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cause_n	good_a	justification_n	justify_v	3,020	5	8.4033	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62157	Some queries proposed, to the monethly meeting of the Quakers at Aberdeen; the sixth day of June, 1700. By Robert Sandilands With their answers thereto; together with some remarks thereupon. Published by authority. To which is prefixed a letter from George Keith, sent to the Quakers in Aberdeen, containing a very serious and Christian expostulation with his old friends, &c.	Sandilands, Robert.; Keith, George, 1639?-1716. aut	1700 (1700)	Wing S663; ESTC R220626	23,403	36

those expressions GOD Man being born of MARIE we do not find them in the Scriptures nor do we read that MARIE was the Mother of GOD but in the Popes Canons Articles c. And what nonsense saith he page 47. ibidem and unscripture Language is this to tell of GOD being co-created with the Father or that GOD hath Glory with GOD doth not this imply two GODS and that GOD had a Father let the Reader judge and page 24. To tell of the Word GOD cocreator with the Father is all one as to tell of GOD being cocreator with GOD if the Father be GOD and this is to make two GODS two Creators c. And thus G. W. opposes the Godhead of CHRIST as he doth his Manhood in other Quotations he also denyes the Glorious Hipostatical Union that it consists of a Human and Divine Nature or that they are hipostatically one See his Christian Quaker page 141. And their Book called A Testimony for the true CHRIST pag. 8. Whereof G. W. is supposed to be the Author they deny the Humanity of CHRIST as Humanity signifies the Earthly Nature of Mans Body as coming from Humus the ground but as Humanity signifies Meekness Gentleness Mercifulness as opposite to Cruelty in this last Sense they own CHRIST's Humanity See the Quotation at large cited in G. Ks. fourth Narrative p. 70. but deny it in the former which is the true Sense of Scripture and of all true Christians And as they deny the Humanity of CHRIST so they deny Divine Worship and Honour to be given to him and consequently denyes his Divinity as William Shewen a noted Writer among them expresly sayes in his Book called a small Treatise concerning evil thoughts p. 37. Not to JESUS the Son of Abraham David and Mary Saint or Angel but to GOD the FATHER all Worship Honour and Glory is to be given Q. 9. Did CHRIST's Natural Body which was Crucified and was Buried rise again And did that Body after his Resurrection ascend into Heaven And is that Body now in Heaven A. We believe that CHRIST's Body which was Crucified and was Buried did rise again and did after his Resurrection being wonderfully glorified ascend to Heaven and is now at the Right Hand of the Majesty on high Heb. 1. 3. R. This Answer if they have no secret reserved meaning in it in all appearance seems Orthodox and agreeable to the Sense of all sound Protestants But the Reader may Compare it with what G. W. sayes in his Nature of Christianity pag. 41. What Scripture proof saith he after his socratical way of writing is there that CHRIST subsisteth outwardly Bodily without us at GOD's Right Hand and where is GOD's Right Hand is it visible or invisible within us or without us onely And is CHRIST a SAVIOUR as an outward Bodily existence or PERSON without Us distinct from GOD and on that Consideration to be Worshipped as GOD yea or nay But John Whitehead a very eminent and ancient Preacher among them is more explicit in his Postscript to a Book called the Quakers Refuge p. 90. I have several times saith he denyed that CHRIST hath now a Body of Flesh and Bone Circumscript or limited in that Heaven which is above and out of every Man on Earth And G. W. in his Light and Life pag. 38. is very plain where he expresly saith the Quakers see no need of directing men to the type for the Antitype viz. Neither to the Outward Temple nor yet to Jerusalem either to JESUS CHRIST or his Blood knowing that neither the Righteousness of Faith doth so direct Rom. 10. Q. 10 Is that Heaven into which CHRIST hath ascended in the true Glorified Nature of Man consisting of Soul and Body without us or within us only And do you own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without you as well as His spirit and Light within you A We firmly believe that that Heaven unto which CHRIST hath ascended in the 〈◊〉 Glori●●ed Nature of Man 〈…〉 of Soul and Body is without i● and u● do own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without us as well as His Spirit and Light within us Rom 8 34. Heb. 8. 1. R. This Answer may be compared with what G. F. says in his great mistery p. 214. There is none have a glory and a Heaven but within them Now if there be no glory nor Heaven without us Then how can CHRIST be ascended into a Heaven without us And W. P. redicules the locality of both Heaven and Hell and sayes in his Rejoinder p. 179. To deny it is not very offensive and that it looks too Carnal indeed Mahomitan viz. to assert it W Smith an Antient and Eminent writter among them in his Catechism p. 57. has this Question And is that which is within you the only foundation upon which you stand and the principle of your Religion answer that of GOD within us is so for we know it is CHRIST and being CHRIST it must needs be ONELY and PRINCIPAL for that which is ONELY admits not of another and that which is principal is greatest in being and thus we know CHRIST in us to be unto us the ONELY and the PRINCIPAL Q But do ye hold that this foundation and principle within you is sufficient to eternal Life A. Yes we do so And G. F. in his great mistery p. 248 says to C. Wade The Devil was in thee and thou sayeth thou art saved by CHRIST without thee And G W sayes in truth defending the Quakers p. 65 That Faith in CHRIST without men is contray to the Apolles Doctrine Is this to own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without us as A. J c asserts they do in their answer Q. 11. Are we Justified and Cleansed from Sin by the Blood of CHRIST that was outwardly shed And are we sanctified by that Blood meritoriously as by His Spirit Grace and Light in us efficiently A. We answer affirmatively R. With this affirmative answer may be compared R. Bs 7 proposition in his a pology p of his works 264 As many sayeth he as resit not this Light viz. the Light within but reserve the same it becomes in them a Holy Pure and Spiritua 〈◊〉 bringing so the Holiness Righto●sness 〈◊〉 and all those 〈…〉 fruits which are acceptable to GOD by which Holy Birth viz JESUS CHRIST formed within us and working His works in us as we are Sanctified so 〈…〉 in the ●ight of GOD according to 1 Cor. 6. 11. Here Justification and Sanctification are intirely 〈◊〉 to CHRIST the Light within and there is not one word of the outward CHRIST or his outward Blood outwardly shed Let the Reader also consider what he delivers as his 3 position in p. 370 viz That since good works as naturally flow from this Birth as heat from Fire therefore are they of absolut necessity to Justification as Causa sine qua non i. e. tho not as the Cause for which yet as that in which we are and

without which we cannot be Justified But G. W. is a litle more distinct in his 2d part of the Christian Quaker p. 126. where he sayeth But what proof hath he from Scripture that the sheding of CHRIST'S Blood was the meritorious Cause of Justification so through that whole 3d chap. he labours to prove that properly speaking it is by the Spirit and Light or CHRIST within we are Justified And in his Antidote p. 39 He affirms that the blood of his viz. CHRISTS outward blood as well as the water that came out of his side had an allegorical and mysterious signification as well as an outward and literal even of the Spiritual blood and water of Life which being compared with what he says in his Light and Life p. 59 in which he plainly denys that the material blood of the Sacrifice was a type of the material Blood of CHRIST for that were to say sayeth he that material Blood was a type of that which was material this is to give the substance no pre-eminence above the type So that tho as G. K. observes in his 3 Narrative p. 73 G. W. c. grant that a man called CHRIST was outwardly born dyed had his blood shed c yet all this was an allegory and had an allegorical signification of CHRIST truly and really without an allegory born within them crucified and dead within them his blood shed within them buried risen ascended within them atonement reconciliation c. within them And seeing they deny the merit and efficacy of CHRIST'S death and blood without and of what he did and suffered without us they are justly charged to allegorize it away that is to make no other account of it then of the History of Hagar and Sarah and other types Symbols and allegories of the Old Testament W. P. is yet more express speaking of our Justification by the Righteousness which CHRIST hath fulfilled in his own Person for us he says in his serious Appology p. 148 And indeed this we deny and boldly affirm it in the Name of the LORD to be the Doctrine of Devils and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption which does now deluge the whole World I could quote many more Passages but I refer to these following G. Ws. Light and Life p. 38. 40. c. W. Batlies Coll. p. 22 23. 577. Q. 12. Is it altogether and wholy as necessary for us to believe in CHRIST without us for our Eternal Salvation as to believe in his Spiritual Light within us and is not the Faith in the Man CHRIST as he dyed for our Sins and rose again and is at the Right Hand of GOD and maketh intercession for us according to Rom. 8. 34. necessary to be Preached frequently as well as his inward appearance by every true Minister of CHRIST A. We believe as in our Answser to the second Query that it s altogether necessary for us to believe in CHRIST without us for our Eternal Salvation where the means of the knowledge thereof can be had And also that the Faith in the Man CHRIST JESUS as he dyed for our Sins and rose again and is at the Right Hand of GOD c. is necessary to be Preached by all true Ministers as they are led thereunto by the Spirit of GOD and which is frequently practised amongst us as may be witnessed by such as come to our Meetings according to 1 Cor. 1. 23. R. The Limitation in this Answer is useless for I speak only of such as have the means and as to our Faith in CHRIST without us R. Bs. sayeth in pag. 9. of his works and whereas thou sayest you see the Apostles judges the knowledge of CHRIST Crucisied to be that one thing necessary we deny sayes R. B. that the knowledge of His being outwardly Crucified is that one thing necessary for People must know him in them And as a confirmation of this in the second Proposition of his Apologie page 269. he sayeth Which Revelation of God by the Spirit whither by outward voices or appearances dreams or inward objective manifestations in the heart were of old the formal object of their Faith and remains yet so to be since the object of the Saints Faith is the same in all Ages and in Consequence to this last part he sayes pag. 279. that which now cometh under debait is what we have asserted in the last place viz. that the same continueth to be the object of the Saints Faith to this day c. here is not one Word of Faith in CHRIST without us but on the Contrary the formal object of the Saints Faith in all Ages is inward Revelations and the Light within G. F. sayes in his great mystery p. 47. The Light which every one hath that cometh into the World is sufficient unto Salvation without the help of any other means or discovery W. P. sayes Quakerism a new Nickname pag. 12. And since they believe that outward appearance i. e. JESUS at Jerusalem they need not preach what is not to be again So then by this the Birth Life and Death c. of the Holy JESUS needs not to be Preached and indeed a great deal of the Bible is to be laid aside and not Preached according to this Maxim of W. Ps. and W Bailie an antient Writer among them sayes see his Goll p. 308. and so he taught them to Pray Our Father c. Not to look at his Person and to pray to him as a Person without them but bid them pray to the Father Then by the same Rule if not pray to Him we are not to believe in Him as a Person without us But the Reader may observe that however orthodox A. J. c. seems to be in their Answer in affirming that Faith in the Man CHRIST JESUS as he dyed c. where the meanes of the Knowledge thereof can be had c is necessary to be Preached by all true Ministers yet it is with this Proviso as they are led thereunto by the Spirit which clause seems to destroy that obligation which immediatly before they had acknowledged for suppose any or all the Preachers among the Quakers be indifferent in this matter and so quite neglect as generally they doe Preaching the Necessity of Faith in the man CHRIST without us here is a shift ready they may plead this for their excuse and say they are not led thereunto by the Spirit of God Q 13. Do you Believe that all that were saved in any Age of the World had their Sins forgiven them for the Man CHRIST JESUS his sake and on the account of his most Holy and perfect obedience unto Death and that what Light and Grace all Men ever received from GOD in former Ages or now receive or shall her after receive to the Worlds end it is given to Men for the Man CHRIST JESUS his sake by his Purchase and Merits and Continual Mediation and Intercession A. We Answer affirmatively and firmly believe it Acts 4.

12. R. This Answer the Reader may be pleased to compare with the Quotations in the Remarks on the 10 and 12. Answers Q. 14 Did not the LORD JESUS CHRIST by his most perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself which he offered up unto GOD fully satisfy the Justice of his FATHER and so pay the Ransom for the sins of Mankind Q. 15. Did CHRIST suffer the punishment due for the sins of fallen Man and did he make full payment in mans stead for the debt contracted by sin A. To both which last Queries we answer that we believe that the LORD JESUS CHRIST did freely offer himself an acceptable Sacrifice for the sins of Mankind and that the FATHER of his great mercy accepted of that Sacrifice as a sufficient expiation for the sins of the whole World as in these Scriptures 1 Pet. 1. 19. 1 Pet. 2. 24. 1 Pet. 3. 18. John 10. 14 15 17 18. Verses R. This Answer to the 14 and 15. Queries may be compared with the 11th Question in G. Ws. Appendix to the 2d part of the Christian Quaker p. 242. where it is asked whether Divine Justice did propperly and strictly require a full payment and punishment upon CHRIST in mans stead for all the debt contracted and injury done by fallen man to which it is answered No CHRIST'S sufferings were not of that nature or intent c. and thereafter he says p. 244 and see p 240 All these Scriptures relating to CHRIST'S sufferings as Isa 53 c. do all intimat GOD'S great kindness and Condescention in CHRIST JESUS and his humiliation and deep suffering under the weight and burden of sin and as by the Grace of GOD he tasted Death for every man all which fall greatly short of proving our adversaries charge against him viz that GOD poured down his Wrath and Revenge on his innocent SON for satisfaction to Divine justice in mans stead that have done the injury I say all the Sciptures alledged by them can never prove this c. Here we have a positive answer to the Queries and no shuffling or shifting the matter as A. J. and his Friends do in their answer And W. P. in his Rejoinder to Io. Faldo p. 284 and 255 Justifyeth W. Smiths saying CHRIST in us offereth himself a living Sacrifice to GOD for us by which the Wrath of GOD is appeased to us And G. W. in his Light and Life p. 44. doth also justify the same but what he sayeth is too large to be here inserted and therefore I refer the Reader to the Book it self and to G. Ks. 3 Nar. p. 24. W. P. in his reason against Railing p. 9. sayes That if it is our duty to forgive without a satisfaction received and that GOD is to forgive us as we forgive others then is a satisfaction totally excluded See also his Sandy foundation wherein he expresly argueth against CHRIST's satisfaction and insists largely on it I have not the Book at present by me so cannot quote exactly any passage out of it But above all that which I think is most horrible and blasphemous and undervaluing the sufferings of our Blessed LORD E. B. of great esteem among them sayeth in his works p. 273 printed 1672 and which his friends reprinted and approved of the sufferings sayeth he of the People of GOD called Quakers in this Age is greater suffering and more unjust then in the dayes of CHRIST or of the Apostles what was done to CHRIST or the Apostles was chiefly done by a Law and in great part by the due execution of a Law c. Q 16. Do the best works that any are enabled to perform even by the assistance of the Spirit merit pardon of sin and eternal Life A We answer negatively we have no merit all is of free Grace and mercy through CHRIST Tit. 3. 5. R. This Answer seems to bespeak a humble and self denyed frame of spirit and I am very glade to find such come from A. I. c. But I am sure their Friends books are filled with a great deal of self exaltation and abasing of all others and too much spiritual pride and boasting of their faithfulness as that by and for which they merited or hoped to attain eternal Life may be too much observed in most of their preachings and as an evidence for what I say let the Reader consider what Samuel Fisher sayeth in his Rusticus c. p 90. that because evil works saith he are the meritorious cause of our Condemnation therefore good works are the meritorious cause of our Justification See also p. 84. 88. ibid. and see also G. Ws Voice of Wisdom p. 36. Q 17. Shall the Man CHRIST JESUS come again and appear without us to judge the Quick and the Dead A. We answer affirmatively yea He shall according to these Scriptures Mat. 25 31. Acts 17 31. This Answer may be compared with what G. W. says in his Light and Life p 41. but three comings saith he not onely that in the Flesh at Jerusalem and that in the Spirit but also another coming in the Flesh yet to be expected we do not read of but a 2d coming without sin unto Salvation which in the Apostles days was looked for And in his CHRIST ascended c p. 21. 22. c. not only denyeth any personal comming of CHRIST yet to be at the end of the World but denyeth him to have a Personal Existance in Heaven without the Saints and chargeth it to be Anthropomorphism and Muggletonism See also W. Bailies Coll p. 29. Q. 18. Is there any Resurrection of the Dead that all or any of the Deceased Saints wait for and doth the same Natural Body that Dyeth rise again or is the Resurrection nothing else but what ye have already or what ye shall have immediatly after Death A. We believe that there shall be a Resurrection both of the Just and of the Unjust according to the Scriptures Acts 24 15 1 Cor. 15 5. also the same Chap. from 35 to 38 verse and we believe that the Resurrection is not already past nor is that which we shall immediatly enter into after Death R. By this answer to this 18 Q. A. J. and his friends shift the question intirely for I know that verbally they seem to own a Resurrection but that our Natural Elementary bodies shall rise again they utterly deny and oppose So G. W. argueth most violently against it in the second part of his Christian Quaker p. 352. 353. c. and so doth W. P. in his reasoning against railing p. 134 137. If the thing saith he can be the same and notwithstanding changed for shame let us never make so much stur against the Doctrin of transubstantiation for the absurdity of it is rather out down then equalled by this carnal Resurrection And R. Hubberthorn sayes Coll. p. 121 these are they that plead for a life in sin while they are here and that say that the Saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for