at your returne you found it an endeavoure to answere some peece of it and within few lines you will me to set downe al as you do Your simile is vnfit for you set not downe all that you had of me Neither could I set down all your Sermon for I had but the notes of it and them also written with your owne hand so confusedly that it woulde haue troubled your selfe to tell which was the beginning middle or end Therefore this quarrell that I did not set downe all seeing I had not all is very vnreasonable As for your notes I answered them all sauing two arguments which being forced to seek heeâ—e one and there an other I missed in that confused Chaos of non bene iâ—â—ctarum discordia semina verum If you had bene disposed to speake properly they were too small a quiâ—let to make all the rest be called but a peece of your Sermon Buâ— your warinesse heere is notable Least some might think too well of my reply you will not vouchsafe it the name of an answere but an indeavoure to answere some peece of your Sermon Such it â—eavours as this may well blind the simple but amongst the wise wil never purchase much credit to your cause But you would haue let all alone you say if the speeches of the people disgracing your abilitie had not set you a worke my desire was either to winne you to vs or reasons from you to drawe me to you But nowe it appeareth that your owne estimation was more precious in your eies than the defence of the trueth or winning men from errours This will be a foull blot in the face of a Doctor except you wash it with a bale of truth and plaine dealing confessing that I was in no errour at all But then you say you resolved to defend your selfe or else to recant I thought you had bene resolute in Chippinhames pulpit six moneths before if you were not as resolute then as now I will not take your word for shoe-buckles for I had then more witnesses to your word than I haue now to your hand But me thinks it is strange that I oppugning David Esay Ezechiell Peter Paul and Christ himself could haue escaped the check of your pen if it had not bene to maintaine your owne credite amongst the people It is without doubt that you loued that most that moved you most If you were not as jelous of their maintenance as your owne estimation you were not so sure a friend as many supposed But it is hard for me you say to kicke against the prick It were so if I did so but looke you M. Doctor to your owne heeles for my part I haue the testimony of a good conscience No other cause than the simple loue of the trueth set me on worke I levelled not at preferment I commended not my work to great persones I published not my book till you opened the gate I could do no lesse than followe As for Christ and his Apostles I hope to make it clear in al indifferent eares that I haue not opposed one syllable against them And that you pull my wordes as Cacus did Hercules his Kein into what stinking dennes it pleseth your wrangling braine to devise I know both what when and where I write I write of an Article of our faith in which I am so much more earnest as the Children of God shuld be more diligent to vnderstand their faith aright As for these dangerous times it is you that neglect them It is you that devide the coat of Christ it is you that handle the Scriptures guilefully it is you that publish private things to make the Papists sport and trouble the Church That which divers learned Papists affirme the Scriptures never saide you put them to the rack to make them confesse Scotus saith that the discense of Christ into hell cannot be prooued by Scriptures And radius one of the learnest that was in the counsel of Trent saith it and proues it Hesselius another of the same counsell construeth the place of Peter against you To him accordeth Thâ—mas Aquinas and Dionysius Carthusianus agreeth with Andradius It were easie to quote many If the seeking of them were not more laborious than their testimonies will be effectuall in this cause I bring onely these to set their ingenuitie against your partialitie As for the Church of England it hath not alwaies fostered your opinion as you vntruely avouch The times of popery we yeeld you because you agree in the name and the places be but severall roomes of one dungeon Neither can we denie you the times of King Edward which creeping but out of the shelles of Popery had not shaken of the buddes of your errour about that time the greatest part of your favorities liued and in that time your opinion for want of better was confirmed by convocation But anno 1564. in the beginning of her Majesties raigne in a convocation assembled to reestablish the Acts of King Edward which Queene Mary had taken away that article only was reformed and your opinion defaced no more being left but the naked article of the beleefe in wordes equivalent wherevpon I build this reason No counsell nor convocation censuring a former taketh that away which it selfe alloweth But this convocation censuring the convocation of King Edward hath taken your opinion away Ergo this convocation allowed not your opinion But contrariwise the same Church of England hath made our opinion her owne by publishing by her authoritie Thomas Rogers exposition of these Articles wherein he agrees with vs and countenansing it with her owne name in titeling it the English Creede She hath also printed and allowed by her authoritie many books against you The Geneva Bible I know not how many times The newe Testament with Beza and Villerius his notes Fulkes answere to the Remishe Testament Baro his Lectures vpon Ionas Calvins Institutions at large and abridged Northbrooks Confession Fulk against Gregory Martine and the Rhemists Whitaker against Campion and Duraeus Vrsinus his Catechisme Bastingius his Catechisme Andrewe Willets vewe of Popery with many others Some dedicated to the Queene her selfe Some to my Lord Treasurer some to my lord of Huntington some to my lord of Leister some to my lord of Bedford some to my lord of Warwick some to one some to another all allowed and all against you Lastly our opinion hath bene taught in the Pulpits defended in Schooles allowed in the Vniversities so that one Doctor Husse his grace was denied in Cambridge aboue 20. yeares agoe for your opinion and yâ—â—r owne had bene denied you within this three yeares in Oxford if you had not promised more than you meant to performe Whatsoeuer other men hath done or spoken for their owne you are the first that ever I heard of that oppugned ours in the Church of England saving D. Husse in Leister Against whome the Bishop of that Diocesse did oppose himselfe procuring
soule was in Hell withâ—â—t torments contrarie to the name and nature of Hell which presenteth to the care and hart nothing but hainous and hideous torments Seventhlie that in these words Thou shalt be with mee in Paradice Christ spake onelie of his God-head Contrarie to the nature of the pronoune me which doeth alwaies note the whole person that speaketh Eightlie that having conquered Hell vpon the crosse It was needfull for him notwithstanding to goe to hell Contrarie to the sufficiencie of Christs sacrifice who had paid a full ransome for our sinnes before and left nothing behinde to be done in Hell These 8. cankers are festered in the marrowe of this absurde opinion for all which all the Scriptures hath not one sillable and therefore it must be a monster that hath bred so manie monsters I Had answered Maister Doctors Sermon as he calls it but to avoid prolixitie and because this is but a repetition of his reasons there I haue left it out and haue sent him a breefe summe thereof to shewe him that there is nothing there better then here only in the end of it he calles al his adversaries Boyes schismaticks phantasticall spirits rashe without studie and presumptuous without feare of God If Caluin be a boy if Beza be a boy if Marlarot be a boy if Vrsinus be a boy if Bastingius be a boy if Ramus be a boy if Olevian be a boy if Iunius be a boy if Tremelius be a boy if Baro be a boy if Brensius be a boy if Heresbathius be a boy if Sohnius be a boy if Bullinger be a boy if Bucer be a boy if Danaeus be a boy if Sadel be a boy if Viret be a boy if Sarcerius be a boy if Suinglius be a boy if Dering be a boy if Perkins be a boy if Rogers be a boy if Fulk be a boy if Willet be a boy if Reynolds be a boy if Whitaker be a boy if Hoper bishop of Glocester be a boy if Reynald Peacock Bishop of Chester in the time of Henrie the sixt be a boy I wil stand to it that this D. is not worthie to wait on many boyes and bear their books to the Schoole of their diligence of their learning of their discretion of their integritie of their constaÌ„cie of their humilitie though his mouth runne over in generall I hope he will blush to touch any of them in particular This I haue set downe to shewe thee gentle Reader that his cause wants not more greater adversaries then he supposeth it to haue fâ—vourers THE FIRST SECTION OF HVME his Letter IT fell out vpon some occasions that I was with a freend not farre froÌ„ Chippenham the day before you preached there As I was preparing to depart word came to my friend that you had certified M. Chalfont of your intent the day following to defende that which hee had spoken against M. Wisedome that day sennight before concerning the descension of Christ into hell where fore my friend wrought me to stay to heare what could be sayd for a matter that both hee and I did thinke to haue no great probabilitie I did so and it repenteth me not for there I heard something which otherwise perhaps would neuer haue entered in my barren brain I was strengthned in the truth prouing that which is coÌ„monly said that with eloquence is not able to shake it Wherfore I haue thoght it not amis to write these few lines vnto you either to win you to vs or to win some better reason froÌ„ you to bring me to you I am not maryed to mine owne opinion but if any man can bring mee better proofeâ— I am content to yeeld I hope the same of you for you told mee so in the pulpit where the tong should wait vpon the hart and speake his affections it is the dutye of all men especially of ministers to imploy their laboures to knowe the truth and not contentiously to defend their owne conceits which many tymes deceiues euen the wisest As yet your reasous haue confirmed rather then converted me HILL his reply IN the entrance of your answer you haue told two vntruths vpon vntrue reports The on that I certified M. Chalfont of mine intent which is not so for neither by messenger nor letter did I euer send to M. Chalfont The other is where you auouch that I would make an apology of M. Chalfonlts sayings against M. Wisdome which God knoweth was neuer my meaning for first I neuer knew what he had fayd in that controuersy til the morning I preached Secondly I did alwaies loue and honour M. Wisedome but M. Chalfont til that morning I was not acquainted with al. Thirdly hearing a strife reuiued of that matter which was not long before quieted in Sarum by the last Bishop now Archbishop of Yorke and being requested to deliuer my iudgment in the matter not by M. Chalfont but by one Richarde Woodlands to set vnity betwixt my bretheren and not to warre against M. Wisedome In the feare of God and not to please you or your friend or any other man I layd downe my iudgement and gaue vp my Sermon in writing to M. Wisedome crauing an answere to the whole not to some part of it Now you haue made an answer to some how truly it shall appeare and other things you haue left vnanswered for what cause let the reader iudge In the end you charge me with wit which is small with eloquence which is none and with my promise which I will keepe most willinglie hoping that you will keepe youres THese hainous accusations of vntruthes might haue beene left saving that you would haue the worlde to thinke that I am a common lyar To this end you crie out almost in euerie sect impudent and monstrous lyes It is in deed a point of Rhethorike but you neuer learned it in Christs schoole to build the credite of your cause if it be euill on the discredite of your aduersarie But they which are acquainted with my life I hope wil justifie me of this crime and they that know mee not neede no better argument of my innocencie then your accusations and the small occasions that you take against mee For if the report that came to my friend was not true I hope it was no great fault of mine nor greater fault in you to haue certified M. Chalfont of your purpose then to haue performed it If I woulde sit downe to audite and take counters in hand to lay your slippes but halfe so diligentlie as you are busie vpon euery corner of occasions to pul my wordes into suspition of vntruthes I coulde note in this praeface foure scapes not mistaken vpon vntrue reportes as you charge mee but misreported by your self that wold scarse abide a just tryall of honest dealing First that hearing ouer night of that controversie so much in mens mouthes you knewe not M. Chalfonts part till the morning you preached there may be true but is not
verie likelie Secondlie that you ment not to defend M. Chalfonts opinion will hardlie be beleeued except you can perswade the audieÌ„ce that you ment one thing and did an other Thirdlie that you gaue vp your sermon to M. Wisedome in wriring M. Wisedome can tel that it is not true Hee had nothing of you but a few scribled disordered notes The last is cunninger that I answered not the whole but some part of your sermon That which escaped without answere was so small a part that the rest might well haue bene called the whole if you had not bene disposed to abuse the simplicitie of your reader That the matter then in controversie was staied before in Sarum by the Bishop was true but in such sort that if you had not bene more busie then your commission it might haue stand more with your credite to haue let Chippenham alone For you were there injoined by the Bish two Iustices of the peace to confesse that M. Connam his opinion who was then your adversary was pia vera senteÌ„tia Whether you came to make peace amongst your brethren and not to warre against M. Wisedome I referre it to the audience peace-makers vse not to take parts Your peace did so little please M. Wisdome for as much as you honor him that beeing denied the pulpit at Chippenham by Chalfont contrarie to the order he was driuen to take Cosham church not far distant to defend the truth against you and your mate which thing he performed with great meekenesse and humilitie after his maner to the comforte of all that heard him the aedifying of them that were desirous to know the trueth These things if I were disposed to go to Tennis with you would sound more lie like then all the lies you haue flung at me But you are a Doctor and that were vn-manerlie Yet saving your worship you keepe not so good a watche through this worke as it becums such a lie-catcher Wherefore to conclude where you say that I accuse you of wit eloquence onelie denie the action and I will let fall my suâ—e But as for your promise I will neuer let goe my holde because I hope you will proue a man of your word HVME his 2. Sect. Nowe to come to the matter I see no cause why you should thinke better of Augnstine and Ierome then of Caluin and Beza for they were all but men and they which now are olde were sometimes new They had no better warrant of Gods spirit then these and errors in those dayes were so thicke sowen that there grewe darnell in the best fieldes euen of them whome now we most admire I speake not this to descredit the Fathers but to proue that they were no Gods They were no dout his good instruments to maintaine his truth against his enemies but they wer but meÌ„ you can not denie but the best of them had his steynes This no doubt was the forepurposed worke of gods infinite wisdom that seeing these infirmities our fond age might not set their writings in the place of his eternall word wherof one iote shal not passe though heauen and earth perish HILL his reply TWo argumentes you make against Augustine and Ierome The one is they had errors and therfore their interpretation not to be admitted The other is the time wherein they liued was corrupt and for that cause they are not to be alledged in a controuersy of Diuinitie The same argument I make against all new writers All new writers haue errors and they liue in a most corrupt time wherein as Christ saith shall bee many fals prophets many fals Christs to deceiue the very elect if it were posible Math. 24. 24. Therfore because men are vaine the time corrupt wee must beleue no man You argue ab accidente ad subiectuÌ„ For Augustine Ierome to erre it is an accident but the substance of all Fathers is to beget men in the word of truth 1. Cor. 4. 15. And for this cause Augustine himselfe willeth vs not to beleeue him vnlesse hee bring the word of God Truly sayth Augustine I do desire not onlie a godlie reader but a free corrector in all my writings especially in those things where there is great doubt but as I will not haue him to be giuen vnto mee so I will not haue him to be giuen to himself let him not loue mee more then the Catholike faith As I say to him beleue not my sayings as Canonical scriptures but beleue stedfastly wheÌ„ thou hast found that which thou beleuedst not but beleue not firmly that which thou hast not seene out of Gods worde So I say to him do not correct my writings by thine owne opinion or of contention but by the word of God by the reason therof vncontrouleable And against Cresconius the Grammarian hee thus writeth lib. 2. cap. 32. I am not moued with the authority of this Epistle but I consider theÌ„ out of the Canonical books and if they agree with the worde of God I receiue them with prayse if they disagre I refuse them with peace The like he hath Epist 3. Epist 112. And Ierome ad Theoph. is of the same iudgment I know that I esteeme otherwise the Apostles and otherwise other interpreters these men speak truth alwayes these men in some things do erre somtime These Fathers themselues confes themselues to be but meÌ„ wil vs to beleeue theÌ„ no farther theÌ„ they agree with Gods word Therfore they building vpoÌ„ Christ aswell as your newe ought to be beleeued rather in this point then they For what they wrote in this controuersy the same did all other godly Interpreters both Greek and Latin hauing a good warrant from Gods word But those of your side write contrary to Gods word to the auncient Fathers yea and contrarie to the new Fathers namly Luther Selueccer Chytraeus Pomeran Aepinus Lucas Lossius Alesius Aretius Peter Martyr M. Fox and M. Nowel Therefore because Augustine and Ierome agree both with the old and new writers especially with the worde of God I like better of them teaching the affirmatiue then of any other labouring to proue the negatiue To end therefore you must note this that all sayings of the Fathers either they are demonstratiue out of the scriptures then they are the voyce of God or else probable and these are the voyce of man or else false and then they are the voice of the Serpent HVME his reioynder to the 2. sect YOu make my argâ—ments as pleaseth you If wee had no better then you would affoorde vs wee were vnworthie of credite and worthie of your reproches First you alter the conclusion I neuer thoght said or wrote that their interpretations are not to bee admitted nor their sayings alledged in a controversie of Divinity Neither write I against theÌ„ except
it be a discredite to them that other men bee thought off aswell as they My conclusion was that their names broght no more credite to your cause then Calvine Beza did bring ours My arguments were twise so manie as you make them 1. That they were all but men 2. That they who now are old were sometimes new 3. That they had no better warrant of Gods Spirit 4. That errors grew as thicke in their times as in ours Seeing then all men are fraile and old errours are as bad as newe and newe truthes as good as olde seeing the spirit of truth was then no stronger nor the spirit of error weaker all things in this comparison you see are aequall and my argumeÌ„t holdes for anie thing that you haue said You take the bit in your teeth and runne out of the way with an argument ab accidente Therefore fare-you-well that is not my way You cite Augustine and Ierome onelie to make vp nomber Their confession of their owne frailtie is against you If my arguments had not beene so true before that no witnesses can make them truer this would haue helpt mee well Men may see that you haue either a meruelous ill cause or great stoare of small judgement that can take so much paines to bring witnes into the courte to condemne your selfe And heere nowe seeing your owne men do counsell mee to trust no man without the worde I conjure you to trouble mee no more with your great musters of Luther Selneccer Chytreus Pomeranus c. If I would run that course we should set al the learned of the world together by the eares You will beare mee down I confesse with nomber For all the Monkes Friars Iesuites Abbotts Bishops Cardinals and Popes woulde swaie to your side If I were not sure of God and his truth I would neuer draw sword nor giue stroake in the cause HVME sect 3. THeir weaknes is no where more apparant then in this mater that we haue now in hand for â—erom ioineth his opinioÌ„ herein with a palpable error that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers which to that day had bin in prison Augustine is not far behinde him who though hee confesseth that the Fathers were in ioy with Abraham Lazarus yet after some long disputation whether he did deliver all or some why these more then those at length he concludeth that hee did deliuer whome hee him selfe thought good For after that they had once conceaved that his soule descended into a locall hell There followed which could not choose many inconueniences There was non of them dreamed that which you avouch that hee descended into hell there to triumph or bind the divels or to augment their sorrows by shewing them from what grace they had fallen HILL his reply You write that Ierome and Augustine did hold a palpable error that is that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers I hope you will not deny but the fathers haue their deliuerance by Christ from hell Therfore by the merits and works of Christ who I am sure conquered both deth and hell Therefore where you proue that Augustine and Ierome do erre I will leaue them as I saide before but where in they spake the truth I will prayse God for them But let vs see howe many wayes the scripture may be corrupted that is by adding altering diminishing Eue in the third Chap. of Genesis taught all her children so to doe for in the 3. verse thus shee saith But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God hath said ye shal not eat of it neither shall ye touch it least ye dye First she changeth the word of God for God fayth Gen. 2. 17. of the tre of knowledge of good and euill thou shalt not eate Those words of the tree of knowledge of good and euill she changeth putteth in for them in the miust of the garden Farther God said they shuld not eat of it shee added that they might not touch it God said they should surely dye Eue said least wee dye heere she diminished the scriptures If then the Fathers haue added to the scriptures that the Fathers were fet out of hell there I leaue them and if you change hell in to graue as you do in the 16. psal and Act. 2. I wil leaue you also for I stand not vpon mens sayings but vpon the word of God But where you boldly affirme that not one of the Fathers haue deemed that which I say you shewe your self either to bee malicious in hiding the truth or else so ignorant that you haue not read the Fathers for diuers both old new are of my iudgement Ambrose on the fourth Chapter of the Ephesians thus writeth Christ therefore comming downe from heauen into the earth was borne a man afterward he died and descended into Hell from whence rising the third day he shewed death vanquished to every creature Augustine de tempore In his 137. sermon and in his thrid sermon of the resurrection thus sayeth Hell did restore him as a conquerour and the heauens did receaue him as a triumpher And in his second sermon hee saieth thus Behold you haue hard what our defender the God of vengeance is saide to haue done freely For after he was exalted that is was hanged of the Iewes on the crosse that I may touche these thinges brieflie assoone as hee had giuen vp the ghost the soule vnited to the Diuinitie descended into the bottom of hel and when he had touched the band of darkenesse as a fearefull glorious spoyler the wicked hellish Legions were affrayde trembling began to enquire saying Who is this dreadful glorious man Eusebius writing of the resurrection of our sauiour hath the like We must know that in the selfe same houre wherein our Sauiour bowing his head gaue vp the ghost his body being left in the graue his foul with the Diuinitie went downe to triumph ouer Hell Fulgentius writing to King Thtasymund in his third booke and eight Chapter not dreaming but wel aduised thus writeth The true humanitie of the sonne of God neyther was wholye in the graue nor wholie in hell but in the Sepulcher hee lay dead according to his true fleshe but in his Soule descended into Hell In his soule hee returned to the flesh which lay in the Sepulcher but in respect of the Diuinitie which neither is holden in place nor limited by bond he was wholy in the graue with his flesh and wholy with his Soule in Hel and by this meanes was fully enery where Christ because God was not seperated from the humanitie which he had assumpted which was both with his Soule in Hell that from Hel his Soule might returne a Conqueresse and was with his fleshe that by reason of his speedie resurrection it might not be corrupted I haue heere alleaged the
Martyr Lauaterus Prouerb 27. In England Lambert Robert Samuel Latimer Becon Hutchinson Fox and Nowell Heere are 20. most learned men of these latter times as I can shew you in my poore Library besides that most learned and reuerend Father M. Allen and besides the aduised iudgement of the learned Conuocations of England not only in King Edwards raigne Anno Domini 1552. but also since the raigne of her Maiestie 1571. In the which Canuocations I am perswaded were as learned men as any were either in England or Europe Therfore the learned reader must either thinke you a man of little reading and that you neuer sawe these learned mens workes or else of greate malice that you will disable al these for learning who left a better testimonie behinde them then euer you wil vnlesse you haue mor then you haue shewed in this answer The other vntruth is that SHEOL in the 16. Psalme doth signyfie the torments of hell which Christ suffered in his passioÌ„ on y â— crosse That this is vntrue it is manifest not by conceit but by Pet. Sermon Act. 2. 31. Hee knowing this before spake of the resurrection that his soule was not left in hell nor his flesh saw corruption You say it is spoken of the passion Peter saith it is spoken of the resurrection and good cause hath he so to say for the words going before and coÌ„ming after do prooue it The words going before are these Psalm 16 9. Wherefore my hart was glad my glory reioyseth my fleshe also shall rest in hope The words following in the 11. verse are these Thou shalt shewe me the path of life in thy presence is the fulnes of ioy and at thy right are pleasures for euer more Where can you finde your torments in the word glad or in the word reioiseth or in the word rest or in these words fulnesse of ioy or in these pleasures for evermore Was Christ glad of his torments Did he reioise or wepe in them Who would deliuer this doctrine but hee that wanteth either science or conscience or both To lye once is a fault but affirme it twice is a greater fault To speake a lye is hurtful but to write a lye aduisedly is more hurtfull To lye in a matter politicall is dangerous but to lye in deuine matters without speedie repentance is damnable You say noe vantage is giuen to me nor inconuenience to you if you grant SHEOL to be Hel Let your frinds iudge what vantage you haue geuen to the truth and shame to your self by gainsaying Saint Peter and by affiâ—ming that in the resurrection are torments where Dauid and Peter say are fulnes of ioy and pleasures for enermore Therefore it is the saying of Peter that Christs soule was not left in hell and not my conceit and it is deceit in you to affirm the contrary Further where you say that Tremelius and Iunius are better learned in the Hebrew language then my selfe I confesse it so are the Iewes them selues then Tremelius and Iunius shall I therefore beleue the Iewes no more will I beleue the Translation of any other learned man if he disagree with Dauid and Sauite Peter Finially to answer your curious question you aske me in what hell was Christ soule before his buriall To this I answer in that hell whither all Infidels goe for their vnbelefe I reade but of one Hell if you knowe any more let mee see your proofe and theÌ„ wil I tel you into what hel Christ desceÌ„ded But who but you doth thinke it an vnpossible thing for a soule to desceÌ„d into hel before the body be buried The soule in an instaÌ„t passeth to heaueÌ„ or hel but the body I am sure must haue time to be buried for bodies are in places circumscriptiuely Angels and soules definitiuely and God is in all places vniuersally And the soule came out of hell into the body before the body could come out of the graue therfore most aptly it is said Acts 12. 31. Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer my flesh to see corruption For as August saith in his 57. epistile ad Dardanum That was spoken of his soul which cam from hel so quickly this of his body which could not corrupt by reason of his speedy resurrection and writing on the 85. Psalme he saith wherfore this is his voice in the psalme not by any mans coniecturs but by the exposition of the Apost Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption HVME his Reioynder IN this section I followed Calvine from whose judgement I am nowe departed on this place of the Psalme as said is before sect 4. Yet that the reader may see how neare the trueth Calvine creepes I will defend him from all this wyde shot and cleare my self of these hainous accusations First you begin with vntruthes there is nothing so much in your mouth It should seeme that the moulde is not vnfit for such matter that casteth so much shot of that sise But if you had not beleeued your secretarie better then my owne copie the first of these vntruthes had neuer founde the waye from your owne lippes My wordes are Tu multa de nominibus inferni contra doctissimos huius atatis disputas As for your favorits in the end of my Epistle I graunted that you wanted not the countenance of sundrie great writers who rather said as you say then confirme their saying by Scripture or reason My wordes were multos habet fateor magnâ—s patronos causa vestra qui ita potius censuerunt quam ratione sententiam suam confirmarunt NotwithstaÌ„ding all this you runne such a treble on mee with vntruthes that if I would runne the counter-tenor you would blushe to heare the discorde of your owne descant As for your 20. authours first they were not all Hebricians nor vnderstood the word wherin you say they tooke your parte Secondlie though some of them drewe neere your opinion yet they neuer wrote of SHEOL to bee taken as you will haue it Thridlie Peter Martyr held that the soule of Christ did present it self to all the dead aswel the blessed as the damned Fourthlie Luther and Latimer holde that Christ suffered in Hell Fiftlie Lossius and Hemingsus holde that the whole Christ as he was borne of the Virgine Marie descended into Hel. Sixtlie Mollerus affirmeth that your opinion cannot be proved by this place of this Psalme Seuinthly M. Nowell holdeth that Christ by the vertue of his death did pearse to the dead and the damned Hell Eightlie Lambert saith nothing for you but onelie quoteth a place out of Augustine to another purpose wherein August seemeth to say as you say But Lambert neither lyketh nor dislyketh it Nynthlie Robert Samuell saith no more for
you then the verie wordes of the beleef Tenthlie in M. Foxes book of Christ triumphing ther is not anie thing for you but the Printers picture which you haue also set before your owne booke Lastlie Felinus and Pomeranus are with vs and against you Such is your skill to bleare the blinde make him thinke that your foes are your friends Thus if a man could intend to trace you he might finde you quatt in manie bushes where you want couer to hide your bunne If anie writer name but Hell it is ynough to make you bragge that he is youres As for the other vntruth wherewith you charge me it is answered sect 4. Yet because you think heere to winn the spurres and haue bragged amongst your frends that in this place you haue driuen mee so neere the hedge that I can neuer escape you without the foile it may be that that conceit may contem my answer Prejudice is a strong baye and will beare a maine strength before it breake Wherefore heere I will onelie turn the cock and make it spout the same water in your owne face to make you faine to flee to my cloake to keepe your shoulders from the shoure You holde that SHEOL in the 16. Psalme doth signify the locall Hell wherein the damned are tormented That this is vntrue it is manifest not by conceit but by Peters sermon Act. 2. 31. Hee knowing this before spake of the resurrection that his soule was not left in Hell nor his flesh saw corruption You say it is spoken of the locall Hell wherein the damned are punished Peter saieth it is spoken of the resurrection and good caus hath hee so to say For the wordes going before and comming after do proue it The words going before are these Psa 16. 9. Wherefore my hart was glad my glorie to vse your own translatiō lest you say I alter your words rejoiceth my flesh also shal rest in hope The words following in the 11. verse are these Thou shalt shew mee the path of life in thy presence is the fulnesse of joy and at thy right hand are pleasures for euermore Where can you finde your locall Hell wherin is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the word glad or in the worde rejoiceth or in the woorde rest or in the wordes fulnesse of joy or in these wordes pleasure for euermore Was Christ glad of that doole-full and dread-ful place Who would deliuer this doctrine but hee that wanteth either science or conscience or both To lie once is a fault but to affirme twise is a greater fault To speak a lie is hurtfull but to write a lie advisedlie is more hurtfull To lie in a matter Politicall is dangerous but to lie in divine matters without speedie repentance is damnable Thus far you This is your owne manerlie tale filed on your owne vice and taken out of your printed booke Wherein you giue your selfe roundly and handsomly the single-lie the double-lie the hurtfull-lie the advised-lie the dangerous-lie the damnable-lie If I had blowne this wind in your face you would haue said that I had beene bred in an Oxe-stall As for your opinion on this place of the Psalme I haue two sore shot against it That SHEOL heere can no waies bee the locall hell First it is in the Hebrew SHEOL and in the 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thou wilt not leaue my soule to hell and this place of the Actes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not true greeke except you vnderstand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as you note your self out of Clenard sect 14. Now thou wilt not leaue my soule to Hell cannot be vnderstood of a praesentiall beeing in the place of hell Ergo this place cannot be vnderstood of Christ that he was in the locall Hell If you bee so good a Graecian as you would be taken you should not bee ignorant that to make your sense it should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is in Math. 12. 40. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The other is this No man reioiceth that hee is deliuered from a place wherein hee suffered no ill but Christ heere rejoyceth vers 26. and 27. that hee should not bee left in SHEOL Ergo SHEOL is not heer the place of the damned wherein you say he triumphed and joyed and suffered no kinde of ill As for my science and conscience which heere you strike at you praise them your selfe such is your constancie in the beginning of your 12. section I knowe mine owne infirmities and dare not accept your praises As for my knowledge I am content that men count of it as they finde it As for my life I dare not bragg neither will I speake anie thing absolute but comparate this much I will say seeing you put mee to it that where wee are both knowne I can finde more mouthes to speake my purgation if I holde but vp my finger then your self can procure by freendes meanes You confesse which manie men wold think though you confessed it not that Tremelius and Iunius are better Hebricians then your self and affirme that the Iewes are better then they For my parte it is beyond my skill to make comparisons and my blinde eies can see no reason for that oddes But as you will not beleeue the Iewes you say no more will you Tremelius and Iunius against Dauid Peter You haue reason for you Yet til you proue it other men will suspect that Tremelius and Iunius had both as much care and as great judgement to keepe in with Dauid and Peter as you And for anie thing we see it is credible inough that Dauid Peter and they doe drawe all one way If you will beleeue the Iewes in nothing you doe them wrong If all men had been as hard laced as you no man had euer gotten Hebrew of them You answere the antecedent of my argument which you call a curious question without curious meditation It shoulde seeme that the question was more curious in your tongue then your eies that you can answere so readilie You trifle and tell mee that you read but of one Hell And I answere you that he who in serious matters of faith can finde a cavill a rebus ad voces will hardlie find credite of sincere dealing Did not you see that I spake of the three things signified in that name and not of the damneds Hell onelie which hath almost gotten the English name to it self from the other two For my part I neuer thought it a thing vnpossible for a soule to discend into Hell before the buriall of the body but that Christs soule should descend into hel and returne againe for so the wordes of the Psalme doth sound Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hel before the buriall of the bodie as the words do lie in order I euer held it and holde it yet a thing that you neuer saw and impossible for you to
A REIOYNDER TO DOCTOR HIL CONCERNING THE DESCENSE OF CHRIST INTO HELL WHEREIN THE ANSWERE TO HIS SERmon is justlie defended and the roust of his reply scraped from those arguments as cleanlie as if they had neuer bene touched with that canker By Alexander Hume Maister of Artes. ¶ HEERE BESIDES THE REIOYNDER thou hast his Paralogismes that is his fallacies and deceits in reason pointed out and numbered in the margin amounting to the nomber of 600. and aboue and yet not half reckoned TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE ROBERT ERLE OF ESSEX AND EWE VICOVNT Hereford and Bourchier Lord Ferreis of Chartlie Lord Bourchier and Lovane Maister of her Majesties horses and Knight of the most noble order of the Garter LONG LIFE WITH INCREASE OF Honour and after this lyfe lyfe euerlasting BEing drawne Right honorable into this controversie by the accidents expressed in the Epistle to the Reader I levelled all my labours to rake vp the coales and stiflle the flames of contention Being priuate I endevoured to keepe my selfe within the boundes of my condition I wrote in secrete acquainting fewe with my counsell I tempered my stile with the modestest words that I could devise I submitted my self to be led by better reasons I abstained from offences occasions of choller I wrote in latine that it might not come into the handes of the multitude hoping that if anie blowes fell harder then I meant them they might be the better taken the fewer saw them But all this seed bred no corne for M. Doct. hunting after praeferment if I mistake not his plot and setting the foundation of his praise on this conquest hath now published in print that I wrote in a corner cried at the crosse that I sent vnder seale If the worste were my disgrace it might be borne with or if all readers had learning this reply might be contemned But seeing this cause is Christs and slips amongest the simple may goe for six pence I will not betray him that hath done so much for mee nor see them deceaued whome he hath bought so dearlie The question is of an article of our faith and pertaineth to all that care what they beleeue The doubt is not whether the article be true but in what sense it is true For seing these articles are not scripture but grounded on the Scripture the question is in what sense Christ is said according to the Scriptures to descend into Hell And now seeing hee is no more a Christian that is ignorant of his faith then he a Carpenter that caÌ„not handle his axe this must needs be a question as necessarie as it is needfull for a Christian to vnderstand what he beleeueth For that which manie saie it sufficeth to knowe that Christ descended into Hell though they knowe not in what sort he was there is as if a farmer shoulde content himself that hee hath a lease of his faâ—me and neuer enquire how long it lasteth nor on what condition hee holdeth By the same reason it is sufficieÌ„t to know that Christ was born and that he suffered and needlesse to seeke how he was borne and what hee suffered Wherefore I haue resolued to stand at my defense and to beare the brunt of these blowes For my weapons are sound Syllogismes my armour Scripture and truth my shield I doubt not of the proofe and feare not the muscate I was brief before as the mediocritie of a private letter requyred My breuitie bred obscuritie and gaue more probabilitie to his inversions and euasions to his insinuations and collections to his making and marring my argumentes in wrong mouldes But now I haue made them my self shaped them on such blockes as will not I hope be easilie wrung out of fashion I haue turned his ordinance some against himself and all from vs so farre as I hope he will dispair himself to hit this marke with that shot Yet because manie mindes are swayed with affection of the man or with conceit of the matter and my name came neuer neere so manie eares as this booke is like to come in mouths I haue resolued to commend it to your honor Hoping that if your name win minds to read the waight of my reasons shall turne the scales and winne heartes to beleeue I haue manie reasons of my choise Your Zeale of Gods house Your loue of Gods glorie Your knowledge in Gods worde And your aestimation in Gods Church amongest such as loue his name sincearly and her Maiestie for his sake vnfainedlie Adde that M. D. Reynoldes the load starre of Oxenford whome your honour hath maintained there to confute the Fryar Bellarmine hauing laid open all the plaites and ript the seames of this controuersie I presume the more to vse your name in this cause which hath beene maintained vnder your countenance If there were any hope that that worke would come out shortlie I would burie my papers in the duste But seeing that time is like to be long and manie in the meane time are deceaved with these bold bragges I haue thought expedient to amaze the adversaries of this doctrine with the light of that sunne when it shall please God to giue it to his Church to set out my little candle wherein I hope there is light inough to disperse the mistes and pearce the cloudes of these Sophismes Thus beseeching God the authour of all honour to augment your honour to your comfort his glorie I commit you to him whose cause I commend to you Your Honours humble Oratour ALEXANDER HVME TO THE READER I Am forced gentle Reader though I hate contention to contend with a contentious man or else having the better end of the staffe to forsake a good cause It is not possible that the Lordes fielde should want tares his net bad fishe or his Church offences but wo to them by whome they rise This wo in controversies pertaines to the one side It is hard and almost impossible that both bee guiltie Wherefore as I am cleare before the Lord so to purge my selfe before thee I will set down how this dissension first beganne The Bishop of Salisburie that last was before his remooving to Yorke tooke order that certaine preachers should keepe lecture on the market daies in the cheefe market townes of his Diocese There is a great market euerie Satterday at a towne called Chippenhame in North Wilshire Within 4. myles of which dwelleth one M. Wisedome a man for integritie of lyfe and exceeding paines in his calling loued of all the godlie hated of the wicked and admired of both This man was one of the prechers appointed to that place and preached there once in a fourtnight or a month I know not which Wherfore on Satterday the 14. day of Februarie or thereabout Anno 1589. expounding in that place the articles of the beleef he deliuered this opinion which I defend concerning the descense of Christ into hel WheÌ„ he had done one Chalfont Vicar of that towne stood vp and protested to the
He gaue out that al Oxford was on his side But when it came to proof hee was faine to promise to his friends and they to others that he would conferre with learned men that hee woulde yeeld to anie truth that could be proued out of the word that he would not deall in that question but as he should be led by such conference or els he had gone as graceles out of Oxford as he came thither Notwithstanding when he was sure of his grace to maintain his credit amongst his friends in the cuntrie he took that question to maintaine in Oxfoord on the Viper day of the Act. howe manfully hee defended it I report me to them that heard him A filius terrae at the lower end of the schoole a thing neuer seene before in that place at that time got a placet of the Doctor of the chyre to brush his skarlet gowne who trimmed it so neatly that if his cheeks wold haue taken the staines of shame he had worne as much skarlet in his face as he did on his back In this story thou maiest see good Reader that my adversary did thrust his hooke in an other mans haruest at Chippinhame that he took not my reply so wel as he promised in the pulpit That he made that publick which I wrote in private That he went farther abroad hunted for contention in Oxfoord That hee plaied at the same bale before in Sarum That he bare the simple in hand that all the learned of the Vniversitie were of his mind That hee fed an vntrue rumour that I had recanted That he printed my privat letter without my consent or knowledg And that to trouble the simple with it he published that in english which I wrote in latine For my part I hope I did nothing but that which the dutie of a Christian required hearing the trueth impugned I did defend it fearing that he had bene deceiued on simplicitie I laboured to reforme him I wrote in faire tearmes to avoide offences I wrote in a strange tongue to keepe it secret And I hunted not for this contention but was drawen into it with faire promises of great thanks wherfore I hope if thou haue but one dramme of indifferencie that thou wiltest wipe this bleamish from my face If I fall nowe into rougher tearmes impute the fault to him that kept not himselfe within the same bounds as I beganne Moreover it is impossible to answere this booke wherein are so many errours in al kinds of learning without tearms of offence The humour also of this adversary is such and his estimation amongest the simple that if I spare him I shall feede it and hinder the trueth Add that it is impossible for me to passe over such vnmanerly disgraces of lies impudeÌ„t lies shameles lies in matters politicall damnable lies in maters theological disagreing with Mathew Mark Luke Iohn Paul Peter Christ himself al the scriptures and never turne the bale comming so faire to the other end of the tennise In some places hee giueth my words a meaning that I neuer meant In some places he giues my arguments a shape that I neuer made In some places hee bends his proofes to things not denied In many places hee slipps the point in controversie and passes by arguments as if he neuer sawe them And in no place answeres one argument like a scholler much lesse a Doctor If I rippe vp these things in their places freely I hope good Reader that thou wiltest rather lay the fault on him that made them such than me that cal them as they are Thus beseeching thee to weigh the cause throughly and to giue every colour his own name I leaue thee to the Lord. Thine and all theirs that loue the Lord Iesus Alexander Hume THE COPPY OF MASTER DOCTORS LETTER SENT to me with his booke GRace and peace There was brought to me in August last an answere made to my sermon preached at Chippenhame the 28. of February by your selfe which for that I was then riding to London I laid vp in my studie till my returne At which time examining it I found that you had indeauored to answere some part of my sermon and some things you left vnanswered Hereupon I had thought to make no replie But â—he I vnderstoode that speeches were blazed abroad that neither I could nor durst answere it I entered into a resolution either to defend my self or els to recant to stay the spâ—eches of the multitude And therefore to satisfie your request haue made a replie wherein I haue proued my former reasons to be firme vâ—controleable and your answer to be weak vnsufficient for that you disagree with Dauid Esay Ezechiel Mathew Peter Paul yea Christ himself as it shal appeare in the conference It is an easie matter to set your selfe against M. Hil. But it is not so easie 〈◊〉 mater to set your self against the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himselfe Hee vvill say to you as he said to Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wherefore I pray you if you vvill proceed in this conference to lay downe the vvhole as I do and consider vvhat vvheâ— and vvhere you vvrite You write of an article of our faith vvhich must be confirmed by Gods word If therefore it shal appeare that you haue gainsaid the Apostles vvordes and meanings vvho vvill beleeue you for an orthodoxall teacher you write in the most perrillous times When therefore the Papists shall see your deceiptfull handling of Gods word they vvill reioice at it Lastly you vvrite against an opinion imbraced in the Church of England alwaies and confirmed by our learned synod and convocation in the Parliament Therefore you must assure your selfe that you cannot cary this cause away without weightie irrefragable reasons I receiued also the last of November an answere in Latine I vvill at successiue houres frame by Gods grace an answer to that In the meane season you may peruse this and see by this replie vvhat good successe you may promise your selfe and your friends in the other Thus desiring God to direct this conference and al other our labours to his glorie I end West burie at my house the last of December 1590. Yours in the Lord Adam Hill TO THE RIGHT WORSHIP-FVL ADAM HIL DOCTOR OF DIVINITIE Vicar of Westburie person of Goosage Prebend and subchanter of the Cathedrall Church of our Ladie in the Citie of nevve Sarum IN May before the Moneth of August you speake of going home to visite my naturall friends I left my reply to your sermon to be delivered you But it was kept backe vppon the considerations which I haue saide in my Epistle to the Reader What other Coppy you receiued in August I cannot tel But wel I am assured I sent you none Howsoeuer you came by that coppy plaine dealing wold haue answered that which I sent you my selfe you tell me that going vp to London you receued an answere to your Sermon pervsing it
also may be on in vs. Two absurdities by implication in the D. reply That to saue and condemne is the office of the God-head onlie and not of the humanity contrary to Mark. 2. 10. Act. 10. 42. and Ioh. 5. 27. Or else the collection out of Augustine will not holde that with mee doth signifie the God-head onelie That the theef prayed not for the presence of the bodie and soule which hee had but for the presence of the diuine nature as if the deuine nature had euer bene absent from the soule and bodie contrarie to the Hypostasis and vniting of the persons HVME his reioynder to the 4. sect OVr reason is if Christ went that same day as hee suffered to Paradice he wēt not to Hell amōgst the damned But he went that same day to Paradice Ergo he wēt not to hel amōgst the dāned For the minor we haue Christ himself witnes Luk. 23. 43. You replied at Chippenhā out of Aug. that this promis to the theef Thou shalt be with me is ment onlie of the Godhead of Christ and not of his soule To that answere I rejoyned saving Augustines reverence whome I honour as farre as it is meet to honour a man what euer you beare your reader in hand to the contrary that this being spoken in the future time and implying an absence at that present from his kingdome could not pertaine to the Godhead being at all times in all places That heere is implyed an absence it is cleare by the theefes sute Remember mee when thou commest into thy kingdome And that this is spoken in the future time it is manifest by Christes answere Then shalt be with mee in Paradice which by a rule of Grammer is as if he had said I and thou shall be in Paradice which is a plaine future tense Nowe heere in this your reply you passe by this testimony of this holie theefe and him in whome was neuer found theft nor guile as if you looked for better witnesses If these be not sufficient I haue no better but I hope the reader will esteeme better of their wordes and count mumme but a meane answere Yet if you were half so worthie your scarlet hood as manie do hope and you do think there was left you more shewe of a probable reply That these thinges be spoken of the Deitie per 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wherfore to preuent your hope if you chance to finde it heereafter I will now teare the bosse from that bukler This figure is neuer applyed to anie text but when some inconuenience in the letter will take no salue but such a corrasiue But this text if it be well handled needeth no such hard plaister Ergo this figure is not to bee applyed to this text Heere neglecting the answere that had anie shew of probabilitie and replying nothing to my argument to make shew of some thing you pick two quarrels to mee in your written copie of which you scrape out one for shame in your print for falsefiing the text The first is that I translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Maister and not Lord. The second that I translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to day but this day Where I pray thee marke gentle Reader that though I were guiltie of both these faultes yet my argument drawn from the future time standeth betweene both these blowes without tip or tap But because it is a hainous matter to peruert the Scriptures I will not confesse a crime so odious being innocent And now M. Doctor if you were a Schoolmaister as you were some time and would seem yet and did beat your Scholler for construing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Maister men might say that you were more worthie of the rod then he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be relatiues in greke as seruus and Dominus in latine and Maister and servant in English so are they vsed Eph. 5. 6. Col. 3. 22. and 4. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nowe then if the english of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be a servant the English of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be a Maister Neither is it denied but that in some case it may be Englished Lord. Some servants haue Lords and all Lords exercise a magisteriall power ouer their vassals As for this place it seemeth to expresse the Hebrew RABBI which was to them a cōmon stile of dignitie as Maister is in English And therfore in my simple vnderstanding so far is it from heresie that this seemeth the fittest English to meete that greeke in this place But you beat mee with two sore arguments the one that Stephanus doeth write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a capitall letter the other that in the 34 of Exod. bee set downe the 13. names of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the first of them You were much beholden to Stephanus If he had chanced to write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a sorting letter you had lost the best argument that euer was bred with your mothers milke and a weapon to cashire our banners But they be not Babilonian as you imagine they are as I said and you see the banners of truth that will not be cashired with a capitall K. As for the 13. names of God I neuer observed onlie so manie neither can I finde just that nomber in that place whither you send mee The first name in that place and the onlie name for any thing that I can see is IEHOVAH the very essential name of God The rest be Epithets not names But tell in good sadnesse M. Doctor is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same in greek that IEHOVAH is in Hebrew I euer took IEHOVAH to come from HAIAH a verbe of beeing to declare that God the cause of all beeings hath no cause of his owne beeing And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I tooke to expresse the rule and commandement which hee doth exercise ouer his creatures But say you the theefe when hee called him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did cal him God If that bee of necessitie then servants obey your maisters will soūd servāts obey your Gods You will not I hope stand to this Divinitie As for the translating of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this day if I was deceaued the greek and latine deceaued mee For seeing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and hodie compounded of hoc die did meete the same I thought I wanted not reason to translat it this day But if this be haeresie how will you couer the same wart on your own nose fol. 20. pag. 1 of your printed sermon here in this same sect also Your reason why it may not be translated this day is that to day is an indefinite this day a particular But this was so subtile in your printed copie that you are ashamed of it good cause had you For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so particular of it self that
sheweth that the body comming out of the graue the soule from hell Christ did conquere both And therefore it is not the deity as you say but the humane nature of Christ y â— did vanquish death Hell Heb. 2. 14. For as much then as the children were partakers of flesh and bloud he also him selfe likewise took parte with them that hee might destroy through death him that had power of death that is the Diuil There fore Hemingius on the Col. 2. saith As on the Crosse he conflicted with the diuill so by the glorious descending into hell resurrection and ascention hee did triumph Therfore these places proue his descending into hell as well as the buriall for the reason of y â— apostle is this Christ cam out of the graue ergo he conquered death and Christ came out of hell ergo he ouer came hell Therefore thus I reason against you that did conquere which did fight but the human nature of Christ did fight ergo it did also conquere is gone vp into heauen to whom the Angels powers and mightes be subiect 1. Pet. 3. 22. Col. 2. 25. phil 2. 9. 10. Eph. 1. 20. 21. 22. Therefore sith all these Scriptures do witnes that Christ as man did triumph and is exalted and hath al power I doubt not but in your next answere you will reforme your iudgement HVME his Reioynder to the 13. sect I Beseech thee good Reader take a little paines heer to mark the honest dealing of this D. Whet I say Christ could not triumph beeing in the bonds of death hee for triumph sets conquer to make them contrarie to my former words that Christ did conquere Hell vpon the crosse It is one thing to coÌ„quere another thing to triumph Pompey conquered the mightie Mithridates in Syria but hee triumphed at Rome amongst his freends that were pertakers of the joy Againe where I say with Augustine that the name of Hell is joined with shame not with honour meaning the name of hell is shamefull not glorious he takes mee to say that the name of hell cannot stand in a sentence with a word of honour quotes against mee 1. Cor. 15 55. Hell where is thy victorie in which place hell and victorie are separated as if hee had saide Hell thou hast no victorie Thirdlie whereas I say that Christ triumphed by the power of his Deitie presenting his victorie to heauen earth and Hell he giues out that I say that the Godhead triumphed and not the humanitie notes in the margent Hume contrarie to Paule and Peter and wils mee to reforme this fault in my next reply This is M. D. arte If his cause were so good as he would haue it seeme he needed not this cunning or if he caried as honest a minde as he did protest in Chippenham pulpit hee would rather performe his promise then seeke such vn-christian-like shiftes to maintaine a bad cause Now to answere his cavils I ask you M. Doct. why you send Christ to hell notwithstanding the three ends that you had noted because those endes were no endes thereof and because the Scripture doeth teach that hee had performed all those ends by the conquest of Hel vpon this crosse You brought texts of Scripture to prooue them and I answered truely that not one of them soundeth anie sillable that way For in all those places there is not a letter neither of his descending into hell nor of his triumphing ouer hell You replie that those texts do proue the resurrection which is not true of all neither and that the resurrection is a knitting of the soule and bodie together and that the knitting of them together was by bringing his soule from Hell this is your principle and his bodie from the graue Now add the conclusion that hee that proueth Christs resurrection proueth his descending into hell If this reason bee good I will yeelde For now if it will holde you haue found a way to proue your opinion by all the Scriptures When Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle it is plaine that he was a man If he was a man he was mortall and died If hee died his soule went to hel this is your vndoubted principle and his bodie to the graue Ergo he that writes that Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle doeth write that hee went to Hell By this hooke you may pull all the Scriptures out at the window and make them proue what pleaseth you HVME his 14. Sect. YOu alledge for confirmation of the second How can a man enter into a strong mans house and spoyle his goodes except first hee binde the strong man Here is not that which you vndertooke to prooue that he descended into hell to binde the deuilles This house whereof here is spoken is to any man of judgments eye by circumstance of the place not Hell but this worlde whereof the deuill had taken possession and polluted many hearts out of the which he was cast by Christ who thereby prooueth himselfe to be stronger then he and not to woorke myracles in the name of Beel-zebub as the Pharises did beare the simple people in hand HIL his Reply YOur interpretation is true and the other true also for Christ did not onlie ouercome the Diuell in y â— world but also in Hell For as Cyrill noteth on this place there was before the comming of Christ much violence taking away the flock of God and carrying them to his owne house wherefore before the comming of Christ the heathen and people of the worlde went into eternall death But Christ hath deliuered both their bodies froÌ„ the graue and their soules from Hell by his death and personall descending into Hell This place is alleadged by one Georgius Princeps Anhaltinus in his learned commentaries on the 16. Psalm which you may read if you please For as Dauid trampled on the face of Goliah so did the soule of Christ trample on Satan in hell and trode on his face and this is noted by the Prophetesse Sibilla as also by the â—eathen Poets whose wordes I haue set down in my sermon at large And therefore Clenard in his grammer giueth this obseruation katelthonta eis adou id est eis otkian tou adou he went down into hell that is into the house of Hell HVME his Reioynder to the 14. Sect. YOu graunt my interpretation to bee true but I will not graunt yours except you bring better warrant then your self and a man that I neuer sawe You will mee to buy him I am not so well purst as to buy him onlie to see this that you quote him for my interpretation is defend-able without him It standeth so sure vpon the text that you confesse it your selfe You would faine shoulder in yours too and make the Scriptures double tongued but I haue learned that one text hath but one true meaning Though
It was the improbabilitie of your opinion that droue a man of so much judgement as Erasmus was to make that doubt But Carlill and Servetus you say do denie it In your printed sermon as you call it you lay your malice more open There you alledge for this antiquitie joined with veritie so there you call your owne opinion all the learned of all ages old and new all the Prophetes and Apostles and sybilles of the heathen all the creatures in heauen earth liuing and dead and lastlie all the Divels thēselues Onelie some possessed you say with Divels as the Iewes Seruetus and Carlill denie it Heere you vtter your choller more plainelie challenging to your owne side all the learned of all ages olde and newe and leauing nothing to your aduersaries but block-isme dol-tisme and diuelish giddinesse But God bee thanked you haue not the disposing of gifts and spirits There be men that denyes your opinion to haue anie ground in the word as farre excelling you in all kindes of learning as you count your self before Sir Thomas your Curat at Goosage and of such zeale and constancy in Gods cause with out regard of wordlie preferments as I pray God a man that can holde two benefices and would haue seauen if he could get them might mend that fault and shew himself as farre from Diuelish giddinesse as they As for Servetus I neuer saw his book which Calvine in his Epistles doth say was printed at Vienna But this I know that he held many grosse errors concerning the Trinitie Humanitie and Deitie of Christ as it is apparent in an Epistle written by the Ministers of Basil to the Syndicks and senate of Geneva As for this question I know not what he held but it is not likelie that euer he touched it And this I am sure of that he was burned by the greatest favorites of our opinion I meane the Genevites Carlill excepting his fault was a man for judgement and learning manie degrees before your self He made a slip indeede as who hath not Though you throwe the first stone at him you are not cleare your self Besides the mani-slips made in this book and other pulpits also you taught on S. Iames his day in Trubridge Anno 1591. If I do wel remember the yeare that weomen did beare children without pain in time of innocencie And because you would be sure not to be mistaken you did repeate it in the after noone in the same tearmes that you spake it in the fore-noone a fault of lesse judgement and learning then Carlils was The Iewes bee enemies to our faith and therefore doe not meete with vs nor acknowledge the truth that we do holde in this article As for the place that they take from you in the Hebrew Psalme and wherupon your choller doth rise I see no cause why they are not to bee beleeued in their owne tougue before all others that haue learned that tongue of them Their opinion of those words if they be taken right doth impeach Christs passion not so much as your own what euer it pleaseth you and Aepinus to dreame and suspect without cause and matter But vpon the Iewes the enemies of our faith Servetus an Hereticke with Carlill whome for his fault not so foule as your owne you boldlie and peremptorlie tearme possessed with a Diuell in this place you would faine lay the firste broaching of our opinion to deceaue the simple I hope you will leaue this craft one day Howsoeuer you may purchesse a plause amongest the ignorant the wise and learned will hisse you out of the schooles if you runne this course as you haue begunne HVME his 17. Sect. THey say that you preached the same at Leycock condemning all men that dissent from you of furie and madnesse as men fighting against the holie Ghost and spurning at a doctrine so profitable so godlie so wholesome and so full of all comfort and solace Heere M. Hill I appeale to your owne conscience what profite what commoditie what health safetie or solace is in your opinion that ours compriseth not Seeing our whole solace and safetie comfort and commoditie consisteth in this that we vnderstand that Christ God and man hath takē vpon him our curse and paying a full ransome for our sinnes vpon the Crosse hath reconciled vs to the loue of his Farher which we had loste by our Father Adam that nowe wee assure our selues of heauen without all feare of Hell What either comfort or commoditie can the sending of Christ into a place where ther was left no comfort nor commoditye adde to this so perfite and full a joy All good men are sorie that you carrying the commendation of zeale and learning haue joined your selfe with M. Chalfont who enterprised this matter so vnaduisedly to say no worse and hath almost shaken the foundation of the Church which God forbid with a dangerous division Your side I confesse hath manie great defendants which doe rather speake for you then confirme your opinion either with scripture or reason I was my self of your opinion till the sway of truth which I haue alwaies rather followed then mine owne fantasies did carie mee to the contrarie I am perswaded that manie of your authors if they had heard the reasons that you heare would neuer haue said as you doe But because the ignorant may not think that you haue all the world on your side Whether you regarde the nomber or the excellencie of the men our cause is nothing inferiour to yours As for M. Wisedome if he had erred it had beene more Christian-like to haue confuted him by priuate conference But seeing his doctrine hath the consent of most of the learned of our times and is so fortressed with Scripture and reason as heere you see it wanteth all excuse of modestie to handle him in open audience before such a multitude in such sort as M. Chalfont did and you confirmed in action though not in words For my part I am and will be on his side till I heere better reason from you Which when it commeth it shal carie me to anie truth that you can proue Further I wil not wagge the bredth of a naile If you can plainelie without cloak and colour confute my reasons and confirm your owne I promise you to turne my song If otherwaies I hope you will bee as good as that word which you past in the pulpite before so manie witnesses If you will satisfie mee you must answere me by writing For spoken words passe faster away then my dull senses can digest the reasons I wrote this in Latine because I wold not haue it vnderstood of the common sort I translated it into Englishe at the sute of a Gentleman that lay heer the last spring That copie by some negligence went farther abroad then I was willing I left it with a freend or two to deliuer it to you when I went in Scotland They conferring together delayed it till my returne least I
haue taught the trueth let not Hume nor Hill iudge but the learned of the â—niversiâ—ies For as Paule saith 1. Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophetes That is the labors of the learned men are to be iudged of the learned The God of patience and consolation giue vs grace that we may be like minded one towards another according to Christ Iesus that we may with one minde one mouth glorifie God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ Rom. 14. 5. 6. To whome bee all honour glorie world without end Amen An answere to the conclusion IF you had been the man that you protested in the pulpite and I promised my selfe when I wrote there was good hope that my answere might haue pleased you as wel as mee But now I see it impossible to please you except I could sing your song And truelie M. D. I could sing your song as soone as anie mans if it did tune as wel with the concent of scriptures as other mens doe But now you must pardon me I am too old to learn your discords The things in my answere which I hoped might haue wrought it favour with you was truth and reason But nowe I see the one is a stranger with you and the other a guest at will If they had beene of that account in your studie and so familiar with you as I hoped my poore answere had not found such hard handling nor vnreasonable railing there as it did You sent it home so ragged rent and torne that it coste mee a moneths work in the cold winter to mend his coat Now I haue quilted it better sent it to you once againe to challenge your promise and to tell you that your plaine reasons heere set downe why you could not recant are nullified and made of none effect like an obligation that is paied at the day appointed Wherefore seeing your argument drawne from the Act. 2. is answered sect 4. and sect 7. And seeing your place out of Syrach is 7. waies defaced sect 11. And seeing I haue proued my consent with the Scriptures in euerie place where I met with that accusation And seeing our sense of the 16. Psalm agreeth with Peter as wel as yours sect 7. And seeing in my answere to Psal 63. I dissent neither from David nor Calvine sect 8. And seeing in my answere to the place of Ezechiel I dissent neither from him nor Esay sect 9. And seeing I haue proued by the worde spirit that men living in the fleshe are not signified sect 12. And seeing now I haue set down your words according to your owne request and seeing your sermon at Chippenhame and this anwsere also hath confirmed mee and seeing mine own answere doth noâ— offer me nor anie of my freends sufficient cause to recant I hope now you are satisfied and that you will satisfie me and the populous congregation to whome you made your solemne promise of recantation in the pulpite at Chippenhame It was not a place to dissemble in and therefore let vs see that you meant as you spake The Lord giue you a hart pliable to his truth ANd heere to end as if M. D. had set the bent of his wit to shewe the vanitie of his worke he maketh the vainest bragge that euer grewe in a vaine heade There was good Reader if thou knowe it not one Ovid of all vaine poets the vainest Amongest manie filthie and vaine workes he wrote a book entituled Metamorphosis In it he sets the edge of all his wits which he had as sharp as euer had anie Poet to the painting of lies in all coloures wherein he shot so neare the marke that in comparison of it the lying legend commes not neere the whetstone by as manie myles as there be wordes in them both The conclusion of this worthie worke M. D. hath pasted to his hel as most agreable to that argument Iamque opus exegi quod nec Iouis ira nec ignis Nec potâ—rit ferrum nec edax abolere vetustas In which Ovid looking back into the worke of his owne wit grew into such loue with the finenesse of his owne conceits that he doubted not to deâ—ie his owne imagined God Iuppiter Now that thou mightest see gentle reader that M. Doctor did thinke of his owne worke as well as Ovid coulde of his hee brusteth out in the same brag In which if he meane Ovids Idole by this Iuppiter it is heathnishe if the true God it is Hellishe That they that vnderstand not the latine may vnderstand it I haue thought not amisse to englishe it as neere the words as I can keeping the english meeter I haue at length made vp this work Which Iuppiter in raging fume With me with fire with edged sworde And cankering age cannot consume To it I may well answere out of another Poet. Quid dignum tanto fert hic promissor hiatis Parturiunt montes nascetur ridiculus mus That is What hath this vaunting bragger done Worth gaping mouth and lips so wide The groning Hill is brought a bed And out a sillie mous doth slide Huic latino carmine sic respondero Nondum est exactum ludit tua gloria ventos Ad sat a licta redi I am renovatur opus In cineres fumosque tui rediere labores Quod louis ignis agit quod Iovis irae facit Aliud Dicere sibellum mireris tartara coelo Foedera Dis stygius cum Ioue nulla colit Aliud Christum post stygios in tristi morte dolores Contendit stygias Hillus adisse domos Complexus vano nugas tricasque libello Provocat insanus tela manumque Iovis Errat fi tutum Iovis ira acheronta putarit Non coquit aeternis iguibus ille stygem FINIS CERTAINE PLACES QVOted out of Master Doctors owne Authours vpon the three principal places where-upon he buildeth this his opinion wherein thou maist see gentle Reader how small cause hee hath to bragge of so many old and new writers I leaning altogether on the word of trueth haue not qâ—â—ted them in the treatise it selfe counting them vnsufficient witnesses in such a cause wherein they haue neither reveilâ—d nor experimented knowledg yet because I would not defraud theâ— of their judgments I haue thought good to set them downe heere The first place is thou vvouldest not leaue my soule in 〈◊〉 nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption vvhere M. Dâ—ctâ—r takes 〈◊〉 to be hell vve the generall condition of them vvhich are departed this life MOLERVS caeterum movent hic questionemâ—â— descensu Christi ad inferos quaÌ„ prudens omitto cum ex hoc lâ—co id satis certo evinci non possit Felinu non deseres ammam meâ—Ì„sepuâ—â—hro id est non destitues me vt anima mea morti concedat Per sheâ—l enim quod sepulchrum significat vt in Psal 6. vers 6. d. xâ— statum conâ—â—tionem mortuorum hoc est inferos scriptâ—ra transnominare