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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16183	A large examination taken at Lambeth, according to his Maiesties direction, point by point, of M. G. Blakwell, made Arch-priest of England, by Pope Clement 8 Vpon occasion of a certaine answere of his, without the priuitie of the state, to a letter lately sent vnto him from Cardinall Bellarmine, blaming him for taking the oath of Allegeance. Together with the Cardinals letter, and M. Blakwels said answere vnto it. Also M. Blakwels letter to the Romish Catholickes in England, aswell ecclesiasticall, as lay.	Blackwell, George, 1546 or 7-1613.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621.	1609 (1609)	STC 3104; ESTC S121306	104,118	220

non habere Imperialem Ciuilem potestatem ad libitum ex suo appetitu deponendi Regem nostrum That the Pope hath not an Imperiall and Ciuill power to depose our King when he pleaseth and at his owne appetite suggesting that the said oath had no other meaning and that this sense was thrice insisted vpon before hee this Examinat tooke the said oath and allowed of by the Magistrate whereas the words of the oath which he this Examinat tooke for ought that appeared to the contrarie without any equiuocation or mentall euasion whatsoeuer are cleare and manifest viz. That the Pope neither of himselfe nor by any authoritie of the Church or See of Rome hath any power or authoritie to depose the King The oath saith that the Pope hath no power by any authoritie of the Church or See of Rome viz neither Imperiall Ciuill nor Ecclesiasticall whereas this Examinat telleth the Cardinall that he onely sware against his Imperiall and Ciuill power whereby he might not so proceede with his Maiestie 17. With these particular exceptions this Examinate being somewhat troubled desired againe that before he came to the answering of them he might a little as by the way bewayle himselfe and his present estate which he did in manner as followeth saying That it was no little griefe vnto him to be apprehended and cast into prison that thereupon he hoped his former troubles and oppositions against him would haue ceased that notwithstanding as matters are prosecuted and his proceedings interpreted hee receiueth nothing but discomfort from each side that his friendes might haue bene content to haue expounded his oath in the best part and the rather because they perceiued hee found thereby that he had giuen some reasonable contentmēt to the State for the ease of his imprisonment being an old man and troubled with many bodily infirmities and for the auoyding of some further extremities that Cardinall Bellarmine might well haue forborne his Letter vnto him as also his sharpe censures of him as if by taking the said oath hee had fallen with Peter in denying his Master and with Marcellinus who offered a false sacrifice and that thereby he this Examinate had brought in question one of the chiefe heads of faith and foundations of Catholicke religion that hee the said Cardinall might easily haue foreseene that albeit there had beene no copies of his Letter taken before it came to him this Examinate yet that such a vigilant eye is had ouer him in prison as that it is almost impossible for him to haue kept it vndiscouered especially there being such bruites of it cast abroad as there were euen by those that should haue concealed it that likewise the said Cardinall might not onely well haue thought that if it happened his Letter to be diuulged more hurt then good was likely thereof to ensue except he thought it fit to bring him this Examinate into greater hatred then he was before which could not auaile the common cause and to prouoke his Maiestie to some greater extremities then of his most milde and temperate disposition he is inclined vnto but likewise that it was his this Examinates part in all duety to answere his Letter which would be also as it hath now fallen out as impossible his case considered for him this Examinate to performe with any secrecie as it was that his the said Cardinals Letter should come vndiscryed vnto this Examinate that as hee greatly suspecteth the Cardinals said Letter was cunningly opened before it came to his this Examinates hands so he is perswaded that his answere vnto it will be vsed in the like sort before it come to the Cardinall and the rather he so thinketh for that he findeth alreadie the copie of it by skill and practise to be as soone published abroad here in England as this Examinate could dispatch it for Rome which doth greatly perplexe him and what may be the issue of it he knoweth not but feareth as he saith the worst at al hands that notwithstanding come what shall come his hopes being past which were neuer great his libertie restrained neuer to be recouered the graue expecting him which he most desireth no ioyes nor comforts but in his blessed Sauiour he is resolued with patience to expect and vndergoe it that these and many other such courses held with him do oftentimes exceedingly grieue and trouble him in that men abroad and at libertie haue no more care of poore men imprisoned for those causes which they would seeme most earnestly to affect and that thus hauing eased a litle his heart and referring himselfe and his cause to God he will now addresse himselfe to answere all the partes of the obiection aboue mentioned syncerely and truely from the bottome of his heart as becommeth a true Catholicke priest and as he is perswaded in his conscience without any equiuocation or euasion and without regard or feare of any mens persons or of any inconuenience or further danger that might thereby ensue vnto him or of any slanderous imputations which he doth easily foresee will be heaped vpon him of purpose to discredite both him and that which he findeth he must needes acknowledge except he should wilfully denie the trueth or shew himselfe obstinate and peruerse against lawfull authority which his present estate and conscience will not permit 18 And therefore now as touching his this Examinats signification vnto Cardinall Bellarmine that the effect of his oath was Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem ciuilem potestatem ad libitum ex suo appetitu deponendi Regem nostrum That the Pope hath not an Imperiall and ciuill power to depose our King when he pleaseth and at his owne appetite he will as he saith answere the same not in grosse but by degrees saying first That amongst diuers prerogatiues attributed to the Pope in temporalibus in temporalties this is one which cannot be well denied by any viz. that the Pope is truely lord of all the temporalties belonging to the Bishopricke of Rome Within the compasse whereof there are some who haue included England and Ireland and one especially whose memorie this Examinate doth greatly honour but yet he must needes acknowledge his ouersight in that point Thus hee writeth Without the approbation of the See Apostolicke none can be lawfull King or Queene Admonit to the Nobilitie by Card. Allen 1588. pag. 8. of England by reason of the ancient accord made betweene Alexander the third the yeere 1171. and Henry the second then King when he was absolued for the death of Saint Thomas of Canterbury that no man might lawfully take that Crowne nor bee accounted as King till hee were confirmed by the Soueraigne Pastor of our soules which for the time should be this accord afterwards being renewed about the yeere 1210 by king Iohn who confirmed the same by oath to Pandulphus the Popes Legate at the special request and procurement of the Lords and Commons as a thing most

be conteined within the bounds of any order for the aduancing of spirituall matters but doeth rather breake forth to the suppressing of all which hath beene hitherto well setled in things spirituall 12. Now vpon these said grounds and some others needlesse then to haue bene sent to Rome he this Examinate saith that he doubteth not but that all Catholickes in England might and may still take the said oath of Allegeance there being no one clause in it which by the doctrine and exceptions here aboue mentioned may not well and truely be iustified Besides this Examinate saith hee did then chiefly stand vpon the grounds mentioned because they were most perspicuous and apparant euen to the simplest sort of Catholicks and were likely to find some good acceptation at Rome the same being in euery branch of them agreeable to the doctrine in this behalfe there allowed and maintained 13 Of the insufficiencie of this answere it was told him he should afterwards heare more In the meane time it being demanded of this Examinate why he himselfe at the time that he tooke the said oath did seeme to relie vpon his Maiesties speeches deliuered in Parliament 19. of May 1603 whereas he had before taught the Romish Catholicks and sent his reasons to Rome to that end to prooue it to be lawfull for them to take that oath without any such reference to his Maiesties speaches he answering saith 1. that before hee euer resolued any Catholicke of the lawfulnesse of that oath he had heard of his Maiesties sayd speaches though he did not alledge and specifie them to any before he came himselfe to take that oath 2. that at his owne taking of the oath he did in part relye vpon them and so professed because he supposed that thereby he should stay some mens ouer hastie and precipitate conceits of his taking that oath and suspend their opinions of his meaning therein foreseeing what great opposition was like to be made against him as he touched in his sixth Examination already in print for yeelding thereunto especially after the diuulging of the Popes first Breue and some other letters aduising all Catholicks to the contrary 3. that being in prison he thought it his best course if he could both to satisfie the State and to content the Catholicks which made him to take hold of any fit occasion that might auaile him to that end doing nothing therein against the trueth though he concealed by that meanes some part of it which now hee perceiueth will bee drawen from him to some mens dislike he feareth but as he hopeth to Gods glory the discharge of his conscience and the good of all graue and moderate Catholicks 14. Here vpon occasion because this Examinate found that it was ascribed vnto him as a fault in that he being a prisoner should write to a man of Cardinall Bellarmines ranke without notice first giuen thereof to the State he was very earnest before any more questions were demanded of him that he might haue license to deliuer his mind in that behalfe Which being yeelded vnto he sayth that being charged by the Cardinall to haue in a sort denied the Popes Supremacy in that he tooke the oath of Allegeance and hauing certaine places vrged against him to that purpose out of Leo and Saint Gregorie forasmuch as he this Examinate perceiueth thereby that the said Cardinall did not distinguish betwixt the oath of the Kings Supremacy so termed made 1. Eliz. and the oath of Allegeanee set out 3. of his Maiestie the first being ordeined for the abolishing altogether of the authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall out of this Realme and the second without any relation at all to the former onely seeking to preuent certaine inferences therein mentioned which were supposed might ensue by vertue of an Excommunication and did tend to the great hazard and endangering of his Maiesties person as it is supposed and to the misleading and ouerthrow of many of his Subiects hee this Examinate thought himselfe bound in conscience to write an answere to the said Cardinall as well for the clearing of himselfe in that point he being readie if he had twentie liues to yeeld them all in defence of the Popes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall as also for the satisfaction of so great a person for whose hard opinion of him he would be right sorie And therefore touching his fact herein if it be thought amisse of he humbly craueth pardon 15. Now as concerning the insufficiencie of this Examinates answere touching his reasons sent to Rome for the lawfulnesse of taking the oath of Allegeance consisting of the Popes humane intelligence subiect to errour Syluesters resolutions how no such course as is pretended in the oath of Allegeance could bee vndertaken against his Maiestie by the Pope the present state of England considered because the same should tend not to edification but to destruction it was told this Examinate that all these points so well by him enlarged did come farre short of the meaning of the said oath because it is very vncertaine what the Romish Catholickes in England would doe if the Pope should de facto proceede with his Maiestie as some of his predecessours did with the late Queene of worthy memorie which vncertaintie the State may not endure For although the wiser and more prouident sort of Romish Catholickes might in that case for a time draw backe yet what the seduced multitude were like enough to doe if they were able that is to be foreseene and prouided for Besides it may well be doubted what the said tempotizers would doe if a fit opportunitie ferued them Moreouer of what force this conceite was to restraine the late most horrible Traitours Catesby Garnet and the rest from their most barbarous and sauage designements it is apparant It is the trueth without colour that must either direct mens consciences or else it is but daubing with vntempered morter nothing but mischiefe is to bee expected from them Howbeit suppose the best of this deuise and euasion If the Pope well assisted did account and determine any extremitie to be vndertaken against his Maiestie to be in ordine ad spiritualia it is more then probable that his word and iudgement would bee rather accepted of by the greater number then that priuate mens exceptions and limitations would at such a time be able to preuaile or be of any moment For the preuenting of all which kind of mischiefes it is most apparant that amongst other respects for the preseruation of his Maiestie and the State the said oath vpon the said most barbarous occasion that euer was giuen to any King either heathen or Christian was ordeined 16 And therefore this Examinat being here required that for the better contentment of the State in whose hands hee is and for the trueth sake wherewith God is honoured he should open his minde simply and plainely why in writing to the Cardinall he telleth him that he tooke the oath in this sense Summum Pontificem

first three hundred yeres after Christ likewise his vtter dislike of sundry assertions propounded vnto him Sect. 49 some whereof maintaine contrary to Tertullians relation how Christians stood then affected that in those dayes armes might lawfully haue beene borne against the Emperours if the professors of the Name of Christ had beene able and some as touching sundry other vnsound and vncatholike matters in them contained concerning the losse of Kingdomes c. vpon excommunications Sect. 39 and also his opinion of the time when the deposing of Kings and absoluing their subiects from their alleageance were first made adiuncts to excommunication for ought he hath read Sect. 52. But yet he is contented as he saith a little further to enlarge himselfe according to the motion propounded and to that end affirmeth that hee doeth concurre in iudgement with these authors following and so out of his pocket-notes set downe their words in this maner 60 Apostoli nihil vi gerebant tantùm vtebantur gladio spiritus neminem agebant in exilium nullius inuadebant facultates Haec omnie Erasmus non minùs disertè quàm verè That is The Apostles did nothing by force they onely vsed the sword of the spirit they draue no man into exile they entered vpon no mans possessions All this saith Erasmus no lesse elegantly then truely Costerus in fidei demonstrat pag. 96. Si aliqui Reges cum populo se tradiderunt Romanis Pontificibus vt traditur de Anglis nihil ad nos Non tamen opinor quòd Angli vllo modo permitterent Pontificem destituere suum Regem alium constituere nunquam enim aliquem Romanorum Pontificum hoc facere permiserunt That is If any Kings with their people haue subiected themselues to the Bishoppes of Rome as it is reported of the English but vntruely as this Examinate hath before shewed that toucheth not vs. And yet I doe not thinke that the English would by any meanes permit the Pope to depose their King and constitute another for they neuer suffered any of the Bishops of Rome so to doe Iohan. Maior in 4. Sentent distinct 24. quaest 3. De ratione potestatis laicae est poenam ciuilem posse infligere vt sunt mors exilium bonorum priuatio c. sed nullam talem poenam ex institutione diuiná infligere potest Ecclesiastica potestas imò nec incarcerare vt plaerisque doctoribus placet sed ad solam poenam spiritualem extenditur vtpotè excommunicationem Reliquae autem poenae quibus vtitur ex iure purè positiuo sunt That is It is of the nature of lay power to bee able to inflict ciuill punishments as are death exile losse of goods c. but the Ecclesiasticall power cannot by the diuine ordinance impose any such punishment nay not imprison as the most Doctors doe hold but is extended to spirituall punishment alone as Excommunication The other punishments which it vseth are meerely out of positiue Law Iacobus Almain de Dominio naturali ciuili in vltima editione Gersonis pag. 696. 61. Here this Examinat being tolde that although he hath to some good purpose repeated what he had formerly said and a litle more enlarged himselfe then before in that hee hath acknowledged that what the Pope can doe more then Excommunicate he hath it ex iure purè positiuo meerely by positiue Law yet considering that he made no scruple to shew his dislike of the opiniō touching the Popes pretended authoritie in temporalibus directly in the 20. Sect but seemed loath to deliuer his iudgement concerning the other opinion of the Popes authoritie in Temporalibus in ordine ad Spiritualia indirectly in order to things spiritual it was further vrged against him that if he be indeed of Bellarmines minde in the points by him cited out of his booke it seemeth to be impossible that he this Examinat being a graue and learned man should thinke that that which Bellarmine hath said vpon very weake and simple grounds God knoweth for proofe of the Popes indirect authority in ordine ad Spiritualia is of sufficient force and moment to ouerthrow all that hee hath written before in his second third fourth and fifth Chapters of his said booke one of them being countenanced for offending too much with the word directè his arguments being in effect simple and absolute because it is most apparant to euery man that will not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe that hee the said Bellarmine hath giuen the Pope such a blow and deadly wound by many his so sound and substantiall arguments against his pretended direct authority as all the courses how indirect soeuer that can be deuised by the finest wits will neuer bee able to salue and cure it And therefore this Examinate was required very strictly herein to expresse himselfe more clearely 62 Whereupon this Examinate saith that he must indeed needs confesse and acknowledge that he hath wished with all his heart that either Cardinall Bellarmine had not intermedled with that question of the Popes authoritie in temporalibus indirectly or els that hee had bene able if it haue any trueth in it to haue handled it more pithily and throughly that the weakenes of his arguments for that point compared with the positions set downe by this Examinat out of his said booke as is aforesaid hath beene an especiall cause as he thinketh why many of later times doe so earnestly labour to refell them as foreseeing that if the Popes authority in temporalibus to depose Kings c. should stand vpon this point viz. that he had it but indirectly the same would be subiect to great hazard considering the oppositions in these dayes to the Church of Rome and that therefore insomuch as the thing it selfe viz. whether the Pope hath any authoritie at all to eradicate and depose Emperours and Kings for any cause which is aimed at on both sides aswell by them who affirme that he hath such an authoritie directly as by those who say hee hath it not directly but indirectly is notwithstanding left as yet vndetermined by the Church hee this Examinate desireth that hee may not bee further vrged to interpose his opinion otherwise then he hath done already in matters of so great moment and difficultie 63 This onely as appertaining hereunto he saith that he is much grieued to see the Popes Supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall so much entangled with these pretences of another supreme authority in temporalibus to be held directly and immediatly of Christ or indirectly per accidens and by a certaine consequence as if otherwise Christ should not haue sufficiently prouided for the necessitie of the Church nor furnished the Pope with abilitie to discharge his duetie considering that without these deuises so much insisted vpon though with very great vncertaintie to the great in dangering of the Popes vniuersall charge ouer all Churches in Spiritualibus Saint Peter and his successors did sufficiently prouide for the necessitie of the Church when the

wordes might seeme to import as much as the Earle desired whereas in deede the authoritie which this authour saith both parts are agreed vpon is not yet determined For Cardinall Bellarmine and his Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 5. cap. 4. side are fully resolued that the Pope hath no such authoritie directly and that consequently he must either haue it indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia or not at all and è contra the authours who oppose themselues to that opinion are as confident that he hath no authoritie in temporalibus except hee haue it directly so as how can it be said they are Carer de authorit Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 5. 8. agreed when both sides are so peremptorie that he hath no such authoritie at all except he haue it saith the one side directly saith the other side indirectly And for his further answere hereunto he referreth himselfe to that which before hee hath set downe in the 63 68 69 76 88 90 and 91 Sections 98 As it was obserued in the 42. Section that all princes for denying the Popes supremacie though otherwise they professe the Gospell are tearmed heretickes by the Romish Catholickes so although they liue neuer so orderly according to their lawes without inflicting any other punishments vpon offenders then are agreed vpon by the Common-wealth they are accounted tyrants if for the repressing of Popish errours they doe at some times giue way to the execution of such Lawes as are made against them And none are more violent herein then such as were borne and bred vp amongst vs in England as Stapleton and William Raynolds if they were the authors of the two bookes intituled De iusta abdicatione Henric 3. and De iusta Reipuh Christianae in Reges impios haereticos authoritate who affirme that all power at this day which is auerse from religion De iusta abdic pag. 11. Rossaeus pag. 106. meaning the Romish religion is tyrannie and that they are tyrants that doe vse their kingly power to the imposing vpon their Subiects of that faith which they terme hereticall and for example of such tyrants one of them alledgeth K. Henry the 8. Edward the 6. and Queene Elizabeth The consequences of which assertions are as Idem pag. 157. well in their opinions as in the opinion of many other that are of that sect that euery such tyrant may be depriued of his kingdome and if neede be murthered by his Subiects yea by euery priuate man if hee haue fit opportunitie after that he is declared by the Common-wealth as some say to be a tyrant or by the Pope as others affirme Whereby all kings and princes that mislike the Popes tyrannie and sundrie his corruptions are by him and his priests infinitely dishonoured and no one way more then by inciting their subiects to rebellion vnder pretence of religion which ought to be the surest band of duety and obedience In consideration whereof it being told this Examinate that it was all one to his Maiestie whether by the Popes doctrine hee were to be deposed from his Crowne vnder either of these false pretences that he is an hereticke or that he is a tyrant and that thereby his Subiects are no longer to obey him but may beare armes against him and offer violence vnto his sacred person as well in the one case as in the other and that therefore it stood him in hand seeing he professeth himselfe to be a true subiect to deliuer himselfe from these traiterous conceits he the said Examinate answered as followeth saying 99 That in his iudgement if it be true as this Examinat beleeueth it is that the Pope hath no authoritie by any Sentence whatsoeuer to depose a King for heresie as before he hath at large declared nor to absolue his subiects from their Allegeance it is also as true a fortiori that hee hath no authoritie by any Sentence or iudgment whatsoeuer so to determine any king to be a tyrant as that thereby his right to his kingdome should in any sort be empeached or his subiects set at liberty to rebell against him or to offer any hurt vnto his person 100 That he knoweth what diuers haue written as touching tyrants wherewith hee saith it is impertinent for him now to intermeddle affirming notwithstanding that in his iudgement no king who in the course of his gouernement doth obserue the lawes established in his kingdome and doth not otherwise afflict his subiects either by violence rapine crueltie impositions exactions or by any other vnlawfull meanes but as he is bound giueth way to the execution of his lawes and onely vseth the ancient prerogatiue of his Crowne can in any true construction be rightly iudged a tyrant though some of his said lawes doe tend to the punishment of Catholickes and to the maintenance of the religion which he professeth diuers Emperours being in their times notable gouernours and promoters of their Empire to the great good of their subiects in temporall causes though otherwise they were great enemies to Christianitie 101 That no King who commeth to his Crowne by succession as being the right heire thereof may lawfully vnder any pretence of tyrannie bee deposed or resisted by his subiects either iointly assembled together or otherwise by any secret machinations or treacheries of manie few or of any one and that as touching this point either of iudging a king to be a tyrant or dealing with him thereupon as is before mentioned he is altogether of Master Blackwood his opinion who writing against sundry traiterous positions of Buchanans tending to the effect before obiected doth proue very sufficiently these points that ensue viz 102 That no subiects can arrogate to themselues Blackuodaei Apolog pro Regibus pag. 56. any part of Regall authority without committing of treason except the same bee delegated vnto them by the King and that then also they are to vse the same authority no otherwise then in such sort and so long as the King doeth willingly permit them That our Kings here in this land are no way obliged Pag. 106. to the people for their kingdome but haue all their power and Empire from God and are onely bound to giue an account to him of the discharge of their office and duetie their kingdomes belonging to them iure haereditario by right of inheritance so as no sooner Pag. 178. is one King dead but the next heire is actually king no ceremonie or Coronation or other circumstances adding more to his right then hee had before That the Oath itselfe which they take at their Coronation being made to God and not to the people doeth not Pag. 221. any way empeach the interest they haue iure sanguinis Pag. 224. by their birth 103 That forasmuch as the kings subiects his Pag. 211. c. Clergie Nobles and Commons cannot assemble together in Parliament without the kings Writte vnder paine of treason by the olde lawes nor when they are

vniuersall Iurisdiction commit the same vnto the Emperour That the Bishop of Rome is the highest father Idem pag. 152. and man of the world and the vniuersall Vicar and Lord of the world and that all others doe depend vpon him as their builder and that otherwise if one should place the Emperour by himselfe in respect of his temporalties he should grant two beginnings which were heresie That the Empire of Rome before it was Idem pag. 161. conuerted to Christ was a Dominion vsurped and tyrannicall because the true dominion was in the line of Christ That the Emperour is the Popes minister for Idem ibidem God did appoint him tanquam summi sacerdotis ministrum to be as a minister of the highest Priest That the Imperiall power doth depend vpon God by the Idem pag. 162. 163. interposition of his Vicar to make it complete and formall and that the Emperour ought so to receiue it That no King or Emperour hath Iurisdiction or dominion Idem pag. 172. but from Christ and by consequence can haue none at all but from his Vicar 32 That in the highest Bishop both the powers and ●●ls Mancinus lib. 3. cap. 1. Carer pag. 133. Iurisdictions are spirituall and temporall and that as he is the most eminent person of all men in spirituall power so is he in temporall so that it may lawfully bee affirmed of Christs Vicar by a certaine similitude that Plato in Timaeus said of God asking in Timaeus what was God he answereth he is not a man nor heauen nor good but something better if one aske whether the highest Bishop be a Duke a king an Emperor or a Prince he shall answere warily if by denying hee affirme the Pope to be quid praestantius quidue eminentius some thing more excellent and more eminent That the Bishop of Rome is called Papa of Papae an Isidor Moscon pag. 22. interiection of admiration because his dignitie and power is admirable to all men and is as it were the amazement of the world according to the glosse in the proeme of the Clementines where it is read in these words Papa stupor mundi non Deus non homo sed vtrumque the Pope is the wonderment of the world not God nor man but both That the Pope Ibidem doeth execute ordinarily his iurisdiction temporall in S. Peters patrimonie but casually in all kingdomes That the holy historiographer in the old lawe made the Idem pag 63. priesthood an adiectiue to the kingdome but S. Peter made the kingdom an adiectiue to the priesthood That if we will follow the phrase of Scriptures and attend the Greeke copie and that tongue it must needs be confessed Idem pag. 66. that our Sauiour Iesus in those words Feede Feede Feede my sheepe did ordeine his vicar and committed vnto him temporall and spirituall power That all temporall Iurisdict on must be exercised not Idem pag 80. at the Popes commandement but at his becke Princes will charge command God who is lord of all doeth by his becke command according to that saying Dixcrat nutu totum tremefecit Olympum And that Christ had ful Iurisdiction ouer all the world Idem pag. 85. and all creatures and therefore the Pope his vicar hath so 33 With the offring of these speeches to this Examinates consideration he was much offended saying that now he perceiueth it is more sought to bring him into hatred then to make proofe of his true Allegeance because these things are onely produced in scorne of his Hol. as he conceiueth in defence of whose Supremacie in spirituall causes he is readie to yeeld his life and therefore answered plainely that he thought himselfe very hardly dealt with in this point But reply being made that his said offence taken and discontentment thereupon vttered seemed very strange how it was come to passe with him that those things which are published to the world by so many and with so great an approbation in Rome to no other end but that all the world should take notice of them so much disquiet and trouble him by the very repetition of them 34 Wherunto this Examinate saith that the repeating of the said speaches doeth not so much moue him as the drift whereat they aime For if that which is sufficient might giue contentment these speaches produced out of the authors by him cited agreeing in effect with that which he himselfe had alledged out of them he did before declare his opinion of them when hee termed them the long-since disliked and impugned assertions of the Canonists and more he saith by the offering of them to his consideration cannot well be required of him it being no way apperteining any more vnto him to censure the flatterers of the Pope then of Kings and Princes who to please them doe oftentimes no doubt say more then is true Whereupon he addeth that whatsoeuer he did cite out of the said authors he did it with much griefe and would not so farre haue enlarged himselfe therein had he not conceiued that his Maiestie had an especiall respect vnto this opinion of the Popes direct authoritie in temporalibus so highly aduanced aboue all kings and Emperours when hee vsed in Parliament these wordes in effect viz. that by the doctrine of the Popes supremacie he the said Pope doth not onely claime to be spirituall head of all Christians but also to haue an Imperiall Ciuill power ouer all Kings and Emperours dethroning and decrowning princes with his foote as pleaseth him and dispensing and disposing of all kingdomes and Empires at his appetite and that another point which they meaning the Catholicks obserue in continuall practise is the assassinates and murthers of kings thinking it no sinne but rather a matter of saluation to doe all actions of rebellion and hostilitie against their naturall Soueraigne Lord if he be once cursed his subiects discharged of their fidelitie and his kingdome giuen a praye to their three crowned Monarch Through the which his Maiesties speach this Examinate did verily think that the oath of Allegeance was ordeined to meete with such mischiefes as the Parliament supposed according to his Maiesties said words to be dangerous consequences of this forenamed opinion which hee this Examinate signified when hee tooke that oath and mentioned as is aforesaid in his letter to the Cardinall Wherein he seeth not as he saith what iust offence can be taken in that he told the Cardinall how he had sworne that the Bishop of Rome had no Imperiall and Ciuil power to depose at his pleasure the kings Maiestie For as he then sware so he doth now constantly affirme that he holdeth the opinion before spoken of concerning the Popes direct Dominion and supreme authoritie ouer all the world in temperalibus to be vntrue notwithstanding the peremptory resolution and vehemency shewed by the authors of it affirming but falsely that it is the more common opinion of Diuines to be

the king doth acknowledge no superious in temporall causes hee might lawfully in that matter without any mans preiudice submit himselfe to our iurisdiction wherein as some hold he might by his owne authority not as a father with his children but as a prince with his subiects haue himselfe dispensed but you are knowen to be subiect vnto others and therefore without some iniury peraduenture vnto them except they should yeeld their assent you cannot in this case submit your selfe vnto vs And this is that casuall authoritie this Examinate saith which he attributeth to the Pope out of S. Peters patrimony in other Princes kingdomes for his dealing in those causes that are temporall and doe not otherwise belong vnto him to intermedle with as he is Christs Vicar but as they are compromitted and referred vnto him 114 It was here againe required of this Examinate that he should a little further open his mind in this point whether in his iudgement the subjects of any Christian king may lawfully referre any temporall causes especially such as either concerne the commonwealth or their king vnto the Popes determination without the kings consent because it is held by many as it hath been formerly touched in part out of Mancinus that they may when otherwise they can receiue no such ordinary course of Iustice as they thinke they ought or when they account it most expedient for the Commonwealth To which purpose sundry examples are alledged and amongst them this particularly of the proceeding once in France with their king Hildericus king of France reigning as it was thought vnprofitably and Pepinus in his gouernement vnder him greatly contenting the Realme the chiefe of the Nobilitie in their desire to remoue him and aduance Pepinus vnto his place being not ignorant that if they could procure the Pope who was then in these Westerne parts of great reputation to concurre therein with them it would greatly surther their designement and the better content both the people and the Clergie did send an Embassage 1● Maior disi 24. quaest 2. 〈…〉 to Pope Zachary then Bishop of Rome desiring to know of him an ille deberet regnare qui otio torpebat an ille qui aestum dieiportabat whether he ought to reigne who was altogether idle or he that did indure the heate of the day To whom the Pope answered quòd posterior regnare deberet that the later ought to reigne Whereupon the Nobilitie deposed Hilderick and created Pepinus their king 115 Now forasmuch as this example is commonly vsed for an argument that the Pope may thus deale casually in temporalibus and that thereupon it is ordinarily concluded that the Pope by such a casualty may depose kings and set vp others in their roomes if hee this Examinate should meane that such a reference or compromitting of a cause to the Pope by one side without the assent of the other as it is not likely that Hildericus was euer willing to commit to the Pope his title to the kingdom whether he should remaine king or one of his subiects should get it from him were a lawfull occasion offered for the Pope to deale casually in temporalibus as an Arbitrator that which hee hath before said of his meaning how the Pope might deale in such like causes casualiter doeth crosse that which formerly he hath deliuered or rather indeed is flatly repugnant vnto it And therefore he this Examinate was vrged to explicate this difficulty 116 Whereunto for answere he saith That in his opinion this was a needelesse doubt in that his words before were plaine when he deliuered the answere of Innocentius to the Gentleman of Montpeliar hee this Examinate hauing neuer heard of such a kind of compromitting a cause to any by one part without the consent of the other and that therefore he holdeth it as vnlawfull for the Pope in such a kind of reference as aboue is specified without the Kings consent to take any temporall cause into his hands to be ordered by him as it was for him to haue made legitimate the children of the said gentleman as is before mentioned which Innocentius acknowledged he might not doe And as touching the example alledged for the deposing of Hildericus this Examinate further saith that he concurreth in iudgement with Iohannes de Parisijs Io. Maior Iacobus Almain Adam Blackwood with diuers others Blackwood apol pag. 201. 202. who writing of that fact say that it was not lawfull that the Pope did yeeld to an iniury and was not ignorant the example to be pernicious so to let slacke the raines to the people for the changing of Scepters and to preferre a stranger with the iniury of their own lawfull king that this fact being singular ought to obtaine no force of a law that wee are to liue by lawes and not by examples that we ought not so much to regard what is done as what ought to be done 117 That the Nobility of France sent to the Pope because the Vniuersitie of Paris did not then Ioh. Maior in lib. 4. sent dist 24. apud Gersonem flourish insinuating that if it had they had gone no further but relied vpon their iudgement that where it is said that Zacharie did depose Hildericke it is thus to be vnderstood viz that he was aliqua causa motiua a certaine mouing cause why the Noblemen of France deposed him that from such particulars quae ex deuotion ad Ecclesiam non debito juris fiunt which are done of deuotion to the Church and not by any right of law nothing is to be drawen in consequence as neither from many other examples where Emperours did chuse the Bishops of Rome and likewise that some Bishops of Rome had beene deposed by Emperors and as the Ecclesiasticall historie reciteth many Bishops did referre their complaints to Constantine ex quibus nullum potest sumi argumentum from which examples no argument can be drawen 118 That the Canon Alius dist 15. q. 6. which Iacobus Almain de potest Eccles laicâ quaest 2. cap. 8. Magna glossa Canon Alius dist 15. q. 6. saith that Pope Zacharie deposed the king of France and placed Pepin the father of Charles in his roome is thus to bee vnderstood Zacharias deposuit Regem id est deponentibus consensit Zacharie deposed the king that is gaue his consent to them that deposed him that then there was no Vniuersity at Paris the same beeing afterwardes erected in the dayes of Charles the great and that thereupon there being few learned men in France they had recourse to the Pope sic deposuit id est consensit vti possent deponere sic non deposuit authoritatiuè that so he deposed Hildericke that is he gaue his consent that the Nobilitie of France might depose him and that the Pope did not depose him by any authority 119 That the Pope did neuer depose the king of Ioh. de Parisiis de potest regia

Papali cap. 13. France except that which Zacharie did in the deposition of Hildericus may bee expounded deposuit id est deponentibus consensit sicut exponit glossa Zacharie deposed the King that is hee gaue his consent to those that did depose him as the glosse doth expound it that from such singular facts of deuotion to the Church or to the person or of fauour or for some other cause and not in right of law arguments may not bee made that whereas it is read in histories that Boniface obtained of Phocas the Emperour that the Church of Rome should be the head of all Churches because the Church of Constantinople did write herselfe so it might bee collected by such a like argument that it appertained to the Emperour to transferre the primacie of one Church to another as likewise whereas Isidore saith that Constantine the Emperour did decree that the See of Rome should hold the principalitie ouer the foure chiefe Sees Antioch Alexandria Constantinople and Hierusalem God forbid that thereupon we should say that the Church of Rome hath her Primacy ouer Churches and the disposition of them from Emperours So as this Examinate saith that which was done as touching the deposition of Hildericke the king of France doth no way alter his opinion before shewed touching the Popes authoritie in temporalibus casualiter when they are lawfully referred vnto him as in the Sect. 113. he hath specified 120 Here this Examinate was put in minde of certaine wordes of his in the said 113. Section where saying that the Pope as hee is Christs vicar could not otherwise deale in temporalibus casualiter then as here he hath said he seemeth to insinuate that in some other respect hee might deale in temporall causes with Kings for the deposing of them and proceeding with their subiects as hath bene before diuers times mentioned And the rather it so seemeth in that he hauing before cited out of Mancinus how the Pope hath authoritie to proclaime warre and so become a man at armes did let that point passe him without answere vnto it 121 For satisfaction whereof this Examinate saith that in his iudgement it is as lawfull for the Pope to make warre within his own Territories which he holdeth as a Temporall Prince when he is driuen thereunto through the disobedience of his subiects or in their defence against other Princes as it is for any King or ciuill State so to doe vpon such or the like occasions and that Iacobus Gretzerus saith well if this Examinate doth rightly vnderstand him to this purpose and to the iustification of all in effect which this Examinate hath set downe throughout the whole course of this his Examination touching his deniall of the Popes authoritie either directly as he is Pope or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia as he is Summus Princeps spiritualis the Supreme spirituall Prince to depose Kings and release their subiects from the oathes of their allegeance c. where he writeth in this sort Cogit Pontifex Romanus poenis externis spiritualibus vt Excommunicatione Gretzerus defens controuers Bellar. colum 1404. item poenis externis temporalibus corporalibus quà ipse est Princeps politicus quà Principum politicorum opem implorare potest vt haereticorum petulantiam licentiam poenis temporalibus compescant that is That the Bishop of Rome hath authoritie to compell men by outward spirituall punishments as by Excommunication and also by outward temporal and corporal punishments as he is himselfe a ciuill Prince and as he may implore the assistance of other ciuill Princes that they may represse by temporall punishments the wantonnesse and liberty of heretikes 122 And this Examinate also further saieth that for ought he can Iudge whereas some exceptions were taken to the Popes sending of certaine small forces into Ireland about the yeere 1580. to assist the Earle of Desmond Cardinall Allen in answere of them doth politically iustifie that his fact where hee writeth in this manner The chiefe Bishops of Christs Church our supreme Pastors in earth by Gods prouidence and by the graunts of Card. Allens answere to the English Iustice pag. 144. our first most Christian Emperours and Kings and by the humble and zealous deuotion of the faithfull Princes and people afterwards haue their temporall states dominions and patrimonies whereby they most iustly holde and possesse the same and are thereby lawfull Princes temporall and may most rightfully by their Soueraigntie make warres in their owne and other mens iust quarrell as occasion shall vrge them there vnto 123 By reason of diuers particulars deliuered by this Examinate in this his answere to the last doubt propounded vnto him it was first demanded of him whether in his iudgement the Pope hath authority to command any king being held for a Catholicke to take armes against any his neighbour kings deemed by him for heretickes for the suppressing of them by temporall coertions when the Pope shall iudge it fit because it might seeme very strange for any man to conceiue that Christ euer gaue to S. Peter any iurisdiction authoritie or power in fauour of religion to set kings together by the eares It might haue some probabilitie that if a king who disalloweth of the Popes supremacie and of many other corrupt points of popish doctrine should send his forces into any other temporall princes dominions to make warres of purpose to abolish the Popes authoritie and plant there the reformed religion by him professed then in this case the Pope might sollicite some other kings adioyning to oppose them selues make warres against him But to imagine that when a King proceedeth no further then to order matters in his owne kingdome by the aduise of the States thereof both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall as it shal be iudged by him and them most expedient any Bishop or Spirituall person whosoeuer may take vpon him to proclaime or excite warre and thrust other kings to assaile him by force in his owne kingdome and countrey euery such conceit wanteth authoritie in the new Testament and hath no example for many yeeres in the purest and best times of the Church and besides it is repugnant to that which this Examinate hath before deliuered For kingdomes being neither founded vpon faith nor grace how can they be shaken vnder pretence that either of them is impugned Christianitie may well be thought to binde a king who reckoneth himselfe subiect to the Bishop of Rome in spirituall causes in them to submit him selfe vnto him but to command him to make warre and thereby hazard peraduenture his owne kingdome or spend the blood either of his owne Subiects or of the subiects of any other Christian King when the Pope thinketh good is a very bloodie and an vnchristian opinion 124 Vnto this question and the parts thereof this Examinate saith that he beleeueth that all Christian Kings and Princes are bound to doe what they can for the maintenance of the Catholicke faith