scripturis spiritualibus existentibus quaedam quidem absoluamus secundum gratiam Dei quaedam ante commendemus Deo If so be in the workes of Creation some keepe close vnto God in secret some are apprehended and vnderstood by vs what hurt or inconuenience is it if in Scripture all Scripture being spirituall there be something contayned which through assistance of Gods grace we can goe through with and againe some thing that we must leaue vnto God Iust the doctrine of the Protestants that some things may bee vnderstood some things past our vnderstanding Non solum in hoc saeculo so it followeth there sed et in futuro Not onely in this world but that to come that God may euer teach man euer learne of God The waters of Silo some where runne pleasantly and may be passed in other some places not foordable Origen singeth the same Protestant song and that in moe places then one of his bookes against Celsus as lib. 5. twise hom 14. vpon Exodus and other where The place you meane lib. 7. contra Celsum I thinke is this For you could not tell whereabout or what it was because your good founder C. W. B. failed you Celsus being a Pagan and an Epicure as happily you are made the same obiection I am sure which you doe now pag. 345. edit Graec-Lat that the Scripture was obscure and vncertaine the sense and meaning not to be found out by wise men so that the ignorant and indiscreet abused it at pleasure More then which no liuing Iesuite could haue said No Protestant would answere a Iesuite otherwise then Origen doth vnto that Pagan Celsus Certe ipsi Prophetae quicquid erat opus mox ab Auditoribus intelligi et quicquid ad corrigendos mores faciebat absque vllis involucris proposuerunt ijs ita vt Deus voluit The Prophets themselues expounded to their Auditors anon whatsoeuer was for them to be vnderstood and whatsoeuer serued to make them good men that they proposed vnto them as Gods will was they should plainly without obscurity at al. Had the Protestants feed him hee could not haue spoken more fully and to purpose in their cause and yet he proceedeth to declare why Figures Parables and Allegories are vsed therein a long discourse to purpose pag. 345. See him that will It is not denied Saint Ambrose Ep. 44. to Constantius compareth the holy scriptures vnto a Sea and calleth them a depth of Propheticall riddles Mare est scriptura diuina habens in se sensus profundos altitudinem Propheticorum aenigmatum in quod mare plurima introierunt flumina But not all scripture in his opinion is that Sea onely Propheticall riddles are that Sea beside which diuersa sunt scripturarū fluenta as he addeth diuers streames brooks shallowes and currents be in the scripture Habes quod primū bibas habes quod secundum habes quod postremum Scripture fitted to euery capacity I know no Protestant that wil aske more Saint Hierome is next who out of Bellarmines obseruations could haue afforded vs three places moe and more materiall from whence this mans director tooke his store and rather should he haue taken any testimony then this if he vnderstood the credit of his witnesse For the commentaries vpon the Epistles extant vnder Saint Hicromes name be none of his but are the Collections of Pelagius the Hereticke as not Protestants say but Papists of name and note Catharme Senensis Pererius Bellarmine and Victorius Marianus Such an aduocate we neede not enuie our aduersary Much good may Pelagius the Heretickes testimony doe him But let him passe for Saint Hierome there is not any thing to purpose spoken by him That which he saith is this He had studied the Scriptures much and long had conference with diuers learned men all his time about the sense thereof and had purposely vndertaken a iourney vnto Didymus at Alexandria vt ab eo in scripturis omnibus quae habebam dubia sciscitarer Therefore what First this Didymus at least vnderstood all scripture or how could he resolue all the doubts of scripture what needed Hierome to haue gone so long a iourney vnto him therfore scripture al of it is to be vnderstood Secondly vnto Hierome all scripture was not hard he proposed vnto him the doubts he had which implyeth they were not infinite not all scripture obscure or doubted of therefore thirdly this proueth the Protestant opinion true that the Scriptures are some of them easie enough to be vnderstood Saint August Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith somewhat more For he descendeth vnto Comparison and saith The things of holy scripture which I know not are many moe then those which I know Such was his humility to say so like vnto Saint Paul in the same case who knew nothing and yet your selfe Sir a man of lesse skill then Saint Augustine not to be named the same day with him if you should goe and make a list of the particular verses in the scripture which you vnderstand and of those you vnderstand not I doe not doubt but those would be more then these and yet further these being so he might iustly and truely say so of all almost For of one and the same place there may be moe senses then one yea euen literall senses and intended by the holy Ghost so that knowing one sense perhaps primary and naturall he may be ignorant of the other and thus all Scripture may be hard Saint August opinion was indeed no other then our opinion is as appeareth in Ep. 100. to Volusianus Tanta est Christianarum profunditas literarū c. Such and so great is the depth of Christian scriptures that I might still euery day learne and profit by them informe my selfe of that I know not before if so bee that at most leysure with my vtmost paines and trauell indowed with as good a wit as any man can haue I should set my selfe to learne them and them alone from my very infancy to decrepite age Hitherto Saint August in appearance for the Papist now insueth for the Protestant Not s◠but that the things absolutely necessary to Saluation are compassed with much losse difficulty and vnderstood But when a man hath once resolued his Faith in them without which no man can liue well and godlily those men that will goe forward with greater proficiency shall meete with so many things in such wise shadowed with mysticall meanings so great proofe and depth of wisedome therein couched not onely in the words which set forth the things vnto vs and to our vnderstanding but also in the things vnderstood Insomuch as that auncient students of pregnant wit of vnwearied pains doe find it verrified in themselues here which the same scripture hath in a certaine place Sirac 18. 7. When a man hath done then is he to beginne So truly doth Saint August resolue for either opposite part who haue shared the Truth betwixt them This was the doctrine once euen of
be feared at your own weapoÌ„s euen vpon your most aduantage Let it be Turn vnto some of the Saints yet haue you no more but opinion and the opinion you most follow of new birth hatched first by Aquinas as may bee collected For as for Saint Augustines expounding it as Catholiques do I will let the Reader see and then judge One of your owne saith Pineda on the place Some take it spoken ironically and so it is for your purpose is it not By which is meant nothing lesse Alij seriò others take it spoken in good earnest but not therefore as aduising Inuocation Call saith Caietan vnto some of the dead let him be a man that hath liued most vnblameably put him to defend thy cause Assuredly not any will make answer because they are not their soules hauing diâ—d together with the bodies Cardinall Luther's great Antagonist was so farre from imagining any custome of Inuocation in the time of Iob which Bellarmine likewise denieth that he supposeth Eliphas to haue been an Atheist and to deny the soules immortality and what be commeth of your custome of Inuocation in his opinion in the time of Iob Eugubinus by Saints vnderstandeth holy men aliue and by Call not Inuocation but Allocution or naming of them And with him accord Philippus Presbyter and Polychronius as it may be collected by your owne Pineda Others by Saints mean holy Angels but present imployed to bee spoken to as apparitions were then frequent among those holy men either Leiger or extraordinarily imployed Angels Lyra runs another course not to the Persons but Precedents of Saints Reuolue the remembrance of Ages past as if Eliphas has said so and go consider the liues actions of holy men thou shalt finde them discussed exceedingly all but not impatient in affliction any of them In such diuersity of opinions and greater than this to conclude for Inuocation assertiuely none can none will but men like your self quiâ—us anima prosale S. Thomas alone must ouersway all because as Pineda confesseth he was the first that applied it to Inuocation Tandem sapienter D. Thomas sententiam hanc ad inuocationem pertinere voluit After all other Expositors saith Pineda he would haue it belong to inuocation of Saints Therefore put vp your Pipes for Saint Augustine singing that Catholique Song S. Augustine's words are these Indignatio quâ quisque angitur tanquam iniquè sibi aliquid acciderit dum non cogitat vsque adeò se immundum esse coram Dâ—â— vt innocanti Angeli non respondeant aut se demonstrare dignati sint qui enim hoc 〈◊〉 cogiâ—at stultus est irâ irrationabili interimitur Aut idcirco Angelos non audire non videre potest stultus quia ir â interemptus à zelo occisus Indignation saith he expounding the second verse which vexeth a man as if he were hardly dealt withall whilst he doth not remember that in Gods fight he is so vnclean that the Angels vouchsafe not to appear vnto him or giue him any answer when he calleth for them He that thinketh not so is a fool and killed of wrath Or thus A fool cannot heare or see the Angels because anger and wrath haue euen slain him Thus Saint Augustine in those Annotations bringeth a double exposition of those words in both according to the Septuagints reading whom hee followeth by Saints he vnderstandeth not men departed and with God as the Catholiques since Thomas doo interpret it but Angels of Paradise Secondly hee is not for calling vpon them for how could he if he held Bellarmine's Rule for Sancte Abraham but vnto them How As familiarly conuersing with them in those daies as often appearing and talking with them his very words either Guardians or otherwise Let it bee so now Saint Peter Saint Paul appear conuerse with demonstrate themselues to vs for my part I will speak to them to remember my necessities or cause to God as I would to your self or any other Christian for your Praiers or the Churches Thus what get you by Saint Augustine or your owne Bible I list see no more I haue seen enough already the vtmost I am sure that you can say and what I haue seen I haue satisfied already both in Scriptures and Fathers elsewhere These very places you haue named and many others I will not as you vse is actum agere onely this for your better direction or information in this point of Iouocation or rather Intercession through Allocution we do not we dare not pray to Saints that is speak to them or intreat them to pray for vs not for vnlawfulnesse of the act so much as for vnaptnes of the Agent for we are not perswaded nor can it be proued vnto vs by any Romish Catholick liuing that the Saints departed and now with God doo or can ordinarily by any power or ability in themselues hear see knowe take notice of the wants state cases or praiers of men on earth to be mindefull of them vnto God in heauen Nor can it bee prooued that otherwise God doth ordinarily reueal vnto them by any means those former specified that so they may take notice of them This must be prooued or it is in vain to pray to them vnlesse a man will hazard his state and all vpon vncertainties It sufficeth not that they knowe some things at some times in some places of some men extraordinarily for so wee are vncertain what Saints knowe what how much when by what means and so may well be blamed of folly for going about when wee may go direct vnto them when we may go to God Saue all other labour in this point prooue but onely this Their knowledge of any thing ordinarily I promise you straight I will say Holy Saint Mary pray for me till then you must pardon vs Protestants for not playing the fools with you XXXI That the bones or Reliques of Saints are not to bee kept No vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead YOu may keepe if you will and lock vp if you please in your Cabinet or Calket or where you will Saint Campions thumb Saint Garnets strawe Saint Loiolaes hayre which cured if I remember Michael Vasques of I know not what or that goodly Relique which at Denham once in Sir George Peckhams house courst the diuell vp and downe from Anne Smiths foot ouer all her body the Priest following Him with his hand vp and downe wheresoeuer the Spirit went And further take Saint Lipsius old breeches to shrine them in and the vertue that did or might drop from them our Lady of Sichem will perhaps lend them to so holy and deuout a purpose I know no Protestant will steale them from you But ad Textum as Marcellinus vseth to say your Texts of Scripture I meane As all the rest so this also is contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles This say I but what Why two things are prooued or should be First that Reliques may
and so began to compose my selfe against expected aduersaries of some performance at least But many weekes many months passed eighteene at least and I heard no noise of those Hereticke-quellers my great Masters who cease not yet to call for disputation At length after much expectation vpon the fifth of October last the same partie premised presenteth mee at once with two seuerall presents The one two sheets of Paper written in haste not fully out with two seuerall hands The Scribe was some puny-nouice in euery point of Scrib-ship For neither could hee tell how to vse or dispose his points nor yet how to spell his words I haue the Originall by mee to shew Any man that readeth it will many times be to seeke to make sense or English of it The Dictator if yet the Author and writer were diuided subscribed himselfe yours in Christ Iesus A. P. a silly man God knoweth as euer talked idly of the Catholique Church the head of the Church the Masse Confession and Purgatory For his discourse beside some â—â—urrility without wit or â—artnesse of my Worship Doctorship c. smattered a little but very poorely and at randome vpon these points but concerning or vnto my Propositions 〈◊〉 my quidem Lucilianum the Innocent meant mee no hurt therefore he bit not Marry he had a cleanly put-off for that thus Hee desireth me at my going to London to repaire vnto Master May his house these are my friend A. P. s own words in Holburne in Partridge-alley A man that I neuer knew nor saw nor heard of albus an ater I cold not tell nor happily should haue knowne in hast but by his relation From him I haue it that Hee was not long since a Minister but is now become a Catholique In good time through discontent perhaps or ambition or some such ordinarie motiue of such Turne-coates My imployment thither was for Satisfaction if yet I had beene sure thereof For I had some cause of doubt in that which followeth If hee will not satisfie you at least he will procure some body else If he will not but what if he cannot Then from Partridge-ally I might happily bee posted to Woodcocke-walke and thence flushed to Fooles-wharfe and so returne home as wise as I went out But secondly to preuent or supply the worst beside and with his two sheets of Paper my good friend A. Pe. out of Curtefie addressed vnto me for my better Edification a pretty little whip-iacke of lesse then ordinary assise in a blew iacket marked in the fore-head with A Gagge for the new Gospell whose worship vntill then was as little knowne to me de nomine as was Master Mâ—â— He was sent with this Elogium and Inuitation at least If you please to answere this little booke and so explicate all the places of Scriptures and Fathers which are cited in it it will be a good worke fit for a Doctor of Diuinity here my friend shot at rouers I am not the man for Doctor of Diuinity I am none And I doubt not but by searching out of these points you wil be of another minde as many of your coate haue beene when they went sincerely and for the loue of God and their own soules adde and somewhat else vnto their studies So hee in his missiâ—es of October vnto me Thus briefly as I could I haue related the occasion of my engagement in this gagling with the Gagger Those Papers I answered presently as I thought fit and left the answere to be returned vnto A. P. who promised to call for it within three dayes but came not within threescore as I am informed if yet he haue come for it I cannot tell The Gagge I tooke to taske vpon my returne vnto my bookes at Windsor as meere a gaggler as euer grased vpon a greene Many idle Pamphlets in this very kinde haue I seene in my dayes but a verrier idiota saw I neuer any With a strange opinion of their owne worth are these Catholicks possessed This poore silly Creature thought Himselfe somebody and his Performings no ordinary Aduenture else sure hee would not so haue proscribed his pamphlet the Gagge of the new Gospell which necessarily implyeth thus much Hee hath stopped the months of all Protestants for euer the proudest of them dare not hiscere hereafter against Himselfe or any one of his Lagg but as geese when they goe in at a barne dore or are driuen on by night a long staffe or pole being held ouer them goe without noise or reluctancy holding downe their heads so the appalled Protestants being crest-fallen and cast downe for euer must goe as this Gagger will dispose of them My friend A. P. sic mulus mulum scabit was well perswaded of this mans performance and irresistable ability when hee sent him to me to conuert me being assured I could say little to him no not so much as bough to a Goose as for Answere him it went beyond my possibility For this set the iury consider but for Conuersion no such matter I assure him his assurance hath failed here I am more confirmed then euer I was in my Protestant profession through his insufficiency Nay had I not been a Protestant he would haue made me one through his poore performing of what he had vndertooke vpon view Whatsoeuer he intended whatsoeuer he hath said was by Him and His addressed not against Iohn a Noke and Iohn a Style this man and that man of the Protestant partie not against priuate tenents and peculiar opinions For what hath the world to doe to take publique notice of them as they are singular so let them stand or fall Salus Ecclestae non vertitur in istis the Church will stand and subsist without them but hee driued directly at the Church of England that moate in the eyes of Romish Priests and Iesuites For though he set his booke to saile with generall commendations A briefe abridgement of the errors of the Protestants of our times and so may seeme to enclose our neighbours abroad yet his drift was directly against vs at home against the Doctrine and Discipline of oâ—â— Church Therfore he wrote in the English tongue alone Therefore his addresse is to The Protestants that are in England onely Therefore he talketh of our English translations and in precise words instituteth his Refutation by Expresse words of our owne English Bibles which confine his Gagge to vs alone that are of that Church for English Bibles belong to English men Strangers haue their owne in their owne Mothers tongue they vnderstand not ours which concerne them not at all Now in point of carriage against the Church of England in his Refutation of our Churches errors in gagging vp our mouthes for defence thereof for euer see the small honesty little sincerity and petty performing of this Gagler In all Churches that are or haue beene vnder heauen euen in the Chutch of Rome it selfe at this day notwithstanding the conclusions of the Councell of Trent
Catholike Reader to 1614. 1616 or any other yeare as well as 1619. by Robert Barker But admit there had beene amongst vt twenty seuerall Translations as you belye vs so long as authority gaue not countenance vnto them what can we be taxed for more then the Church of Rome may not so much as the ancient Catholike Church might For beside eight or nine seuerall translations into the Greeke tongue Saint Augustine is punctuall Lib. 2. cap. 11. de doct Christ that the seuerall Latine Translations in his time could not be numbred and Hierome in his preface vpon Iosua saith there were Tot exemplaria quod codices as many Translations as Copies Which variety he misliked but S. Augustine doth well like And in the Church of Rome at this day are moe seuerall Translations extant of the Scriptures into Latine then are in England into English beside the corrections of the Lovanists of Sixtus 5. and Clemens Octavus contrary repugnant to one the other Besides the infinite variety of the vulgar Edition not one copy almost like vnto another It cannot be obiected with such good reason vnto vs what edition doe you follow as it may be vnto you with reproofe enough Doe you follow Sixtus or Clemens in your quotations For we affixâ— no infallibility vnto any Translator as you doe to their Holinesse that haue thwarted and crossed shins with one the other And if you tye your men in publique passages vnto your authorized Edition so doe we our men in publike Liturgies in like sort Iam sumus ergo pares And you may turne your finger home vpon your selfe before you point it out to vs so that wee Papists haue not all one sort of Bible One or many if it had beene so materiall or so necessary for the Curteous Catholike Reader to know which Edition it was you followed but that you are meerely a vaine man the inscription might haue told vs which you followed without any great adoe or incumbring of the Page thus After English Bibles you might haue added in quarto by Robert Barker 1615. and not made so much adoe about plaine nothing but then you could not haue had this fling at so necessary a Point the great variety of our translations and such an opportunity was not to bee slipped for giuing the Protestants a wipe with a meere lye of the multiplicity of Bibles differing one from another Seconded with another of like nature For know for certaine Reader whatsoeuer thou art there is no such faithfulnesse in these citations as this man pretendeth For neither are all citations word for word expressed in the Gagger according to our Bibles of any Translation but sometime the sense onely sometime not that and sometime expresse consequence and no more Contrary to promise and vndertaking euen so when the sense is not differing from the supposall For by promise he was bound vnto expresse and direct words And yet pardon him this false asseueration that they are not so written as he pretended not in that Edition of Robert Barker As for instance Luc. 24. 27. 8. 13. Math. 9. 3. 3. 8. and 3. 5. 6. and 19. 12. Act. 15. 14 15. 1 Cor. 14. 32. 2 Cor. 11. 2. and 2 Cor. 5. 10. Philip. 2. 30. Esay 49. 21. And haply other places beside these This is the first point Reader to serue thee for thy profit and togather fruit thereout A second is touching the splendour of Truth which indeed is admirable and attractiue Falshood and fraud are corner-creepers but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Truth is euer with a cheerefull countenance and as the verticall sunne at noone which hauing dispelled both the darknesse of the night and fogges of the day shineth forth in brightest glory But there are shadowes as well as substances et notâ maior imago most an end in course of kind the shadow is of greater aspect then the substance Truth is appearing as well as Being The diuell will seeme an Angell of light Not the veriest Theese that euer tooke purse but will say of his fellow and sweare for himself we are honest men Change but the tearmes the case is yours Sir Gagger The truth is your owne is it not Oh take it as granted though nothing more questioned or so questionable yet the Truth is onyour side there is no â—ay You may speake it boldly and stand to it stoutly to your Catholike Readers For if you want Knights of the post themselues will supply the place and sweare it That notwithstanding the Protestant Ministers haue endeauoured to obserue you would say obscure the same by so many varieties of translations and by such an infinite number of corruptions and falsifications yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their own Bible and is so cleare to al the world that nothing more needs hereto but only that thou know to reade and to haue thine eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke Euen as you put the words into their mouths as a witnesse at large in case of Tithes once did sweare in my owne hearing he knew the place Tithable for 300. yeares and yet was aged but 99. yeares This man spake with a good will to the cause So will your Catholikes if you aske them touching Protestant Ministers their Translations Corruptions and Falsifications beleeue you forestall you protest and sweare for you accordingly Can you desire greater Curtesie then so Some variety of Translation betwixt ours and yours your selfe haue taken the paines to obserue in these Propositions 7. 14. 15. twice 25. 29. 38. 46. and happily some others Are these Corruptions or Falsifications of the text you charge them not so you cannot you dare not doe Variety of Translations for all your enlarging there are not many As many or moe in the Church of Rome If so not authorised you will say Why no more are ours The Councel of Trent hath authorised yours and the Church of England representatiue ours Neither one nor other this or that for Authenticall variety of Translation there may be some if this make Corruptions or Falsifications your Authenticall Latine is in a poore case or rather a shop of Corruptions to depraue and obscure the splendour of Truth which is such and so passing bright notwithstanding that it shineth forth aboue and against them all For if a man can but reade and haue his eyes in his head at the very opening of the booke he shall finde your Bibles infinitely full of such varieties which no man will deny per aduenture not your selfe who yet may claime to weare a Liuery as one of Belzebubs attendants in this kind And for Corruptions and Falsifications if they be so infinite and so cleere it had beene honesty to haue named halfe a score halfe a dozen one at least to haue acquitted your toung of Lying and slandering as it is Calumnia est non accusatio There are quoted by you in your Abridgement 276 seuerall places
of Scripture or thereabout It seemeth strange vnto me that not one of these should fall foule vpon that infinite number of corruptions and falsifications which you talke so freely and loudly of vnto your Catholike Reader Had there beene any such thing to be discouered your charity wee know is no way so Transcendent as to conceale it wee should haue heard thereof on both eares to a purpose He can doe little that can not belye his aduersary in grosse though put him to proofe and he prooueth recreant Do this I challenge your Gagship if you can or dare or prooue your selfe a Gagler and a Goose for euer For variety of reading deprauation corruption falsification here I offer to charge and prooue your most Sacrosanct Authenticall edition of Trent in the best and most corrected copy you can choose is as guilty of at and euery one of these particulars as you or your betters can proue our Bibles to be When you will or when you dare vndertaken it shall be And this in my mind is but a cold comfort vnto a Catholike who opineth poore deceiued soule that hee may be secure and build his saluation vpon the facing impudency of euery light-skirt mountebanck and shaued emposter You do well to seale vp the truth and vprightnesse of this forlorne cause of yours with security and assurance that is to captiuate their vnderstanding with implicite faith For you know and I can make it good that let the Truth you talke of come to scanning Lucians true History will be as warrantable It is true I deny not our translations all and singular and so your owne done by your owne men differ both amongst themselues as also from the Authenticall Latin as you call it notoriously your Authenticall Latin differeth from it selfe Is this to the disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Looke you to that I can rid my hands of it well enough and cleere both our Church aâ—d Bibles of all such imputation or impeachment of Catholike verity any way If it bring such disparagement the reason is in my conceit you swarued euen from the Councell of Trent which neuer intended such a royal prerogatiue vnto your Latin edition as the Iesuits and Iesuited faction giue vnto it I speake not this to disparage it I professe I respect it as much as any Translation extant and to quite your kindnesse in being content to be tryed by our Bibles I will be tryed in any point the Church of England maintaineth this day against the Church of Rome by no other but your owne Authenticall Latin Eate your words Goodman Gagger I am your aduersary I professe my selfe I will and dare offer my selfe to giue what aduantage you can make thereof to be tryed by your owne Translation and to deserue your loue the more may happily ere long Gagge your mouth in this very kind of putting you to it with your owne translation In the interim put mee to it when you please I will not waue your so Authenticall Latin in maintaining the assertions of our Church And so much for your second point of aduice vnto your Reader Thirdly you aduise him somewhat farther off for generall affronting the Protestant in any point whatsoeuer as I can conceiue it in briefe thus The manner of the Protestant is in conference of controuerted points when he is vrged with text of Scripture plaine and euidens to beate backe the argument or as you phrase the thing to Counterpoint it with some other text of Scripture For instance when you bring those euident few words This is my body they vse to rebutt it with Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake vnto you they are spirit and they are life and by this allegation suppose they haue put by the point of your weapon or giuen you a great ouerthrow as you speake In such a case your aduice is to shew the party amiably that this is not to proceede by order and that he dealeth not with thee as he ought nor sincerely in opposing a passage darke and obscure to confound a passage that is most cleere A man may take good counsell of his enemy though against his will and so haue no cause to thanke him for it Sir Gagger of your selfe and your owne gagle this aduice we meane to make vse of and put it home to your selues as we haue occasion frequent enough I know no men guilty of this blameable carriage at least so guilty as your selues be I haue rubbed your memory with it sometime as it fell out But here hauing so iust cause you can not blame me if I gagge you with your owne gagge Misticall passages are not argumentatiue What so mysticall as the Reuelation In which are tot Sacramenta as many darke passages as there by words And yet we want not proofes of plainer particulars from mysticall signing in the forehead The number of the beast Power giuen to the Saints ouer nations What more absurd then to prooue ordinary oeconomy in Gods disposition by extraordinary dispensation This you haue done out of Math. 17. 3. Math. 27. 52. or points of faith as you would haue them out of a dreame 2 Mac. 15. 12. Prayer vnto Saints is defined in your Creed Your proofes for that against euident scripture Psal 51. 15. are Luk. 16. 24. Iob 5. 1. Without Purgatory Popery cannot stand The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two pillars of Purgatory are those two places of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. 13. 1 Cor. 5. 29. then which there are not two more obscure places in all the scripture Adde to them a third though of a baser alloy that intricate and depraued place of 2. Mach. 12. 44. I could goe further and gagge you Doper out of your owne practise Who if you had not so much honesty as to forbeare belying of your opposites should haue had so much discretion as not to obiect that vnto another which had you that good signe of a bad cause in you Blushing might ashame you being by recrimination retorted vpon your selfe I say belye for it is not better nor worse but euen so For Transubstantiation that monster of monsters you haue neuer done with This is my body Which we deny not either in words or sense The very body of Christ really receiued in the Sacrament of the Altar is warranted by those formall words of Institution This is my body but not per modum Con or Trans or any other like It is not said This is my body corporally eaten orally there carnally conceiued of grossely This cannot be say the Protestants and for proofe thereof that the thing being granted the manner cannot be so conceiued proceedeth thus That which one Scripture proposeth cannot bee contraried by another But this carnall sense of those words This is my body is contraried by another an instance In Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing as plaine a text against carnall eating of Christs flesh as can
what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
recouered after his fall and perseuered vnto the end Our Sauiour said not to him thou shalt not deny mee but That thy faith fayle not and that his faith did not eternally fayle it was out of his speciall fauour vnto him and care of him saith Chrysostome hom 83. in Math. This is the prime true and literall meaning of the Text euen in the opinion of your owne Partiaries that Christs prayer was personall for Saint Peter restrained vnto Saint Peter alone which being so first setled and acknowledged Peter may be said in a secondary sense to sustaine the person of the whole Catholique Church in which sense many and they no Protestants doe vnderstand it And so his Faith that is the Faith of the Church fayled not either totally or finally no not in the greatest eclipse that euer was because Christ was euer heard in that which he prayed for and he prayed for the Church The refiners of Popery the quintessense of villany the Iesuites haue inuented a third sense to fit the purpose more than the former This promise was made say they to Peter not personally but as Pope And therein was inferred thereby assurance made that the Pope neuer did neuer should neuer could maintaine decide hold belieue any thing against Faith A thing not heard of but out of such mouthes a late dayes False in euent for their faith hath failed totally finally vtterly for euer False according to themselues and their other resolutions For Peter was not Bishop much lesse Pope when our Sauiour Christ prayed for him insomuch as by inchoation when hee denied Christ saith Bellarmine And good reason for his saying so lest his successours might fall into the same predicament His principality in and ouer the Church was not inuested in him vntill after our Sauiours Resurrection Thus hee de Rom. Pontif. 4. 8. therefore hee did not pray for him as Pope Therefore Bellarmine contradicteth himselfe and is contrary to his companions Therefore this prater gagleth hee knoweth not what against his owne rules and against his Masters As also out of Matth. 16. 18. The gates of Hell shall not preuaile against it It What Saint Peters Faith Was the Church therefore built vpon Saint Peters Faith Take heede of that It is the Church not his Faith nor his Person nor his Papacy But let it for once be his Faith I answere there is a twofold preuayling against First to ouercome So Iosua in fight preuayled against Amalec by the signe of the Crosse rather than the sword Secondly a preuayling against to destroy So did Saul preuaile against the same Amalec The Gates of Hell did not preuayle against Peters Faith to vndoe it For being lapsed hee recouered and mightily preuayled against them They did preuaile against it to ouercome him For he forswore and denyed his Master The Faith of Marcellinus and Liberius fayled but they recouered as Saint Peter did The Faith of Honorius and Iohn 12 fayled happely hee recanted before his death and so his Faith did not fayle finally But Iohn 12. liued and dyed in his Faith that is in his Sinne and so Body and Soule went to the Diuell Saint Peters Faith fayled onely for a time Of this speake the Protestants His Faith fayled Saint Peters faith did not finally or irrecouerably fall Thus intended our Sauiour in that saying I haue prayed that thy Faith fayle not But Sir it mattereth not much what became of his Faith His Person is the thing to be stood vpon his Power Principality Papall Prerogatiues seated therein this I trow is so cleare in holy Scriptures no great neede to fortifie it by or from the Fathers and yet I maruaile why if so cleare there wee haue so few Texts of holy Scriptures for it onely two Texts nay scarcely that For one of these is cleare for another thing And againe whatsoeuer you vaunt of Fathers needelesse to be brought it is more than presumption you had not one Father to fling at this Faith not fayling For when you haue them you spare them not IX That a Woman may be supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all Causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was QVeene Elizabeth was With lye and all No Protestant euer saide so of Queene Elizabeth No Protestant euer thought so of any Woman You shamelesse pennes and brazen faces You haue often vouched Caluin against such Gouernement whom you make the Patriarch fondly of our Profession and yet you impute it to our Doctrine Lyers in this or in that needes Can you of your knowledge say this title was giuen vnto Queene Elizabeth Did shee euer practise it actually or challenge it habituall to her Person or her State And if it had beene challenged or giuen in Her time seeing that it is not at present but disclaimed by him that best may and seeing it dyed if yet it euer liued together with her what meaneth this quarreller to stirre vp a new allayed strife and trouble things setled and well disposed of The truth is Queene Elizabeths stile was no other then than King Iames is now mutatis mutandis Ouer all persons in all Causes not and all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Ciuil in these her Maiesties Realmes and Dominions next vnder God supreame Gouernour Can your small vnderstanding put no difference betwixt Ouer all and In all betwixt Persons and Causes ouer all Persons in all Causes is one thing Ouer all Persons and all Causes is farre another thing Ouer Each or ouer Causes without Persons looketh your way But Causes with Persons ouer the Parties in their proceedings is no such exorbitances no Scripture expresse none inferred against it to any purpose We doe not professe much lesse propose or propugne that Princes are Heads or Gouernours to any such intent as to coyne or set abroad new Formes of Faith to determine what is defide what not as your side belyeth vs and beareth your Proselites in hand we doe Wee giue no such authority to any humane Power They were of you that did it at Trent that cast it vpon your Lord God the Pope He was one of you none of our side Stephen Gardner by name who to flatter the Prince in state and keepe himselfe in those hurring times in his fauour openly auouched as Cardinal Poole relateth That the King might take away the Cup from the Laity Potestas enim summe est penes regem For the King hath supreamest Power Such aphorismes neuer came out of our mouthes We say Princes haue supreame Power in Earth vnder God ouer all Persons in all Causes whatsouer within their Dominions euen in Causes meerely Ecclesiasticall to compell them to doe their duties by the Ciuil Sword Not ouer all Causes to doe as they will to command or change beliefe or Faith Will it rellish better with you in Saint Augustines words Then this is our profession in his words Kings serue God as Kings if in their owne Realmes they command good things not alone which concerne the
ciuill state of men but which doe also touch Religion and Piety Thus he so we in our Profession ouer all persons in all causes Not In all Causes alone and singular as you traduce vs. Hoc posito Now see wee your Texts of Scripture contrary to this in our owne Bibles 1 Tim. 2. 11. Let the woman learne in silence with all subiection Therefore a woman heire or otherwise cannot be Gouernour in her Realmes Doe you thinke that the Lady Infanta no Protestant Princesse will be so confinde because shee may not say Masse nor speake in the Congregation therefore as Dutchesse of Burgundy or Countesse of Flaunders may shee not meddle with the State Marke your owne words But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to vsurpe authority ouer the man Therefore shee cannot be supreame Gouernesse Let Catholicke Ladies looke to this Such Fellowes if they had their due would haue their mouthes gag'd with an halter I their tongues cut out and cast to Dogges If this were intended by Saint Paul I maruell why the Eunuch returning home into Ethiopla did not put downe Candace from being Queene If you take it not as you speake it for Equiuocators say one thing and meane another generally of all authority nor yet of any subiection but as Saint Paul restraineth it onely to Teaching and speaking in the Church we subscribe vnto you wee are of the same minde with you we say the same thing that you doe but then wee call your honesty into question and affirme you deale perfidiously with vs in belying vs and falsly with your Proselites in seducing them Did euer any Allen or Saunders or Parsons or Kellison heare Queene Elizabeth Preach Did euer any see her administer the Sacraments take vpon her to expound Scripture appoint Faith or denounce Excommunication Shee claimed and might and had authority commanding coerciue coactiue ouer Church-men Did shee euer challenge or vse it or was it giuen her in Church-seruice as Saint Tecla did and Saint Katherine of Siena in your Legends as Pope Ioane did if there sate such a strumpet in Saint Peters Chayre as Prioresses and Abbesses haue and exercise by your Canon Law or with Dispensations An Abbatesse may command the Priests that are subiect to her to excommunicate her rebelling Nunnes and the Priests are bound to obey her So Tabiena Armilla Panormitane Astensis The Canonists are of this minde saith Stephanus de Aluin that the dignity of Prelacy and excellency of Office may giue to Ecclesiasticall women therefore howsoeuer to women spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction which they may enioy not onely by right delegated and committed vnto them but by ordinary also Now good Sir Gagger how digest you this good Catholicke Doctrine gaue wee euer so much to Queene Elizabeth Is this according to your Bibles or are your Bibles and ours not the same That of 1 Cor. 14. 34. is not cited according to our Bibles of the last Transation which you yet pretend to follow and howsoeuer cited it is not to purpose onely it discloseth your leud demeanor Saint Paul forbiddeth women to speake or teach in Churches so doe we And in conuenticles also you may see it inquirable presentable punishable in our visitations if any such presume to expound or interpret Scripture in priuate Houses You may sooner heare Pope Vrban preach then any Woman with vs to execute any function Ecclesiasticall who with you doe ordinarily baptize For satisfaction to poore misled Catholikes in this point if yet they will be satisfied take the resolution of our Church Art 37. The Queenes Maiesty it was made you know in Queene Elizabeths time hath the chiefe power in this Realme of England and other her Dominions vnto whom the chiefe gouernement of all Estates of this Realme whether they be Ecclesiasticall or ciuill in all causes doth appertaine and is not nor ought to be subiect to any forraigne iurisdiction 2. Where wee attribute to the Queenes Maiestie the chiefe gouernment by which titles wee vnderstand the mindes of some slanderous folke to be offended wee giue not to our Princes the ministring either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments The which iniunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queene doe most plainly testifie But that onely prerogatiue which wee see to haue beene giuen alwayes to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himselfe that is that they should rule all estates and degrees committed vnto their charge by God whether they be Ecclesiasticall or temporall and restraine with the Ciuill Sword the stubborne and euill doers This is all that Queene Elizabeth had or challenged Publike Records publike notice publike testimony of the State and all that then liued are of greater credit I hope with all moderate and honest Romish Catholikes then the leud lying aspersions of a partiall Factionist such as this Fellow is and many of his companions are who haue taken vp this course as of inheritance and kinde to dare say any thing in despight of honesty and truth in ordine ad Deum for the Catholicke cause X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist THat Antichrist was to come and so prophecied of that he is called That man of sinne is in my Creed and an Article of my Beliefe as being plainly and directly expressed such in Scripture And this I know no Protestant but beleeueth But whether he was to be One particular man or a State a succession opposite to Christ I know no Article Canon or Iniunction that tyeth mee to beleeue The Church of England leaueth me to my opinion Euery man may abound in his owne sence and beleeue it or not beleeue it as he will For who dareth peremptorily define what God himselfe hath not but left at liberty The Fathers I grant runne most vpon one man So doe your Masters of the Roman Church The Protestant Writers doe most of them encline rather to a Succession and a state of men but not all Not all so peremptorily as not to encline notwithstanding vnto one man who more then any of his rank shall oppose himselfe to Christ in that state and Succession Antichristian vnto whom all those markes and descriptions set downe in holy Scripture shall perfectly agree as Zanchius and many others doe hold For in point of Prophecie and that so obscure as this vntill plaine euent doe make it manifest iudgements doe and may well sauing the peace of the Church vary nor should wee condemne or censure Dissenters any way from our priuate opinions Whether the Pope bee that Antichrist or not the Church resolueth not tendreth it not to be beleeued any way Some I grant are very peremptory too peremptory indeed that he is He for instance that wrote and printed it I am as sure that the Pope is Antichrist that Antichrist spoken of in Scripture as that Iesus Christ is God But they that are so resolute peremptory and certaine let them answere for themselues they
we goe see in Irenaeus Or in Tertullian who in his Booke de poenitentia I must supply the Chapter you had forgot it or else could not tell it Cap. 4. blameth some that through bashfulnesse would not confesse but where or to whom he telleth not Happily he meant it of Confession vnto God For almost instantly before he hath these words Quâ delictum nostrum Domino confitemur To God notto man and Delictum the sinne that lyeth close that presseth downe that disquieteth vs in Conscience not Delicta our sinnes by enumeration But passe it for priuate Confession to a Priest Tertullian vrgeth it no farther then for conueniency and draweth it vp no higher then Delictum Euery way conspiring with the Protestants who mislike not Confession nay approue it vnto men who condemne not Absolution but approue it enioyne it though not with that rigour as Romanists doe and approue Saint Ambrose counsell well Confesse freely vnto the Priest the hidden secrets of thy soule If yet it be the counsell of Saint Ambrose For Plagiary as you be did you not here mistake your Authour and Father that ignorantly vpon Saint Ambrose which Bellarmine telleth you was the aduise of Gregory Nyssen Orat in mulierem peccatricem Such grosse Bayardismes in so insolent a Bard are intollerable Saint Ambrose hath no such Booke de muliere peccatrice 2 de paenitent 6. He exhorteth to repentance but not a word of Confession vnto a Priest many confessing vnto God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times IN the Apostles times no nor yet many hundreds of yeeres since their times Such Pardons as commence in the Apostolicall Chauncery such as Tecelius dispersed in Germany others in other Countries are impious irreligious prophane and sacrilegious coosnage an imposture of Merchants that trade for the Diuell that chaffer Heauen and happinesse for the reward of iniquity The first mouing cause of Luthers rising vp and taking Armes against the Church of Rome Bellarmine and Baronius those grand Dictators and vndertakers for the Papacy faile in proofes of this nouelty and what can such a puny as this fellow performe Yet let vs see his best endeauours and fairest shewes because with Catholikes euery Pismire is a Potentate as euery Goose a Swan Contrary no doubt to our own Bibles we denie them For 2 Cor. 2. 10. S. Paul remembreth them thus To whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also c. You must know that are to learne The Corinthian that had married his Fathers wife was for his incest Excommunicated and put to penance by the Apostle as appeareth 1 Cor. 5. 3. Well what when why here he giueth order for his Pardon This is not denied vpon any hand The Protestants beleeue the Scriptures more then Papists will doe Why but these two places compared are a plaine proofe of the Apostles power of punishing and of pardoning They are it is granted Therefore Pardons were in vse in the Apostles time Is any Asse so ignorant as to say nay Long before the Apostles time they were in vse Long before Moses or Abrahams daies Can a man with patience here this Animall thus bray I suppose there is no Roman Catholique beside himselfe so sencelesse as to imagine Protestants beleeue or teach That no offender was pardoned in the Apostles times That the Apostles had no power or wanted will to accept any Contrite and Penitent into the Church Ingenuous Romane Catholikes can you brooke the wittall thus to babble Pardons were in vse then after before but Pardons no more like the Pardons hee meaneth or should maintaine then Simon the Sorcerer was to Simon the Tanner or Stephen the Deacon to Stephen Gardiner or this goose gagger vnto an honest man 2 Cor. 2. 6. In the same case vpon the same person the Apostle saith Sufficient to such a ma 〈…〉 his punishment And therefore he forgaue what remained of his punishment not yet fulfilled So that there passed an Indulgence for his farther durance There did no doubt We willingly yeeld it and take it for a warrant against Nouatian Puritanisme for a ground vnto the Discipline of the Church whose practice in Discipline is established Art 33. It is in the hands of the spirituall Magistrates to measure the time of such punishment or penance imposed Let your Pardons be no otherwise and we quarrell them not Let them stay vpon the liuing in foro fori and not meddle with pardoning the dead for money nor yet coosen the liuing by false Coynes out of the supposed Treasures of the Church and no opposition will be vnto Pardons granted no though sold in externall Courts abroad For the faults of men shall not be imputed vnto the Discipline by vs if that were rectified as it ought to be But the man is conscious to the foulenesse of his Cause and prophane Roman marting and therefore attireth a prostituted Strumpet in the habit of a graue Matron Popish pardons and Indulgences so prophane and enormious are passed vnder the names of those things with which they haue no more affinity then in name which the Prince of the Apostles of the Lambe had with the first begotten of the Diuell Pardons and Pardons Simon and Simon homonym 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 s. For the Doctrine and Practice of the Church for Repentance in Excommunication Contrition Confession Satisfaction Restitution Absolution is according vnto Piety and the rule of Faith in those that haue sinned and are restored but in the Church of Rome thus it goeth They imagine a treasure in the Church compounded together out of the satisfactions of Christ and his Saints which Treasure so composed is in the hands say they of the Pope and other Prelates vnder locke and key safe enough from purloining to be disposed and dispenced as they shall thinke good to whom they will open and communicate it more or lesse which is euer Danti for Giff-gaff is a good fellow to none else and answerable to his purchase much or little Plus or minus danti as his meanes are For in euery good worke there is Merit and Satisfaction Merit is Personall not Transitiue nor yet Communicable but Satisfaction is and may be imparted Because Satisfaction is onely for a Temporary paine which is often more and greater then Iustice or right for the offence exacteth So that God in Iustice requiring but Proportion the ouer-plus in remainder is laide vp in store against time of neede and drawen forth for vse when mens purses are flush then not till then to be soueraignly applyed vnto the purchaser not payer This premised to your Scriptures and ancient Fathers Find you any such Pardon in Saint Paul foreprised or Indulgence imparted vpon those termes The Corinthian was restored without a Bul a Bishops Seale a Commissaries direction vnto the Parson He payed no rate nor fees for Restitution or standing rectus in Curiâ No Treasure of the Church was applyed vnto him Vpon his hearty repentance and
hearty satisfaction he was restored Satisfaction not to God but to the Church whom hee had scandalized by his fall Goe along with Saint Paul and the Primitiue times no man will euer say Blacke is your Eye We haue seene Mathew 18. 18. and 16. 19. once and againe to as little purpose then as now and now as then The name Pardons and the thing your Pardons are two things much differing euery way and yet in neither place auonched is the Name as by your vndertaking for Expresse it should be The thing as much differing as white and blacke Power to binde and loose we denye not wee maintaine and practice it in our Church We may differ in the Execution but Circumstances alter not Nature your proofes may vouch the Thing the right the vse the being but manner fashion execution onely doubted of and to be proued that you touch not See Fathers that list and like to loose their labour In Tertullian I am sure nothing either in the first Chapter of his Booke ad Martyres remembred by some other of your Gossips nor in his fifth which is supplyed out of your store His Booke ad Martyres is very â—â—ort Finde me Pardons and Indulgences there mentioned and I will purchase a Bull from Rome my selfe whatsoeuer it cost me deere enough without doubt That which you haue a minde vnto by direction of others is this as I guesse Quam paâ—em quidam in Ecclesia non habentes à Martyribus in carcere exorare consueuêre Which Peace some not enioying within the Church haue beene accustomed to intreat the Martyrs in Prison for it Peace there is Pardon after the African phrase of Tertullian and Saint Cyprian whom you make your second Father to be seene and whose testimony is almost idem numero with Tertullians The meaning of both as Pamelius no Protestant may enforme you was this Those that had fallen in time of persecution to auoide or eleuate the censure of the Church through their great suite and importunitie often procured letters deprecatory to the Bishop and Clergie whereto they were lyable from Consessors such as were emprisoned for the truth whom those Fathers call Martyrs that so at their intreaty and for their confessions famous in the Church the rigour of discipline might be suspended mitigated or determined and they without more adoe be restored vnto the Church Against this custome in breach of discipline Tertullian and especially Cyprian inueigh most bitterly So then take your choyce either these Fathers cannot be seene to affirme for your purpose or if so auoide it if you can your pardons at the first arising vp in the Church were but abuses and as such resisted exclaimed on condemned as irregular and as impious by the Fathers of those times Tertullian and especially Cyprian and so you haue spun a faire threed either way As for Pope Vrban the second make you merry with him much good may his plenary indulgence for the Holy-Land warre and voyage doe you Aske my fellow if I be a thiefe Vrban graunted such Indulgence I confesse So did Gregorie the seauenth his next Predecessor but one first take vpon him to depose Princes and dispose of their Kingdomes by Apostaticall authoritie No man heard of the one before Gregorie nor of the other before Vrban The eldest aboue 1000. yeares after Christ Vrban the eight that now Popeth it may proclaime a Croisado if hee will and iustifie his fact as well as any other but the true reason holdeth not now The World is growne wiser and men loue money too well to be so cheated of it as their fore fathers were to emptie their owne and fill the Popes Coffers by Croisado cousonages But what a Bayard is this to shew such blockish Ignorance being an vndertaker and that with some contumely against the whole Nation of Protestants Wee are told it was Anno Christi 160. as if there were any Holy warres in those times when as Vrban the first if hee were then borne yet certainely was not Pope many yeares after till 224. aboue 60. yeares betweene As for Vrban the second hee sate in Anno 1088. A foule ouer sight in such an vndertaker for the gagging of all Protestants mouthes for euer But somewhat there was in it that the Cat wincked when both her eyes were out Some wiser more learned and skilfull than himselfe had obserued it seemeth that Vrban the second Founder of these pardons was the 160. Pope in order from Saint Peter and this poore Ignaro meaning well to the Cause to aduance the credite thereof by antique vse thought it had bin a thing so auncient as the yeare 160. at least best to vse a Catholique tricke of piae fraudis to let it goe so For honest good Catholiques must belieue what their Instructors say though they teach that the Snow is blacke so are they hood-wincked in implicite Faith And as for Heretiques no matter if they spie it or what they say poore mis-led Proselites either reade not their answeres good cause why or if they reade them will not belieue them though neuer so plaine and euident Therefore Quicquid in buccam these men may say and write any thing no matter what XIIII That the Actions and Passions of Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church MEntiris furcifer a leude lye in imputation of flat impiety They serue for nothing those worthies of Dauid those mightie men of Warre Holy Saint Stephen and his Arriere-ban of valiant Aduenturers in the cause of Christ Iesus that in life and death haue so glorified God and set vp that bloudy banner of our Redemption displayed on the battlements of Death and Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Indeede this was the power of that omnipotent God not to be vttered by the tongue of men which did so inable them vnto such performings saith Iustine himselfe one of that Societie They are our Crowne and our exceeding great reioycing We boast of them and of their noble acts wee commemorate their worths in our common seruice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 said Nazianzen I take it or Basil one of the two and wee take vp that saying whose soeuer it was In doing them honour we delight exceedingly We triumph in the bloud they haue shed for our Sauiour Their acts were recorded for imitation that considering their Precedents and worthy performings wee might be incouraged to follow their example 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As springing Wels they supply vs continually saith Clemens Alexandrinus What doe they supply vs with all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with commonifaction to shew our selues religious louers of God though with shedding of our bloud To shew forth our Faith with losse of our liues Witnesses they are so is their name Martyres for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to witnesse Credendorum agendorum sustinendorum recipiendorum Of things to be belieued performed indured receiued saith Bonauenture And are these for nothing vnto the Church Did euer any Protestant say or thinke so
of these Holy Saints of God For shame speake truth and shame the Deuill the Father of lyes and such lying Libellers as our Gagger But belike it is for nothing which is not for your purpose And therefore whatsoeuer Protestants doe thinke and teach and esteeme of the life and actions the death and Passions of those holy Saints of Christ it is nothing because that they build not vp thence a Magazin nor store-house for the Church nor supply other mens defects by their superfluities that the Holy Father may thereby mugle men and fill his 〈◊〉 coffers by lifting law A thing so improbable for that fained treasury that as Bellarmine confesseth some of the Schoolemen as Maironis and Durand haue not approued it Which they durst not haue done had Saint Paul beene of that minde and tendred that Doctrine Colos 1. 24. I reioyce in my sufferings for you and fill vp that which is behinde you reade wanting and reade so if you list of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his bodies sake which is the Church Whence if you say true the ground of Indulgences hath euer beene And you meane since there were Indulgences heard off For the time was in the Protestants opinion at least that no such thing was in being which yet I maruaile much it so should be and that many writing of that argument haue not so much as dreamed thereof and many no Protestants expound it otherwise Osorius a Iesuite in his Sermons saith Quid deest passioni Christi nisi vt nos similia patiamur What can be wanting to the suffering of Christ but onely this that wee in like sort suffer with him Paul suffered much indured much yet was hee not perfect if himselfe say true and for the Church of Christ to giue them example to strengthen and confirme them in what they had receiued from him filled vp the measure appointed for him in conformitie to the sufferings of Christ Iesus Barradas another of that same Society Tom. 3. vpon the Gospels Quod ad sufficientiam attinet nihil deerat passioni Cruci Christi The Crosse and sufferings of Christ were all sufficiency and that way naught wanted vnto his passion Vt tamen efficax esâ—et Crux app 〈…〉 tio praedicatio laboribus plena deerat Ideo Paulus â—it se adimplere quae desunt passionum Christi quia per multos labores Euangelium gentibus praedicabat And yet to make the Crosse and sufferings of Christ effectuall there wanted application of it by Preaching A thing laborious and exceding painefull For which cause Paul saith that hee filleth vp or supplyeth if you will that which was wanting vnto the sufferings of Christ for as much as with great paynes hee preached the Gospell vnto the Gentiles Differences there may be amongst Interpreters but none not partialists take it so as to make vp a Store-house for the Church out of Christs sufferings supplied by Saint Paul For so it must be admit this Magazin and we must admit a supply a supply is not but vpon insufficiency Can a man without blasphemie babble thus Christs imperfect a d insufficient sufferings were made vp and supplyed by Saint Paul In the merits of Christ there are no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comming short remaines or as you will call them wants For if so I say no more but how can your selfe call them superabundant as you doe and as they are The Text should speake expressely if you kept your wo 〈…〉 for making vp a store for the Church in time of need which is so farre from expressely doing that as that not obscurely it insinuateth what you pretend no not in the interpretations of no Babes vpon your owne partie Iesuites of note and learning Philip. 2. 30. Because for the worke of Christ he was nigh vnto death not regarding his owne life to supply your lacke Epaphroditus is the man there spoken of a faithfull seruant of Christ in the worke of the ministery who with the hazard of his owne life puts himselfe to doe seruice vnto the Church of God This is the commendation Saint Paul giueth of him Your inference is Hee did more than hee needed to haue done for who required any such seruice at his hand as this Hee might haue kept himselfe close and warme at home and haue slept if hee would in an whole skinne This is your good wholesome Catholique Doctrine For the benefit accruing out of the actions and Passions of Saints is to make vp the treasure of the Church out of workes supererogated by them when they doe more than God requireth As for instance when the Virgin Mary without not onely actuall sinnes mortall veniall in your opinion but also originall as not conceiued in them suffered yet much which was not due to her because all sufferings are the wages of Sinne as when martyrs suffer more or greater torments than can in iustice be exacted of them though God should enter into iudgment with them and deale with them in the rigour of his iustice So Epaphroditus sicke vnto death indu 〈◊〉 that which in no case was his deseruing or due vnto him hee indured it therefore for the Philippians sake that through his sufferings they might be saued and haue supply of that which was wanting in the reckoning to the sufferings of Christ as good blasphemy as euer was vttered by any enemy of the Grace of Christ I will abide by it Secondly admit it good Catholique truth yet is it not to purpose true for Epaphroditus was then aliue and vpon recouery aliues-like They are and must be dead that bring in their shot to make vp that masse of treasure for the Church and good cause why For though then at present hee had enough at home and also spare to serue others turnes yet wisdome would hee should not be too lauish or profuse for happely hee might haue neede thereof himselfe For your Doctrine also is Hee that standeth may fall No man is sure of his Saluation therefore well is it prouided though you regard it not or know it not that your store is not to be augmented till men are dead Thirdly in your owne construction and learning this Text of Saint Paul will doe you no good For in poynt of supply for Pardons and Indulgences from the Actions and Passions of Saints you admit not of merits but onely satisfactions Now this text serueth if at all for any thing to any purpose for merit and not for satisfaction Lastly you play the Catholique knaue in plaine termes a man may call a spade a spade and him a knaue that so deserueth it For you will conuict vs by our owne Bibles Now in our Bibles wee reade thus Because for the worke of Christ hee was nigh vnto death not regarding his life to supply your lacke of seruice towards mee You cut off these words of seruice towards mee and set vp your rest vpon to supply your lacke as if the defects of the Philippians
bono morali and no more It may tend to Piety I grant but it is not intentione primâ and directly it is onely occasionally as else-where 1 Cor. 9. Am I not free or Acts 5. Was it not in thy Power That of Deuter. 30. 19. is more to purpose I call Heauen and Earth this day to record against you that I haue set before you life and death blessing and cursing therefore choose life that both thou and thy seede may liue For this is directly in point of Piety and performance of duty immediate vnto God Neither was it spoken to men according to generall notion of them and their generall state in case of alienation from God in state of Nature onely and Naturall endowments of which it is consented I thinke They cannot choose life but to men preuented by Grace called to Life assisted with much and many concurrances of Grace This is not contrary to our Tenent as is plaine in the Article before alleaged That of Ioshua 24. 15. is to the same purpose almost in the very same words one answere will serue to both The Article denieth free-will quoad points of Pietie to mere naturall men onely in the state of deprauation but auoucheth it in state of Grace with concurrence of Assistance Ecclesiasticus 15. 14. is not to purpose The wise man speaketh of what was not what is in the state of innocency before the fall not of deprauation being falne God from the beginning made man and left him in the hand of his owne counsell In 2 Sam. 12. I finde not for freewill but onely this Verse 17. that Dauid would not eate meate but refused it which place if ignorantly alledged proueth this fellow as hee hath beene discouered often a plaine blunderer if with aduise a shamelesse slanderer that would impute vnto Protestants such a sencelesse assertion that man had not free-will to eate if hee would for such is the inference vpon that allegation In Matth. 23. 37. There is an opposition of mans wilfulnesse vnto Gods will God would haue called Iudah Iudah would not therefore freely men renounce the calling of Grace and freely runne themselues without any absolute irreuersible decree vpon Perdition which I graunt being the purpose and intent of those succeeding Texts of Scripture with many moe to purpose in Gods Booke How this is done how farre it extendeth I list not to dispute It is for Schooles not for Pulpits searching wits are at stand therein common capacities must not be surcharged with it It is wilfulnesse or more to deny free-will and it is wisdome and truth to deny free-will To deny the being is so And I wish with Scotus in 1. dist 39. that a man so wilfull were well cudgelled vntill hee confessed it stood in mans power to desist from beating him But to giue such an absolute sway to free-will as many doe is little lesse than flat impiety against God against Saint Paul I am sure It is not of him that willeth or him that runneth Truth is in the middle betwixt two extreames euermore and here also What the Fathers teach wee know and where they exceede interpret them gently as you also doe For take them at large and they lauish so farre sometime that your greatest Patrons of free-will dare not ioyne issue with them not as if those worthie lights did any way faile or darkenesse possessed their cleare vnderstandings but being to deale against fatall necessity of the Pagans against impieties of the Manichees to cleare that imputation of belieuing without further enquiry of resolution they extended the power of freewill to the vtmost especially hauing then no cause to feare ante mota certamina Pelagiana there being no Pelagius yet risen vp in the world an enemy of Grace and aduauncer of Nature beyond degrees of power or possibility Thus your selues acknowledge as well as wee and therefore to Irenaeus Tertullian Cyprian Epiphanius and who hath much more to purpose than all the rest together Chrysostome though you name him not because you knew it not and to Augustine also in his former writings it might so be answered that they spake of free-will not in respect of Grace but of Nature yet I will particularly fall in with you to each seuerall Father in his order Irenaeus Lib. 4. cap. 7. hath these words as your Informer C. W. B. setteth them downe Almightie God hath put in man a power of Election as well as he hath done in the Angels And againe cap. 72. If it were not in our power to doe or not to doe these things what cause had the Apostle and long before that our Lord himselfe to giue vs counsell what to doe and from what to abstaine This latter testimony is not in the Gagger His Master hath it and I alledge it to let all Catholiques see what an Ideot this poore animall is C. W. B. hauing produced these two Texts of Irenaeus cited in his Margin lib. 4. cap. 7. and ibid. cap. 72. This goose because hee would not gagge vs too much made choyce of one and wisely too for by errour of the Printer it was put cap. 7. in which Chapter is nothing to purpose not a word of Angels or of free-will whereas it should haue beene cap. 71. Which hee not knowing because hee hath all by retaile a poore fellow that I thinke knoweth not who Irenaeus was followed the errour of the Printer and so sent vs to see nothing there But let him passe To the place I answere Irenaeus attributeth vnto man as hee may free-will before and after his fall but so after as with Grace to men in state of Grace The discourse is long and to purpose but mis-alledged heere and mis-applyed by the Gagger Epiphanius how commeth hee in betwixt Irenaeus and Tertullian being so much younger than eyther of them especially rightly disposed in the Instructor Howsoeuer I answere that hee there disputeth against the Pharises one of whose opinions was that all things came to passe through fatal necessity Which being so there can be no choyce nor free-will But experience sheweth and Scripture cleareth it there is free-will therefore fatall necessitie is not at all As true as Gospel Nothing touching vs who graunt it as much as themselues doe that obiect thus vnto vs. Tertullian in his second Booke against Marcion the Chapter you knew not because you were not told for your Instructor had it not It is Chapter V. discourseth thus He proueth against Marcion that God created all things out of goodnesse because hee was good Nor was the fall of man any worke of his at all but to be imputed vnto free-will A power and facultie originally in man according to Gods goodnesse and mans nature and condition Who could not haue deserued well or ill nor haue beene punished or rewarded except hee had beene left vnto his owne choyce and not necessitated vnto either Thus he at large and thus also we Contenting himselfe with the generall being working and
we loue in part not as wee should we keepe his Commandements in part not as we should or would in all But his Commandements are not grieuous What of that Therefore possible to be kept in euery point at all times by any man I deny that For I see no such sequell to be inferred Grieuous is simply or respectiuely In regard of those many incumbrances of Moses Law the Law of Christ Iesus was not grieuous Againe a thing may be weighty and yet not in reputation or esteeme vnto some men who will runne with that weight easily or vndergoe that burthen willingly For to a willing minde what is grieuous though it be impregnable inexpugnable impossible The Heathen man could tell vs that the Romane Legions went often with alacrity vpon that peece of Seruice from whence they knew and were assured they should neuer come off with life Weighty and insupportable are two things Weighty and grieuous are two things To those that loue God nothing is heauy for God not for the thing it selfe but because of Loue which maketh that seeme light which indeed is heauy and giueth men if not actiuity beyond power yet will beyond possibility of Power to doe See more But first heare a reason that interlopeth betwixt these testimonies of holy Writ A reason or two for so it is The first A man is not bound to impossibilities but a man is bound to keepe the Commandements and is lyable to punishment for breach of them I answere It is true no man is tyed to simple Impossibilities where there is no habitude betwixt the termes As to be immortall in this life to flye or walke in the Ayre or on the Waters Such impossibility is not betwixt the Law of God and mans performance Secondly when the Commandements were giuen there was not onely a possibility but ability and sufficiency in man to keepe Gods Law For in effect and substance it was all one Eate and dye with Doe this and liue The particulars were explained in time the Nature of Obligation altered not If since there hath accrued an impossibility of Consequence what is this to that sufficiency which was before when the Law was first giuen and man tyed to Obedience as Adam was Againe it is confessed with Saint Augustine that sinne is not sinne except it be voluntary He that cannot possibly auoid necessity of sinning is iniuriously dealt withall if he be punished for sinning But no man is so necessitated either actiuely in regard of the ouer-awing and determining decree of God vnauoidable vnresistable No man is so necessitated passiuely For as hath beene said betwixt mans Actiue possibility and the Passiue possibility of Gods Law there was at first naturally is and finally shall be a Correspondency If interim stantibus vt nunc impediments incumbrances make it impossible man may thanke himselfe that hath lost his power of performing Now see more and see as little Ecclus. 15. 15. a place twice or thrice alleaged by this Trifler against the Protestants whom hee knoweth not to receiue the Booke as Canonicall and therefore not bound to stand vnto the authority of the same or subscribe vnto the assertion But I quarrell it not I accept the authority and answere it out of the Text. They obserue his Commandements so farre as to doe their best and testifie their good will Which proueth in his opinion rather a defect then any possibility of perfection If thou wilt thou shalt obserue the Commandements and testifie thy good will Ezech. 36. 27. I will put my spirit in the middest of you and will make you to walke in my statutes It is the effect and operation of Gods Spirit to doe this But the Prophet doth not say They shall not stumble nor fall as many walkers doe who yet attaine their iournies end in peace and goe on in their course with commendation The Prophet addeth And you shall keepe my Iudgements and doe them I will take no aduantage vpon the word Iudgements Let it goe for the morall Law of God He keepeth the Law that doth what hee can and hath defects and infirmities pardoned him As Dauid is said to haue done who yet fell foule moe times then one Mathew 11. 30. speaketh of a yoake the same in effect with 1 Iohn 5. 3. That which is not heauy to bee borne is not impossible to be kept but Gods Commandements are not heauy for they are the yoake which Christ saith is easie I answere Christ speaketh not primarily of Gods Commandements there but of the Polity of Grace in the Gospell of Peace in regard of the Polity of the Law to which hee preferreth it as easier and lesse cumbersome for causes well collected and obserued by Maldonate out of the Fathers You may see other expositions in Iansenius but nothing for your dreame of perfection Againe in this argumentation that which is not heauie to be borne is not impossible to be kept the Proposition is absolutely false For it is iugum though dulce as feathers are onus though alleuians as wheeles though cause of motion vnto a Coach Matthew 19. 17. Is not to purpose The question is not whether To keepe Gods Commandements be the ready way and means to enter into life that Scripture saith so and Protestants approue it for them that can doe it But whether no man otherwise entreth into life whether euery one that entreth into life hath personally kept Gods Commandements whether it be possible for them to doe it This Protestants deny This that Scripture saith not Againe it is not heere proposed as a condition vnto him but as a Conuiction who came in the vanitie of his minde trusting in his owne worth And is proposed as a necessary implication of the Law vnto him who was a Lawyer by Profession and proposed his question onely De faciendis the Tenor of the Law not de credendis the Tenet of the Gospell And doubtlesse if Saluation be sought by onely doing the workes of the Law must needes be done But how doth this follow if those that seeke Saluation by their owne worke must be put ouer to performe the workes of the Law therefore all men must precisely keepe the law the foolish presumption of some foole hardy vndertaker is no preiudice vnto wiser men Nor tye for them to venture on the same follies Iohn 14. 15. If you loue mee keepe my Commandements And adde if you will in the same Chapter If any man loue mee hee will keepe my word And Chapter 15. If you keepe my Commandements you abide in my loue All which and others of that Nature proue this Gods Commandements must be kept they conclude not the manner and measure of the thing How wherein how farre they may be kept Secondly I answere out of Iansenius Christ doth not vnderstand the whole Law of God but some part of the Law of the New Testament ea scilicet quae modo tradidi of Faith in mee and Loue amongst your selues Nor doth our
Booke against the Pelagians who pleaded then as our Romane Catholiques doe now hath these words God hath commanded things possible No man doubteth Possible in themselues absolutely though not to vs as the Case now standeth respectiuely Possible vnto vs when they were first commanded though not so possible since the commandement For God made man right and gaue him a Law Since that hee hath intangled himselfe many wayes Possible now in part though not in all to some men albeit not generally vnto all It plainly appeareth what Hierome meant for he addeth Sed quia homines possibilia non faciunt idcircò omnis mundus subditus est Deo indiget misericordiâ eius But because men doe not that which of it selfe is possible therefore all the World is subiected vnto God and standeth in neede of his mercy So that hee explaineth his owne meaning They were possible in themselues though not possible vnto man Secondly some things possible at some time to some men though not to all men at all times And so is that to be vnderstood which Bellarmine hath out of the same Hierome in Mat. 5. omitted by this Collector because not found in his good Founder C. W. B. Multi praecepta Dei imbecillitate suâ non Sanctorum viribus aestimantes putant esse impossibilia quae praecepta sunt to wit those Precepts explained vpon the Law Loue your enemies Doe good to those that hate you Et dicunt sufficere virtutibus non edisse inimicos Caeterum Diligere plus praecipi quam humana Natura patiatur Sciendum est ergo Christum non impossibilia praecipere sed perfecta Quae fecit Dauid in Saul Absolon Stephanus quoque Martyr pro inimicis lapidantibus deprecatus est Many men measuring the Commandements of God not by the performings of Saints but their owne weaknesse account things impossible by God commanded and account it enough for a vertuous man not to hate his enemies As for that To loue them it is a Precept beyond humane possibility But wee must know Christ commanded not impossible but perfect things Such as Dauid did in Saul and towards Absolon And that blessed Martyr Stephen prayed for them that stoned him So it is not obscure what the Fathers meant by that It is possible to keepe the Lâ—w. In it selfe not impossible At some times not impossible In part not impossible they neuer came to this presumption Any man at any time All the Law Therefore Iustine Martyr against Tryphon saith vpon that Text Cursed is euery one that doth not obserue all the Precepts of the Law to doe them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Your selues dare not say it and what the Iewes durst not say you dare sweare that any man hath perfectly kept them all But there are that haue obserued some more some lesse in those things that were commanded I grant with Hierome Lib. 2. c. Pelagian That many men haue liued iust and righteous But I doe not grant that euer any man was without sinne Sine omni autem peccato fuisse omnino non assentior If any man imagine hee hath obtained that perfection Aut superbus aut stultus est He is no letter then a proud foole All that I can challenge in the height of my perfection is but onely that of Saint Augustine Meritum meum misericordia Domini The mercies of the most high are my merits Therefore wee professe with earnest deprecation Enter not into iudgement with thy seruants O Lord For in thy sight shall no flesh be iustified And If thou shalt be seuere to marke what is done amisse who O Lord shall endure it Iob neuer aduanced his perfection to the fulfilling of all that God commanded though 27. 6. he vseth those words in your Translation Non reprehendit me Cor meum My heart hath not reproued me all my dayes For his meaning is As long as I liue I will maintaine my Innocency that I haue not dissembled in my heart This I will stand to euerlastingly and not betray my owne Cause Otherwise as Saint Gregory hath obserued here Se peâ—cesse superius accusat He hath formerly accused himselfe of sinne Nor doth God excuse him from all breach of the Commandement who giueth him that Testimony 1. 22. Ioh did not sinne For it is limited In all this and yet not sinne in that sort as to Charge God with iniustice Sciendum est We are to know saith Gregory that there are some kinde of sinnes which the righteous men canauoid and there are sinnes which the most righteous cannot auoid If sins then needs against some Commandement For no Sinne but is a Transgression of the Law If against the Law then the Law is not kept in doing them and if the most Righteous cannot but doe them surely the most Righteous cannot keepe the Law This was once the Doctrine of the Romane Church For Gregory hath it that was Bishop of Rome in his Morals Lib. 27. and 7 Chapter vpon Iob. Hath that Church then left her ancient Faith XVII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation COntrouersies are sometime multiplied vnnecessarily by these Romance Catholiques to iangle the more and sometime hudled vp by confounding many to deceiue the more as in this present Question of Faith iustifying a great Controuersie And workes concurring as maine a diuersity vnto Saluation Though distinction of parts be fit to teach and giueth life and lustre vnto discourse yet seeing it hath pleased this fellow to confound these two we must goe on with him in his wild-goose race vp and downe To iustifie is a word of Christian learning onely yet taken and deriued from externall Courts and iudiciary proceedings in Cases of Accusation and Defence In which regard it hath a three-fold extent vpon a three-fold seuerall act First to make iust and righteous Secondly to make more iust and righteous Thirdly to declare and pronounce iust and righteous Not exactly obserued in humane Courts I grant For no Iudge can make a man what he is not he can finde him what he is and make him appeare so more and more by euidence and at last declare him and pronounce him so by publike sentence of absolution But for those three seuerall acts in the iustification of a Sinner the Scripture plainely it cannot be denied doth distinguish them thus Rom. 4. 5. He that belieueth in him that iustifieth the vngodly Augustine vpon the 30. Psalme expoundeth it thus Who is it that iustifieth the Wicked Hee that of a wicked man maketh a righteous So Rom. 3. 20. 24. and 1 Cor. 6. 11. For there is a two-fold state of man in this world The one Originall as he is conceiued and borne in sinne and accordingly produceth in life and actions the cursed workes of a bitter roote The other Acquisite renewed according to the Spirit vnto the state of perfection with God Of Nature wherein Of Grace whereto In Nature there is nothing cleane or pure that
peccare nequid 〈…〉 deterius fiat Salomon denique Saul caeteri multi quam diu in vijs Domini ambulauerunt datam sibi gratiam tenere potuerunt recedente ab ijs disciplinâ Dominica recessit gratia Goulartius here talketh to no purpose in the Cloudes totally or finally it skilleth not the Grace of God departed away from them therefore they lost their Faith in Saint Cyprians iudgement by which they stood at first in Gods fauour And in Nazianzens too who writeth thus of Saul in his Apologie vnto his Father Pag. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Annoynted hee was and made partaker of the holy Spirit and then at that time was Spirituall I dare not speake otherwise of him Nay more then so hee prophecyed And yet for all that because hee suffered not himselfe to be wholy and entirely directed by the Spirit nor became perfectly and sincerely another man what neede I relate the Tragicall end which hee vnder-went Saint Hierome forsaketh not his Masters direction Lib. 2. aduersus Pelagianos Ne beatum dixeris quempiam ante mortem Quamdiù enim viuimus in certamine sumus quamdiù in certamine nulla est certa victoria Call no man happy vntill he be dead So long as we liue wee are to striue and contend so long as there is opposition against vs so long we are not assured of the victory And else-where against Iouinian he teacheth that vntill a man repent Faith is cast off by sinne and the party in disfauour with God Saint Augustine proposeth it as an Article of his Creede de Corrept gratiâ 13. Credendum est quosdam de filijs perditionis non accepto dono perseuer andi vsque in finem in fide quae per dilectionem operatur incipere viuere aliquandiù fideliter iustè viuere posteà cadere neque de hac vitâ priusquam eis id contingat auferri And againe Ad quam vocationem pertinere nullus est homo ab hominibus certâ asseueratione dicendus nisi cum de hoc saecule exierit In hac autem vitâ humanâ quae tentatio est super terram qui videtur stare videat ne cadat And lastly Gregory Lib. 6. in primum Regum Quia Iudicium omnipotentis Dei imperscrutabile est vnde veniat quo vadat homo nescit quia sciri non potest an quis in gratia quam recepit perseuerare in perpetuum debeat Because the Iudgements of GOD Almighty are vnsearchable man doth not know either whence hee commeth or whether hee goeth because it cannot be knowne whether a man shall euer stand without falling in that Grace which hee hath receiued It was a Stoicall paradox grounded vpon their fatall necessity and concatenation of Causes that vertues once had cannot be lost at all Seneca thus in his 50 Epistle Semel tradidi boni possessio perpetua est Non dediscitur virtus Fideliter sedent quae in locum suum veniunt Good once had is held for euer in possession Vertue is not againe to bee learned For what thing soeuer hath obtained the proper place resteth therein without alteration If any such necessity be inferred by any it is but opinion not decision priuate opinion not publique resolution which a man may follow or abandon at pleasure not to be blamed for resolution So or so In course of Christianity and seruice of God Finis coronat actus It is the end that crowneth the Act. In mans profession of Loue Feare and Obedience of God Nilâ—praesumitur esse actum dum restat aliquid ad agendum The Law presumeth nothing at all is done so long as resteth any thing to be done Non quid egeris sed quid supersit curandum si dixisti Sufficit Defecisti It is not respected what is already performed by them but what remaineth yet vnfinished If thou say it is enough thou art fallen off and faintest For Leuit 22. Euer the tayle of the whole burnt Offering was offered Many begin to build but doe not all set vp the roofe Many thousands came out of Aegypt but few of them passed ouer Iordan Asa was good till the goâ—te vexed him Ionathan followed the Chace till hee met with Honey Many are good till they haue cause to be badde and then vertunt omnia ad extremum They end in the flesh that begun in the Spirit The Conclusion of all is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A man is not happy so long as hee liueth because it is vncertaine what shall become of him saith Saint Basil vpon the first Psalme These are the resolutions of many if not most Protestant Diuines as priuate men of Protestant Churches in their Decisions and Resolutions I am sure the Church of England doth not tender it to be taught or belieued that Faith had cannot be lost againe Priuate opinions of men are no Gospels of the Church I am of this opinion another is of that I maintaine Faith cannot be lost totally or finally another verily perswadeth himselfe it may be lost both totally and finally Hee that once was in regard of iustifying Faith and Grace the Childe of God may become the Childe of Sinne Wrath Death Hell and Destruction to neither of these doe I subscribe as de fide being vndecided vndetermined in the Church Lei euery man abound in his owne sense and vnderstanding what is it to mee so be it hee keepe Faith Peace Charitie and a good Conscience The very Church of Geneua it selfe as I was told by one of the chiefe Ministers thereof doth not maintaine these priuate opinions of the principall Pastors of that Church So that what honesty can there be in this rambling Companion who ranketh it with the Errours of the Protestants That Faith had cannot be lost Which if it were an errour as I dispute not that is as much or more opposed by Protestants as propugned As much refelled by Protestants as Papists Sir Gagger to let the World see your ignorance or impudency or both I haue laide these parts together out of Protestant Diuines I iustifie no priuate opinions Those that hold the one or other are old enough let them answere for themselues And so I proceede XXI That God by his will ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall bee damned and who saued DAmned and Saued diuide Mankinde Not any hath come forth of the loins of Adam but as this Gaggler will himself confesse is necessarily ranged in one of these Ranks either with the Damned or the Saued Sheep or Goats vpon the left hand or the right But he whosoeuer that is é censa damnandorum vel saluandorum finally and eternally damned or saued as one day actiuely all shall bee is so damned or saued not without God's will according to the purpose of his decree at least consequent though not antecedent who doth whatsoeuer hee will in heauen and earth who worketh all things according to the counsell of his will the highest Rule supremest Law nothing
Augustine of your owne And doo you mark it that I say your owne for this Saint Augustine is none of mine It is ser 29. in which this passage is not 39 as you mis-report it which is a Counterfet vnder S. Austen's name as the Louanists and other your owne men obserue There is a Commemoration of Saint Peter ' s chain you keep an Holi-day in memory thereof Augusti 1 and yet Saint Peter ' s Chain as Baronius obserueth was not found vntill Saint Augustine was dead Had the man been as he would seem Saint Augustine yet might hee haue been deceiued in his collection as wel as in somewhat else noted by Lorinus that hither tendeth For de Catechis rudib 23. he deliuereth that The shadow of Saint Peter passing along in the streets restored a dead man to life Do you finde this written in your Bibles I suppose not S. Augustine did without doubt in his or how is it that he saith it Therfore the Papists Bible hath left something out aswell as the Protestants Look vnto it and answer it as you can Acts 19. 11 12. And God wrought speciall miracles by the hands of Paul so that from his body were brought vnto the sick handkerchiefs and aprons and the diseases departed from them and the euill spirits went out of them Therfore what Vertue proceeded from Saint Paul when he was dead I deny that for Saint Paul was then aliue and aliues like Therefore this is for the liuing not the dead And yet take mee not so that I deny the thing Vertue may proceed from the true Saints of God dead and aliue I deny your proof and wonder at your wit that can go ab equis ad asinâ—s so easily as if both were fit Inmates for such an Animal as your self Asse Horse you for such prouender S. Chrysostome might very well inferre vpon the passages of Saint Peter and Saint Paul that Christ their Lord and Master was truely God whose seruants in his Name and by his Power nay their shadows and napkins did such wonders for Could any man do so except God were with him But all this winde shakes no corn First this vertue was not inherent onely incident Secondly it was miraculous so peculiar Thirdly it was Then those Times are done those napkins gone into Materia prima Shew such napkins or shadows and wee yeeld For no man doubteth what hath been done or may be done we go no further than to what is See more you so direct vs and wee had need or else we shall see your proofs by halues for hitherto wee haue onely heard of vertue proceeding from the Dead nothing touching keeping of Bones and Reliques Now haue at them or else neuer and indeed neuer for Ioseph's bones were carried by Moses out of Egypt What then Therefore bones of holy men may by warrant of that be digged vp shrined and preserued Happely they may in some cases but not therefore for this was a singular Fact which are no precedents for generall rules One Swallow maketh not Summer nor one Woodcock Winter but among Birds of that Bill and Feather Secondly as it was singular in Fact so speciall in Reason There was a Tie vpon Israel to doo that which they did Ioseph dying had bound them with an oath to do so Had our Lady so bound you for her smock or her milk you were excused Thirdly they carried them thence not to keep them which is your Tenet much less to shrine them or adore them which is your practice but to bury them in the Land of Canaan which they did Ios 24. 32. Doo you in like sort and wee applaud you with your Reliques So we see in this first place no more than wee looked for nothing to purpose nor in the second 2. Reg. 4. 8. Eliseus taketh vp Elias cloak that fell from him and wrapping it together smote the waters of Iordane which parted asunder A Text seeming to say somewhat for Elias cloak is Relictum a Relique to Eliseus and he took it But this is verse 14. not 8. but not yet a Relick for our purpose For what he did with it is not remembred it is like enough Eliseus wore it out We read not what he did with it whether he laid it vp and left it to posterity to be adored vnless you can prooue this you say nothing otherwise in your sense it is no Relique For keeping and adoring is all in all for them But let it be kept Eliseus did no more than I or any Protestant else should haue done For you mistake vs. The Reliques of Saints are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with vs we dishonour not their garments much lesse their bodies hauing beene the Temples of the holy Ghost beeing againe to bee raised from the dust and be made like Christs glorious body By and in them at sundry times God hath miraculously magnified himselfe in his Power as when the body of Babylas made the Oracle mute in despight of Iulian that Renegado Then especially when there was great cause when Paganisme Persecution Opposition swayed for the manifestation of that Truth which in them by them had beene propagated Shew any such Relique and see what wee say vnto it It is naturall for any man to affect the remembrance or memorials of a friend to admire and make much of rare things not euery day seene Bring mee then a piece of the Crosse of our Sauiour one of the Nailes or some such memoriall of his Passion shew mee Moses Râ—d Saint Peter's Sword I will prize them aboue all the Iewels I can haue Will this content you I know no Protestant will doe lesse then so Worship them I dare not Shew them as you doe I would not as men do monsters in Fleet-street or Sturbridge Faire in this you abuse them too profanely making merchandize of the Word of God In that you profane them to Idolatry misleading the People to adore them This did not Antiquity nor doe wee In the Primitiue Church Memoriae Martyrum were in great esteem The place where they suffred or else where they were buried Heere commonly their Church-meetings were for diuine Seruice for receiuing the Sacraments with commemoration of their Passion and a collation to follow their noble Acts which was seconded with this opinion that those blessed Soules themselues by speciall grace and dispensation of God took notice of that generall Act of the whole Church and accompanied their deuotions with their own best assistance vnto the Maiesty of Heauen But times are changed mens manners altred Those Saints Reliques Memories and Oratories of the true Saints of God gon no where to be found coozening colluding fraud impiety come in place The miracles memories reliques of Saints in your Romane Church are all of them knowne to bee iuggling tricks of deceiuing knaues and if Saint Martin were aliue againe hee might finde out onely one mans Reliques but many thousands to bee the bones of theirs that died at the
gallowes for their sinnes nor of Martyrs that shed their bloud for Iesus Talk not then of Reliques and keeping of them but shew vs the Reliques true ones indeed and then blame vs if wee respect them not as Augustine or Ambrose or any antient Fathers did See your Fathers I need not I haue seene them often before euer I saw C. W. B. your good Benefactor whose scroles you haue filched euery where yet lest it bee thought there is some stuffe to bee seene which wee dare not set out to view the Reader shall see them if hee will bee so idle and haue so much leasure Eusebius in the seauenth booke and fifteenth Chapter relateth that the chaire of Saint Iames brother to our Lord and first Bishop of Ierusalem was kept preserued by his successors And what if Eusebius write thus it is no such great wonder for a chaire to last 300 yeeres in keeping of it I know no hurt or impiety as I doe in your Lipsanolatria For Eusebius doth not say that they worshipped it or that any vertue went out of it Though if you haue read the place as I thinke you neuer did you may remember that Eusebius there saith It was a custome taken vp from the Pagans as it was indeed and can demonstrate if need be But I take no exception at that originall as you would doe with vs for much lesse aduantage Onely this I adde It was no bone or Relique of Saint nor had any vertue issuing from it and therefore not to bee remembred heere Athanasius in the life of Saint Antony hath many passages the work is of some reasonable length Now what shall we see therein or whereabout you know not for C. W. B. did not informe you and you poore man are not so well prouided at home But well fare Bellarmine who would haue told you had you consulted him Hee doth informe vs who otherwise mought haue sought a needle in a bottle of hay and haue giuen the hay to this beast for prouender Saint Antony dying bequeathed his cloake vnto a friend the Legate accepteth it very kindely an example of kindnes giuen and taken no more If Saint Antony could haue giuen more he would haue done it had hee giuen lesse the Party would haue taken it It is not said He receiued it so as hee layd it vp kept it amongst his Iewels and plate Which if he did what is that to Protestants not adoring reliques did the man make an Idoll of his cloke did there any vertue come from that cloke If I knew you were acquainted with you I would bequeath a Cockscombe to you and you would lay it vp happly for a Relique for such fooles to adore Saint Basil in Psal 115. what doth hee say You know not for you were not told Let me help you Vpon those words Right deare in the sight of the Lord is the death of his Saints he dilateth touching the Persons and Passions of blessed Martyrs preferreth them before Garlands Iewels and precious stones opposeth the state of the time of Grace vnto that of the Lawe Then it was not lawfull to touch a dead body but hee that touched it was vncleane But now saith hee Hee that toucheth the bones of a Martyr somewhat partaketh of sanctifying power by that Grace which assisteth the body This was true in those times but those Martyrs are not those bodies are gone that grace is neither diffused nor effused at this day It was of that grace which then wrought wonders now no where to bee found your pretended Martyrs are scarce Christians some few good Christians your relicks impostures your miracles iuggling tricks lewd lies and forgeries Prooue them otherwise wee will doe as they did and giue them the respect Saint Basil did So wee answer you for Chrysostome and for Ambrose let the case bee the same which then it was our affections euery way shal be the same with theirs But those daies are done those Worthies gone impostors are euery where in euery corner In regard of these Iugglers and not with reference to the Heroick times I say with Tatian If God had made them hee speaketh of charmes and amulets to the purpose that men employ them hee should haue beene the Author of some euill But all things that God made were very good the diuell in his insolency rioting vpon them hath conuerted them vnto all purposes From him came first this euill custome with you in adoring you cannot tell what it neuer was the worke of the Perfect God For how is it or can it bee that while I liue I doe no hurt but beeing dead some piece some relique of my selfe without sense or feeling which can doe nothing which serueth not at all no more then I doe should operate or effect any thing How can hee that hath beene hanged himselfe possibly saue another from the gallowes or how can a bone of him that died of a fearfull disease deliuer another from the same Sir I beleeue Tatianus did prophecy so long agoe so graphicially doth he describe the impostures of your Romish Mountebanks in applying the Reliques and â—owzie fragments of Knaues Rake-hels and Traitors vnto I know not what wonder-working tricks of Leiger-de-maine XXXII That the Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne nature VNtill I had read ouer the whole passage and came at last to holy bread holy water holy ashes and the like trash and Mountebank wares I marueiled I confesse what this man meant by his position The Creature caÌ„not be sanctified c. For I know no Protestant but willingly acknowledgeth the Separation and Sanctification of the creature vnto diuine religious and holy vses I was sure our Church maintained and many waies practised the contrary there I found my error and so perceiued what the foole meant and whither the blind Buzzard did direct his groping that made boyes to laugh and hooâ— at him That the Creatures of God are good we beleeue as proceeding from a totall cause absolutely good that nothing ought to be refused as 1. Tim. 4. 4. if it be receiued with Thanksgiuing you rather deny then wee That the Word of God and Prayer doth sanctifie the creature to the seueral vses we profess willingly and practise it accordingly in all our courses Mat. 23. 17. we read subscribe that the Temple the seat of Gods Presence the House for his Seruice sanctified the gold employed in the Temple as beeing put vnto a religious vse That the Altar did sanctifie the Sacrifices offred vpon the Altar But if the Calues of Bethel had been placed in the Temple had they been sanctified vnto God by beeing in the Temple The Altar doth sanctifie the gift but so that it bee a gift for the Altar If a Dogge or a Cat were offred there it would bee no more holy or sanctified then the abomination was of desolation which was set vp in the Holy Place It is not the place that
maketh them better Purgatory is not so it is penall onely There is no merit in Purgatory soules cannot sinne nor deserue there in the resolution of your owne men Secondly the fire which Saint Augustine meaneth doth then in his opinion performe that office when the sheepe are separated from the goates that is when your Purgatory in your owne opinions is no more for euer Thus the ordinary Glosse vnderstood Saint Augustine Wee read saith the Glosse of two fires that shall come The one eternall which eternally shall torment the reprobate This fire is to insue the Iudgement The other fire shall goe before which shall burne vp the surface of this world and shall amend them that haue builded wood hay and stubble But such as haue builded gold siluer end precious stones shal be secure safe from eyther fire And in like sort doth Salmeron conceiue of Saint Augustine and Augustine could not meane your Purgatory in Saint Paul For such as build gold c. come not within your Verge at all but into Saint Paul's Fires as saith Saint Augustine commeth both one and other Ignis de quo locutus est eo loco Apostolus Paulus 〈◊〉 debet intelligi vt ambo per cum transeant id est et qui aedificat supra hoc fundamentum aurum c. et qui aedificat lignum c. Lastly Saint Gregory doth explicate this very place of Purgatory Dial. 4. and to help you out for you could not tell Cap. 39. sed tamen are his words de quibusdam leuibus culpis esse ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est And to this sense hee saith that Text of the Apostle may be applied But Sir Gagger this Gregory the Author of the Dialogues is no authenticall writer with mee I doe not hold him for the man whose name hee beareth But at this time I will not question him for your sake though I owe you little Hee telleth vs of a purging fire Good but euery purging fire is not that you dreame of which hath made the Popes Kitchin smoke so much heeretofore Saint Augustine acknowledgeth another so do many of your owne men And this of Saint Gregory is no other then that of Fire which goeth before the Iudge Ante iudicium saith your Author which wee deny not and helpeth you nothing Saint Augustine led Saint Gregory the way Videtur euidentius apparere saith hee in illo iudicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras No such matter then in their opinion for the present Many trying Fires there may bee there are both literall and metaphoricall which will clayme interest in Saint Paul's meaning 1. Cor. 3. 13. before your Purgatory can find admittance there Toby 4. 17. Powre out thy bread vpon the buriall of the iust that is Offer for those which are in Purgatory no doubt For Saint Chrysostome Hom. 32. in Math. vnderstandeth this very place of Purgatory Vnderstandeth And what of that Vnderstanding will not serue our turne we must haue expresse words in our own Bibles for it else Olle quid ad te Purgatory and Buriall are all one with you or Purgatory will not appeare hence As for your warrant from Saint Chrysostome you bely Saint Chrysostome and your Author both I say it because the man you would remember is not Saint Chrysostome but the Author of the Imperfect worke vpon Saint Mathew who indeed was wont to goe vnder Saint Chrysostomes name but is acknowledged by euery Smatterer amongst you not to bee Saint Chrysostome Did you not knowe this I pitty then your case which hath such poore companions for Patrons Did you knowe it the more to blame you that would not distinguish him from Saint Chrysostome who in his 32. Homil. hath not any thing looking that way You might haue beene challenged for forgery euery way had I not found you out as you may for folly or ignorance or dissolute security beeing found out But neither doth your Saint Chrysostome that is the Author specified so vnderstand or talke of the place of Toby For Homil. 26. not 32. vpon 41. verse of the tenth of Mat. hauing expounded these words of Toby not ill telleth vs a tale out of Clemens concerning Saint Peter and this Doctrine deliuered by him out of Tradition Sed audi mysterium c. But heare a secret and mysticall meaning giuen by Saint Peter remembred by Clemens If any beleeuer shall doe a good work it is profitable vnto him in this world by deliuering him from euill and also in the world to come to attaine the Kingdome of heauen rather there in that world than in this But if an vnbeleeuer doe a good worke it will profit him heere by deliuering him from euill and God will returne vnto him good for his worke But in that world to come his work will profit him nothing For neither is hee ranked for that his worke with other beleeuers and that deseruedly because hee did that good out of naturall good motions and not for Gods sake Wherefore hee receiueth his reward both in and for the body not in or for his soule Also if a Christian shall giue vnto no Christian hee shall therefore receiue no great reward because hee gaue it not vnto a Christian nor as vnto a Christian Toby saying Poure out thy wine vpon the sepulchers of the iust and giue nothing vnto the sinner Whoso giueth a little to an vnbelieuer hath his reward but he that giueth any thing to a beleeuer hath a double reward first in as much as hee is Gods Creature secondly because hee is iust before God But whosoeuer giueth vnto an vnbeleeuer hath onely a single reward in as much as the vnbeleeuer is Gods Creature though in will opposite vnto God If a Christian doe receiue no Christian but an Infidel in the name of a Christian haue his reward notwithstanding appointed for him hee shall because as much as lieth in him he receiueth indeed no Christian but as a Christian It was necessary I should as I haue done set downe the whole place at large both that the Pamphleter may direct mee to that passage or those words in which or by which Saint Chrysostome vnderstandeth this place of Purgatory which I professe such is my dulnesse I cannot see nor imagine As also that I might deale vprightly in the cause and sincerely with him that dealeth honestly in nothing and lastly that the Reader may pick out if hee can where or how hee may ground Purgatory or if hee cannot may see and knowe and take notice of a forlorn cause so vpholden by false shews and collusion Finde Purgatory fire or not fire prison or not prison state or not state of the deceased in expiatory torments or pains heer and I will instantly professe and beleeue Purgatory without more adoo 1. Cor. 15. 29. Else what shall they doo which are baptized for the Dead Vpon this Text the Gaggers Glosse is An euident place concerning the succour which the souls
et ordinariâ oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extrinsecus petitiones It was neuer heard of till now that the Lords Prayer should be the onely Prayer a man ought to vse vpon occasion It is a contrary Extreme It was not giuen to be vsed at all The Angels in heauen the soules of the Righteous Christ Iesus in the garden the three children in the fiery furnace vse repetitions of their praiers A sanctis pete perfectis exemplum Vse them a-Gods-name Do as they haue done A good thing cannot be repeated too often I doo not knowe any Puritan will dislike it I haue knowne as great Puritans as any were vse the Lords Praier twice at euery Sermon in the beginning at the end and yet I knowe it was the Puritan opinion at first that The Lords Praier was not so often to bee repeated as it is in our ordinary Seruice T. C. wrote this lib. 1. pa. 136. What reason is this we must repeat the Lords Praier oftentimes therefore oftentimes in half an houre and one in the neck of another Doth your Proposition driue at this Driue a-Gods Name till you driue it down we go with you For it is a singular vpstart nouell Puritan quarrell as infinite other are against the Church in all Ages against the doctrine and discipline of the Church But what is this to Protestants Against Protestants your Gag is directed not Puritans and yet all your addresses well-neer are against Puritan Positions malitiously imputed to Protestants and yet your selues among your selues make a difference betwixt Protestants and Puritans professing If it were not for the Protestant you would not esteem what the Puritan could say and truely For the Protestant commeth vp to you on your owne grounds and vndertaketh you at your own weapons so that you haue no help against him but to bely him with your Proselytes So you began so you continued and so you end this petty Pamphlet For otherwise you may knowe that this very point of often repeating the Lords Praier hath by vs been maintained against Puritan detraction more than by Papists especially by those two Worthies of their time the most reuerend Lord Archbishop Whitgift of blessed memory and that incomparable Hooker concerning whom I may much rather say than of his Works of whom it was said and made by Paulus Thorius Praeter Apostolicas post Christi tempora chartas Huic peperere libro sacula nulla parem In whose words I conclude to this babbler Twice we rehearse it ordinarily and oftner as occasion requireth more solemnity or length in diuine seruice not mistrusting till these new curiosities sprāg vp that euer any man would think our labour heerin mis-spent the time wastfully consumed and the office it self made worse by so repeating that which otherwise would more hardly bee made familiar to the simpler sort for the good of whose Soules there is not in Christian Religion any thing of like continuall vse and force throughout euery houre and moment of their whole liues I meane not onely because Prayer but because this very Prayer is of such efficacy and necessity Know this Sir Gagger that this is our opinion o◠repeating Prayers this our doctrine touching the Lords Prayer repeated or to bee repeated That giddy conceit taken vp by the Puritan faction sometime is none of ours as the faction it self is none of ours no more then Donatists Meletians or Nouatians were antiently the Catholique Church or their fooleries to be imputed to the Church The Factionists would were the innouating humor predominant in them peraduenture prescribe a forme of Religion to Christ Iesus himself were he on earth againe though but to last for a day vnlesse happly they disagreed which fancy should haue precedency For euery Crow thinketh her owne bird fayrer then the neighbours But to conclude with your Fathers that affirme God knoweth what you are to prooue which yet wee desire you not to doe for there is no such neede against vs that It is not superstitious nor yet superfluous to repeat one and the same Prayer oftentimes For this Lactantius is cited lib. 4. de diuinâ institut cap. 28. but might haue beene spared In that Chap. he disputeth against that deriuation which Cicero gaue of superstitiosus That they were called superstitiosi qui totos dies immolabant et precabantur vt sui liberi sibi superstites essent For saith hee Quid mihi afferet causae cur precari pro salute Filiorum semel religiosi et idem decies facere superstitiosi esse hominis arbitretur What reason can Cicero giue mee why it should bee counted religious piety to pray once and superstition to pray often Si enim semel facere optimum est quanto magis saepius Which testimony is direct as may be for praying often but not for saying the said prayer often yet this should be proued not that This is after the Puritan Cut not that Howsoeuer it may touch our Factionists who regard n o Fathers it concerns not vs who respect the one vse the other who profess with the same Lactantius Multiplicata obsequia demerentur potius quam offendunt The next is S. Amb. lib. de Sp. sanct cap. 20. Howsoeuer you haue playd the Idle-pack Addle-head Ignaro or Negligent in the course of your book yet as good Orators in a bad cause lay the strength they haue or can make in the beginning and latter end so should you but who can haue more of a cat then her skinne of a Blunderer then that which is next hand Saint Ambrose wrote three bookes to Gratian the Emperor de spiritu sancto This poore Innocent knew no such matter supposing hee had wrote but one nor caring vnto whom hee wrote it Saint Ambrose lib. de spiritu sancto cap. 20. saith Who can tell what I say Who can tell For the first booke hath 20. Chapters iust in the 20. nothing is that tendeth this way In the second book there are but 12. There can bee nothing in any 20. Chapter there The third hath chapters 23. but nothing touching repetition of Prayers or Prayers at all The truth is beside these bookes there is in some editions another tract without Chapters at all a very very short one de spiritu sancto by some supposed a fourth book to be added vnto the other three by others a seuerall headlesse discourse none of Saint Ambrose doing howsoeuer it be whose-soeuer it should seeme the book which the man would designe For not farre from the end hauing recited that text of Esay 6. Holy holy holy Lord God of Sabbath hee inferreth the custome of the Church for the Trisagium in their ordinary Letany Vnde etiam tractum est per omnes fere Orientales Ecclesias et nonnullas Occidentales vt in oblationibus sacrificiorum quae Deo patri offeruntur vna cum sacerdote voce populus vtatur id est Sanctus sanctus sanctus Dominus Deus