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A28893 An answer to Doctor Good (so called) his Dialogue against those call'd Quakers wherein he hath forged the Quaker and confuted himself, which dialogue of Tho. Good's is in his book intituled Firmianus and Dubitantius, or certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisms, which trouble the peace of the Church &c. / by Edward Bourn. Bourne, Edward, d. 1708. 1675 (1675) Wing B3845; ESTC R27869 17,048 26

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AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good So called His DIALOGVE against those call'd QUAKERS Wherein he hath Forged the QUAKER AND Confuted HIMSELF Which Dialogue of Tho. Good 's is in his Book Intituled Firmianus and Dubitantius or certain Dialogues concerning Atheism Infidelity Popery and other Heresies and Schisms which trouble the Peace of the Church c. By Edward Bourn The Bows of the Mighty Men are broken and they that stumbled are girt with Strength 1 Sam. 2. 4. Printed in the Year 1675. AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good So called c. Tho. Good FRiend Thou hast dialogued against the Quakers to render them odious to the VVorld but our Innocency who are called Quakers will clear us of the Reproach thou castest upon us who wouldst insinuate that to become a Quaker is the ready VVay to become a Papist For first sayst thou in the Beginning of thy Dialogue against the Quakers with Firmianus say'st thou You have informed me in our last Discourse that being sometime a Quaker you had a ready Way open to become a Papist Answ What Ground or Reason gives Firmianus to say so We find no Reason Firmianus gives for so saying a poor and silly Business may we say it is to say To be a Quaker is a ready Way to become a Papist and to shew no better Reason for thy so saying then thou hast done in thy Dialogue surely the Papists and thee are very wide in your Opinions herein surely we believe if it should come to the Tryal between thee and us it will be found that thou art more one with the Papists in thy Practice then the Quakers and therefore it will appear that the Way thou art in is a more ready Way to become a Papist then to be in the Way those called Quakers are in Further in thy Dubitantius where thou answerest thy Firmianus thou hast many scornful and disdainful Expressions not becoming a grave Man or a Man of Gravity which some have taken thee to be and so shewest thy self to be sitting in the Seat of the Scorner But blessed is the Man that walketh not in the Counsel of the Vngodly nor standeth in the Way of Sinners nor sitteth in the Seat of the Scornful c. See Psal 1. 1. c. And if thou wouldst be blessed thou must come forth out of the Seat of the Scorner and fear the Lord God and not be as such who open their Mouthes in Blasphemy against Heaven and them that dwell therein I judge I need not mention thy scornful Expressions nor say more in Answer to them in this Place because I know that People who fear God and are acquainted with our Principles and know our Conversations will judge that thou hast Dialogued thus against us without a just Cause for which I say the Lord rebuke thee Further sayes Firmianus How could you be deceived by such painted Sepulchres What could you see more in them then what was conspicuous in the Scribes and Pharisees of old Take it for and Infallible Rule that whosoever hold or practise any Thing which is contrary to the Law of Nature good Manners express Scriptures the Vsages of all sober and civil People in the World are so far from being True Christians that they are not worthy the Name of Men. Answ Here is a high Charge against us which if Firmianus or Tho. Good could prove according to what he hath charged upon us then should we be much to blame But what if his Charge in every Particular be false herein surely then it will follow that Tho. Good doth much deserve to be blamed for using his Pen thus against the Innocent and indeed I must tell Tho. Good that he hath falsly accused us herein for comparing us with such whom Christ compared unto painted Sepulchres he cannot make good his Charge against us therein but ought to take it home to himself he being more like these and more one with them then we whom Christ Jesus the Light of the World cryed Wo against for whereas he chargeth us for holding and practising Things contrary to the Law of Nature good Manners express Scripture the Usages of all sober and civil People in the World I say these are false Accusations and he himself by the Scriptures may be prov'd guilty of all those Accusations he falsly chargeth upon us and therefore let T. G. in Time to come have a Care and be wiser then to go about such a bad Work as this is wherein he hath grosly slandered and falsly accused the Innocent and be humbled before the Lord and repent of the Evil he hath committed herein and for the Satisfaction of such as are sober-minded let them read Mat. 23. and see who it is that is contrary to Christ Jesus and Breakers of the Law of God our Accuser or us and who is contrary to the Scriptures and read John 5. 41 42 43 44. c. And let the Witness of God in People unto which we do commend our selves judge between our Accuser and us for that will judge righteously and not according to that which is right in Appearance but is indeed contrary to what it doth appear to be And whereas thou speakest of perusing Priest Danson's Book Danson's Book is answered and all his Lyes thrown back upon his Head as thou may'st see in the Answer and thy Dialogue is rather a Forgery which thou and it are stuft with Lyes which come from the Father of them and not from God Thou say'st That they affirm that there are not three Persons in the Trinity Answ We desire thee to shew us Chapter and Verse for these Words and let us see whether thou walkest according to Scripture in these Words and in these Terms and see whether thou hast not presumed above what was written There are three that bear Record in Heaven the Father and the Word and the Holy Ghost these three are one and this we own in Scripture-Language according to John ' s Doctrine c. Thou say'st that we say That Christ did not make Satisfaction for the Sins of Men. Answ This is another lying Forgery for by one Offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified and we are not redeemed with corruptible Things but with the Blood of Jesus Christ as of a Lamb without Spot and we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous and he is the Reconciliation for our Sins and not for our Sins only but for the Sins of the whole World And thou say'st that we say That Justification is not by Imputed Righteousness and good Works are the Cause of our Justification Answ Here are more Lyes again and thou abusest Peoples Minds and the Press with them for Christ Jesus is our Righteousness and Sanctification and Redemption God hath made him so and we are justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus and therefore By the Works of the Law there is no Flesh justified Rom. 3. 23. We are
be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven And whereas thou say'st in thy Dubitantius I know these and many more to be the Positions of the Quakers and that they are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures Answ Whereas thou say'st Thou knowest these P●sitions and many more of ours are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures I say thou hast belyed us herein for the Scriptures make for us in these Positions which we own to be ours as I have shewed thee before and wherein thou hast said we hold that we do not hold thy Lyes are thrown back upon thy self and I doubt not but God will rebuke thy lying Tongue for thy slandering of us and turn the Mischief thou would'st bring upon us thereby upon thy own Pate And whereas thou say'st in thy Firmianus These Things are so clearly confuted by the Word of God by which I suppose thou meanest the Scriptures and Tradition of the Catholick Church c. Answ Thou hast said so but thou hast not brought one Scripture to confute us in those Positions we own to be ours and so hast accused us without a Proof which will not serve thy Turn for the carrying on of thy envious Work against us with People of Understanding but the rather thy Folly and Ignorance and Madness is the more made manifest to such as are honestly minded and are willing to try and to prove all Things and to hold fast that which is good And therefore cease from thy Work in this and in Things of this Nature for by thy Strength thou must not nor shalt not be able to prevail against us because the Truth is for us which is stronger and of more Might then any Thing beside it and takes our Parts against thee herein And whereas thou say'st Our Practices are extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations which are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures and whereas you have observed their Carriages to be very demure austere and that they are of a sad Countenance 't is no more then our Blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since c. Answ Wherein are our Practices so extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations that are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures Friend let us know if thou art able to do it wherein our Practices are contrary to the blessed Truth and if our Practices are not contrary to the Truth but agreeable therewith as surely I may safely say they are then wherein can they be said to be opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations Friend I can say and the Witness of God in my Conscience justifies me herein thou art one of those that calls Good Evil and Evil Good and so art not led by that good Spirit that the Holy Apostle and Servant of Christ was led by who said As Obedient Children not fashioning your selves according to the former Lusts in your Ignorance 1 Pet. 1. 14. So thou who ar● ignorant of the Light of Christ and of the right Way of the Lord may'st call that good Manners and Civility which is according to the Fashions ●f this World which pass away but that which the good Spirit of God doth lead into is contrary to that which thou may'st account good Manners and Civility But thou and such as thee art are nearer in Nature to the grosly barbarous then we are as this thy Work manifesteth for I am of the Mind thou art not of so meek a Spirit as to bear with any Man or Woman that cannot put off their Hats and bow to thee for Conscience sake though what they do herein doth accord and agree with the Scriptures and so we are not contrary to the Scriptures but according to them for Mordecai who was a good Man could not bow to Haman as thou may'st see Ester 3. 1 2. For which Cause Haman was full of Wrath as see Ester 3. 3 5. So thou who art angry with any that cannot for Conscience sake put off their Hats and bow to thee I speak not of such as thus do in Contempt to any Man's Person but for Conscience-sake towards God art like Haman herein and not like Mordecai whom God was with c. Further say'st thou of us That we are very demure austere and of a sad Countenance whereas a sad sour Face a hanging down Look too much resemble Cain's Mark and is a very probable Sign of a disquieted discontented guilty troubled if not a malitious Mind Answ Thou judgest of us according to thy own Thoughts But Friend tho● should'st not judge of us according to the outward Appearance in thy prejudiced Mind but judge Righteously of us and if thou wouldst so judge then thou must judge nothing before the Time 'T is probable that thou may'st judge us to be of a malitious Mind because we cannot appear as one with People in their Folly in being jolly and merry with them out of the Fear of the Lord which is because we know such Things are contrary to Godliness and that whereby his good Spirit is grieved and by which he is provoaked to Anger daily the Consideration of those Things makes us sad many Times and we cannot avoid it well many Times but must by our Words and Carriages shew our Disl●ke thereof because we well know that People by such Things do provoak the Holy God against their own Souls who hath long born with their Evil Manners herein and striven with them by his good Spirit to reclaim them therefrom but his long Suffering will soon come to an End with such and his good Spirit will cease to strive with them therefore let such repent and amend their VVaves and their Doings before it be too late but thou shewest thy self to be one with them which thought it strange of the Saints formerly because they could not run with them into the same Excess of Riot which they run into as see 1 Pet. 4. 3 4. And though thou say'st of us that in this or in such Things before-mentioned of us it too much resembles Cain's Mark I say Cain's Mark may easier be seen in thee who hast wrote so malitiously against us as thou hast let the VVitness of God in thy Conscience testifie whether thou hast not wrote thus against us out of Malice and whether thou hast not done it out of the Enmity in thee unto that which is good Again sayes Firmianus This Practice of theirs is against the very Light of Nature as well as plain Scripture a meer levelling Device of their Seducers the Popish Priests and Jesuits to make a Confusion amongst us to destroy all Government to take away all Honour and Respect which is due to our Superiours for what Honour or Reverence has that Man in his Heart towards them who will express none in his Words or Gestures according to the ●●udable Custom of the Country where he dwells Answ