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A19857 A suruey of certaine dialogical discourses: vvritten by Iohn Deacon, and Iohn Walker, concerning the doctrine of the possession and dispossession of diuels VVherein is manifested the palpable ignorance and dangerous errors of the discoursers, and what according to proportion of God his truth, every christian is to hold in these poyntes. Published by Iohn Darrell minister of the gospell. Darrel, John, b. ca. 1562. 1602 (1602) STC 6285; ESTC S109295 85,966 179

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to the parties faith vpon whome they were done Be of good cheere daughter saith he thy faith hath saued thee Math. 9.22 And that we may know this faith receauing his great workes was in some a iustifying faith to some he saide before he did the worke Thy sinns are forgiuen thee Now what doe you obiect against this doctrine Math. 9 2● Whereas the words of our Sauiour All things are possible to him that beleeueth make for confirmation thereof you reply Marke 9.23 pag 294. This faith was not the Exorcist faith but of the parties possess●d I answer we know no such difference as it some one or two were Exorcists amongst vs all the rest of the people of other condicion but the whole congregation is of one office and one faith in this businesse we be all ioint Exorcists as I may so say and by way of obteyning throwers out of Sathan Againe you obiect That if iustifyi●g faith hath this power pag. 295 then it b●longeth indifferently to all the elect of God which I yealde you But then say you They which cannot effect this worke may doubt of their iustification I answer this obiection sauors of very gross ignorance You should be able to teach others that the Lord hath not tyed himselfe to one vniforme order in bestowing of corporall blessings as if all his children should obteine all at all times He hath not definitiuely set downe in his worde what and when he wil giue vs in this kinde but hath onely promised them vpon this condicion So far as the good of his children and his owne glorye shall require Therefore though he graunt these outward things to some and deny them being requested to other some this difference is no cause we should stagger in our iustification Beesides say you If Iustifying faith were of this force it would haue bene mentiōed in such places where the effects of saith are purposely registred Proue that al the effects of iustifying faith are there mentioned particulerly by name else you trifle Albeit S. Iames saith If we resist the diuell ●e shall fly noting generally our victory against him Iames 4 7 pag. 296 c. Ma● 16 17 18 not onely in his assaults but also in his possessions Expelling of diuels mentioned in S. Marke belonged to a miraculous faith which was peculiarly giuen to some of the Christians of that age Doctrine pag. ●3 Detection in the epistle such as were hearers of the Apostles and beleeuers by their preachinge as heeretofore I haue shewed more then once And therefore you might haue saued that labour in vsing so many wordes citing so many testimonies to proue the Sunne shines in a cleare heauen at mid-day A Suruey of the Tenth Dialogue The tenth Dialogue treateth of Miracles and laboreth to ouerthrow dispossession of diuels in these times because such dispossession is a miracle miracles be expired long since In prosecuting of which argument it is strange to see how the Discoursers beate themselues with their owne rod. They would prooue vnto vs that miracles are ceased yet afford vs no small miracle in their owne persons For is it not wonderfull that men thinking themselues to haue some sharpnesse of wit to be furnished with sufficient copy of wordes to haue perused many bookes and to haue gathered great variety of learning after some long time spent in deliberation and conferēce and then aduisedly committing to writing what they had cōceaued Should notwithstanding all this like men skarred out of their wits and vtterly bereft of all power of discerning take shadowes for bodies bushes for men chalke for cheese and grope in the sun light as in the darknesse They haue shewed incredible blindenes in their former discourses but in this booke of Miracles it is Miraculous to behould the palpable errours they runne into It may be they did of purpose herein obserue a decorum that the strange handling of the matter might be sutable to the title But that I doe not seeme to charge them wrongfully I will betake my selfe to the Suruey first for more plainesse setting downe the truth in this poynt and after rifle vp their pedlers pack of deuices A true miracle therefore breifly may be defined thus That it is an hard and vn-vsuall worke surpassing all faculty of created nature done by the devine power to that ende it may moue the behoulders with admiration and confirme their faith in the word of God These true Miracles be of two sortes for eyther they be wrought by the Lorde himselfe without any apparant meanes to vs or else are effected by the ministery of man Of the former kinde was the bush that burned Exod 3.2 Exod 13 21. 2 Kings 19.35 and consumed not in the sight of Moses the pyllar of a cloude by day and the pyllar of fire by night conducting the children of Israel out of Aegipt the slaughter in Senacheribs host of an hundred fourscore and fiue thousand in one night the star that directed the wise men out of the East Math. 2 2 to the place of our Sauiours birth such like Concerning miracles of this nature if one shall demaund whether they be ceased or no it is to be answered they are not For the Lorde hath reserued this liberty to himselfe by extraordinary power to reueale his iudgments to the world when and where it shall seeme best vnto him And therefore our Sauiour speakinge of his comming saith There shall be signes in the sunne in the Moone Luke 21 25 26. and in the stars the power of heauen shall be shaken Shall we think these are no miracles or that they be past and not to come Experience also confirmes the same It were infi●nite to gather what hath hapned in all ages since the publishing of the Gospell I wil remember onely one or two for example in our owne times Was it not the admiration of all Christendome to behould that bright and cleare new star which appeared in the yeare 1572 continuing almost six monethes But to come to our owne home was it not a greate miracle that at a place called Kynnastone neere Marcleech hil in the county of Heref rd certaine rookes with a peece of ground of twenty sixe acres remoued and went forward the space of foure daies remouing forty paces in twelue houres carrying great trees sheep coates some with threescore sheepe in them ouerthrowing Kennastone chappel altering two high waies nigh an hundred yardes and where tillage ground was leauing pasture and where pasture there tillage yet all this was seene amongst vs the 17. of Feb. in the yere 1571. Therefore to speake in confused tearmes that miracles are ceased without distinction of their nature is the parte of ignorante men and of such as neither would finde out the truth nor teach it but only deceaue thēselues other with general words That second sort of miracles which is done by the ministery of men are all
3 Gennad in definit ecclesie dogmat Bernard Ser 5 Super cantic Aug de divinat doemon● cap 5 and a violent oppression he is nerely vnited vnto it VVhat els is this application neere vnion vnto the minde but the ioyning of himselfe to the phantasy and affections the next neighbors to the vnderstandinge will So Bernard requireth the entercourse of some instrument wherby created Spirits might be applyed to the minde that is the Imagynations affections which be instrumentall and by which they doe exceedingly worke vpon the highest powers in our nature And Augustine is most plaine avouchinge that Divels perswade by marueilous and inuisible meanes by their subtilty pearcing into the bodies of men not at all perceaving thē mingling themselues with their cogitations by certain imaginarie sights whether they be waking or sleeping But this is principally cōfirmed by the scriptures thēselues for that angels making their apparitions in sleepe performe their operatiōs immediatly The outward sences at such time are all bound so that by them they cannot conuey any thing from without to the powers within Example we haue in Ioseph Math 1 20. to whome an angell appeared in sleepe bidding him not feare to take Mary his wife And as this Angell did speake in Ioseph Zach 1 9 2 3 Zach 1 8 so it might seeme the Angell which talked with Zachary did speake in Zachary as the naturall force of the word doth signify And the Angell saith he which talked in me This visyon made to Zachary was in the night for so he saith I saw by night And this manner of speach to see by night Dan. 7.13 Dan 7 1 or to see night visions is all one to see a dreame For so Daniell speaketh I sawe saith he by night visions when as before he had declared it was by dreame Daniell saw a dreame and there were visions in his head hee lying vpon his bed Therefore Augustine had good reason to dispute of this place of Zachary as he did considering Night apparitions the force of the originall word and the greeke interpretors so care fully expressing it pag 59 notwithstāding whatsoeuer these men say to the cōtrary Besides experiēce also giueth no small light to this matter It must needes be that wicked horrible cogitations such as make a man euen to tremble for feare should eyther arise fr●m the corruption of the flesh or from some outward cause or else from the reall presence of some wicked spirit mouing the phantasy But the flesh is no author of such horrour which by all meanes it escheweth affording rather all flattering and intising allurements to perswade the minde by neither is there any outward cause or occasion wherby the thoughts should be so greuously assaulted as is apparant in diuers so afflicted It remayneth then they be stirred vp by the personall presence only of him which if he be manfully withstood by faith will fly away Iam 5 This I take to be the truth in this poynt warranted both from the scriptures and from consent of cheifest interpretors If these things now be so though you should demonstrate the diuell doth not enter really into the minde yet if he be so nere the phantasie other inferiour parts he will be found to be within a mile of him whome he doth possesse and you to haue powred forth a great company of big wordes to small purpose If I desired to shew how when you haue a good cause you handle it full yll I might fitly doe it heere That there is no mentall possession you proue thus The divells as also mans minde are created of god for other more speciall ends pag. 46 47 As if things destinated to some principall end may not in meane season be vsed to other inferiour purposes Mat 25 34 Rom. 8 36 The elect are appointed to be heires of the kingdome yet in this world they be as the sheepe of the slaughter Indeede if you had shewed that god neuer purposed any such thing you had said somewhat Againe say you The reall entrance into the spirits of men doth obscure the peculiar office of the holy ghost which is repl●tiuely to inhabite in our harts for ever If any sholde affirme such entrāce he would not be so mad as to say that spirits were there repletiuly Seeing then there is no equality of their inbeing supposing such a thing it doth no more obscure his office then the light of a candle the cleare sun-shine Further you say whereas there be three maners only of inbeeing essentially none of all these doth agree to the inbeing of wicked spirits I answer to admit this inherency for this present dispute they be there definitiuely Then say you they are only there in conceit what say you are diuells in the Aer but only in conceyt are they any other waies there then definitiuely This conceyt of yours makes diuells but a meere fancy I thought you had ment good footh in your first dialogue but such counterbuffs as this would make one beleeue you are priuately of other iudgment whatsoeuer there you pretend Notwithstanding these and other such like reasons of yours which for breuity I omit the diuel may possesse the soule of man as well as his body Such acute disputers are ye It is no maruaile though you maintayne your bad cause as you doe when you mannage a good no better A Survey of the third Dialogue The third Dialogue handles two conclusions The first That spirits diuels doe not enter essentially into the possessed mans bodie The second That they haue no true naturall bodies for this purpose culiar to themselues importing a necessity of naturall bodies for a reall entrance A thing most absurd That spirits doe enter really into mens bodies we haue partely heard but it is more euident by that which followeth Math. 1 20 Heb. 1 14. They present themselues to the phantasy without mediation of any outward sence not by way of influence themselues being absent as the sune abidinge in the heauens pearceth with his beames to the earth by personall presence therefore which is required in their actions For which cause they be Angels that is R●porters sent forth to the ministerie as the example of Gabriel sent to Daniel Mary declare Againe they which dealt with familiar spirits are tearmed by the 70. Interpretours Engastrimythi that is such as speake after an extraordinary manner out of their bellies not as if they had a drum by their sides but from a reall being of a spirit in them For so it is said concerning them in Levi● 19 21 Engastrumeni Aristoph in uespis If a man or a woman haue a spirit of diuination or southsayinge in them c. Of whome Theodoret speaketh thus Some by certaine divels being swollen in th ir bellies deceiued many of the simple as f●retelling forsooth things to come which the Grecians tearme Bowel-prophets f●r that the diuel seemed to speake from with