Linguistic DNA - Concept Modelling Demonstrator

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	good_a	great_a	word_n	2,991	5	3.7261	3	true

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13880	A defence of the ecclesiastical discipline ordayned of God to be vsed in his Church Against a replie of Maister Bridges, to a briefe and plain declaration of it, which was printed An[no]. 1584. Which replie he termeth, A defence of the gouernement established in the Church of Englande, for ecclesiasticall matters.	Travers, Walter, 1547 or 8-1635.	1588 (1588)	STC 24183; ESTC S118502	153,730	244

receyue our information herein so farre as we shal be able to make good proofe by the holy worde of God coÌ„cerning his ordinance in these matters I doubt not then but the certayne trueth of the pointes sett downe in the declaration would appeare vnto them to the great honour of God and vnspeakeable ioy and comfort of all the Church amongst vs. Nowe followeth the third and last sentence of those which are set downe for the foundation of all the Discipline This sentence is that the order which God hath prescribed for the directing of his church is not to be learned els-where then in the holy worde of God For proofe whereof is alleadged 2. Tim. 3. vers 16.17 This trueth the Replyer if hee agree with him selfe in like maner yeeldeth vnto with this condition if it be vnderstoode that all generall or particular orders in the externall gouernement of the church are either expreslie specified in Gods holy worde or inclusiuelie comprehended in it This is the substance of his Replie to this point wherein he is to knowe that it is not otherwise meant but that eyther by playne euidence or necessarie consequence they are to bee shewed to haue their ground in the worde of God for the substance therfore of this point we are agreed In this place without all maner of occasion offred him he falleth into the mention of a booke which he termeth our communion booke and sayth to be intituled The forme of common prayers administration of the Sacramentes c. agreeable to Gods worde and the vse of the reformed Churches Such a booke in deede bearing that tytle there hath bin much speach of it is saide as it had bin twise before so this last Parliament nowe the thirde time to haue bin presented to that high and Honorable Court Wherof because the speaches were diuers many haue bin in doubt what they should iudge of it Therefore I doubt not but that one no better affected to it then he is and sheweth him selfe to be both in calling it our communion booke meaning as it seemeth that it was reuisited and considered by sundrie faythfull Ministers of the Gospell and by their meanes procured to be presented in Parliament and in his readines to finde faulte with it without cause but he hath obserued some notable matter in it that may stay the vncertayne and doubtfull opinions of many concerning it and may certifie them vpon good and sufficient grounde of iust cause to disallowe it The matter which he noteth in it is that in the title of it it is sayd to be agreeable to the worde of God and the vse of the reformed churches And this is all that he noteth in it whereby it may seeme to be a holy booke and worthie to bee written in letters of golde if it bee such a one as so ill an eye lookinge into it could finde nothing reproueable in it but this that it is agreeable to Gods worde and the vse of the best reformed Churches He might easilie finde as great a stayne as this is in the most orient pearle that euer came froÌ„ the Indies Such a pearle was in deede worthie to bee set in the Diademe of a Prince and meete to be presented to so noble a State as is the State of that honourable assemblie If there were a Gentleman in all the lande fearing God in trueth with singlenes and sinceritie of harte wise without cunning and deceytfull practises zealous of the honor and seruice of God louing his CouÌ„trey with most tender affection constant in the trueth with a christian magnanimitie such a man surelie were a personage qualified for such a purpose as to make tender to the States of a lande of such a booke as is agreable to Gods word and the vse of the best reformed Churches If amongest all the Gentlemen of a Countrey there were two graced of God with rare and excellent giftes of true pitie and zeale of knowledge and vnderstanding in other good learning and especiallie in the heauenlie knowledge of diuinitie and in it particularlie of the Discipline and spiritual pollicie of the church and of so gracious speach vtterance that the hearers might after truelie report and saye of them Wee sawe them as men that looked into the glorie of God and had bin chaunged into the similitude and likenes of the Lordes owne glorie wee heard them as they that seemed to vs to speake not with the tongues of men but of Aungelles for howe did our hartes burne within vs when we hearde them so zealouslie mightilie pleade on the behalf of God and perswade the receyuing of a booke that had all things in it agreeable to Gods worde and the vse of the best reformed churches surelie such men were fitt aduocates to speake in a cause so holy and so importing the honour of God and the comfort of his people If there were in the Ministerie true and faithfull seruauntes of God such as seeke not them selues but the thinges that belong to Christ Iesus And if there were of euerie Countrie men indued with pitie knowledge wisedome care of the Church the flowre of a lande assembled togither these were in deede for such a purpose to laye their heades togither and to conferre howe they might with most grace set out such a iewell to winne fauor to drawe loue wheresoeuer it should be seene and especiallie of those who should most of all take pleasure in iewelles of price For wherein could any mans giftes be better imployed then in recoÌ„mending for publique prayers and administration of the Sacramentes such a booke as is agreeable with the worde of God and the vse of the best reformed Churches Belike such a booke mainteyned not an vnlearned ministerie nor a pontificall Hierarchie which willinglie goe togither and vpholde one another nor reading of Apocripha rather then Canonicall scriptures in the publique assemblie of the Church nor priuate administration of the Sacra nor cases of necessitie of them implying the erroneous doctrine of conference of grace by them for the deede done nor the baptisme of women nor coÌ„firmation as an ordinance to giue increase of grace nor Bishops of a seuerall ordination and power from other Pastours nor Deacons without anie charge of the poore nor power to minister baptisme without like power to administer the Lordes supper nor to minister both without power to preach except further licence be grauÌ„ted these such like matters no doubt such a booke could not mainteyne it being apparant what the worde of God is herein and the vse of the reformed churches Contrariwise it must needes be that such a booke appointeth that all Ministers of Sacra should be preachers that preaching bee ioyned alwayes with the ministerie of the Sacramentes and that they be alwayes ministred in the publique assemblie that they bee not diuided from preaching nor one from another in the pastours calling that the Deacons relieue the poore and the Eldership direct the causes of the

that is with the persons he nameth the former of them we acknowledge M. Cartwright reuerence as his rare giftes of knowledge and zeale and his learned workes coÌ„stant suffring in this cause and at this time his continuall trauell in preaching the gospell doe worthilie deserue for whiche causes he was worthie other respect then the Replier here doeth giue him If he would needes sett downe his name considering the example of the Apostle who notwithstandinge he farre excelled in office and in giftes yet seldome or neuer mencioneth anie Minister of the gospell by name yea scarse any professour without some good marke of the grace of god in them but this and a great deale more both he and whosoeuer shall serue God as they ought in this cause of the further reformation of our Church must account to endure of them that oppose them selues to this most necessarie seruice As for the other that he obiecteth to him concerneth not any of those in whose name the Declaration was published But for the matter of necessitie this worde being taken as hath bin aboue declared a little before in this defence it may stande well inough togither to say as the declaration sayeth that God hath set downe in his worde an order to direct his Church in all things partayning to the saluation of it and yet that some Churches may be worthilie acknowledged the true Churches of God although they haue not in all pointes kept that order For all the things in that order doe not in like degree partayne to saluation which if they did his reason were good but it being otherwise fayleth He him selfe a little before acknowledgeth outward orders in their degrees as necessarie to edification though sayth he not directlie partayning to the necessitie of saluation which we agree to be true in some but that he addeth there nor to the necessitie of obedience is not true in such orders as haue their particular grounde in the worde of God which point because he returneth vnto agayne in this place and often hereafter hee is to vnderstande his answere herein once for all which is as hath bin partlie touched before that certayne pointes of the Discipline are of necessitie to saluation in such absolute degree of necessitie as is of any ordinarie outward meanes Of which sorte is the ministerie of the worde and of the Sacramentes and of the censures of the Church whiche are appointed for the winning of th'offendour and for the sauing of his spirite in the day of the Lorde as we are expreslie taught by our Sauiour Christ in the gospell and by the Apostle Paule in the 5. Mat. 18. of his former Epistle to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 5. Wherevppon it consequentlie followeth that the sufficiencie of the ministerie to teache and to exhort according to sound doctrine and to conuince the gayn-sayer likewise their ordinarie residence and diligent attendance vpon the Church whose seruantes they are in the Lord is partayning to the saluation of soules For it is saide That where vision or prophesie that is interpretation of scriptures fayleth there the people perisheth or is made naked Pro 1.29.18 that is exposed to all daunger Mat. 9.36 and our Sauior Christ yearned in his bowelles vpon the people seeing them as sheepe without shepheardes that is in daunger to be made a praye to Satan that roaring Lion who goeth about coÌ„tinuallie to seeke whom he may deuoure In like maner because this is the vse of the censures to serue immediatlie to the recouerie of the sinner to repentance that he may be saued the office of Elders who are by the ordinaÌ„ce of God to keepe the Lords watch ouer the Church and to procure the repentance of the sinner is in his place necessarie which thing being necessarie it followeth also that other inferior meanes which serue herevnto without which these holy offices can not bee thus established nor discharged are in their degree also necessarie The Deacons office is not so directlie tending to the saluation of the soule as these are but rather regardeth the reliefe of the outwarde necessities of the poore and afflicted of the Churche yet not without respect to comfort and confirme their faith in him by whose holy ordinance they are so prouided for But being as it is the ordinance of God that there should be Deacons in the Church for such vses this office is also of the necessitie of obedience And generallie so are all the offices and orders sett downe in the Declaration because they are all ordayned of God to be kept for great and necessarie vse in the church to the ende of the world as it is to be iustified in their seuerall places when we come vnto them So as this is brieflie that we affirme herein that sundrie pointes of the matters of the ecclesiasticall pollicie set downe in the Declaration are directlie partayning to saluation and in that respect necessarie and both they and all the rest are by the appointment and ordinance of God to be continued in the Church and in the necessitie of obedience they are all likewise necessarie Yet where this order appointed of God is not kept by reason of ignorance and wante of due information of the will of God or meanes to performe it or of humane infirmitie such as flesh and blood is subiect vnto it followeth not that they are therefore no church of God The holy ordinances of God were horribly profaned by the sonnes of Elie 1. Sam. 2.17 so as for their abhominations the people of God began to abhorre the seruice of God yet was the Church of God still amongst them The Prophetes in their time charged the Priestes with breach of the couenant that God had made with Leui their Father Mal. 2.5.8 with their ignorance Esai 29. in being a number of them not able to teache the people with their flatteries and bolstring vp of the sinnes of all estates and degrees Esa 56.10 and saying all was well when there were a number of thinges that needed reformation amongst them Iere. 6.13.14 they charged them with ambition with couetousnes Iere 8.8 9.11.12 with prophanenes and many other great enormities yet did the Prophetes continue their teaching of the people and acknowledged the people notwithstandinge to be the people of God Yea euen what the people offered vppon the highe places and the Lordes altar was remoued and put to the wall and the altar of Damascus sett in the place thereof all which were notable breaches of that externall order which God had commaunded to be obserued by them yet were they not therefore straightway no people of God as were the Gentiles God did in deede grieuouslie punish them by warre by famine by pestilence and sundrie other wayes declaring him selfe to be highlie offended at these their transgressions as the Prophetes forewarned them hee would doe but this correction was yet with the Fathers rodde and not with the

shal be thy nurses and great peace large reuenewes for maintenance of learning the benefite of Scholes Colledges houses of noble fouÌ„dations for students two so famous Vniuersities of long time for men of excellent abilitie in all good knowledge all these helpes now almost 30 yeares togither without intermission or interruption besides the former time of king Edward of noble memorie and yet notwithstanding all these is so vnfurnished of sufficient and able godly learned men as that by farre the greater part of it should be in the hands of an insufficient vnlerned ministerie without any maner of coÌ„petent abilitie to expouÌ„d the word of god without diuinitie without scieÌ„ce without art other then such as they were prentises at in a great part without both pietie religion Doeth the word of God allow that men called to the ministerie may take ciuill callings to deale by offices in causes of state iustice or to forsake the charge of particular coÌ„gregations in seruing them in the greatest highest seruice of preaching the gospell to them to rule ouer the churches ministers of a whole Diocesse Is it good order allowable by Gods word to make a nuÌ„ber of ministers at once whereof no one is called or desired to any particular Congregation but must seke sue for places after where to bestow them selues Dispensations faculties for non residents pluralitie of benefices a court of faculties for sundrie like purposes can it be iustified to be good order by the worde of God Doeth the worde of God giue power to any one man vnder heauen to make Ministers alone at his pleasure to graunt licence to preache and to call it in agayne at his owne pleasure to suspende to release to excommunicate to absolue and all as seemeth good to him selfe The same worde alloweth not for good order that Sacramentes should be administred priuatelie by anie much les that it be so by priuate men and least of all by women Nor that they be publiquely ministred without preaching of the word It approueth not such cases of necessitie as enforce these things nor the doctrine of conference of grace by them for the worke wrought To make that inequalitie of the Sacramentes that one should haue power to minister Baptisme that should not haue power to administer the Lordes Supper another power to administer both yet not to preache and another to doe all three being the sacred and hye ordinances of God and yet not to confirme children can not be shewed to be the orders or ordinances of God In like maner can it not be shewed by the worde of God that Chauncelours Commissaries and such Officers of Bishops and Archdeacons should deale with the censures of the Church hauing no maner of lawfull ecclesiasticall callinqe vnto it nor that excommunication is to be for pecuniarie causes and payementes of registres fees or such like But what doe I reckon particulars whereas if the Cannon law be the rule for church-gouernement the abuses must needes be infinite If these disorders bee in the reformed Churches notwithstanding their wante of all outwarde meanes and the heauie displeasure of their Princes and the whote and fierie persecutions wherewith they are pursued whiche yet were a time of tolleration and bearing with thinges amisse if there were any their state were to be helde disordered and to neede reformation for feare of the most iust wrath and indignation of God to fall vpon them But if all these and such like matters be well ordered in them and the same farre otherwyse in our Church notwithstandinge all the meanes and helpes to haue procured the good ordering of them much more conuenientlie then with them is the Declaration to be blamed for exhorting to leaue such a disorder and to receyue that order which is according to God Nowe as the glorie and kingdome of Christ is highly aduaunced and increased where this obedience is giuen to him to order his house accordinge to his will whose it is so on the other parte there must needes be so much wanting of the glorie increase thereof where that obedience is not yeelded to him Which would to God it were otherwise and that the enormities of all sortes did not shewe the want of that glorie of Christes kingdome that would bee if his orders were obeyed nor the exceeding great apostasie falling awaye from God to Atheisme Epicurisme and profanenes and namelie the multitudes of recusantes of late yeres so greatlie increased did not shewe how smallie the glorie of the kingdome of Christ doeth increase amongest vs. As for our peace and other blessinges whereof the Replier speaketh it is in deede to be acknowledged to the high honour of Almightie God that neyther at this present is any Nation vnder heauen so blessed in all respectes nor hath this Lande bin so at any time heretofore The Lorde make vs thankfull for all his ritche mercies bestowed vpon vs and continew with great increases all the prosperitie and happie estate of our Lande people But that he sayeth we are so blessed aboue all other churches euen in this estate of ecclesiasticall gouuernement established soundeth as if he would haue one ecclesiasticall estate to be taken to be the cause of all these blessings Some attribute the cause hereof to the troubles of our neighbours and some to the gratious gouernement of hir excellent Maiestie and the great wisedome of the right Honourable of hir Counsell Diuines as it best agreeth with their profession yet with due honour of all the noble instrumentes of this grace as euerie one hath deserued to the prouident and watchfull care of Almightie God ouer vs in giuing all the good meanes of this our estate which we enioye and many times by extraordinarie fauours discouering the secrete practises of our enimies and working in deede as the Replyer sayeth wonderfully and graciouslie for vs. But no man yet that euer I heard of before this attributed this honour to Archdeacons and Archbishops to Chauncelours and Bishops to Commissaries and Officialls or the rest of that trayne This is a garlande would not become those heades in anie sorte let them weare it to their great honour that haue deserued it Is it for that that they are the Officers which God hath set in his Churche and therefore doeth powre his blessing vppon his owne ordinance It hath bin alreadie shewed what agrement they haue with the worde and from what originall they proceeded If it be sayde notwithstanding they be of mans creation and appointement yet they may bee employed in such affaires as might procure this blessing to the state let it bee considered wherein they haue bin occupied since her Maiesties raigne it will easilie appeare howe farre it is of that they should haue any parte of this honour If there were a commission graunted to examine what hath bin done by these officers and their Courtes for these nine and twentie yeares what good they haue

things that concerne religion that we may liue vnder them a peaceable and quiet life in all pietie and honestie For of such things haue they charge also especiallie Magistrates which are of good Religion For which cause the Kings were commaunded in the law of Moses to haue by them a copye of the lawe and charged to see the same obserued Deut. 17.18 not in one part onely which concerneth the dueties of the seconde table but also of the first All which things whyle Magistrates procure and further by their ciuill power and authoritie blessed are they in so holy and honourable seruice and blessed is the Church that receyueth so exceeding great helpe benefite and comfort by them A litle quarell here is in the next place against the wordes most blessed Wherevnto it is replyed that the Church can not be sayde to be most blessed till it be in heauen But he is to vnderstande that it is not spoken of the Church simply but in some respect Which also he graunteth a little after sayinge him selfe of the primitiue church that it seemed in most blessed estate in some respectes As therefore the Church may be sayde to be in most blessed estate when it is ordered in all thinges according to Gods coÌ„maundement whiche is the greatest blessing it may haue in this lyfe so the Declaration speaketh of the Churches which are blessed in that respect The state of the auncient Church of the Iewes was then in most blessed estate in such respecte when all things in it aunswered the paterne shewed to Moses in the mountayne and the primitiue Church when it was ordered according to the rules of our Sauiour Christ So are the Churches of this age sayde for the same respect to be in most blessed estate From this he returneth againe to his question so often mooued before what vse then there may be of the Christian Magistrate For which he is to be returned agayne in like maner to his former aunswere Which is that th' vse of them is exceeding great in euery sorte and would be yet a great deale more if their godly proceedings were not hindered by misinformations of such who for their place and the trust reposed in them ought both to knowe and declare the will of God to Christian Princes to the furthering of the reformatioÌ„ of such abuses the continuance whereof prouoketh the wrath of God against both the Prince the people Who mainteyning that all is well when in the gouernance of the Church so manie things are amisse and neede most speedy reformation abuse them selues and the Princes whom they ought faithefullie to serue as Azariah and Hananias the Prophetes did Asa King of Juda 2. Chro. 15. 1 Cap. 16 7. Ierem. 1. 2. Ieremie Josiah with sundrie other and so hasten vpoÌ„ them their people the fierie flying vengeance that for such enormities may come so mightily and suddainly that there wil be no turning of it backe nor escaping from it Wherein God be mercifull and spare his sanctuarie that it be not made desolate for the Lordes sake but to returne to the seruice Dan. 9.17 whereby for my parte I may endeuour to procure so great a blessing in maintenance of the trueth of God in the cause of the further reformatioÌ„ needful in the discipline as it hath bin thorowe the goodnes of God made in the doctrine I proceed to answere his next poynt of reply to this argument This replie is an iniurious and a bitter discourse of the difference of the state of the Church in persecution and in peace which he affirmeth to be hir most blessed estate It is set out by opposition of Princes persecuting and protecting the Church as of Pharao and Moses Saul and Dauid Manasses and Ezechias the Turke Sophi and Cham and the Christian Princes in Englande Germanie Scotlande Denmarke c. The end wherof is to charge the Declaration with a grosse and foule absurditie as if it affirmed the Church in times past to haue bene in better state vnder Tyrants and persecutours then vnder godly and vertuous Princes and in this age vnder the heathen then vnder Christian Princes Wherevppon he cryeth out O blinde what should I call it malice no but selfe-willed opinion that to deface the good estate of the church of God wherein we are vnder such a right defendor of the faith defended and shielded from all our enimies in a farre more blessed estate then we deserue will make such an odious comparison as this is But as the olde saying is Itch and ease can no man please If a beame of a Bishoprike had not hindred his sight hee might haue seene more clearely both in many other places and in this that there is no such comparison made as he cauilleth about It is saide in the Declaration that the Church at this day standeth in most blessed estate where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers Whereat although he iestingly demaunde after his maner whether this be in Vtopia or where yet either he must be starke blinde or els hee must needes see that it is meant of the Countries neare vnto vs wherein the Churches are in some respect in most blessed estate Whiche blessednes if he scorne at for the persecution whiche they endure what will he answere to our Sauiour Christ saying Blessed shall ye be when men reuyle you Ma. 5.11.12 persecute you and say all maner of euill against you for my sake falslie Reioyce be glad for great is your reward in heauen For so persecuted they the Prophetes which were before you Further also in regard of the full reformation of the church both in the doctrine and discipline of our Sauiour Christ which the Lorde that is riche in mercie hath for their more aboundant coÌ„fort giuen them to enioy in this their outward troublesome persecuted estate For these and such like respectes declared vpon occasion before in this treatise the Declaration calleth their estate most blessed In reproch whereof he exhorteth the Ministers zealous of the further reformation of our church to be gone into those couÌ„tries if they iudge the estate of theÌ„ to be better then our owne I maruell not if the successours of Amazia would fayne haue the successours of Amos to depart both out of the Court Amos 7.12 and countrey too For then might they more freely abuse whome they would But the duetie of our calling wherevnto almightie God of his great mercie hath called vs whiche is to serue especiallie the church of our own nation people amongest whom we are borne and brought vp whose language is ours by nature with whom we are to haue all thinges common both blessings and punishmentes as the seruaunts of God in Iewrie had will not suffer vs to hearken to his rude motion least we should with Jonas fly from the presence of the Lorde Further as the terrour of God so the loue of our people nation our kinred and acquaintance

done and on th' other part what insufficient Ministers they haue made what godly learned Ministers they haue put to silence and depriued of their benefices and other places of ministerie what ceremonies subscriptions they haue vrged what constitutions and articles they haue set out and sworne men to present what conuocations and scenes they haue kept what faculties and dispensations they haue graunted and taken what censures suspensions excommunications they haue set forth howe manie of what sorte and for what causes they haue cast into prisons howe long and in what prisons and order they haue kept them there what oppressions and extortions haue bin committed what couering and cloakinge of fowle and shamefull matters with a number of such like I doubt not but all men that indifferentlie considered these things would be constrayned to say It is the mercie of the Lorde that wee are not consumed that the enimie hath not entred into the gates of Ierusalem euen for the sinnes of the Prophetes and for the iniquities of the Priestes There are a number no doubt within the lande that feare God vnfeynedlie his Name be praysed for it There are also some faithfull seruauntes of God that kneele before him day and night to be mercifull vnto vs and to continue his gratious fauour towardes vs the chariots and horsemen of Israell in deede There are also a great number of godly straungers that haue left their countries to serue God where they maye bee suffered to serue him as he hath commaunded by whom he hath set vp before all the people of the lande a goodly president and example of that reformation whiche wee ought to proceede forwarde vnto for whose sake the Lorde may bee mercifull to vs till he haue made readie some other place to lodge them in or opened their owne countrey for them to returne vnto agayne But which is principall the Lorde for his owne Names sake and the prayse of his mercie vouchsafeth thus to blesse vs that by his benefites hee might prouoke vs to that further duetie of reformation of the Church and obedience to his worde which he requireth These and such like causes of this our present happie estate might haue bene noted if he would needes inquire into that matter As for that which he alleadgeth to bee the cause of these blessinges is so farre of from being any cause of them as contrariwise it ceaseth not to prouoke the fierie wrath of God to lighten thuÌ„der vpon all the state of the lande and people till hee haue consumed both as being the very roote and cause of the ignorance of God that is in the lande the nurse and cherisher of recusantes and obstinate papistes and other heretiques and in a word of all the great iniquities and abhominations that are committed within the kingdome And thus farre in answere to his reply to the conclusion wherein the Declaration vppon former reasons concluded foure and onely foure ecclesiasticall offices namelie of Pastours Teachers Elders and Deacons to be appointed of God for the ordinarie guydance of particular Churches This conclusion is enlarged by the Declaration with an answere to such as might thinke in such a treatise of the gouernement of the Church the first poynt should be to speake of the Magistrate Which answere is that because the purpose of the writer is to treate of ecclesiasticall gouernement and that ciuill Magistrates are not ecclesiasticall officers but ouerseers set ouer them to mainteyne them in the due executioÌ„ of their charges and to punish them ciuillie if they offende therefore it semed more pertinent to the matter in hande to speake first of ecclesiasticall officers and then of the supreme authoritie of the Soueraigne ouer them all The Replie to this section is the most impertinent and tedious that may be For differing nothing from the Declaration in opinion of any matter here directlie set downe yet standeth he playing in a maner vpon euery worde A man would thinke the second person in charge of soules in a whole diocesse as he reckoneth him selfe to be and hauing it may bee some particular charge Besides if he would needes leaue all to attende vppon his busines yet should haue bent him selfe to handle onely materiall poyntes and that as soundlie pithilie and brieflie as he could that hauing finished it hee might haue returned to his charges agayne that Sathan who goeth about continuallie like a roaring Lyon seeking whome hee may deuoure haue no more aduantage of his absence from his flocke then the worke he hath set him selfe vnto of necessitie might require But to see him thus discourse vpon euerie seconde or thirde worde and to playe and sport him selfe as if he were at great leysure and had as little to doe as one that should playe with a feather may shewe howe easilie men of his coate beare the burden of the Church But howsoeuer his leysure serue if he can not employe it better then in so friuoulous trifles as in great part hee wasteth the time withall I thinke it meete both for mine owne regarde for the Readers not to stande vppon aunswering euery idle discourse but onely that which of all his speache may carie the greatest shewe of obiection to any substantiall poynt of the Declaration For hauing alreadie hitherto at large debated these matters whiche he often returneth vnto as principall things in his replie and stopt as it were the springes and fountaynes of all his treatise at laysure and carefully from the beginning to this place the particuler poyntes litle streames that flowe from them wil be more easilie dammed vp Nowe therefore to come to his replye to this section whereas it is saide by the Declaration as by way of an obiection But while we speake of ecclesiasticall gouernement it may bee thought that we should first treate of the supreme authoritie of Christian Princes and so forth The Replyer after he hath played with the worde whyle discourseth vpon the wordes Ecclesiasticall gouernement Wherein he first answereth for hir Maiestie to the papistes and then sheweth what hee taketh the Supremacie to be which is recognised by statute to be in hir Maiestie Of which poyntes neyther the one nor the other belongeth any thing to the matter in hande For touching the first there is in these wordes of the Declaration no manner of occasion to speake of the papistes except he take it of the words ecclesiasticall gouernement and for the seconde concerning the exposition of a statute it is fitter for a Reader in a house of Court or for Iudges vpon the benche to speake of then for Diuines Another poynt of as little valewe and as vnsutable to the matter of this sentence is that he sayeth the Declaration attributeth amisse ecclesiasticall gouuernement to Elders except it be intended by ecclesiasticall that which any way belongeth to the church By which reckoning he would gather that Wydowes are also church-gouernours and that the Declaration would haue women ecclesiasticall persons and

downe in these wordes By which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernement thereof dependeth not vppon the authoritie of Princes but vpon the ordinaunce of God who hath most mercifullie and wisely so established the same that as with the comfortable ayde of Christian Magistrates it may singularlie flourish and prosper so without it it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuayle For the Church craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes to continue and goe forwarde more peaceably and profitably to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christ but all hir authoritie she receyueth immediatly froÌ„ God The Replyer can not or will not see that which is manifest but denieth this consequence to seeme so to him and here his seas ryse so hye that he sayth it is manifest violent conclusion yea a manifest iniurie both to God and his Church and to all the authoritie of all Christian Princes and most manifest wrong vnto her Maiestie If the lawe of God had not forbidden it that anie matter should be helde certayne in iudgement vnder two or three witnesses and if the testimonie of one man were inough to condemne another it would haue gone hard I see with the authour of the declaratioÌ„ but seeing his worde is to carrie no more credit with it then he can bring sufficient reason for it to make it good let his reason be considered His reason is that it is insinuated that hir Maiestie for clayming supreme authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes claymeth withall that the regiment of the Church dependeth vppon hir authoritie Which if any reasonable man liuing that is not a parciall fauourer or fauourite of the Hierarchie can gather out of these wordes of the Declaration I pleade for it no longer But this he sayeth is aggreeued in the opposition of Gods ordinance to the authoritie of Princes as if Magistracie were not the ordinance of God addinge that neyther Papistes nor Anabaptistes could haue set downe a sharper coÌ„clusion against th' authoritie of Princes then this is Whiche are false alarums and exclamations or accusations as vayne as the curse that is causeles Prou. 26.2 and therefore as Salomon sayth vanishe away in the ayre Which although it haue no proofe nor sense it it yet passing on to the next wordes of the DeclaratioÌ„ Which he sayeth are added to smooth the former hee maketh another loude outcrie This is another great iniurie offered to Christian Princes who by these wordes are thrust not onely out of all authoritie in the Church but eyther out of the Church altogither as no part of it at all or at least a contentions part striuing in the Church for authoritie His proofe is this For what els meane they by these words The Church craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes but that they separate the Christian Prince and the Church If the honourable sworde of iustice committed to soueraigne Princes for protecting the good subiect and punishinge the euill were at the commaundement of such Chapleynes as this Replyer is I see by his often accusations of slaundering and iniuring the Prince without all cause or colour it would leese the honour it ought to haue being made a weapon of iniustice In the lawe of Moses if a man had charged another with any crime Deut. 19.19 if he made not good proofe of his accusation as he would haue done to another by his false witnesse so was it to be done to him whether it were a matter of member or of lyfe If the Replyer feared to bee dealte with according to this rule he would not bee so readie to laye so great crymes to any mans charge vppon no reason But because informers may bee hearde they saye for the Prince and neuer come to question although the accusation be neuer so vniust it seemeth hee emboldeneth him selfe vppon some such like assurance By this occasion hee inquireth who should bee meant by the Church whether the people whiche hee thinketh can not or the foure Tetrarkes as hee calleth them in his scorners speache and this hee taketh and compareth them with popishe priestes who hee sayeth gaue the same power and authoritie vnto Christian Princes that is giuen heere and with better tearmes Wherein if hee looke backe to former tymes or consider well what the papistes esteeme of the othe of the Supremacie and what is done in kingdomes subiect to the Bishop of Roome and compare it with that which the Declaration and all they in whose behalfe it was published doe most willinglie acknowledge by protestation and also by othe to bee the moste due honour of the Soueraigne Magistrate hee shall easelie see howe vniust this charge is as well as are his other There was a purpose I thinke hee will saye when the statute for recognition of hir Maiesties Souueraingtie was made to agnise to the vttermost by that othe all the Regalities rightes and honours due to that high and soueraigne estate Whiche if it were attayned vnto howe can hee charge anie with derogation from the Princes right and iust authoritie that taketh willinglie that othe and acknowledgeth the authoritie there agnized euen as it is expounded by hir Maiesties owne iniunctions by the Articles of the conuocation house and sundrie bookes published with great allowance of the state But to this poynt there is sufficientlie sayde before both in this treatise and in the answere to the preface of his replie He cauilleth here about that the Declaration sayeth All the authoritie which the Church hath is immediatlie of God and mooueth manie friuoulous questions about it But if hee had disallowed it he should haue entred into the handling of it and shewed by sufficient proofe of holy Scripture that the Church holdeth not all hir authoritie immediatly of God but holdeth some part of it mediatlie of Princes as meane Lordes vnder the highest Some offer hee maketh of it alleadginge the authoritie of the godlie and vertuous Kings and Rulers of Jsraell and Iuda which if it be all that he can say in that cause let him vnderstande that as it hath bin in this cause professed on our behalfe by some other so nowe agayne we truely and vnfaynedly professe to acknowledge in Christian Princes all that power and authoritie that the Prophetes doe any where iustifie to haue bin in the Rulers of Gods people at any time I adde yet further that whereas he pretendinge to speake most largelie of this authoritie sayeth Princes haue not the ecclesiasticall Ministers peculiar offices and ecclesiasticall authoritie to execute the actes proper to their ecclesiasticall functions but haue authoritie to ouersee gouerne and direct all ecclesiasticall persons to doe their dueties in all ecclesiasticall causes and haue the highest authoritie that is ciuill in the Church for the orderinge disposinge and authorizinge anie order or constitution ecclesiasticall in indifferent matters Wee acknowledge and professe the same Where if we be nothing short of the largest measure that hee can laye before vs I trust he will hereafter teache his tongue to speake and his penne to write of vs more agreeably to Christian charitie wisedome and modestie then hee hath done in this first booke of his Reply Whiche ending heere with a contrarie conclusion to the Declaration for the order of the treatise a matter little worthie the striuing about I leaue the consideration of it to the Christian Reader vppon such reasons as haue bene debated betweene vs and ende also here the firste part of this my labour FINIS

be said of the church which is the Lords kingdome temple and house this being a matter agreeing to euery societie especiallie hauing a wyse gouernour and the societie being such as may haue nothing done confusedlie disorderly and offensiuelie in it but all with peace order and to edification and whiche is to abide coÌ„tinue for euer But such a societie the Church is For some short time it maybe some small societie may continue in tollerable maner without certaine prescripte lawes to gouerne it yet hardlie can it long so continue without sundrie suche disorders as in the ende must needes ouerthrowe it But a common wealth and a kingdome and that such a one as is spreade ouer all the worlde and to continue to the ende of the same to be like an Inne of Court without written lawes and orders for the gouernement of it for euer can not stande with the wisedome of God with the offices of our Sauiour Christ with the nature of the Church nor with the edificatioÌ„ peace order and perpetuitie of the same Further the whole externall forme of th'administration of the Church consisteth in the kindes and charges of offices vpon whose care and direction the church in such matters is to depende in the things which concerne their lawfull vocation to such places due execution of that belongeth vnto them but all these pointes are particularly set downe in the worde of God in the seueral charges of Ministers of the worde of Elders of Deacons and of the ioint care of Eldershippes and Synodes as is to appeare in the proofe of euery seuerall part hereafter therefore it is to be acknowledged that such an externall forme of Discipline and direction of the Church is appointed of God Besides all this the things which coÌ„cerne the kingdome of Christ wherof such an external forme is not the least the Euangelist Luke writeth that full fortie dayes the Disciples were instructed by our Sauiour after his resurrection 1. Cor. 11.23 1. Cor. 14.37 Mat. 28.20 Actes 1.2 1. Tim. 6.14 Matt. 18.15.16.17 Actes 11.30 euen as Moses had bene taught of God in the mountaine concerninge the like For which respect in diuers places of the newe Testament sundrie principall partes of the Discipline and externall order of the Church are saide to haue bin deliuered of the Lorde and are called preceptes and commaundements yea and sometimes commaundements of the Lorde Finallie the same externall order of the Church in offices for doctrine conuersation and for the poore was setled by the Apostle in all churches where he came and in some before he had conferred with any of the other Apostles and had the Gospell only by reuelation of the Sonne of God It is deliuered also by him for a generall doctrine to all Churches in the 12. chapter to the Romanes and the 1. to Tim. with most earnest charge to haue it kept without fault till the glorious comming of Christ It was likewise established by the rest of the Apostles in all places where they came as appeareth by the speciall and expresse mention of Ministers of the worde Elders Deacons for these offices in the due execution whereof the whole Discipline consisteth were established in the Churches of a 15.4.16.4.6.6 Ierusalem of b Act. 13.1.14.23 Antioche of c Phil. 1.1 Licaonia and d Philippi e Act. 20.17 1. Tim. 3. Ephesus f Rom. 12.6 7.8 Rome g 1. Cor. 5.16.1.2 Corinth h Col. 1.7.2.5 Colossi i Thes 1.5.12.10 ch 2.3.14 Thessalonica k 1. Tim. 1.5 Candie and all the Churches of the dispersed strauÌ„gers in l 1. Tit. 5.1.2.3 Pontus Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bythinia and generallie in all the churches of the m He. 13.17 Iac. 1.1.5.14 1 Co. 16.1.2 Hebrewes Whiche consent of the Apostles in ordering the churches which they gathered togither by one vniforme externall order of Administration in Ministers of the Worde Elders and Deacons declareth that they receyued the same from the Lord and by his appointement deliuered it to the Churches Thus at the first the churches were setled n Colos 2 5 Mat. 16.19.18.17.18.19.20 a goodly thing to behold all after one and the same order by the Apostles accordinge to that our Sauiour had taught them concerning this matter the commission they were charged with at his going vp from them into heauen which was to make disciples and to teach them to keepe all things that he had commaunded them In the time next succeding the Apostles the same order in a great part continued as may appeare by many notable testimonies in Jgnatius not onely mentioning and saluting in all his Epistles often times the Ministers of the worde by the name of Bishops Elders and Deacons but also earnestly exhorting to the continuance and respect of them as a most necessarie order appointed for the preseruation of Gods Church Be subiect sayeth he to the Bishop meaning the Pastour as appeareth by the particular respect he is said to haue to that church as to the Lorde for he watcheth for your soules as one that is to giue his account thereof to God c. Be subiect also sayeth he to th'Eldership as the Apostles of Jesus Christ and please the Deacons A litle after he sayth The Bishop resembleth God vnto theÌ„ and the Elders the assistance of God and colledge or bande of the Apostles of Christ a comparison in sundrie other places vsed by him without these an elect Church a holy assemblie a Sinagogue of Saints is not c. In the same Epi. He that is within the Church is cleane therefore obeyeth he the Bishop and the Elders but he that is without doeth any thing without Bishoppe without Elders and Deacons such an one is vncleane for what is the Bishop but the follower of Christ what is the Presbiterie or Eldership but a holy assemblie Councellours and assistantes of the Bishops what are the Deacons but followers of the Aungelles c. He therefore that disobeyeth these is surelie an Atheist and vngodlie despising Christ and setting at nought his ordinance In his Epistle to the saintes at Tharsus vsing the same exhortation I loue them saieth he as mine owne soule that obserue this good order and the Lord be with them for euer To the Ephesians he saieth The Presbyterie is to the Bishop as the string is to the Harpe as no doubt their holy concorde is acceptable to God like the song of the golden harpes mentioned in the Reuelation Apoc. 5. Justinus maketh mention of such an order of lethargie vsed by the Christians in their holy ecclesiasticall assemblies as may seeme to haue bin as there was good cause it should the paterne of the best reformed Churches of this age for th' order of publique prayer vsed amongst them Tertullianus testimonie in his excellent Apologie of Christians is worthie to be written with a pen of gold in pretious marble which is that certaine approued Elders were set

ouer their Churches ecclesiasticall assemblies who had obtayned that honor not by mony but by good testimonie For no matter of God is obtayned with vs by money Many and notable witnesses are in Cyprian of the ministerie and their equall power and dignitie and of so great necessitie of executing the censures and discipline of the Church as that feare of death ought not to hinder it The presumption of man in deede began betimes by degrees to degenerate from this order of Discipline so as the Elders who were men chosen out from the rest of the people to assiste the Ministers of the word in the execution of the Discipline of the Church began to fayle whereof Ambrose complayned in his time Ambros in 2. Tim. 5. So it came to passe that some of the Ministers of the worde not by the ordinance of God whereby they were all equall but as Ierome noteth by custome and humane disposition began to be greater then other Ministers Iero. in epi. ad Tit. so as they onely were called Bishops which name is giuen to all the Elders of the church of Ephesus and tooke vpon them firste all the care of the Church then of other Ministers also and that by degrees Act. 20.28 of so large circuites as for their helpe and to serue for steppes to rayse them selues by other officers were appointed vnderneath them till at last it grewe to this perfect image of the beast spoken of in the Reuelation that is of the Romane Empire that of long time hath tyrannised the Church of God Reue. 13.14 euer to this age But in this age of the regeneratioÌ„ of the gospell the Churches haue openlie and plainlie discouered these abuses and declared both their iudgementes what they iudge and beleeue touching the kindes of the ministeries offices ordayned of God to be in the Church and their indeuour desire to returne to the same former order appointed by our Sauiour Christ and first deliuered to the Churches by his holie Apostles In the latter coÌ„fession of the churches of Heluetia wherunto besides the HeluetiaÌ„s that is the churches of Zurich Bearne Shaphonse Sangall Rhetia Millynse Bienna there subscribed also the Churches of Geneua and of Sauoye Polelande Hungarie and Scotlande after a declaration of the names of the Ministerie that are mentioned in the holy scriptures it is thus written But moreouer in the tymes which followed manie more names of Ministers of the Church were brought in for some were ordayned Patriarkes other Archbishops others Suffragans Metropolitanes also and Archepriestes or Arch-presbyters also Subdeacons Acolythes Exorcistes Singers porters and I knowe not who els as Cardinalles Prouostes Priors Fathers and orders greater and lesse But of all these we are nothinge carefull what they were in times past or nowe are the doctrine of the Apostles concerning Ministers suffiseth vs. And a little after in the same confession one and equall power or office was giuen to all the Ministers of the Church Surelie at the beginning the Bishops gouerned the Church by their common labour none preferred him selfe before other or vsurped to him selfe larger power or dominion ouer Bishops for they were mindefull of the Lords wordes Hee that will be first amongst you let him be your seruaunt and so forth with confirmation of this equalitie amongest the Ministers of the Church shewing this to haue bene so amongst the Apostles by Cyprian and Jeromes testimonie affirminge that the Bishoppes are greater then other Ministers more by custome then by the ordinance of God and that they ought to rule the Church togither they adde these wordes this writeth Ierome Therefore say they no man can lawfullie forbid vs to returne backe agayne to the auncient ordinance of the Church of God Artic. 29. and to receyue that rather then a humane custome The Churches of France write yet more directlie to this purpose in their coÌ„fession saying We beleeue the true Church ought to be gouerned by that pollicie and discipline which our Lorde Iesus Christ hath ordayned namely so that there be in that Pastours Elders and Deacons that the purenes of doctrine may be retayned vices may be suppressed the poore and other in miserie may be prouided for and that holie assemblies may be helde for the edification both of small and great In like maner write the Churches of the lowe CouÌ„tries Artic. 30. We beleeue say they that this true Church ought to be ruled and gouerned by that spirituall pollicie which god him selfe hath taught vs by his worde so as there be in it Pastours and Ministers who may purely preache and administer the Sacramentes Also that there be Elders and Deacons who may make the Seniorie of that Church that by these as meanes true Religion may be preserued true doctrine may be retayned euery-where and spead abroade c. as followeth in the same place of the vse of this order Wherein it is verie worthie the obseruation that these Churches wherein there are an infinite number of godly learned men and many for their iust desertes famous reuerend and honourable in all the Church of Christ and the same being in persecution and therefore seeking more carefullie to please God in such a coÌ„fession as they declare their faith in haue thought it a necessarie Article to set downe this point of the pollicie or discipline of the Church and that in declaring of it they saye not what they suppose but what they beleeue vsing the same worde which they doe vse in the articles of fayth doctrine Further also it is to be marked that they professe they beleue the Church ought to be gouerned by that policie and Discipline which our Lorde Iesus Christ hath ordayned and God him selfe hath taught vs by his worde plainlie affirming that there is a certayne forme of policie to gouerne the church by and that the same is ordeyned of our Sauiour Christ and further that it is declared in the worde of God And last of all that they declare that policie or discipline which GOD hath taught vs in his worde to be this in effect That there bee Ministers of the worde Elders and Deacons by whom as by the meanes which God hath ordeyned holy doctrine and honest life may be preserued in the Church and the poore relieued The same is likewise affirmed by the Church of Scotlande as appeareth in their treatise of the Discipline of the Church Vpon all which proofes and testimonies I conclude with the declaration That God hath giuen to the church which is the house of the liuing God a certayne order for the direction of it in all outward matters that belong to the good gouuernement of the same Whereof if they shall yet doubt whome it most importeth the Chureh to be persuaded of it it is to bee sued for by continuall supplications and prayers to God and them that they would heare what we haue to say further on Gods behalfe in these causes and to

in the beginning and it renowmed for a faithfull Citie Esai 1.25.26 Thus much may suffise to haue sayde to this Section of his Replye For I leaue his iestes and scoffes to him selfe to consider of with remembrance that the Apostle sayeth These are thinges not seemelie and reckoneth this pleasaunt humour amongst a number of other things whereof all professours of the Gospell and much more the Preachers of it shoulde bee ashamed Ephe. 5.4 The Declaration groundinge it selfe vppon the former sentences as pillers of rocke that can not bee shaken the firste that the Churche is the house of the liuinge GOD the seconde That therefore GOD hath appointed a certaine order for the gouuernement of it and last of all that both these beeing so it must needes bee that this order is taught in the holy Scriptures beginneth out of the same to shewe and declare what that order is Wherein the firste pointe whiche is made the next Section is that our Sauiour IESVS Christ hath ordained an holy Ministerie of men to the building vppe of the Church whiche is his body in vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of GOD. Which is confirmed by two places of Scripture The fourth to the Ephesians and the 12. chapter of the former Epistle vnto the Corinthians The Replyer to the firste of these places taketh this exception that it is impertinentlie alleadged and that it toucheth not the question in hande whereof hee rendreth his reason for that the thinge spoken of in that place is diuerse altogither from the matter to bee proued because the proofe as hee supposeth is to bee made of orders prescribed and sett forth concerninge ecclesiasticall gouuernement for the Churche to bee directed by in all thinges and the matter whiche the Apostle speaketh of is of giftes and functions the ende whereof is referred to vnitie in doctrine of faith and to holy and honest conuersation of lyfe not to the externall orders of the Churches Ecclesiasticall gouernement This is the effecte of his Replie to this point Wherein hee hath fayled in makinge diuerse those thinges that are of great agreement togither For the purpose pretended is to shewe what that order is that the holy Scriptures declare our Sauiour Christe to haue appointed for the guydance of his Church Nowe to performe this there is proofe made of all the Church offices of publique charge that are appointed of our Sauiour Christ for the directing of his people Whiche proofe if it bee sufficient as it is to shewe that the Ministerie of those that are appointed for the preachinge of the worde both Pastours and Teachers and also of other seruinge for other necessarie vses that is both of Elders ordayned and appointed for the care of honest and godlie lyfe and manners and of Deacons instituted for the necessitie and reliefe of the poore and needie is appointed to bee in the Church then is all the pollicie and the Discipline of the Church sufficientlie proued For this being the ordinance of our Sauiour Christ as it is proued by these places that there should be Pastours Teachers Elders or Gouernors and Deacons in the Churche the whole Discipline of the Church standing in nothing els but the due calling of them to such charge and the execution of such dueties after they be called as belong therevnto it is euident that the whole order which concerneth the externall and outwarde guyding of the Church is hereby plainlie shewed what it is and that it is ordayned by the Lorde Where the question were of a king gone to a farre countrey whether he had left anie certayne forme of policie for the regiment of his kingdome in his absence what playner proofe could be made that hee had lefte certayne order for their gouernement in his absence then if it could be shewed by authentike and sufficient recordes vnder his hande and great seale that hee had appointed Magistrates for the mannaging of state causes and other for due execution of iustice amongst his people But this doeth the Declaration in the proofes alleadged For the question being whether our Sauiour Christ haue set anie certayne order for the guyding and directing of his Church till his coÌ„ming againe the Declaration answereth that he hath because he hath ordayned Ministers of the word Pastours and Teachers for procuring the aduancement of the faith of the Church Elders for the censure of their conuersation and life and Deacons for the comfort of the poore and afflicted Therefore I take it this allegation is most pertinent and fitteth so neare the matter as the Replier can not by this pretence nor by anie other remoue it But the cause of this errour of his to take that to be from the matter that is so neare vnto it seemeth to bee the abusing of him selfe in th'ambiguitie of the word orders So as where the Declaration vndertaketh to shewe a certayne order to be left by our Sauiour Christ for th'administring of all ecclesiasticall matters the Replyer belike looketh here should be shewed some orders for things indifferent For this place sayeth he referreth all to vnitie in doctrine of faith to holy conuersation of life and not to th' externall orders of the Churches ecclesiasticall gouernement Whereby he sheweth that he looked not to heare proofe of anie matters that are referred to faith or life but to other externall orders and what can they be but of things indifferent Whiche yet that they may remayne indifferent could haue no order appointed by our Sauiour Christ for then should they bee no more indifferent the commaundement of our Sauior binding to a necessarie obedience to doe that which he should command so as this exception can not serue For what orders may more clearely proue our Sauiour Christe to haue taken order for the gouerning of his Church in all ecclesiasticall matters then they which are referred to doctrine and maners Is there anie matter ecclesiasticall that is not referred to one of these And if this place shewe th' order he hath set for all things referred either to faith of doctrine or conuersation of life surely it proueth a certen order for all ecclesiasticall matters Which if the Replyer will denie to followe yet is it to be remembred that he plainlie confesseth here that the place alleadged is referred to matters of vnitie in doctrine of fayth and to holy conuersation of life Whereof whosoeuer he denie it I doubt not but euery indifferent and aduised Reader will easilie discerne that hereby he hath graunted the whole cause except he shew some ecclesiasticall matter that is not referred to one of these Another shift he hath but it is such as he dareth not trust vnto him selfe and yet seemeth to point other to vse it if they lift Whiche is that he sayeth th'Apostle there speaketh of giftes and functions meaning as I thinke coÌ„struing his meaning out of other places and to his best aduantage that this place coÌ„cerneth not anie kindes of offices or charges but of

and in the 12. to the Rom But he conteyneth not Elders vnder Bishops for the reason alleadged therfore vnder Deacons And to make all playne in the 12. to the Rom. the Apostle conteyning all the functions vnder Prophets Deacons diuideth Prophets into exhorters teachers and Deacons into Elders distributers expreslie noting when the name of Deacon is opposed to another name coÌ„teyning the Ministers of the word and is taken generally for all the offices not dealing with the Ministery of the word that th'elders are coÌ„teyned vnder this name Furthermore in the 5. cha of this epist he maketh mention of Elders that haue ouersight ouer the coÌ„gregation both in things that concerne the worde and also of other thinges besides the worde whiche must needes bee of conuersation and lyfe there being nothing but these two doctrine and life whereof generall direction and care should bee taken Being then expreslie named by the Apostle in the aforesaide 5. Chapter as one kinde of publike charge in the Church it can not be that the Apostle forgot or pretermitted this kinde in the third going before where he giueth rules for the qualifications requisite in euery one that should be called to publique charge in the Church But in the name of Bishopps they can not be vnderstoode for the propertie of teaching required in them which is not so in the Elders as it is in the 5. chapter therefore they are comprehended vnder the general name of Deacons Howsoeuer it be yet can it not be denied that Elders are named in the 5. chap. as a kinde of publike charge in the Church Nowe I adde that the instructions whiche the Apostle had giuen to Timothy concerning the ministerie of the worde both Pastours and Teachers vnder the name of Bishops and concerning Elders and Deacons partly vnder the name of Deacon common to them both particularly by the name of Elder touching such as are so speciallie called are perpetuall and to be followed kept without default in any part to the glorious comming againe of Christ to iudgement For proofe whereof I rehearse the very wordes of the Apostle I charge thee in the sight of God who quickeneth all things 1. Tim. 6.13.14.15.16 before Iesus Christ which vnder Pontius Pilate professed a worthie profession That thou keepe these commaundements without spot and vnrebukeable vntill the appearing of our Lord JESVS Christ. Which in due time he shall shewe that is blessed and Prince onely the King of Kings and Lord of Lordes who onely hath immortalitie and dwelleth in the light that none can attaine vnto whom neuer man sawe vnto whom be honor and power euerlasting Amen I am not ignorant what exceptions are taken to this place but the answere to them cleareth all such doubtes So as I doubt not but the indifferent Reader consideringe the reasons on all partes will finde that this so earnest charge and obtestation is to be extended to all the pointes of that Epistle Especiallie concerning the ordering of the Church For whiche ende as the Apostle plainlie declareth that he wrote it so hauing finished his instructions concerning that matter sealeth them vp with such a seale as declareth that hee whiche shall offende against them shall sinne against the coÌ„maundement of the Lord of life against the example of the lord Iesus both whose vengeance punishment he is to feare at the glorious coÌ„ming of the lord againe to iudgement And again if any man for the duetiful keeping of those coÌ„mandementes shall suffer yea though it be to death he is to be assured to receyue his life againe of the CommauÌ„der of these things who quickeneth the dead and following the example of that worthie profession made by our Sauiour Christ is to receyue immortalitie and honour for euer at his glorious appearinge which shal be as certainlie performed as he in whose name these things are denounced and promised is the blessed and onely Prince King of Kings Lorde of Lordes onely immortall to whom belongeth honour and strength euerlasting Amen Thus the perpetuitie of these offices is proued by these reasons and authorities I would to God the necessarie perpetuall vse of them were not also manifest by the wofull and lamentable experience of such Churches as doe want them according as their wantes are eyther of all or of some in part or altogither Of the ignorance of the people in things concerning godlines and religion what other cause can be assigned it but that they wante godly learned Ministers of the worde amongst them Teachers to instruct them in sounde holy doctrine and Pastours to exhort them according to it If it be life euerlasting to knowe the onely true God Iohn 17.3 whoÌ„ he hath sent Christ IESVS and if the wante of the knowledge of God be damnable as it is sayde That the seruaunt not knowing his Maisters will Luke 12. and therefore not dooing it shal be beaten and againe That the Lord when he shal come with his mightie Angells in flaming fire shall punishe those who haue not knowen God surelie then the meanes whiche God who would haue all men saued and come to the knowledge of the trueth hath appointed for that purpose 1. Tim. 2.4 is moste needefull to continue both for the honour of GOD and the saluation of the people Whiche meanes being the offices of Pastours and Teachers nothing can be more necessarie then th'establishing of them in all places and continuing of the same successiuelie to the ende of the worlde The same is to be saide of th' other offices All manner of offences are committed and remayne without redresse at the least without redresse sufficient and such as God hath appointed to the infinite dishonour of God and disedification of the Church where there are not Elders nor Ouerseers that in conscience of the calling and ordinance of God may looke vnto it In like manner the poore can not by anie neuer so wise and politicke lawes of men be prouided for where the Deacons Fathers Tutours of the poore appointed of God in conscience of his commaundement and their most bounden duetie to him attende not vpon the poore Whiche apparauntlie testifieth the necessarie and perpetuall vse of them Therefore to conclude this point I saye th' ignorance the offences in euerie sorte most lamentable to beholde Atheisme profanenes securitie blasphemie horrible othes not farre blasphemie neglect yea contempt of the Sabboth day the dishonour of all to whom honour is due the murders adulteries robberies periuries the swarmes of rogues and beggers their dying in the fieldes vnder hedges and in Townes and Cities at the dores crye with a loude voyce vnto God and all lawfull authoritie vnder him that for wante of the preachinge of the worde they perishe for lacke of it they dye in their ignorance and diuers sinnes for default of the meanes that should bring them to the knowledge of God and to repentance default I saye both of the

enioye the kingdome nor to beare ciuill offices but the causes of God and the causes of the King had their seuerall triall officers and Iudges But this a Bishop or Archbishop euen by his ordination is not onely not bounde vnto but of the contrarie being ordayned to exercise the office of a Bishoppe according to the worde of God and the ordinances of this Realme is to meddle with ciuill iustice For the worde of God not speaking any one worde of such an office and the ordinances of the Realme laying vpon them offices charges in ciuill affaires they intermedle with all causes by reason of their office I might note many other repugnances in-their offices with the lawfull charges of Pastours and Teachers as their immoderate power in dealing with all ecclesiasticall causes of gouernement alone in ordayning Ministers giuing and calling in licences censuring suspending excoÌ„municating absoluing such like But these reasons may suffice to shew that otherwise then the Replyer mainteyneth Bishoppes and Archbishops such as he speaketh of are not nor can not in any iust and true account be reckoned Pastours Teachers Such in deede they may haue bin and were firste ordayned to be and therefore ought to haue continued in that calling But accepting of th' offices of Bishops and Archbishops wherin there are so many things as haue bin shewed repugnant to the functions of Pastours and Teachers they can not in any sorte be esteemed trew Pastours and Teachers of the church such as our Sauiour appointed for the worke of the Ministerie but are a thing degenerate and growen out of kinde a humane creature and an institution and ordinance of Kings and Princes Thus much may suffice to shewe that Bishops and Archbi hops are not Pastours and Teachers Whereby it is playne to be no consequence whiche the Replier maketh for them in this place that is because there were Pastors and Teachers in the primitiue Church that therefore there were Bishops and Archbishops also in that time Hee addeth they are such as haue bene Deacons too which being admitted it followeth not because they haue bin Deacons and nowe are Bishops or Archbishops that therefore Bishops and Archbishops were in the primitiue Church But I denie that euer they were right and lawfull Deacons For a Deacon is an ecclesiasticall officer attending the poore of the Church whose Deacon he is The trueth of this is most euident by the Deacons of Ierusalem of whose institution we reade in the sixt of the Actes where the Apostles discharging them selues of this care and seruice determined and bouÌ„ded their office of Apostleship for euer after within the boundes of preachinge and prayers and the Deacons office in that which they discharge them selues of that is in the attendance of the poore Which appeareth also by the 12. to the Romanes where their office is limited in like maner Nowe the Deaconshippe hee speaketh of which they haue had is no such matter but a meere humane institution a degree to priesthoode a power to baptise and reade the publique Litargie without power to minister the Lordes Supper or to preach by vertue of that calling and is nothing like the ordinance of GOD for the reliefe of the poore Therefore euen that also is not trew whiche the Replier saieth that they haue bin Deacons too In deede they haue come by the Deacons bagge and got into their hands that which by th'ordinance of God and the auncient commons of the Church should be distributed by the Deacons to the comfort of the poore Which the Christian Magistrate is in all duetie to God to require at their handes to restore to the former right vse againe as he is other partes of their liuings and namelie that which ought to be the liuing of the Pastors Teachers which attende vpon the seruice of the people in teaching and instructing them in true religion whose liutngs being taken away and cast into those seas would be restored againe that the people giuing their goods to be taught in the knowledge of God not able to giue any more do not perishe for wante of teaching but may receyue the fruite of this their liberalitie But this because I haue not further occasioÌ„ in this place I forbeare to debate at large onely by occasion of their Deaconshippe I haue in a word noted their iust dealing as with the poore and the Deacons so also with the Pastors and Teachers with all the people of God Whereby appeareth that howsoeuer they are transformed now are neither Pastours Teachers Elders nor Deacons yet sauing the worke and labour of these callings in preaching vnto the people and watching ouer them with the Lordes watche and seruing the necessities of the poore they haue wholy deuoured them all All the power authoritie and liuing both of Pastours Teachers and Deacons yea and the treasure of the poore also being possessed and enioyed by them Thus haue I answered his two reasons alleadged to proue Bishops and Archbishops to haue bin in the primitiue Church In this place affirming them to be in their office and kinde of ministerie Pastours and Teachers yet saith he sith he is the ordainer or ordinarie of them and ouerseer both of them the people he is in dignitie of another office and kinde of ministerie different from them For answere wherevnto he is to vnderstande that the worde of God giueth not this authoritie to a Bishop to be ouerseer of the people and also of their Pastours and Teachers nor to any one man bearing ecclesiasticall office to be the ordainer or the ordinarie as he speaketh of the Ministers of the worde As touching the firste of ouersight the worde Ouerseer or as we call it Bishop Actes 20. is vsed diuers times in the Scriptures but alwayes in regard of the people Phil. 1.1 and of the Church and at no time of other Ministers of the worde If it be otherwise let him shewe where a Bishop or Ouerseer is named in respect of other Pastours and Teachers True it is that Pastours Teachers may offende through the corruption of nature that is in all men therfore are not exempted and freed by the worde of God neither froÌ„ ouersight nor punishment but are liable to all maner of censures of the church as any other of the congregatioÌ„ to the ciuil punishments of the lawes But their ouerseers in such cases are the ciuil Magistrat who is to see that they doe their duties or to enforce them to it by ciuill punishments their cause being firste duely heard tried and iudged Further the Eldership of that church whervpon they attende and all the greater CoÌ„ferences and Synodes wherevnto by good order agreed in the churhc they are made subiect haue the ouersight of them power to admonish censure with ecclesiasticall censures of deposition from their ministerie or of suspension and excommunication as their offence may deserue So as no man in the Churche nor in the

bee indifferent Judges For whatsoeuer shall please the ciuill Magistrate or them selues to call or count indifferent it muste bee so holden of all men without any further inquirie But of the supreme authoritie of Christian Princes in ecclesiasticall causes howe farre it extendeth by the worde of God we shall haue better occasion to intreate hereafter when we haue described the ecclesiasticall state Here he first standeth vppon the worde others with much tryfling and toying seeking who these others may be which in generall hee may playnely perceyue by the declaration of their opinion that is that those others are such as holde the opinion there declared Next he examineth these wordes with more colour of reason then these wordes of indifferent matters Whereof he would enforce the Declaration to affirme such others to leaue all indifferent matters to the onely disposition of Princes at their pleasure Wherevnto hee replyeth that no good Prince doeth without aduyse of their couÌ„sell determine of matters notwithstanding he affirmeth the authoritie and lyfe of such decrees to lye onely in the Princes disposition For Salomon him selfe had his counsell yet sheweth he not by anie sufficient authoritie or reason that Salomon or anie of the godly and vertuous Kings of Iuda determined by aduyse of their counsell and commaunded anie such matters of the Ministers apparell or any order gouernement ryte or ceremonie in the Church or what the Replyer may thinke to bee most indifferent in that kinde Whiche had bin very fitte for him to haue done the matter being of no small importance which he also setteth out to the vttermost saying That it is this day a great question and toucheth the matter to the quicke what the authoritie of Christian Princes is in the disposition of indifferent matters Why then did not he if hee would gage thus deepe into this vessell as to affirme all indifferent things to be as touching power and authoritie meerlie at the disposition of the Prince alleadge vs some authoritie of the Prophetes or Apostles or some auncient President and example of Dauid or Salomon or some other of the godly zealous Princes and Kings of Iuda But it was not because he would like a graue and sounde Diuine resolue his Reader of this poynt but for that as he sayeth it toucheth the quicke and might serue him to bring some man to question of his life as denying the Supremacie that he vrgeth so much this matter Which yet as hir Maiestie hath not at any time so pursued so is it to be hoped hir gracious disposition to religion and iustice will not suffer hir hereafter to pursue how clamorouslie soeuer such aduocates of iniustice shall crye out that it toucheth the supremacie For so long as it is acknowledged with all duetifull and godlie reuerence of her Maiesties Soueraigne authoritie that the same power belongeth to hir highnes Royall state Crowne and dignitie that at this time any soueraigne Prince vpon the earth doeth lawfullie exercise ouer his people or any of the Kings of Iuda euer enioyed in their time by the word of God although it bee denied that that fulnes of power which the Pope most vnlawfully vsurped in things eyther contrarie to the coÌ„maundements of Amightie God or peculiar to our Sauiour Christ can bee lawfullie chalenged by any Christian Prince Religion and Iustice will aunswere in such case that this is no more Luke 20.25 then as wee are taught in the Gospell Giue to God that which is Gods and to Caesar that which is due to Caesar The Replyer here rayseth great expectation in his reader to looke for some resolution by the Declaration concerning this question what the power of the soueraigne Magistrate is in matters indifferent affirming this case to be moued by the Declaration and therefore to haue bin thorowlie aunswered being so important which is nothing so For the Declaration nameth no such case nor question as to enter into the debating of that matter whiche would bee heere wholy out of place but by the way and vpon such occasion as hath bene declared maketh mention of some vn-indifferent mens opinions concerning the power of Princes in indifferent matters A vsuall thing in all good writers and allowed by all men of sounde reason and iudgement by occasion to touche a matter without being bounde thereby to enter into the discourse of it But if he were so desirous to haue this matter treated of why did not he take this occasion to shewe vs by the word of god what the power of christian Princes is in such cases and to prooue by sufficient and strong authorities and other reasons that the ordinarie guyding of the Churche in matters indifferent as well as in all other is not lefte of our Sauiour Christe to ecclesiasticall officers that is neyther to the particular assemblie of Elders for a particular Church nor for more to a more generall nor for the Church of a nation to a lawfull Nationall Synode He should haue shewed vs by like proofe that the Christian soueraigne Magistrate receyueth increase of ciuill power ouer the Church by reason of his Christian profession and fayth Then should hee haue prooued that if anie of the Princes whiche are Heathen were by the mightie worke of GOD conuerted to the obedience of the faith of Christ hee should not onely thereby stande charged to honour God with the lawfull and holy vse of that ciuill power whiche hee had before his conuersion applying it nowe to the maintenance of Gods true seruice and seruauntes protecting and comforting them in well doing as farre as his ciuill power and authoritie may doe it and enforcinge by the same power all men to that which by the same holy religion is duetifull for them to doe as all other men are in like case to vse their giftes of vnderstandinge knowledge counsell wisedome power and authoritie or what soeuer when they haue found fauour of GOD to bee conuerted to the precious faith of our Sauiour Christ but that togither with the fayth hee receyueth besides the charge of the holy vse of the power whiche hee had whyle hee was yet in his paganisme a further increase of power whereby hee may in matters appertayninge to Religion appoynte and ordayne of all thinges indifferent so as the assemblies of Elders and Synodes Prouinciall and Nationall are to leese that authoritie in such cases before exercised by them and to render it vppe to that power as of right and duetie belonging to it But leauing the proofe of all or any of these poyntes hee complayneth that by any occasion this matter was once mentioned by the Declaration except it had bin thoroughlie debated yet least he should leese all his labour in sifting and winnowing like wheate these wordes of the Declaration hee laboureth to gayne some allowance from it of this poynt Which is that indifferent matters are to bee reserued onely to the disposition of Princes which he would enforce in this maner The Declaration as hath

an vnconsecrate palle that can sanctifie a man but that protestant Archbishops may bee by their own faulte through the iudgement of God as wel heires to these disgraces as to the graces they succeede them in Hauing made a doubt that ambition should haue bin the reason of the order of the DeclaratioÌ„ he increaseth it by this that the Ministers which seeke a further reformatioÌ„ of our church can not abyde these names of grace of honor of lords Whiche were a iust reprofe if they did either in deed or word take that vppon them which they dislike in other but the order of the declaration in speaking first of ecclesiasticall officers then of the ciuill Magistrate is farre from any colour of that suspitioÌ„ As for not abyding as he speaketh of these names no man is so ignorant but knoweth these termes to be lawful greater then these too if they be lawfully vsed as when they are giuen to those of the ciuill state according to their degree But for ecclesiastical persons which are not greater then Apostles as none are our Sauiour Christ hath expreslie forbidden that it should be so with them saying That Princes are called gracious lords but it shall not be so with you Luk. 22.25 but he that wil be greatest amongst you let him be your seruant Whereby he teacheth that the greatnes of a Minister standeth not in the vsurpinge of Princelie titles but in his greatest laboures and seruices of God and of his people Which thing the Apostle Paul well vnderstoode when as arguing this greatnes hee sayeth In labours more aboundant in perill often and so forth 2 Cor. 11.23 26. Therefore by the rule of our Sauiour Christ the ministerie most to be esteemed is that which preacheth most diligently which laboureth most in the work of the gospell whiche howsoeuer men haue deuysed to call it the inferiour ministerie the idle ambitious prelacy the superiour yet by the rule of our Sauiour the honorable Ministerie is that whiche is painfull in preaching th' other which embraceth this present worlde and abandoneth the preaching of the worde is an inferiour base degenerate ministerie as litle regarded with our Sauior Christ as it is highlie esteemed with men euen as it is saide That which is high and glorious before men Luke 16.15 is abhominable vnto God The rest of this section concerning that Kings Queenes and Emperours must backare and come after the ministerie is a matter that hath bin founde in some of the graces of the Hierarchy examples Thomas Becket the proude Archbishop of Canturburie and in his holines most vnworthilie so called next aboue them but neuer any shadowe of it in any faythfull Minister and Preacher of Gods worde Nowe followeth to aunswere his replie to the reason of the Declaration why to treate first of the Magistrates power in a treatise of ecclesiasticall gouernement is neyther needfull nor agreeable to good order Which reason is because the church hath stoode in the primitiue age of it without them It doeth so at this day in some places and may doe so hereafter wherevppon it is concluded that the regiment of it dependeth not vpon Princes authoritie but vpon the ordinance of God and consequentlie that in such a treatise it should not be needfull to treate first of them The Replyers first quarell at this is that the reason is not playne because it is not in forme For aunswere wherevnto he is to vnderstande that hee shall seldome find in any good Writer a Sillogisme or reason in his full parts and forme layde out according to the exact rules of logike The cause whereof is that the writer supposeth his Reader of so much vnderstanding that if any one part be wantinge hee may easilie be able to supplie it out of the rest When children are first taught to reade they are holpen with a fescue which is after taken from them when they are growen more perfect So in Logike for the helpe of childreÌ„ rude and ignorant euerie part is layde out at full and in his order when they are growen to vnderstanding it is presumed they are able if any part be misplaced as it is in the best writers more oft then otherwise or wanting by themselues to discerne it and put it in such order as it ought to be in But because he would haue it so thus is the reason in his perfect forme Jt is neyther needfull nor agreeable to good order to treate first in a treatise of the gouernemeÌ„t of the Church of that power without helpe whereof the Church hath bin gouerned in times past is gouerned at this present in diuers places and many bee so hereafter But the power of soueraigne Princes is such Therefore it is neyther needfull nor agreeable to good order in a treatise of Church-gouernement first to treate of their power in the Church Another quarrell is that the question is not betweene the Church and Princes whether were first but betweene ecclesiasticall officers which he in his play-stile calleth Tetrarkes Princes and so not betweene the whole a part but betwene one part and another And then sayeth he if in an anatomie a man would first treate of the head and after of other partes or in description of a house speake firste of the roofe or that which was buylded last he might orderly doe so Wherein it appeareth a man had neede firste to haue reade and expounded the Declaration to him if his sense be no readier to conceyue that which is written and so plainlie layde before him For the reason of the Declaration being such as hath bin shewed what an impertinent sense hath he deuised making the reason so as that for the first sentence of it he supposeth this That which is in the regiment of it was perfect before other is to be treated on before In deede of such a proposition no other conclusion could be inferred but such as hee maketh that is that the Church is to be treated on before he speake of the power of Princes which were nothing to prooue that which the Declaration intended Yet as if hee had gathered this skilfully and like a good Logician which it is like he eyther neuer thorowly learned or hath forgotten many yeares agone He standeth a long time vppon examining the trueth of it In which rouing although he be a myle from his marke yet I see I must eyther followe him or giue him ouer First hee sayeth that vnder the name of the Church it is set downe in this propositioÌ„ that the fowre ecclesiasticall offices of Pastors Teachers Elders and Deacons were before the Church this is the first poynt he sayeth is included in this sentence The next poynt he toucheth is the multiplicitie and manifold significations of prioritie which is time nature order or honour and cause as he addeth after vppon better remembrance Hauing made him selfe this way he beginneth to examine which of these wayes th'ecclesiasticall officers of

the Church should be before Princes in the opinion of the Declaration graunteth that in time they were before but denyeth that in a treatise that should be alwayes first which is firste in time his reasons for it are these Though Moses did so describing the maner how things began in the creatioÌ„ yet we are not tyed to this order this is an obiectioÌ„ against him selfe whereto he maketh a slender answere Caluin beginneth with the knowledge of man so ascendeth to the knowledge of God If this example be regarded by him then why doeth he charge the Declaration with treason for not treating first of Princes when as Caluin whose example he setteth for a president and not without cause was bolde to treate first of man and after of GOD which in his diuinitie must needes be blasphemie if the other be treason A thirde reason that Paule teacheth not the Romanes amisse saying that the inuisible things of God beinge vnderstood by his workes through the creation of the worlde are seene that is both his eternall power and godhead Wherby he meaneth that although God were before things created yet he teacheth them not amisse to knowe God by his works Wherein he hath forgotten that he vndertooke to proue that in a treatise that which is first in time ought not alway to bee first in place Which if he had shewed in the Epistle to the Romanes to haue bin obserued although it were nothing to the Declaration yet had hee hit his marke that he hath chosen to roue at But in bringing vs for an example of a whole treatise not halfe a treatise no nor one whole chapter nor half a chapter but one single sentence he is farre from his owne marke he shot at Such an other example of a sentence out of the fourth to the Ephesians he alleadgeth whereto this aunswere serueth Last of all that the declaration maketh Elders before Apostles yet place Apostles after in the treatise which were nothing to his owne purpose if it were trewe But that Elders in the Church of Christ are sayde by the declaration to haue bin before Apostles is not trewe This is his discourse of time fitter as a great deale of the rest for some homely vse then to spende good time about His next poynt concerneth prioritie of honour wherein he reasoneth wholy against him selfe and for the Declaration For his discourse of it is to this effect that that which is before other in honour ought not alwayes to be treated on before but may be handled first or last notwithstanding the preeminence of honour which he examplifieth in treatises of morall and naturall philosophy and which is aboue all in God of whom he saith that although he bee afore all things in time in honour and in all respectes yet firste or last may be treated vpon by good order of teaching Which if it be trewe why draweth he the Declaration to the Kinges benche and enditeth it of treason onely for that the first place of that treatise is not of the power of soueraign Princes in ecclesiasticall matters If it be no treason against God but good order to treate of him first or last is it treason so to treate of earthly and mortall Princes O more then palpable flatterie The Lord so direct all christian Princes and chiefly our soueraine Lady the Queene to be so farre froÌ„ aduauÌ„cing those that shal thus lift vp any flesh bloud aboue the liuing immortall god as that coÌ„trariwise they may seuerily punish those that shall dare to speake or write things for pleasing of them that are so vnmete to be spoken and written of the hiest Maiestie This shall be the honour of Christian Princes to endure no such thing to be attributed vnto them but to prouide that God may be honoured aboue all things to whom onely all glorie and honour appertayneth His conclusion of this parte should haue bin that thinges are not necessarie to be treated vpon according to their worthines and honour but hauinge forgot him selfe agayne he falleth vpon the former poynt alreadie dispatched of the prioritie of the time The reason whereof seemeth to be that by such errour he might yet vent a newe argument concerning the necessitie of treating first of that which is first in time which is that this is the papistes argument for traditions For sayeth he they saye that the word was deliuered by tradition before it was written and therefore of no lesse authoritie If any man may make a chayne of sande and cause it to hange by linkes togither he may happilie make some coherence of this argument with the matter he is in hande to prooue All the helpe he giueth the Reader to discerne howe this is to bee applyed to his purpose is this The papistes encroch from the time to authoritie as our brethren here doe Where doe the brethren so We are brethren with him in a maner at euery worde but yet we are with him like papistes like Anabaptistes vnduetifull to Princes nay traytours to them and what not Such brethren had Joseph who deuised to kill him Gen. 37.2.18 because he tolde their Father of their euill deedes as we discouer theirs to th' authoritie that is to reforme them Of such brethren the Church complayneth by Solomon saying The sonnes of my mother were angry against me Canti 1.5 c. It were to be wished you were more naturall brethren then you are But for the matter where in what wordes doeth the Declaration gather any such thing not a little that soundeth that way In deede he will needes force vpon them that they gather so because they saye that the Church was perfect in all hir regiment before there were any Christian Princes But what authoritie is collected from this yet if it had bin so is euery argument proouing a thing to bee better because it is order a popish argument Doeth not our Sauiour reason thus when he sayeth It was not so from the beginning but in the beginning it was thus And the Apostle to the Galathians directlie reasoneth thus from the time saying that the Lawe which was giuen 450. yeares after the promise could not make it voyde and of none effect The places of arguments are as the light of heauen and the water of the riuer common to all whereof some vse them to lawfull and good vses and some vnlawfull vngodly If anie hereticke haue reasoned from the causes shall therefore the arthodoxe and sounde in faith bee barred from vsing at time an argument from the causes This is as simple a poynt in diuinitie as he hath handled all this whyle in Logike concerning the methode and order of a treatise If wee vse their argumentes to the same purpose let him disproue it which yet he and whosoeuer taketh in hande the defence of the Hierarchie must needs doe For all their principal reasons to proue Bi hops and Archbishops are the same that Turrianus and other popish writers

withall to encourage and mainteyne the same In all whose giftes dedicated so to God as the Church hath great helpe and comfort so especiallie in those which most yeeld that helpe and comfort such as are the blessing of authoritie and power bestowed of GOD vpon soueraigne Princes which being sanctifyed and consecrated to the seruice and honour of God that gaue it the wicked both in the ecclesiiasticall and ciuill state are by ciuill power and punishment enforced to doe their dueties and the godlie in both estates are protected in their innocencie and well-doeing from all such as would oppresse them The holy storie declareth that religious and noble Kings of Iuda haue made sundrie ciuill statutes to th'enforcing of all to worship God in general and by their power haue punished false prophetes and idolatours haue commaunded the priests to doe such dueties as they stoode charged to performe that the true seruice of God might be restored and established agayne amongest his people Iere. 26.16 We reade that when the Priestes would most wickedlie and vniustlie haue condemned Jeremie to death diuers of the Kings counsell came vppon them and by their authoritie deliuered him out of their handes Ierem. 38.11 12.13 Another time a noble maÌ„ hauing fauour with the king deliuered him out of prison And an other time the King him selfe relieued the Prophete by remoouing him from Iehonathans prison Iere. 37.15.16.17 Like examples reade we many of the Emperours Christians to the immortall prayse of God for it and the perpetuall honour of such Princes We see diuers such Josias Constantins in this age of which spirit the Lorde poure out yet greater abouÌ„dance from aboue for the exceeding great helpe and comfort that we finde and vppon such a largesse hope yet to finde in greater aboundance by the sanctifyed power of Christian Princes For they looking into former presidentes of auncient times and seeing cause of like duetie to bee performed by them selues no doubt will be carefull that all ecclesiasticall offices and orders not of God nor agreeable to his worde be abolished and all such established as he hath commaunded Then not onely Princes shall receyue honour of their style of Supremacie but the Church shall receyue also great comfort and benefite by it in punishinge such as shall without iust cause saye to the Prophete Prophecie not and to the Preachers preache not a matter not onely in highest degree offensiue to the Maiestie of Almightie God and against the saluation of mens soules but also vnprofitable for their Crownes seeing ignorance is the mother of all rebellion the knowledge of God of all trew loue and obedience If any of them beate their fellow-seruauntes â˜ž or sitte downe to drink with the drunken and neglect the Lords housholde they will take knowledge of the abuses and wronges offred to the seruauntes of God and graciouslie heare and redresse their iniuries So great difference is there betweene Gallio suffringe a man to be beaten at his barre and profanely neglecting it and caring for no such things as were questions of Religion a Christian Prince fearing God in trueth and in deede In questions amongest the Ministers according to the example of Constantine and others they would cause the matters to bee hearde and debated in a soly and free Synode and assemblie and without respect of persons authorize that which should be most agreeable to Gods worde In cases of publique calamities threatning or lying vpon the Church if the ecclesiasticall officers were negligent carelesse in it they would cause by due order a publike fast to bee kept by all their subiectes that the wrath of God might be turned away and his fauour reconcyled agayne vnto his people Finallie their ciuill power would enforce all men to honour God and liue in duetie one to wardes another as they ought defending the godlie against the mightie oppressour the staffe of the wrath of the good and the violent man and punishe the iniquities of the wicked according to their desertes in iustice and equitie These and many more which by these may be considered are the helpes commodities and benefites which the Church of God doeth and may receyue by meanes of Christian Princes Notwithstanding they make no other lawes officers nor orders in the Churche then our Sauiour Christe hath alreadie made and established Which may suffice for a number of the Repliers questions and other speaches tendinge to this that there should be little or no vse of christian Princes if the regiment of the church be perfect without them In which discourse allowing in some sorte the regiment of the primitiue Church perfect because of the Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes whom then God gaue to the church he sayeth those offices were giuen as temporarie aydes to supplie th'aydes of Christian Princes which can not be so in anie sorte For there is no maner of proportion betweene their offices the one being for preaching the worde and other such like ecclesiasticall functions th' other for ciuill gouernement the one by a spirituall power the other by a temporall besides a number of other differences whiche may easilie shewe the one could in no sorte serue for supply of the other Further if it had bin so then should the Apostles and the rest of those extraordinarie officers who he sayth were giuen for supplie of the wante of the ordinarie authoritie of Princes they should then haue continued about 300. yeares longer then they did euen to Constantines time Nay then they should haue bene alwayes such to this day and shal be to the ende of the worlde in such partes of the Church where the former are enimies to Religion otherwise wanting both them and the supply the Church might seeme weakelie prouided for But as the noueltie of this poynt nowe first deuysed the vanitie is so easilie manifest as I shall not neede to tary longer vppon it wherfore nowe I procede to that which foloweth in his reply Hitherto the Replyer hath laboured in vayne to shewe that if it were graunted that in the primitiue Church there was yet no Prince become Christian notwithstanding the regiment of the Church was not perfect before there was any christian Prince Nowe he pretendeth to proceede further to prooue that proposition vntrew which sayeth there was not any christian Prince then For this vntowardly hath hee set it down so as it can not be plainlie vnderstood to what time his then is to be referred and chaungeth the wordes of the declaratioÌ„ whiche are these That all the regiment of the Church was perfect before there was any Christian Prince Which proposition hee should haue vndertaken to haue spoken to if he would haue sayde any thing to the Declaration But after hee hath sette downe this proposition to him selfe to prooue it vntrewe that there was not any Christian Prince then hee leaueth the matter he vndertooke and turneth asyde to another thing saying albeit so this be no good argument

nor this nor this and so maketh three sundrie argumentes of his owne as if they were vsed by the Declaration but are not and denyeth them to be good which is nothing to the matter he tooke in hande For if he make a hundreth yll argumentes as he hath done in this booke and can more easilie doe them then make one good one there is no reason to charge the Declaration for such a cause as he mainteyneth From this he goeth to shewe that it is not meete our brethren should vse the same argumentes that the Anabaptistes doe against Princes Wherein he nameth vs our brethren as scorning vs. Whereof I knowe not what example he may haue but of Ismaell who is said to haue scorned Isaac wherevpon th'Apostle sayeth As he that was begotten according to the fleshe persecuted him that was borne according to the spirit euen so is it nowe The rest of that marginall note shewing whereabout hee goeth is that our brethren vse the same argumentes whiche the Anabaptistes doe against Princes Which is so doubtfullie set downe as if he could be content the Reader tooke it not onely that the Anabaptistes vse argumentes against Princes but also that the Declaration vseth the same argumentes against Princes The Replier him selfe hath not so farre lost all conscience and modestie as to charge vs in anie sorte with any part of the damnable errours of the Anabaptistes but plainlie acknowledgeth that we detest them but somewhat he would fayne should cleaue vnto vs. And therefore would haue it vnderstoode that we haue some indisposition against Princes that we haue thus much good liking of the disputations of the Anabaptistes as to vse their argumentes against Princes But the Lorde who seeth the secretes of all hartes knoweth that in our most inwarde spirit we reuerence and honour Magistracie as the holy and necessarie ordinance of God euen amongst Christians and yeelde all willing and cheerfull obedience vnto it euen for conscience sake of the will of God Therfore the accuser of our brethreÌ„ him self as he is termed in the reuelation can not accuse vs with any maner of colour of their errours As for vsing their argumentes where did euer the Anabaptistes vse this argument that in a treatise of ecclesiasticall regiment good order requireth to speake first of ecclesiasticall officers before a man treate of the soueraigne power of Princes because the Church was perfect in all hir regiment before there was any Christian Prince Is this any argument against Princes or doeth it weaken any thing at all the power of the Christian Magistrate that their authoritie be treated of in a booke so as may stande best with good order Where did euer any Anabaptistes vse such an argument It were flatlie contrarie to their error to vse such a one as plainlie implyeth allowance of the Christian Magistrate and standeth onely for a reason of the order of the treatise But if the Declaration had vsed any argumentes of theirs being not to the same ende or like purpose that they vsed them that is to disproue the necessarie most lawfull ordinance of God concerning Magistrates that had not bin blame worthie For as hath bene saide th'argumentes of Logike are as common to good and badde as are the rules of grammer yea as the SuÌ„ne and the rayne so as if he would haue vs forbeare all the argumentes that euer the Anabaptistes vsed and by consequence anie other heretiques he may as well forbid vs to vse the same rules of grammer yea the same Sunne ayre water and other things necessarie for this life But howe standeth this with his maintenance of the Popish Hierarchie and Iurisdiction so many popishe superstitions as he mainteyneth all whiche it were more reason he should refuse then to haue coÌ„mon with them and other things of most necessarie vse But it is not for nothing that he obiecteth this for by this meanes hee hath gotten the aduaÌ„tage of stuffing his booke with another mans labours In deede if it be a faulte in a booke to be little as hee scorned the booke of coÌ„mon prayer presented of late in Parliament for being litle he hath founde a good remedie to auoyde that fault which is easilie auoyded if one write so many not sentences but pages and leaues as he hath done out of other mens bookes The Authour he alleadgeth is one Gellius a godly learned man as appeareth by his writings but where he saith it may seeme the declaration tooke many things out of him he is greatly deceyued for the declaration was written not a fewe yeres before the booke of Gellius which he saith so much is taken out As for his writing against the Anabaptists he hath dealt as may well coÌ„mend both his pietie learning and be of verie good and profitable vse vnto the Church but to the matter of the declaration he sayth nothing at all Therfore there is no cause to make any answere to him who speaketh nothing against vs. But if he alleadge him because he otherwyse expouÌ„deth a text of scripture then the Declaration doeth it is not worth his labour of writing this being no new thing that good writers may take some one text in other sense then another doeth prouided that the sense be alwayes such as may stande with the proportioÌ„ of faith So as the declaratioÌ„ is no more in that case to be pressed with the opinion or authoritie of Gellius then Gellius or any other is to bee with his that wrote the Declaration Which yet if he will presse further the trueth is that the declaratioÌ„ in the exposition of the 12. to the Romanes the 12. of the former epist to the Corinthians hath both the trueth it selfe to beare witnes to it and the best writers of this age For it is cleare that the worde Gouernor in those places noteth only ecclesiasticall officers all sure and circuÌ„stances of that place so inforcing it Another point he would take of Gellius is that he saith that Magistracy and ministerie haue bin most nearely ioyned togither euen from the beginning as appeareth by Moses Aaron Which is godly truly said of Gellius but what is this either for the replier or against the declaratioÌ„ The reason gathered hereof is such as I thinke no man of reason would haue looked for that is as he noteth in the margent that the ciuill Magistrate hath euer froÌ„ the beginning bin ioyned with the ecclesiasticall ministery intending thereby that then it must needes haue bin so likewise in the primitiue Church But Gellius his meaninge is so farre from this as it may seeme hee hath bene cousined in it and giuen to light credite to other that haue abused him or els to haue vsed small eyther diligence or conscience in this collection For the purpose of Gellius is farre other in that place namely to shewe that Magistracie and ecclesiasticall ministerie are not as the Anabaptistes would haue it thinges that can not stande togither For

But of this there wil be a fitter place to speake Here it may suffice to admonishe the Reader of the insufficiencie whiche Gellius noteth to be in men for exercising of both offices For which cause God did distinguish and seuer them to be administred by diuers persons Thus proceedeth he on still with Gellius noting in the next place the example of Christian Magistrates in Christ and the Apostles times Whiche is that place where Gellius maketh mention of the Captaynes or Centurions of Joseph Nicodemus and such like wherevnto I haue answered before alreadie Nowe the Replyer hauing fought a great whyle with another mans weapons and persuading him selfe that his owne right hande had done valiauntlie beginneth to sounde his trumpet as if the victorie were his owne saying thus wee see most euidently howe weake this reason is to witte of the perfection of the Churches regiment before there were any christian Princes and with what a multitude of farre better reasons yea with a cloude of witnesses it is beaten downe Wherin he reioyceth as if a blinde man striking often at a venture because he hath wearied him selfe should triumphe as if hee had driuen his enimie out of the fielde Yet hauinge in the middest of this his blinde vanitie some glymse that this reason commeth still like an armed man vpon him hee holdeth out this bucklar against it that it auayleth not to saye they were no Emperours For sayeth he it euicteth the cause sufficientlie that they were Princes or at least any kinde of Magistrates In deede if it may suffice to shewe that any Magistrates in the time of our Sauiour Christ receyued the faith of the Gospell he hath wonne his spurres and is worthie if not to bee knighted yet Bishopped which I thinke he had rather be But the question is onely of soueraigne Princes whether any such were Christians in that time Whiche his cloude of witnesses vanishing away like a cloude or as a cloude without water driuen about with euery winde hath not bin able to doe for him Yet is he not satisfied thus to leaue the matter but obiecteth against him selfe that those Magistrates exercised no authoritie ouer the Church but were in it as priuate men Which is very true but not alleadged by the Declaration and therefore no cause he should enter into the disprooue of that except he can not endure that any trueth stande before him To this hauing litle to saye of him selfe he sayeth that Gellius sayeth somewhat to this out of whom yet he noteth no one word to this purpose but to another he noteth that the churches regiment is more happie where Christian Princes are Which thing the Declaration might haue taught him And thus farre hath he reasoned out of Gellius against the first part of the argument of the Declaration affirming the Churches regiment to haue bene perfect before that anie Princes were Christians For that which he addeth after of his owne of Paules appeale to Caesar for the decision as hee sayeth of an ecclesiasticall controuersie is of so small colour of likelihoode as can not easilie abuse anie For who will be so absurde as to thinke that Paule referred the decision of the question hee had with the Iewes concerning saluation by our Sauiour Christe as it is Ecclesiasticall to Nero who vnderstoode nothinge of those matters and was him selfe a great enemie as the Apostle seemeth to call him as a Lyon readie to deuoure all that made profession of that faith 2. Tim. 4.17 It were time nowe to proceede to his replye to the other parte of the argument but that the Reader is firste to be admonished concerning Gellius out of whom the Replyer hath written so many leaues because of all other he thought him to write most soundlie and fauourablie of the office and power of Magistrates that this same Gellius so duetifull to Magistrates is an earnest defendour of that ecclesiasticall gouuernement which the Replyer in all his booke oppugneth Whereof it is to bee obserued that the reformed Discipline which is desired to be established amongest vs is in no sorte preiudiciall to Christian Princes or other Magistrates For Gellius who writeth as earnestlie for the maintenance of the reformed Discipline as anie the same also writeth as duetifullie of the office and power of Magistrates and as largelie yea and more against the Anabaptistes then euer did any of the Romane Hierarchie or vnreformed Discipline Therefore notwithstandinge our seekinge to aduaunce by all good and lawfull meanes that holy ordinance of GOD of the onely lawfull Discipline whereby the Church ought to bee guyded wee may be and are by the grace of God as loyall and louing subiectes as duetifull and obedient as anie are of their whyte coate whiche they striue so much for Besides this the Reader is to obserue the good discretion of the Replyer in resting so wholy vppon the authoritie of Gellius in this matter Whose testimonie if he acknowledge so graue and of such credite as if it had bin against vs he would haue giuen sentence against vs vppon it why should not the same mans witnes bee of like waight and credite to iustifie our cause and to preiudice his if so be his testimonie may be shewed to be with vs and against him in this cause of the Discipline of the Church But this is manifest by a treatise of Gellius expresselie written of ecclesiasticall Discipline Out of which I might write more leaues to shewe his iudgement and his reasons in the diuerse pointes of Discipline for that onely lawfull and holy order which the Replyer hath audaciouslie set him selfe against and oppugneth then he wrote out of him to no purpose for the office of the Magistrate Whereby it is cleare that if he stande to the witnesse of Gellius he hath lost the whole cause hee laboureth so greatlie to mainteyne Nowe I proceede to the rest of his replye The Declaration for proofe of the order to be followed in that treatise hauing alleadged that the regiment of the churche was perfect before there were any christiaÌ„ Princes addeth further that it may doeth stande at this day in most blessed estate where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers The reply to this beginneth with such an exclamation as a man would thinke he hearde sawe the hye Priest mentioned in the Gospell renting his cloathes and cryinge Hee hath blasphemed what neede we any more witnesses Mat. 26.65 Behold now you haue heard his blasphemie what thinke you yet was it no euill that was spoken but a most holy trueth whiche that priest of all other ought to haue perceyued There follow next idle repetitions as of other thinges so of his former vayne demaundes what vse then there may bee of Christian Magistrates to the Church Wherevppon I haue alreadie aunswered shewinge the Magistrates to bee ordeyned of GOD for the protection of the good and punishment of the euil doer And that as in other matters so also in

church these other pointes like vnto them being declared in the worde of God to be the ordinances of the almightie for the guydance of his Church and this being the vse of the reformed Churches no doubt but they were mainteyned by a booke agreeing with them both Which being so what should I say of them that would endeuor to the vttermost of their power by all good and duetifull meanes the receyuing of a booke so fitt for the aduancement of the honour of God and promising so great good vnto his people but as it is in the Psalme Peace and prosperitie be in thee Ã´ Ierusalem thou citie of God and the Lord prosper those that loue thee Psal 122.6 The Almightie suffer them not to feare the feare of the wicked but shield them from all euil as the naturall and noble sonnes of Abraham Gene 15.3 and whosoeuer they be dealt with here the Lord recompence them with an exceeding great rewarde Hee remember them for good according to the prayer of that worthie restorer of the Citie seruice of God Nehemia Nem. 5.19.13.12.29 and what soeuer they haue done for this people their endeuour to take away the pollutions of the ministerie to set the Lords watch at his gates again euerie Leuite to his worke according to his place the Lorde spare them according to the greatnes of his mercie and remember them and their seruice for good so as their childrens children may receyue at their handes an inheritance of blessing from the Lorde And if any should be otherwise minded the Lord forgiue it them and graunt that they also in his good time may haue this trueth opened to them and be noble and elect instrumentes chosen and appointed of God to the furtherance of the same Thus farre haue I bin bolde to folowe th' occasion offered me in mencion of a booke of common prayer and administration of Sacramentes agreeable to Gods worde and the vse of the best reformed Churches The whiche I am for their sakes who seeke all aduantages to stirre vp the higher powers against vs truely and vnfeynedlie to protest that I write not with purpose to offende anie God being witnes and least of all any that are in authoritie For I bowe my face downe to the grounde before them all of whom it is saide Ye are Gods and in all reuerent duetie acknowledging the most humble and faithfull duetie which I owe to the great power that God hath giuen them to the punishing onely of the euill doer but to the protection maintenance and comfort of all that doe well in the lande yea further as conscience and duetie bindeth mee in that respect I doe not cease to lift vp my harte and my handes to Almightie GOD day and night for them all that it maye please him dailie more and more to increase in them all the princelie giftes that their high places and authoritie doe require and namely that their hartes may bee more enlarged towardes this so necessarie a cause of Gods seruice the comfort of his people which I doe also as my most straight bound and obligation requireth especiallie for our soueraigne Ladie the Queene that as God in his mercie hath honoured hir right excellent Maiestie with these honors th'extinguishing of the fires wherewith the Church consumed the ouerthrowe of idolatrie and false worship of God the establishing of the free professing and preaching of the Gospell of Christe the harbouring of exiles for the gospels sake the deliuering of the Churches of Scotlande from captiuitie patronizing of the Churches of the lowe Countries ayding and assisting of the Churches of France and the comforting in a manner of all the Churches which professe the gospell that I say to these so manie and so highe and chiefe pointes of true honor this also may be added that hir Maiestie by Gods speciall fauour assistance of his holy Spirit may establishe in this hir happie raigne the same order for directing of the Church and publishing the gospell of saluation to all the people within hir Dominion which almightie GOD hath appointed for this purpose to the great aduancement of the honour of GOD the exceeding ioye of all the good people in the lande and hir owne vnspeakeable comfort and glorie with God and men Thus praying not to be misconstrued in that I haue bin bold vpon occasioÌ„ to speake a little to the incouragement of Christian and noble mindes in godlie and duetifull maner to sollicite almightie God and th' authoritie he hath set ouer vs in Syons sute being so necessarie and so importinge the good both of the Church and common wealth amongest vs the happie estate whereof dependeth vpon the fauour of God I returne to the Replier To whom for his replie of agreeable I answere that agreeable is not that which is contrarie but whiche hath a correspondence and harmonicall concorde with that wherewith it agreeth And so is it to be vnderstood in the place whereof he maketh question but such a sence woulde he fayne make of agreeable to saue all vpright in an other place which yet will not serue for sundrie repugnances coÌ„trarieties which are there with the word with the vse of the best reformed Churches And thus farre to his replie to the matter set downe in the thirde part of the foundation Nowe to his replie to the reason wherewith it is confirmed The proofe alleadged for this thirde point he admitteth not so easilie as the matter it selfe Which being grauÌ„ted to be true it importeth the lesse whether it be fitly proued by it or no yit peraduenture hee would better haue discerned of the consequence from that place if he had considered the man of God there to note not the ciuill Magistrate nor euery one of the faithfull but only the Minister of the word as both the terme it selfe and the dueties of his calling there mentioned doe testifie Whereby it is playne that the wordes of the Apostle doe more particularlie concerne matters of the Church then they doe ciuill pollicie or morall life as he obiecteth Nowe it being saide that the minister of the worde whose calling is the greatest in the Church is fullie and throughlie instructed by the holy scriptures for euery duetie belonging to his office Surelie the Elders and Deacons whose charges are lesse may be taught by the same what belongeth vnto them and if they furnishe and direct him that requireth most furniture and direction surelie then they can not want that neede lesse And if all that are of publike charge in the Church be fully instructed and inabled of God for euerie parte and pointe of their dueties by the holy scriptures what one concerning the discipline of the Church can be saide not to be taught in the word of God seeing the whole Discipline is administred by those that beare publique charge in the church If this proofe content him not he is to be satisfied further in the proofes of the seuerall pointes

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