Forefathers who never till then were admitted unto the sight of God he rose and instructing his Church 40. dayes in it's sight ascended into heaven whence after ten dayes he sent the Holy Ghost himself remaining there till the day of judgment when he will return to take accompt of his benefits he hath bestow'd upon us The Catechist ought to note out of the discourses pass'd of how sublime and unparalell'd an essence our God is who by his Nature which is purest most refin'd Quintessence of Substance or Being added to his perfections of Knowing and Loving himself obliges us to affirm truly of him thas he has in one Nature three Persons which is highest contradiction in the perfect est of all Creatures existent or even possible Also how God was so good as our nature being imperfect of it self supernaturally to help it with incomparable graces and gifts Secondly how death Sickness and all other mischiefs being excluded by God crept in by man's own fault and the procuring of the Devil How quickly our nature grew to that extremity that of the whole world hardly eight men were found righteous And presently again not five men in five Cities What a perpetual care God â—â—d of the family of Abraham by promises miracles punishments rewards yet could not by those means keep them from sin and damnation What 't is for God to be made Man the eternall impassible essentially-blisfull to become a child the most tender passive of all creatures and franght with miseries and griefs See his life nothing different from ours unless that it was more stuff'd with woes from one end to the other in poverty subjection contradiction affliction and in the end and last act the example of all indignity that human wit could invent and the shape of man endure think how all this was suffer'd for our sakes he knowing every one for whom he suffer'd and of so great a number excluding none for whom he did not undertake these pains as if there were no other as freely as the Sun shone on Adam when he was alone no less then upon the millions that now be And out of all these considerations let him strive to raise the Catechumen to admiration and love of so great Goodness a full resolution to make use of so many and so powerfull means to advance himself in virtue which is the fruit of all that went before SIXTH CONFERENCE M. HAving now learn'd that there is a God his properties how he created man how he conducted him through so many ages till the coming of himself into the world in the second Person of his blessed Deity Having also understood the oeconomy of his sacred Humanity till his bitter passion glorious resurrection wonderfull ascension and gracious sending of the Holy Ghost which was the first effect and chiefest of his whole peregrination It follows to consider the End of all which was the stating of mankind in that perfection to which he intended to conduct him Now then Child can you tell me what was the intention of Christ's coming S. Sir you have told me already that 't was to redeem Mankind from the deluge of sin wherein he was drown'd by the fall of Adam and give him a state by which he might attain to Paradise M. I but what is the immediat step by which a man comes to Heaven S. That also me thinks I have learn'd to bee the Love of God above all things For you told me this was Sanctity and I know we call those Saints who either are in Heaven or in the right way to it M. Well said But I would have you shew me that the Love of God makes a man go to Heav'n and because you cannot without help hearken a little unto me The Good of Heaven consists in seeing God Almighty not with the eyes by which you walls and trees and sun and stars but with the eyes by which you know you are this day and neither yesterday nor tomorrow by which you know you must have been yesterday yet it may happen you may nor be tomorrow and other Truths or things of this quality which the least of you is capable of Now he that loves God above all things especially if he have done it long cannot chuse but desire to know and see him whom he loves so much Wherefore when he dies and has no more any distraction by his senses he is wholy set upon that object and so extreamly miserable unless he can obtain it wherefore if God be not hard-hearted as Goodness it self cannot be what remains but that he must needs let himself be seen by him which is to be in heaven And this a Divine would tel you were to determin God of necessity to the giving of Bliss as the putting of all second causes requisit to the making a man determins him to the infusion of the rational soul But we must not be so learned Do you know how the Divines or rather all Christians do ordinarily term this Love of God S. Yes Sir I think this is the vertue they call Charity by which we love God for himself our neighbours for him and for both their sakes do all the rest of our actions and so order our whole lives to the service of God M. 'T is well said but can you tell what reason you have to love God S. Yes For seing we naturally love that which is good as good meat good drink good cloaths c. and God is Algodness there can be no doubt but we have great reason to love God Besides he hath done us many singular benefits or rather hath given us all we have by which we know he loves us and for both these causes is to be loved by us M. Very well and you may add that we are like him being made wholy to his Image and things that are like one another are apt to love one another as we see all creatures love their own kind But seeing you call this Charity and know there 's a second part thereof which is to love your Neighbour or all other men as your self know you why you are to do so S. Sir not wel M. Why do you not see that all knives are to cut hammers to knock and therefore who would have a hammer to cut or knife to knock were out of â—â—ason So likewise al men being of one Nature are for one â—nd and fit for the same things He therefore that would wish one thing for himself because 't is fit for him and not wish the like to his neighbour were very unreasonable And if he wishes the like to his Neighbour as to himself he loves him as himself But tell me now he that loves God has he not reason to hope he shall see God S. Yes Sir since 't is necessary that who loves God shall see God no doubt but he has reason
Priests and Ministers and so to build his Church included the creating all these And whoever impugns these impugns Christ and seeks to destroy his Church But can you tel me how this is known that Christ set Bishops to govern his Church S. I who know nothing of the command how should I tell you M. Do you not see Bishops over al the Christian world ask who made them you shal find others who now are dead and that their fore fathers told them they had receiv'd order to do so from Christ and his Apostles by perpetual succession And I pray you have you stronger motives to receive the blessed Trinity Incarnation and Sacraments From this follows if any for ambition or indirect ends should believe or â—each that Bishops are not necessary in the Church of God he is an absolute Heretick as if he beleev'd or taught there were no Trinity Incarnation Blessed Sacrament oâ— holy Scripture But are there no degrees in the people or Subjects correspondent to these of the Hierarchy S. Yes sure there must be severall Classes answerable to those of the Clergy as persons employing their spirits some in the Purgative some in the Illuminative and some in the Unitive way But who they are I know not M. You must distinguish them according to their states The first are such as live in the world whom wee ordinarily cal the People or Lay-men The other two sorts are of Religious persons One of these who dedicate their lives to works of mercy as hospital-keepers and the like The other who addict themselves to Contemplation But know you wherin these differ from the ordinary people S. By the three vows of Poverty Chastity and Obedience By Poverty they forsake riches honours and such pleasures as follow them By Chastity the comfort of Marriage And by Obedience they subject themselvs to the direction of a Superiour for their instruction in spiritual life M. Can you tel mee which among divers Religions is the perfectest S. No Sir But I would gladly learn if peradventure it be my own fortune or of some of my friends to have a mind to Religion M. Attend then Religious life is a wâ—y to seek perfection which perfectly consists in loving God and in nothing but in order to God The means they take is abstinence from whatever may draw their love to any other thing and to think often of God If then we consider this later part which is the chiefest so the most contemplative are the best which are ordinarily thought among us to be the Carthusians But if we consider the other part then those that live in more austerity are the perfectest among which I wil not determin the controveâ—sy because here are many Competitours onely this I add that this want of corporal commodities is to be judg'd not by Metaphysical obligations but by real practise And so whoever is best those who have no real practice of corporal wants must needs be the worst in the nature of Religious however for their particular lives they may be Saints In these three Conferences the Catechist has occasion to recommend the use of Mass Sacraments to his Catechumen and also to let him understand which be the Superiours instituted by Christ over his Church to whom he ows duty which vertuous and good men to whom he ows respect and honour that so he may give every one his due FIFTEENTH CONFERENCE S. SIr you have all this while commanded my answers let me now beg leave to offer you some of my doubts I have heard talk of an other Hierarchy of Angels if I wel remember wherof methinks you speak not M. I do not intend to tel you al I know but what appertains to you to know As for the orders of Angels you may without inconvenience be ignorant of them til it shall please God to bring you to the sight of them 'T is sufficient for you to know that God has ordain'd Angels to govern us to every one one for our Saviour tels us that the Angels of the little ones see the face of his heavenly Father it has been the constant faith of Christians that every one has an Angel for his Governour or Guardian to whom you may do wel often to recommend your self S. Since you are faln upon that point I pray what obligation have I to pray to Angels and Saints and how can they hear me having no ears nor other corporal senses by which to come to the knowledge of my prayers M. If we remember Angels and Saints are in perfect bliss and happiness we shall easily discover that all service or ho nour done to Saints by us is not for their good but for ours And so the keeping holy dayes building Churches and setting up Altars unto God in memory of Saints is to be moderated according to the utility which redounds to the Church by it and in proportion the prayers or what sort of devotions soever are in private us'd to their honours are to be govern'd by the same principle Now the utility redounding to the Church is that wheras human nature is easily weary of being carri'd above it self by prayer and other spiritual exercises and on the other side delighted with variety and novelty the weariness of devotion is help'd and in part remedy'd by the variety which is artificially order'd in it Again mens humours and states of life being so diverse it happens wel that every one may have examples in his own kind to affect him and many times they make a greater profit by such an affinity to their own condition than by a great deal of preaching or good counsel By this you may see what obligation there is to honour Saints and pray to them namely when the Church for the common good of her children prescribes it then that 's to be done whatsoever she commands Otherwise as far as particular persons find need or help by the variety of devotion so far they do very well to follow it S. Sir I hear good men say 't is of great importance towards living well to have the assistance of some special Saints which are in high favour with Almighty God particularly of the Blessed Virgin Mother of God and have been told stories how she ha's obtain'd remission of sins for some persons to whom Christ our Saviour her Son has deny'd it nay if I remember wel could not obtain it of his heavenly Father for them And for this cause I understand some make themselves by vow as I think her Slaves and use extraordinary devotions to her and have great confidence in such actions M. There can be no doubt but the intercession of the holy Angels and Saints works wonderful effects and has a strong force to obtain of Almighty God what 's convenient for our salvation if they pray for us nor yet can there be doubt but they pray for us seeing they
that some-thing is made by God therefore seeing God can do whatever any thing made by him 't is clear he can do all things which is to be Almighty But tell me now do you think when God does a thing he knows what he does S. It were a shame to doubt of that since we accompt him a fool who knows not what he does besides since God makes us know what we do and is himself perfecter than we he must needs know what he does even better than we M. And he that knows a thing does not he know what that thing can do for example can a man know a knife or a clock without knowing that the one can cut and the other tell the hour of the day S. That 's impossible as also that God should not know what any work of his can do M. See again how you shew that God knows all things for since he knows what himself made and what all the things he made can do and nothing is or can be done but what himself and they do it follows that God knows all and every thing that is done great and little to the number of the thoughts of men and angells to the division of dust and sands and whatever els is done nay and what can be done though it neither be nor ever will be done But now tell me do you know by your body or by your soul S. By my soul M. And wherein differs your soul from your body is 't not in this that your body has many parts takes up room or place your soul on the contrary is indivisible and wants no place nor has any parts but is a Spirit S. Al this I remember to have learnt now you put me in mind of it M. Then seeing you sind that God knows all things what do judge him to be S. Certainly a Spirit but yet I know not well what a Spirit is nor what conceit or apprehension to make of it M. Do you conceive what 's meant by these words Mind Understanding Wit Thought Knowledge c. If you do you have made some apprehension of a spirit It suffices then at present to conceive God to be such a thing that he is a Knowledge and works by it But tell me is God a Spirit joyn'd with a body as our soul is or a pure Spirit without any Body S. Methinks if God were made up of Spirit and body there were no impossibility iâ— him but his Spirit might be without his Body and so God might dy or not be which makes against the necessity of his being alwayes formerly prov'd M. But yet this Mind or Spirit must have the perfection of all Bodies in it since as is already shown It can do whatever all Bodies can S. This is very clear in my minde M. Then you see that God is a pure Spirit or Minde containing in it self the natures and perfections of all things that is all Being and all Goodness Here the Catechist ought to exhart the Cathecumen or person he catechizes to the admiration and reverence of God out of his plenitude of Perfection To the fear of God out of his Omniscience and Omnipotence And to the love of him out of his All-goodness SECOND CONFERENCE M. YOU remember you told me that God Almighty made Adam Can you tell mee why he made him and first whether he wanted him S. No Sir he could not want him for seeing hee 's All-goodness he could want no good thing and for what 's bad or naught there can bee no want or need of that M. At least did he get any thing by him or was he richer after then before S. No Sir he that hath all can get nothing M. At least as you have pleasure when your hear your self commended or see your self honour'd and serv'd so did God get any new content S. Sir without doubt it could not but please him For so I am taught that my good works please God and my sins displease him M. 'T is very true that he is pleas'd with our good works and displeas'd with our bad But not so that he conceiv's new pleasure or displeasure but with the pleasure of good which hee had for ever and the displeasure of bad likewise he had for ever For if hee could receive new pleasure or displeasure he would get some thing he had not before which you told me he could not But now if he got neither profit nor content by making Adam why did he make him S. Sir I cannot tell you that for I never do good but I get something that contents me M. If you should finde a poor wretch in a wilderness ready to starve and you had store of victuals would you not give him some S. Yes sir and should think my self unworthy to live unless I did M. And why for you should neither have honour nor profit neither though peradventure afterwards you would have pleasure would you think of that when you did it S. I know not Sir why but good nature would make me do it M. And now you have told me why For 't is the nature of Goodness to do good as of heat to heat and of cold to cool And so God being all Goodness needs no other cause why to do good then that himself by nature is Goodness or as you call it of a good nature But tell me again did God Almighty make you S. No Sir my Father and my Mother made me M. Think you so and I pray if your Master should whip you or make the Stationer give you a fine new book would you thank the Stationer or be angry at the rod or rather be thankfull or displeas'd towards your Master S. Towards my Master Sir But I do not see that God Almighty either bad my Father or Mother make me or used them to that end M. No Did you not tell me that God made Adam Adam his Son and so till it came to your father and mother S. Yes Sir but this is a great way off from God's making me M. It will come nearer You told me also that God knew all that was to be done or could be done by the things he made And again that what he did he did out of his Goodness you see then that hee knew your Father and Mother would make you and would have it so and out of his Goodness put the causes which should make you What does your Master more when he either rewards or punishes you but onely puts the causes out of which hee intends and knows your good or harm will follow Well if this bee agreed on that God made you tell me now whether you have any thing that God did not bestow upon you S. No Sir for what ever I should say I had from my self or from any other you will in the same manner shew
that the causes coming from God hee uses them to make mee have those things and so bestow'd them on mee M. 'T is well sayd But to whether are you more beholding for the thing you have to God or to him that immediatly gives it you for example for your life and being to God or your parents for your learning to God or your master S. Hitherto Sâ—r I am sure I have given more thanks to my Parents and Masters but now I know not what I ought to do M. How soon have you forgot you own saying did you not tell mee that your affection was not at all towards the Stationer or rod to which your father and master are compar'd but onely to your Master that rewarded or corrected you how then are you so soon ignorant whom you are most to thank God or the next causes of your good S. By that rule I should ow nothing to my parents and master but onely to God M. Not so neither but to every one according to the good will he bears you and the share he has in the good deed Now as for God Almighty you know there is no cause concurring nor any least part of the work which belongs not totally to him on all sides and from the very beginning Therefore how much the good is 't is wholy and entirely due unto him but your Parents and Master are not the thousandth part of the Causes and therefore though thanks be due to them in respect they are the immediate causes yet in comparison of what 's due to God you are not one thousandth part beholding to them Again you told mee God knew perfectly all things belonging to this good you possess and the best owing of it But the next cause understands not perfectly what himself does but is bent to his work beyond his own understanding as you may easily see by this that your self when you walk know not how you do it and we may be pos'd in twenty things which belong to walking which nevertheless our selves do But amongst all things you have are not works some as singing playing understanding eating and the rest and therefore also whatsoever you do comes likewise from Aâ—mighty God S. Yes Sir I see well enough that because my self and all other causes of my action come from God it must needs follow that my actions come from him But I dare not say so for fear I should make him author of my sins which I have been taught he is not M. 'T is well thought on But if you knew that Sâ—n were but want of doing or not-doing you would not fear that consequence For as you see when a man takes a knife to cut with the cutting pâ—oceed from the man but that it cuts not so well as it should proceeds from the bluntness or want of edge in the knife and likewise the writing proceeds from the Scrivener but that the pen gives not ink well or blots comes from the evill fashioning or slitting of the pen so what a man does is from God but that he does not so well as he ought which is to sin proceeds from some defect in the man For as from fire cold cannot proceed nor from water driness so from the Fountain of Being and Goodness the want of goodness and being cannot spring By this you easily gather that God is the Governour of this world seeing all things are done by his disposition and government Here the Catechist ought to exhort his Catechumen to remember and perform his duty towards God who as he gives us all things freely so he deserves that we offer independently from reward all our works and wills to him As he made us so as creatures wee are his slaves As he gave us every thing we have all our goods are his As he is more cause then the next causes so is hee to be preferr'd before all As he does all our works in us so requires hee the honour of all be attributed to him As he is not author of sin so is he not to be charg'd with any fault or want on his side And as hee 's Governour of the world so is he to be pray'd to fear'd and respected THIRD CONFERENCE M. VVEll now Adam's made what did God give him S. Sir I know not that for I have not read the Scripture whence that is co be known M. But you know what things make a man and doubt not but God gave them perfectly to Adam for a good workman makes his work good and would be asham'd if it should come out of his hands otherwâ—se than perfect according to that saying that a good tree cannot breed ill fruit S. I know a man is made of Body and Soul and so Adam had those M. What are the perfections of the Bâ—dy are they not Health which consists in the integrity of all parts of our body and ability to use them well Strength to carry heave draw push and and the like Nimbleness or agility by which wee do our actions with life and quickness and lastly Beauty which graces both body and actions Likewise in the Soul wee see Understanding and Will Understanding comprehends Memory of things past Judgment of the present and Forecast of things to come Can you doubt whether these things were given to Adam S. No Sir for seeing wee have them from Adam sure Adam could not fail to have had them and to have receiv'd them from God M. But do you think Adam had no more then wee have either in body or soul in our birth S. Yes sir yet I am not well able to imagin what t is M. Do you think he knew and lov'd God above all things S. Yes sure for knowing hee was not from himself but had receiv'd all from God hee could not chuse but love him above all things M. True and God dispos'd all things fit for this for having fram'd his body â—f red clay hee stood in a visible shape before him that when hee first look'd up the first thing he saw was Almighty God finishing the creation of all things in him so that his heart being rightly set for this purpose free from all other affections most passive by the daintiness of the mould as yet not mingled with any others it could not bee but that this sight should make a most deep apprehension which must needs carry the whole powers of the soul with it and totally subject it to Almighty God But do you think this wrought any thing in the Body S. I know not Sir M. Do you not finde that good news makes your body light and jocond have you not seen boys rid of the hiccock by an apprehension of fear nay some speak of those that have been freed from agues by fears or angers and does not in all this the soul work upon the body why then should you doubt but so strong
you M. You answer well for Seeing specially by our understanding is the pleasure of the Minde which must needs be greater than the pleasure of the Body since the body has pleasure by the minde and the minde is deaded by the body But the Understanding infinitly surpasses the body because as Philosophers say it sees at once all particulars as who knows this universall that all men do such a thing knows what Sense can never reach But bee your self judge do you remember that ever at the sight of a dish of meat or news of a play day you burst out in laughter S. No Sir M. But if you heard a quick jest could you contain your self S. Many times I could not although I bit my lip and us'd al means to restrain my self M. Then the pleasure of a jest being intellectuall of the others corporeall which kinde of pleasure is most strong and efficacious S. I doubt not but the pleasure of the minde is stronger M. Now of all sorts of knowledge that by which wee understand why a thing is so or what makes it so which Logicians call demonstratio à priori is that which gives greatest pleasure and content and the higher the Cause is the greater proportionably the pleasure is too Now God being so high a Cause that hee 's beyond al causes and considerd as hee is in himself a more sublime notion comprehending both to be Cause and Effect and that in so noble and transcendent a manner as al the rest put together are incomparably and infinitly short of Him what pleasure must wee imagin it to see Him as hee is in himself As for your dâ—fficulty note that you do not desire change or variety til you have a satiety of what you enjoy and have a time of rest and quiet in it so that you have perfectly known it and found it less than your desires Now seeing God is beyond not onely the capacity of our desires but of millions of millions better then us and is sufficient to satisfy and fill the boundless extent of his own immense will 't is not possible that who sees God should complain of want of Variety Besides if variety were desirable in him is alâ— that can be desir'd not onely because hee contains every thing but because in him may be discern'd the essences and reasons of every particular thing from the creation of the heav'ns to the division of the least grain of dust in the high way what they are all their particular conditions that they are and why they are so that nothing can be sought for which is not to be found in God S. Truly Sir I must confess this is a pleasure greater than eye hath seen or ear heard or heart can conceive Nevertheless me thinks we should have some content also of our friends in the next life M. You shal of all their good but especially every one shal have particular contentment of his own good actions above all of those great ones Martyrdome Teaching and Virginity also of the good of every saint and creature in the world and of the punishment of euery damned soul in hel and the joy shal be greater according to every lawfull cause of content that nature affords us as kindred acquaintance and the like But not to forget our comparison le ts see what the wicked shal have shal they enjoy their desires can you tell me first what their desires be S. Their desires were wealth Authority meat drink and carnall pleasures which sure are then past and cannot be enjoy'd M. You say wel and in case they do not enjoy them how wil they be contented with the want of them S. They must needs be extremely afflicted if they vehemently desire and cannot obtain them and you say'd that if by choice of reason they took them for absolutely good they must needs desire them M. Tell me then are they in pain or no S. In Grief sir I understand they are but I do not see how they can be in Pain M. True 't is wee ordinarily take pain for corporall grief whereas indeed 't is but grief inflicted by another onely because we see none grieve but such as might leave of if they would we think no grief pain But after this life when the wicked cannot chuse but grieve if you remember that all comes from Gods hand you will see that their grief is also pain But do you judge it equall to that pain which the Body feels S. I know the pains of hell are far the greater though I know not well why M. If pleasure come from the soul to the body must not grief do the like and if the body dull the edge of pleasure must it not necessarily dull that also If then pleasure of minde infinitely exceed pleasure of body must not the like be sayd of grief But when shall this grief have an end S. I know that neither heaven nor hel have end but I know not well the reason more then that it so befits God's goodness and justice M. You are of a short memorâ— did you not tel mee God could not chuse but give him bliss that lov'd him above all things and that who saw him being All-goodness it ielf could not but love him above all things S. Now I see that since neither the blessed can leave to love nor God to bless those who love him their happiness can have no end M. And do you think the wicked can lose the misery unless they change their mind from loving what they cannot obtain S. No Sir but I know not why they should not change their minds M. Can they change their minds unless they see some thing of new which they saw not before or leave seeing somewhat which they did see and know S. No certainly but methinks they can think of what they wil M. Is not their souls indivisible and it 's actions without motion and so whatever they go about as soon done as 't is doing you see then necessarily that al they can do is already done al perpetually present and they see at once al they can see wherefore they can never change their minds but are to be everlastingly miserable which God defend us from But is there think you no middle condition between thâ—se two and some in that condition S. Yes Sir there 's a third state of those that dy in venial sin who aae in Purgatory and thence go to Heaven M. You are wel taught For some being in such a state at their death as though they firmly think God their greatest good and are content to forgo al other goods for him nevertheless they love worldly things withal something irregularly so as they are loath to leave them These therefore cannot have perpetual bliss til such desires be taken off and like gold in the fiâ—e purifi'd from all
effects it works in us who are the posterity of Adam S. I have heard that sins and ignorance and also death and infirmities have their origin from it M. Can you shew these things of it S. No indeed Sir for any thing I know as yeâ— but I expect you will make me know it M. Then tell me in a child three or four years old which is stronger Sense or Reason S. Sense without question For give him an apple tell him it will offend God to eat it I make no question but as soon as you have turn'd your back hee 'l eat the apple without regarding the offence of God so that I see Sense in him is stronger than Reason M. Right for he understands not what is the offence of God as yet nay accorâ—â—ng to the ordinary Judgment of Divines not till seven years of age So long therefore sense has the whole government of a child and after seven reason by litle and litle overcomes till the age of thirty The Philosophers not admitting maturity of wisdome and constant Judgment till the standing part of our age which is when we leave growing so that till then wee are on the losing side Now what think you is 't easy to conquer and root out a thing that 's grown in and with us for thirty years together S. It must needs be very hard M. Do you think that hard which evâ—â—y man does S. No Sir that 's easy which all can do and the harder a thing is so much the fewer can do it M. Thâ—n seeing to overcome Sense perfectly is very hard and very few can do it and most men do it not Mankind is subject or slave to sin as being for the most part conquer'd â—y it S. This is very well but you do not shew that this comes from originall sin M. So that it seems you have forgot that by originall sin it first came that Sense has it's proper motion not subject to Reason which if it had not the more it should grow the more vertuous it would make the man because hee would still become more subject to God and Reason S. Sir I see now that all our Sins come from original sin and indeed 't is no wonder that one sin should proceed from an other But I expect how you wilâ— shew that Ignorance Infirmities proceed from the same For if they were then to be born as we are now children and grow to be men I think they must needs also be children in knowledge and so have ignorance so that this cannot be the ofspring of original sin and likewise if then they had eaten to grow and keep themselves a live as we do now they would not avoid but meats should have their effect and so breed diseases when out of season M. You are not well acquainted with the difference of not knowing and being ignorant for not every one is ignorant who does not know but he who knows not what he ought or what 's fitting for him to know For example what Master either of Divinity or Philosophy or any other Art knows all which may be known in his Art yet are they not therefore to be term'd Ignorant So likewise any man who knows what 's fitting is not ignorant Now I pray if any one in that estate knew not what was fitting to know it was either because he could not or would not S. True for whosoever can and will do any thing 't is most clear he does it M. Then what think you in that state could he not or would he not know what was fitting If he could not it was want in himself or in his teacher But Adam was perfect in knowledge could teach him If himself were not capable the knowledge was above him and so not such as was fitting or such as the want thereof induces Ignorance If there was want of will it was because he lov'd some other thing better and that he was not wholy subject to reason which cannot be without original sin and so original sin is cause of Ignorance Now if ignorance be cause of sickness and death you have no more to reply S. No indeed But I hear learned men say that 't is not in the power of nature to keep a man from death and therefore I fear not ignorance should be the cause thereof M. But what if ignorance or sin be the cause why nature cannot keep a man from death let 's see death comes either by violence or sickness violence from man or beast or some dead thing But if men had not sin'd they would neither have falâ— out nor have been surpris'd by chance which proceeds from not foreseeing so that from Man no hurt could have proceeded Beasts would all have been tame and in fear of man as we see those be which use men's company or as others might be made And for Accidents unless a man puts himself in danger they would not arrive likewise if we look into the cause of sickness in Physicians books we shall see it proceeds from some excess or defect which in that state would not have been when man had wit and will to provâ—de against both S. Sir that was an happy age or rather would have been if man had kept his honour in which God had plac'd him M. True but yet this we have would not be miserable if our selves did not make it so by our own fault not seeing what 's before our eyes For consider if you please what 's more cause of fin unto us than pleasure yet no Sin can be without displeasure S. Sir that were hard to perswade since we see men daily think nothing sweet but it which could not be did they experience continual displeasure in it M. Can you doubt but that must needs grieve a man which is against his inclination and nature then if Reason be the nature of man how can he see himself do against reason which nevertheless every sin does without grief and pain Again does not sin set our hearts upon goods which may be taken from us as money meat play and the like it puts us then in perpetual danger of vexation grief for who looses what he 's in love with must needs be grieved according to the measure of his love Again if Reason have fore-cast of what 's to come and memory of what 's past Sense which is the cause of sin onely consideration of the present is 't not manifest that sin by sense precipitates us into future inconveniencies which Reason keeps us out of Again Reason has one conduct and government through all occurrences But Sense as many severall motions as the things desir'd are different which because they are not ever had together make the vitious man now follow one now another and sometimes miss
towards Laws and Superiours Obedience towards your Equalls and Inferiours in honour Courtesy in words Affability But I beleeve you have heard that the Moral or Cardinal Virtues are four Therefore let me have your help Can you tel me what 't is to bee Discreet S. I think it is to be wise M. Well ghess'd although you miss a little for true 't is every wise man is discreet yet not every discreet man wise For if you look upon men's conversation you shall observe some have good skil in human actions yet for passion or other desires follow not their knowledg Others have their desires so as they should bee but litle skill Others have both skill and will good others both bad And these last are both fools and knaves for the most part The formost of the other three are Understanding men but not Discreet the others be discreet but not understanding The third are both that is Wise Now I hope you will not fail to tel mee what makes a discreet man S. Since a discreet man is hâ—â— who hath his affect on s right iâ— human action and the three virtues above nam'd make a man's affections such those three virtues make a man discreet M. 'T is very well say'd For if you note hee who has these three virtues will use the skill he has to the utter most And him we call discreet who according to his understanding carries things well Which virtue by Divines is called Prudence It's office is to judge a right what is to be done by him that has it according to the proportion of the man's knowledge and so you have your 4. Virtues call'd Morall or Cardinall But before I leave you must answer me one question farther which is whether you think that hee who performs his action according to these Virtues need have any scruple of the work done S. No Sir certainly for if his action be vertuous as proceeding from a minde which has these vertues it must needs be good M. And what though he has an affection to do wel yet if he has not skil can the deed be good S. I did not think of that Then indeed it must be naught M. True t is the action is not good Yet he need not make scruple of what is pass'd because hee did his endeavour But before the action bee perform'd what is he to do if hee cannot tel whether part is to be done S. Hee ought to ask some body that knows M. You say well if hee cannot or when he has ask't find no body that can tell he may do whither he lists And whither he miss or no never make scruple of it as long as hâ—â—'s sure that no â—ll affection was guide in his choice 〈◊〉 that he proceeded out of the Love of God and a good conscience In these three Conferences the motives of vertue and good life frequently occurring advertise the Catechist to make his Cathecumen reflect and move himself unto them They be plain of themselves NINTH CONFERENCE M. YOu know by what is said what Christian life is viz. the practise chieftly of the three Theologicall vertues and in consequence of the four Cardinal ones that is of all vertues But can you tell me what 't is that gives life to all the rest S. I Imagin Sir 't is Charity because you said that it gave life to Hope and that all Cardinal vertues were to be practis'd for God's sake But I reach not unto the reason unless you help me M. You know not your own strength For tell me if you should see a dog or a horse new kill'd how would you know whether it were dead or no S. By the stirring For as long as it stirs I should think some life were yet in it When I saw it stir no more then I should take it for dead M. Very well so far then is agree'd that to live is to have a power in it self to move or stir it self Now can you tel me what is the first principle of stirring in you and other men as they are men Do not you see the more in love they are with any thing the more they stir to obtain it so that you see love is that which stirs a man makes him move towards the thing belov'd Wherefore the Love of God or Charity is the thing which first moves the Christian to walk towards him that is to exercise all vertue You see likewise that what takes away from us the love of God brings us death in lieu of life as we are Christians What is that S. That is as I perceive now mortall Sin for I imagin 't is call'd Mortall or deadly because it takes away lâ—fe and life is Charity Therefore that sin is mortall which deprives our soul of the Love of God M. You are a great Divine but what is 't that takes away the Love of God or of any thing else from us S. I think 't is hate for hate is contrary to love yet methinks no body can hate God and so there would be no mortall sin if that were true M. You say wel but do you not remember that who so loves must as you told me do good for him whom he loves if he can whence it comes that the row of all other vertues follow Charity he then who will not do any of those things which necessarily follow upon Love loses his love But no man would neglect those things unless he lov'd some other thing whose love hinder'd him from performance thereof So that you see how not onely hate of God but Love of such things as hinder you to do what you ought in love to him takes away Charity Can you now tel me what Sin is mortall S. Why Sir whoever lovesany thing in such sort that it causes him not to perform to God himself and his neighbour all he owes them that is all which the four Cardinall Vertues command sins mortally for he loses Charity which is the substance of Christian life M. You say wel if you understand what you say For what think you is not stealing against Justice one of the Cardinal vertues and yet you will not say that whosoeuer steals a pin commits a mortall Sin S. No indeed Sir but truly I know not why M. Did you not say that he who commits a mortal sin loses Charity by it Charity you know is the Love of your Neighbour if then not every thing as the taking a pin is sufficient cause for your Neighbour to fall out with you you lose not his Love for taking a pin Such a breach of justice then as is a sufficient cause for ordinary wise men to break of conversation and friendship with you is a mortal sin But what is less than that is not S. This is well Sir for a mans Neighbour but towards God Almighty I think this measure will not
such dross but til then remaining in pain partly for their temporal losses by death but chiefly for their spirituall want being not able to attain Bliss which they infinitly desire til by the Churches help God of his mercy rectifies them and accomplishes their purgation yet so as by Fire S. Me thinks Sir in al this you talk not of burning or gnashing of teeth or such corporeall pains which I have been taught are in Hell and Purgatory M. These things are said to be in Hell metaphorically when spoken of souls which want their bodies and signify no more than that they are tormented by fire as who is frighted or dazel'd is tormented though not burn'd But are you able to tel me why and when souls shall receive their bodies S. The time is at dooms-day The cause why they receive them is I think their love to them M. Do you not remember you told me the wicked have not their desires and the just desire nothing but according to God's will If so it seems your consequence wil not be very good But to make it so you must know naturally a man desires every thing because 't is good and good is as much as convenient to the desirer who is not onely Soul but Body too wherfore if naturall desire cannot be frustrated or disappointed by God the Authour of nature and the desires of our life remain after death it follows that the desire of good to our person is naturall and remaining after death and therefore must needs be supply'd Can you tell me how this great work is to be done S. Sir I know we shal al arise at the great day more I know not M. I le help you when that Day comes Christ shall appear in the ayr over Hierusalem as 't is thought and suddenly all parts of the earth and sea shall render their carcases and whole Mankind be restor'd to their Bodies Where on the one part the Saints shall be carry'd in the ayr to meet Christ the others shall remain below viewing their glory dreading their own misery till judgment being given those rest happy for ever with our Saviour the other are swallow'd into hell After which day all motion shall cease and there shall be no change or alteration but a state of permanency for ever S. Yes Sir but I doubt not there will be other great differences betwixt the Saints and the damned if you would please to tell me them M. Do you not remember the gifts you told me were conferr'd on Adam as to his Body those very same shal be perfected in the Saints As for health they shall have impassibility so that nothing can hurt them For their strength they shall have a power which nothing can resist call'd Impenetrability For Agility they shal have a power in the twinckling of an eye to pass beyond any determin'd distance whatsoever And lastly for Beauty they shall have power to shine and shew themselvs in what glory they please As for the Damned the heaviness of their minds shall make them not onely uncapable of all these advantages but such distemper'd deform'd and every way ill-compos'd Bodies as are most sutable to so sadly and so outragedly distemper'd mindes S. What shall the Saints do with these perfections if there be no motion M. These are not for use but powers and qualities necessarily following the state of the soul in the body of which shee is to be Mistress and to have power to use it as her self pleases And so you see what good life brings you to both in this transitory and the next eternall world Can you shew me now that the Blessed have all that even wicked men can desire S. Sir I see they have more pleasure then this world can affoord And as for honour I see Saints are more honour'd then Alexanders and Augustuses Power I know not how they have or wealth M. Wealth is not here desir'd but for necessity or magnificence the time of both which is pass'd and for power sure they want not that who have all they wish and can meet with nothing to resist their will The Catechist also here hath great occasion to press his Catechumen to good life by lively representing him the greatness of the Ioyes and Pains of the next world which are most incomparably moving if he declare them well ELEVENTH CONFERENCE M. NOw you are so learn'd as to know what it was to which Christ labour'd so much to bring mankind I pray tell me what means he us'd to plant his doctrin so that it should continue so many ages so deeply rooted in the heart of man as we see it has and beleeve it shall S. Teaching and Miracles which are the greatest Confirmations that can be M. Thus much you told me long ago but what more do you not know Si me vis stere dolendum est primum ipsi tibi I mean that if a man be not perswaded affectionately of a thing himself he cannot well perswade another Consider then how necessary it was to send the Holy Ghost that is the plenitude of it upon his Apostles after his Ascension Which according to the outward apparition fill'd their hearts with fiery zeal and their tongues with the praises of Almighty God that they might be vehemently conceited themselves of the truth and of the great good the knowledge thereof brought to the world and earnestly desirous to breed the like conceit in others and so it might descend in vertue of the first plantation by ordinary means to the end of the world But tel me who were those chiefly that receiv'd the Holy Ghost S. The Apostles were the chief and all others who came since have learn'd of them and so I see the Church is truly Apostolical M. Yes and onely shee ask any Hereticks whether they receiv'd their doctrin from the Apostles they will answer yes By whose hands they answer by the scripture But a Catholike says from his Forefathers they from theirs c. so that none lays claym to have their Church Apostolical but onely Catholicks For the question 's not whether there were al the while some of their Religion but whethese who now are were taught and receiv'd it from them by true succession For if two studying one thing in divers times finde the same the one does not receive it from the other and so 't is not true succession But where did the Apostles preach S. Through the whole world for such was Christs command nor can there be any doubt but they did what they were bid And so I see the Church is Catholik over the world M. How can that be seeing the Alcâ—ran is in as great a part of the world as Christ's Gospel Nay some Heresies have been spred in the greater part of the Christian world But because you are no very great Historian I wil read you this riddle You ought
not morally in your power and to be sorry you are not likely to have your endeavours correspondent to your wil And this I think enough But is it enough think you to make this purpose S. Yes surely for I see not what a man can do more M. So may you come often to Confession with little profit You must therefore consider the occasions which draw you into danger and study with your self and take your Ghostly Father's advice how without greater inconveniences you may fly such occasions that so the avoiding of sin may be the easier And know the causes of transgressions are as well in omission as in commission And prudently use such pious exercises as may withdraw you from temptation Neither can any be truly sorry for his sins who thinks it not worth his care to study how to amend them But what do you next S. Go to the Priest and confess my sins as reverently as I can M. What affections do you exercise in coming to make your Confession S. I do but read my prayers which are preparatory to Confession M. Consider then the countenance of a man who asâ—â—â— forgiveness of one whom he has offended you shall see dejection submission shame fastness sorrow and fear in him Such as these too must be your affections And when you make your Confession what do you observe S. I tel al I think sins as wel as I can that my Ghostly Father may understand mee M. Weldone but you must note first to tel nothing in general for that your Ghostly Father knows wel enough already as that you love not God and your neighbour as you should do and such like which spend time to no profit Secondly to avoid as near as you can all unseemly terms if your conscience force you to speak of unseemly things Thirdly to be as short as you can as to say you have done such things so often expressing withal the necessary circumstances As for making general Confessions after the first time to what purpose it is I know not for neither Absolution is more certain nor any other notable profit comes of it If it be to make the state of his soul known to his Ghostly Father that will contain the space but of a little time and may be done without particularities and confession But now what follows S. Nothing on my part but to do what my Ghostly Father enjoyns or councels mee M. True but on his part remain two things which belong to you one the giving absolution the other imposing of penance or satisfaction the first contains rather a Theological difficulty than Catechistical that is what Absolution the Priest gives For if a man betruly sorry he is absolv'd before if not the Priest's absolution does him no good And in human judgment the Judge but declares not makes one innocent But we may be casily mistaken in this discourse For since God Almighty has put this condition upon us that we shal submit ourselves to the Priest's judgement whoever is truly contâ—â—te receives God's favour by being ready to fulfil this his law and so unless he does it when he can is not contrite nor absolv'd And when he does it is absolv'd by doing it Whence ' â—is clear the absolution which the Priest gives is necessary and a true forgiving As for satisfaction it has two parts one towards God and one towards your Neighbour For if you have broken Charity you ow the making of it whole again which to your neighbour is submitting your self to amends for the wrong done Towards God you must know the satisfaction which the Priest imposes is but sacramentall and significativâ— â—n performing whereof you testify that you are willing in this life and in the next to satisfy fully God's Justice according to his will Therefore you must not wonder the penance often is so little For it is moderated according as the Priest esteems it fitting for a medicin more than for a punishment FOURTEENTH CONFERENCE M. VVHat Sacraments are yet untouch'd S. These Sir Baptism Confirmation Matrimony Extreme-Vinction and Order M 〈◊〉 Matrimony and Extreme Vnction you shall be sufficiently instructed when you have use of them Baptism because t is common to al to administer it I shall tell you the substance of it is to cast water on the child with these words I Baptize thee in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Ghost As for Confirmation do you think it necessary S. I hear some hold 't is not M. The holding of some neither makes the Opinion true nor fiees it from Censure For as not every fault so not every errour is still taken notice of As to the point of necessity it stands in its being a Sacrament that is a principalâ— action of Christian life whose Institution of it self is a Command Besides the express words of our Saviour Unless one be born again c. Which Himself applies to this mystery Add the Traditions of the Church Estimation of Councels and Fathers and the Proportion of it to corporall Augmentation What other Sacrament remains to be explicated S. That of Order which I understand to have two degrees Holy or Greater and Inferiour M. So far wel but to what does it correspond in our corporall life S. To Marriage and must consequently bee to breed spirituall children M. How is that done if you be so learned as to answer that question S. By Baptism for that you said was the birth of Christians as Christians M. Wel remember'd 'T is not enough that children be born but they must be bred up instructed and govern'd And this is wont to be divided into three actions The first to wean them from the love of naturall objects The second to instruct them and let them know what 's necessary to supernatural life And thirdly to induce them to do what they have learnt is necessary Which three actions in the mysticall language are called the Purgative illuminative and unitive way And according to these three is constituted the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy of Bishops Priests and their Ministers who are chiefly Deacons Subdeacons and afterward the other four lesser orders And is called Hierarchy that is Holy Power or Principality The first is done by ceremonies and majestickness of holy rites at which sensual men standing in admiration begin to think there is some greater mystery in the matter thus handled and desire to learn and understand it The second is done chiefly by Catechising by which the people understand what 's to be beleev'd hop'd and practis'd The third by Government by which men are set forward kept in order to do what they have understood to be their duty S. Sir by this the Deacons Subdeacons should be the chief instruments of the Sacraments whereas wee see they belong chiefly to Priests and Bishops Besides I have heard Preaching is proper to Bishops which