discending to the second thence to the third and so on to the succeding ages of the Church whereby he will perceive how the true Religion has been handed downe from one age to another and how and when this or that errour sprang up as he â—hat sails down some great and clear pure river may easily perceive where little Rivuletts and puddles have run into it and have muddyed and troubled the Cleareâ— Stream Firm. I much approve of what you say concerning the rise and cause of errours in Religion the chiefe reason of them is ignorance in the records of Antiquity and holy Scriptures and want of orderly proceeding in our studies from age to age whereby we may easily perceive how and when the puddles corrupt rivuleâ—s of errour have troubled the purer stream of Christianity and you may without much labour perceive that if you had been well instructed in the being and Attributes of Almighty God in a firm beliefe of his most sacred word you had never fallen into those most dangerous errours of Popery Quakerism or oâ— any such pernicous sect Dub. I do confesse my error and especially that I was so great a stranger not onely to the writings of the fathers but to the holy Scripture it selfe which I did too much neglect and scorn but seeing by Gods blessing upon your endeavours I am fully satisfied of the vanity absurdity and falshood of Atheism infidelity and Popery if you please to give your self thâ—t trouble we will proceed in our discourse concerning Quakerism Anabaptism Independency and Presbytery I shall not trouble you with any other sect because they are all included in some one of these or at least are so vain and ridiculous that we should do them to much honour if we should gratifie them with a sober and serious confutation Firm. I shall most willingly embrace your proposall and if it please you we will proceed to Quakerism the errour which you embraced immediatly before you turned Papist and in truth 't is a faire introduction to Popery and by many grosse errours which the Quakers embrace 't is as evident as the light at noon day who were the fathers of those spurious brats Dub. This is a very truth the Quakers holding many things which are maintained by Papists we may easily know whose Children these poor deluded Souls are and the Corespondence betwixt them made my passage to Rome more ready and easy DIALOGVE IV Against QVAKERISM Firm. You have informed me in our last discourse that being sometime a quaker you had a ready way open to become a Papist I pray tell me why and how you turned a quaker Dub. You put me hard to it for I can give yoâ— no verâ— good reasons for that change and those that moved me are so ridiculous that I am almost ashamed to name them yet such as they are I shall give you the trouble of hearing them I am almost perswaded that the man that perverted me used some enchantments and Diabolicall arts so that I was rather bewitched then rationally perswaded to be of that party as I have heard some have been but because I am not certain of this I shall wave it and shew you my reasons 1. I observed that the cause why there were so many sects and schisms in the world was for want of a certain infallible rule to guide us in our judgments and practises as I was made believe and I was perswaded that the Quakers had such a rule to wit the light within them 2. I observed these men to be very demure in their carriage very austere in their lives sober and tempâ—â—â—tâ— of afflicted dejected countenances very punctuall and just in their dealings not abating one fartâ—ing of the price of any commodity they first demanded greâ—t contemners of the world no respecters of any mans person how great soever so meeke humble and lowly in their apparell and behavior that they cannot endure the wearing of gold-rings silver or silks in themselves or any others and if any man should strike them on the one cheek these poore innocent soules were so farr from revenge that they would turne the other so that I conceiued them to be so many Nathaniels so many true Israelites in whom there was no guile Firm. How could you be deceived by such painted sepulchers what could you see more in them then what was conspicuous in the Scribes and Phariâ—ees of old take iâ— for an infalible rule that whosoever hold or practise any thing which is contrary to the law of nature and good manners expresse Scripture the usages of all sober and civill people in the world are so farr from being true Christians that they are not worthy the name of men Dub. I am fully of your perswasion that these men hold and practise many things which are contrary to the law of nature good manners and holy Scripture but for my farther satisfaction let us discourse some of their tenents and practises Firm. For their tenents you may at your leisure peruse the Synopsis of Quakerisme wrote by Mr. Danson The heads whereof are breifly these taken out of their owne writings which are a mixture of Popery and Socinianisme as 1. They affirm that there are not three persons in the Trinity 2. That Christ did not make satisfaction for the sins of men 3. That justification is not by imputed righteousness but that our owne inhaerent righteousness and good works is the cause of our justification 4. That a state of perfection and freedome from sin is attainable in this life 5. That there is a light in every man sufficient to guide him to salvation 6. That the Scripture is not the word of God or a standing rule of faith and manners 7. That there is no resurrection of the dead 8. That there is no need or use of ordinances as Baptisme and the Lords Supper 9. That 't is unlawfull to take an oath before a Magistrate upon any account whatsoever Dub. I know these and many more to be the positions of quakers and that they are directly contrary to sacred Schripture Firm. These things are so clearly confuted by the expresse word of God and tradition of the Catholick Church that 't is superfluous to trouble you with any further discourse about them As for their practises they are extreamly opposite to all good manners and the Civilities of aâ—l Nations that are not grosly barbarous as well as â—o the holy Scripture and whereas you have observed their carriages to be very demure austere and that they are of a sad countenance 't is no more then what our blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since indeed to be sad and mourn in times of publick Humiliation Calamities and great Judgements is Christian but to be constanly so savours too much of the Pharisee and is contrary to holy Scripture which instructs us there is a time to Laugh as well as to Weepe there is nothing which more delights and cheers the
Imprimatur RAD. BATHVRST Vice-Can Oxon. FIRMIANUS and DVBITANTIVS OR Certain DIALOGUES Concerning Atheism Infidelity Popery and other Heresies and Schisme's that trouble the peace of the Church and are destructive of Primitive Piety VVritten in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians By THO. GOOD D.D. Master of Baliol Colledge in Oxon. Take heed Brethren least there be in any of you an evil heart of unbeleif in departing from the living God Heb. 3.12 OXFORD Printed by L. LICHFIELD Printer to the University for THO. HANCOX Book-seller in Hereford 1674. To the Reader COnsidering the many Learned and judicious Tracts that are extant against Atheism Infidelity Popery with other Heresies Sects Schisms destructive of the Antient Catholick Religion and of that Peace and Vnity Love and Charity which is the badge and mark of Christs sheep I thought it superfluous to add my poor Scrible after such fair Copy's but observing the length and learning of those elaborate Tractat's which many men have neither money to buy leasure to read nor judgment to understand I conceived that these few short Discourses not fitted nor indeed intended for the perusal of the learned might nevertheless be gratum opus agricolis not altogether unprofitable for men of ordinary Capacityes to which purpose I have used such means and methods That I might be the better understood by these men I have endeavoured that the matter of these discourses for the most part might be plain and familiar the phrase and expressions intelligible I have made use of two feigned names Firmianus and Dubitantius to personate the sound Believer and the doubting Sceptick Christian who are brought upon the Stage disputing by way of Dialogue which is most suiteable to men of short discourse and most apt to comply with their apprehension I hope the more learned Reader if any such shall give themselves the trouble to peruse this little Manuel will not Censure the plainness of it but rather commend the Charity of the Author toward the wâ—ll meaning Christian who amongst those many Treatises that have been written can meet with very few that are calculated for his Meridian and consequently is apt to be blown about with every wind of doctrine by the slight of men and cunning craftines whereby they lye in wait to deceive and who these gamesters are he that has but half an eye may see and how many a poor soul has in these times of confusion been blown about from one erroneous opinion to another until he has turned Seeker Scheptick and at last down right Atheist there is no man so great a stranger in our Hierusalem that can be ignorant Wherefore if these short and familiar discourses may have the happiness to prevent the falling of any unsetled wavering soul or to restore any that has fallen to a sound mind 't will be my great satisfaction and rejoying to be able to apply to my self that of St. James cap. 5.19 Brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him let him know that he that converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins Now the God of truth and peace grant that these poor and weak endeavours may work that good effect upon the erring seduced sinner and that the multitude of my sins may be covered with the long white robe of my blessed Saviours righteousness for his holy name sake Amen Thine in the truth that is iâ— Christ Jesus THO. GOOD DIALOGUE I. Against ATHEISME Firm. GOod morrow to my old Friend Dubitantius Dub. A good day to you Firmianus Firm. Methinks I read some discontent in your face what may be the cause of it Dub. There is a great cause I have been so long distracted betwixt diversity of Opinions in point of Religion that I am now doubting whether there be any Religion at all or any Supream invisible Deity to be worshipped Firm. This is the common result of vain Janglings that they usually end in Atheism and Infidelity But pray tell me is it possible that there should be such fierce disputes and bitter contentions about a very nothing Certainly such sharp disputes about the various manners of Gods worship do strongly argue that Religion is a thing of highest concern or that all the wisest men that ever were in the world are Fooles and madmen to oppose hate malign persecute one another even unto death for a groundless fancy a very nothing Dub. Your discourse is very Rational for I suppose wise men would never wrangle about a meer Romance yet I confess I have had strange irrational thoughts against the very Being of God and the truth of any Religion Firm. You justly term such thoughts irrational Did not I once tell you that when you had forsâ—ken your Mother the Church of England the most Apostolical Catholick in the whole world in short time you would become a Libertine an Atheist any thing or nothing Dub. Do you think that all Nonconformists and Separatists from your Church are Libertines and Atheists Firm. I am not so uncharitable but I must tell you that causeless separation is a very greiveous sin and punished many times with the seveâ—est judgments such as are Spiritual blindness Hardness of heart and a Reprobate mind Dub. I fear those judgments have overtaken me for since I became a Separatist from your Church I have been very cold at my Devotion made little conscience of publick or secret Praier of Obedience to those powers which God has ordained of Love Charity Honesty and Upright dealing towards my neighbours I have lived an Atheist in practise so long that I am now ready to be an Atheist in Opinion and to say with the foole in the 14. Psal. There is no God I have so long sâ—ept out of one opinion into another that at length I am become a very Sceptick in Religion doubting of all and fixing upon none Firm. Truly Sir you made good your name by your practise which renders you a right Dubitantius But pray tell me by what degrees and methods you have stept out of our Church into the borders of Atheism that I may with the more facility bring you back the same way by which you have unhappily gone out from us into the bosome of your dear Mother Dub. Your Demand is reasonable 'T is not unknown to you that I was once a true son of the Church of England you shall hereafter know for what reasons I left her Communion and became a Presbyterian and to be breif I stay'd not long in that opinion but presently I proceeded Independent then Anabaptist then Quaker then Papist then Antiscripturist then what you now find me almost an Atheist Firm. I hope you are not fixed in that wretched Opinion as resolvedly to deny him a being that gave you yours Dub. Sir I am not but have many doubts whether there be and as many thoughts that there is not
either 2. They are under a judiciall blindness God has given them reason and understanding eyes that they might see hearts that they might understand but they wilfully shut their eyes against that light and then by the just judgment of Almighty God this light is taken from them they are given up to blindness of mind and hardness of heart as were the antient heathens Rom 1. 3. Their lives are utterly contrary to the holy nature of God to his sacred word there is an antipathy an emnity betwixt their Debaucheries their filthiness their profaneness and his most holy laws Rom. 8.7 every line of it flyes in their faces threatening them with hel and damnation whereupon they cavil with they quarrell against it they wish there were neither God to punish nor scripture to threaten Destruction against them and so by insensible degrees they are brought to think and say in their heart there is no God as the foole did Psal. 14. so true is that of the poet quod nimis miseri volunt hoc facile crâ—dunt the thoughâ—â— and imaginations of wretched men are governed by their desires they hate the light because their deeds are evil though their understandings are convinced by unansweareable arguments and reasons of the truth of these great principles yet they will not believe them such is the perverseness of their will that it either blinds their mind or else draws them against self Conviction to believe a Lye and to hold the conclusion against the most evident proofes and premises Dub. I am perswaded that you have given very good reasons why so many are Atheists and infidels and that the cheifest of them are irreligious and prophane livers that practical Atheisme is the greatest cause of that which iâ— dogmaticall or Atheism in opinion 'T was the foole that said in his heart there waâ— no God first he was a foole i. e. a sinner and very wicked as he is discribed in that psalm and thence he proceeded Atheist a foole in practise and then a fool in judgment for t is most certain that a corrupt and wicked life is the true parent of ungodly and vile opinions froâ— which by Gods blessing upon your good endeavoures I am now delivered and am fully perswaded that God is and that he is a rewarder of all those that diligently seeke him that the holy scripture is undoubtedly the word of God and consequently that the Christian Religion is the onely true religion but observing that of those who profess this Religion there are severall parties and t is not unknown to you that heretofore I have adhaered to the Church of Rome I would willingly learn from you which party they of Rome or we of England be most Orthodox and Catholick Firm Your demand is rationall I shall most willingly Gratifie you in itâ— oâ—ely you must give me leave to propose these Two questions to you and let me receive your answâ—r unto them at our next meeting 1. What Inducements you had to turne to the Church of Rome 2. What Reasons you had to leave it Dub. You must give me leave also to recollect my selfe that I may be â—he better able to give in my answer to your Quaeries DIALOGVE III Against POPERY Firm. I Hope you have well considered of the questions which I lately proposed unto you Dub. To the first I returne this answer My reasons that induced me to adhere to the Church of Rome were these 1. The Antiquity of that Church which has continued ever since the Apostles time when by the testimony of St. Paul her faith was spoken of throughout the world Rom. 1.8 2. The universality of it no Church has spread it self so farr and nere upon the face of the earth as that of Rome 3. Her consent in Doctrine with the primitive Church 4. The unity of it under one infallible head which cannot err in poynt of faith or manners 5 The sanctity of it's Doctrine that 't is free from errour in matters of â—aith free from all immorality and improbity in point of manners 6. The sanctity of life in the authors and first-fathers of the Roman Religion these were the chief motives that caused me to adhere to the Church of Rome Firm. Indeed these are six of those 15 notes which Bellaâ—mine Lib. 4. de not Eccle. and others of his perswasion appropriate to that Church but had you not some other inducements As first a vitious life and the cheap and easy pardon of your Sins upon confession of them to a priest his absolution and injunction of a pitifull pennance 2dly were you not under some discontent for your present low Condition or 3dly were you not ambitious of preferment deeming popery to be a ready way to it or 4thly were you not tickled with the Cunning extolling of your excellent parts by some subtile Jesuite lamenting your sad Condition that a person oâ— so rare endowments should be so miserably mistaken in the great concern of your Soule perswading you that out of the Church there is no hope of salvation and that you being no member of the Church of Rome were past all peradventure out of the Church and unlesse you returned to that Church there could be no hope of your salvation or lastly before you set up for the Church of Rome were you serious and conscientiouâ— in any Religion for 't is very easy for one that is of no Religion that makes no consciencâ— of his waies being allured with the joyeâ— of heaven and affrighted with the terrours of Hell to pitch upon any Religion that confidently promises those and as confidently a freedome from these and we know that Priests and Jesuites want neither art nor impudence to perswaâ—e silly wretches that hopes of Heaven and deliverance from Hell are only to be found in their Church Dub. Truely Sir I am verily perswaded that many who have left your Church and gone over to that of Rome have stumbled at such straws but you have known me long to be a man of no vitious life no male Content not ambitious of honour or preferment not apt to be paffed up with a proud conceit of mine own parts not cold or carelesse in point of Religion but the chiefe reasons that moved me to goe over to the Church of Rome were those before named which made me believe that Church to be the only true Catholick Church out of which there could be no hope of salvation to these I beg your answer Firm. And you shall have it 1. The doctrine of the present Church of Rome which alone could denominate her ancient Catholick and Apostolicall is in severall weighty points quite contrary to holy scripture neither hath it the generall consent of the fathers and Doctors of the Catholick Church the prâ—sent Church of Rome is no more like to what it once was in the purest primitive times than an old decrepit man full of diseases Gout Stone Palsy Dropsy Scurvey Blindnesse Deafnesse Wrinkles and a multitude of
swore by a good Man by which 't is evident how the grosse superstition of the Church of Rome hath crooked silly Souls and that all such images are teachers of Lies very vanities as the Scripture shews and reason demonstrates For to say nothing of the Blasphemous images of God the Father and the holy Trinity doth not the image of any Saint whom these pseudo-Catholicks worship lie to their imaginations representing that which is not for nothing but the Soules and Spirits of those Saints do now remain so that whilest they picture and worship them in bodily shapes which pictures represent what is not they worship they know not what praying onely to the Soules of Saints yet phansying them in bodily shapes as when they lived here on earth how doth it concern all Serious Christians to beware of the Religious worship of any creature of Gods or mans makeing of Angell Saint or Image which is so expressly forbidden in the word of God And surely if we might worship the picture of a man which is mans Creature 't were much more rational to worship a true man yea the Son Moon and Starrs and all thâ— host of heaven they being all of them the Creatures of Almighty God Firm. You rightly conclude were not a judiciall blindness upon the eyes of our adversaries they could not be Guilty of so dangerous a suspition Dub. I shall trouble you but with one reason more for my forsakeing the Church of Rome which was breifely their praiers in an unknown tongue a practise manifestly contrary to plain Scripture and the antient Doctors of the Church a most unreasonable service opposite to that which we are to perform to Almightâ— God 'T is so bafled by St. Paul that all the learned â—en of the Roman party have nothing of sence or reason to answer and as for antiquity 't was not so much as thought upon in the first ages in the Church the Liturgies then every where were in the known and vulgar tongue otherwise how should the unlearned say Amen The practise of the Church of Rome is in this as in divers other of their fopperyes a very mistery of iniquity I could heartily wish that for the undeceiveing of ignorant Papists their Missales Pontifical's Breviaryes Lady Psaltres c. were translated into the English and other vulgar tongues that such poore deluded soules might see to what absurd prayers they say Amen to what childish ridiculous Ceremonies they â—ubmit I might here add the vain Reptitions of so many Ave-Maria's Pater-noster's upon their beads their saying of them at certain houres as a Pensum or taske or a Pennance to make a Compensation for their sins rather then as a willing serious duty from the heart and soule which is not Religious praying but a Childish saying of prayers a vain heathenish babling after the manner of an old wises charm resting in the work done as if the bare saying of prayers without any intention of the mind were the only end of praying or the effectuall â—ervenâ— prayer of a Righteous man Iam. 5.16 I might also add their cheating Purgatory their purchasing of pardons and indulgences for sins past and for many hundred yeares to come by sums of money sett downe in the Tax booke of their Chancery their Pilgrimages and bodily Severityes to expiate for the sins of their soules their allowing of Brothell houses to Gratiâ—ye the unmarried Clergy and others in their unclean Lusts for which the Pope receives a luâ—ty Pension But to deale truely with you no one thing wrought a greater dislike of Popery in me then their barbarous bloody Cruelâ—y towards those that they please to call Haereticks their savage inquisition their Parisian Irish and other massacres their marian Butcherings their intended matchless powder treason their poysoning and stabing of kings their Justifieing of Rebellion and all manner of wickedness by their right intention and Doctrine of probability as is to be seen in the first and second part of the mistery of Jesuitisme in the Jesuites Morralls can such Villany such Cruelty and Christianity stand together did Christ and his Apostles propagate the Gospel with such Carnall weapons how severely does our Saviour rebuke his angry disciples when they would have called for fire from heaven to destroy the uncivill Schismatical Samaritans yâ—e know not what spirit yee are of for the son of man is not come to dâ—stroy mens lives but to save them Luk. 9.55 O that Christs pretending Vicar had the spirit of the meeke and holy Jesus These Sir were the reasons which moved me to forsake the Communion of the Church of Rome for upon this account I could not believe her to be the Catholick Church or any sound part of it but a very Schismatical Haeretical one that had departed exceeding much from Primitive Christianity from the faith that was once delivered to the Sainâ—s Firm. You have given very sufficient reasons for your departure from that unsound Church which may satisfie any serious considering Christian and you have saved me the trouble of any further addition to them I am now fully perswaded that you are neither Atheist Infidel or Papist pray you let me know what is your present perswasion and what Church you most â—pprove Dub. Truely Sir there are so many sects amongst the Protestants that I am in no small doubt with which of them to hold Commuion but my inclination leads me chiefly to returne to my old Mother the Church of England from which most unhappily as I am now convinced I heretofore separated however for the removâ—l of some scruples which yet remain with me â— earnestly desire you to give your selfe the trouble of a short discourse concerning the severall sects now in England Firm. I shall most â—readily gratifie you In this your very reasonable request nothing doubting but that I shall by Gods Gratious assiâ—tance remove all your scruples and fix you a true son of that Church which is the most Catholick Apostolical Church now exstant in all the world which those that do acknowledge the holy Scriptâ—re to be the infallible word of God the perfect Rule of all the substantialls of Christianity both for faith and manners and have some competent knowledge in the records of antiquity the want of which is one great cause of hâ—resy and schism as to be able to trace Christian Religion through the severall ages of the Church from the Apostles down to these presenâ— times I say those that do acknowledge these things cannot doubt of Dub. You much confirm me in what I have often heard from grave and learned men that one great cause of errours in Religion is ignorance in the writings of the ancient Doctors of the Church Councels and Ecclesiasticall histories this is not every mans work that have neither books to read nor brains to understand them and that tâ—e surest way to be an Orthodox Christian is by studying descendendo beginning with the records of the first century then
their lives and conversations very scandalous the greatest Nonconformists of all others not true to our Church and her injunctions in the most weighty matters placing all their Conformity in outward Ceremonies and neglecting what is most necessary for their own salvation and of those poor Souls which are committed to their charge which are in great danger to perish through the ignorance negligence and evil example of such blind guids Dub. But is not the poverty of many of them and the poor pittances allotted for their subsistence as great a cause of their contempt as any Firm. 'T is very true and 't were a work worthy of the Defendor of the Faith and a Religious Parliament to redress this very great grievance by uniting Little Churches by finding out some effectual means for restoring of Impropriate Tithes and Glebs to their respective Ministers which Impropriations are the very dregs of Popery and a grand Sacriledge in any one that shall detain them from the Church Dub. I do a little wonder why you should câ—ll Impropriations Popish seeing many of those who took up arms against King Charles the First diâ— it upon thâ— account of opposing Popery and hindering the groâ—th of iâ— in this â—â—nd and yet some of them are no â—mall Iâ—pâ—opâ—iaâ—ors Firm. Certainly there was never a more manifest peicâ— of hypocrisy in the world for men to be so seemingly zealous against the superstitions of Rome and yet be so deeply in love with her Sacriledge Surâ—ly there is some marvellous sweetness in Tiths and Church lands that prelatical Presbyteâ—ians all parties can swallow down such morsels without any scruple but let them take heed they prove not like that little Book Rev. 10.9 sweet to the palate but bitter in the belly Dub. Indeed I have heard that the Popes of Rome were the first and cheifest Authors of Impropriations and that they did alienate Tiâ—hs and Glebes from their respected Parish Churches for the maintenance of Abbies Priories Nunneries c. Firm. 'T is veâ—y certain that these alienations were made by the Authority of the Bishop of Rome for those uses and at the demolishing of those places those Impropriate Tiths and Church lands were either given or sold to Courtiers and other of the Nobility and Gentry which has proved the ruine of many Antient and flourishing Families and a very great hinderance to the growth of Religion for want of an able Ministry in many poor Parishes where according to the old saying Scandalous livings have made a scandalous Clergy and nothing would be a more effectual redress of this grievance then as was said before the Uniting of litle Parishes the restoring of Impropriate Tiths and Glebes to the Church together with a diligent inspection of the Bishops into the lives and learning of all those whom they shall either Ordain or Institute Dub. I am fully perswaded that the paying of Tiths is no oppression or injury to any man but the Independents and other Sectaries imagine that Tiths are a Levitical maintenance and therefore to be abrogated under the Gospel that Ministers now are to be maintain'd by a voluntary Contribution or at best to have a set stipend Firm. That Tiths received not their beginning from the Levitical Law is evident to any unbyased judgment from the example of Abrahams paying them to Melchisedeck of Iacobs vowing to give the Tenth of all that the Lord should bless him with from the Apostles large discourse about Abraham and Melchisedeck Heb. 7. By all which 't is evident that Tiths had not their Original from the Levitical â—aw and were not at first affixt to the Arâ—nical but to the Melchisedechian Priesthood As to that of Stipend and Voluntary Contribution 't is a meer plot of the Devil and Popish Emissaries to render Ministers contemptible by â—aking them Stipendiaries or Eleemosynaries directly contrary to what St. Paul has laid down The Elders that rule well are worthy of double honor which sufficiently evinceth that they ought to have an honorable maintainance and not to depend upon the cold and frozen Charity of the people I am sure St. Paul found his Corinthians very backward to supply the Ministers necessity in better times then these we live in like so many Stipendaries or Alms-men by which they will be forceâ— to Preach placentia or starve and suit their Doctrine to the humor of every Mechanick What a strange piece of non-sense is it that amongst our Congregational men the Minister should be the only poor Dependent 'T is most certain and evident to all that can make use of their reason that Gods way for the Ministers maintenance is the best which both before and under the Law given by Moses was by Tiths at least by God's approving of Abâ—aham's paying them to Melchisedeck ' â—was strongly insinuated that the great Lord of Heaven and Earth would in after times order and appoint that Tiths should be the maintenance for the Priest and Levite which has continued for many hundreds of years under the Gospel and there are many fair proofs from holy Scripture that they are due by Divine Right they are established by Civil and Ecclesiastical Laws are the most convenient and rational way for the Ministers support who by this meanes when the earth brings forth plenâ—ifully shares with the people in that blessing when less fruitfully as in times of scarcity suffers with them in this Calamity and thus partaking with them in blessings and affliâ—â—ions will be the fitter to Stir them up thankfulneâ—sâ— for the one and to press upon them the great duties of Patience and Humiliation under the other Dub. I did not doubt of the lawfulness and reasonableness of Tiths before we entred upon this discourse but now there is not the least scruple in me concerning them Firm. Therefore let us now proceed to another gross error maintaind by the Independents and other Sectaries about the electing of gifted Brethren into the office of Ministers Dub. That any gifted Brother any one that perswades himself that he has the Spirit and through a strong imagination conceives himself fit to Speak in the Congregation may without any farther tryal or lawfull call take upon him the office of Publick Preaching and Ministring in the Congregation which is the most sacred and weighty of of all other This is nothing less then a presumptuous usruping of the Priests office This I know to be the Opinion and practise of Independents and other Sectareis let me have your judgment of it Firm. That you shall most willingly And herein my judgment is that this is one of the most wild and Fanatick opinions that ever entred into the minds of men that it opens a wide gap to all Schisms and Heresies a certain cause of all manner of disorder and confusions in the Church upon this account Priests and Jesuits and all manner of Sectaries have had so fair an oppâ—rtunity to vent their poysonous Tenents in theâ—â— Independent Congregations Dub. I am fully