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A82768 The diurnall occurrences of every dayes proceeding in Parliament since the beginning thereof, being Tuesday the twentieth of Ianuary, which ended the tenth of March. Anno Dom. 1628. With the arguments of the members of the House then assembled. England and Wales. Parliament. 1641 (1641) Wing E1526; Thomason E178_12; ESTC R2426 43,658 82

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suppresse both Popery and Arminianisme The professour of the one being open enemies and maintainers of the others subtile and most dangerous undermyners of the Religion of Almighty God established in your Realme and Dominions The truth of which our holy Religion or any part thereof as being sufficiently knowne and generally received here of all the members of our Church except of some Schismaticall persons which have of late yeares taken the boldnesse to broach their contrary corrupt opinions we desire should not be called into doubt or question but howsoever it hath pleased your Majestie to our exceeding great comfort by many Testimonies to declare your owne constant resolution to maintaine the said Religion yet how your gratious purposes are therein crost and into what a miserable condition your whole Kingdome is likely by that meanes to be reduced we shall earnestly endeavour as that which doth nearely concerne the safety and prosperity of your Majesty and people in such sort disordered that the ruine thereby threatned to both may by Gods blessings be prevented being most heartily sorry that these occasions are offered which did thus hinder our occasions in proceeding and therefore aswell for the dignity and necessity of the matter as for that we receive it to be a most-speedy and effectuall way by uniting our hearts and endeavours to dispatch all other businesses of importance particularly those which may seeme more immediately to respect your Majesties profit We pray that our resolutions of preferring this businesse before all other may be acceptable to your Majestie To whom both in the matter and the manner of our proceedings we desire to give all possible satisfaction The Kings Answer to the Declaration of the House of Commons the third of February Ann. 1628. Gentlemen This Answer being somewhat long may by reason require some time to reply unto it since as most of you cannot but judge that this giveth no satisfaction therefore I shall give you some short notes upon it I cannot thinke that whereas you alleadge the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage was brought in against the priviledge of your House that you will offer to take so much priviledge from every one of your members as not to allow them the liberty to bring in any Bill whatsoever although it be in your power when it is brought in to do with it what you thinke good And I cannot imagine your comming together onely by my power and to treat of things that I propound unto you can deny me that prerogative to commend or offer my Bill unto you Though in this particular I must confesse that this Bill was not to have bin offered unto you in my name as that member in your House can beare me witnesse As for the cause of delay in my businesse being Religion here is none of you shall have a greater care for the true preservation of it then my selfe which since it is confessed by your Answer you must either thinke I want power which cannot be or that I am very ill counselled if it be in so much danger as you affirme Though I may say much of this point I will say no more but for all this I shall not stop my eares to you upon this subject so that in forme and matter you transgresse not your limits As for Tonnage and Poundage I doe not so much desire it out of greedinesse of the thing being perswaded you will make no great stop in it when once you take it in hand as out of desire to put an end to these questions that arise betweene Me and some of my Subjects thinking it a strange thing if you should give eare to these complaints and not to take the sure and speediest way to decide them Besides I must thinke it strange that this businesse of Religion should be onely a hinderer of my affaires whereas I am certainly informed all other things goe according to their ordinary course therefore I must still be instant with you that you proceed with Tonnage and Poundage with all diligence not looking to be derned in so just a desire And you must not thinke it strange if I finde you flacke I give you such farther quickning as I shall finde cause Tuesday the 3. of February Anno 1628. Secretary Cooke reported that himselfe and the rest of 〈◊〉 Committee attended his Majesty upon Monday And he said for my part I have used all diligence to 〈◊〉 all the commaunds of my Master and of this House And I find that some exceptions have beene taken at some words by me used when I delivered the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage indeed I used many Arguments in speaking of his Maiesty I said it much concerned him and that his Majesty much desired it but this was mistaken as if his Majesty had commanded it and I required it in his name which I did not intend but to avoid dispute I said not this was an ordinary Revenue but that this Tonnage and Poundage was a meanes to enable his Majestie to set his Fleet to Sea After this Apologie he read his Majesties Answer to the Petition of the Lower House Sir Iohn Elliott Master Speaker I confesse this hath given great satisfaction for our present desires and future hopes and however I finde the mis-interpretation of some and the danger of our Religion yet I finde his Majesties eares open and that if those things be thus as we see that then he is not rightly counselled I am confident we shall render his Majesty an accompt of what he expects But Sir I apprehend a difference betweene his Majesties expression and the expression of his Ministers For Sir that Bill was tendered here in his Majesties name and now we finde that his Majesty disavowes it that he did it not what wrong is this done to his Majesty and to this House to presse things in his Majesties name to the prejudice and distraction of us all I thinke him not worthy to sit in this House Master Speaker This Honourable Person did explaine himselfe that he did not presse it in his Majesties name but onely commended it to your consideration Secretary Cooke I said that in regard of the difference betweene his Majestie and his Subjects my desire was to accommodate it Sir Humphrey May. If you be too quicke to except against the Ministers of his Majesty that serves his houshold it will discourage and stoppe our mouthes whose Service you daily commend Wednesday the 4. of February Anno 1628. M. Kirton The two Bishops named are the maine and great Roots Let us enquire what men they have preferred M. Coriton The Declaration now read came from his Majestie but it is by advise of his Ministers and sure they have not advised the right way That no dispute of Preaching must be one way or other this is to suppresse the truth and yet the contrary professors of it are preferred in the Church to the griefe of all good men Sir Walter Earle Mountague is a principall disturber
to us now M. Coriton Let us not doe Gods worke negligently We receive his Majesties messages with all duty for our proceedings let us so proceed as it may soone conduct us to his Majesties desire Religion concernes the King aswell as us The unitie of this House is sweet especially in Gods cause Let us cry and cry againe for this Let us be resolved into a Committee and presently to debate hereof M. Pymme There are two diseases the one old the other new the old Popery the new Arminianisme There are three things to be enquired after concerning Popery First of the cessation of the execution of Lawes against Popery Secondly how the Papists have beene imployed and countenanced Thirdly the Law bringing of superstitious Ceremonies amongst us For Arminians be advised First that a way be opened for the truth Secondly that by the Articles set forth 1502 and by the Catechisme in King Edward the sixths dayes and by the writing of Peter Martyr and Martin Bucer Wickliffe and others and by the constant profession sealed with the bloud of so many Martyrs Cranmer Ridley and others and by the 36. Article set forth in Queene Elizabeths time and by the Articles set forth at Lambeeth as the Doctrine of the Church of England which King Iames sent to Dorte and to Ireland as the truth professed here and by his Majesties Declaration and Proclamation to maintaine unitie in the settled Religion as appeared by his Proclamation and other courses tending that way which were perversted and abused to the ruine and subversion of Religion which bred a feare of Innovation as also by the preferment which such have received since the last Parliament who have heretofore taught contrary to the truth Then to consider againe for what act these men have beene countenanced and advanced what pardons they have had for false Doctrines what Preachings hath been lately before his Majestie what prohibiting of bookes as have beene written against their doctrine and permitting such bookes as have beene for them It belongs to the duty of the Parliament to establish true Religion and to punish false And howsoever it is alleadged that the Parliament are not Judges in matters of Faith yet ought they to know the established and fundamentall Truths and the contraries unto them For Parliaments have confirmed generall Councels which have not beene received untill they have beene so authorized and Parliaments have enacted Lawes for tryall of Heretiques by Jury The Parliament punished the Earle of Essex for countenancing of Heretiques and there is no Court can meet with this mischiefe but Courts of Parliament The Convocation cannot because it is but a Provinciall Synod onely of the Jurisdiction of Canterbury and the power thereof is not adequate to the whole Kingdome and the Convocation at Yorke may perhaps not agree with that of Cunterbury The High Commission cannot for it hath its authority from Parliaments and the decivati●e cannot prejudice the originall The judgement of Parliament being the judgement of the King and of the three Estates of the whole Kingdome Wednesday the 28 of Ianuary Master Secretary Cooke delivered another Message 〈◊〉 his Majestie viz. His Majestie upon an occasion of dispute in this House about Tonnage and Poundage was pleased to make a gracious Declaration wherein he commended to the speedy finishing thereof and to give a precedencie thereunto And since his Majestie understands the preferring the cause of Religion His Majestie expects rather thankes then a Remonstrance yet he doth not interrupt you so that you doe not trench of that that belongs not to you But his Majestie still commands me to tell you that he expects precedencie in Tonnage and Poundage assuring himselfe he hath given no occasion to put it backe and so you will not put it off M. Long. I cannot but with much sorrow see that we are still pressed to this pount I hoped that those neare the Chaire would have informed his Majestie of our good intentions But we see how unhappy we are still some about his Majestie makes him diffident of us Sir Thomas Edmonds I am sorry this House hath given occasion of so many Messages about Tonnage and Poundage after his Majestie hath given us so much satisfaction You may perceive his Majestie is sensible of the neglect of his businesse We that know this should not discharge our duties to you if we should not perswade you to that course which should procure his Majesties good opinion of you Your selves are witnesses how industrious his Majestie was to procure your gracious Lawes in his Fathers time and since that what inlargement hath he made of our Liberties and still we give him cause to repent him of the good he hath done consider how dangerous it is to alien his Majesties heart from Parliaments M. Coriton When men speake here of neglect of duty to his Majestie let them know we know no such thing nor what they meane and I see not how we doe neglect the same I see it is all our hearts to expedite the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage in due time our businesse is still put backe by their Messages and the businesse in hand is of God and his Majestie Things are certainly amisse and every one sees it and woe be to us if we present them not unto his Majesty Sir Iohn Elliott I have alwayes observed in the proceedings of this House our best advantage is in Order And I was very glad when this noble Gentleman my Country-man gave occasion to stay our proceedings for I feare it would have carried us into a sea of confusion and disorder And having now occasion to present my thoughts unto you in this great and weighty businesse of Religion I shall be bold to give a short expression of my owne affection and in that order that I hope will conduce best to the effecting of your worke and direct our labours to an end To enter into a particular disquisition of the writings of Divines I feare it will involve us in a Labyrinth that we shall hardly get out and perchance hinder that way and darken that path in which we must tread before wee know what other men declared It is necessary we presently lay downe what is the truth and as I presume we come not hither now to dispute of Religion farre be it from the thought of the Church that hath thus long confessed it now to dispute it Shall posteritie thinke that we have enjoyed our Religion fourescore yeares almost and are now doubtfull of the sence God forbid It may be Sir and out of some thing lately delivered I have not unnecessarily collected that there is a jealousie conceived as if we meant to deale in matter of Faith it is our profession this is not to be disputed neither will that truth be receded from this long time held nor is that Truth decayed it is confirmed by Parliament because it was Truth And as this Sir before I shall come to deliver my selfe more particularly give