation he hath with Demas embraced this present world and left the trueth of Christ is become a sworne enemy thereof himself and a pleader for like fruits of darknes in others Will he now therfore behold himself in his owne glasse and not forget what maner a one he is but apply to himself his owne speaches of the pillars of darkeneâ— of making the pulpit the chaire of falsehood of abusing the Scripture of black drops falling from his lips of miserable shifting against the light of his consâ—ience of confusion of language and building vp Babel of bombasted boastings of doctrines of desolation of false Prophets blind guides of wayting on lying vanities forsaking his own mercy of seeking to vphold the Beasts ruinated kingdome of being an Edomite of having a mouth like a Dragon of the gift of dissembling of enioying Achans wedge of base thinking speaking of the Prelates heretofore of being now neare a kinne to Cain Ismael Antichrist of the terrible end of persecutors of committing our cause to the iust Iudge c. And how would he reply againe if Mr A. to whoÌ„ he wrote this letter should now answer him by the words of his owne mouth out of his Libell against vs aske him Are these things evill in others good in him Or as the Poet speakes Iustum non iustum non iustuÌ„ iustuÌ„ quod vobis libet Or will he say as Medea in Ovid Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor But rather will he heare the Apostle 2.1.3 What art thou that coÌ„deÌ„nest another doest the same Or the Prophet Psal. 50.16 Why takest thou my word in thy mouth and hatest to be reformed Or Christ himself Hypocrite first cast the beame out of thine owne ey c. Mat. 7.5 Or if he will heare none of these yet let him remember take to himself his owne allegation of Tullies words Testimonium tuum quod in aliena re leve est hoc contra te grave c. Thine owne testimony which in another case is of small weight this against thy self is of great moment Now of his hatred malice against vs the truth since he left it what should I need to speak Himself hath proclaymed it to the world And howsoever he would cloak cover it with pretence of discharging his duty to God his Churches of care for others of omitting many the vilest things of offending chast eares of sparing vs c. yet doth he therein but the more verify that saying of Salomon Hatred may be covered by deceit but the malice thereof shall be discovered in the congregation Shemei himself yea and Rabshakeh could besides other things pretend even the name of God when they rayled cursed most bitterly Wherein also what other thing hath he done in his invective against vs but as the Iesuites and other Papists have often done against Luther Calvine Beza c. of whom they shame not to forge and publish notorious lyes sclanders and all to obscure the truth professed by them VVhose steps how this enemie of ours hath followed let others iudge And let himself remember his owne saying heretofore if he will regard no others that a man who hath run away from his Maister wil seldome give him a good report But thus is he the fitter servant for his Maisters the Prelates by whose authority he pleaded here before the Magistrates that his book was printed and vnder them belike hopeth to be sheltered in England whither he hath now betaken himself for what cause he knoweth best But wheresoever and howsoever he bestow himself let him know God will find him out from whom he cannot fly nor escape his judgement For as Enoch the seventh from Adam prophecyed so is it in all ages to be remembred Behold the Lord coÌ„meth with his thousands of Saints to do iudgement against all men to rebuke all the vngodly of them of all the workes of vngodâ—ynes which they have vngodly committed and of all the hard things which vngodly sinners have spoken against him Iude ver 14.15 For which cuase we could for our owne parts so have left him born in our bosome all his reproach without giving any answer had we not considered that by him not onely our selves but even the faith of Christ which we professe is traduced and oppugned and many that are weak might thus be kept or turned away from the truth and Salomon saith He that is first in his owne cause is iust till his neighbour come and make inquiry of him Therefore thought we it best at this time to make the answer ensuing VVherein as now we have followed the counsell rule of wisdome which saith Answer a foole according to his foolishnes least he be wise in his owne eyes so for hereafter vnles there be great speciall occasion to the contrarie we may the better follow the other counsell and rule which Wisdome in the same place teacheth saying Answer not a foole according to his foolishnes least thou also be like him And specially for this man who hath not delite in vnderstanding but that his heart may be discovered whom God hath already made a spectacle to others of heady contentious and hostile opposition against the faith and witnesses of Iesus Neither let him or any
other of our enemies think their case the better because of our sinnes or troubles or weak walking in the faith whereoÌ„ they do so much insist Concerning which my answer shall be with the words of the Prophet Reioyce not against me ô myne enemie though I fall I shall arise wheÌ„ I sit in darknes the Lord shall be a light vnto me I will beare the wrath of the Lord because I have sinned against him vntill he plead my plea execute iudgement for me he will bring me forth to the light I shall see his righteousnes And he will look vpon myne enemie and cover her with shame which said vnto me Where is the Lord thy God Myne eyes shall looke vpon her now shall she be troden downe as the myre in the streetes And in this will we rest and wayt vpon the Lord the God of our salvation trusting in him that notwithstanding our vnworthines and his chastising which we have deserved yet he will look vpon vs in mercy and make all things worke for good vnto vs in Christ And that thus the vttermost opposition of all our enemies howsoever they set them selves against vs whether against our cause or against our persons against our faith or our walking in it shall turne to our good to the furtherance of the truth witnessed by vs which we have much found that adversaries of all sorts have a long time and many wayes oppugned as they yet daily do and cease not though all in vaine For great is the truth and will prevaile and greater is he that is with vs then they all that are against vs. To him be praise and glorie for ever and ever Amen Esay 54 15.16.17 Behold he shall gather together but without me whosoever shall gather himself in thee against thee shall fall Behold I have created the smith that bloweth the coales in the fire and him that bringeth forth an instrument for his work and I haue created the stroyer to destroy But all the weapons that are made against thee shall not prosper and every tongue that shall rise against thee in iudgement thou shalt condemne This is the heritage of the Lords sâ—rvants and their righteousnes is of mâ— saith the Lord. AN INQVIRIE AND ANSVVER Of Thomas VVhite his Discovery of Brownisme or as he calleth it also his declaration of some of the errors and abhominations daily practised encreased among the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam in Holland TO any that are exercised in the word of God or know the nature and power of sinne in themselues or the doctrine pledges of remissioÌ„ of sinnes by Châ—ist in his Church or the power vse of excoÌ„munication for impenitent sinners or the Churches duty vpon their repentance to receive them againe etc. To any such I say it cannot seem strange that in true Churches and Christians sinnes enormities sundry and great should fall out be found The condition of the Church of the Iewes before Christ of the Primitive Churches after Christ yea of the whole Church and people of God from the beginning of the world to this day shew it plainly and certainly so to haue ben Which work of God so disposing and case of his Churches and the members therof so being howsoever many haue stumbled thereat abused it to their own destruction deceiving of others yet thus would God preach vnto the world and have his own people learne and lay to hart other better things thereby As namely how sinfull miserable we are in our selves how subtilly and continually Sathan seeketh to devoure vs how fast we had need alway to hold faith in Christ and to fight the good fight thereof against all enemies of our salvation and obedience how needfull it is to live in the Church of Christ vnder his conduct and governmeÌ„t how carefull we had need be to make an end of our owne salvation with feare trembling also how exceeding great the mercy of God is vnto vs in Christ his SoÌ„ne by whom not only when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by his death but being also reconciled are saved by his life and finally how infinite his power wisedome is both in preserving his elect to salvation through the middest of so great corruption and in bringing the wayes of the wicked vpon their own heads to their iust destruction and all to the praise glory of his Name These and the like good vses may should we make of the foresaid condition of the Church here on earth Neyther did we ever think or professe otherwise of our selves but that we are sinfull prone to evill in our selues aswell as others obteyning salvation onely by Iesus Christ. Yet may not our or any weaknes of man praejudice the truth of God So that admitting it were with vs as this Adversarie Thomas White hath written against vs yet ought none therefore to be turned away from the truth professed by vs but to make other vse thereof for their own good as we our selues also ought But now if the things he obiecteth be many of them notorious lyes divers of them purposely perverted few of them truely related and all of them as all may see maliciously abused against vs how iustly shall that returne vpon his own head which he would in â—his manner bring vpon vs according as it is said He that diggeth a pit shall fall therein and he that roleth a stone it shall return vpon him His mischief shall returne vpon his owne head and his iniury shall descend vpon his owne pate Prov. 26.27 Psal. 7.15.16 TO come to the Libell it self he beginneth it with blasphemy in the very title thereof calling it A discovery of Brownisme What our cause and testimony is we haue long since published in the Confession of our faith which this man knoweth well hath in his book alledged the 17. Article thereof If then he take our cause for which we are reviled vnder the name of Brownists to be errour why did he not confute it If it be the truth why doth he thus blaspheme it But so to be reproached hath ben the case of the Apostles and Christians of old And at this day are the Protestants thus dealt with by the Papists who blaspheme the truth vnder the name of Zuinglianisme Lutheranisme Calvinisme c. And well it fitteth the Priests of England that as they partake with the Papists in so many other things they should also follow their steps in blaspheming the truth and witnesses thereof That which he annexeth calling his book also A declaration of some of the erros and abhominations among vs as it enlargeth the title of his Book so it increaseth the wickeâ—nes of his sinne For may not the Reader hereby gather that he would perswade eyther that we hold and haue many other errours abhominations besides them that here he imputeth vnto vs or that all our cause and
testimony is nothing els but error and abhomination As also when he saith the errors and abhominations be dayly practised encreased And that not onely in some particular persons but even among the company of the separation and as he speaketh in his Preface in that congregation wherein he would give his instance of prophanenes and hypocrisie This congregation he nameth to be the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam Where the Reader is to know that we who by some are termed Brownists of a mans name who heretofore witnessed this cause are by others called the company of the separatioÌ„ because we do separate froÌ„ the Prelacy Priâ—sthood worship Confusion of the Church of England as being Antichristian do also practise the ordinance of Christ which he hath given for the government ministery worship and order of his Church THis for the Title Like therevnto is his Treatise also Where for his generall accusations of debate malice adulteryes cousonages and other enormities c. this may serue in generall to be answered 1. If he meane of some particular persons among vs falling into such sinnes it hath ben and is the case of all the Churches of Christ vpon earth as may be seen in those of Corinth Galatia Ephesus c. And what need or vse els should there be of the rules power given by Christ to his Church for casting out obstinate sinners and receiving the repâ—ntant in againe But if he meane of the body of the Church as if we approved or reteyned such being coÌ„vinced vnrepentant himself knoweth it is a malicious sclander and his own objections afterward in his book of sundry persons whom for their sinnes and obstinacy therein we have cast out from among vs may shew it also to others so to be We are carefull he hath seen it himself that such be not reteyned or allowed among vs. And we find that even our carefulnes herein is abused against vs because when any of vs are knowen to haue fallen into sinne and are dealt with according as the case requireth whether they repent so remayne in the Church or whether they persist in their evill and so are cut of it is still objected against vs and we are published to abound with such sinnes enâ—rmities Thus might the best Churches that ever wâ—re in the world be traduced as hereafter there is further occasion to shew in some particulars 2. For our selues as I said before we confesse and professe it also that we are subiect to sinne and infirmity as other men looking for salvation not by our own righteousnes which is of the Law but onely by the righteousnes which is of God through the faith of Christ. Yet notwithstanding all the sinnes and vnworthynes of vs let this still be held firme at least till vve be soundly confuted that our cause is the truth of the Gospell of Christ witnessed against the errors of the defection of Antichrist 3. The accusations made against vs are to be considered with their proofs which will afterward come to be seen In the meane time let it be observed whether if some would set themselues to collect particular instaÌ„ces of debate malice adulteries cousonages such other like enormities daily coÌ„mitted by many in the Church wherevnto this man is now revolted though they wrote no vntrueths as he doth many but noted onely the truth of things as they are indeed neyther took the space of thirteen or fourteen yeares as he hath done but of any one yeare among them how might they fill I will not say a few sheeds of paper but even many volumes of books therewith And if T. White were asked according to his own words here whether he had not himself partaken with their abominatioÌ„s vnfruitfull works of darknes and whether he would give warning to others of their leaders evill dealing whereby their people are devoured would he not think you verify his own other sayings here shewing himself to be far from repentance seeking to cover hide cloake reproach and revile vsing falsehood shiftings contrarieties etc. All which are knowen to be so true and comon both in himself and the Church whereto he is returned as I need not write thereof at all their estate dealing proclayme it to all that hâ—ue eares to heare and hearts to regard it Our banishment poverty whereof he speaketh encreaseth his their sinne against vs yet much the more For are not they the persons that bring these afflictions vpon vs and is it not onely because we witnesse the truth of our Lord Iesus Christ against the falsehood of Antichrist yet remayning among them in the ministery worship order government of their Church But let them know that he which judgeth iustly the sonnes of men will remember his banished and execute justice and judgment to all that are oppressed For the poore shall not alway be forgotten nor the hope of the afflicted perish for ever And in the meane tyme even in the middest of all our afflictions are we comforted in the Lord for whose sake we endure them great benefit do we further reap by them not only for our own good many other wayes but in this in particular that these our troubles are a speciall meanes to keep discover and remove from among vs a number of hypocrites such as this T. White who if it were not for our poverty and banishment would flock faster vnto vs and lurk longer among vs vnder a painted colour of holynes making show as if they would depart from iniquity call vpon the Name of the Lord and who more then they when in deed their harts be fraight full of the leaven of hypocrisy contention maliciousnes and all maner of iniquity which in such case and estate of things doth oftentimes both sooner and more appeare then otherwise it may be ever would The calumniation of condemning all other Churches and men we haue often answered and cleared heretofore this also knowen to himself Yet thus he writeth that in this as in the rest of his dealing all might see how it is himself that runneth into fearfull extremities and reproacheth with a virulâ—nt and venemous tounge For our selves besides our reverend estimation of other Churches and good perswasion of other men so often published to the world we haue also shewed it in our walking towards them and namely in our dealing with the Dutch â—nd French Churches of this citie as with true Churches Which had we not so esteemed of them we neither could nor would so haue done and dealt with them as we haue THe letter he speaketh of I haue still with me His falsehood and other bad dealing therein I will here omit save onely about the doctrines by him layd vpon vs. 1. The first is that we held it lawfull for a man to live with her that is not his wife rather then to reveale himself This he saith but how
doth he proue it so to be held by vs If malice had not possessed him this error had never ben imputed to vs eyther as held by the Church or partaken in by the Elders Sometimes in deed we haue had speach among vs of the vnlawfulnes as we were perswaded for man and wife to live together after adultery coÌ„mitted about the band of wedlock being broken thereby whether that in the case of adultery vnknowen to others the offenders were to reveale themselves or not About which latter points when we shewed our judgment reasons this Tho. White who then was present did much vrge that a man who knew such a crime by himself must reveale it or els live in sinne with one that was not his lawfull wife Wherevpon some of vs reasoned with him about it holding that a man should not so reveale himself The end was that we differed in judgemâ—nt about these things having had speach of them but by occasion so rested for the present Will he now therefore make collections and frame positions of his owne or others speâ—châ—s and say as in his letter that they are false doctrines that ly vpon the Church or as here in his Libell that they are blasphemous doctrines of the Church What good dealing this is let the Reader judge And concerning the question aforesaid whereas some of vs were thus minded about it that a man having coÌ„mitted adultery which is vnknoweÌ„ to others is not bound by the word of God to reveale himself but vnfeynedly to repent thereof and that in such case he may notwithstanding lawfully continue with his wife Although I be not here in particular to handle this point yet I will now propound these few things to be considered about it As namely what Scriptures teach a man so to accuse â—imself whether it be not vnnaturall for a man so to do whether in Israell the womaÌ„ spoken of Numb 5.12.13 were bound to reveale her adultery being vnknowen vntill or vnlesse her husband were moved with the spirit of ielousy as the Law there is given And wheâ—her â—â—w â—en should of themselves reveale such their case to the Magistrates who haue power to put them to death for it By what Law of God they are bound therevnto And whether els they cannot haue true rpentance but deny the prophecy of Christ erre fundamentally as here he would perswade 2. The second is That there are qualities in God not essentiall that love in God is not of his being but that the self same love that is in God that is also in vs. Himself knoweth and hath bene here convinced of the notable falsehood hereof yet shameth not thus to publish it against vs. And that now the Reader may know how the matter arose I will briefly shew it We haue in our Church the vse of the exercise of Prophecy spoken of in 1 Cor. 14. chap. Rom. 12.6 1 Thes. 5.20 In which some of the brethren such as for gifts are best able though not in office of Ministery deliver from some portion of Scripture doctrine exhortation comfort sometimes two at a tyme sometymes mo Then also if there be occasion vpon the Scripture treated of are questions propounded and answers made accordingly And the whole action moderated by some of the officers and Overseers of the Church In this exercise the first Epistle of Iohn being treated of vpon these words He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love the poynt aforesaid was by way of quâ—stioÌ„ spoken of And about it there was reasoning by two or three of the brethren this White himself with obiections and answers diversly Wherevpon this Doeg by some of those brâ—threns reasoning the opinion of one of them about this matter took the occasion thus to reproach vs which first he did more privately and now hath done it publikely to the world Wherein his evill dealing is the more notorious because himself being then present knoweth how both at the same tyme the moderation thereof by one of the Elders was according to tâ—e truth disproving the error aforsaid which he would impute vnto vs and afterward he carying himself verie yll about it other things that the matter was againe heard examined in the publick congregation where to his face he was convinced to be a false accuser therein Besides he knoweth the Confession of our faith long since published which alone doth so fully cleare vs in it as very shame of men if no feare of God might haue restrayned his lying lippes and kept him from blaspheming vs with so black a mouth 3. A third thing there was â—nd that obiected by him publickly in the Church and noted also in his letter as a false doctrine lying vpon the Church Namely that vvhen a matter is in the third place to be brought to the Church by the rule of Christ Mat. 18.15.16.17 our order being that the â—lders first have knowledg thereof given them by the parties themselues then that the case being such as is to come to the Church it be publickly propounded and handled by them as in respect of their office apperteyneth vnto them being the governors and overseers of the Church This he blamed then as an error false doctrine contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. But here now he concealeth it And good cause why For when he was called vpoÌ„ for his proof hereof in the publick CongregatioÌ„ where he had made the accusation he was glad to answer that he vvas not provided And this also after a weeks respite to consider of it Wherevpon he was rebuked as hasty to accuse and slow to prove whereas wisedome would haue taught him first to haue bene provided of proof before he had set himself to accuse as he did But if now he think it to be no error in vs and therefore speakes not of it he might even by this haue learned to set a watch before his mouth at least not to haue barked rgainst vs in so vile a maner as he hath done Or if he still think that we erre therein contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. as he obiected heretofore why hath he not here noted it downe with the other aforesaid Is it because that ordinance of Christ overthroweth the Prelacy and government of the Church of England whither he is now revolted it being such as they neyther do neyther can in their constitution obserue that rule at all But how then can he approue them for a true Church in such estate and how will he answer the reason alledged by vs against theÌ„ heretofore in this respect which is this Every true visible Church of Christ hath Christs power spoken of Mat. 18 17.18 to cast out â—â—â—unate sinners from among them But the Ecclesiasticall assemblyes of England haue not the power of Christ there spoken of to cast out obstinate sinners from among them Therefore the Ecclesiasticall assemblies of England cannot in their constitution be
them wee haue alwaies shewed it And this more particularly as we have had more special occasion in our dealing with the Dutch French Churches of this City When some of their members haue left them because of their corruptions and come to joyne themselues vnto vs we haue required such first to deale with them as with true Churches alway should be done namely to advertise the Elders first and then the whole body of the Church whereof they were if they might be suffered of the corruptions for which they thought to leaue them Which we require not of such as come vnto vs from any false Church Also when some of our Church have gone vnto them and declined from the truth which they professed with vs vnto their corruptions we haue had dealing thereabout with the Elders both of the Dutch and French Churches of this towne that were by the rest of their Elderships deputed therevnto before we would proceed with the parties for this their revolt and transgression And when the Dutch Church here received such to be members of them as our Church excommunicated for their sinnes we also admonished their Elders hereof desiring that by themselves or by vs knowledg of these things might be given to the whole body of their Church Which course of dealing we vse not with any false Church or the Ministers thereof But to insert here in particular the dealing that hath passed between vs them of this towne would be to long their corruptions whereabout we have dealt with them are already published By which and this that hath here bene said let the Reader judg whethâ—r we haue not cause to put differeÌ„ce between them the other Churches of these countries not so dealt withal For not hearing of them in other of their Congregations in these countreys this I answer That seeing by the mercy of God we haue seen and forsaken the corruptions yet remayning in the publick ministration and condition of these Churches if they be al like to them of this city we therefore cannot partake with them in such case without declining and apostasy from the truth which we haue our selues already received and professed This also I speak of the members of our Church so walking and witnessing as is aforesaid and not of the members of their owne Churches whose duty I think it is before they may leaue them for their corruptions first to signify them vnto them and by al good meanes to seek the redresse therof among them as being members of the same body with them Which I take also to be the duty of all such as haue knowledge of their corruptions and being not of them yet would coÌ„municate with them in their publick administration And this for true Churches But as for any false these are not the duties or rules prescribed for them but other of a far differing nature namely when once we see their abhominations to separate from them without delay and to witnesse against them even vnto death The further declaration whereof with confirmation from the Scriptures the Reader may have in divers of our Treatises already published about our cause As in the Refut of Mr. Giff. In the Answ. to Mr. A.H. pag. 61. c. But he provoketh me yet further and saith If he can let him name any one Church on the face of the earth now that holdeth not false waies yea even in their constitution in their account Although I might answer as before that the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to walk in the faith of his Gospell excludeth al false wayes in all true Churches whether as yet seen or vnseen and therfore in the Reformed Churches so acknowledged by vs yet because he presseth me so earnestly to name but any one Church on the face of the earth I wil giue the instance of that Church in the west parts of England whereof himself was a joyned member when he separated from the Church of England and held the same faith with them and vs from which he is now apostate And let him now name any false way holden by them in their constitution in our account Of the distinction to be observed between faulty false worship I haue spoken here before As also of his blaspheming the Christians and their Churches despising neighbours and robbing Christ himself of his honour And now by that which hath ben said let the Reader obserue how true it is in himself that after al his earnest endevour not alone to wound but even to kill others if he could he hath turned the poynt of his weapon into his owne bowels Which will also yet further appeare in that which followeth in his particular objection against the Church whereof we are our selues which he saith is not agreable to our description aforesaid Against our selues the proof he bringeth is this that he saith vve are not separate from al open offenders and all false vvayes and to shew this he produceth many particular persons and matters I answer admitting al he saith against vs both the generall and particulars were true yet notwithstanding the description aforesaid should stand good and our Church also agreable therevnto For this yet should be the errour of our practise not of our covenant or calling in Christ According to which we are alway to esteem or Churches as we haue â—hewed before Otherwise to reason as this man doth against vs were to condemne those Churches of Asia Galatia Corinth and all that ever haue bene from the beginning to this day But to come to the particulars his first allegation is that he saith we reteyne among vs open offenders and for instance the first he nameth is one Cast. noted publikly in our meeting for cousonage c. A man that is of the Church of England and so was a good while before this book of Whites was published Sometyme in deed he lived among vs here but after a while began to be so noted and dealt with as fynding the Church to be no harbour for him but that he must walk better or be cast out from among vs he returned to England where he knew he might be reteyned in that Church and where Th. White his fellow will no doubt brook him well ynough But further he saith the Elders here defended that he ought not to be publiklie dealt withall for it because it was not orderly made publik Indeed we hold that private sins should privatly be dealt with if any bring in publick without private dealing going before according to the rule given by Christ Math 18.15.16 we suffer it not but rebuke them that so walk Wherevpon this White himself being by one of the brethren reproved for so dealing with the party aforesaid it seemeth still to stick on his stomack and the more because afterward vpon speach thereof my self with the rest of the Elders signifyed our dislike of such disorderly and evill walking Touching his repentance such as were then
denuntiations reproofs here spoken of both by the Apostle Rom. 2.1 9. and by the Prophet Psal. 50.16 22. and by Christ himself Mat. 7.1 5. Luk. 19.22 Which I leave this hypocrite with his fellowes to ponder and apply to themselves and will now conclude this third head of his Treatise and our answer to his false accusations with that saying of Apuleius Insimulari quivis innocens a quovis nebulone potest Or rather with that answer of Nehemiah It is not done according to thesâ— words that thou sayest but thou feynest them of thyne own heart And with that of Salomon in his Proverbes Be not a witnes against thy neighbour without cause for wilt thou deceive with thy lippes And hitherto concerning the third head of his Treatise Of the fourth head of Th White his Treatise THe fourth and last is that he saith we have drawen the curse of God on our selves by rash vniust wicked excoÌ„munication Where first in generall observe these things 1. That we have the power and vse of excommunication without which no Church can walk aright in obedience of the faith of Christ nor long continue without manifold errors and corruptions prevayling among them 2. That even by this appeareth we hold that evill men may creep into and arise in the Church 3. And that when they are once knowen and will not be reclaymed from their evill we approue them not but cast them out from among vs. And so this fourth poynt being well observed overthroweth the whole tenour and intendement of all his writing against vs. Now to come to the particulars 1. About thirteen yeares synce this Church through persecutioÌ„ in England was driven to come into these countreyes A while after they were come hither divers of them fell into the heresies of the Anabaptists which are too common in these countreys and so persisting were excommunicated by the rest Then a while after that againe many others of whom specially I think he speaketh heâ—â— some elder some younger even too many though not the haâ— as I vnderstand fell into a schisme from the rest and so many of them as continewed therein were cast out divers other of them repenting and returning before excomunication divers of them after As for him in particular of whom he speaketh that he was distracted in mynd 1. He was not then so knowen to be neyther so reputed of his fellowes but onely that he had some trouble of conscience which disquieted him 2. Yet sithens it hath bene pleaded by some that he was distâ—acted wherevpon to himself it hath ben offred by the Church that if he would come affirme as much publikly in the Church as he and others had said more privately to some of vs thereabout and that the contrary could not by any be shewed against him then the Church would acknowledg that they offended in casting him out and he should be received agayne But this he would never yet do although it have bene signifyed to him againe and agayne by my self and others that thus the Church had agreed concerning him And thus standeth his case For the excoÌ„munication in generall it was in deed recalled wheervpon C.S. one of the schismed here mentioned by him wrote vnto me thereabout And here the Reader is to know that my self with some others of vs both of the officers and other brethren were then prisoners at London while these things fell out in the Church being in the Low countreyes Now in his letter he wrote that the brethren had revoked it as rash and vniust denying also that he and the rest with him had made the separation c. With this letter I acquainted the other also then in prison we thought it best considering the case as we had before ben informed and tooke it to be to send his letter to the brethren aforesaid that they might see how he had written thereof we might know the truth of things how they stood Wherevpon the matter being againe and further examined both by them by vs as in such estate and distance of place we could do it was in the end agreed vpon by the Church that the excommunication was iust and not to be recalled notwithstanding the errors in the maner of proceeding thereabout which the Church then did and alway is ready to acknowledg and wherevpon they had before revoked it 〈◊〉 vniust onely in respect of that cirâ—umstance but not at all clearing the schismed of their transgression they stood in which at that time the schismed themselues agreâ—d vnto confessing the cause they stood for to be evill And now both for their good whom this matter more specially concerneth as also for the satisfying of others and that Th. White his abusing of vs may better appeare I will here briefly note downe the grounds whervpon the excommunication was esteemed iust not to be recalled as I find in some writings reserved about this matter Which was thus 1. The excommunicated were found to be abettours of an evill cause and therevpon to have made the schisme at the first and so were guilty of the sinne for which they were proceeded against And this was then agreed on all hands as we were let to vnderstand 2. They also were afterward divers tymes and wayes reproved admonished thereof They had sight of the witnesses testimonies about the matter then in question they heard the reasons gathered by one of the brethren for their conviction the Church sent vnto them of the best able of the brethren to deale with them besides that we wrote from London concerning this matter exhorting them to peace c. And all this before the last message of the Church vnto them which was that they should â—â—me to the Church there they should be convicted or if they came not they should be cast out 3. They yet remayned impenitent and despised the Churches voyce and authority Which appeared by their answer to the Churches message aforesaid being to this effect That as by coÌ„maundemeÌ„t or as vnto the Church they would not come at any time And that whereas some of them were to go out of the towne on the morrow and all of them were at that time vnprovided to maynteyne their cause if they might have a hand with them in appointing another day they would come to conferre with them and mainteyne that they did In which answer be divers things shewing their impenitency and despising the Churches authority 1. Their answering resolutely that by comaundement or as vnto the Church they would not come at any time 2. That they would have an hand in appointing the day when they would come Which might have greatly infringed the libertie power of the Church to yeeld vnto schismaticks an equall authority in such cases 3. That their comming should be to conferre and mainteyne their cause not to shew repentance Besides that some of them also dispitefully asked the brethren when they would draw out their woodden
termed our Buls of excoÌ„munications Suerly God that will not hold him guiltles that taketh his Name in vaine will never suffer such prophanation of his Name and ordinance to go in vaine Such deâ—iding and despising of the Lord and his ordinances is fearfull And a fearfull thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God All his Lords the Prelates authority and authorizing of his book to be published as himself alledged here before the Magistrates will not help him before the Lord who is a consuming fier From whom what can he or any so persisting look for els but to be cast out from his presence and to have their portion among the cursed to heare that fearfull sentence Go ye cursed into everlasting fier which is prepared for the Divell and his Angels Mat. 25.41 And thus hath this Esau shewed himself to be one of those prophane of whom he speaketh here hardened in his sinne and prophanenes and of which also he spake in the Preface at the beginning of his book That in him might be seen the truth of that which SalomoÌ„ saith The lippes of a foole devoure himself The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnes and the latter end of his mouth is wicked madnes that thus also it might appeare how far he is froÌ„ being of the Israel of God that follow peace and holynes without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb. 12.14 TOwching his postscript about T. C. the man himself saith he is falsely traduced by him as he was likewise accused by some other here to Magistrates for the same thing who could not prove it against him when the matter came to be examined And see here still the bad dealing of this man who publisheth his name in this manner to the world onely vpon an hear-say not knowing whether the thing were true or false and then also when he heard withall that he had greatly bewayled his sinne and had not afterward given him any iust or needfull cause so to do For the casting of him out it was thought meet and good considering his former dealing the present case so to proceed yet not without differeÌ„ce of judgment in some of vs thereabout But he was shortly after received in againe being repentant for his sinne Now here let the Reader observe how this man which blameth others for not forgiving of penitent sinners hath not ceased throughout his book to publish and object the sinnes of such against the whole Church and the parties themselves besides the manifold falsehoods and blasphemies into which also he is â—un But his madnes is become manifest to men and his judgement sleepeth not with God who will remember and reward him according to his workes Nehem. 6.14 2 Tim. 4.14 A note of the particulars spoken of before pag. 62. wherein we differ from the Dutch and French Churches of this city wherabout we have had dealing with such of their Ministers as by the rest of their Eldership were deputed therevnto 1. THat the estate of the Dutch Church of Amst. is such as being one yet it meeteth in three severall places whereby it commeth to passe that the whole Church cannot come together in one the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day the presence of the members of the Church cannot certainly be knowen and finally no publick action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Which is contrary to these Scriptures 1 Cor. 12.27 11.20 23. Math. 18 17. with 1 Cor. 5 4. Act. 6.2 5. Numb 8.9 Act. 20.28 2. They baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreover they haue not care as of meÌ„bers neyther admit their pareÌ„ts to the Lords Supper Gen. 17.7 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 7.14 Exod. 12.48 with 2 Chron. 30.6 c. Numb 9.13 Hos. 2.2.4 with Rev. 17.1 Ezech. 16.59 c. 3. In the publick worship of God they have devised vse an other forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a book certaine prayers invented and imposed by man Exod. 20.4.5 and 30.9 with Psal. 141.2 and Rev. 8.3 Lev. 10.1 Esa. 29.13 with Math. 15.9 Rom. 8.26 Eph. 4.8 1 Pet. 2.5 4. That rule and commaundement of Christ 18.15.16.17 they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be observed among them 5. They worship God in the Idol-temples of Antichrist Exod. 20.4 with Deut. 12.2.3 2 18.11.12 c. 6 The Ministers have their set maintenance after an other maner then Christ hath ordeined 1 Cor. 9.14 And that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether popish or other whatsoever might be mainteyned 7. Their Elders chaunge yearely and do not continew in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the primitive Churches Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act 20.17.28 1 5.1.2 3.4 See also Numb 8.24 c. 8. They celebrate Mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration whereas it is in the nature of it meerly civill Ruth 4. chap. Heb. 13.4 1 Cor. 7.2 9. They vse a new censure of SuspensioÌ„ which Christ hath not appointed Math. 28.20 Gal. 3.15 2 Tim. 3.16.17 10. They observe dayes and tymes consecrating certyan dayes in the yeare to the Nativity Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Exod. 20. Commaundement 2. 4. Rev. 1.10 1 Cor. 10.1 â— Act. 20.7 Col. 2.16.17 Esa 66.23 Gal. 4.10.11 11. They receive vnrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan 1 Cor. 5.5 1 Tim. 1.20 About this matter we had dealing with them divers tymes heretofore And we desired that knowledg thereof might by themselves be giveÌ„ to the whole body of their Church or that they would take order that it might be done by vs. But they refused both Whereabout we had afterward some further dealing with them In which time divers messages and answers passed between vs. Which we had thought here to have inserted but now think good for the present to forbeare them Wishing rather that they might be buried amoÌ„g themselves by amendement hereafter then that we should be constreyned eyther by themselves or others as we are already too much provoked to publish them to the world for the further manifestation and clearing of our cause and maner of dealing with them The cautions spoken of before pag. 34. 68. concerning the question following Question Whether such as sometimes have fallen from the truth may afterward by the Church be taken into office Answer We take it not to be meet without these and the like cautious viz. FIrst that there be due consideration had both of the nature of the thing and of the quality of the persons and also of the estate of the Church For the nature of the thing 1. Whether it be from the trueth to the