the Reason is not abated Next what a scandall to Bishops is it that even since the Reformation begun in Edward the sixth his time the Bishops all the Bishops should oppose the restauration thereof in the beginning of Queene ELIZABETH after an interruption of scarce five yeares and an halfe Surely if Bishops can so farre degenerate in so short a time they are hardly to bee trusted with Voting in Parliament for any long continuance especially in an age of such a postatising of the most and warping of the best IX REASON of the House of Commons BEcause Bishops being Lords of Parliament it setteth too great a distance betweene them and the rest of their Brethren in the Ministery which occasioneth pride in them discontent in others and disquiet in the Church ANSVVER This is an Argument from Morall Philosophy which affords no Demonstrations All are not proud that Vote in Parliament nor discontented which are not so imployed This Argument fights onely against their Title of being LORDS which is not the Question at this time And were those Brethren so wise and well affected as they might be they would rejoyce rather that some of their owne profession are advanced to those places wherein they may bee capable upon all occasions of doing good offices to them and to this whole Church EXAMEN The first note is but a peece of mirth which is but little Demonstration of any great Morality in a Cause so serious If all bee not proud that vote in Parliament they have the more cause to be thankfull to God that keepes them humble in so great a temptation Yet usually all be not humble who say they are not proud Proud men of all others will be least knowne of Pride The Reason doth not say that all are proud who Vote but only that such high dignity not meet for them occasioneth pride and I hope it will not bee denyed by a Bishop to be a rule of Divinity as well as of Morall Philosophy that apparent and experienced occasions of sinne must bee avoyded as well as the sinne it selfe Besides this Answerer takes no notice of the maine basis of the Argument which is that this setteth too great a distance betweene the Bishops and the rest of their Brethren And to say truth there was no great Reason why hee should considering the Principles of Prelates which will never suffer them to subscribe to the truth of such a Proposition They never thinke the distance to be too great betweene themselves and the inferiour Clergie And the neerer to parity the neerer to Heresie Yet because this is an opinion not very fit to bee spoken out it was good policy to passe over this branch in silence and it were superfluous to labour in the asserting of that which the Answer doth not gain-say And though all bee not discontented that are not so imployed for some of them are Chaplaines Dependants Expectors Pretenders to the like places and so cannot but rejoyce to see them on Cock-Horse who will they hope one day give them the hand to lift them up behind them Yet there bee many moe who have more cause of just discontent at the infinite clation intolerable pride and boundlesse passions of some of the Bishops who looking up to their owne Lordly Titles doe take it for a part of their honour to looke downe upon their poore brethren with so much superciliousnesse as if they were not brethren but servants yea slaves ad servitutem natos Tiberius Tacit as Hee said of his subiugated fellow Senators of Rome Before this Lording in Parliament came up the old Rule among Bishops was Con. Carthag 4. ca. 34. Episcopus in quolibet loco sedens stare Presbyterum non patiatur But that Canon is now 1240. yeares old and so may well be forgotten Now it is well if he may after long atttendance bee admitted into the presence of a Bishop where he must stand bare headed while the Bishop sits or perhaps lyes along in State And whereas before they were not ashamed to call and honour them as Brethren now they have other names for them Dunce Asse Foole Iack Rogue Scotish spirited rascall any thing that a tongue set on fire of Hell can belch out Lo here the goodly fruit of Episcopacie advanced to the heigth of Peerage in Parliament and wel were it for many of them and their poore Clergie if this were the worst and greatest cause of griefe and discontent administred by the Bishops to many grave Godly painefull peaceable Ministers whose heavie burdens are presented in multitudes of Petitions to the present Parliament and therefore I forbeare to relate them But where it is said that this Argument of the House of Commons fights only against their Title of Lords the Answer misreports it For it marcheth not fighteth against them as Lords of Parliament now if to be a Lord in Parliament and to Vote as Peeres there be not the same thing the Answer is worthy of Consideration otherwise it can expect no entertainment but neglect The House of Commons did purposely use this phrase here because the very Reason it selfe is grounded partly upon the Title yet so as that they consider a Bishop as a Peere admitted to Vote in Parliament These two are convertible and equipollent expressions He is a Lord of Parliament Ergo he Votes He Votes in Parliament Ergo a Lord of Parliament And this Lordship in Parliament is that which lifts him up so high above his brethren as makes him to be and they to fare the worse all dayes of his life Wherefore to conclude all such is my folly that I know not what wisedome or good affection it were for those Brethren to rejoyce much to see any of their owne Profession to bee exposed to so great temptations by being advanced to that place which is so farre from rendring them capable or apt to doe good offices to either Church or State as that it makes them more unapt unto and uncapable of doing any good at all either in Parliament Pulpit or Consistory For it puts them out of their Calling unapts them for the proper worke of it and is not seldome secretly followed by the just judgment of GOD with a spirit of coldnesse and benumdnesse of those excellent parts wherewith many of them before abounded with a spirit of giddinesse in point of judgment with a spirit of contempt of those Ordinances which formerly they prized in point of affection with a spirit of pride over their brethren in point of behaviour with a spirit of persecution of the power of godlinesse in point of jurisdiction and with a spirit of opposition to the perfect Reformation of this whole Church See the close of last precedent Answer in point of Legislative power in Parliament ERGO Bishops ought not to Vote in Parliament FINIS Pag. 2. l. 28. after acceptat there should be a short line thus as implying some words omitted which in the Author be interposed p. 4. l. 7. r. indicare p. 26. l. 5. r. avocation p. 34. l. ult r. 18. ibid. in Mar. dele 1317. r. M. 17. p. 63. l. 14. r. could p. 75. l. 25. r. nati
in 25. Edward 3. for Bishops intermedling in Civill Affaires because it is there said That the holy Church of England was founded in the estate of Prelacy within the Realme of England by the Kings Ancestors and other of the Nobility to inform them and the People of the Law of God and to make hospitalities almes and other works of Charity in the places where the Churches were founded c. and for this end their Lands revenues c. were assigned by the said founders to the Prelates c. And the said Kings in times past were wont to have the greatest part of their Councel for the safeguard of the Realme when they had need of such Prelates and Clerks so advanced c. This last Clause doth only prove de facto that so it was used but doth not legitimate the use all stories of those times being full of complaints against the mischiefes which arose out of it And that very Statute declares the prime end of advancing the Clergy into an Hierarchy was to counsell the Kings and others in the Law of God not in Civill and Martiall matters And so far is such intermedling in Secularibus from being countenanced by the Lawes of this Kingdome that by the common Law which is the most fundamentall Law of the Realme all in holy Orders are so carefully exempted from such incumbrances that if any Clergy man happen to be put into a temporall Office he must upon the pleading of his Orders have a Writ awarded him out of the Chauncery to discharge him Regist 187.6 Therefore it was farre from the intention of the first Founders of our Hierarchie to imploy them in Civilibus but only to make use of their counsell in Spirituals There is yet one thing more much insisted upon by some of the Prelates to prove the lawfulnesse of their intermedling in Secular Matters And it is a passage of Saint Augustine De opere Monachor Cap. 29. where hee saith It were farre more profitable for him to spend his time in reading and praying Quà m tumultuosissimas perplexitates causarum alienarum pati de negotiis secularibus vel judicando dirimendis vel interveniendo praecidendis 1 Cor. 6. quibus nos molestiis idem afflixit Apostolus non utique suo sed ejus qui in eo loquebatur arbitrio Ergo say some Bishops they have warrant so to doe yea a command from the Apostle and from the Spirit of God himselfe To this it may be answered 1. That in that very place St. Austin doth bemoane this as being Ecclesiarum quibus servit consuetudo the custome of those Churches and the practice began after Constantine made a law to warrant it for S Aust there saith that Paul never submitted to it nay rather he gave order to make them Iudges that were meanest and had least to doe And albeit St. Austin there addes that this toyle he undertooke non sine consolatione Domini in spe vitae aeternae ut fructum feramus cum tolerantia Yet this was not spoken as rejoycing in the imployment but as bearing it with more cheerefulnesse in hope of eternall life after it 2. As for the imployment it selfe he complaines violenter irruptum est non permitter ad quod volo vacare ante meridiem post meridiem occupationibus hominum teneor Epist 110. Possidon in vit Augustini ca. 19. and Possidonius that lived with him many yeares beares him witnes that hanc suam a melioribus rebus occupationem tanquā angariam deputabat Therefore it was that in Ep. 110. he desired the people that they would suffer him to put over all those businesses to Eradius whom he had chosen to be his successor in his Bishoprick which when the people had granted the good old Father presently unburdened himselfe Ergo fratres quicquid est quod ad me perferebatur ad illum perferatur ubi necessarium habuerit consilium meum non negabo auxilium 3. If this be not enough let me answer Bishops Treat Of Christian Subjection and Antichristian Rebellion par 3. by a Bishop viz by Bishop Bilson who being pressed with that place of Saint Austin de opere Mon by the Popish crue under the name of Philander a Iesuite returnes this answer under the veile of Theophilus an Orthodoxe Divine a Truth it is the Bishops of the Primitive Church were greatly troubled with those matters * And I have shewed before upon what occasion Prefat in Dial. not as ordinary Iudges of these causes but as Arbiters elected by consent of both parties And I could requite you with Gregories own words of the same matter in the same place quod certum est nos non debere which it is certaine we ought not to doe But yet I thinke so long as it did not hinder their Vocation and Function though it were troublesome unto them they might neither in charity nor in duty refuse it because it tended to the preserving of peace and love amongst men And the Apostle had licensed all men to choose whom they would for their Iudges no doubt meaning that they which were chosen should take the paines to heare the cause and make an end of the strife But it is one thing to make peace betweene brethren as they did by hearing their griefes with consent of both sides and another to claime a judiciall interest in those causes in spite of mens hearts Thus he and how home this comes to our Bishops that will needs still contest and strugle to retaine their Votes in Parliament in all civill causes whatsoever undervaluing all the Reasons of the House of Commons and contrary to the just desires of the whole body of the Kingdome I need not use more words to declare To finish this point All that hath beene said against the Clergies intermedling with Civill and Temporall affaires other than for necessary and comfortable provisions for Lively hood drives to this Conclusion that if it be so great an hinderance to the exercise of the Ministerial Function to be imployed in temporall matters which are but ordinarie it must needs be a farre greater hinderance to that holy calling for Bishops to Vote in Parliament because they cannot doe it as it ought to bee done without so much skill and dexterity in secular affaires of all sorts that possibly can come within the debate and resolution of a Parliament as must needs take up the greatest part if not the whole of a mans time study strength and abilities bee they never so great and many to fit him for that great service altogether beside I might adde inconsistent with his Calling of the Ministery 2. ANSWER to the first REASON It is propter majus bonum Ecclesiae EXAMEN Cujus contrarium c. What good they have done in Parliament for the Church unlesse to uphold the Synagogue of Rome let all Histories speake that have taken any notice of the acting and carriage of matters of Religion debated and Voted in
Parliament since the first entrance upon a Reformation in this Kingdome It is true that in the Reigne of King Henry the eight one Cranmer was active in the cause of God against those sixe bloudy Articles which cost so many their lives But of all the Hierarchie not one was found to joyne with him but all opposed and he alone for three dayes together was faine to stand to it and at length by the malice practice and potency of the Prelates hee was overcome and the cause carryed against him Acts and Monuments par 2. page 1037. edit 1610. This was in the yeare 1540. When about foure or five yeares after Cranmer in two severall Parliaments used his best endeavours to get that bloudy Law repealed and had before hand as he thought drawne over to his side the Bishops of Worcester Chichester and Rochester who promised to assist the cause in Parliament yet when it came to the tryall all the Bishops forsooke him and the cause againe In so much as the King himselfe and the Nobility stood to him so farre as to give way to a moderating of the former Law when the Bishops would not abate the least part of the rigour thereof Antiq. Britanni in Cranmero In King Edward the sixth his Reigne it is true a blessed Reformation was happily begun but by whom By the Bishops No verily Cranmer only excepted For he and the Protector were the men that advised the King and went through with the worke As for the great Bishops Gardiner of Winchester and Tonstall of Duresme Bonner and others they served to fill prisons and diverse ran away And in all Letters of the Lords for more particular Reformation it was onely Canterburie and the Nobilitie that did promote the businesse See Acts and Monuments in King Edward the sixth But in Queene Maries dayes who but Bishops for the Masse and all the grosse body of Popery both in Convocation and Parliament Cranmer and the rest of the Orthodox Bishops were soone persecuted and at length committed to the fire while the Popish Prelates being restored to their places spared no diligence to promote Popish Idolatry throughout the Kingdome and that by their Votes in Parliament whereby they might more plentifully shed bloud by a Law When GOD delivered this Kingdome from those Marian flames and set up blessed Queene Elizabeth it cannot be denyed but that in the Bill for restoring all ancient Jurisdictions to the Crown and for reestablishment of Religion and ejection of Popery the Lords Spirituall are named in the Act because the bill being carryed by the greater number of Votes the dissenting party which was the lesse are included in the rest and it becomes the Act of all in common repute and esteeme of Law But little thankes to the Bishops for any of that Reformation which was then restored We finde the Bishops of Winchester Litchfeild Chester Carlile and Lincolne appearing in open defence of Popery while that Parliament was sitting Act and Monuments par 2. page 1619. edit 1610. But these were not all that stood for that cause Witnesse the deprivation of Heath Arch-Bishop of Yorke Tunstall Bishop of Durham White of Winchester Thyrlby of Ely Watson of Lincolne Baines of Coventry and Litchfeild Bourne of Bath and Wells Christopherson of Chichester Oglethorp of Carlile Scot of Chester Morgan of Saint Davids beside Bonner imprisoned Pates of Worcester Goldwel of Saint Asaph in exile for the same Pseudo-Catholike cause None of all which can with any probability of reason bee imagined to have Voted for the restoring of the Truth they being by vertue of that Statute deprived for opposing the Truth And albeit I know nothing but by heare-say of the generall carriage of Bishops in Parliaments sithence and so doe not charge them yet how often they have with-stood bills against Non-residency * In 31. Elizabeth a Bill against Non-residents passed the House of Commons being in the other House greatly approved of much spoken for by many of the Temporall LORDS yet through the earnest labouring of the Bishops it could have 10 passage there Another Bill for reforming Ecclesiasticall Courts in King James his time passed till it fell among the Bishops and there was stayed Pluralities and other evils and defects in the Reformation of Religion and of their Courts the world hath beene sufficiently informed insomuch as the House of Commons hath already declared and resolved at a Generall Committee of the whole House Iune eleventh 1641. That the Bishops have beene found by long experience to bee great hinderances of a perfect Reformation and of the growth of Religion En majus bonum Ecclesiae produced by the Vote of Bishops in Parliaments And as their voting in Parliament in matters of Religion is ad detrimentum potius quam ad utilitatem Ecclesiae so it cannot bee imagined how their Votes there in Civilibus should conduce more ad majus bonum Ecclesiae Except the wilfull and incorrigible continuing in a course forraine and contrary to their proper Calling and such as being duely performed is a very great hinderance to the exercise of their Ministeriall Function as hath beene before declared can redound to the greater good of the Church which they seldome looke after unlesse to receive the profits of it and to plague those who are profitable in it that themselves may more splendidly and securely in Parliament and every where else Lord it over the whole heritage of God 3. ANSVVER to the first REASON The Apostles unnecessarily put themselves to more hinderances to worke for their livelihood Acts 20.24 1 Thessalo 2.9 2 Thess 3.8 EXAMEN Vnnecessarily Boldly spoken and were I sure that one of my fellowes or equalls had written it I should without breach of good manners pronounce it saucinesse little short of blasphemie Was it not necessary that the Apostles should have a livelihood And was the procuring of it by labouring with their hands although I know none but one after CHRISTS Ascension that was put unto it to avoyd the oppression of poore converts or to prevent scandall among either poore or rich converted or unconverted an unnecessary thing This may bee a straine of Policie passable enough among Spirituall Lords of Parliament but was never knowne to bee good Divinity among such as desire to approve themselves unto GOD. I have bin taught that Necessarium is put sometimes pro utili pro congruo convenienti as well as pro naturali seu debito or pro violento sua coacto And I have learned among the Schoole-men that there is a necessitie not only absolutè simplicite sic dicta but also ex suppositione conditione when a thing not simply necessary in it selfe becomes such in regard either of end meanes circumstances or otherwise When Saint Iohn 1 Epist 2.27 tells the Christians yee need not that any man teach you was his writing to them to instruct them further unnecessary When Saint Pauls abiding in the flesh was more needfull
suppose the next thing too that Bishops are in the same manner there for their successors in the Land and Honour that pertaine to their places as the Earles and Barons are for their successors in their owne Lands and Honours For is there no difference betweene Successors that usually have no naturall legitimate relation to the present Bishops in any degree of consanguinity or affinity and those of Earles and Barons which are their proper heires at Law and may claime and must enjoy the same Honour which their Ancestors have held before them if not tainted in bloud No difference betweene those that can no more bee denyed place in Parliament without confusion of all than the fundamentall Lawes of the Kingdome and the government thereof can be turned up by the Roots and those who first crept in by favour to serve a Conquerors turne by taking off their dependance upon the Pope and fastening it upon himselfe and can derive no higher for sitting as now they doe in the House of Peeres than an Act of Parliament if so high and therefore by another Act of Parliament may be discharged Now where the difference of the Title is so great between a Bishop and an Earle or Temporall Baron both to their Lands and Honours and Votes in Parliament I much feare that the Nobility and Temporall Lords will hardly in their House allow this doctrine which yet is fitter for them to consider of than for me to confute and therefore I leave it only with this that if the Lords shall find cause to reject this position as heterodox and deny the Bishops to be in Parliament for their successors in Lands and Honours in the same manner or upon as good and immoveable title as the Nobility be for theirs then the Reason of the House of Commons doth stand yet good as to Earles and Barons and it is no way fit that Bishops should have the same Legislative power over the Honours inheritances persons and liberties of Earles and Barons as these have or ought to have over those of Bishops As for Bishops holding their Lands in Fee simple I can say little to it because my skill is very simple in Tenures Only I have beene told that Fee-simple Littletons Instit l. 1. c. 1. 5. 1. Cokus in Little ibid. Sect. 5. is called in Latine foedum simplex idem est quod haereditas legitima vel hareditas pura So that to speak properly Every man that hath a lawfull estate in Fee-simple hath it either by descent or purchase neither of which wayes for ought I know can the Bishop derive his Title But perhaps in some sense wherewith I am not acquainted the Bishops may bee said to hold in Fee-simple as the word may be taken in a larger and lesse proper acception Viz. Because he holdeth Lands in fee in right of his Church but this is not properly Fee-simple because he holds them not in his owne right and the right he hath in them dyes with him as to his heires But I have heard that ordinarily he that is seized of any Lands in Fee in right of his Church his tenure is either that which the Lawyers call Tenure per divine service when the Lands are given upon condition that the Donee performe some divine Service certaine expressed in the Gift or the Lands to revert or else it is * Littl. Institut li. 2. cap. 6. en Frank annoigne when Lands are freely given without any divine service certaine to be performed for them And further albeit the Bishops are usually said to hold of the King per Baroniam yet this haply may be meant rather of the Honour affixed to their place which works it up to a Dignitie than of the Lands pertaining to them which they also hold in Frank almoigne as well as the inferiour Clergy Sir Henry Spel. Not. in Concil v rolam sub Ossa Hereupon it is that in our Municipall Lawes our Bishops for that they enjoy their meanes and maintenance by the bounty and Almes of Kings are called Barones Regis Eleemosynarij The Kings Lords Almesmen or Barons of the Kings Almoignry as the Almesmen at WINDSOR are called The Kings poore Knights and the Reason is rendred out of Ranulphus de Glanvill that famous Iudge in Henry the second his time quia eorum Baroniae sunt de Eleemosyna Domini Regis Antecessorum ejus De Legib. Angl. l. 7. ca. 1. in Calic Because their BARONIES are of the Almes of the KING and his Ancestors Which being so my conceit is that what Reason so ever they have on their side yet at this time especially this free and high language that they holding their Lands in Fee-simple may with as good Reason Vote in the Honours inheritance persons and liberties of others as others may and doe in theirs might have well beene forborne without prejudice to their Cause For if Almesmen bee admitted to Vote in Parliament it will bee their wisedome I take it not to bee so much elated as to enter into termes of comparison with the highest not excepting their Benefactors or Founders themselves even in one of the highest points of honour and power 2. ANSWER to the fifth REASON Many Peeres have beene created for their lives only and the Earle of Surrey for the life of his Father who yet voted in this House EXAMEN But have any except Bishops beene created Peeres for life or otherwise that were not men of great estates and inheritance or at least of extraordinary birth and sufficiency Of such eminency were the Earles of Surrey But when you mention an Earle of Surrey whom do you meane Is it intended of the Noble Family of the Howards descended from the Mowbrayes If of these you will hardly finde any such that being an honour not so frequently communicated in former times Indeed I I find it mentioned that Iohn Lord Mowbray Sonne of Iohn Grand-child to Thomas Duke of Norfolke was by King Henry the sixth in the life time of his Father created Earle of Surrey and was after his Fathers death Duke of Norfolke but that he was a Peere of Parliament for or in the life of his Father I finde not And I have beene told by a Noble branch of that Renowned stemme and now a Peere that there was no Earle of Surrey made a Lord of Parliament upon such termes But whether so or so it matters not much this being but one single instance And how ever you may perhaps instance when you please in others not so highly descended who have had the honour to Vote as Peeres in Parliament yet they were such whose interests in the publike and share in posterity must needs weigh downe any of those that the House of Commons desire to have removed out of the Lords House For however diverse of them bee well lined with wealth yet the House of Commons are in Parliament to looke upon them as the Lawes doe to wit as upon Almesmen that are but
for a monument to the eternall infamie of the Composers of it and factors in it Now the Bishops do or ought Nulli sacerdoti liceat Canones ignorare dist 38 cap. Nulli to know that if a Iudge be once taken tardy and guiltie of corruption and wicked judgement hee is for ever presumed to bee corrupt and therefore unmeet to bee trusted in another Court any more For it is in Maxime both in the Civill and Canon Lawes which holds in all Lawes Reg. juris 8. Semel malus semper praesumitur esse malus And this presumption is not onely praesumptio hominis or praesumptio facti but praesumptio juris too quia jus sic praesumit ex facto saith the Glosse upon that rule So that if Bishops have thus encroached upon the consciences and properties of the Subject in Convocation as t is now declared they have they are unmeet and unworthy to bee trusted any more with Votes in Parliament where they may doe as much again or more if opportunity bee offered and therefore this Reason of the House of Commons is invincible But have they not done as much in Parliament also What meant the Statute of 2. H. 4.15 against the Lollards procured by Thomas Arondel Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and the rest of the Prelates against diverse of the Nobilitie for they are not at all mentioned in that Act What meant their struggling for the sixe Articles in 31. H. 8. 14. first concluded in their Holy Synod in spite of CRANMERS teeth What meant their Conspiracy to pull downe Religion in 1. Mar. after it had happily in great part beene reformed in King Edward the sixth his time What need we any further proofe Habemus confitentem this Answerer himselfe hath confessed as much in the close of his Answer to the next Reason following where he roundly acknowledgeth the opposition of all the Bishops to the Reformation of Religion in 1. Eliz. But I must on to the rest of the Answer ANSWER Nor yet at the Votes of such Bishops there as are not guilty of that offence That is of passing such Canons in Convocation EXAMEN This Exception may save the Credits of those men who were present and protested legally against such illegall and wicked proceedings so as they may have peace within and without too if after by post-fact they contracted not the guilt of Accessories by administring those Canons But yet in the account of Law and in the estimate of Law-makers before whom such lewd Canons bee arraigned the Bishops doe know that it is another Maxime and Rule in Law Refertur ad universos quod publice fit per majorem partem That is justly imputed to all that was publikely done by the Major part If they who dissented not did not protest in due forme of Law or absented themselves because they disliked the businesse but had not the courage and fidelity to oppose it as became their duty they are justly involved within the number of the guilty at least so far as to be held unworthy to be any further trusted to Vote either in that place or in an higher much more because through negligence incogitancy cowardise and the like they did not their utmost to helpe the Lord against the mighty and to oppose those wicked Canons with all their might I passe on to the next branch of the Answer ANSVVER Nor need the Subject to be discouraged in complaiing against the like grievances though twentie sixe of that Order continue Iudges For they shall not Vote as Iudges in their own Cause when they are legally charged EXAMEN What encouragement shall one or some few private subjects hope to finde when the whole House of Commons by the labouring of some Prelates lesse in number than twenty sixe cannot get passage for a necessary Bill grounded upon so many solid and weighty Reasons against the Votes of Bishops in Parliament And who can be assured that hereafter they shall not vote as Iudges in their owne Cause when even now de facto they have already done it Perhaps there is a secret in that clause When they are legally charged which I cannot discover But surely I thinke the meaning of it to be that the Bill came not home to a legall charge that might exclude them from votcing in it because the House of Commons would needs be so civill towards the present Bishops as not to name them in the Bill whereby not their persons but their Order onely was charged And if this were the error upon which the first Bill miscarried the House of Commons are wise enough to make use of this close wipe of the Answerer and to finde out a way to avoyd the like fault in the next The Answerer goes on ANSVVER And if they should vote what were that to the purpose when the Lay-Peeres are still foure to one EXAMEN If the Lay-Peeres as he termeth them were tenne to one yet if but a few of those twentie sixe Bishops have a mind to be active which in their own cause is not unlikely they know wayes enough how to draw over to their party Noble and ingenuous natures apt to be more taken with reverence of their function and gravity than willing to suspect their ends or to dispute their grounds how often so ever themselves or their Ancestors have beene circumvented and misguided by them But he will give you instances to the contrary which may put all out of feare ANSVVER The Bishops assisted with a double number of Mitred Abbots and Priors could not hinder the Lawes made gainst the Cou t of Rome the Alien Cardinals and Prelates the Prov sors the Suitors to the Popes Consistory under Edw. 3. Ric. 2. and Hen. 4. much more may those emergent exorbitancies of the Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction be soon curbed redressed in this inequality of votes betweene the Temporall and Spirituall Lords EXAMEN The Bishops so assisted could not hinder Nay rather they could not hinder the Lawes made against the Pope Strangers For the more the Pope encroached the more our Bishops smarted under those Vsurpations and groaned under the many continuall heavy taxes whereby all the Clergy of England were impoverished in their Estates and the Bishops much curbed in their Iurisdictions He should shew himselfe an egregious Ignaro to the Stories of those times that should require Instances hereof there being so many much elder than Edward the third Matthew Paris and sundry other Historians abound herein Therefore I will content my selfe with only one instance in the reigne of Hen 3. In his time the exactions pollings of the Clergy and Kingdome were found to be yearly 60000 Antiq Britan. ex Mat. Paris in Bonifac. Markes which at that time exceeded the Kings owne Revenues No benefice or dignity belonging to the Nobility Clergy or Gentry not many pertaining to the King himselfe could bee void but the Popes Provisors were ready to seize on it instantly for some of his Creatures Italians and other