Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n
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A91891
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The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against master John Yates his monopolie / by Iohn Robinson.
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Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing R1696; Thomason E1093_1; ESTC R208638
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39,795
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82
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smother one truth under another For albeit the women of Corinâ—th were become so mannish as that they would prophesiâ— uncovered and withovt their veile the ensigne oâ— their subiection yet doth not the Apostle meddle at all with that malady in this place but in the 11. cha. of the Epistle as himselfe noteth Here and in Tim. he simply forbids the thing there the manner of doing it Likewise for their being as forward to speake as their husbands and in their preâ—ence it may be true in part and in some But what then Doth the Apostle in these places onely forbid their speaking uncouered and permit them to teach so it be veiled or forbids he onely their being as forward as their husbands but gives them leaue to speake in the Church so it be with good manners after their husboÌ„ds which his answer insinuates Or is it not evideÌ„t to all that will not shut their eyes that he simply that severely inhibits them all speaking whatsoever in this exercise Are not the words plain enough Let the women keep silence in the Church for it is not permitted to them to speake but to be under obedience as the Law sayth And againe It is a shame for them to speak in the Church And in 1. Tim Let the women learne in silence with all subiection And I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurpe authority ouer the man but to be in subjection For Adam was first formed c. Do not and every one of the Reasons binde women to all â—eace and deepe silence in the Church yea to such â—d so absolute as that they may not so much as aske question for learning any thing themselues ver. 35. â—uch lesse teach others any thing I therefore conâ—ude this as a most certain and undeniable truth â—â—at the Apostle speakes here of such a gift and exâ—rcise as women are simply forbidden to use in the â—hurch and therefore not of an extraordinary gift â—r exercise which they might use lawfully and did â—oth before and a long time after the writing of this â—pistle His last answer now comes in consideration which â—s that the consiquence is ill women are forbidden and â—herefore men are permitted to prophesie in the Church by â—n ordinary gift If the consiquence seem not good why doth he so strugle as before otherwise to make an escape froÌ„â—he Argument let us coÌ„sider of the force of it which appeareth to me irresistable in these 3. things First the Apostle in and for this worke opposeth the men to the women sex to sex and so in prohibiting women he permits men When the H. Ghost opposing faith and works in the cause of iustification denies that we are iustified by works is not then the consequence good that therefore we are iustified by faith where he opposeth beleevers and vnbeleevers in the â—â—se of Saluation and teacheth that beleevers shall be saued doth he not teach consequently that vnbeleevers shall perish if consequences be not goodâ—â— must confesse my selfe farre to seeke both in Logiâ—â— and Divinity Secondly the reasons of the prohibition of womâ—â— proue the consiquence which are all such as prefeâ—â— the men before the women and subiect the women to the men in the Church and in this very work of prophesie of which he treateth But now if in prohibiting women he gaue not liberty unto men where were the prerogatiue of men aboue women which is the onely ground upon which he buildeth his prohibition Thirdly where verse 34. 35. It is not permitted for women to speak but if they will learn any thing to ask then husbands at home if their husbands might not speake neither nor any more then they what reason can be rendred of the Apostle so speaking Lastly M. Yates in denying this consequence sheweth that so he might deny something he tooke no great heed what it were The Apostle in this whole Chap takes order for some to prophesie and debarring women therefrom either admits men to the use of that liberty or els we must haue some third kinde of persons thought of which are neither male nor female My fourth Argument is from verse 29 and 32. Lâ—â— the prophets speake â—wo or three and let the rest iudgâ— â—nd the spirit of the prophets are subiect to the prophets â—hence I affirm that the Apostle speaks not of exâ—raordinary prophets or prophesying since they in â—heir Doctrine could not erre and so were not subâ—ect to any such iudgment or censure of others He â—nswereth roundly though briefly in this place that â—hese prophets were not infallibly assisted and more largâ—y in another place that such prophets as haue an inâ—allible assistance are noâ— subiect to this Rule but others â—hat had but as the Apostle sayd Rom. 12. 6. meaner â—ifts were to be examined according to the pâ—oportion of â—aith so that extraordinary prophets might mix some of â—heir own with the extraordinary gifts of Gods spirit â—hich was to be censured by such as had a greater meaâ—ure for none are to thinke that all that haâ— thâ—se extraordinary gifts were free from errour in their veâ—y doctrine We see the strange gift of tongues was abused and so â—ight the rest be That one extraordinary Prophet had a greater meaâ—ure and proportion of gifts then another I acknowâ—edge but that any one of them could erre in doctrin or was not infallibly assisted therein by the spirit â— deny as a most pernicious errour weaking the foundation of faith and truth of the word of God neither hath Master Yates so much as enterprised an answer unto the Scriptures brought by me to proue the contrary which were Ephesians 2. 20. where the Ephesians as the houshold or Church of God are said to be built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets c. chap. 3. 5. where he speaks of â—mistery of Christ which in other ages was not mâ— known unto the sonnes of men as it is now revealed uâ— his holy Apostles and Prophets by the spirit When it apeares that the Church is as well built upon tâ—â— foundation of the prophets to wit extraordinarâ— which then were for of them he speaketh as upâ—â— the doctrine of the Apostles and they as infalliblâ— euen for the very foundation inspired by the Holâ— Ghost as the other So that if the Prophets coâ—â— erre in doctrine then the Apostles if in doctrinâ— taught why not written and if one alone why nâ— more or all and if they might erre how know â—â— that they did not erre If he say the meaner in gift might erre but not the greater first the same folloâ—eth also touching the Apostles how much more touching the Prophets before Christ not comparible tâ— those after him why then may there not be errors in the writings especially of those meaner gifts as without doubt some were in comparison of the rest what whether this wind will bring who seeth not Moreover whereas wee propound such interpretations and doctrines as we
called to minister And that M. Yates may haue for the calâ—ng of our prophets whereon to insist thus we praâ—se After the exercise of the publick ministery ended â— Rulers in the Church do publickly exhort and reâ—ire that such of their own or other Church as haue gift to speak to the edification of the hearers should â—â— the same and this according to that which is writâ—â— Act. 13. 14. c. where Paul and Barnabas coming into the Sinagogue the Rulers after the work of the â—â—dinary ministery was ended considering them not â— Apostles which they acknowledged not but oneâ— as men hauing gifts sent unto them that if they had aâ— word of exhortation to the People they should say M. Yates ARG. 3. â—Rom the true causes of prophesy in the new testament â— which are two either immediate revelation or imposition â—ands the first is Act. 2. 17. 10. 44. the second Act â—7 19. 6. A third cause of publick prophecy connot be â—n therefore ordinary prophecy in publick out of office being â—her by immediat revelation or imposition of handes is â—â—wfull You may say the contrary But it will be without â—arrant of the word ANSWER â—â— this Arg. are sundry errors Logicall and Theoâ—ogicall And first why doth he not make Christs a thing upon the Apostles Iohn 20. and the descending and sitting of the cloven â—iery tonguâ— vpon them Act. 1. causes of prophesy as well as imposition of hands Secondly imposition of hands is â—â— cause at all of prophesy to speake properly as M Yates should doe affecting the name of a Logitian It is no naturall cause for to imagine that men took the holy Ghost in their hands and reached it to â—thers were ridiculous neyther is it a morall cause â— in which there are propounded no Arguments aâ— motiues of perswasion It is indeed no more then signe denoting the person not a cause effecting tâ— thing Thirdly if it were a cause yet should it nâ— be made the member of a diuision opposed to revâ—lation but a cause or meanes subordinate unto it â— vnto the end since it serued to the conveing of tâ— spirit by which spirit all reuelation is and by reueâ—tion all prophesy extraordinary by immediat reueâ—tion ordinary by mediate both which they were â— the Church as is the latter now euen in men out â— office by meanes of their study and Gods blessâ— upon the same else could there neuer be lawfull â—fice Pastor or Teacher chosen in the Church to â— worlds end The gift of prophesy comes not by â— office But being found in persons before maâ— them capable of the office by due meanes ARG. 4. M. Yates FROM distinction of spirituall gifts 1. Cor. 1â— 4. â— verse gifts administrations and operations All these be referred to that general vers. 1. Gifts therefore in this â—ce must be but one kinde of spirituall gifts and be distinâ—ished from the other two The first then are meerly gifts â— second gifts and offices together the third rather the â—ect of a gift then the gift it selfe and therefore the Holy â—ost knowing how to speake aptly giues more to the effect â—en the cause the worke then the worker for in truth miâ—ulous workes exceede all the vertue that possibly can be â—agined to be in a mere creature and therefore it is only a â—â—â—e beliefe or faith whereby man is rather a patient â—n an agent in the worke These 3. generall heads are deâ—ed againe or rather exemplified by many perticulars first â—se 8. 9. 10. all lay downe a kinde of spirituall gifts first a â—rd of wisdom 2. a word of knowledge 3. of miraculous â—â—th 4. of healing 5. operations of great workes 6. proâ—â—ying 7. descerning of spirits 8. of tongues 9. of interâ—tation That some of these gifts are extraordinary no wise â—n will deny yet that I may proue them all extraordinary â—sider 3 things First the cause secondly the effect thirdly â— subject The cause without all doubt is the spirit yet queâ—n may be of the maner and measure For maner whether â— spirit alone or the spirit assisting our industry and pains I â— alone because all these effects depend equally vpon the same â—se and I haue no reason to say that prophesy should be â—re by my paines and industery then strange tongues or any â—er gift for then I should magnifie the Holy Ghost in one â— more then an other That which is giuen by the sole opâ—â—ion of the spirit is more then that which is come by through â—â—nary paines I blesse God â—or his ordinary providence â—ere my hand goes with the Lord in my ordinary affayres â—t wherein I finde the Lord doe for me where I had no hand â—re I ought to magnifie him much more so in these gifts if some were ordinary some extraordinary then the spirit shoâ— not haue equal praise in them all The orator prouing Câ— to deserue more prayse for his clemency towards Marcellus tâ— all his famous victories vseth the maner of the cause to shew â— In thy warrs O Emperour thou hadst Captains and soâ—diers vertue and valour weapons and munition c But sâ—ring Marcellus thou alone didst it to thee alone it belongs â— all the glory of it so if prophesy in this place aboue all the â— must come in for an ordinary gift then may I say O blesâ— spirit Prophesy is thy gift yet doe I acknowledge thy ordiâ— blessing upon my labours in this but as for strange tonguâ— and the rest I acknowledge they are thy meere gift with all paine and labor of mine therefore the greater praise I gâ— thee Were not this to deminish prophesy in regard of the â— which the H. Ghost prefers before them all and therefore â— shew as great power in that gift as in any other The manâ— then being all one in giuing the second question is whitâ— they were giuen in the same measure I answer No Roâ— 12. 6. and hereupon the Apostle commanded that one pâ—phet should be subject to an other and willingly yeeld place â— him that had the greater measure I leaue the cause â— come to the effects which learned men cannot distinguisâ— will shew you my judgment and follow it as you please To â— two first gifts is giuen a word by words wee expresse our mâ—nings therefore the spirit must not onely giue a gift but aâ—bility and power â—o vtter that gift for the greatest good of â— hearers Brother it is the part of a divine to study for â— and fit words and indeed when God hath giuen us learnâ— by exceeding great paines yet wee finde great imperfection â—ant of words Now here I learn that the spirit of God did â—traordinarily supply this want by giuing unto men excellent â—terance of heauenly things The first two gifts are wisdome â— knowledge wisdom is a holy understanding of heauenly thâ—â—ith aprudent application of them to their seuerall vses Knowledge or science is an insight into divers heauenly truthâ—â—t wanting