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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A35408	The necessity of abating usury re-asserted in a reply to the discourse of Mr. Thomas Manly entituled, Usury at six per cent. examined, &c. Together with a familiar and inoffensive way propounded for the future discovery of summes at interest, that so they may be charged with their equal share of publick taxes and burthens, the long defect whereof hath exceedingly fomented usury, embased land, and much decay'd the better half of the kingdom. By Sr. Thomas Culpeper, Jun. Knight.	Culpeper, Thomas, Sir, 1626-1697.	1670 (1670)	Wing C7560; ESTC R204213	47,514	65

The Necessity of Abating USURY RE-ASSERTED In a Reply to the Discourse of M r. Thomas Manly ENTITULED Vsury at six per Cent. Examined c. Together with a Familiar and inoffensive way propounded for the future Discovery of summes at Interest that so they may be charged with their equal share of Publick Taxes and Burthens the long defect whereof hath exceedingly fomented Usury Embased Land and much decay'd the better half of the Kingdom By S r. Thomas Culpeper Jun. Knight LONDON Printed by T. L. for Christopher Wilkinson at the Black-boy against S. Dunstans Church in Fleet-street 1670. TO THE READER THe answer lately published to my discourse concerning the Abatement of usury was so farre from surprising mee that indeed it was no other then I long expected and much desired Not from any overweening of my own cause which yet perhaps would justifie some degree of confidence But from a reall wish that important truths may be cleared which they can hardly be till they have been roundly contradicted and severely scanned And therefore I am in the first place to thank my plain dealing Adversary for this Opportunity of resuming the Argument That by due enquiry either Convincing my Errour or Confirming my judgement the impartial Reader may be however satisfied When first I saw it and observed its bulke I looked at least for some Arguments which had never been offered before and prepared my self with much curiosity to read it But finding my Expectation herein disappointed I could not but take it for a happy Omen that since the reasons urged for the present fall are either parallel or certainly more pregnant than those in former times and the objections against it little or nothing Varied the like successe would probably attend it It was then with equal tumult and acrimony suggested that no wisdom could foresee the tragical consequences That half our cash would be buried under ground and the rest exported to better profit That no young beginner could ever hope to borrow five pounds That wee should be beggered meerly by the with-drawing of forraign Loanes That eight per cent was not worth whistling after nor scarce telling That Brokage and securities would be intolerable that lawes were but cobwebs to necessity that Improvement was a brainsick Project That Orphanes and Widowes would crie for vengeance That the Disasters of Riot and sloath were falsely charged upon usury And that it was frivolous herein to quote the wise frugal and industrious Hollander Sutable to the Arguments the Adversaries were then the same For it was principally opposed by the Dons and Ruffes the eminent Traders and other sages of that time who either being some of them at least parcel-usurers or foreseing that it would raise that land which they were yet to purchase or disperse that Benefit of trade which they desired still to monopolize or disdaining to learn ought from their inferiours brow-beat it as the Project of Bankrouts derided it as the Frenzy of Novices and State-Empyricks and thought it sufficiently baffled by their dis-owining it Herein seconded by the usurer with his numerous Gang deeply concerned that so goodly a shrine should be prophanely touched and shrewdly misliking the Precedent Abetted by many faint-hearted Borrowers who mistrusting the event of a good cause maintain'd as they thought by Dwarfes but assai'ld by Gyants Either cried quarter● and layd down their Armes or ran over to the enemy to the great encrease of his forces and hazard of the enterprise The same Crisis had it in point of time being moved three years before it took effect For in the year 1620 my Father wrote his treatise as appeares by the Date of its first edition and in the year 1623. I take it the Act passed Now this interval was spent in eager disputes and the daily gaining of Proselytes wherin by the way it is observable that for ought appeares that age was not yet brave enough to assert even the height of publick usury in Print For being first propounded by a few Country Gentlemen and Merchants for the smalnesse of their party and boldnesse of their assertions then censured as Fanaticks in trade in that space of time it won in effect all true lovers of their Country and convinced farr the major part of unbrassed Auditours These Circumstances I hold it pertinent enough for me to relate as I received them by conversation with my deceased Father or collected them from his Treatises partly to shew how difficult it is to dislodge a potent Oppressour partly to satisfie the present Assertours of this Argument that they ought not to despayre though they meet with greater hardships then have yet encountred them but rather assuredly promise themselves That cause must and will at length prevayle which hath not hitherto been opposed but by flouts and frowns In the Reading of M r. Manlies answer I find exception taken both at my frequent mention of the term usurer and at divers blunt expressions upon that subject But I hope it may easily be salved with this candid distinction of a ranke or common usurer and a Lender upon usury It is the trade which I abhorre not the bare practise Common usurers I defie as the scandals of the Church and Cankers of the State Lenders upon usury I partly excuse knowing many of them to be persons truly conscientious and such as were they convinced of the oppression would not only desist but restore yet even these I cannot but admonish seriously to consider whether such practise have any better ground to support it then general Custome and seeming Convenience Countenanced by the Pulpits silence and whether in the purpose of humane lawes impunity come not farre short of right To such as yet further expostulate my meaning I answer with a late eminent States-man in the like case whosoever feels himself concerned him I mean or with a friend of mine who being asked where the usurer dwelt protested he knew not and hoped there was no such man Two capital errours in my former Treatise I must acknowledge but withal excuse The first that I did not previously clear this great probleme that the abatement of usury hath a natural and Mathematical Energy to rayse Land and augment Trade For that being granted all the advantages propounded had been sufficiently proved by but naming them Whereas for want of this ground-work the foundation seemed too sleight for the building and my ensuing assertions to unprepared Readers appear'd no better then bold presumptions like the imposing of Authority without first proving it authentick The second that charged our present sufferings wholy or at least principally upon the rate of usury and not as well upon our long unequal burthens which perhaps have had a greater share in the Embasing of land then even usury it self and without which usury would now much lesse have needed reducing To the first I answer That in truth I could not foresee the denial of that maxime which so immediately referres to the infallible

Purchase c. T. C. This I affirm to be a bold mistake and prove my averment 1. from the Ballance of Land and Interest which never fayls but to the Prejudice of Land in bad times 2. From the plain recital of the Act 21. Iacobi declaring then a fall of Land even below its due proportion as the natural effect of high Interest 3 From the testimony of my father dedicating his tract to that Parliament wherein he sate and avowing twelve years purchase then not controuled and sure not modestly to be questioned fifty years after But I see you are one of those deaf men I mentioned that hear only what you list T. M. When mony was at eight per Cent. being the time of our greatest Prosperity Land yielded but 17 or 18 years Purchase and not frequently 20 c. T. C. Surely a faire Rise in so short a Period being but 13 or 14. years inclusive at most for about the year 1637. I take it began our Scotish Commotions which might reasonably check its progresse as my Father in his second Treatise insinuates they did for civil War and Usury are closer Confederates then you are aware of and both sworn enemies to the Land 'T was multis utile bellum that succoured his friend at a dead lift and enabled him thus to trample upon freeholders and Farmers High Interest and Free-quarter me thinks are first Cousins T. M. But now by our unhappy expence of forraigne growths and Manufactures over and above our native commodities exported and a succession of Taxes great and heavy like the Waves of the Sea are not our Land-lords in debt many Borrowers and few lenders and Land fallen to 16 or 17 years Purchase where t is like to continue for ought I see though Interest were reduced till we have more mony fewer Borrowers and lesse Land to sell For if subduing Interest would have done the desired feat 't is strange to me that falling from ten to six per Cent. which is almost one half should not appear ere now so visibly as to stop the mouths of all gainsayers T. C. Nothing will stop the mouths of some Gainsayers Yet to stop all mouths but those that gape on purpose as Usurers we observe do and that very wide I will not referre you to your self for an answer though well I might for surely your question amounts but to this how come our Land-lords having been so long and grievously opprest to be so deeply incumbred Neither will I barely thank you for so strongly and pertinently urging my arguments for me but will likewise in requital set you on your way which it seems you have lost by a Fog You alledge that there are many borrowers and few lenders but is there not say I as much lent as borrowed Is there a Borrower without a lender And might not our lenders who it appeares are great ones being few to many Borrowers soon become Purchasers if as the phrase is they were free And is not the pinching of Usury in rate and taxes the readiest way to make them free that is forward to purchase And may not such forwardnesse of theirs make borrowers likewise free that is able to sell at tollerable prices for the payment of their debts which now it is certain they cannot And may not such sales and payments soon clear and contract the number of debts and debtours And will not such clearing of debts in time make few exigents And will not few exigents make sellers thin And will not the thinnesse of sellers even by your own confession marvellously rayse Land You reproach us with the present fall of Land in purchase but doth not your tenant paying you 75 pound in mony and 25 pound in lawful Bills reckon that he pays you 100 pound per Annum And do you not believe his account And have not most Usurers treated and purchased accordingly And doth not this by your own allowance come pretty neer my account And is it not much that it should still do so considering the extremities of some and moderation of others You object the expence of forraine commodities above our own exportation but have not Land-taxes the Usurers darling however you now exclaim against them for old friends may sometimes wrangle and shake hands again dispatched many of our Freeholders and Farmouts half undone by the War And hath not their ruine made much of our Land lie waste and more be ill husbanded And must not such waste miserably impair and decay our Growth And must not such decay starve our exportation And may not trade so founded easily exceed in its importation Shew me if you can the weaknesse of these chaines T. M. None will lend at three or four per Cent. but upon some other speciall consideration c. T. C. Too many I doubt will still lend at four per Cent. as well for the Rents reserved and thereby secured as also for divers other good causes and considerations The chief whereof I suppose will be that they can no other way for the present get so much so easily safely and to them conveniently yet more 't is hoped will purchase which I take for much the wholsomest kind of loane wishing that Usurers thought so too T. M. Must not trade to the infinite losse of the Nation be hereby engrossed by a few who have prodigious Summes at command to the excluding of small-stocked Traders and young beginners with little money T. C. You are still for Pedlers and Higlers the Usurers Cattle whom he milkes almost dayly and at last must eat them lean for fat they can never be I am for the Worshipfull Trader even the Usurer himself that hath stock to cope with a Fleming viz. those prodigious Summes at command or Interest so I take your meaning which methinks I had rather see generously employ'd in forraign Conquests then like intestine warre eating our own bowells and praying on our vitals As for the engrossing of Trade that is indeed your wisest Argument for have you not noted all along how Trade was dispersed by high Interest but engrossed by lower And may not I observe how the Builders tongues are confounded Nine in ten of your brethren at least your sages objecting directly in your teeth the inevitable growth of a mechanick Trade as they call it meaning thereby I suppose a Trade not so profitable as some of them now possesse nor so easy Lordly and secure as the present Rate of U sury Having hitherto shewn how little your generall invectives against our Luxury and other reigning vices signifie to your Purpose I shall now with lesse noyse but I hope more evidence turn your own weapons against you by proving that Abatement of Usury is in its own nature the greatest sumptuary Law perhaps the only effectuall one that Policy with Justice can contrive Therefore no doubt recommended by God himself to his own People Therefore by the wisest of Common-wealths both antient and modern layd as the very Corner-stone of