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A10373 The prerogative of parlaments in England proued in a dialogue (pro & contra) betweene a councellour of state and a iustice of peace / written by the worthy (much lacked and lamented) Sir W. R. Kt. ... ; dedicated to the Kings Maiesty, and to the House of Parlament now assembled ; preserued to be now happily (in these distracted times) published ... Raleigh, Walter, Sir, 1552?-1618. 1628 (1628) STC 20649; ESTC S1667 50,139 75

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first so published that all men might plead it for their advantage but a Charter was left in deposito in the hands of the Archbishop of Canterbury for the time and so to his successours Stephen Langthon who was euer a Traytor to the King produced this Charter and shewed it to the Barons thereby encouraging them to make warre against the King Neither was it the old Charter simplie the Barons sought to haue cōfirmed but they presented vnto the King other articles and orders tending to the alteration of the whole common-wealth which when the King refused to signe the Barons presently put themselues into the field and in rebellious and outragious fashion sent the King word except he confirmed them they would not desist from making warre against him till he had satisfied them therein And in conclusion the king being betrayed of all his Nobility in effect was forced to graunt the Charter of Magna Charta and Charta de Forestis at such time as he was invironed with an Army in the meadowes of Staynes which Charters being procured by force Pope Innocent afterward disavowed threatned to curse the Barons if they submitted not themselues as they ought to their Soueraigne Lord which when the Lords refused to obey the King entertained an army of strangers for his own defence wherewith hauing mastered beaten the Barons they called in Lewes of France a most vnnaturall resolution to be their King Neither was Magna charta a law in the 19 th of Henry the 2● but simply a Charter which hee confirmed in the 21 ● of his reigne made it a law in the 25 th according to Littletons opinion Thus much for the beginning of the great Charter which had first an obscure birth from vsurpation and was secondly fostered shewed to the world by rebellion IVST I cannot deny but that all your Lordship hath said is true but seeing the Charters were afterwards so many times confirmed by Parliament made lawes that there is nothing in them vnequall or prejudicial to the King doth not your Honour thinke it reason they should be obserued COVNS Yes obserued they are in all that the state of a King can permit for no man is destroyed but by the lawes of the land no man disseized of his inheritance but by the lawes of the land imprisoned they are by the prerogatiue wherē the King hath cause to suspect their loyaltie for were it otherwise the King should neuer come to the knowledge of any conspiracy or treason against his Person or state and being imprisoned yet doth not any man suffer death but by the law of the land IVST But may it please your Lordship were not Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins imprisoned being no suspition of treason there COVNS They were but it cost them nothing IVST And what got the King by it for in the conclusion besides the murmure of the people Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins hauing greatly ouershot themselues and repented them a fine of 5 or 600 l was laid on his Maiesty for their offences for so much their diet cost his Maiestie COVNS I know who gaue the advice sure I am that it was none of mine But thus I say if you consult your memory you shall finde that those kings which did in their own times confirme the Magna Charta did not onely imprison but they caused of their Nobility and others to bee slaine without hearing or tryall IVST My good Lord if you will giue me leaue to speak freely I say that they are not well advised that perswade the King not to admit the Magna Charta with the former reseruations For as the King can neuer loose a farthing by it as I shall proue anon So except England were as Naples is and kept by Garrisons of another Nation it is impossible for a King of England to greaten and inrich himselfe by any way so assuredly as by the loue of his people For by one rebellion the King hath more losse then by a hundred yeares observance of Magna Charta For therein haue our Kings beene forced to compound with Roagues and Rebels and to pardon them yea the state of the King the Monarchie the Nobility haue beene endangered by them COVNS Well Sir let that passe why should not our kings raise mony as the kings of France doe by their letters and Edicts only for since the time of Lewes the 11 th of whom it is said that hee freed the French Kings of their wardship the French Kings haue seldome assembled the States for any contribution IVST I will tell you why the strength of England doth consist of the people and Yeomanry the Pesants of France haue no courage nor armes In France euery Village and Burrough hath a castle which the French call Chastean Villain euery good citty hath a good Cittadell the king hath the Regiments of his guards and his men at armes alwayes in pay yea the Nobility of France in whom the strength of France consists doe alwaies assist their King in those leavies because them selues being free they make the same leavies vpon their tennants But my Lord if you marke it France was neuer free in effect from ciuill warres and lately it was endangered either to be conquered by the Spaniard or to be cantonized by the rebellious French themselues since that freedome of Wardship But my good Lord to leaue this digression that wherein I would willingly satisfie your Lordship is that the kings of England haue neuer receiued losse by Parliament or preiudice COVNS No Sir you shall find that the subiects in Parliament haue decreed great things to the disadvantage and dishonour of our kings in former times IVST My good Lord to avoide confusion I will make a short repetition of them all and then your Lordship may obiect where you see cause And I doubt not but to giue your Lordship satisfaction In the sixt yeare of Henry the 3 rd there was no dispute the house gaue the King two shillings of euery plough land within England and in the end of the same yeare he had escuage paid him to wit for euery knights fee two markes in siluer In the fifth yeare of that King the Lords demaunded the confirmation of the Great Charter which the kings Councell for that time present excused alleadging that those priviledges were extorted by force during the Kings Minoritie and yet the King was pleased to send forth his writ to the Sheriffes of euery county requiring them to certifie what those liberties vvere and hovv vsed in exchange of the Lords demaund because they pressed him so violently the king required all the castles places which the Lords held of his had held in the time of his Father vvith those Manors Lordships vvhich they had heeretofore vvrested from the Crovvne vvhich at that time the King being provided of forces they durst not deny In the 14 th yeare he had the 15 th peny of all goods giuen him vpon condition to
again the reuenue kept vp vpō that which is superfluous Is it a losse to the K. to be beloued of the Commons if it be revenue which the K. seekes is it not better to take it of those that laugh than of those that crie Yea if all bee content to pay vpon a moderation and chaunge of the Species Is it more honourable and more safe for the King that the Subject pay by perswasion then to haue them constrayned If they be contented to whip themselues for the King were it not better to giue them their rod into their owne hands than to commit them to the executioner Certainly it is farre more happy for a Soveraigne Prince that a Subject open his purse willingly than that the same bee opened by violence Besides that when impositions are laid by Parliament they are gathered by the authority of the lawe which as aforesaid rejecteth all complaints and stoppeth every mutinous mouth It shall ever be my praier that the King embrace the Councell of honour and safety let other Princes embrace that of force COVNS But good Sir it is his Prerogatiue which the K. stands vpon and it is the Prerogatiue of the kings that the Parliaments doe all diminish IVST If your Lordship would pardon mee I would say then that your Lordships objection against Parliaments is ridiculous In former Parliaments three thinges haue beene supposed dishonour of the King The first that the Subjects haue conditioned with the King when the King hath needed them to haue the great Charter confirmed the second that the Estates haue made Treasurers for the necessary and profitable disbursing of those summes by them given to the end that the kinges to whom they were giuen should expend them for their owne defence for the defence of the common-wealth The third that these haue prest the King to discharge some great Officers of the Crowne and to elect others As touching the first my Lord I would faine learne what disadvantage the Kings of this Land haue had by confirming the great Charter the breach of which haue served onely men of your Lordships ranke to assist their owne passions and to punish and imprison at their owne discretion the Kings poore Subjects Concerning their private hatred with the colour of the Kings service for the Kings Majestie takes no mans inheritance as I haue said before nor any mans life but by the Law of the land according to the Charter Neither doth his Majestie imprison any man matter of practice which concernes the preservation of his estate excepted but by the law of the land And yet hee vseth his prerogatiue as all the Kings of England haue ever vsed it for the supreame reason cause to practise many thinges without the aduice of the law As in insurrections and rebellions it vseth the marshall and not the common law without any breach of the Charter the intent of the Charter cōsidered truely Neither hath any Subject made complaint or beene grieued in that the Kings of this land for their own safties and preservation of their estates haue vsed their Prerogatiues the great Ensigne on which there is written soli Deo And my good Lord was not Buckingham in England and Byron in France condemned their Peeres vncall'd And withall was not Byron vtterly contrary to the customes priviledges of the French denyed an advocate to assist his defence for where lawes forecast cannot prouide remedies for future daungers Princes are forced to assist themselues by their prerogatiues But that which hath beene ever grievous and the cause of many troubles very dangerous is that your Lordships abusing the reasons of state doe punish and imprison the Kings Subiects at your pleasure It is you my Lords that when Subjects haue sometimes neede of the Kings prerogatiue doe then vse the strength of the law and when they require the lawe you afflict them with the prerogatiue and tread the great Charter which hath beene confirmed by 16. actes of Parliament vnder your feete as a torne parchment or wast paper COVNS Good Sir which of vs doe in this sort breake the great Charter perchance you meane that we haue aduised the King to lay the new impositions IVST No my Lord there is nothing in the great Charter against impositions and besides that necessity doth perswade them And if necessity doe in somewhat excuse a private man a fortiori it may then excuse a Prince Againe the Kinges Majestie hath profit and increase of revenue by the impositions But there are of your Lordships contrary to the direct letter of the Charter that imprison the Kinges Subjects and deny them the benefit of the law to the Kings disprofit And what do you otherwise thereby if the impositions be in any sort grievous but Renovare dolores and withall digge out of the dust the long-buried memory of the Subjects former intentions with their Kings COVNS What meane you by that IVST I will tell your Lordshippe when I dare in the meane time it is enough for mee to put your Lordship in minde that all the estates in the world in the offence of the people haue either had profit or necessity to perswade them to adventure it of which if neither bee vrgent and yet the Subject exceedingly grieved your Lordship may conjecture that the House will bee humble suitors for a redresse And if it bee a Maxime in policie to please the people in all thinges indifferent and neuer suffer them to bee beaten but for the Kinges benefit for there are no blowes forgotten with the smart but those then I say to make them vassals to vassals is but to batter downe those mastering buildings erected by King Henry the seaventh and fortified by his Sonne by which the people and Gentlemen of England were brought to depend vpon the King alone Yea my good Lord our late deare Soveraigne kept them vp and to their advantage as well repaired as ever Prince did Defend mee and spend me saith the Irish churle COVNS Then you thinke that this violent breach of the Charter will be the cause of seeking the confirmation of it in the next Parliament which otherwise could neuer haue bin moued IVST I knowe not my good Lord perchance not for if the House presse the King to graunt vnto them all that is theirs by the lawe they cannot in justice refuse the King all that is his by the lawe And where will bee the issue of such a contention I dare not divine but sure I am that it will tend to the preiudice both of the K and subiect COVN If they dispute not their owne liberties why should they then dispute the Kings liberties which wee call his prerogatiue IVST Among so many so diverse spirits no man can foretell what may be propounded but howsoeuer if the matter be not slightly handled on the Kings behalfe these disputes will soone dissolue for the King hath so little neede of his prerogatiue and so great advantage by the lawes as
the subsedy Bookes wee found the summe but smal whē the 30 ● men were left out In the beginning of his fourth yeare a tenth with a fifteene vvere granted vpon condition that for one vvhole yeare no subsedies should bee demaunded but this promise vvas as suddenly forgotten as made for in the end of that yeare the great subsedy of Poll mony vvas granted in the Parliament at Northampton COVNS Yea but there follovved the terrible Rebellion of Baker Straw and others Leister Wrais and others IVST That vvas not the fault of the Parliament my Lord it is manifest that the subsedy giuen vvas not the cause for it is plaine that the bondmen of England began it because they vvere grieuously prest by their Lords in their tenure of Villenage as also for the hatred they bare to the Lavvyers Attorneyes for the story of those times say that they destroyed the houses Mannors of men of lavv and such Lavvyers as they caught slevv them beheaded the Lord chiefe Iustice which commotion being once begun the head mony was by other Rebels pretended A fire is often kindled with a litle straw which oftentimes takes hold of greater timber consumes the whole building And that this Rebellion was begun by the discontented slaues whereof there haue beene many in Elder times the like is manifest by the Charter of Manumission which the King granted in haec verba Rich. Dei gratia c. Sciatis quòd de gratia nostrâ spirituals manumissimus c. to which seeing the King was constrained by force of armes hee revoked the letters Pattents and made them voide the same revocation being strengthened by the Parliament ensuing In which the King had giuen him a subsedy vpon wools called a Maletot In the same fourth yeare was the Lord Treasurer discharged of his Office and Hales Lord of S Iohns chosen in his place In his fift yeare was the Treasurer againe changed and the Staffe giuen to Segraue and the Lord Chancellour was also changed and the staffe giuen to the Lord Scroope Which Lord Scroope was againe in the beginning of his sixt yeare turned out and the King after that he had for a while kept the Seale in his own hand gaue it to the Bishop of London from vvhom it vvas soone after taken bestovved on the Earle of Suffolke vvho they say had abused the king and converted the kings Treasure to his ovvne vse To this the King condiscended and though saith Walsingham he deserued to loose his life and goods yet he had the fauor to goe at liberty vpō good sureties because the K. vvas but yong that the reliefe granted vvas committed to the trust of the Earle of Arundell for the furnishing of the Kings Navy against the French COVNS Yet you see it vvas a dishonor to the K. to haue his beloued Chancellour remoued IVS. Truly no for the K. had both his fine 1000 lāds a subsedy to boot And though for the present it pleased the K. to fancy a man all the vvorld hated the K s passiō ouercōming his Iudgmēt yet it cānot be cal'd a dishonor for the K. is to belieue the general coūsel of the kingdom to prefer it before his affection especially vvhen Suffolk vvas proued to be false euen to the K for were it otherwise loue and affection might bee called a frenzie and a madnesse for it is the nature of humane passions that the loue bredde by fidelity doth change it selfe into hatred when the fidelity is first changed into falshood COVNS But you see there were thirteene Lords chosen in the Parliament to haue the oversight of the government vnder the King IVS No my Lord it was to haue the oversight of those Officers which saith the Story had imbezeled lewdly wasted and prodigally spent the Kings treasure for to the Cōmission to those Lords or to any six of them joyn'd with the Kings Counsell was one of the most royall and most profitable that euer he did if hee had bin constant to himself But my good Lord man is the cause of his own misery for I wil repeate the substance of the commission granted by the K confirmed by Parliament which whether it had bin profitable for the K. to haue prosecuted your Lordship may judge The preamble hath these words Whereas our Sovereigne Lord the King perceiveth by the greivous complaints of the Lords Commons of this Realme that the rents profits revenues of this Realme by the singular and insufficient Councell and evill gouernment aswell of some his late great Officers and others c. are so much withdrawen wasted eloyued giuen granted alienated destroyed and evill dispended that he is so much impoverished and void of treasure and goods and the substance of the Crown so much diminished and destroyed that his estate may not honorably be sustained as appertayneth The K. of his free will at the request of the Lords and Commons hath ordayned Williā Archbishop of Canterbury and others with his Chancellour Treasurer keeper of his privy seale to survey and examine as well the estate and governance of his house c. as of all the rents and profits and revenues that to him appertayneth and to be due or ought to appertaine and be due c. And all manner of gifts graunts alienations and confirmations made by him of lands tenements rents c. bargained and sold to the preiudice of him and his Crowne c. And of his iewels goods which were his Grandfathers at the time of his death c. and where they be become This is in effect the substance of the commission which your Lordship may reade at large in the booke of Statutes this commission being enacted in the tenth yere of the Kings reigne Now if such a commission were in these daies granted to the faithfull men that haue no interest in the sales gifts nor purchases nor in the keeping of the jewells at the Queenes death nor in the obtaining graunts of the Kings best lands I cannot say what may be recouered justly recovered and what say your Lordship was not this a noble acte for the King if it had beene followed to effect COVNS I cannot tell whether it were or no for it gaue power to the Commissioners to examine all the graunts IVST Why my Lord doth the King graunt any thing that shames at the examination are not the Kings graunts on record COVNS But by your leaue it is some dishonour to a King to haue his judgement called in question IVST That is true my Lord but in this or vvhensoever the like shall be graunted in the future the Kings judgement is not examined but their knavery that abused the K. Nay by your favour the contrary is true that vvhen a King will suffer himselfe to bee eaten vp by a company of petty fellowes by himselfe raised there in both the judgement and courage is disputed And if your Lordship vvill disdaine it at your own servants