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A56601
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An appendix to the third part of The friendly debate being a letter of the conformist to the non-conformist : together with a postscript / by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. Part 3, Appendix
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Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.
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1670
(1670)
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Wing P746; ESTC R13612
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87,282
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240
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profession which he supposes me to be not to meddle with these things and whether he be not bound in Conscience especially in case he live among a people distracted in opinion to declare himself expresly either for them or against them c. Others may resolve in this case as they see cause I have satisfied my self that I have done as became an honest man But I did not think to have said so much about this matter nor is it to any great purpose I see to labour to clear our selves of their vile suspitions say what we will many of them stop their ears or drown our words with their loud cryes against us We must have naughty intentions and they must be the very best of men the most loyally affected to his Sacred Majesty who would have thought it more then the very Bishops themselves as this Author would insinuate For they would not be offended as the Bishops you may think would if the Statute of King Edward the Sixth was revived whereby all Citations in the Courts Spiritual should issue out in the Kings Name and with his Seal And it would not displease them to have a Vicar-General in SPIRITV ALIBVS as he assures you p. 33. But he must give us leave to think as that Bishop now named speaks who hath demonstrated that Processes in the Bishops name no way intrench upon the Kings Authority r A Calumny long ago cast upon the Bishops in the humble Supplication for Toleration 1609. p. 10 17. Revived in the late times confuted by Bishop Sanderson that their meaning herein is rather to do the Bishops hurt then the King service and that their affections so far as by what is visible we are able to judge thereof are much what alike the same towards both This you may read in his Book concerning Episcopacy not being prejudicial to Regal power p. 3 4. And what he saith of the one I may say of the other motion which is of the same strain and then made to Queen Elizabeth when Martin Mar-prelates Book came out not to greaten her power but to depress the Bishops So the Book called the Ladened Ass tells us that there were Suitors then to her for a greater Authority if they could have got it then Cromwels General Vicarship over the Bishops and Clergy a Pag. 12 45. and that the very same men who câ—ntrived this were the favourers of the Admonition the frame of Discipline the Mar-all-Libels and other new Monsters which then were yearly bred and brought forth And truely there is some reason to think that such men as this would be no more displeased with a new Martin Mar-prelate then with a new Vicar-General For he is not ashamed to approve of such vile Books as Ladensium Autocatacrisis to which he sends us for information concerning the greatest Enemies of our Church and Religion those who bring in new and strange Doctrines i. e. plain Popery p. 80. A Book writ by that haughty and violent spirit which so often calls the excellent Bishop y Bishop Bramhal mentioned by this Apologist in the entrance of his Work by the scornful name of Dr. Bramble z Review of fair warning in the very Frontispiece of the Book and which puts Bishop Andrews and Bishop Hall among that Faction as he speaks whose avowed Popery was manifest from their Books And therefore the Author of it justly defended that Censure which was given of him and his Book long ago by a Reverend person now alive who saith the man had seen some Visions in Trophenius's Den Raptures and Embryo's of his own adled brain and out he came to vent them like Esops Ass jâ—tting in Purple He was high set in pursuit of fame and scorning to cope with a PIGMEE he challenges no less men then my Lords Grace of Canterbury and all the Learned Divines of England and much grieved he was that my Lord himself would not vouchsafe him the honour to confute him as if a Sky-towring-Eagle or Gyre Falcon should have stoopt to a Kite or Carrion a Dr. Creighton's Letter to Mr. R. Watson 1650 But perhaps the Apologist never seriously considered that Book as I am sure he hath not duly noted weighed mine For if he had he would have repeated my words more sincerely and not mis-represented them so often as he hath done at least not have put me in the number of those that are Enemies of our Church dissent from its Articles and bring in new and strange Doctrines So he would have it thought else why doth he oppose my words and the eleventh Article of our Religion the one against the other p. 85. The comfort of it is there is no clashing at all between them but onely in his own brains which understand not it seems that good Works may be necessary to our justification and yet no cause of it But thus he deals with me in other things what I said of Lawn-sleeves and the Black Cap and White first part p. 81 he translates to Surplesses and makes an idle discourse about them p. 47. He makes you believe I said that afternoon-Sermons were wholly superfluous p. 61. when I onely told you that they might be used or not as they should be found to be to Edification The same perverse representation he makes of what I said about experiences p. 70. Preaching of Obedience p. 77. Doing good out of fear of threatnings p. 84. Pious discourses also p. 96. which were not by me disgraced but their rash censures condemned If I did not begin to be tyred with following him in his rambles I could present you with a great many more Monsters of his own making just like that which a Cheat promised to show his credulous spectators they are the words of one whom he and I have often mentioned an Horse whose Head stood in the place of his Tail and when all came to all he himself had tyed the Horse to the Manger the wrong way Besides barely to show these misrepresentations would be a very dull business and indanger the tiring you quite and to make them appear ridiculous would much offend his seriousness For which reason I shall let these and a great many other things in his Book alone till he give me a further occasion But I intreat him as he loves himself to hold his hand till he hath learnt a little more Logick and knows better how to draw consequences At least let him forbear to draw any out of my Books till he hath diligently weighed every word and the occasion of it For his manner is to make very silly ones and then confute them as you may read in his Preface and p. 107 108. Mr. Hughes Mr. Vicars did thus and thus heretofore therefore the N.C. are all thus and thus now It this saith he good Logick and solid reasoning I say no it is childish and ridiculous but it is his own not mine who produced such mens sayings to other purposes
declared when time was f Letter to his Legate in the Council of Trent See p. 646. Engl. Edit 1629. that the opinion which makes them hold by that Title is false and erroneous But not to leave the least speck of his dirt sticking on us which he blushes not to throw in our faces once more p. 34. you may know that the very same Bishop newly mentioned wipes it all off himself by clearing and excusing the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas from sinning against the Divine Right though they had no Bishops whom he thought to be of Divine Right in the strictest sense I said no such thing as his words are g Bishop Andrews Letter to du Moulin Ib. but only this that your Churches wanted something that is of Divine Right Wanted not by your fault but by the iniquity of the times for that your France had not your Kings so propitious at the Reformation of your Church as our England had In like manner the late Primate of Ireland Bishop Bramhall excuses those in the Reformed Churches who as I told you either had a desire or but an esteem of Episcopacy though they could not enjoy it And as for a third sort who were so far from either of those that they condemned it as an Antichristian Innovation and a rag of Popery whereby they became guilty he thought of most gross Schism materially he saith thus much may be alledged to mitigate their fault That they do it ignorantly h Replication to the Bishop of Chalcedon p. 71 72. as they have been mis-taught and mis-informed and I hope that many of them are free from obstinacy and hold the truth implicitely in the preparation of their minds because ready to receive it when God shall reveal it to them Nay Dr. Heylin himself whom this man thinks so fierce makes an Apology for their Ministers not being Ordained by Bishops at the first Reformation there being he thinks a necessity for it as you may read in his History of Episcopacy p. 164. And lastly a famous person now alive this Apologist cites afterward against his own self Master Thorndike I mean who he acknowledges i page 10. hath a charity for the Churches beyond the Seas though wanting Bishops whom he doubts not to be of Divine Right But he might have had recourse to a better place of his works for this purpose than that which he hath produced For he handles this question at large in his Book of the Rights of the Church k p. 194 198. where he excuses their necessity and concludes at last out of the abundance of his Charity that some excuse is to be made for those who have created this necessity to themselves by their own false perswasion Let this man therefore do open penance for his sin in laying such foul things to the charge of the men of the high Prelacy as he in scorn calls them p. 35. And let him forbear if he can to say hereafter That there is just cause to fear that some among us have a greater Charity for the Church of Rome than the Presbyterians l page 34. And to intimate that the high Conformists are warping from the Doctrine of the Church of England and lean more to that of Trent m p 80 81. For these are only old Calumnies now revived I wish it be not to serve the Good Old Cause We were told before the War that the Bishops were leaned toward Popery nay were driving fast toward Popery And no sooner was it begun but our neighbours were born in hand that we had a company of half Papish Bishops n Dialogue between an Englishman a Neatherlander written in Low-Dutch and translated into English 1643. p. 7. nay that they were altogether Papists one and the same brood with the Jesuits o p. 8. 16. and intended to bring Popery into England all which they affirmed was as clear as the bright noon-day p page 10. For to this end saith this impudent Libel they had stript all the Assemblies of their faithfullest Preachers and used many other means to banish wholly all saving knowledge out of the Kingdom that so they might the better draw the people to Popery From which considerations the Author desires the Lords and Inhabitants of the Vnited Netherlands q In the Dedicatory Epistle not to assist the King for if he prevailed the Government would be altered Religion suppressed the Bishops restored and put in force their Popish Canons And all this I must tell you was writ by a Presbyterian a modest Gentleman no doubt otherwise called a shameless lyar as appears by this passage p. 37. where he saith Our whole Nation is by the coming in of the Scots before the War yet more confirmed that they were led by Gods Spirit What was the woful issue of those suggestions we all know though there was nothing of truth in them as appeared by the stout opposition against the common enemy which some of those very men made who besides their other sufferings had layen as deep under the suspicion of being Popishly affected as any other of their Brethren whosoever r See Bishop Sandersons preface to 1. Volume of Serm. Sect 17. And what they now intend that begin again to buzze the same tale in the peoples ears we are not so doltish as not to understand and when opportunity shall serve they will more openly declare Then you may hear the complaints renewed which he remembers out of Mr. Fuller his Church-History of Popery Arminianism Socinianism and what not You may hear an Accusation against a Minister as the same Historian tells us there was on his own knowledge Å¿ Book the 11. page 224. merely for using the Gloria Patri though in all things else he conformed to the Directory 6. In which case truly there might have been some colour to charge the Accusers as more zealous for their Directory than for our Saviours Deity But to impeach any of us as more concerned for the Divine Right of Bishops than for the Divine Nature of our Lord the great Bishop of our souls is a bold-fac'd calumny for which there is no pretence at all And yet he thinks he hath not said enough for he tells you further that these High Conformists or Hectors can with more patience hear a Dispute against the very being of a Deity than about the taking away of a Ceremony Which is the very highest strain of railing that the wit of a modest Presbyterian can invent But to what pitch the more impudent may reach who can tell They may say that these Conformists are perfect Atheists since they are already it seems such Fools as to bear more meekly with those who go about to Dethrone the object of all worship than with those who only pluck away a Ceremony of it Dull Asses how should their Ceremonies stand if the very sense of a Deity fall down If he can find me any such