and Page 210 14 There is a negatiue ignorance which is not sinne Page 208. 209 15 Châ—â—â—t â—â—oke vpon him the punishment due to sinne both â—gnorance and dâ—ath Page â—â—9 16 That which raised such feare and horror in Christ was not the feare of naturall death but the bitter wrath of God against mankind pag. 210. and 211 17 What the hell was which Christ suffered and as man feared pag. 211. nota 18 Christ suffered in soule as well as in bodie pag. 211. 212 19 Christ did not goe into Limbus after his death pag. 214 20 Many auncient Creedes both in the Romane and East Church haue not this article of Christs descension into heil pag. 215. nota 21 What the image of God was in man before his fall pag. 216 22 The whole image of God is not razed in man but some reliques are remaining Naturall gifts are corrupted supernaturall distinguished pag. 216. 217 23 That which is in the regenerate of themselues is corrupt that which they haue from God is contrarie to their corruption pag. 218 24 Sinne is not a substance nor a meere priuation but an accident and a corrupt habit like to a disease pag. 220 25 Concupiscence is sinne and so iudged by Augustine vpon great and weightie reason ibid. nota 26 Sometime he calleth it no sinne in opposition to actuall sin pag. 221 nota 27 Sinnes are not equall neither doe Protestants so teach they all deserue eternall death though some more some lesse pag. 221. 222 28 Grace is double either the free mercie and loue of God towards vs which is without vs in God or those gifts which flow from this grace and this is in vs. pag. 223 224 29 Christs righteousnes is onputed to vs as our sinnes to him Christ hauing paid our debt the paiment must needs be ours by imputation and if Papists allow the imputation of the righteousnes of Saints why should they so much scorne the imputation of Christ his righteousnes ibid. nota 30 Charitie cannot iustifie vs because it is imperfect for that which is faultie cannot iustifie vs. ibid. 31 Imputed and infused righteousnes goe together in one and the some man Iustification and sanctification are distinguished in the word pag. 225. nota 32 The regenerate by grace cannot so resist their temptations that they should neuer sinne as the example of S. Paul and others manifest pag. 226. 227. nota 33 Our righteousnes is a reall relation 228. nota 34 All our righteousnes being stained cannot iustifie vs and faith hope and charitie being imperfect cannot doe it pag. 229 35 Christ is he that couereth vs by whose righteousnes wee are adorned Our righteousnes is the couering of the fault pag. 231 36 Faith alone iustifieth but it is not alone when it doth iustifie pag. 232 37 The reasons why wee are exhorted to performe workes and obedience as also that wee are commanded to apprehend Christs righteousnes by faith pag. 230 38 A man ought and may be certaine of his saluation by the certaintie of faith pag. 232. 233. nota 39 Many are deceiued with a conceit of faith but he that hath it knoweth certainly that he hath it pag. 233. nota 40 From Gods predestination a man may be sure of his perseuerance so the Fathers teach yet a man must vse the meanes pag. 234. 235 nota 41 The number of Sacraments are but two in the Church the noueltie of the other fiue not any antiquitie for them and pregnant reasons against them pag. 237. nota 42 Hugo de S. Victore and Peter Lombard brought seuen Sacraments first into the Church No Councell before the Florentine did euer confirme them ibid. nota 43 Popish ceremonies in Baptisme are new ibid. nota 44 Protestants haue both bread and wine and the bodie and blood of Christ Papists haue no bread nor wine nota pag. 239 45 Baptisme is both a chanel of grace and that which confirmes grace but giueth not grace by the word wrought Duraeus contrarie to the schoolemen maketh it but an instrument pag. 239. nota 46 The Baptismes of Iohn and of Christ were both one in ceremâ—â—ie in doctrine and in grace pag. 240 47 The place against it Matth. 3.11 Act. 19.4.5 expounded and answered ibid. nota 48 Baptisme is not so simplie necessarie to saluation that the want of it will condemne but the neglect or contempt of it is a sinne pag. 241 49 Papists thinke infants dying without Baptisme are dâ—â—â—â—â—ed A barbarous and a seâ—selesse opinion and against all reason ibid. nota 50 Infants may haue faith as they haue life and know not of it pag. 242 51 The Sacrament is a Sacrament to all without faith but not a sauing Sacrament to men of yeeres without faith yet to infants it may be because the spirit worketh secretly and powerfully ibid. nota 52 Luther earnestly held that Baptisme ought to bee giuen to children and thought they had faith pag. 243 53 Caluin against the Anabaptists proued the baptisme of infants not by tradition but Scripture pag. 244. nota 54 Campian hath no cause to vpbraid Protestants with corruption of manners so long as Rome is so corrupt as as is and publike Stewes maintained in it pag. 245 55 Luthers lasciuious speech obiected by Campian plainly excused and a worse obiected of Pope Clements 246.247 56 Luther makes three causes of diuorce and the Papists many moe pag. 246. nota 57 Mariage is most necessarie for men who cannot liue chast and commanded pag. 247 58 Mariage is oftentimes simply better than virginitie though this be to be embraced when a man hath the gift that he may more freely serue the Lord. pag. 248. nota 59 The speech of Lauther saying The more wicked that thou art the necrer art thou vnto grace defended in his true sense pag. 249 60 How all our good actions are tainted with sinne and so may be called sinnes in Gods seuere indgement and yet good and to be done pag. 250. nota 61 The good actions of those who are once in Christ though tainted are acceptable vnto God because he lookes vpon the person not the worke pag. 251 62 The law belongs to Christians for a rule of their life though it be abrogated by the new couenant For they are deliuered not from the obedience of it but the curse of it by Christ pag. 252 253. 254. nota 63 God respects the good workes of his but not to instification pag. 254. nota 64 The iust not onely liues but is iustified by his faith and so much the place of Habacuck prooueth ibid. nota 65 Workes not the cause but the manifestation of righteousnes out of Thomas ibid. 66 They who haue broken hearts and contrite spirits are fittest ghuests for the Lords table neither is this against faith pag. 255 67 Luther was not against publike confession but a priuate auricular confession of all sinnes to a Priest onely when by the word it may be made to others pag.
this booke of the Babylonish captiuity he thus writeth of this Epistle I passe ouer that which many probablie affirme that this was not the Epistle of S. Iames the Apostle nor agreeing with the spirit of an Apostle These things very grauely and modestly hath Luther written concerning this Epistle of S. Iames d DVR Jf you had seene the copie printed at Jena you should see that Luther thus speaketh of this Epistle WHIT. p. 22. I acknowledge that Luther in a most auncient preface published by himselfe at Wittenberge 1525. called it a strawen Epistle in comparison of the Epistles of Saint Peter and Saint Paul but finde not that you affirme any where neuer culled it as you affirme a contentious barren swelling or a strawen Epistle though I deny not but Luther was of that opinion that he greatly called in question the Author and Argument of this Epistle And it had been your part who condemne his opinion to haue confuted his reasons Erasmus euidently writeth that this Epistle hath no tast of Apostolike authoritie so that Luther iudged more tolerably of this Epistle then Erasmus But howsoeuer the case stand Luther in his iudgment is not without the consent of the e DVR Jf he agreed with the first and purest Churches you differing from him doe dissent from them WHIT. I call them the purest Churches not for their sincere iudgement of this Epistle but for that they flourished in the best and purest times first and purest Churches And yet to let Luther passe we haue no other opinion of this Epistle then your selues haue and honor it as much as you thinke it deserues And let me promise and anow this for vs all whatsoeuer in this combate which you haue vndertaken you proue out of this Epistle we will most willingly imbrace and not shift it off as you suspect we will All the sentences of this Epistle we allow of and reiect not any one For as for that instance which you giue of sole faith it is but a sillie and lame tricke of your sophistry our doctrine of iustification by faith only is most true holy which S. Paul also clearely teacheth though he doe not f DVR Saint Paul neuer in plaine words hath affirmed our iustification by faith onlie WHIT. pag. 27. When S. Paul saith we are iustified by faith it is as much as by faith alone because faith respects onely mercy and withall excludeth workes Rom. 3.28 cap. 4.5.6 cap. 3.20 Gal. 2.16 and lastly he saith we are freely iustified by grace Eph. 2.7.8 Rom. 3.24 then he affirmes that faith only doth iustifie expressely vse these words Rom. 3.24.28 Faith alone And the auncient do so expound and interpret S. Paul Ambrose saith g DVR Ambrose by his sole faith excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law and so he speaketh in that place WHIT. pag. 33. It is enough that he affirmeth that this is S. Paules position we are iustified by faith only And when he excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law in that he is against the iudgement of Augustine and Hierome and himselfe also in lib. 2. cap. 2. de Iacob vita beata They are iustified only by faith it is the gift of God h DVR Basil excludes only those workes which are wrought by the sole power of freewill WHIT. pag. 38. Basil excludes not only the workes wrought by the power of freewill but euen those which proceed from faith and grace for he produced S. Paul and Saint Peter whom he denies to haue been iustified by workes yet had they both faith and grace Basil saith They are iustified by faith alone in Christ. i DVR Nazianzene excludeth only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries WHIT. pag. 41. Nazianzene excludes not only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries but also by it all other workes for seeing it is the most excellent and so excluding the greatest he must needs exclude the lesse Nazianzene saith Righteousnes consisteth in faith only Why should I recite any other sayings of other of the Fathers of the Church This doctrine is both Euangelicall and Apostolicall contrary to this if Iames or an Angell from heauen should preach let him be held as impious wicked and accursed But you will say S. Iames denies iustification by faith only yea affirmes that we are iustified by workes We answere that the Apostle speaketh of a k DVR Saint Iames speaketh not of a faigned faith for how can be theÌ„ speake of Abrahams faith how is it fayned to beleeue that God is WHIT. pag. 42. S. Iames speakâ—th of a fayned faith as is plaine vers 14. for it is in words only vers 15.16 it giueth nothing when reliefe is required verse 17. it is without workes and dead vers 18 only that is true faith which can be shewed by workes heere no workes vers 19. It is only such a faith as the diuels haue so a fayned and dead faâ—th pag. 44. And Augustine thus expoundeth it De fide oper Cap. 14. in Psal 31. in Praefat. and pag 45. Though Abrahams faith was a true faith because it shewed it selfe by true fruites and true workes that proues not but their faith is fayned who haue no workes Of which Saint Iames speaketh pag. 46. faith is not the lesse fayned and vaine because it beleeues that God is seeing Saint Iames affirmeth the diâ—els beleeue as much feigned dead idle and counterfeite faith which many boasted of and falsly perswaded themselues they were iust by it This faith which we may more truly call a carcase of faith Saint Iames denieth to be sufficient for saluation to any and he that is iustified he teacheth must be iustified by workes that is must be proued and declared to be iust for it must needs be that faith be liuing fruitfull and accompanied with good works that all may clearely perceiue and discerne you are indued with true faith And so doth S. Iames very fitly accord with S. Paul while he disputes from the effects when as S. Paul argueth from the cause The principall immediate cause of our iustification S. Paul makes faith S. Iames writeth that a man is iustified by workes that is euery man by his workes as by most pregnant testimonies is l DVR It is ridiculous to thinke that Saint Iames should teach men how to shew themselues iust and speake nothing of true iustice WHIT. pag 47. We say not that Saint Iames teacheth only how a man may obtaine the opinion of iustice with men but how he may shew and declare himselfe by certaine proofes and arguments to be indued with true iustice And that this place toucheth the declaration of true faith by workes and so the demonstration of our iustification not we but your owne men do so teach Thomas Aquin. in Iacob 2. Glossa-Ordin in Iacob knowne and acknowledged iust while his inuisible faith is witnessed and declared by his visible workes
that by his obedience we might be made righteous For this obedience of Christ imputed to vs and apprehended by faith Rom. 5.19 is that righteousnes of ours which you enquire after not heaped vp with our vertues as you would haue it but place in Christ who is made vnto vs of God 1. Cor. 1.30 wisedome righteousnesse sanctification and redemption And this is our d DVR The Scripture plainly witnesseth that as vve are made sinners by Adam so vve are made iust by Christ. Rom. 5. WHIT. pag. 602. You vnderstand not the Apostle For though we bee iust in Christ as we were sinners in Adam yet not after the same manner In Adam we sinned and had his sinne by propagation deriued to vs but the iustice of Christ thought it was communicated vnto vs by imputation ye 〈◊〉 â—as it not so deriued vnto vs. The Apostle would only teach and say this as Adam was the author of sin so Christ was the author of righteousnesse righteousnes euen Christ e DVR Answere me I pray you why the Apostles and Christ do so oft exhort vs to the obedience of the law and neuer bid vs apprehend the righteousnes of Christ by faith as Luk. 10. Matth. 25. WHIT. pag. 603. Christ and his Apostles do exhort vs to the obedience of the law not to the end wee may deserue euerlasting life by our workes but because it is our duty to walke in that race of piety wherein vvee are placed that vvee walking in those good workes and insisting in that vvay vvhich the Lord hath propounded to vs may come at length to that most happy mark For albeit we neuer come to a marke vnlesse we goe the right way yet the way is not the cause of the marke Novv vvhereas you say that we are no where commanded to apprehend Christ righteousnes by faith you bewray your miserable ignorance Peruse therefore better these famous places for proofe of that the Scriptures do commaund vs this Rom. 4.5 Rom. 5.19 Rom. 1.17 Gal. 2.16 Gal. 3.14 Ion. 3 18. Ioh. 5.24 Act. 10.43 As for the cause for which Christ in Matth. 25. saith he vvill make mention of vvorkes in the day of iudgement it is for that as Iames chap. 2.18 saith works do make shevv proofe of faith But in that very place vers 34. before Christ mentioneth those vvorkes of the Saints he toucheth the true and proper causes of saluation 1. Gods adoption in Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 possesse by the right of inheritance For that which one possesseth by the right of inheritance hee doth not deserue it by his merits 2. The eternall election of God vvhen hee saith that it is a kingdome prepared for theÌ„ from the fouÌ„dations of the world Novv if your opinion be this that God did prepare them this kingdome because he did foresee their great good vvorkes your ovvne Thomas is an aduersarie against you Thom de verit quast 6. art 2. Thom. 1. part quaest 23. art 1. himselfe whose f DVR Christ is called by S. Paul our righteousnes so in the same place hee saith that he is our vvisdome and our sanctification WHIT pag. 609. That vvisdome and righteousnes sanctification vvhich S. Paul affirmeth Christ to be made vnto vs are not resiâ—ent in vs as qualities nor are they othervvise ours than as vve doe embrace and possesse vvhole Christ by faith righteousnes and innocencie being ascribed vnto vs doth bring assured remission of sinnes and true righteousnes This the Diuines cal the first iustice after which followeth another compounded of these vertues of yours For with that remission of sinnes which dependeth on Christs obedience faith and hope charity are ioyned which make vs iust also after a sort but inchoatiuely not perfectly I haue declared to you in few words our opinion touching righteousnes sith you make inquiry what it is But your vertues cannot so cloath the soule round about as that no naked thing may appeare For all our righteousnesses are like g DVR Jf you speake of that iustice vvhich vve get to our selues vvithout the helpe of Christ you say truly but if of that which Christ hath purchased for vs by his blood and powred into our harts you doe an intollerable iuturie vnto Christ WHIT. pag 610. I speake of that righteousnes which euerie regenerate man hath by the help of Christ For do you thinke the Prophet wanted the helpe of Christ yet he professeth his righteousnes is impure and imperfect if you thinke hee did speake of their workes which are not regenerate you must deny that hee was regenerate who confesseth the imperfection of his workes Of this righteousnesse Beruard doth vnderstand it Serm. 5. de verbis Isay And all the godly haue thus confessed of them clues Psal 130.3 Dan. 9.7 Ezra 9.15 Iob. 9.3.28 1. Ioh. 1.8 1. Ioh. 2.7 filthie clouts Esay 64.6 and those not only defiled but also torne and rent in many peeces Rom. 13.14 Phil. 3 9. 2. Cor. 5.19 Christ himselfe must be put vpon vs that we may be found in him not hauing our owne h DVR Saint Paul calleth the righteousnes of the law that which is gotten by the doctrine of the lavv without the helpe of Grace And the iustice of faith not any apprehended by faith but because they come vnto it by faith WHIT. pag. 613. In examining the place we shall see of what iustice S. Paul speaketh first he denieth that to bee any part of iustice whatsoeuer he had gloriously done when he was a Pharisie that though he was then according to the iustice of the Law without reproofe indued with many good qualities yet he accounted all loffe for Christs sake vers 4.5.6.7 And lest any should thinke that he attributed any thing to his workes ofter faith he addeth that he reiecteth these also neither ascribed his iustification vnto them Adding in the 8. verse that hee accounted all things losse Not the other but these also I contemne and vpon this inferreth vers 9. Not hauing my owne righteousnes which is of the law but that which is through the faith of Christ. When then he excludeth all kind of workes hee must needs vnderstand the iustice of Christ righteousnes which is of the law but that which is by the faith of Christ namely the righteousnes that is of God through faith For God was in Christ and reconciled the world vnto himselfe not imputing their sinnes to them With this cloathing our soules must be cloathed that they may be beautified and gloriously adorned neither are wee ashamed of that word vpon which you play when we say that our righteousnes is a couering of the fault For so doth the Prophet Dauid pronouÌ„ce him to be a blessed man Psal 22.1 Rom. 4.6 whose iniquities be forgiueÌ„ whose sins are couered And this pardon we appreheÌ„d only by faith now this faith is not feined nor dead nor separate from other vertues nor
the error of your interpretation which you haue sucked from your corrupt maisters Cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things which are written in the booke of the law to do them The law promiseth life to them which obey the Law in all things they that offend in any thing to them it threatneth death and damnation p DVR Yet Christ Math. 11.30 saith My youke is easie and my burden light And S. Iohn 1. Epist 2.4 Ho that saith I know him and keepeth not his Commandements is alayr WHIT. pag. 705. S. Ioh. 1. Epist. 5.3.4 expoundeth the speech of Christ His Commandements are not grieuous For all that is borne of God ouercommeth the world and this is the victorie that ouercommeth the world euen our faith This yoke then to those who haue faith seameth not grieuous because they are inflamed with the loue of Gods Law neither feare they the curse of it because they are ingrafted by faith into Christans for the place of S. Iohn I answere they are said to keepe the Commandementâ— who do their best enendeuour to keepe them If any do thinke that he so keepeth them that hee is without all sinne that is that he perfectly keepeth them S. Iohn calleth him a lyar 1. Ioh. 1.8 An hard condition and which no man can euer satisfie Christ doth propose to vs another condition much easier Mar. 16.16 Beleeue and thou shalt bee saued By this new Couenant the old q DVR If it be abrogated how are we not freed from the obedience of it If God require only that you beleeue then by beleeuing you fulfill the Lavv and so haue not only an imputed but an inherent righteousnes WHIT. pag. 614. I say not that the Law is simplie abolished but in some respect Therefore it vvill not follovv that vve are freed from the obedience of it Againe vvee say not that faith fulfilleth the Law as if it did performe perfect obedieÌ„ce to it but because it layeth hold on Christ vvho is the end and perfection of the Lavv and on his righteousnes Therefore is it not an inherent but an imputatiue iustice is abrogated so as whosoeuer beleeueth the Gospell is freed from the condition of the Law Gal. 5.18 Rom. 6.14 For they that r DVR Christ saith not as you write but Hee that beleeueth and is baptised shall be saued Now they who are baptised haue receiued from God a good will to keepe the whole Law which they determine afterwards by the grace of Christ to obserue WHIT. pag. 715. The words of Christ confirme as â—â—ch as I brought them for For Baptisme is not a worke of the Law but a wale of faith And Christ sheweth that our saluation consisteth only in faith And though the baptised frame theirliues according to the rule of the Law and are endued with new wills and new strength yet they do it not with that mind to iustifie themselues by their obedience before the Lord. Then should they lose the righteousnes of faith which doth not consist in our merits and good vvorkes but is such as the Apostle describeth Rom. 4.5 beleeue are not vnder the Law but vnder grace What needs many words Å¿ DVR This is your new Diuinitie that vvee should be freed from the cursse of the Lavv vvhich vvee cannot fully obey vvhen as Christ at the last shall pronounce the cursse against those vvho haue not obered And Christ as S. Paul saith hath freed vs from the cursse because by his death be â—ath deserued grace for vs vvhereby we may keepe the Lavv. WHIT. pag. 713. This is your ignorance in Diuinity For who is ignorant of that which the Apostle affirmeth plainely Gal. 3.13 that Christ hath freed vs from the cursse of the Law Though then we cannot fully keepe the Law yet being ingrafted into Christ and he communicating his righteousnes vnto vs wee escape the cursse of the Lavv. At the last day it is no maruell if Christ pronounce the cursse of the Law against the reprobates vvho neuer vvere freed from the cursle And if Christ by his death brought vs grace to keepe the Law why might not the Galathians haue kept the Lavv and obtained righteousnes by it But the Apostle shevveth them that Christ tooke the cursle because he tooke both the sinne and the punishment vpon him not that therby he procured theÌ„ grace to fulfill the Law Christians are deliuered from the curse of the law but not from the obedience of it As for our works surely God regardeth them and if they be good he rewardeth them if contrarie he iudgeth them worthy of punishment t DVR Jn those vvho are iustified God much respecteth their vvorkes as in Abraham Iam 2.21 and 1. Ioh. 3.7 And in Phinehas Psal 106.31 his vvorke imputed for righteousnes WHIT. pag. 716. To the places of Saint Iames and Saint Iohn you haue been ansvvered before The fact of Phinâ—haâ— proceeded from faith and so the praise of it to bee giuen to faith not to the worke If you accounted of Thâ—mas as you make shew of your iudgment vvould bee sounder in these things For thus he vvriteth on Galat. 3. VVorkes are not the cause that any one is iust before God but they are affâ—ctes and manifestations of righteousnes Neither Luther not any of vs say any more but in iustifying of vs God hath no respect to our works u DVR The Prophet saith not that a man is iust because be beleeneth but that be vvho is iust doth liue by his faith that is doth vphold himselfe by his faith and sainteth not It is as absurd to be iust by another mans iustice as to liue by another mans life WHIT. pag. 716. I could admit of your exposition but that I am persvvaded the Apostle vnderstood the Prophers mind beuer then you For the Apostle hath vsed it to proue that we are iustified by faith and not by the workes of the Law no not by those which are wrought after faith for thus he reasoneth Gal. 3.11 That 〈◊〉 man is iustified by the Law in the sight of God it is euident for the iust shall liue by faith And the Law is not of faith What hath he concluded but that you demy that is that the Prophet hath said that a man is iustified because hee beleeueth So Chrysast in Gal. 3. sheweth that saith iustifieth by the testiâ—â—â—nie of the Prophet Abakuk Which if it were not what concerneth it the Galathians who vvere endued vvith faith and ioyned their vvorkes vvith their faith If it be absurd to be iust by another mans righteousnes I pray you tel me hovv the Scripture calleth Christ both the cursse and sinne As for vs we had rather be absurd vvith the holy Ghost then vvise vvith you for the iust shall liue not by his works but by his faith Now goe on * DVR Then where is your faith which assureth you of the remission of your sinnes and quiteth all your
Aduersaries I was in so doing most vain-glorious and proud aboue measure for that I considered neither them nor my self more deeply But if vpon considerations of the cause I thought my selfe able enough to proue that this sunne shineth now at Mid-day you must beare with this my feruent zeale which the honor of Iesus Christ my King and inuincible truth haue vrged me vnto Yee know that Marcus Tullius in his oration for Quintius when Roscius warranted him that he should get the better if he could proue that it was not possible for a man to trauaile 700. miles within two daies space was not only nothing afraid of the force and strength of that famous Orator Hortensius but also cared nothing for Philippus Cotta Antonius or Crassus who were Orators farre more excellent then Hortensius was And were as he iudged the principall Orators of his time There is vndoubtedly a truth in all matters so apparent and euident that neither any iugling trickes or enchaunting words can darken the beames thereof But that which I intend to proue is much more plaine then was that supposition of Roscius for if I shall proue this that there is a heauen a God a faith a Christ I haue gotten the victorie Should I not in this cause then be couragious Truly wel may I be killed but ouercome I cannot be for I depend vpon those Doctors whom that holy spirit hath instructed which can neither be deceiued nor ouercome I beseech you haue a care of your soules health of whom I shall obtaine this I expect the rest assuredly Let this be your only care and cogitation First to giue your selues to earnest prayer then diligentlie to studie also and yee shall find out the very depth of the matter and that the Aduersaries are in despaire and that we being so surely grounded haue good cause chearefully and couragiously to looke and long after these disputations I am the shorter in this preface because that all the Treatise following appertaineth properly to you Fare you well AN ANSWERE TO CAMPIANS EPISTLE WRITTEN TO THE STVDENTS OF THE two famous Vniuersities Oxford and Cambridge A Yeere agoe you write it fell out That according to the order of the religion which you professe vpon the commaundement of your Superiours you returned into this Iland Whether Campian you came willingly and of your owne accord or of a certaine necessitie by the order of your profession and Iesuiticall sect you were compelled to returne into England whence some yeeres ago you departed I will not be inquisitiue of because it is not much for the purpose we haue in hand It had bin far more glorious for you and more befitting the person you made shew to be not to haue crept in obscurely and by stealth but to haue returned with credit and authoritie But who is he that had power to send you an Embassage into a forreine country or what necessity lay vpon you to obey his commaundement who had no authority to enioyne you a iourney whither you were vnwilling to goe If that Spanish Souldier the first Author of your Iesuiticall societie were now aliue and should enioyne you to set your country on fire would you obey him I am sure you would say he would neuer commaund so foule a fact And yet he might better commaund and you execute that then this thing for which you professe you are now come hither For whether I pray you may we deeme lesse to set houses on fire then to diuert the minds of people from true Religion to trouble the peace of a Common-wealth to estrange the minds of loyall Subiects from their lawfull Prince and to turne all things topsie turuie which yet was the end of your comming and the order of your profession required no lesse at your hands But let vs heare how you go about your Embassage when say you I had gone further into England I saw nothing more vsuall then vnusuall punishments But Campian what be they Do you eft-soones so slaunder the mild gouernment of gratious Elizabeth accuse it of cruelty England neuer enioying a more mercifull Prince that you affirme you find nothing so common as vnusuall punishments But what new kind of torture haue you seene in Englād since you came into it Or which of your men can you name who hath bin condemned put to death for Religion not only since you came into England but for these 23. yeeres the whole time that good Elizabeth hath swayed the Scepter of this kingdome It is true indeed that some few haue bin punished who iumpe with you in opinion and Religion but they died not for religion but were by open iudgment of law conuicted of Treason There was of late executed one Euerard a Priest sent from the Colledge at Rhemes into England Who though he was in daunger to the Lawes many waies yet might haue had his life but that impudently at the barre he vttered things shamefull vile and intolerable For he boasted himselfe both to be the subiect and Vassall of the Pope euen in England and affirmed that the Pope was no lesse the head of the Church of England then of the Church of Rome Auouching further that he was verily perswaded that the Pope did not erre when he termed Queene Elizabeth an Heretike and the Patron of Heretikes and denounced her no lawfull Queene Euerard was for this confession conuicted and condemned who afterwards as if this had not been enough in prison professed plainly and directly in the presence and hearing of Sixteene men of credit That it was no sinne against God to commit treason against his Prince Yet for all this he suffered no new and vnusuall punishment but the same that all Traytors suffer among vs in the like case But who are you and what is your religion that you so bouldly obiect crueltie vnto vs Heare me this one thing Campian and denie it if you can It is not long since moe of our brethren were condemned by you at one Session executed in one day consumed in one fire then you can recount to me haue yet bin put to death for the Popes cause at any time or by any kind of death in the whole happie raigne of Queene Elizabeth Doe but call to mind Campian the rare cruelty the exquisite tortures the frequent Martyrdome of former times and if there be in you any sparke of humanity you cannot chuse but confesse that your side hath been extreme cruell and we sufficiently prouoked to seueritie against you and to haue repayed you with the like For what times I pray you can afford vs such and so many butcheries of men as was to be seene when you were Lords ouer vs and which are yet fresh in memorie Tell vs what sexe or age you spared and did not bloodilie execute all without difference and distinction of learned or vnlearned male or female old or young Children Virgins Married Clergie and Laytie Bishops Archbishops escaped not your hands The Martyrs you did
we our selues do giue all diligence we can to attaine true sauing health to which seeing there is but one way and that plainely laid downe in the Scriptures we againe beseech you that renouncing all humane inuentions and forsaking those innumerable fictions of Poperie wherto for these few yeares past you haue bin addicted you would also with vs labour for that eternall saluation which the Scripture hath propounded to all Christians and to as many as are desirous of eternall life For what profiteth it to wish for saluation and miserablie to erre in the search of it Wherfore Campian we pray and beseech you to returne from these your wanderings and errors tending to death into the plaine and straight way of saluation For this know so long as you remaine a Iesuite you neither can be saued nor indeede can desire it And heere you say you are the briefer because you will deale with vs in a Treatise following Therefore now let vs heare your discourse REASONS OF CAMPIANS CHALLENGE RENDRED AND GIVEN TO THE Students of the English Vniuersities EDMVND CAMPIAN My principall reasons are ten 1. Holy Scriptures 2. True meaning of the holie Scriptures 3. Nature of the Church 4. Generall Councels 5. Fathers 6. Sure ground of the Fathers 7. Historie 8. Paradoxes of the Aduersaries 9. Sophismes of the Aduersaries 10. All manner of witnesses The first reason which is holy Scriptures WHereas there are many things which euidently open the Aduersaries mistrust in the cause yet nothing so much as the maiestie of Gods bookes by them most filthilie * It is false for we haue corrupted no part of the Bible corrupted For they who after that they haue reiected the voyces and testimonies of all other witnesses and are neuerthelesse driuen to so narrow shifts that they cannot defend their cause to be good except they lay violent hands vpon the holy Scriptures also assuredly shew themselues to be in great distresse and all other helps failing and fainting must now trie the last and vttermost shift What cause had the Manachies to cancel a Aug. lib. 28. contra Faust cap. 2 de vtilit cre c. 3. S. Matthewes Gospell and the Acts of the Apostles Desperation for they were tormented with these bookes both because they had denied Christ to be b Matth. 1. borne of a Virgin and also had falsely affirmed that then the holy c Act. 2. Ghost came first downe from heauen amongst Christians when their d Manes Paraclete that most wicked Persian leapt out What made the e Jren. lib. 1. cap. 26. Ebionits to abandon all S. Paules Epistles Deâ—peration for so long as these kept their authoritie Circumcision is abolished which they had brought backe againe What enforced f Praefat in Epist Iac. vide etiam lib. de capt Babyl centur 2. Luther that most wicked Apostata to call the Epistle of S. Iames * This is most false for Luther greatly approueth of this Epistle neither euer did he call it a contentious swelling barren or strawne Epistle contentious proud barren rushy and iudge it to be vnworthy an Apostolike spirit Desperation g Iaco. ca. 2. For by this Epistle that miserable caitife affirming our iustification to be by faith * This is false for the place maketh nothing at all against Iustification by faith only only is vtterly confuted coÌ„founded what incensed h Bibl. Geneu Luthers whelpes on a suddaine to put out of the * It is false thâ—se bookes were neuer accounted part of the true Canon true Canon of Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees in despight of them many other i Of the old Testament bookes vnto which they picked the like quarrell Desperation for by these heauenly k Tob. 12. Eccles 15. 1. Macha 12 1. Machab. 15. Oracles they be expresly conuinced as often as they dispute against the defence of Angels as often as they dispute against Free-will as often as they dispute against praying for the dead as often as they dispute against praying to Saints Is it so indeed Is there such frowardnes is there such presumption amongst meÌ„ when they had trodden vnder foot the authority of the Churches CouÌ„cels * Seas Fathers Martyrs Emperours People Lawes Vniuersities Histories all Monuments of Antiquitie holines had openly proclamed that they would haue all controuersies decided by the written word of God only would they then haue dismembred the very same word which only remained by cutting out of the whole body so many so good and so excellent partes therof For the Caluinists haue cut out of the old Testament l Baruch Tob. Iudith Sapient Eccles Macha dâ—o seauen whole bookes besides certaine other small peeces which I let passe vnspoken of The Lutherans likewise haue cut off S. Iames Epist for spight of it m Epistol ad Hebr. Epist Jud. Epist 2. Pet. Ep. 2 3. Iohannis it a censent Luth. in praefat Mag. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap 4. Kem. in exam con Tri. Ses 4. De doct chr lib. 2. cap. 8. Ses 4. vide Mel. Can. lib. 2. de Loc. Theol. cap. 9.10.11 de praedest Sanct. cap. 14. fiue others which some where els also were once called in questioÌ„ To these also do the late Geneuans adde the booke of Hester a great part of the third chapter al the two last chapters of Daniel which the Anabaptists their school-fellowes had a little before coÌ„demned laughed to scorne But how much more modest lie delt S. Austine who making a Catologue of the books of holy Scriptures tooke for his rule neither the Hebrew Alphabet as the Iewes do nor yet his owne priuate spirit as Heretikes vse to do but that spirit wherewith Christ quickneth the whole body of his Church which Church being not Lady as Heretickes do cauil but only keeper of this gage hath by old * This is false for the Laodicene Councel doth so number the bookes of the Scriptures as we do and not as the Councell of Trent doth auncient Councels openly challenged this whole and entire treasure of the bookes of Scripture which the late CouÌ„cell of Trent also hath embraced The self-same S. Augustine intreating particularly of one parcell of Scripture could not perswade himselfe that the booke of Wisdome should by any mans rashnes or secret false suggestion be thrust out of the Canon of Scripture which euen in his time by iudgement of the Church processe of time testimonie af auncient writers and instruction of faithfull men had kept his authoritie as a sound and Canonicall booke what would he say if he were now liuing vpon the earth againe and should see the Lutherans and Caluinists to be Bible makers who with their sine and smooth stile haue raced both the old and new Testament and put out of the Canon of holy Scriptures not only the booke of Wisdome but many bookes more also so that
boulder then a Iesuite being newlie come out of your den or cabbine where you haue lurked these diuers yeeres to proclame warre against vs all and challenge to the combate the most valiant of vs that you saie was the euident apprehension of our distrust and diffidence in our cause But what manhood is this for so valourous a man as you make shew to be to prouoke and with sharpe warre to pursue so timerous aduersaries who are readie to betake themselues to their heeles not daring to stand to it but distrusting their owne strength But tell vs in what things our distrust hath bin so sensible There are many things say you which euidently bewray the aduersaries mistrust in the cause Verelie if boldnes in oppugning and withstanding Religion were of as great force as vsually it is in making of warre and scaling the enemies walles and racing his townes we might well feare your furious and desperate attempts for whatsoeuer could be compassed by rage furie and crueltie that hath not in this combate and contention been wanting But such weapons cannot dare religion and truth neither can they displace it Let it be graunted we haue not been so cheerefull and readie in the defence of a good cause as we ought and as the cause it selfe well deserued neither haue we put to flight your forces so soone as we ought to haue vanquished theÌ„ yet we neuer gaue ground we neuer turned our backs vpon you neither euer sled out of the field a DVR You boats much of your valour but vvhether thinke you is he valorous or fearefull vvho dare not othervvise buckle vvith his aduersarie but vpon condition he may forbid him what weapons he list and choose for himselfe vvhat he list Now here is your valour you forbid vs the vveapons of the Church Councels Fathers You only leaue vs the weapons of the Scriptures WH Pag. 4. He that will ouercome in this cause must onely vse those weapons which are allowed in this kind of sight For it is not lawfull heere as in warre to take any weapon by which you can wound your enemie But weapons must be fetched out of the armorie of the Scriptures and the spirit of God or else there vvill be no foyling of an aduersary And this is that which the Scriptures doe warrant and Constantine commanded the Fathers of the Nicene Councel to vse against the Arrians and to end controuersies the bookes of the Euangelists and Apostles and the oracles of the old Prophets Theodoret. lib. 2. cap. 6. And the like teacheth Hillarie de Trinit lib. 7. August Epist. 3. and contr liter Petil. Donat. lib. 3. cap. 6. and in diuers other places Why doe you then repoue this thing in vs Tell me vvhose cause thinke you is best vvhether ours vvho are content vvith the Sâ—riptures alone and being armed vvith them can defend our ovvne and refel others or yours vvhich in no case can be safe if the cause must be tried by the Scripture only Therefore at the fiâ—st you are forced to confesse that you must come into the field vnarmed and naked if no vveapons vvill be afforded you besides the Scriptures For tell vs Campian if you can and remember the bypast times Did we euer cuÌ„ningly auoid any disputation did we euer refuse any combate did we euer shift off any of your offers and challenges But how often haue we publikely entred the combate with you how often haue we refuted your oft iterated Sophistications what writing of yours is yet vnanswered by vs or what course of disputation haue we not yeelded to Are not all those disputations held at Wittenberge Ratesbone Augusta Spire Wormes Bearne Possia London Cambridge Oxford most plentifull and pregnant witnesses with what spirits with what learning with what truth we defended our Religion what shew or signe of feare or diffidence found you amongst vs nay rather how true and singular confidence did there appeare in vs you it is and not we when it comes to a trial indeed that begins to sweat chaunge countenance tremble euery ioynt of you and bewray your deepe distrust and the naughtines of your cause Wherefore Campian take it from me if you thinke our distrustfulnes will helpe you any thing you much deceiue your selfe for if we haue with courage stood against your predecessors so far surpassing you we will not yeeld a haire to you nor feare your manner of conflict being so childish in the iudgement of all men But this diffidence you so cast in our dish tell vs what it is and how it appeares so clearely Forsooth we distrust our hold in the Scriptures and the maiestie of Gods bookes we haue most filthilie corrupted This indeed is a very great crimination you obiect to vs and an vndoubted proofe of our distrust for they who are not able to maintaine the Religion they professe vnlesse they lay violent hands vpon the Scriptures and impeach the sacred authoritie of those heauenly bookes the cause on their side must be very naught and desperate indeed Therfore I graunt vnto you that it was very fearefull desperation which made the Manachies renounce the old Testament wholy and cancell part of the new the same also made Ebion reiect all Paules Epistles and other heretikes to do so too for there was nothing fitter for them to vphold those their monstrous opinions then by denying those bookes of holy Scripture But I pray you Campian let vs see how these things make for your purpose or what it is wherein we are so like those forenamed Heretikes Me thinkes it little beseemeth your learning and eloquence to slaunder vs and to pinne vpon our sleeues such odious crimes of auncient heretikes so vndeseruedly If we haue shaken hands with the Manachees if with the Ebionits tell vs wherein But if we are culpable of no such thing the Lord shall iudge your outragious and bold slaunders and maintaine our vprightnes and innocency For who euer thought and spoke more honorably reuerently and with more due regard of the Scriptures then we who haue receiued and imbraced all Scripture giuen by inspiration as the very voice of God himself holding it for the only mysterie of our faith and religion and so resting in it as that we desire no other helpe as necessary to saluation which if we had not with more diligence and deuotion defended then you euer did long ere this the glorie of it had perished and it had bin counted as a dead letter For what haue we done for these many yeeres with more endeuour and diligence then maintaine the maiesty and excellencie of the Scriptures which you haue so vnworthily violated And yet you blush not to match vs with the Manachees and Ebionits who haue violently laid most impure and villanous hands vpon those sacred bookes But say you Luther that most wicked Apostata called the Epistle of S. Iames a contentious swelling barren and strawen Epistle and iudged it vnworthy the spirit of an Apostle still
because he was iniurious to the Apostle a blasphemer a naughty man a wicked fellow Gregorie Massonius esteemeth more of one Caluin then of an hundred Augustines a hundred is but a few Å¿ Lib. cent Henrie 8. Reg. Augâ— Martin Luther careth not a button if there were against him a thousaÌ„d Augustines a thousand Cyprians a thousand Churches I thinke it will be to no purpose to wade any further in this matter for who may maruell if they that thus raile against these worthy men haue also been saucy against Optatus Athanasius Hilarius both Cyrils Epiphanius Basill Vincentius Fulgentius Leo and Gregorie the Romane And yet if there may be any iust defence of an vniust cause I do not deny but the Fathers haue wheresoeuer you reade in their workes such matter as may cause the Aduersarie to take pepper in the nose so long as they follow their owne humours For they that cannot away with prescript daies of abstinence how is it likely that they can abide S Basill S. Gregorie Nazianzene S. Leo and S. Chrysostome who haue set forth in print g zâ—ch 13. Praef. in cent 5. very godly sermons concerning Lent and Ember daies as things vsually at that time obserued among Christian people Can those men chuse which haue sold their soules for riches bodily pleasure daintie fare and fine apparrell but beare deadly hatred to S. Basill S. Chrysostome S. Hierome and S. Augustine whose excellent bookes of the order rule and vertuous life of * But these Monkes were most vnlike to ours Monkes are vsually in euery mans band May they that haue intruded seruill will into man that haue cut off all Christian funerals that haue set on fire the reliques of Saints continue friendship with S. Augustine who hath penned three whole bookes of mans * But in these bookes he doth not establish freewill freewill t Lib. 22. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 8. ser de diuers 34. sequent one booke of care to be taken for the dead one long chapter of that his noble worke De ciuitat Dei concerning miracles wrought at the Churches Chappels and sepulchers of holy Martyrs and certaine Sermons of the same matter Can such as measure faith by their own captiousnes refraine from anger towards S. Augustine of whose penning there is extant a notable o Cont. epist Man quam vocant fundam c. 4. Epistle against Manachie wherein he confesseth that for his faith he will cleaue vnto * Yet in that very place Augustine preferred truth before all these Antiquitie vnity continuall succession and to the Church which by prescription alone challengeth amoÌ„g so many heresies the title of Catholike u Li. 1. cont Paâ—men Optatus * This Optatus is an old Father newly printed Bishop of Miletan confuteth such as tooke part with Donatus by the Catholike coÌ„munity Their wickednes he accuseth by the decree of the Pope Melchiades he reproueth x Lib. 2. their heresie by the succession of the Bishops of Rome He displaieth their y Lib. 3. madnes by their dafiling both of the blessed Eucharist and also of the holy oyle He abhorreth their z Lib. 6. sacriledge in breaking downe of holy Altars whereupon Christs body is laid and also in polluting of the Chalices which contained Christs blood I would gladly know what they thinke of Optatus who is commended by S. a Aug. lib. 1 cont Parmen De Vnit. ca. 16. lib. 3 de Doct. Christ c. 40. Augustine as a worthy and Catholike Bishop not inferiour to S. Ambrose and S. Cyprian and whom S. b Fulgent li. 2. ad Monim Vide epist. Synod Alex. ad Feli. 2. Fulgentius also recordeth to haue been an holy man and faithfull Interpretor of S. Paul not vnlike vnto S. Augustine and S. Ambrose They reade S. Athanasius Creed in their Churches Do they for all that beare him any good will who hath highly commended as an auncient writer in an exact booke S. Antony that hermite of Aegypt and also hath humbly appealed with the Councell of * A counterfeit Epistle Alexandria vnto the Sea Apostolike of S. Peter How often doth S. Prudentius in his Hymnes pray vnto the blessed Martyrs what Hymnes doth he endite in their praise how often doth he worship the King of Martyrs at their ashes and bones will they allow of this man S. Hierome in the defence of Reliques and honor of Saints writeth against Vigillantius and for the preheminence of virginitie against Iouinian will they tolerate this An high solemne feast was kept by c Vide Epist de Ambros ad Epist It al. Fom 3. Silâ—â— tiusdem Amb. Epist. 85. Item Serm. 91. S. Ambrose in the honor of his Patrones Geruasius and Protasius to the great reproach of the Arrians which act the holy d August lib. 22. de ciuie Dei cap. 1. Fathers haue highly commended and God himselfe adorned with many miracles will they be friends with S. Ambrose c Gregâ—r Tur. lib. de gloria Mar. cap. 46. Metaphrast S. Gregorie the great that Apostle of * Gregorie the great was neither our Apostle nor an Apostle at all ours is flat on our side and for that title is hated of our Aduersaries whom Caluin in his fury doth deny to be brought vp in the f Iust. lib. 1. cap. 11. n. 5. schoole of the holy Ghost because hee called holiâ— Images the books of vnlearned people A whole day would not be enough for me to reckon all the Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Treatises and disputations of the old Fathers wherein of set purpose both grauely and eloquently they haue confirmed our Catholike doctrine So long as these bookes of these Fathers shall be sold at the Stationers shop in vaine are the hauens and sea coasts watched so narrowly to no purpose are houses coffers and chests straightly searched to no end are penall proclamations set vpon so many gates For none of our late writers neither Harding nor Sanders nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol do more vehemently inueigh against these their new found dreames then those Fathers do whom I haue named which things when I well considered my courage began to rise I had a desire to fight in which conflict on which side soeuer the aduer sarie shall start except he yeeld due honor vnto God he shall haue the foyle if he allow of the Fathers he is caught if he disallow of them he is no body Thus it fell out when I was a yong student at Oxford * This word Bishop Iewel did neuer eat neither wil we euer renouÌ„ce Iohn Iewel the captaine of English Caluinists challenged in most bragging sort all Catholikes at Paules Crosse in London vrging and alledging like an hypocrite all the Fathers that euer flourished within sixe hundred yeares after Christ. Certeine worthy men which then for religion liued as banished men in the Vniuersity of Lonan thoug through the iniquity of the time they
would follow that God himselfe the author of nature is culpable And so proceedeth vtterly denying that he had any purpose in those bookes to speake of that will which is made free by Gods grace And whatsoeuer in these books passed his pen which seemed to fauour the Pellegians then Patrons of freewill as you are now all that he carefully collecteth out of the whole worke and cleareth it from their cauils Haue we any cause to be offended with Augustine which in this question is not against vs And that you may plainly perceiue how indiscreetly you alledged these bookes of free-will marke what hee writeth of the will of man in those same bookes n DVR Wherto tendeth this but to bewray your ignorāce all Catholikes beleeue that the will of man though free is able to do nothing to merit heauen by but by the grace of God And you are ignorant that the freedome of will consisteth in this that by no necessitie it is carried to either part WHIT. pag. 382. Pelagians in former time beleeued as much But as Pelagius affirmed that the will was only helped with grace and not made good by grace so you teach that no new will is infused but the natural is helped and as it were vnloosed by grace which is not much from Pelagianisme for both of you defend that the liberty of wil remaineth in mans corrupt nature that it need not be giuen him from aboue but only by the helpe of grace to be drawne out of certeine difficulties in which the corruption of sinne had left it And as for my ignorance I confesse it and thinke it more learned then your knowledge for if those who do things necessarily do them not freely then neither God nor the diuel worketh not freely for God worketh well and the diuell euill necessarily So you see necessity is not opposed to freewill for not necessity but force and compulsion taketh away the freedome of the will Hold thou fast saith Augustine this principall of piety Delibere Arbit 61.2 cap. 20. that no good thing happens vnto thee either when thou thinkest or vnderstandest or any way imaginest which is not from God And this was Augustines constant opinion of freewill after that being stirred by the Pellagians he throughly vnderstood the question viz. that he iudged it to be vtterly lost and gone o DVR The meaning of the place is this that man so lost his freewill that be lost himselfe yet so as no man in his right wits will deny but he is a man still WHIT. pag. 384. You graunt as much as we desire for as man lost himselfe and yet remained a man but not such as he was good iust holy indued with perfection but cleane changed so the free will of man was lost not that no wil remained but that it was changed from good to euill for we say not there is remaining no freewill at all but no good wil as we affirme not there is no man at all remaining but no good man Man saith he by abusing his free-will lost both it and himselfe Enchir. 3. But yet further you vrge Augustine against vs for say you they that make their captious deuises the rule of their faith must not they bee offended with Augustine which hath an excellent Epistle against Manicheus An Epistle Campian do you call it it was euer accounted a booke but what is there in that Epistle as you call it against vs in which he professeth himselfe to agree with Antiquity vnity perpetuall succession and with that Church which alone amongst so many heresies hath attained vnto the name Catholike by prescription We also agree with that Church which hath all these And yet to these must be added as Augustine saith in the same place sincere wisdome and truth else all the other bind vs not for they are of no value without that wisdome but this wisdome and truth though without these is of it selfe to bee preserred before all things so saith Augustine Cont. Fundam cap. 4. if the truth appeare manifestly so as it cannot be doubted of it alone is more to be esteemed then p DVR Augustine affirmeth that these cannot be without the truth WHIT. pag. 387. Nay Augustine sheweth the contrarie for if truth cannot be separated from these he had spoken very vnfitly when he said he preferred the truth before all these If you can take or rightly challenge the possessiō of truth in the next place you may inquire of Antiquity Vnity Succession all those reasons that keepe me in the Catholike Church Thus then Augustine setteth more by the truth it selfe alone and sincere wisdome then all those things you mention Antiquity Vnity Succession and we perceiuing this truth and wisdome so manifestly in our Churches that none that will see the truth can doubt whether we hold the truth or no do willingly giue you free liberty to bragge whilest you list of antiquity vnity succession without the truth There is then as you see no cause why we should be angry with Augustine either now or before But at length you leaue Augustine and call out Optatus Bishop of Miletum of whom you say you desire to know what our opinion is I verily thinke he was a good Father and very like vnto Augustine and I take the things to be true which many worthy men haue said in his commendation But he disproued the Donatists by the communion of the Catholike Church Why should he not or what doth that cōcerne vs Augustine also obserued the same course and it was a good motiue that the communion of the Church should be obiected to the schismaticall Donatists which seditiously without cause separated themselues from the Church But wee deny your Church to be Catholike and therefore you cannot thus conuince vs though Optatus might therby confute the Donatists It must first appeare that it is the Church before we can be conuicted of schisme The q DVR So indeed Caluin answereth but it will not serue your turne for Opratus proueth himself to be in the Catholike Church because he ioyned himselfe to Saint Peters chaire WHIT pag. 388. And what call you Peters chaire the externall seate or the succession of Bishops you shall neuer proue it and the contrary I cen easily obiect out of Optatus himselfe Optatus calleth Syritius Bishop of Rome his fellow and the companion of other Bishops who held a sound and Catholike iudgement With all those Syricius agreed in one society and fellowship by their letters sent one to another as witnesses of their consenting in doctrine and lawfull ordination Optatus then proueth that he was a Catholike because he kept the Catholike confession and coniunction with Syrrcius and other Bishops Finally his argument was good against the Donatists who did separate themselues from the communion of the Catholike Church while they consented not with these Churches where the doctrine of the Apostles and a lawfull ordination of Bishops did
fellowes digged out of their graues to helpe you in your desperate cause heare me Campian that which Iewel then said most truly and confidently challenging you to the triall of sixe hundred yeares antiquity offering also to yeeld you the victory if you brought one plaine and manifest authority out of any Father or Councell that same we do all professe and promise and will surely performe it Twentie yeares are expired and not one of you hitherto could performe the condition if you perswade your selfe to haue more sufficiency hereunto then your masters before haue had why stay you why sit you still why discontinue you the defence of so good a cause But alas you are no body you haue read nothing you haue no strength answerable to such an endeuor The learned Humphrey did not taxe Iewel as if he had too liberally vndertaken for the Fathers or performed lesse then he promised but only that he had yeelded further vnto you then he needed and called backe the cause which was already determined by the Scriptures to the authorities of the Fathers which yet he did not as though he distrusted any thing the triall of Scriptures for hee knew that they were sufficient to refute all popish errors but that hereby he might beate downe that their insolent and most false bragge of antiquitie which preuailed with many You say further that you haue conferred sometimes familiarly with Toâ—y Matthew and wâ—â—led him to answere freely whether hee that read the Fathers diligently could bee of that part which â—e fauoured Although in priuate and familiar conference wee say many things which we would not haue further reported or dispersed yet I doubt not but the worthy Mathew gaue you such an answere as was both agreeable to the truth and fit for his iudgement and wisdome Wee must not in all things beleeue the Fathers nor doth our faith depend vpon their word Sometimes they haue erred and been the occasion of errors vnto others yet may we reade them by their truthes be more learned by the contrary more wary And this also thinketh Matthew Hutton that famous man whom you surmise to bee the only man amongst vs conuersant in the Fathers And this also is all our opinions After you haue thus finished your discourse you will now as you say without feare come into the battell and fight with vs. You are still telling vs of armies skirmishes warres campes and of your battailes but you should remember that the triall of warre is common to both sides and the issues of battailes vncerteine The and of warre lieth in the strength of armes not in the stoutnes of words EDMVND CAMPIAN The sixt Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers IF euer that saying a Iob. 5. search the Scriptures was loued and liked of by any which was greatly regarded and ought to be amongst vs the holy Fathers assuredly herein excelled and exceeded for by their labour and cost were the Bibles copied out and conueyed to so many countries and nations of strange languages by their great perils and torments were they deliuered from burning by the enemies and from destruction by their paines and teachings haue they been throughout expounded most faithfully they spent whole daies and nights in the study of holy Scriptures they preached out of euery Pulpit the holy Scriptures they enriched long volumes with holy Scriptures with most faithful Commentaries they explained the holy Scriptures they seasoned as well their feasting as their fasting with holy Scriptures And finally they exercised themselues euen vntill crooked old age crept vpon them in holy Scriptures And although they grounded their reasons also vpon the authority of their Auncestors vppon the common practise of the Church vpon the succession of Bishops vpon generall Councels vpon Traditions of the Apostles vpon the bloodshedding of Martyrs vpon the decrees of Preâ—â—â—s vpon strange signes and marnâ—â—â—â—us â—â—â—racles yet their greatest desire was especially to fill their treatises with store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures These they vrge vpon these they make their habitation to these Scriptures as vnto the coate b Cant. 4. armor of valiant souldiers they worthily yeeld the highest and most honorable place like noble captaines daily desending the Catholike Church which is the citie of God by them kept in good repaire against all mischeeuous assaults of her enemie the which thing maketh me the more to maruell at that proud and foolish exception of the aduersarie who like one that seeketh for water in the running riuer complaineth for the scarsity of Scriptures where greatest store of Scriptures are alleadged So long he saith he is content to be iudged by the Fathers as they swarue not from the Scriptures Doth he speake as he thinketh I will see then that these most famous writers most auncient Fathers and most holy men Saint Denys S. Cyprian S. Athanasius S. Basil S. Gregory Nazianzen S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Gregory the great shall come forth wel armed and vpholden with Christ with the Prophets with the Apostles and with the whole furniture of the Bible Grant good Lord that that religion may * And at this day the same faith flourisheth in England which those Fathers did had and defended raigne in England I say good Christ grant that that religion may raigne in England that these Fathers that embrace the Scriptures so louingly haue builded vp out of the Scriptures Looke what Scriptures they bring wee will bring the same looke what Scriptures they conferre we will conferre the same looke what Scriptures they alleadge we will alleadge the same Art thou also contented with this cough out Sir a Gods name and tell me plainly what you thinke I like them not thou wilt say except they interpret the said Scriptures rightly what meanest thou by saying rightly ô now I know after thy owne fancy Art thou not ashamed of this blind intreate dealing Then for as much as I am in good hope that in the foresaid Vniuersities that most freshly flourish there will ioyne together a great number of such as will looke into these controuersies not grosely but with sharpe iudgement and wil weigh these mens trifling answere not partially but in equall ballance I will therefore with a chearefull courage expect this day of battell as one that mindeth to march forward with the nobility force of Christs Church against a monkesâ— multitude of ragged Rogues WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the sixth Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers I Cannot wel coÌ„iecture Campion what these new foundations of the fathers may bee which you propound vnto vs. As touching the fathers we haue giuen you your answere and haue plainely prooued that they affoord no foundation for you to build your cause vpoÌ„ And it is probable that you thought so your self therefore you iudged it not safe for you to rest in them vnlesse you brought foorth certaine foundations by which you might strengthen the
new Sacraments new sacrifice and new doctrine of religion There hath not been found any one Historiographer either Latin or Greeke neither abroad nor at home which hath vouchsafed so much as to make a little note in his bookes of so notable a matter though it had been neuer so slenderly Wherefore this is a matter manifest enough if the Historie which is a faithfull witnes of antiquity and the life of memory do in many and sundry places copiously entreate and spoake of that faith which we professe and if no History at all since the creation of the world do affirme that that faith which the aduersaries do thrust vpon vs was 〈◊〉 allowed in the Catholike Church then are all the Historiographers on our part and the inuasions of the aduersaries are not friuolous and such as can make no man afraid except it bee first granted that all Christians throughout euery age haue fallen to grosse infidelity and consequently into the deepe pit of hell vntill that Frier Luther committed aduoutrie with the Nunne Katherine Bore WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the seauenth Reason which is the Historie NOw you call vs to Historie the witnes of times and reporter of Antiquity and all that haue taken paines in publishing the Ecclesiasticall Historie their names you set downe and like dumbe showes you carry them in great pompe as though Campian the particular naming of all that haue published any Historie were sufficient for the remembrance and searching out the monuments of Antiquitie What insolent new kind of Logicke is this to recken vp the Historians of the whole world and of particular countries and then conclude they are your owne Haue you of late from aboue procured this priuiledge that whatsoeuer you lay your hands vpon shall by and by become yours we haue long since perused the auncient Chronicles wherein the beginning and proceeding of the Church is set downe and we find not that they fauour you more then vs. If in them be some things against vs many moe and more waightie testimonies they haue against you and such as giue you a deadlie wound else would wee neuer haue collected the Histories of the auncient Church so accuratelie and diligentlie penning them exactlie and distinguishing the seuerall ages and times neither would wee haue published them in the world if they were so contrarie vnto vs as you surmise for who haue taken more paines to finde out or more faithfullie restored the Ecclesiasticall Histories then our men without whose labours many monuments of Antiquitie had been buried in darlinesse We therefore will neuer denie this triall of Antiquitie and seeing you appeale to auncient Histories wee condiscend yet with this caution that we be not tied to those things which were apparantly blemishes in the auncient Church Especially seeing that writers of Histories intending to make a natration of things done doe not so much teach vs what ought to bee done but haue an eye to that which was then performed and by that meanes set downe many things worthie of reprehension rather than imitation and for the most part it happens that Historiographers are possessed with the errors of the times wherein they writ and euer the later writer the more corrupt But here you exclaime that wee seeke euasions and very peruersly you slaunder vs that because wee doe not allowe all wee refuse all They that reforme what is amisse doe not blame the rest that is not faultie Striue while you list Campian and crie out of mazes and labyrinths at length will you nill you by the cares must wee bring you to the iudgement of the Scriptures And herein Campian you very much a DVR And vvhy may not Campian trumph for what impudencie is this to cry out that the Church of Rome is full of innumerable heresies and yet you cannot tell vvhen one of them euer began in vvhat Popes time by vvhat meanes hovv it increased in the Church WHIT. pag. 477. A good cause would be defended by reasons not raylings But doth it follow that the Church of Rome is not corrupt because wee cannot tell the moment of time when it began to be corrupt but being so manifest as it is what need we search the Histories to shew the beginning what I pray if you see a man sicke of the pestilence a citie corrupt with riote and wickednesse a house ruinous and readie to fall a shippe sincking will you deny all these vnlesse one can tell you the time when he began to be sicke the meanes how the city grew corrupt who vvas ovvnet and in vvhat yeare the house grevv ruinous and in vvhat daâ—e the shippe began first to leake And vvhat is the force of your reason and demaund other then this But doe not your owne Histories tell vvhen and by vvhom innouations and corruptions entred see a fevv of them Hee that first vsurped authoritie ouer other Churches vvas Pope Victor after him Zozimus Boniface Celestiue and theâ— successura Pope Syricius first foâ—bad Priests marriages The Manichies first denied the Cup to the people The Nicene Councell first ordained vvorshipping of Images Pope Nicolas the second first taught the bodie of Christ must carnally be handled broken and eaten Pope Jnnocent the third first established the doctrine of Transubstantiation Boniface the third that the Pope vvas the head of all Churches Gregorie the great taught Purgatorie first for a certeine truth The Florentine Councell that the Pope was aboue Councels Jnnocent the third brought in auricular confession If these vvere not sufficient I could produce sire hundred more triumph when you demaund at what time vnder what Bishop by what way and proceeding was a new religion spread ouer the Citie of Rome and the whole world and doe not doubt but that if any change and declining had been many writers would haue made mention of it or diuers or one at the least It is hard for vs to answere at what time neither is it necessarie to set downe the very instant of time All things were not at once ouerturned in the Church of Rome sinne and wickednes came to his height by degrees and by leisure to ripenes the haires of our head are not all gray of a suddaine neither doth any thing suddainely come to his maturitie and the growth of euery thing appeareth long after This is manifest in such things as hauing small beginning goe on forward vnto a greater quantitie vntill they come to perfection you cannot deny but there was a great alteration of Religion in the Church of b DVR It is not hard to knovv the heresies of the Ievves for Philastrius Epiphanius Iosephus haue vvritten of them WHIT pag. 484. It is as easie to know the heresies of Christians being more in the Christian Church then euer vvere in the Church of Ierusalem and of these also haue many bookes been vvritten Ierusalem what then was the change all at once shew vs then how those nouelties entred into the Church what time what way who
did he not teach that grace was inbred in nature and your Popish crevv defendeth the same who seeth not then Pelagius sitting in your triumphant chariot Romish Church seek for the auncient Church of Rome you shall neuer find it for shee hath now lost not the life only but the very colour and appearance of the true Church Seeing therefore all other things faile you and also Histories themselues on which you seemed much to relie helpe you nothing what remaineth but one of these two either must you yeeld before the battaile or die in the battaile I wish you would once at length take knowledge of that which Nazianzen writeth We haue learned it to bee commendable aswell to yeeld vnto reason as with reason to ouercome EDMVND CAMPIAN The eighth Reason which is the Paradoxes of our aduersaries WHen that most excellent men I reuolue in my mind amongst many heresies wherewith I haue to doe certaine moÌ„strous opinions of such as are fantasticallie giuen I could not but condemne my self of slouthfulnes and cowardlines if making triall thereof I should bee afraid of any mans actiuitie and strength let him be as eloquent as yee would wish let him be as much exercised as you would desire yea let him be one that hath throughly studied all sorts of books yet must he needs be to seeke both for matter and words also when he shall vndertake to maintaine those his vnpossible propositions as follow for if he perhaps will giue his consent we will dispute of God of Christ of Man of sinne of Iustice of Sacraments and of Manners I will trie whether they dare maintaine their opinions such sayings as they lingring after their owne lure haue bruted abroad by their writings God graunt they will acknowledge these their owne a De Deo Cal. Inst lib. 1. cap. 18. lib 2. cap. 4. lib. 3. cap. 23. 24. Pet. Mart. in 1. Sam. 2. Methanct in cap. Rom. 8. VVittem 1524. Sic docet Luther in asser 36. in resol asser 36. in lib. de ser arbit Praesat in anno Phil. In Apol. Eccl. Ang. Vide Ench. pre an 1543 axiomes * This is most false not any one of our men haue affirmed that God is the author of sinne God is the author and cause of sinne willing prompting making commaunding and working it and their gouerning the wicked counsels of naughty men * This is false we do not so compare togither The adultery of Dauid and the treason of the Traitor Iudas was as properly the worke of God as the calling of S. Paul was This monstrous doctrine whereof Philip Melancthon was once ashamed yet Martin Luther from whose brest Philip suckt the same as highly extolleth as though it had been some heauenly oracle and therefore matcheth his said scholler in a manner with the Apostle S. Paul I will demaund also what mind Luther was of whom the English Caluinists affirme to haue been a man sent from God to lighten the Word when hee razed out of the Letany vsed in the Church this verse O blessed Trinitie and one God haue mercy vpon vs then in order I will proceed to the person of o De Christ Inst lib. 1. c. 13. nu 23. 24. Beza in Hess Beza contra Schmidel lib. de vnit Hypost dua in Christ. nat Christ demaund of them what these Paradoxes meane whereas the Catholike Church holdeth that Christ is the Son of God and God of God * Christ is Son of the Father but God of himselfe Caluin saith that Christ is God of himselfe and Beza affirmeth that he was not begotten of the substance of the Father also be it agreed saith he that there are in Christ two vnions consisting in one substance the one of the soule with the flesh and the other of the Diuinity with the humanity That place of S. c Caluin in Ioh. 10. v. 30 Iohn I and the Father are one doth not proue that Christ is God of one substance with God the Father yea and my soule * This is false reade the answere saith d Luther cont Laton Luther cannot brooke this word Homouotin Proceed yee forward e Bucer in Lu. 2. Calu. in â—ar Eu. Christ from his infancie was not full of grace but daily encreased in gifts of the mind as other men vsually doe and waxed wiser through experience euery daie more then other so that in his childhood he was subiect to f Luth. Loss Hem. Mela. in Euang. de 1. post Epist Marl. in Matt. 26. Cal. in Har. Euan Brentius in Luc. par 2. Hom. 65. in Catech. an 1551. in Ioh. Hom. 54. ignorance which is all one as if they should say that Christ was corrupted with the spot and staine of * This is false for all ignorance riseth not from originall corruption originall sinne But listen and you shall know more pernitious doctrine then this Christ when he praied in the garden and plentifully sweat both water and blood trembled through feare and sensiblie feeling of eternall damnation vttered certaine speeches without reason and without consent of the inward spirit yea speeches without consideration through the vehemencie of his griefe the which speeches as vnaduisedly spoken he quickly corrected Is there any more such stuff giue diligeÌ„t eare Christ wheÌ„ he cried out with a loud voice hanging on the Crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me was tormented with the flames of hell fire he let ouer-slip * This is false neither Birutius nor any of our men euer said so him g Caluin in Har. Euang. in eand sent Loss in Matth. 26. desperate speeches being no otherwise affectioned then if he should haue died an eternall death if they haue any worse stuffe then this let them emptie their gorge Christ they saie descended into hell that is Christ after he was dead tasted of the paines of hell nowhit h Schmidel conci de Pass câ—â—ua Dom. Aepinus Com. in Psal 16. lesse then the damned soules doe sauing that he was to be restored againe for as much as by his corporall death he could haue profited vs nothing it was therefore requisit that his i Caluin Instit lib. 2. cap. 16. Bren. in Catechis 1551. soule also should striue with eternall death and in this manner to tolerate the paine and paye the ransome of our sins And lest peraduenture any man should suspect that this escaped Caluin by ouersight the said k Instit lib. 2 cap. 16. nu 12. Caluin calleth you all forlorne knaues if any of you haue debated vpon this * They who deny this doctrine to be full of comfort may worthily be accounted desperate men comfortable doctrine oh cursed times oh cursed daies what miserable doctrine haue you bred vp Hath that precious and princely blood which gushed out of the torne pierced side of that most innocent Lambe Christ Iesus euery little drop of which blood for the worthines
impossibilities that al men may perceiue they were ascribed to vs by you most falsly and most impudently I do craue not only of all men of our Vniuersities but also of all ChristiaÌ„s that haue care of true religion and of their owne saluation that they will not suffer themselues to be misled by any lies and impostures of the aduersarie from that holy doctrine which they haue learned Wherefore I will set vpon these your monsters Campian that after I haue stopt your mouth being ful of blasphemy both the glory of God which is in hand and our innocency which is oppugned may be preserued from your violence You say the disputation shall be if they please of God of Christ of Man of Sinne of Righteousnes of the Sacraments of Manners But we are readie to dispute with you not only about these but also about other points which are now in difference of the Scripture of the Church of the Bishop of Rome of Transubstantiation of Freewill of Indulgences of Purgatorie and of the rest of your doctrines Neuerthelesse either many are deceiued or else you do rather thinke of fighting then disputing And I hope that you shall once haue freedome granted you for that disputation which you so often desire But now let vs attend how you endeuour to make vs know these positions of our men God say you is the willing Of God suggesting efficient commaunding and working author and cause of sinne and such a one as therein gouerneth the impious counsels of the wicked It is an horrible thing and not to be vttred Campian that any one should make God the author of sinne such an one were worthy to be smitten instantly by the Lord with a thunderbolt into the deepest pit of hell If a DVR But if I do not shew that Caluin is the maintainer of this so horrible ablasphemy I refuse no punishment for so great a slaÌ„der thus he writeth Instit lib. 1. cap. 18. sect 1. Absolom defiling his fathers bed with incest committed a detestable crime yet God pronounceth that this was his worke WHIT pag. 525. I wonder that there is any maÌ„ found like to Campian who will â—uow that to be said and defended by our men which they haue euer most plainly condemned as Melanct. on Rom. 1. c. Pet. Mart on Iudg 9. and Caluin on Iam. 1. vers 13. Beza against Castellio of eternall predestination for touching these words which you obiect to Caluin what doth he affirme but that which the Scripture hath deliuered 2. Sam 12.11.12 vnlesse perhapâ— you will deny that to be Gods deed which God himselfe witnesseth to be his Neither will your sophisme follow hereupon ergo God is the author of sin for Caluin ascribeth not the sinne but the worke to God For if in that incest you can consider nothing but sinne it must bee imputed to your ignorance Caluin or Martyr or Philip or Luther or any of vs do affirme it I do not denie but we are all guilty of horrible blasphemie and impiety If I would largely prosecute this whole cause which you doe but touch I should make no end therfore I will declare in few words both what we teach and wherein you lie We professe not only that God is good but also goodnes it self yea good in himself in his owne esseÌ„ce in whom there is no euill from whom nothing but good can come who is so good that all his doings be very good and that not so much as any of his thoughts can be euil These things we speake these things we teach these things we beleeue with our harts and confesse with our mouthes Seeing therefore God is so perfectly good that all his things be in a certaine excellent manner good it hath been in times past inquired and most grauely disputed wheÌ„ce that euil sprung which had spread so far what might be the cause of this euill This question Augustine often handled because of the Mâ—nichies In 12. quest 79. art 1. 2. and therein also Thomas of Aquine imployed himselfe much and diligently Wee say that this euill was brought in by the b DVR But Caluin saith that when the Diuel moueth men to sinne hee is rather the instrument of God than thâ— author oâ— sinne Instit lib. 2. cap. 4. Ser. 5. WHIT pag. 528. This allegation is full of slander This is Caluins meaning that albeit the Diuell be rather an instrument than the author of the action yet hee is the supreme and chiefe of the sinne in the action Diuell who although hee were made good in the beginning by the Lord yet by his freewill he made defection from the Lord and sinned â—nd did perswade and was the author vnto man to commit sin from hence whatsoeuer is sin either in the diuels or in men did wholy flow and not any the least peece of it had being from God whom we do maintaine by infinite testimonies of Scripture to be the author of no c DVR But what is more often in the mouth of Caluin all Caluinists â—hen this that God doth not only permit but will sinne that he doth moue and thrust vs forward to sinne nay that be doth by the efficacie of his will impose a necessity of sinning vpon vs WHIT. pag. 529. God willeth sinne but not simplie and so farre forth as it is sinne but as it is a chastisement so 1. Pet. 4.19 and God doth stirre vp and moue that sinne which lieth hidde in vs yet he doth not frame or put sinne into vs as the Physitian is not the author of dâ—seases when he purgeth out the most corrupt humours And man not indued with the holy Ghost falleth of his ovvne accord into a necessity of sinning so as he sinneth not by any fault of God but by his ovvne fault sinne and so do teach it in our schooles and Churches Psal 44. Zach. 8.17 Gen. 18.25 1. Ioh. 1.5 For he hateth sin he loueth righteousnes he which is the Iudge of the whole earth it must needs be that he is euery way most iust God is light and there is no darknes in him And these are the things which wee teach the people concerning God that all may vnderstand hee is a most seuere reuenger of all sinnes Now then Campian with what face dare you seeing you know these to bee our doctrines impute vnto vs such a slaÌ„der not to be vttred in so much as you affirme that we speake and thinke things flat contrary But you say Caluin and Martyr haue taught this this thing Nay rather they are wholy bent vpoÌ„ this that they maintaine that can by no meanes bee It would be long to set down their words I do beseech the Reader to reade with an attentiue and peaceable mind these same very places which Campian hath abused vnto slander And if they doe not both deny most plainly that God is the author and cause of sin and also if they do not proue that they
in corners that Christ is reproched when wee say he was tormented with so great griefes of minde But it is so farre off Campian that I doe either denie or dissemble those things which you now obiect that I doe teach and auow them openly and freely And though the whole nation of Iesuits should set vpon me yet I will neuer be ashamed to celebrate Christs mercie which I see to bee violated by them with vnspeakable iniuries For what thinke you was it that Christ felt which brought so great sadnes and vexation to him that it wrung from him a bloody sweate was it only death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which takes away life and sense Doe you thinke that Christ could be broken so with the feare of that death that he should conceiue so much griefe in his minde to make him sweate water and blood for the desire he had to escape tasting of that cup which hee came to drinke of Did Christ so much abhorre this death which the Martyrs haue gone vnto ioyfull and cheerefull That were indeede to cast a greater reproch vpon Christ while ye would auoide the lesser Wherefore that which raised so great horrors in Christ was the most bitter wrath of God against mankinde which Christ must needes haue suffered for a time For the whole weight of our sinnes was imposed vpon Christ which brought with it a most heauie remembrance of Gods wrath Seeing therefore Christ our Mediatour being laden with our sins did suffer the greatnes of Gods displeasure and did alone endure the punishment of our sinnes certainly he did quake as man and did expresse those incredible sorrowes of his minde many waies Hence came that speech vpon the Crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me which he vttered not fainedly but from his heart not despairingly as you wickedly write but vpon the consideration of Gods wrath which then he was to be subiect vnto m DVR Christ truly was the Sonne of God who knew nothing in himselfe worthie of wrath and so could not feare the paines of hell WHIT. pag. 558. You dispute wittily as if he were not the Sonne of Man also and sustained the person of sinfull men Neither did he so feare hell as you imagine but when the punishment of vs all was vpon him alone he must needs as a man be greatly affected and moued with it For God was exceedingly incensed against vs for our sinnes Christ interposed himselfe and he alone vnâ—erwent the greatnes of that wrath powred vpon him he therfore that saith Christ felt nothing diminisheth the greatnes of sin the iustice of God and the merit of Christ I hat he was not swallowed vp of those torments it must be imputed to the power of his diuine nature DVR But how could hee thinke himselfe forsaken of God vvho offered himselfe vvholy to God WHIT. pag. 559. If be did nor feele this defection why did hee say vainely and rashly that he was forsaken he oâ—â—ed himselfe by his eternall spirit that is his Diuinity Hebr. 9.14 Therefore this freewill offering did not hinder but that he might feele in his mind those sorrowes which men should haue suffered This is that Hell of which Christ while he was aliue and not as you obiect against Caluin after he was dead did taste And certainly this vexation which Christ endured at that time did equall after a sort the very paines of hell But these things are reproued by you because they bee not vnderstood For the Papists with their dull hearts cannot conceiue what Christ performed for vs by his death and what paines hee endured for the satisfying of his Father Therefore they thinke wrong is done to Christ when we say he suffered those things which hee both would and ought to haue suffered for vs. For it was necessarie not onely that Christ should die in n DVR Christ being God and man satisfied the diuine iustice not by the greatnes and multitude of his punishment but by the weight of his actions euerie one of vvhich is sufficient to be a full price of mans redemption Neither vvas it necessary that Christ should vndergoe the same punishment vvhich man should haue suffered as if any man vvould free another from prison vvho is cast into it for debt it is not necessary that be go into prison for him Besides who will say that the body of man aid sinne it is man that sinneth not the bodie WHIT. pag. 562. See I pray you what followeth vpon your defence that it was needlesse that Christ should die at all for if any action of him being God and man would haue satisfied Gods iustice and wrought mans redemption in vaine did hee shead his blood and suffer death But if this be contrary to the decree iustice of God and not euery punishment but extreame sufferings both of body and soule was to be vndergone as Christ suffered in his body the most bâ—â—ter â—eath so did he in his soule exquisite and extreame sorrowes And out of your similitude it will follow â—s well that he need not to haue descended from heauen to haue been made man or to haue suffered any sorrowes and yet who knoweth not that not only the debtors themselues but their suâ—â—ies must be cast into prison till the creditor be saâ—â—fied And seeing that in such a suerty as this not the bare payment of money but a reall suffering of grieuous paines was necessary why should we doubt but Christ hath most truly accomplished the part of a suertie Lastly if the bodie doe not sinne why should it suffer the punishment of sinne for is it equall that the body which in your iudgment doth not sinne should be grieuously and eternally punished for sinne And if it bee as you say that the man doth sinne then must the body haue a finger in it for the soule of it selfe is not a man And if Christ tooke mans sinne vpon him it was certainly the sin of the whole man because he hath redeemed the whole bodie but also in his soule wrastle with death because not onely mans bodie but also his soule had offended God and deserued euerlasting death And they that speak against this doctrine being very full of diuine comfort if Caluin doe prosecute somewhat eagerly no good man ought iustly to bee displeased with him for this cause But that you cannot abide and therefore you cry out Oh wicked daies oh monstrous times It may be you haue seene a monster at Rome or rather many monsters which trouble you now with furious thoughts and vrge you to make an outcrie But we Vniuersitie men are not woont much to bee moued with the clamours of mad men For he ouercomes in the Schooles not who can crie out most shrilly but who caÌ„ dispute most sitly vnto the truth But I pray you Campian spare your voyce a while and gather your wits together and then I trust you will be somewhat milder anon when you haue rested you a
little for I doe not heare that this is the continuall dint of your minde and I doe not doubt but you may bee pacified with words You say that Christ hath contumelious iniurie offered him by vs. Wherefore because he is by this meanes too much abased and much is detracted from his Maiestie Concerning that Nazianzen answers you Is Christ therefore spoiled of his honour Nazianz. because hee is become humble for thy sake Now how great bitternes of griefe Christ felt learne of Rabanus Rabanus in Catena Thoma if happely you regard him Thus doth he expound those words of Christ Why hast thou forsaken mee Our Sauiour saith he spake this carrying about him our affections who being in danger thinke our selues to be forsaken For his humane nature was forsaken because of sinne but because the Sonne of God was made our Aduocate he bewailes their miserie whose fault he tooke vpon him And Hierome though he did differ from this opinion because of the Arrians Hieronym yet the very power of truth did wring frō him some confession Concerning Christs prayer wherein he entreated that that cup might be taken away thus he writeth Neuerthelesse returning to himselfe that which he had refused somewhat fearefully in his nature as man he ratifieth in his nature as he was God and the Sonne Yet not as I will but as thou wilt saith he let not this be done which I speake in my humane affection but that for which I came downe to the earth by thy will Ambrosius And Ambrose vseth these words to Gratian As he tooke my will so he tooke my sorrow Finally Melch. Canus lib. 12. cap. 13. I will annexe the iudgement of Melchior Canus to whom you owe much on good cause that you may know the opinion of a flat Catholike touching this matter Surely saith he it was conuenient that the Sonne of God being to exhibite himselfe a sacrifice for sinne should take vpon him not onely the sorrowes of the bodie and of the sensitiue facultie of the soule but also the o DVR But it followeth not that so he did dispaire or feele the paines of hell WHIT. pag. 564. There was no dāger lest Christ might perchance despaire nor is it necessary that whosoeuer sustaineth the paines of hell for a while the same should bee ouerwhelmed with perpetuall despaire many of the godly are sometime afflicted with a very deepe sense of Gods anger which they yet ouercome through Gods spirit much more then could Christ ouercome all the paines of hell torments of the spirit and the griefe of the will to the end that that most acceptable sacrifice to God for all our sinnes might be by all meanes broken and bruised And a little after Hee being forsaken of God and destitute vtterly of all comfort did not reioyce You say that Bucer in comparison of this madnes was modest although hee were very impudent who takes Hell in the Creed for the graue I let passe your reproch which you lacke not in any place nor am I disposed to extend any longer answere about this Hell The matter is in some difference among learned men who albeit they agree not so well among themselues about the thing yet they agree herein excellent well in that they affirme that the Papists doe very wickedly vnderstand it of Christs descent into Hell For as for Hell whether it signifie the buriall of Christ as Bucer thought or that sorrowe of minde wherewith Christ was affected a little before his death as Caluin would haue it yet we retaine the Article and we teach that Christ did descend into Hell If that cannot bee otherwise vnderstood than thus that Christ did descend into I know not what Limbus Patrum wherein you suppose the Fathers to haue been and that hee did out of that place bring with him an infinite multitude of holy men I will confesse that Bucer did erre and that Caluin made a foule slip But those your dreames concerning Hell are worthie to be buried in Hell it selfe Now as for that you say that it was in deliberation in a certaine conuenticle at London how that article might bee taken out of the Creed this certainly is the first time that euer I heard of it neither doe I giue any credit either to your selfe or to your wretched Cheiny who told you this tale Although if the ancient Creeds of the Romane and East Church did lacke that Article as hee affirmeth whosoeuer hee is that in Cyprians workes expounded the Creed with his Commentaries perhaps their fault was p DVR Js it a small fault to crosse out of the Apostles Creed Christ his descension into hell It is solid in the Creed of Athanasius where there is mention of buriall and in the Nicene Creed when his buriall is mentioned this descension is not expressed And who seeth not that it was necessary that his soule must descend into the common place of other soules WHIT. pag. 568. If it be a haynous fact to put out this article then the Church of Rome which you say cannot erre is guiltie of this as Ruffinus writeth in exposit Symb. And it is no strange thing when in very few auncient Creeds it is to be found I could produce fiftie Creeds which haue it not in certaine it is found but then saith Ruffinus it must be vnderstood by the precedent article for it is the same with that which saith he was buried And this was Bucers opinion which the two Creeds of Athanasius and Nice do confirme for if they be so diuersly set downe that in some of them is mention of his buriall only in others only of his descension it is manifest that there is one and the same sense in them and that to be buried is as much as to descend into hel and this as much as that Finallie it is true his soule went into the common receptacle of soules but how proue you that that place is in hell for if his soule went into Paradise it could not go into hell vnlesse Paradise be there lesse which would imitate the Church of Rome which you hold cannot erre Of Man Now you make your question concerning man and you bring vs in speaking on this fashion The image of God is vtterly blotted out in man no sparke of good being left For so say you haue Illyricus and Caluin taught I know well the iudgement of Illyricus which I doe not thinke ought to bee laide to our charge For you are not ignorant Campian that his opinion touching the image of God and of the nature of originall sinne hath been reprooued and confuted by our men he went somewhat farther than he should I beleeue he did it that he might remooue himselfe farthest off from you whom hee throughly hated But I would he had amended some things then certainely had he been a very excellent man As for Caluin you doe him open wrong whom you ioyne with Illyricus in the fellowship of this
any do denie to be good and holy he may well be held blasphemous against the holy Ghost As for that you both faine that we speake these things and also expresse for what cause wee speake them you bewray your wonderfull wisedome which for those things that are not at all can set downe a reason wherefore they be But we doe willingly preach faith and doe easily permit it to bee contemned of you For you that defend nature against grace and doe trust rather to your owne power than to Christs mercie and doe make voide the promises by precepts cannot haue an honourable opinion of faith You neuer keepe your standing Of Sinne. Campian and you begin the battaile like a runnaway For you haue a wandring and vnstable wit as it seemeth You oppose Illyricus to vs againe in the same cause whose testimonie ought not to be of force against vs. For herein I professe my selfe no lesse an aduersarie to him than your selfe I had almost said than to your selfe For what an vniust and vnreasonable thing is it that you should taxe that opinion as defended by vs which your selfe knoweth to be condemned by our Churches Obiect our owne opinion to vs Campian if you can obiect any wee are not such as that we should thinke whatsoeuer Illyricus could as being a man erre in did any whit concerno vs. But either Illyricus must needes be drawne into this taxation or else this place was quite to be left voide by you For beside Illyricus I thinke you haue no man that thinkes so If you desire to know our opinion of this matter I confesse indeed that that defence of Illyricus did seeme euer very absurd to me For it both smels of the follie of the Manichies and it maketh two soules in a regenerate man and which is a greater matter it destroyes the soule That was alwaies the iudgemeÌ„t of the Catholike Church which I professe to be ours that the substance of the soule was not quite slaine by sinne but onely charged and infected with vitious qualities and that sinne is no inward substance of the soule but an r DVR The Catholike Church neuer beleeued that sinne was an accident or qualitie but only a priuation for if it were an accident God should be the cause and author of it WHIT. pag. 573. But this priuation is it not an accidentall thing vvhy then make you a scruple in vvords vvhen you vnderstand the sense An accident is commonly called that vvhich is in some substance but is no part of it vvhich may either be absent or present without the corruption of the subiect and such a thing euery man knovveth sinne is And though I confesse that the nature of sinne consisteth in a priuation yet it is not a bare priuation as you may learne ouâ— of your Thomas For. 1.2 quaest 82. art 1. he saith sinne is not a meere priuation but a corrupt habit like vnto a disease vvhereby not only health is taken avvay but bad humours are brought vpon the bodie And the Schoole men vvhen they make priuation of originall iustice to be the forme of originall sinne and the matter to be concupiscence or a corrupt inclination of the faculties of the soule vvhat doe they teach but that in sinne there is some positiue thing as Thomas vseth to call it But vvhy do I endeuour to refell you for vvhom Physike is fitter then a refuration As for your reason it hath no force for God is not to be accounted the author of all accidencies but indirectly and by accident Basil saith That the roote and cause of sinne is in our selues euen our freewill accident Å¿ DVR Basil saith not that sin is an accident or a quality but an affection coÌ„trary to vertue WHIT. pag. 575. Then must it be somevvhat for nothing cannot be contrarie to vertue Basill writeth truly in that hee denieth that sinne is any liuing substance or indued with a soule Basil iâ—ubâ—â—p hons 2. August de nuptijs lib. 1. cap. 25. but a qualitie contrarie to the vertue of the soule Augustine t DVR Augustine vvill accuse you for slandering him because he spake not of sin but of concupiscence vvhich he accounted to be no sinne WHIT. pag. 576. Doth Augustine account concupiscence no sinne vvhy then calleth he it an affection of an euill quality vvhy doth he compare it to a disease vvhy doth he demaund the question hovv concupiscence should remaine in the regenerate vvhose sinnes are all remitted if it vvere not a sinne his ansvvere proueth it yet more fully For he saith concupiscence is remitted in Baptisme not that it should be no sinne at all as you vvould haue it but that it should not be imputed for a sinne If it vvere no sinne hovv could it be imputed for a sinne Finally August cont â—ulian lib. 5 cap. 3. affirmeth that it is a sinne and a punishment of sin and a cause of sinne and that in the regenerate It is manifest in the place that he speaketh of that concupiscence against vvhich the spirit lusteth and vvhich in vvithout the consent of the vvill It at any time he denie it to be a sinne it iâ— not simplie but in opposition to actuall sinne for hovv should that be nothing vvhich is remitted in Baptisme vvhich Christ satisfied for by his blood or is God angry vvith vs for nothing It must therfore needs be sin Originall sinne saith he remaineth not substantially as it were some bodie or spirit but it is a certaine affection of an euill qualitie like a disease Finally Ambrose most plainly Ambros in Rom. 6. c. 7. u DVR Ambrose his vvords refell your error WHIT. pag. 577. Nay they refell your error For hee saith it is a straying from good Novv this straying is an action and not a meere priuation And you your selues earnestly defend that sin is an action If it be an action then an accident then no meere priuation theÌ„ not nothing How dwelleth sin in the flesh seeing it is no substance but a straying from good Therfore let vs if you please send away the suspition of this error imposed by you vpon vs to the author himselfe As for that you adde that it is a thing commonly held by this filthie sect that all sinnes be equall verily nothing could be spoken more impudently Pardon me Campian if I answere you somewhat sharpely for your vnmodest and intolerable impudencie wrung that terme from me Are you so far spent that you are not able to charge vs with any true crime but shamelessely to obiect those things against vs from which we of all others are farthest off For who did euer more vehemently disallow or more strongly confute this paradoxe of the Stoiks than our Diuines whom you now pursue All records of these times may be witnesses hereof our bookes Churches and Schooles be witnesses as also both the ciuill and Church Discipline may be a witnesse Did you thinke that you could creepe
into the minds of our Vniuersitie men by these meanes by lying so openly so shamefully and so boldly O Rome what a Campian hast thou returned to vs how much chaunged from him that he was when thou receiuedst him Art thou wont so to instruct adorne and polish thy pensioners as that they retaine nothing of their auncient shamefastnes What may I complaine of or to whom should I appeale surely euen to the very same our Vniuersitie men to whom you your selfe write they may conuince you by their testimonies For within these two yeares our Cambridge men haue heard this very matter twise propounded and defended in the diuinity Schooles That sinnes are not equall If neither our owne confession nor the testimonie of all mortall men can make enough for the defending of our innocencie be it that we are Stoikes and heretikes and euery thing else But these are * DVR Herein Caluin made sinnes equall for that hee thought all sins to be deadly and vvorthy of euerlasting punishment WHIT. pag. 578. Therefore doth Caluin make all sinnes equall because hee proueth that all sinner are in their owne nature deadly but the Scripture hath taught this most plainly For if euery sinne be the transgression of Gods law and an auersion defection from God which is the chiefest good it must needs in it selfe deserue eternal death Rom. 6.21.23 Iam. 2.10 though euery sinne in Gods iustice is odiudged to eternall death yet it doth not equally deserue it Caluins words saith Campian howsoeuer with an exception if they be pondered by God the Iudge What are these the words of Caluin that he saith sinnes are equall but so if they be weighed by God the Iudge nothing lesse for Gods iudgements could not be right if so be he did iudge sinnes to be equall But marke yee a singular witnesse The Fathers of the Councell of Trent pronounce a curse on them who affirme that a iust man doth sin either mortally or venially in euery good worke To this Caluin answereth that which Salomon saith Antidot 6. Sess in Can. 25. that man thinketh his owne waies right but God pondereth the hearts But in the iudgement of God nothing is sincere and honest but that which floweth from the perfect loue of him Caluin speaketh not one word of the equalitie of sins nor was there any cause why he should Only this he intendeth if the Lord would weigh in his ballance the excellentest works of godly men that he would easily find what to coÌ„demne what is this to the purpose As for that that Thomas Walsingham did obiect against Wicliffe it is not much materiall he wrote many things against Wicliffe being dead and let passe no slander which witty malice could deuise While Wicliffe was aliue no aduersaries could hurt him but being dead they condemned him they plucked him out of his graue burned his body when they might without danger deuise any thing against that most holy man Neither can I euer be induced to beleeue that Wicliffe taught these things if this imputation depend vpon no greater credit than of an aduersarie As touching that that you report of the Duke of Guise I defend not the fact he that committed it suffered punishmeÌ„t greater I wis than Tauerners are wont that kill pullen when there is no need I confesse that the Guise was a man of admirable fortitude I would he had been of more clemencie He was flaine euen as you say by a wicked man whom if perhaps either hope of impunity or feare of punishment did induce that being examined hee did accuse verie noble and innocent men it is neither marueilous nor new Him that he did appeach as the Ringleader of his plot the King himselfe did pronounce an innocent but as for Beza all good men haue acquitted him in their iudgements long ago From Sinne you passe your speech to Grace Of Grace I would rather you your selfe did make passage and you hope that we who are so strict in the matter of sin will play the Philosophers so gloriously about Gods Grace Surely we shall thinke we play the Philosophers very well if we referre all our Philosophie for the amplifying of the Crosse of Christ Gal. 6.14 You also do treate of Grace but as still you are wont in few words But what do you reproue in our Philosophie because we place Grace out of vs only in the fauouer of God For you Campian would haue your men to be perswaded that we take all Grace from man and doe place it only in the mind of God like Platoes Idea But either you know not what you talke of in this place and that you are ignorant of this Philosophie or els you suffer not our opinion being infolded in your slanders to bee manifest For wee make grace to bee twofold that I may omit many distinctions wherein wee doe not disallow the Philosophie of your Schoole men For either Grace declareth the free goodwill and clemencie of God toward vs or else it signifieth those gifts which flow out of that mercy of God to vs. That they commonly call Grace making acceptable and this Grace freely giuen Now for that x DVR I know vvell your doctrine of imputatiue iustice than vvhich I know not whether any man can deuise one thing more against the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 582. Thus you speake like a Iesuite but vvhat is there that the Scripture doth more celebrate than imputatiue iustice Rom. 4.3.4.5.6 is a most cleere text for it But what know you not that our sins were imputed to Christ and why then may not Christs righteousnes be imputed to vs in lâ—ke manner Thinke you that Christ had our sinnes really infused into him I suppose you will neuer say so seeing then in the one part you are compelled against your will to confesse an imputation why do you not also grant it in the other specially seeing the Apostle himselfe propoundeth vs this Antithesis 2. Cor. 5.21 Christ vvas made sinne for vs that we might be made the righteousnes of God in him Therefore we are so made righteousnes in Christ as he was made sinne for vs which must necessarily bee vnderstood of imputation And veâ—â—ly whereas our iniustice or iniquitie is a debt and Christ hath payed it then must it of necessity follow that that payment is ours no otherwise then only by imputation Againe I pray you what can bee imagined more absurde then that the meritâ— of Saints should be imputed vnto vs and Christ his righteousnes cannot bee for they who buy indulgences with money doe not doubt but to reape much fruit from the merits of others It then the merits of Saints as you thinke can make them more iust in whom they are not inherent what an impious and absurd thing were it to giue lesse power of imputation to the merits and righteousnes of Christ DVR Charity iâ— the end of the Law Rom. 13. For he that loueth his brother hath fulfilled the Lavv. So that
to be vâ—righteousnes if it be rightly iudged of Now he that calleth our rigeteousnes vnrighteousnes what saith he else then that which Luther said That there is some sinne in euery good vvorke This Paradoxe therefore Luther learned our of the Scriptures and auncient Fathers But to come to your slender reasons If thou take a vvife thou sinnest not I answere heere is a fallacie For we say not to marrie a wise is sinne but that they vvho marrie wiues intermixe some sinne in that good action And to the place of S. Peter I say that there you vse also a fallacy for to fall in that place signifieth to fall away wholy and altogether from grace and saluation For the place of S. Iohn vve meane not that good workes are sinnes but that they haue some sinne mixed with them For it followeth not that siluer is drosse because it hath some drosse mingled with it And Christ came not to the end there should be no sinne left in his Saints whilest they liue here but that he might take away the guilt of sinne And what if S. Paul hath compared our good workes to siluer gold or precious stones Know you not that euen in the best mettals and in such stones there may some drosse be found But the Apostle compareth sound doctrine to these things than which there is nothing more precious if it be kept pure and incorrupted The Prophets and Apostles do well to exhort vs to doe good workes but if they bid vs do our duty doth it therefore follow that vvee may not commit some sinne in doing thereof Last of all touching your demaund concerning faith you bewray your ignorance for we are not iustified by faith as it is a worke or action of ours for it is imperfect but because it is as the hand wherby we lay hold on Christ and Christ calleth faith a worke either by imitation or because it is the worke of the holy Ghost that kindleth it in our hearts Luther said this and hee saide it truely For in euery action of a man l DVR Therefore no action can euer be either excellent or good VVell said Dionysius That that vvhich is good must nâ—edes come of a cause perfectly good WHIT. pag. 701. Is there any so dull as to say that there is no health not soundnes in the body at all because there is onlie some thing in the body not so sound as it should be As for Dionysius he speaketh of that entire and perfect good which we neuer attaine to in this life For as long as the flesh lusteth against the spirit there can be no such entire good in vs proceeding from entire and perfect causes though neuer so excelleÌ„t there is some fault which may wholy marre the action and make it odious to God if that which is done bee weighed in the ballance of diuine iustice But after that the Lord hath receiued vs wholy to fauour in Christ those things which are but begun in vs besprinkled with some blots m DVR VVhat a monstrous speech is this Is it possible that euen sinnes should please God WHIT. pag. 702. Can you put no difference betvveene the corruption of the action and the action it selfe A good father loueth the obedience and dutie of his sonne vvhich he knovveth neuerthelesse is not such as it ought to be and how much more doth God accept the slender and vveake endeuours of his children yet they please him as if they were entire and pure because he looketh vpon our persons and he doth not make search into the worth and merit of the worke These things spake Luther and confirmed them by the sentences of sacred Scriptures and holy Fathers which you could much more easilie passe by than confute Goe forward No man of himselfe thinketh euill This is maliciously obiected as are all the rest God doth throw into no man an euill thought he compelleth the will of none to sinne yet nothing is done by chaunce or fortune and in the very sinnes of men the prouidence of God ruleth Those thoughts of men which are euill spring out of a certaine inbred naughtines proper to euery one and yet the Lord can applie them to his owne will For so Ioseph answereth his brethren Ye thought euill against me but the Lord turned it to good Gen. 50.20 Now you adde n DVR Then vvhy ansvvered Christ the yong man in the Gospell vvith this keepe the CoÌ„mandements And hovv doe theeues and adulterers sinne or hovv is it a sinne novv to omit the duties of the morall Lavv more then to omit offering vp of sacrifices WHIT. pag. 703. That vvhich Christ ansvvered to the yong man Matth. 19.17 may vvell bee said vnto you For you seeke righteousnes by the Lavv vvherefore keepe the Lavv if you vvill enter into life But here you shall find no vvay to enter Luther nor any of vs euer denied that the Lavv pertaineth vnto Christians For the righteousnes of the Lavv is eternall and euery man ought vvith all endeuour to frame his life according to the same But it is one thing to bee bound by the Lavv and another thing to conforme and frâ—me our liues by the rule of the Lavv. Wherfore theeues do sinne and are iustly punished and much more they that establish the ceremonies of Moses Lavv vvhich are vvholy abrogated The decalogue belongeth not to Christians God doth not care for our workes Touching the decalogue and workes this answere I make you briefely In the law the olde couenant is contained Doe this and liue Gal. 3.10 Deut. 27.26 o DVR Moses denounceth not the cursse against the breaches of euery small precept but to those only vvhich he there reckoneth vp vvhich vvere certainly very haynous sinnes WHIT. pag. 708. If that curse be only proper to those vvho are guilty of the sinnes there numbred and set dovvne vvhat shall vve then thinke of blasphemers adulterers and of other horrible malefactors are they free from this cursse if this be impious and absurde then must it be vnderstood of all euen as many as do transgresse the Lavv. And so S. Paul interpreteth the place vvho vndoubtedly vnderstood the meaning of Moses better then all Iesuites For he instructing the Galathians as concerning the iustice of the Lavv proueth by this testimonie Gal. 3.10 that none can be iustified by the vvorks of the Lavv but he that continueth in all things Either then deny that any lavv vvas vvritten touching small offences or else confesse that that cursse belongeth to the least offences If the Apostle had vnderstood it as you doe the Galathians might haue ansvvered him that they vvere free from those great sinnes and so from the cursse and therefore might vvell hope to be iustified by the Lavv. Finally if Gal. 3.13 Christ hath freed vs from the cursse of the Law shall vve thinke that this is only from the cursse due to a fevv grieuous sinners I hope by this time you see
also happily at thy commaund though not to be drawne with thy hand speaking to the Pope WHIT. pag. 747. Duraeus is ashamed of this sophisme buâ— yet he fathereth it vpon Bernard which also Iohannes a Capistrano of the Pope and Councels p 77. and others of them haue handled and Pope Boniniface girt himselfe with a sword in signe hereof but this place speaketh nothing at all for any such power Pope must beare both swords The seruant is not aboue his master therefore i DVR What Catholike euer taught or wrote thus howbeit the Fathers of the Sinuessan Councell said The chiefe seate is iudged of no man WHIT. pag. 749. Thus you will make the Pope no Catholike who saith Dist 40. si Pâ—pa The Pope may bee reproued of no mortall man though he leade with him innumerable people vnto hell And who knoweth not these two pillers of Popery the Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth and the Pope may not be accused whatsoeuer â—e doth The Bishops of the Sinuessan Synode spake to Marcellinus the Pope who had denied Christ and committed Idolatrie and might bee accused by the Popes owne lawes so that in citing that authoritie you contradict both your selfe and your lawes it is lawfull for no man to accuse or reproue the Pope Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile him k DVR Christ made Peter his Vicar on earth and by his prayer obtained that his Vicars faith might not faile by force vvherof the Pope cannot erre as Augustine and Cyprian also perceiued WHIT pag. 750. It is not true that Christ made Peter his Vicar nor doth it follow Peters faith failed not therefore no Popes faith hath failed who are his successors for Popes haue done and may fall into heresies as you will confesse and may erre in faith saith Pope Boniface Dâ—st 40. Papa which he could not do it this argument of yours vvere true Further Christ prayed for all his Apostles and the whole Church shal we say Christs prayer was lesse effectuall for the rest then for Peter If it be not then none of their successors could erre no more then Peters which I suppose you will not affirme And Augustine and Cyprian neuer reasoned as you do you abuse their names therefore the Pope cannot erre The vulgar people commeth seldome and negligently to the Lords Supper l DVR If you beleeued the Prophet Malachie or the Masse you vvould confesse this argument to be good WHIT pag. 753. You can neuer proue your Masse by the Prophet Malachie who speaketh of the prayers of the godly as Tertullian Eusebius and Jerome expound him and if the Masse were a sacrifice indeed as you call it the peoples negligence is no sufficient cause to make it priuate and yet to profit the people yea though they be absent you may aswel abuse the Word it selfe so and say it is inough when it is in publike it the Priest handle it and heare it and beleeue it alone yet the people being absent and not dreaming of any such thing may be saued by it therefore the Priest may celebrate priuate Masse Christ admitted onlie his Apostles to Suppe therefore Priests alone must m DVR The people also receiue the vvhole Sacrament vnder one kind WHIT pag. 754. It is childish dotage to say so as though one part of a thing were the vvhole or as if Christ appointing both bread and wine ordained more then a whole Sacrament that Pope was wiser vvhich said of certaine heretikes that refrained from the Cup as you doâ— De concil dist 2. cap. Comperimus Let them either receiue the vvhole Sacrament or refuse all DVR Christs vvords Drinke yee all of this proue nâ—t that all Christians must doe so WHIT. pag. 755. They doe proue it as those vvords take eate doe proue that all must eate and you may as vvell keepe both the elements from the people as one contrarie to S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.23 DVR The Passeouer might be eaten vvithout vvine WHIT. pag. 756. It might because God had not commaunded vvine but Christ himselfe commaundeth it in his Supper 1. Cor. 11.45 DVR The common people are aâ—t bound to drinke of the Cap for S. Paul saith As oft as ye drinke it to signifie they were not commanded so to doe WHIT. So he saith of the bread also As of as yee eate 1. Cor. 11.26 so that by your argument neither is the bread commanded them receiue the Sacrament the people ought to bee contented only with one part The title which Pilate fastned vpon the Crosse was written in Hebrew Greeke Latine therfore n DVR No Catholike doth so reason we say that title had in it a mysterie and Augustine proueth by it that the vvord coessentâ—all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be vsed in the Creede WHIT. pag. 757. Papists often reason thus as all men knovve which read their writings though you bee ashamed of it Tell vs what mysterie you meane if it bee worth the labour as for Augustine hee speakes no word that makes here for your cause yet you blush not to quote him prayers must bee read in the Churches in no language but either Hebrew or Greeke or Latine Harding That which is holy must not be giuen to dogges o DVR VVe say not that all but that some of the people may not haue the Scriptures committed to them WHIT. pag. 758. Who doubteth but that vvisedome is to be vsed in teaching the people and that they vvhich shevv themselues dogges and hogges must be barred from the Scriptures but this is nothing to the present question vvhether this reason be good vvhich Papists sometimes vse and vvhich here you should haue spoken to and not thus vvander therfore the vulgar people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures This is my bodie therefore the p DVR Christ said it vvay his bodie WHIT. pag. 759. Christ by an vsuall phrase of Scripture called the thing signifying by the name of the thing signified because of the sacramentall ioint receiuing of both to vvit of the bread vvith the mouth and of his bodie by faith Againe if that vvhich vvas in Christs hands vvere his reall body vvhen he said so then vvas transubstantiation before vvhich you deny and then he had tvvo bodies but if it vvere bread then is there a metonymie in his vvords as vvee truly say bread is turned into Christs bodie Fall downe before his footestoole q DVR Ambrose and Augustine reasoned so from this Scripture WHIT p. 761. That is false they teach onely that vve must vvorship Christ in the mysteries and Sacrament not the myâ—teries and Sacrament themselues therefore the Sacrament must be worshipped God is no respecter of persons Pighius r DVR That vvas Pighius his error but the iudgement of Catholike Vniuersities is that foreseeing of merits is no cause of Predestination WHIT. pag. 762. Thus you fall from your champion Pighius in vvords
alwaies withstood the gates of hell Matth. 16. Judai Eusch 4. Hist. 5. Hieron in Epist ad Paul in Epist â—â—d Marcel passim in Epist but ours When after the expulsion of the Iewes vnder Vespatian and Titus his sonne Christians increased at Hierusalem O immortall God what comming of good people was there to the holie places that were there What wonderfull deuotion was there among all sorts of people to see that Citie of Hierusalem What zeale to see Christs Sepulcher what desire to see the manger wherein Christ lay what thursting after the sight of the crosse whereon Christ was nailed what longing to behold all sorts of monuments there in which the holie Church taketh as much delight as doth a spouse in the garments laid off by her husband Vpon this began that mortall hatred and implacable of the Iewes against vs for euen at this day they * But they complaine without cause for they haue no reason why they should be angrie with our ancestors complaine that our Ancestors were the cause of their Ancestors ouerthrow as for Simon Magus and the Lutherans Ethnici they receiued neuer ablow at their hands Among the heathen there were many tyrants who during their raigne for the space of 300. yeares by fits at diuers times inuented most bitter torments against Christians Against what manner of Christians I pray you Leo serm de D. Laurent Truly against the Fathers of our faith and their Children Marke well with your selues the speeches of this tirant that broiled S. LaureÌ„ce on a Gridyron It now well appeares Prud. in hym de S. Laur. that this is the order and fashion in your sacrifice This doctrine you all agree to that Bishops must offer vp their sacrifice in plate of gold and the people say that the sacred blood smoketh out of your cups of siluer and that ye haue tapers burning on golden candlesticks during all the time of your night sacrifices Also as common fame doth testifie your brethren haue a speciall care to offer vp thousands of pounds though they sell their lands to get the same the lawfull heire being thus disinherited and brought to beggery though his holie parents greatly complaineth for such shamefull sale of lands as should by right discend to him from his grandfathers This wealth lieth hid in some secret corners of your Churches and you thinke it a great godlie deed to make your sweet babes goe naked fetch out these treasures which thou hoordest vp by thy craftie perswasions and wicked witchcraft the which I say thou haddest in one darke hole or other the commonweale the Kings Eschecker and the common treasure haue need thereof That mony being imployed for souldiers wages the generall lieutenant may be fully fraughted with souldiers I vnderstand that this is an vsuall doctrine amongst you Restore to euery man his owne behold the Emperour acknowledgeth his owne physnomie stamped vpon his owne coine Giue to Caesar that which thou knowest to be Caesars Truly I demaund nothing but that which is iust Thy God except I be deceiued cometh no money neither brought he with him at his comming into the earth any golden gilderds but ministred his commandements by word of mouth being purslesse himselfe Performe faith fullie that his doctrine which you openly preach abroad restore your money willingly content your selfe to be rich in words * Campian demonstrates his Church by the wealth and riches of it A note of the Popish Church What manner of man seemeth this to be against whom doth he thus rage Whose Churches sacrifices lights ceremonies and ornaments hath he gone about to abolish What Churches golden goblets and chalices of siluer and costlie gifts and rich stuffe enuied he at This man vndoubtedly doth hold on Luthers part Gen. 10. For what other colour haue our mighty * The Pope of Rome is that Nimrod the mighty hunter of the Church Nimrods pretended to couer their theft withall when they robbed 1441 0536 V 3 Gods houses and made hanock of Christs inheritance On the coÌ„trary part what Church was it that Constantine the great the very terror of Christs enemies hath brought to quietnes euen that selfe-same Church ouer which the high 〈◊〉 Bishop Siluester was gouernour Dam. in Syl. Zonaras whom the said Emperour called out of the mount Soract where he lay secretly for feare of persecution that by the helpe of the said Siluester he might be * This is false for Siluester was dead many yeares before Constantine was baptised baptised with our Baptisme vnder what banner fought he that he became so great a coÌ„queror euen vnder the banner of the n Euseb lib. 2. de vita Con. c. 7 8.9 â—ozom lib. 1. cap. 9. Crosse who was his mother that he attained â—o so great honor euen that blessed woman Saim Helen what fathers took he part with with the Fathers for sooth of the Nicene Councell what manner of men were they namely they were S. Siuester S. Iulius S. Athanasius S. Nicholas to whose prayers did he commend himselfe to the prayers of o Athan. in vita S. Aut. S. Antony what roome exacted he in the Councell * This is false for it was the chiefest and of beaten gold the very lowest of all Oh how much more Prince-like was he when he sate in this seate then they that since that time ambitionsly haue made sale for a lâ—ttle that is far vnfit for a King It were too long to declare euery matter in particular but by these two Emperors wherof the one was our deadly enemie the other was our most faith full friend one may easilie coniecture of euery other circumstance which are like to these afore spoken of For as vnder the Tyrant our Catholike Christians had a trouble some encrease so vnder this Emperor through Gods great mercie they were brought to a most happie end Let vs looke a little into the Turkes affaires * It is manifest that the Turkes haue no lesse in creased by the helpe of the Pope then by their ovvne strength Mahomet and Sergius the Monke that fell from his religion by howling in the deepe pit of hell oppressed both with their owne sinnes and the sinnes of their posteritie This monstrous and outragious beast Vide Volat. Jouium Aemil. lib. 8 Blond lib. 9. de 1. I meane the Saracens and Turkes if they had not bin quailed and driuen backe heretofore by the orders of Knights in our holy warfare and by the Princes and people that take our part as for Luther * Hee hath good cause to be thankfull to the Pope of Rome to whom it is reported that Solyman the great Turke for this cause gaue great thankes by his letters yea and as for the Lutheran Princes to whom the fortunate successe of the Turkes is but a laughing matter as for them I say this â—aging furie and most mischieuous to mortallmen had before this time destroyed and
is my follie which was not the follie of Eusebius and Sozomen for Eusebius who was present at the same Synod writeth that Constantine in the first rancke sate downe in a golden chaire And Sozomen saith there was a throne prepared for him and that a great one and aboue all the other place in the Councell it skilleth not greatly for what if he chose the lowest seate amongst the Bishops Euseb lib. 3. de vita Constant Sozom. lib. 2. cap. 19. but you thinke he did it rather forced by necessary dutie then moued by voluntarie humilitie marke then what Eusebius writes When he was come to the chiefe place he stood vp in the middest of the assemblie and there when a little seate made of gold was brought for him he sate downe Heere you see that Constantine sate in the highest place a seate of gold which was the chiefest and aboue all the rest as Zâ—zomen relates But these your proofes are passing strange they strengthen the cause of your Pope excellently well Now you passe forward vnto the Turks Turkes wherein you do too manifestly bewray your ignorance in historie For the Turkish gouernement neuer lesse preuailed then since Luther began to publish the Gospell Before he did ouer-run and like a troublous sea breake into all Countries with a furious and vnresisted violence But since Luther like a good husbandman began to sow the seed of the Gospell this raging sea hath as it were retired or stood still and conteined it selfe within his owne bounds Vicuna was kept by the Lutheranes and assaulted by Solyman but he returned with losse and with shame and prooue if you can that euer the Christians became weake or the Turks stronger by their default The Letters which you pretend as written from Solyman to Luther might with better reason haue bin sent to the Pope for the Turks are beholding to none more then your Pope as they well know and vnlesse they will be vnthankfull they will euer acknowledge it For if as our Sauiour Christ saith a kingdome diuided against it selfe cannot stand then the breaking of the strength of the Empire and weakning the power of Christians and consequently strengthning the Turks all must be imputed to him which rent and diuided the Romane and Christian Empires and of one kingdome made two As long as the prouinces and dominions of the Empire were vnited we were strong ynough against the Turks but after Pope Leo the 3. diuided the Empire the Emperour of Constantinople which before had much ado to resist the Turke was now no longer able to sustaine the burthen wanting the greatest part of his Empire There is then no reason why the Turke should thanke Luther but the Pope rather as he hath good cause It were too long to rehearse all the intercourse which hath passed betwixt the Pope and the Turke let vs now heare the conclusion They are say you onely professed enemies to vs. Certainely they haue infested them of the Greeke church more then the Latine So that if they be the best Christians that are most persecuted by the Turks the Grecians must goe before you Whereas you adde something of Altars and Images know you that the Idolatry of your Church is so great that the Turks themselues are ashamed and therefore they breake and euill intreate your Images and Idols wheresoeuer they find them Now you come to Hereticks the lees bellowes Heretikes and fewell of hell fire As long as there wants no Papists this fire will want no fewell The first you meete with is Simon Magus Indeed your Church is something more indebted to this Simon then the other but what of him He denied freewill vnto man and bragged of faith alone Where finde you that tell vs Campian for this is not affirmed by Ireneus or Clemens in the places alleaged he thought that all things came to passe by destinie and an ineuitable necessitie whereby he vtterly abolished mans freewill x DVR If you be a Caluinist then this must needs be your doctrine when as Caluin had so taken avvay all freedome that he hath brought a necessitie greater then Stoickes fate WHIT. pag. 882. I am a Christian you a Iesuite Caluin as you wel know neuer tooke away the freedome of will vnlesse you reason thus the will of man is not free in good things before it be regenerate by the spirit of God therfore there is no freedome of the will at all which verily hath no strength of consequent in it We hold no such opinion Neither did he boast of sole faith as you say but this was his opinion that from the doctrine of Iustification by grace and faith he let loose the raines to all impietie dishonestie where do we defend any such things Nouatianus would himselfe be Bishop of Rome and opposed himselfe to Cornelius the lawfull Bishop hoping by force to get the Bishoprick What is this to vs But he was an enemie to the two Sacraments of penance and extreme vnction y DVR It was not for this but because he tooke away the Sacrament of Penance in vvhich Priests do pardon sinne WHIT. pag. 882. Whether Penance was a Sacrament or no was not the thing in question betwixt Nouatus and the Catholikes but whether there was any place for repentance left vnto those that did sinne that the Minister might assure theÌ„ of remission of sins if they repeÌ„ted we grant that this power is giueÌ„ to the Ministers of the Gospell therefore we are far from the error of Nouatus He denied pardon and repentance to them that fell in persecution Herein he was an enemie of repentance Our case in farre different which exclude no true penitent from hope of pardon Manos wholie reiected baptisme as vnprofiâ—able and not necessarie Do we affirme any such thing We z DVR You take from Baptisme all power to remit sinnes and confirre grace as the Manicâ—es doe And yee Caluinists deny that the deed done doth confirre grace to them vvho beleeue WHIT. pag. 883. We beleeue and teach that in Baptisme sins are forgiuen which the Manichies vsually deny Therefore we differ much from them And as for the inuention of the deed done we reiect it euen in those who are indued with faith for what neede haue wee of any such inuention that grace is conferred and giueâ— by the deed done if faith be not wanting denie indeed that baptisme confers grace to the vnbeleeuer by the worke wrought he denied it to be profitable at all are we like him Austen and Epiphanius accompt Aerius for an Heretick so did few of the auncient Fathers besides these And if to condemne praiers for the dead Hierou ad Euag. in 1. Tit. and make equall a Priest with a Bishop be hereticall what shall be Catholick Hierome was altogether of Aerius his mind about equalitie of Priests for he determines them to be equall with Bishops by Gods law This was not that Aerius Socrat. lib.
but indeed many of your Schooles defend him saying the kingdome of heauen is prepared for them vvhich haue merited it by their good works therefore hee chuseth no man to life eternall but with respect of merits S. Iames commaundeth that sicke persons should be anointed Å¿ DVR The sicke vvant health novv as vvell as then and therefore must novv haue the same helping remedie WHIT. pag. 763. Anointing was a signe of healing in those times of extraordinarie giftes in the Church your anointing healeth nothing that wanteth health and so is friuolous therefore we must now euer and anon anoint the sicke This is a great mysterie t DVR The Apostle speaketh that properly of Matrimonte WHIT. pag. 764. Nay he himselfe expoundes it of the mysticall vnion betweene Christ and the Church therefore Matrimonie is a Sacrament Elias and Iohn Baptist liued in the wildernesse u DVR These men left a famous example of Monkish life WHIT. pag. 765. The Monkes life is not proued by their examples for Elias was commaunded to goe into the desert during perill they doe that without both precept and perill John Baptist indeede liued in the desert but wherein men did dwell to whom also he preached and there were many cities and townes in that desert Josh 15.61 what is this to idle Monkish life therefore they inuented the manner of life and discipline of Monkes There are seuen deadly sinnes x DVR Name him that thus disputeth WHIT. pag. 766. It is Iohn Lâ—dâ—vvicke in a booke intituled The golden vvorke of true contrition leafe 128. Where are abunuen sorts of men in the Church c. therefore there are iust seuen Sacraments God made man after his image y DVR Pope Adrian proueth not the vse of images by this place but saith it vvas signified by it WHIT. pag. 767. Then you confesse he alleageth that Scripture to proue the vse of images was signified by it and who but a superstitious doctor would haue done so therefore images must be set vp in Churches The chiefest of these is charitie z DVR The chiefest gift must come from the chiefest vertue WHIT. pag. 768. S. Paul 1. Cor. 13. doth not in all things preferre charitie before faith but onely because it indureth in the life to come when wee shall not neede faith as Chrysostome expoundes it now faith onely apprehends Christ our righteousnesse and therein excelleth charitie Lastly you erre grossely in effect ascribing our iustâ—fication to the merit of vertue in vs vvhich onely is merited by Iesus Christ therefore we are iustified more by charitie than by faith I will goe Osea 5.15 saith the Lord to my place vntill they ponder in their heart and seeke my face which indeede he spake a DVR Do you thinke that God calleth men to repentace ironically WHIT. pag. 799. No but when men will not seâ—k God being called thereto by his bountie no maruaile though hee withdraw it from them and as it were laugh at their madnes of which ironies there be many examples in Scriptures ironically and after the manner of men therefore men may be conuerted vnto the Lord by their owne meere will and disposition The Lord commaundeth vs to doe many things b DVR Augustine denieth that God hath commanded impossible thinâ—s WHIT. pag. 770. Hee expoundeth his owne meaning that Adam before his fall could and that we in heauen shal be able to keepe all Gods commandements but he often saith that no man in this life can fulfill the Law of God DVR Men vse not to make lavves impossible to be kept WHIT. We must not measure Gods doing by mans Againe when these lawes were first giuen man could performe them and vvee must not looke that God should alter them to fit our corruption DVR God could not iustly punish lavvbreakers if they could not keepe it WHIT. pag. 771. Answere then Eusebius Euangelicall demonst lib. 1 who saith that Moses Lavv vvas impossible to be kept of any man And Thomas Aquinas vpon Gal. 3. sect 4. saying Moses commaunded many things vvhich no man could fulfill therefore those things may be performed of vs. Christ descended to the dead therefore he deliuered c DVR Tell me for what other cause Christ went into bel but to deliuer the Fathers from Limbus WHIT. pag. 772. Nay first proue you that he did go so to hel as you thinke for my part I beleeue it not but that his soule went presently to heauen Againe you begge the question saying he went to hell to deliuer the Fathers DVR I proue it by these Scriptures Zac. 9.11 Psal 68.18 Heb. 9.8 WHIT. â—acharie speaketh only of the Iewes deliuery from the captiuitie of Babylon Dauid speaketh of Christs ascending into heauen and triumph ouer his enemies and you childishly inferre hereupon therefore he descended to hell to deliuer the Patriarkes from Limbus but most ridiculously you abuse that place to the Hebrewes the true sense whereof is that we are not reconciled to God by the Iewish sacrifices but by Christ therefore you inferre that none of the Patriarkes vvent to heauen vntill Christ came out of hell and opened heauen by his bodilie ascension the Fathers out of Limbus The Church discerneth the Scriptures d DVR Catholikes say not so WHIT. pag. 773 But your false Church doth so for it interpreteth Scriptures as it listeth and constraineth all Christians to rest therein bee it neuer so false and contrarie to the Scriptures else it doth condemne him for an heretike therefore the authoritie of the Church is greater than the authoritie of the Scriptures Saint Paul commaundeth the Thessalonians 2. Thess 2.15 that they keepe the ordinances which they had learned therefore e DVR What error find you in this argument WHIT. pag. 774. I find in it a threefold false consequent first you cannot proue hence that the things which S. Paul spake by word were not the same in effect which hee wrote to theÌ„ secondly if he wrote not all to theÌ„ which he had taught theÌ„ it followeth not that hee taught something which is not written in the Scriptures thirdly admit many things were left vnwritten yet it followeth not that all things necessary to saluatioÌ„ be not written nor do the ancient Fathers say so all things are not written which are necessarie to saluation 2. Cor. 3 15. Hee himselfe shall bee safe yet as it were through fire f DVR Sundry Fathers expound this place of Purgatory fire WHIT. pag. 776. But the place it selfe sheweth that it cannot bee meant of any such fire for 1. S. Paul speaketh of the purging away that which is a fault but in your Purgaâ—orie faults are not consumed but you say punishments are sâ—ffred for fâ—uâ—â—s 2. S. Paul saith euery mans worke be it gold or wood shall be tried but you cast nothing but wood hay and stubble into your fained Purgatory 3. S. Paul saith euery mans worke shall be