Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n
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A91891
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The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against master John Yates his monopolie / by Iohn Robinson.
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Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing R1696; Thomason E1093_1; ESTC R208638
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39,795
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82
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smother one truth under another For albeit the women of Corinâ—th were become so mannish as that they would prophesiâ— uncovered and withovt their veile the ensigne oâ— their subiection yet doth not the Apostle meddle at all with that malady in this place but in the 11. cha. of the Epistle as himselfe noteth Here and in Tim. he simply forbids the thing there the manner of doing it Likewise for their being as forward to speake as their husbands and in their preâ—ence it may be true in part and in some But what then Doth the Apostle in these places onely forbid their speaking uncouered and permit them to teach so it be veiled or forbids he onely their being as forward as their husbands but gives them leaue to speake in the Church so it be with good manners after their husboÌ„ds which his answer insinuates Or is it not evideÌ„t to all that will not shut their eyes that he simply that severely inhibits them all speaking whatsoever in this exercise Are not the words plain enough Let the women keep silence in the Church for it is not permitted to them to speake but to be under obedience as the Law sayth And againe It is a shame for them to speak in the Church And in 1. Tim Let the women learne in silence with all subiection And I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurpe authority ouer the man but to be in subjection For Adam was first formed c. Do not and every one of the Reasons binde women to all â—eace and deepe silence in the Church yea to such â—d so absolute as that they may not so much as aske question for learning any thing themselues ver. 35. â—uch lesse teach others any thing I therefore conâ—ude this as a most certain and undeniable truth â—â—at the Apostle speakes here of such a gift and exâ—rcise as women are simply forbidden to use in the â—hurch and therefore not of an extraordinary gift â—r exercise which they might use lawfully and did â—oth before and a long time after the writing of this â—pistle His last answer now comes in consideration which â—s that the consiquence is ill women are forbidden and â—herefore men are permitted to prophesie in the Church by â—n ordinary gift If the consiquence seem not good why doth he so strugle as before otherwise to make an escape froÌ„â—he Argument let us coÌ„sider of the force of it which appeareth to me irresistable in these 3. things First the Apostle in and for this worke opposeth the men to the women sex to sex and so in prohibiting women he permits men When the H. Ghost opposing faith and works in the cause of iustification denies that we are iustified by works is not then the consequence good that therefore we are iustified by faith where he opposeth beleevers and vnbeleevers in the â—â—se of Saluation and teacheth that beleevers shall be saued doth he not teach consequently that vnbeleevers shall perish if consequences be not goodâ—â— must confesse my selfe farre to seeke both in Logiâ—â— and Divinity Secondly the reasons of the prohibition of womâ—â— proue the consiquence which are all such as prefeâ—â— the men before the women and subiect the women to the men in the Church and in this very work of prophesie of which he treateth But now if in prohibiting women he gaue not liberty unto men where were the prerogatiue of men aboue women which is the onely ground upon which he buildeth his prohibition Thirdly where verse 34. 35. It is not permitted for women to speak but if they will learn any thing to ask then husbands at home if their husbands might not speake neither nor any more then they what reason can be rendred of the Apostle so speaking Lastly M. Yates in denying this consequence sheweth that so he might deny something he tooke no great heed what it were The Apostle in this whole Chap takes order for some to prophesie and debarring women therefrom either admits men to the use of that liberty or els we must haue some third kinde of persons thought of which are neither male nor female My fourth Argument is from verse 29 and 32. Lâ—â— the prophets speake â—wo or three and let the rest iudgâ— â—nd the spirit of the prophets are subiect to the prophets â—hence I affirm that the Apostle speaks not of exâ—raordinary prophets or prophesying since they in â—heir Doctrine could not erre and so were not subâ—ect to any such iudgment or censure of others He â—nswereth roundly though briefly in this place that â—hese prophets were not infallibly assisted and more largâ—y in another place that such prophets as haue an inâ—allible assistance are noâ— subiect to this Rule but others â—hat had but as the Apostle sayd Rom. 12. 6. meaner â—ifts were to be examined according to the pâ—oportion of â—aith so that extraordinary prophets might mix some of â—heir own with the extraordinary gifts of Gods spirit â—hich was to be censured by such as had a greater meaâ—ure for none are to thinke that all that haâ— thâ—se extraordinary gifts were free from errour in their veâ—y doctrine We see the strange gift of tongues was abused and so â—ight the rest be That one extraordinary Prophet had a greater meaâ—ure and proportion of gifts then another I acknowâ—edge but that any one of them could erre in doctrin or was not infallibly assisted therein by the spirit â— deny as a most pernicious errour weaking the foundation of faith and truth of the word of God neither hath Master Yates so much as enterprised an answer unto the Scriptures brought by me to proue the contrary which were Ephesians 2. 20. where the Ephesians as the houshold or Church of God are said to be built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets c. chap. 3. 5. where he speaks of â—mistery of Christ which in other ages was not mâ— known unto the sonnes of men as it is now revealed uâ— his holy Apostles and Prophets by the spirit When it apeares that the Church is as well built upon tâ—â— foundation of the prophets to wit extraordinarâ— which then were for of them he speaketh as upâ—â— the doctrine of the Apostles and they as infalliblâ— euen for the very foundation inspired by the Holâ— Ghost as the other So that if the Prophets coâ—â— erre in doctrine then the Apostles if in doctrinâ— taught why not written and if one alone why nâ— more or all and if they might erre how know â—â— that they did not erre If he say the meaner in gift might erre but not the greater first the same folloâ—eth also touching the Apostles how much more touching the Prophets before Christ not comparible tâ— those after him why then may there not be errors in the writings especially of those meaner gifts as without doubt some were in comparison of the rest what whether this wind will bring who seeth not Moreover whereas wee propound such interpretations and doctrines as we